I assumed it was to clear the galaxy of lesser organisms that had taken root, like setting off a bug bomb. If we take Spock at his word, it was a threat to the whole galaxy and seemed to be a shockwave traveling at warp that caused other stars to trigger the same way.
Although perhaps if I wanted to get novel with Trek lore, maybe the goal was something like breaking the barrier around the galactic rim. Although the question then becomes why detonate the initial blast so far away. Another possibility would be another attempt to reroute a body like the Nexus. A third possibility as I suggested before is that objects hit by the blast might be affected in unusual ways that we haven't thought to investigate. We are talking about a nuclear blast that somehow grows in intensity as the blast radius expands, traveling at WARP SPEED.
That's the part I keep coming back to. It's an explosion traveling at warp or even transwarp without a warp field.
My crazy, convoluted pet idea there that I expressed recently on the forums was perhaps that such a blast could subject everything it touches to something akin to infinite time dilation. That isn't supported by any hard fact but is a wild conjecture.
And the idea there would be that thousands of years (or perhaps even a literal eternity) passed on Romulus in what may have been seconds or hours for us. Which could have all kinds of fun implications.
I dunno. A major fault with your speculation is how much it contradicts what Hakeev told us. He certainly believed he was in contact with Iconians. He took orders from someone he believed to be Iconians.
And whoever these people are, they did help fight off the Borg.
Just a fun idea, but what if that FTL shockwave was supposed to have a similar effect as old warp drives? You know, from before they figured out they were ripping holes into subspace (or whatever the problem was supposed to be). Iconians don't really need warp drive; but pretty much everyone else seems to.
Perhaps, if the shockwave had continued to spread, it would have been like scattering Omega particles all over the place; the results would have been much like the Reapers method of taking over the Relays in Mass Effect. Divide and slaughter.
Have they ever shown someone coming from the other side of a gateless portal? No, but how do we know it was impossible to go back through?
I see the Iconian portals like the Stargate (Stargate series). You have Stargates connecting to one location to another, but without the dialing device, you couldn't return. But highly advanced civilizations had remotes where you didn't need the dialing devices.
Similarly, if the Iconian portals without another gate is a 1-way trip, then they are at a major disadvantage. Like the gate in Fluidic space, if they were discovered before they completed their gate, then surely they would've been goners and their plan ruined.
So it's logical to assume they have a way to reopen a portal with advanced technology without the need for another gate. Now if the gate needs to be on from a origin source to their location, well that's up for someone to determine.
Always saw Sela as a strategist that waits for a particular time to strike. How else she went from being in trouble to Empress in a short time?
Thats how I see Hobus, the Iconains promised Taris and her followers great rewards for temporarily sacrificing their Empire to destroy the Federation and the Klingon Empire. And once the dust settled, their territory, became Romulan Territory.
But who's to say the Iconians would honor that deal?
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
You may be on to something (as opposed to just on something). There was a TNG episode about a terrorist group that used Folded-Space Transporters to beam themselves over long distances, through shields, etc.
The technology... had some side-effects.
It's possible Iconian technology is similar in nature.
The Kes(or was it the Prytt?), yeah, it was slowly killing them, BUT what's to say they couldn't improve the tech to make it less hazardous?
That's a really scary idea Manx, and actually kinda plausible...
I guess waiting 2 years for the Rocket to reach the star, then 8 minutes for the light to stop, and then another 8 months or so for the shockwave to reach the planet would be kind of boring wouldn't it? :P
Months? How slow do you think a Nova is? 1 AU is about 8.3 light minutes. A regular Nova, something weaker than what happened at Amargosa, gives off a shockwave that travels several thousand KM a second. Assuming that it's 5000, it would only take it about 8.3 hours to travel 1 AU. But we don't know that EITHER use of Soren's device was at a range of 1 AU, they could have been considerably less.
And why would the rocket take 2 YEARS to get there? Real world, pointing something directly at the sun would give you fast enough acceleration for it to get there in a matter of days. A Star Trek Impulse Drive would be a matter of minutes.
Kinda like Logicalspock said.... but like someone said earlier, we don't know that the effect of the device would linger. The explosion observed is consistent with what might happen if stellar fusion was temporarily interrupted. Thus triggering a partial stellar implosion before fusion resumed at an out of control pace. Which then would cause the star to explode.
what if D'Tan is an agent of Sela, bringing the unificationators together for easy stomping
It is doubtful that he is in Sela's pocket. The Tal Shair wouldn't be approaching him if he was already on their side. D'Tan seem legit in his goal of opposing the "Empress" and appears to want to unite Romulans and restore their heritage, especially after finding the sword and gaining traction with the FED/KDF.
If Sela were around, she probably wouldn't be too happy about this second "Mol Rihan", but she's not around as far as we know. Neither is Hakeev for that matter.
But that makes me wonder, what was the working relationship between Sela and Hakeev? He clearly had connections with what he believed to be Iconians. Did she as well?
But that makes me wonder, what was the working relationship between Sela and Hakeev? He clearly had connections with what he believed to be Iconians. Did she as well?
It is doubtful that he is in Sela's pocket. The Tal Shair wouldn't be approaching him if he was already on their side. D'Tan seem legit in his goal of opposing the "Empress" and appears to want to unite Romulans and restore their heritage, especially after finding the sword and gaining traction with the FED/KDF.
If Sela were around, she probably wouldn't be too happy about this second "Mol Rihan", but she's not around as far as we know. Neither is Hakeev for that matter.
But that makes me wonder, what was the working relationship between Sela and Hakeev? He clearly had connections with what he believed to be Iconians. Did she as well?
I don't like to think Sela knew anything about the Iconians. It's waayy too easy to start painting all the villains with the brush of "this is the ultimate evil!" if that happens. Sela is a far more interesting character if she truly believes she's continuing the legacy of the Romulan Empire unbroken by intervention, whether by Humans or Klingons, or even Iconians.
If she learned of Iconians manipulating the Tal Shiar, she should be furious, and now that she has been abducted by them? They're keeping her prisoner, not working with her. She's far more interesting this way, I think.
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I always assumed that the Iconians had forced/persuaded Taris to destroy the hobus star to make the romulans weaker and more accepting of their aid. gain an ally but one that is so broken that it could not pose much of a threat should they refuse
they then ally with hakeev but when he dies they spring Taris out of jail.
I suspect they capture sela to try and convince her to join their cause. where sela then places her loyalty would be a big storyline. will she be a proper villain or is their some redemption for her, by betraying the iconians at the end and helping us.
im think the iconians will have some kind of mind control to keep getting all these romulan patriots to jump into bed with them, so to speak.
Hav, did you even read the path to 2409? She was pretty clearly working with Iconians.
Just because she spoke with a shadowy figure doesn't necessarily mean it was an Iconian. I can think of one shadowy figure who was supposed to be a Romulan -- http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Humanoid_Figure
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I don't like to think Sela knew anything about the Iconians. It's waayy too easy to start painting all the villains with the brush of "this is the ultimate evil!" if that happens. Sela is a far more interesting character if she truly believes she's continuing the legacy of the Romulan Empire unbroken by intervention, whether by Humans or Klingons, or even Iconians.
If she learned of Iconians manipulating the Tal Shiar, she should be furious, and now that she has been abducted by them? They're keeping her prisoner, not working with her. She's far more interesting this way, I think.
Yeah, I think that Romulans now have a 3 way split. The part that supprots the Iconians, the part supporting D'Tan, and the rest of them(Sela's group).
It is doubtful that he is in Sela's pocket. The Tal Shair wouldn't be approaching him if he was already on their side. D'Tan seem legit in his goal of opposing the "Empress" and appears to want to unite Romulans and restore their heritage, especially after finding the sword and gaining traction with the FED/KDF.
If Sela were around, she probably wouldn't be too happy about this second "Mol Rihan", but she's not around as far as we know. Neither is Hakeev for that matter.
But that makes me wonder, what was the working relationship between Sela and Hakeev? He clearly had connections with what he believed to be Iconians. Did she as well?
The problem with reunification as I see it is that it would take away from Romulan heritage. I get what ur saying mate, its all good and fine to want to reunite the Romulans and Vulcans (although I suspect the Vulcans my not exactly be open to the idea) but there was a reason for the split.
For a long time now they have lived independently and while some Romulans (Female TOS Commander) have expressed interest in their Vulcan cousins thats a long way off from integration of the two now distinct species. Afterall Romulans my be emotional, but they are not crazy like their Vulcan ancestors and they did not have to forgo emotion like current Vulcans.
As for the theories of the Tal Shiar and Iconians I have a running one.
1. When Admiral T'nae went back in time with the Enterprise C she was captured by the Romulans as well. She was then determined to be from the future and had some knowledge of the destruction of Romulus.
2. Thus and organization was created to work toward this problem: the Tal Shiar. Over the course of many many years they "collected" Romulan citizens and cryogenically preserved them as 'Sleeper citizens' to be revived after the Hobus destruction.
3. Now we know the Romulans were after Iconian Gateways atleast by TNG, supposing they found one or several and those were taken over by the Tal Shiar as a way to offload the collected citizens and important officials quickly before the Hobus explosion. Everyone would assume they had died, when in reality they were simply relocated far away using the gateway.
4. At some point the Romulans encountered the Iconians or perhapse just found Iconian technology and began using it recently and masqueraded as the Demons of Air and Darkness, afterall a Giant Romulan Mogai (the actual bird) was a meat eating bird (of the air) that cast a large shadow (it darkened the stars).
5. So the Iconians could be sort of patrons of the Romulans, using them. The Romulans, being pragmatic would go along until the thought they could get the upper hand. OR the "Iconians" are the Romulans that evacuated secretly from Romulus and the 'rescue' of Sela was just the old government reeling her in to prepare her and her followers for their return as the "Great Raptors of Air and Darkness"
The one thing that the Iconian arc has been reminiscent of, and this in no way is an accusation of a "rip off", more a thumbs up for "imitating" a great story from another sci fi show (B5) was the lead in to the Shadow war on Babylon 5.
Like B5, the major players were offered something by agents of an ancient, mysterious dark empire, to set the powers against one another and weaken them in prep for the clean up Invasion to come.
The entry in the path to 2409 reminded me of any of Londo's meetings with Shadow agents, not just because "shadowy" was used in it, but the entire context and feel.
The one thing that the Iconian arc has been reminiscent of, and this in no way is an accusation of a "rip off", more a thumbs up for "imitating" a great story from another sci fi show (B5) was the lead in to the Shadow war on Babylon 5.
Like B5, the major players were offered something by agents of an ancient, mysterious dark empire, to set the powers against one another and weaken them in prep for the clean up Invasion to come.
The entry in the path to 2409 reminded me of any of Londo's meetings with Shadow agents, not just because "shadowy" was used in it, but the entire context and feel.
And we all know what working with the Shadows cost Londo....
And we all know what working with the Shadows cost Londo....
In an odd way, working with the Shadows put in motion a chain of events that led to the rebirth of the Centauri Republic (granted it took the near annihilation of said Republic to make it happen, and Molari didn't live to see it, but it happened) as a member of the galactic community...
Which is one of the possible end-states that the whole Romulan mess has.
If she learned of Iconians manipulating the Tal Shiar, she should be furious, and now that she has been abducted by them? They're keeping her prisoner, not working with her. She's far more interesting this way, I think.
I respectfully disagree with you. Sela's the kind of person that would stop at nothing to ensure Romulan superiority, even if that means getting in bed with the Iconians. At the end of the Romulan FEs she wasn't captured, she was rescued.
He clearly had connections with what he believed to be Iconians. Did she as well?
Sorry to join the convo late, but i would just like to question why dstahl is suggesting that the Iconians are not really Iconians. While most of the evidence in the story so far has been hearsay and circumstantial , one particular episode to offer more evidence for the Iconians being Iconians, "State of Q."
In that episode Q directly says that the "Demons of Air and Darkness" (or something similar, don't have episode text in front of me) are responsible in some way for sending borg back in time. There are a number of interpretations of this:
1. "Iconians" are the Iconians. dstahl is messing with us.
2. Iconians and the "Demons" are two different but related species, Iconians are dead, but the "Demons" are returning.
3. Someone is masquerading as the Iconians, and Q is messing with us because he is Q.
4. Someone is masquerading as the Iconians, and Q, an omniscient being, has been fooled as well. This is terrifying
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The way I am seeing it, the Hur'Q are a puppet race to the Iconians and brought the Fehk'lir (spelling?) back to deflect suspicion of their involvement so the KDF will focus on the returning Hur'Q not Iconians.
Sela could have tried doing what Londo did..realizing the 'deal" was going to go bad, she tried changing it to her advantage and they caught on to her.
Trek would be very boring if we saw what went on while they were traveling between worlds, there is only so much small talk.
Data: course plotted sir, we will arrive in 20 hours
Picard: good......soo anything new guys.
Data: ship status is green
Picard: so Data hows trying to be human going
Data: okay
Picard: umm ok, so Consular you and Riker huh? how was that?
Troi: he left me waiting at a waterfall.
Picard: TRIBBLE this, I'll be in my ready room taking a nap, wake me when we get there.
The axiom of sorties and patrols, hours of boredom punctuated by minutes of terror. TV plots are always about the minutes of terror. The rest IS boring.
Speaking of D'Tan I cant help but notice some similarities between him and Dastahl.
1 Dan and D'Tan sound a alike
2 Dan and D'Tan look alike minus the ears and ridges
3 There both the leaders or there respective projects
4 T'Tan is building New Romulus; Dan is building new Star Trek
The first thing I thought of when I heard of the Tau Dewa sector block is that reminds me of Mountain Dew.
If it turns out Dan loves to drink Mountain Dew this is gonna be a bit much to be pure coincidence. :P
It is doubtful that he is in Sela's pocket. The Tal Shair wouldn't be approaching him if he was already on their side. D'Tan seem legit in his goal of opposing the "Empress" and appears to want to unite Romulans and restore their heritage, especially after finding the sword and gaining traction with the FED/KDF.
If Sela were around, she probably wouldn't be too happy about this second "Mol Rihan", but she's not around as far as we know. Neither is Hakeev for that matter.
But that makes me wonder, what was the working relationship between Sela and Hakeev? He clearly had connections with what he believed to be Iconians. Did she as well?
In the iconian gate logs in colliseum isn't it stated it had been used to board Sela's ship? Might have been the one hakeev had but I'm pretty sure that gate had been used to get to sela's scimitar.
In the iconian gate logs in colliseum isn't it stated it had been used to board Sela's ship? Might have been the one hakeev had but I'm pretty sure that gate had been used to get to sela's scimitar.
So all that means is that Hakeev and/or one of his agents are just using the gateway to travel to Sela's flagship, for all we know he's just using it to spy on her. Which makes sense seeing as she deposed the Iconian's last important minion costing them outright control of the empire, they probably want to make sure she doesn't unknowingly TRIBBLE up any of their other plans.
In the iconian gate logs in colliseum isn't it stated it had been used to board Sela's ship? Might have been the one hakeev had but I'm pretty sure that gate had been used to get to sela's scimitar.
Just because the Gateway sent someone to Sela's ship doesn't mean she knew about it.
In Contagion Picard ends up on Taris' ship after jumping through the Iconian Gateway and she had no idea he was coming and was arguably not involved with the Iconians at the time.
So all that means is that Hakeev and/or one of his agents are just using the gateway to travel to Sela's flagship, for all we know he's just using it to spy on her. Which makes sense seeing as she deposed the Iconian's last important minion costing them outright control of the empire, they probably want to make sure she doesn't unknowingly TRIBBLE up any of their other plans.
In an odd way, working with the Shadows put in motion a chain of events that led to the rebirth of the Centauri Republic (granted it took the near annihilation of said Republic to make it happen, and Molari didn't live to see it, but it happened) as a member of the galactic community...
Which is one of the possible end-states that the whole Romulan mess has.
Yeah, so if Taris is Mollari, then I guess that would make Sela G'Kar.... Which kinda says bad things about what will happen to EA/Starfleet....
Yeah, so if Taris is Mollari, then I guess that would make Sela G'Kar.... Which kinda says bad things about what will happen to EA/Starfleet....
Playing the Drakh War parallel?
Granted I may be a bit biased by my absolute adoration for the Peter Jurasik/Andreas Katsulas pairing, but I just don't see the Taris/Sela paradigm being analogous.
Although...
We don't actually know what happened to Tomalak do we?
Comments
Just a fun idea, but what if that FTL shockwave was supposed to have a similar effect as old warp drives? You know, from before they figured out they were ripping holes into subspace (or whatever the problem was supposed to be). Iconians don't really need warp drive; but pretty much everyone else seems to.
Perhaps, if the shockwave had continued to spread, it would have been like scattering Omega particles all over the place; the results would have been much like the Reapers method of taking over the Relays in Mass Effect. Divide and slaughter.
Whoa...what if Iconians are the Ori? :eek:
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I have a hard time picturing Iconians flying giant space toilet seats.
That's a really scary idea Manx, and actually kinda plausible... Months? How slow do you think a Nova is? 1 AU is about 8.3 light minutes. A regular Nova, something weaker than what happened at Amargosa, gives off a shockwave that travels several thousand KM a second. Assuming that it's 5000, it would only take it about 8.3 hours to travel 1 AU. But we don't know that EITHER use of Soren's device was at a range of 1 AU, they could have been considerably less.
And why would the rocket take 2 YEARS to get there? Real world, pointing something directly at the sun would give you fast enough acceleration for it to get there in a matter of days. A Star Trek Impulse Drive would be a matter of minutes.
Kinda like Logicalspock said.... but like someone said earlier, we don't know that the effect of the device would linger. The explosion observed is consistent with what might happen if stellar fusion was temporarily interrupted. Thus triggering a partial stellar implosion before fusion resumed at an out of control pace. Which then would cause the star to explode.
My character Tsin'xing
lol, we got a glimpse I'm talking about the full trip nothing going on just them and studying the stars without something trying to kill them.
I'm talking about a typical Monday 9-5 day nothing interesting going on just them chasing comets.;)
It is doubtful that he is in Sela's pocket. The Tal Shair wouldn't be approaching him if he was already on their side. D'Tan seem legit in his goal of opposing the "Empress" and appears to want to unite Romulans and restore their heritage, especially after finding the sword and gaining traction with the FED/KDF.
If Sela were around, she probably wouldn't be too happy about this second "Mol Rihan", but she's not around as far as we know. Neither is Hakeev for that matter.
But that makes me wonder, what was the working relationship between Sela and Hakeev? He clearly had connections with what he believed to be Iconians. Did she as well?
It was rhetorical, he wasn't actually asking you, he was inviting speculation.
I don't like to think Sela knew anything about the Iconians. It's waayy too easy to start painting all the villains with the brush of "this is the ultimate evil!" if that happens. Sela is a far more interesting character if she truly believes she's continuing the legacy of the Romulan Empire unbroken by intervention, whether by Humans or Klingons, or even Iconians.
If she learned of Iconians manipulating the Tal Shiar, she should be furious, and now that she has been abducted by them? They're keeping her prisoner, not working with her. She's far more interesting this way, I think.
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they then ally with hakeev but when he dies they spring Taris out of jail.
I suspect they capture sela to try and convince her to join their cause. where sela then places her loyalty would be a big storyline. will she be a proper villain or is their some redemption for her, by betraying the iconians at the end and helping us.
im think the iconians will have some kind of mind control to keep getting all these romulan patriots to jump into bed with them, so to speak.
Just because she spoke with a shadowy figure doesn't necessarily mean it was an Iconian. I can think of one shadowy figure who was supposed to be a Romulan -- http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Humanoid_Figure
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My character Tsin'xing
The problem with reunification as I see it is that it would take away from Romulan heritage. I get what ur saying mate, its all good and fine to want to reunite the Romulans and Vulcans (although I suspect the Vulcans my not exactly be open to the idea) but there was a reason for the split.
For a long time now they have lived independently and while some Romulans (Female TOS Commander) have expressed interest in their Vulcan cousins thats a long way off from integration of the two now distinct species. Afterall Romulans my be emotional, but they are not crazy like their Vulcan ancestors and they did not have to forgo emotion like current Vulcans.
As for the theories of the Tal Shiar and Iconians I have a running one.
1. When Admiral T'nae went back in time with the Enterprise C she was captured by the Romulans as well. She was then determined to be from the future and had some knowledge of the destruction of Romulus.
2. Thus and organization was created to work toward this problem: the Tal Shiar. Over the course of many many years they "collected" Romulan citizens and cryogenically preserved them as 'Sleeper citizens' to be revived after the Hobus destruction.
3. Now we know the Romulans were after Iconian Gateways atleast by TNG, supposing they found one or several and those were taken over by the Tal Shiar as a way to offload the collected citizens and important officials quickly before the Hobus explosion. Everyone would assume they had died, when in reality they were simply relocated far away using the gateway.
4. At some point the Romulans encountered the Iconians or perhapse just found Iconian technology and began using it recently and masqueraded as the Demons of Air and Darkness, afterall a Giant Romulan Mogai (the actual bird) was a meat eating bird (of the air) that cast a large shadow (it darkened the stars).
5. So the Iconians could be sort of patrons of the Romulans, using them. The Romulans, being pragmatic would go along until the thought they could get the upper hand. OR the "Iconians" are the Romulans that evacuated secretly from Romulus and the 'rescue' of Sela was just the old government reeling her in to prepare her and her followers for their return as the "Great Raptors of Air and Darkness"
Like B5, the major players were offered something by agents of an ancient, mysterious dark empire, to set the powers against one another and weaken them in prep for the clean up Invasion to come.
The entry in the path to 2409 reminded me of any of Londo's meetings with Shadow agents, not just because "shadowy" was used in it, but the entire context and feel.
My character Tsin'xing
In an odd way, working with the Shadows put in motion a chain of events that led to the rebirth of the Centauri Republic (granted it took the near annihilation of said Republic to make it happen, and Molari didn't live to see it, but it happened) as a member of the galactic community...
Which is one of the possible end-states that the whole Romulan mess has.
I respectfully disagree with you. Sela's the kind of person that would stop at nothing to ensure Romulan superiority, even if that means getting in bed with the Iconians. At the end of the Romulan FEs she wasn't captured, she was rescued.
Sorry to join the convo late, but i would just like to question why dstahl is suggesting that the Iconians are not really Iconians. While most of the evidence in the story so far has been hearsay and circumstantial , one particular episode to offer more evidence for the Iconians being Iconians, "State of Q."
In that episode Q directly says that the "Demons of Air and Darkness" (or something similar, don't have episode text in front of me) are responsible in some way for sending borg back in time. There are a number of interpretations of this:
1. "Iconians" are the Iconians. dstahl is messing with us.
2. Iconians and the "Demons" are two different but related species, Iconians are dead, but the "Demons" are returning.
3. Someone is masquerading as the Iconians, and Q is messing with us because he is Q.
4. Someone is masquerading as the Iconians, and Q, an omniscient being, has been fooled as well. This is terrifying
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Sela could have tried doing what Londo did..realizing the 'deal" was going to go bad, she tried changing it to her advantage and they caught on to her.
The axiom of sorties and patrols, hours of boredom punctuated by minutes of terror. TV plots are always about the minutes of terror. The rest IS boring.
1 Dan and D'Tan sound a alike
2 Dan and D'Tan look alike minus the ears and ridges
3 There both the leaders or there respective projects
4 T'Tan is building New Romulus; Dan is building new Star Trek
The first thing I thought of when I heard of the Tau Dewa sector block is that reminds me of Mountain Dew.
If it turns out Dan loves to drink Mountain Dew this is gonna be a bit much to be pure coincidence. :P
In the iconian gate logs in colliseum isn't it stated it had been used to board Sela's ship? Might have been the one hakeev had but I'm pretty sure that gate had been used to get to sela's scimitar.
So all that means is that Hakeev and/or one of his agents are just using the gateway to travel to Sela's flagship, for all we know he's just using it to spy on her. Which makes sense seeing as she deposed the Iconian's last important minion costing them outright control of the empire, they probably want to make sure she doesn't unknowingly TRIBBLE up any of their other plans.
Just because the Gateway sent someone to Sela's ship doesn't mean she knew about it.
In Contagion Picard ends up on Taris' ship after jumping through the Iconian Gateway and she had no idea he was coming and was arguably not involved with the Iconians at the time.
What you said...
My character Tsin'xing
Playing the Drakh War parallel?
Granted I may be a bit biased by my absolute adoration for the Peter Jurasik/Andreas Katsulas pairing, but I just don't see the Taris/Sela paradigm being analogous.
Although...
We don't actually know what happened to Tomalak do we?