Im sorry but you guys are blaming the ship / captain class. Look at your builds first. My fleet has sci's in sci ships that pull 11k dps in stfs. We have engineers in cruisers that pull 10k. We have escorts that break 13k. Ok yeah its higher. But at that level does it even matter? Were talking about a group of blended classes and ships that regularly knocks out infected elite in 4-5 minutes. We generally are under 1/3 of the time the optional gives you.
If you say sci's and eng's captains and ships are TRIBBLE its because YOU arent using them correctly.
To many people put the blame of their inadequate builds on their ships and class they chose. Im sorry but its the build pure and simple. Yes you probably wont get 11k out of an intrepid but you wont get 13k out of a patrol escort either. Each ship has its limitations and advantages and for sure some are better than others but each class and each ship type has its stand outs. Maybe put the work in and stop complaining that YOU cant do what someone else is.
Ive probably respeced my captain 20 times to get the build that I run now. I change the boff skills weekly looking for an edge. Ive put the time in to get where Im at and Im sick to death of people complaining that as soon as they hit level 50 that someone else is OP.
Read this post and you can start to see just how little your ship or gear means. Learn to spend your captain points properly and set up your boffs properly. Then get gear that synergizes with what you have.
I'm sorry but your use of a carrier invalidates your solo-ing of ISE as an argument when discussing Fed cruisers... do the same in a fed cruiser and I will acknowledge your point.
you completely missed the point of the original post. and that carrier infected elite solo in was a ship available to anyone. how it has any bearing on how op escorts are is beyond me.
My point is any class in a cruiser sci ship or escort can pull plenty of damage with a proper build. that carrier is an example of a very over the top build with hundreds of millions of ec in gear and doffs. Ive seen people pull 7-8k in a cruiser with green quality gear. So telling me cruisers cant keep up to escorts is just passing the buck on poor builds / skill at the game.
The number 1 reason most cruiser and sci captains do terrible damage is they dont understand how weapon power effects their beams. put 6 points in weapon performance and run emergency to weapons. watch your damage double. dont completely ignore your tac skill points. at the very least boost all skills that effect your beams and stop relying on torp builds. I have never seen a torp build that stacks up against a cruiser with a strong fire at will build.
If you think soloing infected is a standard every ship should be able to pull off well... The dread carrier is probably the most powerful pve ship in the game. Not all ships are created equal. Some cruiser and sci ships are meant for support in pvp. Some are just monsters that punch out huge damage in pve. Not all ships are meant to be dps. Stop pushing the game into the mold you want it to be and play it for what it is.
Are all ships balanced? no. Find me an MMO where everything is balanced... any mmo... ive played about 20. No matter what something will overpower something else.
Does that mean science ships and cruisers dont have a role in this game? Hell no. Get 4 of your friends together and setup a pvp premade team with all escorts. You will lose every match you enter.
Look at that original post and take a look at the damage log I posted. Stormy pulled that dps in an intrepid with common mk x gear. It CAN be done. People that cant do it are doing something wrong in their builds. It could be power levels, doffs, boffs or just your skill points. Work with people that out damage you and stop blaming your ship.
For instance, the Jem'Hadar Bug just so happens to have an excellent console and BOff layout on top of solid (for an Escort) hull strength. There's no real downside to the ship. Compare that to the poor Aquarius, which doesn't seem to have an upside (other than it kinda looks neat).
Ok yeah this is a very powerful ship. But its still an escort with fairly weak shields that dies quite easily without support. Hull doesnt mean much in this game. Shields are what keeps you alive.
Similarly, some well-built Cruisers (I for one really enjoy the way I've built my Assault Cruiser Refit, and will even more when I get my Fleet version) benefit from their particular combinations of layouts compared to others (such as the Refit Galaxy). However, this is only really because there are no consoles that fit into Engineering or Science slots that make a large impact on damage production.
The galaxy refit can be one of the best healing and support ships in the game. Run hive elite with a threat control build with alot of healing. Your team mates will die alot less since you are absorbing most of the damage. You are trying to push ships into a role they were never meant for. The assault cruiser is for sure a dps style cruiser and can pull escort level dps with the right build.
The same goes for Science ships. Hands down, my Vesta (Tactical) is the most damaging Science ship I've ever flown, and alongside the Wells, there aren't really any reasons to fly other Science ships beyond aesthetics or personal challenge.
There are plenty of science ships that are just not meant for dps. Infact the ability of the vesta and wells are there to fill in a hole where dps was lacking for sci captains. Science captains are the backbone of any good pvp team. Without their healing and debuffing and especially subnuke your team will never reach the levels of high end pvp.
The imbalances in this game aren't class wide, but make themselves most known with particular ships within each class: there is really only one real problem with balancing ships:
Tactical consoles are far and away more useful to have in abundance/i] than Engineering or (and especially) Science consoles. While having a few consoles to boost shields and BOff powers do have an impact, it is much smaller than loading on a bunch of matching Tactical consoles for your chosen damage type. Why? Because of the stated self-reliance of all classes of ships. When all ships can be self-reliant to a certain threshold of survivability (defense), then deciding factor is offense. While this may inherently seem to give only Escorts an advantage, that's not necessarily true. It only gives Escorts that meet this threshold of survivability, yet have the ability to expand upon their offense an advantage. The same goes for Cruisers and Science vessels. However, Cruisers and Science vessels often have less of an ability to expand upon their offense due to usually having a smaller number of Tactical consoles and nothing more.
For a Cruiser or Science vessel to be able to build up enough damage, they have to be able to stack damage bonuses on top of their class-specific bonuses (Cruisers have their large number of weapon slots, as well as an overall power boost, Science ships mainly have their ability to debuff enemies on top of their slow-gaining single-target Sensor Analysis buff). Barring all console boosts, Escorts, Cruisers, and Science ships really only run a gamut of burst versus sustained damage, none of which is particularly overwhelming.
What players have learned are some of the vitals of what makes a good build, and one unwritten law is to grab 3 or more Tactical consoles that boost the primary damage type of your ship. While this is trivial for any Escort to do, Most Cruisers and Science Vessels are lucky to have 3 Tactical slots total. Many only have 2.
One of the simplest ways to give back some balance across ships is to have consoles in all categories that boost damage. The only downside to this is that will give very little reason for any ships to use any consoles beyond a very small set (assuming all players want to min/max for damage).
One more possible suggestion only affects Science vessels: I think Aux power should affect Sensor Analysis, not so much in the total buff it provides, but in how quickly the curve ramps up (it is a currently linear 3.33% maxing out at 33.3%). This is to help counter the fact that the other Science inherent ability of Subsystem Targetting does little to improve overall damage.
Tac consoles are meant to boost direct damage. Throw a gravity well on a tac cube with alot of points in particle generators. Thats huge damage from a sci skill being buffed with sci consoles. Or use graviton and hold a group of spheres together and hit them with fire at will and a high yield torp. Stop fighting against the mechanics and learn how they work together and you will find all of a sudden your low dps class is a huge help to your team. Just because you arent topping your damage meter doesnt mean you arent usefull or important.
Also back to my original point... even if you dont want to play support to the tacs... scis and engineers CAN and DO pull 9k+ dps in my fleet without using escorts. So Im sorry but buffing the hell out of sci and eng consoles because you havent worked your way to those styles of builds is not the solution.
the dps you can get fighting npcs is pointless, shooting other player ships, that are loaded with the equipment and passives that make them invincible to ALL pressure dps are the problem. in pvp only spike and striking between buffs gets kills, a bunch of science debuffs help a lot too.
there is to much damage mitigation out there now, it directly works against pressure, or cruiser damage as you might know it better. cruisers having closer to escort damage, i say why not, thats all that maters in pve anyway. at the same time they buff it for pve, it would be buffed in pvp as well, were it is actually needed. because right now non escorts are dealing a net of 0 damage to anyone they shoot at, because they deal damage gradually, not in chunks of spike.
escorts don't need a nerf, like the title of this thread is implying, all other ships need a change in the way they deal damage, to be more escort like. my idea to fix this is to change beam array and single cannons to fire 2 times per cycle, not 4. it would thus be delivered more like a escort delivers damage, thats how you can get around all the passives nullifying pressure. those passives and maco and fleet elite equipment and doffs are never going away, that means pressure will never work again.
the passives heal gradually, so damage that comes gradually is directly countered. thats the difference between pve and pvp, targets in pve have no regeneration or resistance, but massive hitpoints, its only a mater of time till anything dies. in pvp ships have small amounts of hit points, massive resistance, and massive heals and regeneration. its not just a mater of time till someone dies there, at all.
so cruisers are not fine, they do nothing in pvp anymore. and in pve, theres no reason 1 ship type should do more dps then another, dps is all that maters there. be it in peeks and valleys from escorts, from exotic means by sci ships, or from steady pressure from cruisers. what ever original intent needs to be discarded now, the power creep has changed the entire dynamic of everything, and the only thing that ended up marginalized is cruiser damage effectiveness in pvp.
they do have some resistance (at least, the borg do), and the same basic hull repair players have; that's why, when fighting NPCs, you'll sometimes see their HP total jump up 3%
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
they do have some resistance (at least, the borg do), and the same basic hull repair players have; that's why, when fighting NPCs, you'll sometimes see their HP total jump up 3%
as soon as an npc has an average hull regeneration of 200%, and 60% shield resistance, then you can say 'not entirely true' to me
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Um lovely. The point he was trying to make is that NPC ships have nowhere near the resistance and/or regen rate that player ships do in PVP.
I've dabbled in PVP and I've seen the power creep and felt it first hand. If I'm engaged by another cruiser (with a decent build and skills) the battle is a pointless draw. We simply don't do enough damage. In fact it's nearly impossible to even penetrate each others shields. Healing abilities, certain gear, and healing passives just outpace damage output. An escort on the other hand (particularly a tac escort) can buff up and unleash an incredible amount of damage over a very short time and penetrate a cruisers shields with relative ease. Burst damage wins and the moderate sustained damage of a cruiser is almost pointless at this point.
The number 1 reason most cruiser and sci captains do terrible damage is they dont understand how weapon power effects their beams. put 6 points in weapon performance and run emergency to weapons. watch your damage double. dont completely ignore your tac skill points. at the very least boost all skills that effect your beams and stop relying on torp builds. I have never seen a torp build that stacks up against a cruiser with a strong fire at will build.
You mistake me for someone who doesn't know their way around...
I have a Tac/scort that can carry 2 people and itself through a CSE if I want to while having the capacity to tank anything the game throws at it (other than those 1/2/3 shot spike torps that kill you regardless of HP or resists or ship/captain type), I have an engineer in an Excelsior that puts out around 5k DPS over an STF (when last I had it parsed) and tank anything WHILE throwing heals out to the team. I have managed to double that with an aux2bat build but the defence on it was terrible and thats a beam boat. (I'll get both ships in both configs parsed again soon)
The one I can't get working is sci but I'm working on that one...
The point is that in a fair game the tac/scort would have its damage output and if it had 80% of the eng cruisers tanking then the eng cruiser would have its tanking and 80% of the escorts damage but instead we see escorts getting all their damage with 80% of the cruisers tanking and the eng cruiser only gets 50% (maybe) of the escorts damage...
I'm not the incompetent fool you seem to think I am and sure the Jem dread is available to anyone... if they have stupid amounts of currency... meaning my previous point still stands
You mistake me for someone who doesn't know their way around...
I have a Tac/scort that can carry 2 people and itself through a CSE if I want to while having the capacity to tank anything the game throws at it (other than those 1/2/3 shot spike torps that kill you regardless of HP or resists or ship/captain type), I have an engineer in an Excelsior that puts out around 5k DPS over an STF (when last I had it parsed) and tank anything WHILE throwing heals out to the team. I have managed to double that with an aux2bat build but the defence on it was terrible and thats a beam boat. (I'll get both ships in both configs parsed again soon)
The one I can't get working is sci but I'm working on that one...
The point is that in a fair game the tac/scort would have its damage output and if it had 80% of the eng cruisers tanking then the eng cruiser would have its tanking and 80% of the escorts damage but instead we see escorts getting all their damage with 80% of the cruisers tanking and the eng cruiser only gets 50% (maybe) of the escorts damage...
I'm not the incompetent fool you seem to think I am and sure the Jem dread is available to anyone... if they have stupid amounts of currency... meaning my previous point still stands
yeah. beams benefit from auxtobat, and it is fine. but then you lose some other stuff. I am using now an auxtobat vesta, where the 6 beams (plasma, so I even get the plasma dmg bonuses, and the low weapon power usage from the romulan beam) of mine deal 6-7k dps in a round, and the rest 2k is done by my pets. what I sacrafice is basically all my sci powers in order for my beams to be powered (tho it is still a nicer dmg than most escorts have, and I like it, it is still very circumstancial for plasma).
what I think is the problem with beams above the weapon power drain, is the skills themselves. for BO, you need a skill that will push the power back a lot, so we are back to aux to bat again (and it is not enough to supply the power recharge constantly), and gives little back dmg wise. and what is also bad imo is FAW. it is too random, and not controlled enough. compared to CSV it is kinda useless. with CSV you can keep three targets under pressure. with FAW you are keeping the three targets the gate, and everything else within smelling range under pressure (its more of an annoyance for them, than pressure)
still lets first solve the power issue, and then move on to other things
There have been many threads on this but mums the word at PW. Every patch makes escorts more and more powerful and cruisers and science ships more and more obsolete. I rarely ever see a science ship anymore and it seems that the only people that play cruisers are those that have sentimental attachments to them (like me).
I was one of the originals that started this game on the first day and chose an engineer captain. Oh, that I had chosen a tac captain like 90% of players today are playing.
Tactical/escort captains have insane damage, healing, maneuverability, and survivability now. There is no upside to playing a cruiser and its a cold day in *&^*&* when you would play a science ship over an escort.
I dont need to go into specifics. There are more threads on this topic than you can shake a plasma injector at, but this needs to be addressed, soon.
Rebalance the ships- give them all roles once again. Nerf escorts, buff cruisers, and really buff science ships. It is desperately needed.
I'm not sure what game you're playing, but I see more Odysseys than any other ship in the game. I see a lot of Andorian ships too, but that that's to be expected from Cryptic's latest, greatest, ripoff. "There's a sucker born every minute", as P.T. Barnum once said. I can play through the whole game in any "basic", free, ship. Science, or otherwise.
pretty much, i don't see what the hullabaloo is all about.
You can use a free ship and be just as effective. They have plenty of consoles to boost damage and turn rate, the assim, the tachy, the zero point, the rule 62, all are universals and everyone can use them, damage will jump dramatically.
I also get the people who say that the hell of the npc's going up 3-5% is nothing but wouldn't that be comparative to their original HP? if their HP is 470000 then it goes up incrementally isn't that going to be far greater then the heal of the players who's is 47000?
But anywho, i think this game is way to balanced as it is there shouldn't be so much balance in a war game or there's no point. we all seem gray after that. I'm not the type of person that wants to be equal to anyone I want to be the best. I used to support this game and every since this issue with balance there is no such thing as best. People say pay to win, lol i say where? I've killed andorians, jdreads, wells and bugs with my mirror patrol escort. I feel like Alexander the great now... i just need to find a place to weep.
Maybe there needs to be more of a dichotomy between the ships, what is working for one seems to be harming the other... what a terrible place to live in. When we are all leaders then who will lead? When we are all equal then what will happen to innovation? To change? No reason to advance when we are all the same gray blobs.
No matter what you try to build or what scheme you come up with talented players will find a way to take advantage of it, so by fixing one problem you will indeed create for yourself 2 and I for one no matter what will always be op if it's with escorts or not, beams or not, i will learn to make the game work for me and that's that.
the dps you can get fighting npcs is pointless, shooting other player ships, that are loaded with the equipment and passives that make them invincible to ALL pressure dps are the problem. in pvp only spike and striking between buffs gets kills, a bunch of science debuffs help a lot too.
there is to much damage mitigation out there now, it directly works against pressure, or cruiser damage as you might know it better. cruisers having closer to escort damage, i say why not, thats all that maters in pve anyway. at the same time they buff it for pve, it would be buffed in pvp as well, were it is actually needed. because right now non escorts are dealing a net of 0 damage to anyone they shoot at, because they deal damage gradually, not in chunks of spike.
escorts don't need a nerf, like the title of this thread is implying, all other ships need a change in the way they deal damage, to be more escort like. my idea to fix this is to change beam array and single cannons to fire 2 times per cycle, not 4. it would thus be delivered more like a escort delivers damage, thats how you can get around all the passives nullifying pressure. those passives and maco and fleet elite equipment and doffs are never going away, that means pressure will never work again.
the passives heal gradually, so damage that comes gradually is directly countered. thats the difference between pve and pvp, targets in pve have no regeneration or resistance, but massive hitpoints, its only a mater of time till anything dies. in pvp ships have small amounts of hit points, massive resistance, and massive heals and regeneration. its not just a mater of time till someone dies there, at all.
so cruisers are not fine, they do nothing in pvp anymore. and in pve, theres no reason 1 ship type should do more dps then another, dps is all that maters there. be it in peeks and valleys from escorts, from exotic means by sci ships, or from steady pressure from cruisers. what ever original intent needs to be discarded now, the power creep has changed the entire dynamic of everything, and the only thing that ended up marginalized is cruiser damage effectiveness in pvp.
Your entire view of pvp is based on 1 on 1. PvP is all about team work. If you dont have a good healer (ours flies an oddy is and is damned near impossible to kill) you dont have a hope. Yes you need spike damage but you also need to time it with a subnuke. Our pvp team is made up of 2 tacs in escorts, 2 scis in sci ships and an engineer in a cruiser. So sure our cruiser isnt out there soloing everyone on the other team... but thats not the role we set him up for.
You mistake me for someone who doesn't know their way around...
I have a Tac/scort that can carry 2 people and itself through a CSE if I want to while having the capacity to tank anything the game throws at it (other than those 1/2/3 shot spike torps that kill you regardless of HP or resists or ship/captain type), I have an engineer in an Excelsior that puts out around 5k DPS over an STF (when last I had it parsed) and tank anything WHILE throwing heals out to the team. I have managed to double that with an aux2bat build but the defence on it was terrible and thats a beam boat. (I'll get both ships in both configs parsed again soon)
The one I can't get working is sci but I'm working on that one...
The point is that in a fair game the tac/scort would have its damage output and if it had 80% of the eng cruisers tanking then the eng cruiser would have its tanking and 80% of the escorts damage but instead we see escorts getting all their damage with 80% of the cruisers tanking and the eng cruiser only gets 50% (maybe) of the escorts damage...
I'm not the incompetent fool you seem to think I am and sure the Jem dread is available to anyone... if they have stupid amounts of currency... meaning my previous point still stands
I dont recall personally calling you out. It was a statement about players I see in pugs in general. Also the fleet excelsior is capable of 11k dps with a decent tank without use the aux to batteries build. Mine pulls about 9k but we have a fleet mate that gets 11k in his. I highly suggest that ship to any engineer that feels hes low on damage until you have access to a t5 ship yard for the t5 sovereign. Ive even had my galaxy class pulling 5k as a heal boat.
My point is alot of people under estimate skills that really effect damage and vastly underestimate what weapon power does for you. Get your weapon power up over 150 and watch your damage sky rocket. The soft cap is 125. The actual cap is about 160 and while cannons arent effected nearly as much over 130 power beams sure as hell are.
A properly setup cruiser can pull as much or more than most escort captains out there.
Beams take a completely different mind set than cannons do and people really need to look at power levels and accuracy over crit rate and damage.
yeah. beams benefit from auxtobat, and it is fine. but then you lose some other stuff. I am using now an auxtobat vesta, where the 6 beams (plasma, so I even get the plasma dmg bonuses, and the low weapon power usage from the romulan beam) of mine deal 6-7k dps in a round, and the rest 2k is done by my pets. what I sacrafice is basically all my sci powers in order for my beams to be powered (tho it is still a nicer dmg than most escorts have, and I like it, it is still very circumstancial for plasma).
what I think is the problem with beams above the weapon power drain, is the skills themselves. for BO, you need a skill that will push the power back a lot, so we are back to aux to bat again (and it is not enough to supply the power recharge constantly), and gives little back dmg wise. and what is also bad imo is FAW. it is too random, and not controlled enough. compared to CSV it is kinda useless. with CSV you can keep three targets under pressure. with FAW you are keeping the three targets the gate, and everything else within smelling range under pressure (its more of an annoyance for them, than pressure)
still lets first solve the power issue, and then move on to other things
FAW builds can be very effective. The issue is positioning. You need to be very aware of whats in range of your beams. I pull 11k+ with my faw builds on my klingon (yes the leech console adds quite a bit of that) and you suffer much less power drain than with BO builds. Also something to keep in mind is your shots continue to hit your primary target but you are also hitting everything else in range. In pvp a faw build with some sort of phaser proc weapon is amazing. Your harassment fire even at low power levels will still be subsystem procing everyone around you. In pve a faw build is great at killing probes or burning down spheres. The trick is to really have a strong tank and to make sure you arent in range of the gate. If I can do it in a carrier no cruiser captain should have a leg to stand on if it comes down to "my ship is too slow and turns like TRIBBLE to maintain possition".
Like my other posts in here have stated. Beam builds are scary as hell if set up properly. You must have a good tank build to back up all the agro you are going to get and you must watch what you are hitting.
pretty much, i don't see what the hullabaloo is all about.
You can use a free ship and be just as effective. They have plenty of consoles to boost damage and turn rate, the assim, the tachy, the zero point, the rule 62, all are universals and everyone can use them, damage will jump dramatically.
I also get the people who say that the hell of the npc's going up 3-5% is nothing but wouldn't that be comparative to their original HP? if their HP is 470000 then it goes up incrementally isn't that going to be far greater then the heal of the players who's is 47000?
But anywho, i think this game is way to balanced as it is there shouldn't be so much balance in a war game or there's no point. we all seem gray after that. I'm not the type of person that wants to be equal to anyone I want to be the best. I used to support this game and every since this issue with balance there is no such thing as best. People say pay to win, lol i say where? I've killed andorians, jdreads, wells and bugs with my mirror patrol escort. I feel like Alexander the great now... i just need to find a place to weep.
Maybe there needs to be more of a dichotomy between the ships, what is working for one seems to be harming the other... what a terrible place to live in. When we are all leaders then who will lead? When we are all equal then what will happen to innovation? To change? No reason to advance when we are all the same gray blobs.
No matter what you try to build or what scheme you come up with talented players will find a way to take advantage of it, so by fixing one problem you will indeed create for yourself 2 and I for one no matter what will always be op if it's with escorts or not, beams or not, i will learn to make the game work for me and that's that.
Can we be besties? If more people in this game had your outlook we would all be a lot happier. I started posting in here to try and get the same point across. I spend my time in this game trying to improve my build as much as I can. If I feel I've gotten as far as possible in a ship then I move on to another ship until something new comes out and then I go back to the first ship to see what else I can squeeze out of it.
K'urg (Vexashen) was a KDF tactical captain in a fleet Tor'Khat
Morcael (Me) was a KDF tactical captain in a Fleet Tor'Khat (and I had MK XI VR Plasma Beams)
Cutter was a Fed tactical captain in an Andorian Kumari
Martin Brody was Fed engineering captain in a Fleet Ambassador
Karn was a KDF tactical captain in a Fleet D7
So we had 3 cruisers with BEAMS doing more than 7K DPS and one breaking 15K+ dps.
Beams don't suck.
Oh and Feds BETTER get the plasmodic leech in the next cross-faction console.
Just saying.
Formerly Known as Protector from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
K'urg (Vexashen) was a KDF tactical captain in a fleet Tor'Khat
Morcael (Me) was a KDF tactical captain in a Fleet Tor'Khat (and I had MK XI VR Plasma Beams)
Cutter was a Fed tactical captain in an Andorian Kumari
Martin Brody was Fed engineering captain in a Fleet Ambassador
Karn was a KDF tactical captain in a Fleet D7
So we had 3 cruisers with BEAMS doing more than 7K DPS and one breaking 15K+ dps.
Beams don't suck.
Oh and Feds BETTER get the plasmodic leech in the next cross-faction console.
Just saying.
This is more the case of tactical debuffs...than beam performance.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
FAW builds can be very effective. The issue is positioning. You need to be very aware of whats in range of your beams. I pull 11k+ with my faw builds on my klingon (yes the leech console adds quite a bit of that) and you suffer much less power drain than with BO builds. Also something to keep in mind is your shots continue to hit your primary target but you are also hitting everything else in range. In pvp a faw build with some sort of phaser proc weapon is amazing. Your harassment fire even at low power levels will still be subsystem procing everyone around you. In pve a faw build is great at killing probes or burning down spheres. The trick is to really have a strong tank and to make sure you arent in range of the gate. If I can do it in a carrier no cruiser captain should have a leg to stand on if it comes down to "my ship is too slow and turns like TRIBBLE to maintain possition".
Like my other posts in here have stated. Beam builds are scary as hell if set up properly. You must have a good tank build to back up all the agro you are going to get and you must watch what you are hitting.
beam builds can be really good yeah. however there are not as many build options as with cannons. that is why I brought up the problem with boff skills too as beam builds require not only auxtobat or some form of power to weapons to be most effective, but they have lesser boff skills too.
faw is great, but not as controllable as scv, which makes it lesser in comparison in my eyes (and for that matter, in many situations not as useful as you cant stop it targeting something, that should not be targetted like another cube in hse or random unkillable targets, if they are in range).
lol people are always trying to change the games they should simply enjoy it for what it is.
Find your peace in the chaos, if being the best is too competitive then sit back and chillax, it's a one player game if you want it to be, you don't have to be billy badass in everything. Some people can and some people can't. You are only weak if you tell people you are, people don't generally know or remember.
With an escort running beams because i enjoy spreading misery I put out some amazing dps and it's not because it's an escort, the only thing that escorts do is add +15 to weapons that's not that much when you look at it, it's barely two beams firing in an arc. If you can't recreate 15+ anything in your sub system overlays then I'm very sure that something went wrong somewhere. Doffs, builds, Boffs, skills, and to a lesser extent equipment have to come together to make a player elite. Not ship. Crazy dps peoples, just crazy
Lol and the attack is called Beam Fire at Will, not Beam fire on my mark(s). Whenever you hear the term fire at will in any game, the unit isn't firing at one thing they are firing at everything so it is working as it should... even with it's horrible accuracy (since you are firing at random targets their is no way you are really aiming right? But then again their should be targeting computers....)
I just don't get why people are saying escorts are op. It can't be because of damage since players make choices of what skills to use to attack and defend, a ship cannot be op in this balanced game, can it tank, and attack? Yes. It's like an assassin class, you hit fast and hard and often. It's not the ship it's the weapons you mean are op right? Since escorts are really... well... nothing.
To me a vesta is op but no one seems to think so, so how can a ship designed to heal and kill like the Vesta not be op when a ship designed to simply kill like the escort classes are?
In the end the argument of one class being better then the other is moot. You make the decision to fly what you want and do what you want you shouldn't get mad at others for doing the same. Personally I don't mind players getting stronger, by learning to play the game better, begging for buffs from outside influences, or pleading for nerfs to players who are better suited, but i draw the line at balance. There should not be equality in a game that is supposed to be about war. a roman row ship should not be equal to an American carrier. It's asinine. No wonder they keep bringing out old ships and such and making them amazing since in the future a top of the line ship fresh of the drawing boards in this game will be worse then a ship that's already released thinks to this call for balance. I mean look at the 1000 day ship, top of the line my foot. When was it top of the line? 2 years ago? Wait.. it was released in october... oooooo. damn.
You guys might think that what you're doing is a good idea but in the end you are simply making a good game worse. People should see these glaring differences in ship classes not as obstacles but challenges and each ship should have it's place but in the end this is not a team game this is a single player doing 90% of stand alone type game play with 10% of it team play. You can't expect the people who play alone would like the idea of their ships being nerfed because 10-20 people think they should be. The other 100-200 people don't care at all. So you want to gimp someone to make yourself feel better about your ship or your choices.... that's kinda messed up. You need to exhaust every effort, every every every effort before you start to call for someone else to become weaker to make you feel stronger.
I especially love the fact that people always jump on the point and yell obscenities band wagon like the Dev's love escorts when you have zero proof of anything but you're inadequacies. You know nothing about these people other then the fact that they can't respond to your every beck and call so they must be bad guys. They don't work for your they work for a corporation that says i pay your bills so you will listen to me. Have you guys thought that it's not the devs that love escorts but about 60-70% of the player base? If that many people liked strawberry ice cream as a company that makes ice cream would you make less or more strawberry ice cream? So before you blame others you have to learn to blame yourselves.
Not saying you need to learn to play since their isn't much to learn just saying you need to learn to accept. If you are given the short end of the stick then take as much of the stick as you can. I don't notice players around me anyhow when i am playing so you could be the best and i'll still ignore you in an estf. Too busy doing my best to do my part to care what someone else is doing or outputting. When I see something or someone do a huge amount of dps I do not say, aww man that's not fair. I say, oooo that's sweet, i want it, and i go and get it and test it out. If it's not for me then meh, if it is then sweet.
I fly cruisers and my dps is fantastic I just happen to truly love my patrol escort and i'll fly it till the wings fall off or they upgrade the chimera, it's not my fault that a level 40 ship just happens to be the best ship in the game it just happened that way, and just as easily as people can tell me my choice of best escort is wrong is just as easy as I can say your ideas of op is wrong.
Lol and the attack is called Beam Fire at Will, not Beam fire on my mark(s). Whenever you hear the term fire at will in any game, the unit isn't firing at one thing they are firing at everything so it is working as it should... even with it's horrible accuracy (since you are firing at random targets their is no way you are really aiming right? But then again their should be targeting computers....)
.
I did not say it faw is bad. but compared to a cannon skill. well, it is lacking...
I just don't get why people are saying escorts are op. It can't be because of damage since players make choices of what skills to use to attack and defend, a ship cannot be op in this balanced game, can it tank, and attack? Yes. It's like an assassin class, you hit fast and hard and often. It's not the ship it's the weapons you mean are op right? Since escorts are really... well... nothing.
To me a vesta is op but no one seems to think so, so how can a ship designed to heal and kill like the Vesta not be op when a ship designed to simply kill like the escort classes are?
well. if escorts can equip the weapons and skills all atonce that are op, then escorts are op (or other classes are up).
the vesta... yeah, it is kind of op from one perspective, I wont disagree. compared to science ships it is the messiah. compared to cruiser? it lacks hull makes up with shields (but not fully). it lacks two weapon slots it makes it up with a hangar and DHCs. so compared to cruisers it is balanced, maybe a bit on the op side.
compared to escorts?
it loses a fore weapon slot, and it gains...? it loses mobility making the ability to equip dhcs useless in pvp against escorts, and it gains gains?.... it has a hangar bay - heavy escort carrier and jhec... it gains shields tho compared to escorts yay! owait, it has worse hull... oh and it has subsystem targeting. oh that cant be used with dhcs making my second point stronger lol.
just saying. escorts have a distinct advantage with skills and choice of weapons. ofc you can make a beam boat really really great. but it is less straight forward, and the potential (and versitality) is lower
If your entirely mk xii epic equiped cruiser can't break an escorts shields even though you fire everything you got and use all your offensive abilities then something's really wrong.
K'urg (Vexashen) was a KDF tactical captain in a fleet Tor'Khat
Morcael (Me) was a KDF tactical captain in a Fleet Tor'Khat (and I had MK XI VR Plasma Beams)
Cutter was a Fed tactical captain in an Andorian Kumari
Martin Brody was Fed engineering captain in a Fleet Ambassador
Karn was a KDF tactical captain in a Fleet D7
So we had 3 cruisers with BEAMS doing more than 7K DPS and one breaking 15K+ dps.
Beams don't suck.
Oh and Feds BETTER get the plasmodic leech in the next cross-faction console.
Just saying.
The problem with that is that it is ISE, the listed DPS there is from the last target, either the gate, or the Tac cube. Take it with a grain of salt. Same happens with the carrier in CSE or Donatra n KASE. If you just look at that the DPS looks a lot higher then it was sustained over the entire STF.
And btw, a DHC fleet Tor'Kaht can break 30k in those.
The problem with that is that it is ISE, the listed DPS there is from the last target, either the gate, or the Tac cube. Take it with a grain of salt. Same happens with the carrier in CSE or Donatra n KASE. If you just look at that the DPS looks a lot higher then it was sustained over the entire STF.
And btw, a DHC fleet Tor'Kaht can break 30k in those.
it is for the whole stf. you can see that it is not broken into two parts, like in ISEs where you do not engage another enemy fast (you can set it to different timeframes), it will conclude that engagement, and when you engage another enemy, a new will be started (like in CSE where there is a break between the last cube and the spawn of the carrier).
tho yeah, this could be taken with a "bit of grain of salt" it is full of tacs, and they pretty much boost eachother. also I am pretty sure all of them were spamming faw.
the numbers are good, but you cant deny, the circumstances were with the players
none the less in a pug, where you cant blow stuff early (because others probably dont have the dps for it), this is going to get around 10k dps, which is rly nice (considering the last week the highest dps escort I have seen dealt 9k and it was like meeting with a unicorn lol)
I agree Science suffers the most in this situation the "powerful" utility abilities science ships get have barely any effect especially on elite STFs apparently cryptic's logic is too add a class of player and ship not made to do damage and place it in a game that practicably relies on DPS This is not a Star Trek game anymore all Dual Heavy Cannons and High Damage, nerf Tacticals, Buff Engineering and Seriously Buff Science.
"There should not be equality in a game that is supposed to be about war. a roman row ship should not be equal to an American carrier."
Well in that case by using you logic that not "everything is balanced in real life" then I have a time ship that is 500 years more advanced than almost every other ship in the game therefore using your logic my ship should be more powerful than any other ship in the game so I should have more damage than all other players.
Your logic has serious flaws don't tell people to "get over it" when you are not the one suffering.
All I see here are bad players who don't know how to fly a their own ships, and are now crying for a massive damage boost.
The only thing with escorts is yes, they are more straightforward. It is easier to learn how to play them good. Or harder to play them badly.
Still. Learn to play the game. Listen to those few lost souls that try to give you tips how to make your ENG-cruiser or Sci-science ship better, instead of moaning here , wanting escorts to be nerfed because YOU are a bad player who can't play his/her choosen class.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
"Learning to play the game," is at this point equating to switch to an escort ship.
Everything I've learned about the game since I have started has pointed in that direction.
wanting escorts to be nerfed because YOU are a bad player who can't play his/her choosen class.
So it is right that 1 class of ship and character should make everything else inferior?
I can play a Tac/scort that can tank a gateway or a tac cube on elite and deal stupid amounts of damage doing it, I can build a 5k DPS eng/cruiser beam boat but it's not worth anything because the tac/scort does it all better...
As for sci... well now, AP:A and GDF lead to the great sci nerf after F2P and AP:O counters all holds covering the escorts only remaining weakness and escorts are not overpowered you say...
Comments
Dude thank you for saying what I've been saying. Prepare for getting blasted by the Escort OP whiners.
you completely missed the point of the original post. and that carrier infected elite solo in was a ship available to anyone. how it has any bearing on how op escorts are is beyond me.
My point is any class in a cruiser sci ship or escort can pull plenty of damage with a proper build. that carrier is an example of a very over the top build with hundreds of millions of ec in gear and doffs. Ive seen people pull 7-8k in a cruiser with green quality gear. So telling me cruisers cant keep up to escorts is just passing the buck on poor builds / skill at the game.
The number 1 reason most cruiser and sci captains do terrible damage is they dont understand how weapon power effects their beams. put 6 points in weapon performance and run emergency to weapons. watch your damage double. dont completely ignore your tac skill points. at the very least boost all skills that effect your beams and stop relying on torp builds. I have never seen a torp build that stacks up against a cruiser with a strong fire at will build.
If you think soloing infected is a standard every ship should be able to pull off well... The dread carrier is probably the most powerful pve ship in the game. Not all ships are created equal. Some cruiser and sci ships are meant for support in pvp. Some are just monsters that punch out huge damage in pve. Not all ships are meant to be dps. Stop pushing the game into the mold you want it to be and play it for what it is.
Are all ships balanced? no. Find me an MMO where everything is balanced... any mmo... ive played about 20. No matter what something will overpower something else.
Does that mean science ships and cruisers dont have a role in this game? Hell no. Get 4 of your friends together and setup a pvp premade team with all escorts. You will lose every match you enter.
Look at that original post and take a look at the damage log I posted. Stormy pulled that dps in an intrepid with common mk x gear. It CAN be done. People that cant do it are doing something wrong in their builds. It could be power levels, doffs, boffs or just your skill points. Work with people that out damage you and stop blaming your ship.
[SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be
The galaxy refit can be one of the best healing and support ships in the game. Run hive elite with a threat control build with alot of healing. Your team mates will die alot less since you are absorbing most of the damage. You are trying to push ships into a role they were never meant for. The assault cruiser is for sure a dps style cruiser and can pull escort level dps with the right build.
There are plenty of science ships that are just not meant for dps. Infact the ability of the vesta and wells are there to fill in a hole where dps was lacking for sci captains. Science captains are the backbone of any good pvp team. Without their healing and debuffing and especially subnuke your team will never reach the levels of high end pvp.
The imbalances in this game aren't class wide, but make themselves most known with particular ships within each class: there is really only one real problem with balancing ships:
Tac consoles are meant to boost direct damage. Throw a gravity well on a tac cube with alot of points in particle generators. Thats huge damage from a sci skill being buffed with sci consoles. Or use graviton and hold a group of spheres together and hit them with fire at will and a high yield torp. Stop fighting against the mechanics and learn how they work together and you will find all of a sudden your low dps class is a huge help to your team. Just because you arent topping your damage meter doesnt mean you arent usefull or important.
Also back to my original point... even if you dont want to play support to the tacs... scis and engineers CAN and DO pull 9k+ dps in my fleet without using escorts. So Im sorry but buffing the hell out of sci and eng consoles because you havent worked your way to those styles of builds is not the solution.
[SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be
there is to much damage mitigation out there now, it directly works against pressure, or cruiser damage as you might know it better. cruisers having closer to escort damage, i say why not, thats all that maters in pve anyway. at the same time they buff it for pve, it would be buffed in pvp as well, were it is actually needed. because right now non escorts are dealing a net of 0 damage to anyone they shoot at, because they deal damage gradually, not in chunks of spike.
escorts don't need a nerf, like the title of this thread is implying, all other ships need a change in the way they deal damage, to be more escort like. my idea to fix this is to change beam array and single cannons to fire 2 times per cycle, not 4. it would thus be delivered more like a escort delivers damage, thats how you can get around all the passives nullifying pressure. those passives and maco and fleet elite equipment and doffs are never going away, that means pressure will never work again.
the passives heal gradually, so damage that comes gradually is directly countered. thats the difference between pve and pvp, targets in pve have no regeneration or resistance, but massive hitpoints, its only a mater of time till anything dies. in pvp ships have small amounts of hit points, massive resistance, and massive heals and regeneration. its not just a mater of time till someone dies there, at all.
so cruisers are not fine, they do nothing in pvp anymore. and in pve, theres no reason 1 ship type should do more dps then another, dps is all that maters there. be it in peeks and valleys from escorts, from exotic means by sci ships, or from steady pressure from cruisers. what ever original intent needs to be discarded now, the power creep has changed the entire dynamic of everything, and the only thing that ended up marginalized is cruiser damage effectiveness in pvp.
not entirely true
they do have some resistance (at least, the borg do), and the same basic hull repair players have; that's why, when fighting NPCs, you'll sometimes see their HP total jump up 3%
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
as soon as an npc has an average hull regeneration of 200%, and 60% shield resistance, then you can say 'not entirely true' to me
i already did; why would i say it again?
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Um lovely. The point he was trying to make is that NPC ships have nowhere near the resistance and/or regen rate that player ships do in PVP.
I've dabbled in PVP and I've seen the power creep and felt it first hand. If I'm engaged by another cruiser (with a decent build and skills) the battle is a pointless draw. We simply don't do enough damage. In fact it's nearly impossible to even penetrate each others shields. Healing abilities, certain gear, and healing passives just outpace damage output. An escort on the other hand (particularly a tac escort) can buff up and unleash an incredible amount of damage over a very short time and penetrate a cruisers shields with relative ease. Burst damage wins and the moderate sustained damage of a cruiser is almost pointless at this point.
You mistake me for someone who doesn't know their way around...
I have a Tac/scort that can carry 2 people and itself through a CSE if I want to while having the capacity to tank anything the game throws at it (other than those 1/2/3 shot spike torps that kill you regardless of HP or resists or ship/captain type), I have an engineer in an Excelsior that puts out around 5k DPS over an STF (when last I had it parsed) and tank anything WHILE throwing heals out to the team. I have managed to double that with an aux2bat build but the defence on it was terrible and thats a beam boat. (I'll get both ships in both configs parsed again soon)
The one I can't get working is sci but I'm working on that one...
The point is that in a fair game the tac/scort would have its damage output and if it had 80% of the eng cruisers tanking then the eng cruiser would have its tanking and 80% of the escorts damage but instead we see escorts getting all their damage with 80% of the cruisers tanking and the eng cruiser only gets 50% (maybe) of the escorts damage...
I'm not the incompetent fool you seem to think I am and sure the Jem dread is available to anyone... if they have stupid amounts of currency... meaning my previous point still stands
yeah. beams benefit from auxtobat, and it is fine. but then you lose some other stuff. I am using now an auxtobat vesta, where the 6 beams (plasma, so I even get the plasma dmg bonuses, and the low weapon power usage from the romulan beam) of mine deal 6-7k dps in a round, and the rest 2k is done by my pets. what I sacrafice is basically all my sci powers in order for my beams to be powered (tho it is still a nicer dmg than most escorts have, and I like it, it is still very circumstancial for plasma).
what I think is the problem with beams above the weapon power drain, is the skills themselves. for BO, you need a skill that will push the power back a lot, so we are back to aux to bat again (and it is not enough to supply the power recharge constantly), and gives little back dmg wise. and what is also bad imo is FAW. it is too random, and not controlled enough. compared to CSV it is kinda useless. with CSV you can keep three targets under pressure. with FAW you are keeping the three targets the gate, and everything else within smelling range under pressure (its more of an annoyance for them, than pressure)
still lets first solve the power issue, and then move on to other things
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
I'm not sure what game you're playing, but I see more Odysseys than any other ship in the game. I see a lot of Andorian ships too, but that that's to be expected from Cryptic's latest, greatest, ripoff. "There's a sucker born every minute", as P.T. Barnum once said. I can play through the whole game in any "basic", free, ship. Science, or otherwise.
You can use a free ship and be just as effective. They have plenty of consoles to boost damage and turn rate, the assim, the tachy, the zero point, the rule 62, all are universals and everyone can use them, damage will jump dramatically.
I also get the people who say that the hell of the npc's going up 3-5% is nothing but wouldn't that be comparative to their original HP? if their HP is 470000 then it goes up incrementally isn't that going to be far greater then the heal of the players who's is 47000?
But anywho, i think this game is way to balanced as it is there shouldn't be so much balance in a war game or there's no point. we all seem gray after that. I'm not the type of person that wants to be equal to anyone I want to be the best. I used to support this game and every since this issue with balance there is no such thing as best. People say pay to win, lol i say where? I've killed andorians, jdreads, wells and bugs with my mirror patrol escort. I feel like Alexander the great now... i just need to find a place to weep.
Maybe there needs to be more of a dichotomy between the ships, what is working for one seems to be harming the other... what a terrible place to live in. When we are all leaders then who will lead? When we are all equal then what will happen to innovation? To change? No reason to advance when we are all the same gray blobs.
No matter what you try to build or what scheme you come up with talented players will find a way to take advantage of it, so by fixing one problem you will indeed create for yourself 2 and I for one no matter what will always be op if it's with escorts or not, beams or not, i will learn to make the game work for me and that's that.
Your entire view of pvp is based on 1 on 1. PvP is all about team work. If you dont have a good healer (ours flies an oddy is and is damned near impossible to kill) you dont have a hope. Yes you need spike damage but you also need to time it with a subnuke. Our pvp team is made up of 2 tacs in escorts, 2 scis in sci ships and an engineer in a cruiser. So sure our cruiser isnt out there soloing everyone on the other team... but thats not the role we set him up for.
[SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be
I dont recall personally calling you out. It was a statement about players I see in pugs in general. Also the fleet excelsior is capable of 11k dps with a decent tank without use the aux to batteries build. Mine pulls about 9k but we have a fleet mate that gets 11k in his. I highly suggest that ship to any engineer that feels hes low on damage until you have access to a t5 ship yard for the t5 sovereign. Ive even had my galaxy class pulling 5k as a heal boat.
My point is alot of people under estimate skills that really effect damage and vastly underestimate what weapon power does for you. Get your weapon power up over 150 and watch your damage sky rocket. The soft cap is 125. The actual cap is about 160 and while cannons arent effected nearly as much over 130 power beams sure as hell are.
A properly setup cruiser can pull as much or more than most escort captains out there.
Beams take a completely different mind set than cannons do and people really need to look at power levels and accuracy over crit rate and damage.
[SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be
FAW builds can be very effective. The issue is positioning. You need to be very aware of whats in range of your beams. I pull 11k+ with my faw builds on my klingon (yes the leech console adds quite a bit of that) and you suffer much less power drain than with BO builds. Also something to keep in mind is your shots continue to hit your primary target but you are also hitting everything else in range. In pvp a faw build with some sort of phaser proc weapon is amazing. Your harassment fire even at low power levels will still be subsystem procing everyone around you. In pve a faw build is great at killing probes or burning down spheres. The trick is to really have a strong tank and to make sure you arent in range of the gate. If I can do it in a carrier no cruiser captain should have a leg to stand on if it comes down to "my ship is too slow and turns like TRIBBLE to maintain possition".
Like my other posts in here have stated. Beam builds are scary as hell if set up properly. You must have a good tank build to back up all the agro you are going to get and you must watch what you are hitting.
[SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be
Can we be besties? If more people in this game had your outlook we would all be a lot happier. I started posting in here to try and get the same point across. I spend my time in this game trying to improve my build as much as I can. If I feel I've gotten as far as possible in a ship then I move on to another ship until something new comes out and then I go back to the first ship to see what else I can squeeze out of it.
[SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be
15.4k KDF cruiser damage
K'urg (Vexashen) was a KDF tactical captain in a fleet Tor'Khat
Morcael (Me) was a KDF tactical captain in a Fleet Tor'Khat (and I had MK XI VR Plasma Beams)
Cutter was a Fed tactical captain in an Andorian Kumari
Martin Brody was Fed engineering captain in a Fleet Ambassador
Karn was a KDF tactical captain in a Fleet D7
So we had 3 cruisers with BEAMS doing more than 7K DPS and one breaking 15K+ dps.
Beams don't suck.
Oh and Feds BETTER get the plasmodic leech in the next cross-faction console.
Just saying.
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
This is more the case of tactical debuffs...than beam performance.
beam builds can be really good yeah. however there are not as many build options as with cannons. that is why I brought up the problem with boff skills too as beam builds require not only auxtobat or some form of power to weapons to be most effective, but they have lesser boff skills too.
faw is great, but not as controllable as scv, which makes it lesser in comparison in my eyes (and for that matter, in many situations not as useful as you cant stop it targeting something, that should not be targetted like another cube in hse or random unkillable targets, if they are in range).
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
Find your peace in the chaos, if being the best is too competitive then sit back and chillax, it's a one player game if you want it to be, you don't have to be billy badass in everything. Some people can and some people can't. You are only weak if you tell people you are, people don't generally know or remember.
With an escort running beams because i enjoy spreading misery I put out some amazing dps and it's not because it's an escort, the only thing that escorts do is add +15 to weapons that's not that much when you look at it, it's barely two beams firing in an arc. If you can't recreate 15+ anything in your sub system overlays then I'm very sure that something went wrong somewhere. Doffs, builds, Boffs, skills, and to a lesser extent equipment have to come together to make a player elite. Not ship. Crazy dps peoples, just crazy
Lol and the attack is called Beam Fire at Will, not Beam fire on my mark(s). Whenever you hear the term fire at will in any game, the unit isn't firing at one thing they are firing at everything so it is working as it should... even with it's horrible accuracy (since you are firing at random targets their is no way you are really aiming right? But then again their should be targeting computers....)
I just don't get why people are saying escorts are op. It can't be because of damage since players make choices of what skills to use to attack and defend, a ship cannot be op in this balanced game, can it tank, and attack? Yes. It's like an assassin class, you hit fast and hard and often. It's not the ship it's the weapons you mean are op right? Since escorts are really... well... nothing.
To me a vesta is op but no one seems to think so, so how can a ship designed to heal and kill like the Vesta not be op when a ship designed to simply kill like the escort classes are?
In the end the argument of one class being better then the other is moot. You make the decision to fly what you want and do what you want you shouldn't get mad at others for doing the same. Personally I don't mind players getting stronger, by learning to play the game better, begging for buffs from outside influences, or pleading for nerfs to players who are better suited, but i draw the line at balance. There should not be equality in a game that is supposed to be about war. a roman row ship should not be equal to an American carrier. It's asinine. No wonder they keep bringing out old ships and such and making them amazing since in the future a top of the line ship fresh of the drawing boards in this game will be worse then a ship that's already released thinks to this call for balance. I mean look at the 1000 day ship, top of the line my foot. When was it top of the line? 2 years ago? Wait.. it was released in october... oooooo. damn.
You guys might think that what you're doing is a good idea but in the end you are simply making a good game worse. People should see these glaring differences in ship classes not as obstacles but challenges and each ship should have it's place but in the end this is not a team game this is a single player doing 90% of stand alone type game play with 10% of it team play. You can't expect the people who play alone would like the idea of their ships being nerfed because 10-20 people think they should be. The other 100-200 people don't care at all. So you want to gimp someone to make yourself feel better about your ship or your choices.... that's kinda messed up. You need to exhaust every effort, every every every effort before you start to call for someone else to become weaker to make you feel stronger.
I especially love the fact that people always jump on the point and yell obscenities band wagon like the Dev's love escorts when you have zero proof of anything but you're inadequacies. You know nothing about these people other then the fact that they can't respond to your every beck and call so they must be bad guys. They don't work for your they work for a corporation that says i pay your bills so you will listen to me. Have you guys thought that it's not the devs that love escorts but about 60-70% of the player base? If that many people liked strawberry ice cream as a company that makes ice cream would you make less or more strawberry ice cream? So before you blame others you have to learn to blame yourselves.
Not saying you need to learn to play since their isn't much to learn just saying you need to learn to accept. If you are given the short end of the stick then take as much of the stick as you can. I don't notice players around me anyhow when i am playing so you could be the best and i'll still ignore you in an estf. Too busy doing my best to do my part to care what someone else is doing or outputting. When I see something or someone do a huge amount of dps I do not say, aww man that's not fair. I say, oooo that's sweet, i want it, and i go and get it and test it out. If it's not for me then meh, if it is then sweet.
I fly cruisers and my dps is fantastic I just happen to truly love my patrol escort and i'll fly it till the wings fall off or they upgrade the chimera, it's not my fault that a level 40 ship just happens to be the best ship in the game it just happened that way, and just as easily as people can tell me my choice of best escort is wrong is just as easy as I can say your ideas of op is wrong.
I did not say it faw is bad. but compared to a cannon skill. well, it is lacking...
well. if escorts can equip the weapons and skills all atonce that are op, then escorts are op (or other classes are up).
the vesta... yeah, it is kind of op from one perspective, I wont disagree. compared to science ships it is the messiah. compared to cruiser? it lacks hull makes up with shields (but not fully). it lacks two weapon slots it makes it up with a hangar and DHCs. so compared to cruisers it is balanced, maybe a bit on the op side.
compared to escorts?
it loses a fore weapon slot, and it gains...? it loses mobility making the ability to equip dhcs useless in pvp against escorts, and it gains gains?.... it has a hangar bay - heavy escort carrier and jhec... it gains shields tho compared to escorts yay! owait, it has worse hull... oh and it has subsystem targeting. oh that cant be used with dhcs making my second point stronger lol.
just saying. escorts have a distinct advantage with skills and choice of weapons. ofc you can make a beam boat really really great. but it is less straight forward, and the potential (and versitality) is lower
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
The problem with that is that it is ISE, the listed DPS there is from the last target, either the gate, or the Tac cube. Take it with a grain of salt. Same happens with the carrier in CSE or Donatra n KASE. If you just look at that the DPS looks a lot higher then it was sustained over the entire STF.
And btw, a DHC fleet Tor'Kaht can break 30k in those.
it is for the whole stf. you can see that it is not broken into two parts, like in ISEs where you do not engage another enemy fast (you can set it to different timeframes), it will conclude that engagement, and when you engage another enemy, a new will be started (like in CSE where there is a break between the last cube and the spawn of the carrier).
tho yeah, this could be taken with a "bit of grain of salt"
the numbers are good, but you cant deny, the circumstances were with the players
none the less in a pug, where you cant blow stuff early (because others probably dont have the dps for it), this is going to get around 10k dps, which is rly nice (considering the last week the highest dps escort I have seen dealt 9k and it was like meeting with a unicorn lol)
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
Well in that case by using you logic that not "everything is balanced in real life" then I have a time ship that is 500 years more advanced than almost every other ship in the game therefore using your logic my ship should be more powerful than any other ship in the game so I should have more damage than all other players.
Your logic has serious flaws don't tell people to "get over it" when you are not the one suffering.
The only thing with escorts is yes, they are more straightforward. It is easier to learn how to play them good. Or harder to play them badly.
Still. Learn to play the game. Listen to those few lost souls that try to give you tips how to make your ENG-cruiser or Sci-science ship better, instead of moaning here , wanting escorts to be nerfed because YOU are a bad player who can't play his/her choosen class.
Everything I've learned about the game since I have started has pointed in that direction.
So it is right that 1 class of ship and character should make everything else inferior?
I can play a Tac/scort that can tank a gateway or a tac cube on elite and deal stupid amounts of damage doing it, I can build a 5k DPS eng/cruiser beam boat but it's not worth anything because the tac/scort does it all better...
As for sci... well now, AP:A and GDF lead to the great sci nerf after F2P and AP:O counters all holds covering the escorts only remaining weakness and escorts are not overpowered you say...