The true culprits are dual cannons and their heavy brethren.
"Increased damage due to narrow firing arc" would b an argument if the weapons were fit on ships that didn't have the LUDICROUS turnrate that STO's escorts have.
This is the major point. Noone ever complained about breen crusiers, kdf cruisers or the Galaxy dreadnought or the jhemmy dread even though they can use dual heavys.
It is because they can be outmaneuvered. Together with the fact thy do not have maneuver superiority to just run away at will and flat out speed tank the narrow firing arc principle works.
If you are front of a dual cannon dread or cruisers, pain is gonna rain in as it should since its such a narrow arc weapon.
Now escorts, they do have maneuver supremacy and on top of that have long since ceased to be "glass cannons".
Add into that the whole "beams ruin their own damage due to cryptics fcked up power system" and you'd be getting to the core of things...
Well the D'deridex got shafted by one single detail. It's a cruiser. And guess what? The only cruisers in this game worth a damn are KDF battlecruisers. Fed cruisers for the most part are difficult to get large amounts of damage out of. It's possible, but painfully expensive. And I think it's safe to assume the D'deridex will have that same problem.
Since the KDF has BoPs, the battlecruisers are also pretty much a waste.
Well a lot of that has to do with fans that watched the shows and saw the escorts doing all the major damage and blowing stuff up while the cruisers lost power or were messing with their dilithium crystals. Fans like to make boom and that's the escorts job. Cruisers just take the agro until the escorts pull it away from them.
Several times they showed cruisers being overwhelmed by jem hadar attack ships, but if I'm not mistaken, jem hadar weapons also originally basically went straight through federation shields until they were adapted. Ah yes, from memory alpha:
"Jem'Hadar fighters were relatively easy for a large starship to destroy. A few solid phaser or photon torpedo hits were enough to cripple or destroy one, therefore, they usually operated in groups of two or three during routine operations, and in much larger swarms in large battles so that the loss of one or two would not make much difference."
"Armaments of this type employed by this class varied from disruptors to phased polaron beam weapons. During initial encounters with the Federation, these phased polaron beams were capable of penetrating the shields of Federation starships."
"Outside of conventional weapon use, these ships were also used in performing kamikaze attacks on enemy vessels, which allowed them to inflict more damage than their weapons alone could perform."
I think one of the big problems in the game is that the devs have been balancing the game around the concept that a small ship like a bop should be comparable to a massive cruiser, which is ludicrous. They could very easily correct this by making bop/jem attack ship pilots fly a "flight" or "swarm" of ships rather than just one. If a bop pilot came in with three bops, the other two commanded as pets/and or flown in formation and the total damage added up to what a single bop can currently do, that would be more acceptable.
That or balance the game the way it should be which is: Cruisers do the most damage and can take the most damage, but they can't avoid damage because they are too slow, this also prevents them from maneuvering themselves to take advantage of enemy weaknesses. Escorts do high damage (not as much as cruisers) but can't take much damage either, but their high combat speed and maneuverability allows them to avoid a great deal of damage and easily position themselves to take advantage of enemy weaknesses. Science vessels would fall somewhere in the middle with better maneuverability and speed than a cruiser, but not as much as an escort, they can avoid more damage than a crusier but less than an escort, but their shields can take more of a beating than an escort, but not as much as a cruiser. They would do the lowest damage through weapons alone, but not so much lower that it might as well not even be there, but their damage is supplemented by the damage of their science abilities and the crippling of their enemies by science abilities.
Well a lot of that has to do with fans that watched the shows and saw the escorts doing all the major damage and blowing stuff up while the cruisers lost power or were messing with their dilithium crystals. Fans like to make boom and that's the escorts job. Cruisers just take the agro until the escorts pull it away from them.
Except that the only escort in the show that got any decent amount of screen time was the Defiant. And it did great damage, did lots of boom boom.
But then again... so did the Sovereign in First Contact, Insurrection, and it did pretty well in a 1v1 vs the Scimitar in Nemesis. Oh, and let's not forget the little Intrepid-class, the USS Voyager. She took on and defeated the Undine, Hirogen, Kazon (those scrubs don't count, they aren't even worth me spelling properly), in addition to dozens of other ships and enemies.
And then you have the Galaxy. That ship was very... unpredictable. Sometimes the Enterprise-D did wonderfully, and other times it made you wonder if Picard really was deserving of being a Captain.
However, as you can see, the Defiant wasn't the only killer on screen. And it certainly wasn't the most efficient or most effective.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Don't worry, it looks like the fleet D'Deridex refit got universal lt. on tribble. The romulans are safe and the G-R remains the crappies ship in STO :P
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Don't worry, it looks like the fleet D'Deridex refit got universal lt. on tribble. The romulans are safe and the G-R remains the crappies ship in STO :P
Imagine the G-R layout, just change the eng lt. to universal lt. Something that G pilots pray for years. Good our prayers have been answered....on another ship. LOL.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Imagine the G-R layout, just change the eng lt. to universal lt. Something that G pilots pray for years. Good our prayers have been answered....on another ship. LOL.
So it is lt. tac, com. eng, lt. universal, lt. sci, ensign eng?
Don't worry, it looks like the fleet D'Deridex refit got universal lt. on tribble. The romulans are safe and the G-R remains the crappies ship in STO :P
Let's hope it stays like this cause this could actually be pretty good.
Would have liked a lt com tac like the Excelsior has so I can high yield or spread 3 but 2 potential lt tacs and an ens tac is decent enough firepower.
It saddens me that Cryptic is going to shaft the D'Deridex as it has done with the Galaxy.
You would think that with the massive amount of feedback they have gotten on the turn rate of the D'Deridex and the issue of beam weapon infectiveness, they would take this opportunity to not only "get it right" with the D'Deridex but also apply an overhaul to the Galaxy, Galaxy-X and other cruisers that need some help.
The company I work for has a motto: "Make the right thing happen."
It's apparent that Cryptic isn't interested in setting things right and applying balance to the ships in this game. Instead, it's all about Escort love. Heck, I've slowly been moving my characters out of Cruisers and into Escorts because frankly, I don't get the feeling of a "big battleship" from flying Cruisers, but rather the feeling of "big luxury cruiseliner". Sure, the cruiseliner might be as big as a battleship, but it has no teeth to it, so it's usefulness in battle is ZERO.
If the Mighty Mo (Iowa Class Battleships) had been as impotent as the Galaxy Class is, the United States would have lost the war in the Pacific in 1945.
And now, Cryptic is going to add yet another impotent cruiser to the game, completely ignoring anyone who actually plays in Cruisers.
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
I'm not sure I will even make a Romulan if the D'Deridex isn't given more tac consoles and at least a Lt Cmdr tac station. Makes no sense for a battlecloaker to be so heavy on eng consoles and stations, Romulans have no need for a ship like that. If there has to be one it shouldn't be the D'Deridex, make a new ship for an eng heavy warbird, or make an additional tactical fleet variant of the D'Deridex.
Ok I'm back to annyoed with this again. I saw some screen shots of the Romulan T5 fleet ships yesterday and the D'deridex only has 2 tac consoles to go with it's lt and en tac.
What got me though is that there's also a homegrown Cryptic design called the Ha'apax that has the same turn rate and exists in the same tier but has a lt commander tac and 4 tactical consoles. So that proves that they are willing to do it, make a useful Romulan cruiser that is.
I'm not sure how else to put this but the vast majority of people are not going to be leveling a Romulan in this game because they WANT to fly the Ha'apax design. Most of those that end up in it will be there because it's demonstrably better than the D'deridex in the current layout. So here's an idea.
Switch the layouts.
Look, now everyone is happy.
Those few people that want to try to make some kind of gimmick build out of a ship with 5 engineering consoles and 2 tactical will be able to do so, and the majority of people that grew up watching TNG and associate the Romulans with the D'Deridex will get to fly the ship they want to without being out damaged by the Ambassador next to them.
Easy.
Alternatively make a "B-Type" D'Deridex that is a tactical version of it just like there's a tactical and science Ha'apex. Then players will be able to choose if they want to overly invest in science or engineering, or if they want a ship that can actually be useful in current end game content.
PWE/Cryptic wouldn't be happy No, honestly, you cannot deny that the devs obviously don't want the iconic ships to be anything worthwhile in favour of their own designs. Anything in this game is streamlined towards the most "un-trek" way possible. Thin about it: Obviously "escorts" are the best ships, the "original" cryptic designs being the best of those and the gear you use mostly doesn't resemble anything ever featured in Star Trek
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Ok I'm back to annyoed with this again. I saw some screen shots of the Romulan T5 fleet ships yesterday and the D'deridex only has 2 tac consoles to go with it's lt and en tac.
What got me though is that there's also a homegrown Cryptic design called the Ha'apax that has the same turn rate and exists in the same tier but has a lt commander tac and 4 tactical consoles. So that proves that they are willing to do it, make a useful Romulan cruiser that is.
I'm not sure how else to put this but the vast majority of people are not going to be leveling a Romulan in this game because they WANT to fly the Ha'apax design. Most of those that end up in it will be there because it's demonstrably better than the D'deridex in the current layout. So here's an idea.
Switch the layouts.
Look, now everyone is happy.
Those few people that want to try to make some kind of gimmick build out of a ship with 5 engineering consoles and 2 tactical will be able to do so, and the majority of people that grew up watching TNG and associate the Romulans with the D'Deridex will get to fly the ship they want to without being out damaged by the Ambassador next to them.
Easy.
Alternatively make a "B-Type" D'Deridex that is a tactical version of it just like there's a tactical and science Ha'apex. Then players will be able to choose if they want to overly invest in science or engineering, or if they want a ship that can actually be useful in current end game content.
Excellent ideas, similar to ideas I posted earlier. A lot of us Romulan fans will make a Romulan to fly the D'D and will buy a tactical version of it in the fleet or z-store. It doesn't require much work, the model is already there, they just need to create a tactical version with 4 tac consoles and at least lt Cmdr tac.
Can't be too difficult to make a D'deridex that people WANT to fly.
3 Tac consoles, a decent turnrate and voila, there we go.
-> and if it is really all about selling something, then give the 3rd Tac console to the C-St'oridex only.
Personally; I would be happy with a big D that had heavy Tactical BOFF seating, at least 3 Tactical Consoles if not more and even a fairly 'eh turn rate. It was never shown to be fast at turning. It is HUGE in its size so that is fine. It is meant to drop out of cloak, blow away everything before it, and re-enter cloak and fly off.
It is a War ship designed by a species that LOVES the Hit-and-Run and Ambush style of attack not the Stand and Fight style like the Klingons. What would be really awesome would be a console setup more like the Bortasqu' tactical for the C-Store D'deridex. Also BOFF seating like that ship would make it pretty beastly with battle cloak.
But Cryptic, PLEASE, you are splashing the face of that War Bird on all your adds, it is the most Iconic Romulan ship out there, it is THE Face of Romulan power, do NOT make it suck so hard that flying it makes you feel guilty because you know it is just for looks and no substance.
(...)
But Cryptic, PLEASE, you are splashing the face of that War Bird on all your adds, it is the most Iconic Romulan ship out there, it is THE Face of Romulan power, do NOT make it suck so hard that flying it makes you feel guilty because you know it is just for looks and no substance.
Two words: Galaxy Class?
EDIT: And I don't mean that the Galaxy should be the best ship or the most capable, but it IS maybe the most iconic ship in the whole franchise. And it sucks in an embarassing way. And they did that for each and every one of the big cruisers, be it Fed, Klingon or now Romulan.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
It's not going to be the Romulan version of the excelsior.
And it can't turn more than 5 base.
Well thats why we are making threads like this trying to convince the devs to change the sorry state this ship is currently in. Do you have something to add to the discussion as to why or why not it shouldn't be changed or what changes you would like to see?
I don't see the point in making a battelcloaking ship unable to carry out ambushes due to lack of firepower myself. The bad turn can be handled with battlecloak and RCS, but it needs more tac consoles and Lt Cmdr Tac boff to make the battlecloak it gives up turn and power levels for to even be worht having
I do think that if anything its a content design issue. There is nothing wrong with cruisers in the abstract and the galaxy is the logical layout for a cruiser at the point in the game you get it. What people complain about are just the downsides of a cruiser. Cruiser upside is big hull and lots of crew to repair hull, good shields, reasonable DPS (between that of an escort and a science vessel). Downside is that it maneuvers poorly and the DPS is not top-notch.
In the abstract there is nothing at all wrong with ship design in the game. Escort Top DPS/Turn, worst shield output/crew, mid hull. Cruiser best hull/crew, mid DPS/shields, low turn. Science ship is Worst DPS/hull, best shields, mid turn/crew.
The problem lies in content design where most content favors high DPS and maneuverability. Create meaningful content that favors tanking ability and moderate DPS and cruisers become viable.
EDIT: And I don't mean that the Galaxy should be the best ship or the most capable, but it IS maybe the most iconic ship in the whole franchise. And it sucks in an embarassing way. And they did that for each and every one of the big cruisers, be it Fed, Klingon or now Romulan.
That is a sad truth... Exxxceeept... For the Klingons the Vor'Cha was one of their big standards for a long while and that one is actually quite viable. It is not the best but it is not too shabby and the Mirror one is really nice. The Negh'var is pretty strongly "eh" though... Not as bad as the others but close...
I do think that if anything its a content design issue. There is nothing wrong with cruisers in the abstract and the galaxy is the logical layout for a cruiser at the point in the game you get it. What people complain about are just the downsides of a cruiser. Cruiser upside is big hull and lots of crew to repair hull, good shields, reasonable DPS (between that of an escort and a science vessel). Downside is that it maneuvers poorly and the DPS is not top-notch.
In the abstract there is nothing at all wrong with ship design in the game. Escort Top DPS/Turn, worst shield output/crew, mid hull. Cruiser best hull/crew, mid DPS/shields, low turn. Science ship is Worst DPS/hull, best shields, mid turn/crew.
The problem lies in content design where most content favors high DPS and maneuverability. Create meaningful content that favors tanking ability and moderate DPS and cruisers become viable.
Keep in mind we are talking the Galaxy R or Fleet Galaxy NOT the lower level Galaxy here...
The Galaxy, and likely this ship if it stays as is, will be generating LESS DPS than most Science Vessels due to such heavy amounts of Engineering BOFFs and low Tactical Consoles. In the meantime that big hull and healing is somewhat irrelevant considering that Escorts can easily tank the most vicious enemies in the game and still thoroughly trounce your DPS. Also: Why would a D'deridex be concerned with having a big tank to begin with? It is a top-notch war ship for a species who's strategy tends to be only fighting when they have the advantage. Pop out of cloak, murder your victim, and re-cloak before they get a chance to even shoot back. That sort of ship does not need huge tank it needs huge guns.
Also Cryptic seems to have trouble with the idea of enemies that fight hard enough to make Tank useful without just OHKing everything regardless of its stats. It is all-or-nothing with them for some reason.
The D'deridex has lt tac, ensign tac, commander eng, ltcmd sci and lt universal.
AWESOME!
TRIBBLE your bloody tac console's!!!
I love that boff layout and what would ido with 5 tac consoles anway. there is so much CHEESE in console form i wanna put on this hunk that tac consoles are the least of my priorities....
What is important is the boff seating, and its GOOD.
I do think that if anything its a content design issue. There is nothing wrong with cruisers in the abstract and the galaxy is the logical layout for a cruiser at the point in the game you get it. What people complain about are just the downsides of a cruiser. Cruiser upside is big hull and lots of crew to repair hull, good shields, reasonable DPS (between that of an escort and a science vessel). Downside is that it maneuvers poorly and the DPS is not top-notch.
In the abstract there is nothing at all wrong with ship design in the game. Escort Top DPS/Turn, worst shield output/crew, mid hull. Cruiser best hull/crew, mid DPS/shields, low turn. Science ship is Worst DPS/hull, best shields, mid turn/crew.
The problem lies in content design where most content favors high DPS and maneuverability. Create meaningful content that favors tanking ability and moderate DPS and cruisers become viable.
While I do agree that the game basically is a casual lunch break shooter which screws everything but DPS dealers, I do heavily disagree that there is nothing wrong with how ships are handled.
But this is a more principal issue. Star Trek ships just don't work the way this game forces them to work. There are actually no "roles" for Starfleet vessels as each and every one of them is a multi-purpose ship (except two or three dedicated designs: Sovereign, Oberth and Olympic) which should be reflected in the game. As such, Federation ships should have more universal stations and more all-round console slots (though the "console" system is flawed in the first place). Especially the Galaxy class does not deserve to be just a tank - if any ship would deserve three basic refits (tac, eng, sci) it would be the galaxy and not that... thing... they did for STO.
What would work wuite well - without reworking the entire game, would be Galaxy refits for tac, sci or eng purposes. The fleet galaxy being the ENG variant while the d'deridex became what tac or sci galaxies should look like. The warbird, on the other hand, should not be a engineering heavy vessel by any means. It's a warship - Starfleet vessels aren't. The basc principle should be a tac heavy d'deridex with a science boost while klingons should basically have tac heavy ships with a engineering boost and Starfleet should be the most versatile. And that's probably the biggest flaw: IF you have to press Star Trek into the primitive ruleset of an fantasy-MMO, STO got it all wrong and that what's causing all the "beef" with their ship designs
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Give up on the D'Deridex. It's slated to be the Ticklebeam Cloakboat that the REAL Romulans make fun of as we pew pew pew right past it in our Mogais.
I think that the whole point of the multiple voices now being heard is that folks didn't fight for the Galaxy , and they are regretting that now ... , and they see the D'Deridex as a second chance for that fight that should have been had (and won) in the first place .
3 Tac consoles will not make this ship OP .
It will not even blur the lines between the fire power of the d'Deridex and the fire power of the Guramba for example , as the Guramba has a far more tactical Boff layout .
Well thats why we are making threads like this trying to convince the devs to change the sorry state this ship is currently in. Do you have something to add to the discussion as to why or why not it shouldn't be changed or what changes you would like to see?
You can make all the threads you want, they're not going to make it the Romulan version of the Excelsior. They have other ships they plan to release. That will cost money/resources. Like the Excelsior does. And then a fleet version which will cost more money/resources.
Like I said, I saw the REGULAR D'deridex do a U-turn within seconds, far more effectively than my Defiant ever could. WITHOUT CLOAKING.
The T4 Defiant has a base turn of 17. So you're exaggerating to the point of lying. A regular D'Deridex can not turn more effectively than a Defiant without cloaking.
You can make all the threads you want, they're not going to make it the Romulan version of the Excelsior. They have other ships they plan to release. That will cost money/resources. Like the Excelsior does. And then a fleet version which will cost more money/resources.
Using multiple RCS Consoles? Because you can put those on every other ship.
The T4 Defiant has a base turn of 17. So you're exaggerating to the point of lying. A regular D'Deridex can not turn more effectively than a Defiant without cloaking.
Funny that you mention the Excelsior, a ship much older and should be easily outmatched by a ship like the D'Deridex. Also funny that your sig wants a T5 Connie with 3 tac consoles which I don't have a problem with, yet you seem to still be ok with the D'D only having 2 tac consoles.
The T4 Defiant has a base turn of 17. So you're exaggerating to the point of lying. A regular D'Deridex can not turn more effectively than a Defiant without cloaking.
You wish. :rolleyes:
P.S. It was in an elite STF (don't ask why was he flying a T4 D'Deridex, I have no idea), I was flying a T5 Defiant, and while I am not exaggerating one bit, it is possible that he was not only using as many RCS accelerators as he could (something I've been known to do on my Vo'Quv, which hits about 10 degrees per second on HOLODECK), but also various other buffs.
So, failing to deliver the full details of WHY it happened? Maybe. Exaggerating or lying? Not a chance.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Comments
"Increased damage due to narrow firing arc" would b an argument if the weapons were fit on ships that didn't have the LUDICROUS turnrate that STO's escorts have.
This is the major point. Noone ever complained about breen crusiers, kdf cruisers or the Galaxy dreadnought or the jhemmy dread even though they can use dual heavys.
It is because they can be outmaneuvered. Together with the fact thy do not have maneuver superiority to just run away at will and flat out speed tank the narrow firing arc principle works.
If you are front of a dual cannon dread or cruisers, pain is gonna rain in as it should since its such a narrow arc weapon.
Now escorts, they do have maneuver supremacy and on top of that have long since ceased to be "glass cannons".
Add into that the whole "beams ruin their own damage due to cryptics fcked up power system" and you'd be getting to the core of things...
Since the KDF has BoPs, the battlecruisers are also pretty much a waste.
Several times they showed cruisers being overwhelmed by jem hadar attack ships, but if I'm not mistaken, jem hadar weapons also originally basically went straight through federation shields until they were adapted. Ah yes, from memory alpha:
"Jem'Hadar fighters were relatively easy for a large starship to destroy. A few solid phaser or photon torpedo hits were enough to cripple or destroy one, therefore, they usually operated in groups of two or three during routine operations, and in much larger swarms in large battles so that the loss of one or two would not make much difference."
"Armaments of this type employed by this class varied from disruptors to phased polaron beam weapons. During initial encounters with the Federation, these phased polaron beams were capable of penetrating the shields of Federation starships."
"Outside of conventional weapon use, these ships were also used in performing kamikaze attacks on enemy vessels, which allowed them to inflict more damage than their weapons alone could perform."
I think one of the big problems in the game is that the devs have been balancing the game around the concept that a small ship like a bop should be comparable to a massive cruiser, which is ludicrous. They could very easily correct this by making bop/jem attack ship pilots fly a "flight" or "swarm" of ships rather than just one. If a bop pilot came in with three bops, the other two commanded as pets/and or flown in formation and the total damage added up to what a single bop can currently do, that would be more acceptable.
That or balance the game the way it should be which is: Cruisers do the most damage and can take the most damage, but they can't avoid damage because they are too slow, this also prevents them from maneuvering themselves to take advantage of enemy weaknesses. Escorts do high damage (not as much as cruisers) but can't take much damage either, but their high combat speed and maneuverability allows them to avoid a great deal of damage and easily position themselves to take advantage of enemy weaknesses. Science vessels would fall somewhere in the middle with better maneuverability and speed than a cruiser, but not as much as an escort, they can avoid more damage than a crusier but less than an escort, but their shields can take more of a beating than an escort, but not as much as a cruiser. They would do the lowest damage through weapons alone, but not so much lower that it might as well not even be there, but their damage is supplemented by the damage of their science abilities and the crippling of their enemies by science abilities.
Except that the only escort in the show that got any decent amount of screen time was the Defiant. And it did great damage, did lots of boom boom.
But then again... so did the Sovereign in First Contact, Insurrection, and it did pretty well in a 1v1 vs the Scimitar in Nemesis. Oh, and let's not forget the little Intrepid-class, the USS Voyager. She took on and defeated the Undine, Hirogen, Kazon (those scrubs don't count, they aren't even worth me spelling properly), in addition to dozens of other ships and enemies.
And then you have the Galaxy. That ship was very... unpredictable. Sometimes the Enterprise-D did wonderfully, and other times it made you wonder if Picard really was deserving of being a Captain.
However, as you can see, the Defiant wasn't the only killer on screen. And it certainly wasn't the most efficient or most effective.
What's the full boff layout?
Imagine the G-R layout, just change the eng lt. to universal lt. Something that G pilots pray for years.
So it is lt. tac, com. eng, lt. universal, lt. sci, ensign eng?
Let's hope it stays like this cause this could actually be pretty good.
Would have liked a lt com tac like the Excelsior has so I can high yield or spread 3 but 2 potential lt tacs and an ens tac is decent enough firepower.
You would think that with the massive amount of feedback they have gotten on the turn rate of the D'Deridex and the issue of beam weapon infectiveness, they would take this opportunity to not only "get it right" with the D'Deridex but also apply an overhaul to the Galaxy, Galaxy-X and other cruisers that need some help.
The company I work for has a motto: "Make the right thing happen."
It's apparent that Cryptic isn't interested in setting things right and applying balance to the ships in this game. Instead, it's all about Escort love. Heck, I've slowly been moving my characters out of Cruisers and into Escorts because frankly, I don't get the feeling of a "big battleship" from flying Cruisers, but rather the feeling of "big luxury cruiseliner". Sure, the cruiseliner might be as big as a battleship, but it has no teeth to it, so it's usefulness in battle is ZERO.
If the Mighty Mo (Iowa Class Battleships) had been as impotent as the Galaxy Class is, the United States would have lost the war in the Pacific in 1945.
And now, Cryptic is going to add yet another impotent cruiser to the game, completely ignoring anyone who actually plays in Cruisers.
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
What got me though is that there's also a homegrown Cryptic design called the Ha'apax that has the same turn rate and exists in the same tier but has a lt commander tac and 4 tactical consoles. So that proves that they are willing to do it, make a useful Romulan cruiser that is.
I'm not sure how else to put this but the vast majority of people are not going to be leveling a Romulan in this game because they WANT to fly the Ha'apax design. Most of those that end up in it will be there because it's demonstrably better than the D'deridex in the current layout. So here's an idea.
Switch the layouts.
Look, now everyone is happy.
Those few people that want to try to make some kind of gimmick build out of a ship with 5 engineering consoles and 2 tactical will be able to do so, and the majority of people that grew up watching TNG and associate the Romulans with the D'Deridex will get to fly the ship they want to without being out damaged by the Ambassador next to them.
Easy.
Alternatively make a "B-Type" D'Deridex that is a tactical version of it just like there's a tactical and science Ha'apex. Then players will be able to choose if they want to overly invest in science or engineering, or if they want a ship that can actually be useful in current end game content.
That thing does a U-turn better than most escorts do. :eek:
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
PWE/Cryptic wouldn't be happy
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Excellent ideas, similar to ideas I posted earlier. A lot of us Romulan fans will make a Romulan to fly the D'D and will buy a tactical version of it in the fleet or z-store. It doesn't require much work, the model is already there, they just need to create a tactical version with 4 tac consoles and at least lt Cmdr tac.
Can't be too difficult to make a D'deridex that people WANT to fly.
3 Tac consoles, a decent turnrate and voila, there we go.
-> and if it is really all about selling something, then give the 3rd Tac console to the C-St'oridex only.
It is a War ship designed by a species that LOVES the Hit-and-Run and Ambush style of attack not the Stand and Fight style like the Klingons. What would be really awesome would be a console setup more like the Bortasqu' tactical for the C-Store D'deridex. Also BOFF seating like that ship would make it pretty beastly with battle cloak.
But Cryptic, PLEASE, you are splashing the face of that War Bird on all your adds, it is the most Iconic Romulan ship out there, it is THE Face of Romulan power, do NOT make it suck so hard that flying it makes you feel guilty because you know it is just for looks and no substance.
And it can't turn more than 5 base.
Two words: Galaxy Class?
EDIT: And I don't mean that the Galaxy should be the best ship or the most capable, but it IS maybe the most iconic ship in the whole franchise. And it sucks in an embarassing way. And they did that for each and every one of the big cruisers, be it Fed, Klingon or now Romulan.
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Well thats why we are making threads like this trying to convince the devs to change the sorry state this ship is currently in. Do you have something to add to the discussion as to why or why not it shouldn't be changed or what changes you would like to see?
I don't see the point in making a battelcloaking ship unable to carry out ambushes due to lack of firepower myself. The bad turn can be handled with battlecloak and RCS, but it needs more tac consoles and Lt Cmdr Tac boff to make the battlecloak it gives up turn and power levels for to even be worht having
I got the retrofit version to turn at 13, and cloaked 30.
Like I said, I saw the REGULAR D'deridex do a U-turn within seconds, far more effectively than my Defiant ever could. WITHOUT CLOAKING.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
In the abstract there is nothing at all wrong with ship design in the game. Escort Top DPS/Turn, worst shield output/crew, mid hull. Cruiser best hull/crew, mid DPS/shields, low turn. Science ship is Worst DPS/hull, best shields, mid turn/crew.
The problem lies in content design where most content favors high DPS and maneuverability. Create meaningful content that favors tanking ability and moderate DPS and cruisers become viable.
That is a sad truth... Exxxceeept... For the Klingons the Vor'Cha was one of their big standards for a long while and that one is actually quite viable. It is not the best but it is not too shabby and the Mirror one is really nice. The Negh'var is pretty strongly "eh" though... Not as bad as the others but close...
Keep in mind we are talking the Galaxy R or Fleet Galaxy NOT the lower level Galaxy here...
The Galaxy, and likely this ship if it stays as is, will be generating LESS DPS than most Science Vessels due to such heavy amounts of Engineering BOFFs and low Tactical Consoles. In the meantime that big hull and healing is somewhat irrelevant considering that Escorts can easily tank the most vicious enemies in the game and still thoroughly trounce your DPS. Also: Why would a D'deridex be concerned with having a big tank to begin with? It is a top-notch war ship for a species who's strategy tends to be only fighting when they have the advantage. Pop out of cloak, murder your victim, and re-cloak before they get a chance to even shoot back. That sort of ship does not need huge tank it needs huge guns.
Also Cryptic seems to have trouble with the idea of enemies that fight hard enough to make Tank useful without just OHKing everything regardless of its stats. It is all-or-nothing with them for some reason.
AWESOME!
TRIBBLE your bloody tac console's!!!
I love that boff layout and what would ido with 5 tac consoles anway. there is so much CHEESE in console form i wanna put on this hunk that tac consoles are the least of my priorities....
What is important is the boff seating, and its GOOD.
While I do agree that the game basically is a casual lunch break shooter which screws everything but DPS dealers, I do heavily disagree that there is nothing wrong with how ships are handled.
But this is a more principal issue. Star Trek ships just don't work the way this game forces them to work. There are actually no "roles" for Starfleet vessels as each and every one of them is a multi-purpose ship (except two or three dedicated designs: Sovereign, Oberth and Olympic) which should be reflected in the game. As such, Federation ships should have more universal stations and more all-round console slots (though the "console" system is flawed in the first place). Especially the Galaxy class does not deserve to be just a tank - if any ship would deserve three basic refits (tac, eng, sci) it would be the galaxy and not that... thing... they did for STO.
What would work wuite well - without reworking the entire game, would be Galaxy refits for tac, sci or eng purposes. The fleet galaxy being the ENG variant while the d'deridex became what tac or sci galaxies should look like. The warbird, on the other hand, should not be a engineering heavy vessel by any means. It's a warship - Starfleet vessels aren't. The basc principle should be a tac heavy d'deridex with a science boost while klingons should basically have tac heavy ships with a engineering boost and Starfleet should be the most versatile. And that's probably the biggest flaw: IF you have to press Star Trek into the primitive ruleset of an fantasy-MMO, STO got it all wrong and that what's causing all the "beef" with their ship designs
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I think that the whole point of the multiple voices now being heard is that folks didn't fight for the Galaxy , and they are regretting that now ... , and they see the D'Deridex as a second chance for that fight that should have been had (and won) in the first place .
3 Tac consoles will not make this ship OP .
It will not even blur the lines between the fire power of the d'Deridex and the fire power of the Guramba for example , as the Guramba has a far more tactical Boff layout .
You can make all the threads you want, they're not going to make it the Romulan version of the Excelsior. They have other ships they plan to release. That will cost money/resources. Like the Excelsior does. And then a fleet version which will cost more money/resources.
Using multiple RCS Consoles? Because you can put those on every other ship.
The T4 Defiant has a base turn of 17. So you're exaggerating to the point of lying. A regular D'Deridex can not turn more effectively than a Defiant without cloaking.
Funny that you mention the Excelsior, a ship much older and should be easily outmatched by a ship like the D'Deridex. Also funny that your sig wants a T5 Connie with 3 tac consoles which I don't have a problem with, yet you seem to still be ok with the D'D only having 2 tac consoles.
You wish. :rolleyes:
P.S. It was in an elite STF (don't ask why was he flying a T4 D'Deridex, I have no idea), I was flying a T5 Defiant, and while I am not exaggerating one bit, it is possible that he was not only using as many RCS accelerators as he could (something I've been known to do on my Vo'Quv, which hits about 10 degrees per second on HOLODECK), but also various other buffs.
So, failing to deliver the full details of WHY it happened? Maybe. Exaggerating or lying? Not a chance.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.