A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I can't remember the last time 7 days seemed like an eternity.
7 days is nothing, given there's gonna be one "cryptic" picture released with the planned date of release for the next FE. Could be another CD, if they're really confident in their work.
I guess more likely is they'll keep it as "May" though and just confirm it's an FE and give it a name.
What's really bad is still over 17 days for GoT...
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
even experts aren't always automatically right, though in this case, the guy used a formula, so i'm inclined to believe him...providing he calculated everything right, of course
Off course everything here is pure speculation since there is (afaik) no way to "just like that" rob the star of the fusion, energy, whatever you call it.
He didn't use a formula, he linked to a formula thats part of the explaination of why the star wouldn't go boom.
And I'm pretty sure scientists can't calculate the effects of a fictional item. :rolleyes:
Ok, let's take another look at that: The link provided in Dr. Stapelfeldt's post mentions the cooling of a surface of a planet or star. That's not our theoretical case: We stop the fusion at the core of the star. And these reactions are what "keeps gravity in check".
Also, as stated in the link: "The cooling causes the pressure to drop and the star or planet shrinks as a result. This compression, in turn, heats up the core of the star/planet."
Depending on the size of the star, that compression can be enought to ignite the remaining material... ending in a supernova.
And we're back where we started. :P
In 2009-2010, NASA used Supercomputers to model various Supernova's and the majority of the models collapsed upon themselves without an explosion.
The only way you could possibly get a Supernova is if the devices were used on a large mass such as a Supergiant or a Hypergiant. And the nearest Supergiant is Canpus, which is 310 Light years away and the nearest Hypergiant is P Cygni, which his 5000 to 6000 Light years away. Both these stars are way outside of Federation, Klingon, or Romulan space. So unless the Tox Uthat does more than just inhibit nuclear reactions, a star is just going to go poof. Just like what Dr. Stapelfeld said in his reply.
Which means the Tox Uthat isn't the same Iconian device that caused the Hobus Supernova, since the two effectively have opposite affects - the Uthat turns off stars, while the Iconian one supercharges them.
If you want to prove that it would cause a supernova, then by all means get yourself a PH.D. in Stellar Astropyhsics or hire an Astrophysicist, borrow a Supercomputer, and have fun modeling. :P
How exactly did you phrase the question? Context would make a difference.
If you must know, all I did was link him to the Uthat on Memory Alpha, asked him what would happen if this device halted nuclear fusion within a star. That was it.
Since all we know about the Uthat is that it was from the future and it inhibited nuclear reactions within a star, nothing else could be said that could've changed the response. Like not knowing the details of how fast the Uthat works. He just gave us his professional response what happens if a star's nuclear reactions suddenly stopped.
Which tells me that his response was probably tailored towards the assumption that the Uthat's effect would linger and continue to prevent fusion.
Yes. I come to the same conclusion about his assumptions. Because if the suspension of nuclear reaction of the star was not ongoing, you still have the collapse of the star and jump starting fusion again. That would be much worse then just shutting the star off entirely.
If the temperature in the core gets high enough, it may start the helium cycle. And they could start hydrogen fusion near the core. That would push the star into a Red Giant or possibly through off it's outer shells. It's not a nova, but it's not a good thing for the local area around the star.
Which tells me that his response was probably tailored towards the assumption that the Uthat's effect would linger and continue to prevent fusion.
Yes. I reached the same conclusion about it assumptions. But if the nuclear reactions are not stopped entire, that could be even worse.
The star would still continue to collapse and nuclear reactions would start up again. If the temperate in the core got hot enough to start the helium cycle, that would cause the hydrogen near the core to start fusing. And that would cause the star develop into a Red Giant and possibley through off it's outer layers. It's not a nova, but still not a good thing for the local area near the star.
The only way to get to anything close to serious hypothesis on what would happen with a star would be knowing what exactly the Tox Uthat does, and how it does it.
Which off course we'll never know. :P
Btw.: If the Tox Uthat were to have an effect resulting in that Kelvin-Helmholtz mechanism, then I fail to see how it could be used as weapon against any warp capable civilization (slow cooling of the star taking millions of years seems like plenty time to take action, or you know, run).
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Not really. It temporarily stopped fusion, then the star did exactly what people said, it partially collapsed before releasing a huge nova-like blast wave. NOTE: the blast wave was NOT shown to move faster than light.
... Could easily imagine the cameras not picking up anything and we see Taris talking to........nobody. Then she disappears in a flash, along with that other guy, whom they have plans for....
So if Taris just disappeared in a flash and the Feds believe it to be Iconian somehow, then it makes me wonder if what they used was a Gateway or something else. We know that they had perfected teleportation technology to the point where they never really needed ships anymore but in all the times we've seen a Gateway, there is always a device on one end that sends you somewhere else. Have they ever shown opening a portal and then having someone come from the other side? There have been a few alien species that have been shown to have technology like that.
And as far as Taris and Sela seeing eye-to-eye, I highly doubt that.
What would anyone (even the Iconians) have to gain by blowing up Hobus? What was the intented outcome? Did they achieve it? Did good-ol' Spock thwart the intended outcome in some way?
If someone had they power, would they blow up the Sun knowing that it would destroy Earth? Is that rational behavior? Who blows up their home star? Sure Soren blew up Armargosa, but he was a madman that wanted to get to the Nexus. If Taris blew up Hobus, what was her goal? Was she crazy?
I suppose something similar happened with Changeling Bashir, but again the goal there was to blow up the Bajoran star to take out the FED/KDF/ROM Fleet opposing the Dominion. If the goal here was to take out the Romulan Fleet, it sure didn't do a very good job.
We really need to know what Taris was trying to do or at least learn that she had gone mad like Soren.
I guess waiting 2 years for the Rocket to reach the star, then 8 minutes for the light to stop, and then another 8 months or so for the shockwave to reach the planet would be kind of boring wouldn't it? :P
I guess waiting 2 years for the Rocket to reach the star, then 8 minutes for the light to stop, and then another 8 months or so for the shockwave to reach the planet would be kind of boring wouldn't it? :P
Guess that depends on how Star Trek defines a "subspace shockwave".
So if Taris just disappeared in a flash and the Feds believe it to be Iconian somehow, then it makes me wonder if what they used was a Gateway or something else. We know that they had perfected teleportation technology to the point where they never really needed ships anymore but in all the times we've seen a Gateway, there is always a device on one end that sends you somewhere else. Have they ever shown opening a portal and then having someone come from the other side? There have been a few alien species that have been shown to have technology like that.
And as far as Taris and Sela seeing eye-to-eye, I highly doubt that.
What would anyone (even the Iconians) have to gain by blowing up Hobus? What was the intented outcome? Did they achieve it? Did good-ol' Spock thwart the intended outcome in some way?
If someone had they power, would they blow up the Sun knowing that it would destroy Earth? Is that rational behavior? Who blows up their home star? Sure Soren blew up Armargosa, but he was a madman that wanted to get to the Nexus. If Taris blew up Hobus, what was her goal? Was she crazy?
I suppose something similar happened with Changeling Bashir, but again the goal there was to blow up the Bajoran star to take out the FED/KDF/ROM Fleet opposing the Dominion. If the goal here was to take out the Romulan Fleet, it sure didn't do a very good job.
We really need to know what Taris was trying to do or at least learn that she had gone mad like Soren.
I assumed it was to clear the galaxy of lesser organisms that had taken root, like setting off a bug bomb. If we take Spock at his word, it was a threat to the whole galaxy and seemed to be a shockwave traveling at warp that caused other stars to trigger the same way.
Although perhaps if I wanted to get novel with Trek lore, maybe the goal was something like breaking the barrier around the galactic rim. Although the question then becomes why detonate the initial blast so far away. Another possibility would be another attempt to reroute a body like the Nexus. A third possibility as I suggested before is that objects hit by the blast might be affected in unusual ways that we haven't thought to investigate. We are talking about a nuclear blast that somehow grows in intensity as the blast radius expands, traveling at WARP SPEED.
That's the part I keep coming back to. It's an explosion traveling at warp or even transwarp without a warp field.
My crazy, convoluted pet idea there that I expressed recently on the forums was perhaps that such a blast could subject everything it touches to something akin to infinite time dilation. That isn't supported by any hard fact but is a wild conjecture.
And the idea there would be that thousands of years (or perhaps even a literal eternity) passed on Romulus in what may have been seconds or hours for us. Which could have all kinds of fun implications.
I dunno. A major fault with your speculation is how much it contradicts what Hakeev told us. He certainly believed he was in contact with Iconians. He took orders from someone he believed to be Iconians.
And whoever these people are, they did help fight off the Borg.
I guess waiting 2 years for the Rocket to reach the star, then 8 minutes for the light to stop, and then another 8 months or so for the shockwave to reach the planet would be kind of boring wouldn't it? :P
Actually, I think the scene itself was portrayed realistically. Ships travel faster than the speed of light so I don't think a missile traveling to the sun in a few seconds is unrealistic. After all, Worf did say he could not necessarily shoot it down in time. It was a G type or similar star based on its color, so about eight minutes is right, which were obviously not shown for dramatic reasons.
I doubt there would be a "shockwave" in the sense you are thinking about, since the interstellar medium is so sparse and the speed of sound so slow in space. What would actually happen is pretty unclear, but I imagine there would be three possibilities:
1) A mini-supernovae where the outer envelope and maybe even the core fly outward. This would produce a huge amount of lethal radiation as well as subatomic particles ejected at near the speed of light. I doubt it would be enough to tear apart the planet, but probably could kill everyone on it.
2) A planetary-nebulae type ejection of the atmosphere. This might create enough radiation to kill people and it would leave behind a white dwarf.
The really egregious physics problem here is that even in a supernovae, which the star was probably too small to undergo, only a small percentage of the star's matter is converted to energy. Even if the star blew apart completely, like was shown on screen, the mass of the star is still there and it probably has not moved enough in a few minutes to alter the path of the ribbon. Even more egregious, the light we see from the sun comes from the thermal energy of the outer envelope. We only see to the opacity depth. Stopping nuclear fusion in a star would not make the envelope dim visibly for a long time. In fact, it very well might make the star very much brighter from the thermal energy of gravitational collapse. If the star blew apart of exposed its interior, which is much hotter than the envelope, it would look even brighter.
If nuclear fusion stopped in the star, there would either be no visible effect or it would look brighter.
What would actually happen is pretty unclear, but I imagine there would be three possibilities:
1) A mini-supernovae where the outer envelope and maybe even the core fly outward. This would produce a huge amount of lethal radiation as well as subatomic particles ejected at near the speed of light. I doubt it would be enough to tear apart the planet, but probably could kill everyone on it.
2) A planetary-nebulae type ejection of the atmosphere. This might create enough radiation to kill people and it would leave behind a white dwarf.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I was going to put collapse into a helium white dwarf, but I decided that was redundant with the creation of a planetary nebulae.
EDIT: Actually, the more that I think about it, the more ridiculous I feel even discussing it. To the best of my knowledge, stopping nuclear fusion in a main sequence star is impossible, since even if Harry Potter whipped out his wand and sprayed his fairy dust on the star and stopped fusion, all that would happen would be that the core would begin to collapse and that collapse would reignite the fusion.
And I would imagine even if the magic somehow caused the fusion to "stay stopped", all that would happen would be an abbreviated star death. Low mass stars would shuffle off their envelope and leave a hydrogen/helium white dwarf. High mass stars would explode in a violent supernova and leave a neutron star or black hole.
We really need to know what Taris was trying to do or at least learn that she had gone mad like Soren.
Well... if I was an Undine infiltrator that had taken Taris place, blowing up the entire Milky Way in a chain warp supernova reaction would solve most of my "borg" and "invaders to fluidic space" problems with little consequences for my home. We all know how protective of their home they are...
Perhaps the "Iconian" plot to involve the Undine into the affairs of the galaxy as agents of chaos had an unintended consequence or two.
Why Hobbus? Well most of the materials for the project were there and readily available.
So if Taris just disappeared in a flash and the Feds believe it to be Iconian somehow, then it makes me wonder if what they used was a Gateway or something else. We know that they had perfected teleportation technology to the point where they never really needed ships anymore but in all the times we've seen a Gateway, there is always a device on one end that sends you somewhere else. Have they ever shown opening a portal and then having someone come from the other side? There have been a few alien species that have been shown to have technology like that.
Have they ever shown someone coming from the other side of a gateless portal? No, but how do we know it was impossible to go back through?
I see the Iconian portals like the Stargate (Stargate series). You have Stargates connecting to one location to another, but without the dialing device, you couldn't return. But highly advanced civilizations had remotes where you didn't need the dialing devices.
Similarly, if the Iconian portals without another gate is a 1-way trip, then they are at a major disadvantage. Like the gate in Fluidic space, if they were discovered before they completed their gate, then surely they would've been goners and their plan ruined.
So it's logical to assume they have a way to reopen a portal with advanced technology without the need for another gate. Now if the gate needs to be on from a origin source to their location, well that's up for someone to determine.
What would anyone (even the Iconians) have to gain by blowing up Hobus? What was the intented outcome? Did they achieve it? Did good-ol' Spock thwart the intended outcome in some way?
If someone had they power, would they blow up the Sun knowing that it would destroy Earth? Is that rational behavior? Who blows up their home star? Sure Soren blew up Armargosa, but he was a madman that wanted to get to the Nexus. If Taris blew up Hobus, what was her goal? Was she crazy?
I suppose something similar happened with Changeling Bashir, but again the goal there was to blow up the Bajoran star to take out the FED/KDF/ROM Fleet opposing the Dominion. If the goal here was to take out the Romulan Fleet, it sure didn't do a very good job.
We really need to know what Taris was trying to do or at least learn that she had gone mad like Soren.
Thats how I see Hobus, the Iconains promised Taris and her followers great rewards for temporarily sacrificing their Empire to destroy the Federation and the Klingon Empire. And once the dust settled, their territory, became Romulan Territory.
But who's to say the Iconians would honor that deal?
EDIT: Actually, the more that I think about it, the more ridiculous I feel even discussing it. To the best of my knowledge, stopping nuclear fusion in a main sequence star is impossible, since even if Harry Potter whipped out his wand and sprayed his fairy dust on the star and stopped fusion, all that would happen would be that the core would begin to collapse and that collapse would reignite the fusion.
I agree. I can never figure out why people try to defend Generations.
I agree. I can never figure out why people try to defend Generations.
In terms of Star Trek and scientific plausibility, that is hardly even close to the worst offender.
Star Trek had two movies about time travel. One of them is scientifically plausible. The other, like most Star Trek episodes about time travel, is not. And do not even get me started on JJ Trek.
Regarding Taris' apparent madness, I've noted that people exposed to these gates TEND to go nuts or make wild leaps.
The two times we saw Jem'Hadar rebel were around Iconian gates. Hakeev wasn't exactly the portrait of sanity.
And as I noted in my Foundry mission on the subject, Picard started behaving erratically as soon as he was around the gate. He leapt to the assumption that Iconians were innocent. Within a few episodes, he's taunting Q into introducing them to the Borg. This is in pretty sharp contrast with the boring but level Picard of the first season and a half and it surprises people he encounters, like Norah Satie (who assigned him to the Enterprise).
There's evidence of something neurologically off about him from that point. Q wasn't terribly interested in Picard until his contact with the gate. (Q was more interested in Riker in the first two Q episodes.) The Borg gave Picard special treatment. The Resikaan Probe somehow homed in on and targeted Picard despite being from an otherwise primitive culture, which almost makes Picard seem like a homing beacon.
I looked back through the Q episodes and there's a surprising amount of things that can be read on multiple levels. Q warns Picard about dangers "out there" after Picard meets the Borg but we don't know if the warning is solely about the Borg. Q alludes to "your grand destiny" a few times, which may or may not be singling Picard out. And then, try watching "All Good Things" once you've had a taste of the conspiracy Kool Aid and consider that Q might have influenced the whole thing to point out that:
A) There's something neurologically special about Picard that allows him to embrace the paradox.
To point a big red neon sign at Picard's apparent Irumodic Syndrome (which Crusher detects traces of only after Q's whole prodding), a hereditary defect that Picard has no family history of.
Also, look at Picard's increasingly erratic behavior. He goes from a stoic, staid man of science who is initially at peace over his deassimilation to a vengeful "unstable element" that Starfleet tries to keep busy with odd jobs, the first to resign his commission over a settler relocation on the Ba'ku planet (despite having argued the opposite side of that exact issue before), and then personally going on joyrides in the ARGO.
There are real production reasons for most of this. I'm not saying it was planned and much stemmed from Patrick Stewart's script input increasing over time. But when you lay the whole thing out, there's a pattern that fits.
Also, not only does he get more reckless over time but it all pretty much starts with the episode where he encounters the gate (Contagion).
Two episodes after that, he encounters a yet unexplained mentally unstable counterpart of himself from six hours in the future.
Four episodes later, he commits his first of many Prime Directive breeches in a short span (which is brought up at Norah Satie's witch hunt in The Drumhead but never really addressed.)
Five episodes later, he dares Q to show him something humanity isn't ready for and meets the Borg.
Six episodes later, his artificial heart malfunctions.
Eight episodes later, he goes on a date with Lwaxana Troi. Note that from this point on, telepaths and empaths all pretty much find Picard irresistable.
Completely mundane. Until looked at a certain way.
Also of note perhaps is that Data and the Enterprise were both shutting down due to the Iconian computer virus. But Picard didn't.
And on top of that, if you count Picard as unstable from his gate exposure on, you may also notice that everyone else who becomes noticeably unstable is cybernetic or has mechanical devices affixed to their body. Two Jem'Hadar (their feeding apparatus and possibly their shrouds). Hakeev (Borg implants). We don't know about Taris but as a Tal Shiar operative, she could be "chipped."
So say the Iconian computer virus does... interesting things to cyborgs.
And then note the Borg getting progressively weaker after assimilating Picard.
All circumstantial. All rather nutty. But just throwing speculation out there. If Picard's neurological system became a carrier for the Iconian Computer Virus via his artificial heart, you have some weird possibilities.
Comments
don't get too excited; it's probably going to end up being nothing more than a teaser
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
7 days is nothing, given there's gonna be one "cryptic" picture released with the planned date of release for the next FE. Could be another CD, if they're really confident in their work.
I guess more likely is they'll keep it as "May" though and just confirm it's an FE and give it a name.
What's really bad is still over 17 days for GoT...
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
He didn't use a formula, he linked to a formula thats part of the explaination of why the star wouldn't go boom.
And I'm pretty sure scientists can't calculate the effects of a fictional item. :rolleyes:
In 2009-2010, NASA used Supercomputers to model various Supernova's and the majority of the models collapsed upon themselves without an explosion.
The only way you could possibly get a Supernova is if the devices were used on a large mass such as a Supergiant or a Hypergiant. And the nearest Supergiant is Canpus, which is 310 Light years away and the nearest Hypergiant is P Cygni, which his 5000 to 6000 Light years away. Both these stars are way outside of Federation, Klingon, or Romulan space. So unless the Tox Uthat does more than just inhibit nuclear reactions, a star is just going to go poof. Just like what Dr. Stapelfeld said in his reply.
Which means the Tox Uthat isn't the same Iconian device that caused the Hobus Supernova, since the two effectively have opposite affects - the Uthat turns off stars, while the Iconian one supercharges them.
If you want to prove that it would cause a supernova, then by all means get yourself a PH.D. in Stellar Astropyhsics or hire an Astrophysicist, borrow a Supercomputer, and have fun modeling. :P
If you must know, all I did was link him to the Uthat on Memory Alpha, asked him what would happen if this device halted nuclear fusion within a star. That was it.
Since all we know about the Uthat is that it was from the future and it inhibited nuclear reactions within a star, nothing else could be said that could've changed the response. Like not knowing the details of how fast the Uthat works. He just gave us his professional response what happens if a star's nuclear reactions suddenly stopped.
My character Tsin'xing
Yes. I come to the same conclusion about his assumptions. Because if the suspension of nuclear reaction of the star was not ongoing, you still have the collapse of the star and jump starting fusion again. That would be much worse then just shutting the star off entirely.
If the temperature in the core gets high enough, it may start the helium cycle. And they could start hydrogen fusion near the core. That would push the star into a Red Giant or possibly through off it's outer shells. It's not a nova, but it's not a good thing for the local area around the star.
Yes. I reached the same conclusion about it assumptions. But if the nuclear reactions are not stopped entire, that could be even worse.
The star would still continue to collapse and nuclear reactions would start up again. If the temperate in the core got hot enough to start the helium cycle, that would cause the hydrogen near the core to start fusing. And that would cause the star develop into a Red Giant and possibley through off it's outer layers. It's not a nova, but still not a good thing for the local area near the star.
Which off course we'll never know. :P
Btw.: If the Tox Uthat were to have an effect resulting in that Kelvin-Helmholtz mechanism, then I fail to see how it could be used as weapon against any warp capable civilization (slow cooling of the star taking millions of years seems like plenty time to take action, or you know, run).
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
My character Tsin'xing
What? Break the laws of space/time? :rolleyes::D
My character Tsin'xing
That's not faster than light? :rolleyes:
So if Taris just disappeared in a flash and the Feds believe it to be Iconian somehow, then it makes me wonder if what they used was a Gateway or something else. We know that they had perfected teleportation technology to the point where they never really needed ships anymore but in all the times we've seen a Gateway, there is always a device on one end that sends you somewhere else. Have they ever shown opening a portal and then having someone come from the other side? There have been a few alien species that have been shown to have technology like that.
And as far as Taris and Sela seeing eye-to-eye, I highly doubt that.
What would anyone (even the Iconians) have to gain by blowing up Hobus? What was the intented outcome? Did they achieve it? Did good-ol' Spock thwart the intended outcome in some way?
If someone had they power, would they blow up the Sun knowing that it would destroy Earth? Is that rational behavior? Who blows up their home star? Sure Soren blew up Armargosa, but he was a madman that wanted to get to the Nexus. If Taris blew up Hobus, what was her goal? Was she crazy?
I suppose something similar happened with Changeling Bashir, but again the goal there was to blow up the Bajoran star to take out the FED/KDF/ROM Fleet opposing the Dominion. If the goal here was to take out the Romulan Fleet, it sure didn't do a very good job.
We really need to know what Taris was trying to do or at least learn that she had gone mad like Soren.
If you want continuity and canon, this is the only thing that's been consistent over five decades.
Guess that depends on how Star Trek defines a "subspace shockwave".
But Subspace shock waves only occur under special circumstances.That's why Hobus was so weird wasn't it?
ahhhhhhh ...subspace
Trek would be very boring if we saw what went on while they were traveling between worlds, there is only so much small talk.
Data: course plotted sir, we will arrive in 20 hours
Picard: good......soo anything new guys.
Data: ship status is green
Picard: so Data hows trying to be human going
Data: okay
Picard: umm ok, so Consular you and Riker huh? how was that?
Troi: he left me waiting at a waterfall.
Picard: TRIBBLE this, I'll be in my ready room taking a nap, wake me when we get there.
I assumed it was to clear the galaxy of lesser organisms that had taken root, like setting off a bug bomb. If we take Spock at his word, it was a threat to the whole galaxy and seemed to be a shockwave traveling at warp that caused other stars to trigger the same way.
Although perhaps if I wanted to get novel with Trek lore, maybe the goal was something like breaking the barrier around the galactic rim. Although the question then becomes why detonate the initial blast so far away. Another possibility would be another attempt to reroute a body like the Nexus. A third possibility as I suggested before is that objects hit by the blast might be affected in unusual ways that we haven't thought to investigate. We are talking about a nuclear blast that somehow grows in intensity as the blast radius expands, traveling at WARP SPEED.
That's the part I keep coming back to. It's an explosion traveling at warp or even transwarp without a warp field.
My crazy, convoluted pet idea there that I expressed recently on the forums was perhaps that such a blast could subject everything it touches to something akin to infinite time dilation. That isn't supported by any hard fact but is a wild conjecture.
And the idea there would be that thousands of years (or perhaps even a literal eternity) passed on Romulus in what may have been seconds or hours for us. Which could have all kinds of fun implications.
I dunno. A major fault with your speculation is how much it contradicts what Hakeev told us. He certainly believed he was in contact with Iconians. He took orders from someone he believed to be Iconians.
And whoever these people are, they did help fight off the Borg.
Actually, I think the scene itself was portrayed realistically. Ships travel faster than the speed of light so I don't think a missile traveling to the sun in a few seconds is unrealistic. After all, Worf did say he could not necessarily shoot it down in time. It was a G type or similar star based on its color, so about eight minutes is right, which were obviously not shown for dramatic reasons.
I doubt there would be a "shockwave" in the sense you are thinking about, since the interstellar medium is so sparse and the speed of sound so slow in space. What would actually happen is pretty unclear, but I imagine there would be three possibilities:
1) A mini-supernovae where the outer envelope and maybe even the core fly outward. This would produce a huge amount of lethal radiation as well as subatomic particles ejected at near the speed of light. I doubt it would be enough to tear apart the planet, but probably could kill everyone on it.
2) A planetary-nebulae type ejection of the atmosphere. This might create enough radiation to kill people and it would leave behind a white dwarf.
The really egregious physics problem here is that even in a supernovae, which the star was probably too small to undergo, only a small percentage of the star's matter is converted to energy. Even if the star blew apart completely, like was shown on screen, the mass of the star is still there and it probably has not moved enough in a few minutes to alter the path of the ribbon. Even more egregious, the light we see from the sun comes from the thermal energy of the outer envelope. We only see to the opacity depth. Stopping nuclear fusion in a star would not make the envelope dim visibly for a long time. In fact, it very well might make the star very much brighter from the thermal energy of gravitational collapse. If the star blew apart of exposed its interior, which is much hotter than the envelope, it would look even brighter.
If nuclear fusion stopped in the star, there would either be no visible effect or it would look brighter.
three possibilities, yet only 2 are listed
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I was going to put collapse into a helium white dwarf, but I decided that was redundant with the creation of a planetary nebulae.
EDIT: Actually, the more that I think about it, the more ridiculous I feel even discussing it. To the best of my knowledge, stopping nuclear fusion in a main sequence star is impossible, since even if Harry Potter whipped out his wand and sprayed his fairy dust on the star and stopped fusion, all that would happen would be that the core would begin to collapse and that collapse would reignite the fusion.
And I would imagine even if the magic somehow caused the fusion to "stay stopped", all that would happen would be an abbreviated star death. Low mass stars would shuffle off their envelope and leave a hydrogen/helium white dwarf. High mass stars would explode in a violent supernova and leave a neutron star or black hole.
Well... if I was an Undine infiltrator that had taken Taris place, blowing up the entire Milky Way in a chain warp supernova reaction would solve most of my "borg" and "invaders to fluidic space" problems with little consequences for my home. We all know how protective of their home they are...
Perhaps the "Iconian" plot to involve the Undine into the affairs of the galaxy as agents of chaos had an unintended consequence or two.
Why Hobbus? Well most of the materials for the project were there and readily available.
Have they ever shown someone coming from the other side of a gateless portal? No, but how do we know it was impossible to go back through?
I see the Iconian portals like the Stargate (Stargate series). You have Stargates connecting to one location to another, but without the dialing device, you couldn't return. But highly advanced civilizations had remotes where you didn't need the dialing devices.
Similarly, if the Iconian portals without another gate is a 1-way trip, then they are at a major disadvantage. Like the gate in Fluidic space, if they were discovered before they completed their gate, then surely they would've been goners and their plan ruined.
So it's logical to assume they have a way to reopen a portal with advanced technology without the need for another gate. Now if the gate needs to be on from a origin source to their location, well that's up for someone to determine.
Always saw Sela as a strategist that waits for a particular time to strike. How else she went from being in trouble to Empress in a short time?
Thats how I see Hobus, the Iconains promised Taris and her followers great rewards for temporarily sacrificing their Empire to destroy the Federation and the Klingon Empire. And once the dust settled, their territory, became Romulan Territory.
But who's to say the Iconians would honor that deal?
But we did have episodes about that. :P
I agree. I can never figure out why people try to defend Generations.
Please don't write in a Borg connection.
In terms of Star Trek and scientific plausibility, that is hardly even close to the worst offender.
Star Trek had two movies about time travel. One of them is scientifically plausible. The other, like most Star Trek episodes about time travel, is not. And do not even get me started on JJ Trek.
The two times we saw Jem'Hadar rebel were around Iconian gates. Hakeev wasn't exactly the portrait of sanity.
And as I noted in my Foundry mission on the subject, Picard started behaving erratically as soon as he was around the gate. He leapt to the assumption that Iconians were innocent. Within a few episodes, he's taunting Q into introducing them to the Borg. This is in pretty sharp contrast with the boring but level Picard of the first season and a half and it surprises people he encounters, like Norah Satie (who assigned him to the Enterprise).
There's evidence of something neurologically off about him from that point. Q wasn't terribly interested in Picard until his contact with the gate. (Q was more interested in Riker in the first two Q episodes.) The Borg gave Picard special treatment. The Resikaan Probe somehow homed in on and targeted Picard despite being from an otherwise primitive culture, which almost makes Picard seem like a homing beacon.
I looked back through the Q episodes and there's a surprising amount of things that can be read on multiple levels. Q warns Picard about dangers "out there" after Picard meets the Borg but we don't know if the warning is solely about the Borg. Q alludes to "your grand destiny" a few times, which may or may not be singling Picard out. And then, try watching "All Good Things" once you've had a taste of the conspiracy Kool Aid and consider that Q might have influenced the whole thing to point out that:
A) There's something neurologically special about Picard that allows him to embrace the paradox.
Also, look at Picard's increasingly erratic behavior. He goes from a stoic, staid man of science who is initially at peace over his deassimilation to a vengeful "unstable element" that Starfleet tries to keep busy with odd jobs, the first to resign his commission over a settler relocation on the Ba'ku planet (despite having argued the opposite side of that exact issue before), and then personally going on joyrides in the ARGO.
There are real production reasons for most of this. I'm not saying it was planned and much stemmed from Patrick Stewart's script input increasing over time. But when you lay the whole thing out, there's a pattern that fits.
Two episodes after that, he encounters a yet unexplained mentally unstable counterpart of himself from six hours in the future.
Four episodes later, he commits his first of many Prime Directive breeches in a short span (which is brought up at Norah Satie's witch hunt in The Drumhead but never really addressed.)
Five episodes later, he dares Q to show him something humanity isn't ready for and meets the Borg.
Six episodes later, his artificial heart malfunctions.
Eight episodes later, he goes on a date with Lwaxana Troi. Note that from this point on, telepaths and empaths all pretty much find Picard irresistable.
Completely mundane. Until looked at a certain way.
Also of note perhaps is that Data and the Enterprise were both shutting down due to the Iconian computer virus. But Picard didn't.
And on top of that, if you count Picard as unstable from his gate exposure on, you may also notice that everyone else who becomes noticeably unstable is cybernetic or has mechanical devices affixed to their body. Two Jem'Hadar (their feeding apparatus and possibly their shrouds). Hakeev (Borg implants). We don't know about Taris but as a Tal Shiar operative, she could be "chipped."
So say the Iconian computer virus does... interesting things to cyborgs.
And then note the Borg getting progressively weaker after assimilating Picard.
All circumstantial. All rather nutty. But just throwing speculation out there. If Picard's neurological system became a carrier for the Iconian Computer Virus via his artificial heart, you have some weird possibilities.