When the saucer sep tech is working, get a Galaxy-X and use the Galaxy-R's saucer sep console on it. Load the thing up like an escort and go. Sure it still won't be as good as a KDF battlecruiser, but it should be a massive improvement DPS wise.
In fact, my Klingon science officer in the carrier and 4 birds of prey can actually Out-do most PUG escorts in terms of damage.
Mind most of it is coming from the birds of prey, but my carrier is giving a good amount of romulan torpedo spam out too.
My federation engineer in a cruiser can also put out nice damage. Not as much as an escort, but the Excelsior also tends to be still flying when all the 4 escorts in team are expanding fireballs.
So yeah. You are just not doing it right.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
a lot of people have a sense of fairness that says,
''why should that guy take 45 mins to an hour, to blast through what i can do in 30 mins or less'' which is what i noticed going from an adv escort to a cruiser.
if you say ''enjoy it for what it is'' you are saying ''get an escort, they are more agile & more powerful than ships they are bigger than, just for the lols''.
No, I'm saying Enjoy it for what it is. With it's drawbacks and it's errors. Fly what you fly and do what you can do. DOn't try to do my job because you like it. Do yours even if it is to sit back and chillax
Of course an escort shouldn't be able to take on a battleship on the sea, but 3 Dimensional space is different. Speed is king, if I can out run your lasers and your torpedoes you can't kill me.
Now you guys are saying the ship is op, it's not the ship, it's the ships weapons. DHC's are op and not escorts. But then again escorts do have good captains who do know what they are doing. I wonder how interesting things would be if DHC's did not exist for any ships other then KDF and Sao Palos.
You guys have no idea how dangerous these clamors for reform can be nor how damaging it will be. If you get what you want you will only have yourself to blame when it falls apart.
This simply isn't true. I personally see Cruisers and Science ships all the time, in fact I will go so far as to say as much as I see Escorts. Escorts are not OP. There are just a lot of players out there who;
Don't know how to build/spec/gear/play Science Ships or Cruisers correctly
Expecting Cruisers and Science Ships to be something they are not
Don't want to learn how to build/spec/gear/play a Science Ship or Cruiser properly
I have several alts who pilot Science Ships and Cruisers. Not because of "sentimental attachment", rather because they are effective if done right and they are IMO very fun to play. My Science Captain in her Science ship can do things my Tac Captain in her Escort will never do. They're 2 different roles.
This. But I doubt people will learn.
Nerfing others until everybody is as lame and usless as they are is what they want.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
This simply isn't true. I personally see Cruisers and Science ships all the time, in fact I will go so far as to say as much as I see Escorts. Escorts are not OP. There are just a lot of players out there who;
Don't know how to build/spec/gear/play Science Ships or Cruisers correctly
Expecting Cruisers and Science Ships to be something they are not
Don't want to learn how to build/spec/gear/play a Science Ship or Cruiser properly
I have several alts who pilot Science Ships and Cruisers. Not because of "sentimental attachment", rather because they are effective if done right and they are IMO very fun to play. My Science Captain in her Science ship can do things my Tac Captain in her Escort will never do. They're 2 different roles.
Or maybe it's a case of some people know how to build an escort that can tank well enough to make the cruiser worthless, in case you hadn't noticed cruiser damage is TRIBBLE, in pvp cruiser damage is shrugged off by EPtS ALONE something EVERY mildly intelligent escort pilot has up 99% of the time and nobody wastes firepower on something that can't be destroyed in 30 seconds which means cruisers become healboats... something most carriers do better so anyone looking to build a good healboat runs a carrier not a cruiser.
All science powers are easily dismissed thanks to AP:A and GDF leading to great nerfs and as nothing takes shields offline no system disable will make a difference, AP:O eliminates any and ALL efforts to hold an escort so they don't have to worry about that either...
Or maybe it's a case of some people know how to build an escort that can tank well enough to make the cruiser worthless, in case you hadn't noticed cruiser damage is TRIBBLE, in pvp cruiser damage is shrugged off by EPtS ALONE something EVERY mildly intelligent escort pilot has up 99% of the time and nobody wastes firepower on something that can't be destroyed in 30 seconds which means cruisers become healboats... something most carriers do better so anyone looking to build a good healboat runs a carrier not a cruiser.
All science powers are easily dismissed thanks to AP:A and GDF leading to great nerfs and as nothing takes shields offline no system disable will make a difference, AP:O eliminates any and ALL efforts to hold an escort so they don't have to worry about that either...
You were saying escorts aren't overpowered..?
I see cruisers do well. It's skill and build NOTHING MORE
First, PvP and PvE are 2 entirely different things. Second, Cruisers and Science ships also have access to EPtS and can quite easily shrug off incoming damage with it as well, so your whole point there is meaningless.
One does not simply shrug off DHCs... on the other hand one does simply shrug off Beam arrays, if that was not the case people wouldn't be using SINGLE CANNONS as a substitute to do MORE DAMAGE...
Of course there are counters to holds. There should be. You can also use Deutrium burn or even Evasive Manuevers to pull out of a hold if AP:O or PH is on cooldown. Should those get nerfed too?
Of course there should be counters to holds but they shouldn't come in the form of extra damage PLUS extra defence PLUS extra speed (oh look, MORE extra defence) PLUS teleport immunity PLUS immunity to ALL holds... sorry but THAT is overpowered ESPECIALLY when there are so few ships outside of ONE class that can use it.
Yes, I was. IMO they aren't. If you can't kill one in PvP, you're not built/specced/geared/playing right. PvP is a team sport, not a solo one.
Then I would like to see your eng cruiser or sci sci destroy my tac/scort in 1 on 1 pvp...
So because you want to pvp one on one, others should be useless in STFs.
I'm glad Cryptic won't listen to this.
you do realise that pvp balance would make stfs better, right? at this point stfs are dps based and escorts deal the best pure dps (sure you can do nice dps with cruisers and such) while they tank everything that comes at them.
with pvp balance stfs would be harder (I mean to say they would be hard, or atleast not easy as they are) as you would need actual teamplay (because at this point you dont need no teamplay, you just need a team of players who are not droids, and know what NOT to do), which would make other ships useful
So that all the pugs would not be able to do it all, and I would either have to do the entire mission myself or wait half a day for a competent team.
I'm sorry, but I could not do that. Though my Cruiser with the Engineer in it would have the best shot at it.
Gee thanks! Why just not remove them all together for your pvp minority sake?
Or give the borg their invisible one shot torpedo to spheres too? With a tripled rate of fire?
so basically you are saying, we should have the sci ships and cruisers be shadows of what they could be, just so people in escorts can solo things, and so they wont need to rely on eachother in an MMO?
I mean that they are fine, and you just do not know how to use them properly. The best PVPer in my fleet has a Sci in a science ship (Fleet Nova refit).
So its not nerf that, buff this, its learn the correct bridge officer, skill, equipment combos.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
I mean that they are fine, and you just do not know how to use them properly. The best PVPer in my fleet has a Sci in a science ship (Fleet Nova refit).
So its not nerf that, buff this, its learn the correct bridge officer, skill, equipment combos.
I do not doubt that. however the point here is, that a well equipped escort will always be at an advantage against other ships in equal circumstances (well the real problem is, that the odds can be against the escort and he wont be bothered too much either)
I was one of the originals that started this game on the first day and chose an engineer captain. Oh, that I had chosen a tac captain like 90% of players today are playing.
Tactical/escort captains have insane damage, healing, maneuverability, and survivability now. There is no upside to playing a cruiser and its a cold day in *&^*&* when you would play a science ship over an escort.
Rebalance the ships- give them all roles once again. Nerf escorts, buff cruisers, and really buff science ships. It is desperately needed.
did you know that 60% of all statistics are just thrown out there to try and get people to take a side?
insane survivability? sure my escort can withstand attacks for a bit, but its not going to sit there and tank an entire team fireing on it. even with one ship fireing on me I cannot just let them pound one shield facing and expect to live.
When I fly my cruiser on my eng capt I am extremely hard to kill, I even support my team members. sure it does not do much damage but then comes in your argument about giving roles to ships right? escorts do damage, cruisers heal/tank, and science ships heal/debuff. which is exactly what they are doing.
I will agree that science ships need a buff to damage only.
when I do arena PVP, I do not even bother gonig for a cruiser because they just sit there laughing the entire time I waste my buffs on them, same goes for science ships, they can keep there shields up crazy good. I only go for other escorts, because I KNOW I can wear them down much easier.
that Science offensive abilities seem to be resisted too easily by borg NPCs.
Science needs offensive powers WORTH resisting in the first place... there is a running theme among good science ships... they ALL do good WEAPON DPS and have more high level Tac boff skills...
If you were to take a Defiant boff layout and swap the Tac and Sci boffs (I don't believe it's been done yet) it would fail so epically it would be like a science Failaxy...
Quote:
Originally Posted by resoundingenvoy
Ok, but I meant middle where I could take no or few defensive abilities, still be useful, and not be stopped dead by the first tactical escort that comes along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by loading159
honestly I feel like this topic is just about people complaining that they have to take survivability abilities so they don't die.
this is from another thread. Ill be honest i did not read the 27 some pages of this topic, but I hope its not about what i quoted above.
Science needs offensive powers WORTH resisting in the first place... there is a running theme among good science ships... they ALL do good WEAPON DPS and have more high level Tac boff skills...
If you were to take a Defiant boff layout and swap the Tac and Sci boffs (I don't believe it's been done yet) it would fail so epically it would be like a science Failaxy...
The swap has been done: It's the Intrepid (Long range science vessel retrofit) and yes, that ship kinda sucks...
Formerly Known as Protector from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
I mean that they are fine, and you just do not know how to use them properly. The best PVPer in my fleet has a Sci in a science ship (Fleet Nova refit).
So its not nerf that, buff this, its learn the correct bridge officer, skill, equipment combos.
Ah... the famous L2P argument. I love how it's automatically assumed that players who comment on an imbalance are immediately told to L2P and gtfo. Did it ever occur to you guys that we have game experience and that we have tested MANY times MANY possible combinations?
It comes down to the simple fact that DHCtacscorts are the most effective and most efficient method of doing ANYTHING in PvE. They kill things the fastest and DPS is all that counts. Yes, in PvP a full scort team will lose, but PvP is the only place where things are somewhat different. But the majority of end-game content is PvE. And in PvE (outside of a very VERY small number of things, mostly NWS), DHCscorts rule with an iron fist. There is no disputing that fact.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Sci don't need a pvp buff. They got the trolliest evilest pvp ability ever, subnucleonic beam.
Escort captains shiver in their beds thinking of that big purple "I WIN" beam.
Yeah, try tanking that elite tactical cube or Donatra in an escort and see how you blow into little, little pieces.
And yes. Learn to play! You tested wrong combinations in a lame way. Like someone who complained he can not kill a hard mob and had a cruiser with torpedoes and 2 beam arrays. Derp!
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Comments
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
In fact, my Klingon science officer in the carrier and 4 birds of prey can actually Out-do most PUG escorts in terms of damage.
Mind most of it is coming from the birds of prey, but my carrier is giving a good amount of romulan torpedo spam out too.
My federation engineer in a cruiser can also put out nice damage. Not as much as an escort, but the Excelsior also tends to be still flying when all the 4 escorts in team are expanding fireballs.
So yeah. You are just not doing it right.
Sad to say that's not too hard.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
And he is an alt with not the best end gear.
No, I'm saying Enjoy it for what it is. With it's drawbacks and it's errors. Fly what you fly and do what you can do. DOn't try to do my job because you like it. Do yours even if it is to sit back and chillax
Of course an escort shouldn't be able to take on a battleship on the sea, but 3 Dimensional space is different. Speed is king, if I can out run your lasers and your torpedoes you can't kill me.
Now you guys are saying the ship is op, it's not the ship, it's the ships weapons. DHC's are op and not escorts. But then again escorts do have good captains who do know what they are doing. I wonder how interesting things would be if DHC's did not exist for any ships other then KDF and Sao Palos.
You guys have no idea how dangerous these clamors for reform can be nor how damaging it will be. If you get what you want you will only have yourself to blame when it falls apart.
This. But I doubt people will learn.
Nerfing others until everybody is as lame and usless as they are is what they want.
Or maybe it's a case of some people know how to build an escort that can tank well enough to make the cruiser worthless, in case you hadn't noticed cruiser damage is TRIBBLE, in pvp cruiser damage is shrugged off by EPtS ALONE something EVERY mildly intelligent escort pilot has up 99% of the time and nobody wastes firepower on something that can't be destroyed in 30 seconds which means cruisers become healboats... something most carriers do better so anyone looking to build a good healboat runs a carrier not a cruiser.
All science powers are easily dismissed thanks to AP:A and GDF leading to great nerfs and as nothing takes shields offline no system disable will make a difference, AP:O eliminates any and ALL efforts to hold an escort so they don't have to worry about that either...
You were saying escorts aren't overpowered..?
I see cruisers do well. It's skill and build NOTHING MORE
One does not simply shrug off DHCs... on the other hand one does simply shrug off Beam arrays, if that was not the case people wouldn't be using SINGLE CANNONS as a substitute to do MORE DAMAGE...
Of course there should be counters to holds but they shouldn't come in the form of extra damage PLUS extra defence PLUS extra speed (oh look, MORE extra defence) PLUS teleport immunity PLUS immunity to ALL holds... sorry but THAT is overpowered ESPECIALLY when there are so few ships outside of ONE class that can use it.
Then I would like to see your eng cruiser or sci sci destroy my tac/scort in 1 on 1 pvp...
I'm glad Cryptic won't listen to this.
you do realise that pvp balance would make stfs better, right? at this point stfs are dps based and escorts deal the best pure dps (sure you can do nice dps with cruisers and such) while they tank everything that comes at them.
with pvp balance stfs would be harder (I mean to say they would be hard, or atleast not easy as they are) as you would need actual teamplay (because at this point you dont need no teamplay, you just need a team of players who are not droids, and know what NOT to do), which would make other ships useful
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
I'm sorry, but I could not do that. Though my Cruiser with the Engineer in it would have the best shot at it.
Gee thanks! Why just not remove them all together for your pvp minority sake?
Or give the borg their invisible one shot torpedo to spheres too? With a tripled rate of fire?
so basically you are saying, we should have the sci ships and cruisers be shadows of what they could be, just so people in escorts can solo things, and so they wont need to rely on eachother in an MMO?
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
So its not nerf that, buff this, its learn the correct bridge officer, skill, equipment combos.
Have you ever heard of team chat? You know people might actually say something to one another if they had to...
We would also see a more interesting endgame as well as more use for ships other than escorts...
Of course you did not.
I understand now why Cryptic pays little heed to the forums.
If they listened to people like you, their game would have been ruined years ago.
I do not doubt that. however the point here is, that a well equipped escort will always be at an advantage against other ships in equal circumstances (well the real problem is, that the odds can be against the escort and he wont be bothered too much either)
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
I have seen some around.
Though one thing I would say, that Science offensive abilities seem to be resisted too easily by borg NPCs.
So we should nerf escorts? No.
Rather, get the borg to be suspectible to things like Tyken rift or sensor scrambling.
I dont want them to be nerfed either, it would make ppl angry, and noone wants that rage
and that would solve pvp imbalance how?
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
did you know that 60% of all statistics are just thrown out there to try and get people to take a side?
insane survivability? sure my escort can withstand attacks for a bit, but its not going to sit there and tank an entire team fireing on it. even with one ship fireing on me I cannot just let them pound one shield facing and expect to live.
When I fly my cruiser on my eng capt I am extremely hard to kill, I even support my team members. sure it does not do much damage but then comes in your argument about giving roles to ships right? escorts do damage, cruisers heal/tank, and science ships heal/debuff. which is exactly what they are doing.
I will agree that science ships need a buff to damage only.
when I do arena PVP, I do not even bother gonig for a cruiser because they just sit there laughing the entire time I waste my buffs on them, same goes for science ships, they can keep there shields up crazy good. I only go for other escorts, because I KNOW I can wear them down much easier.
Science needs offensive powers WORTH resisting in the first place... there is a running theme among good science ships... they ALL do good WEAPON DPS and have more high level Tac boff skills...
If you were to take a Defiant boff layout and swap the Tac and Sci boffs (I don't believe it's been done yet) it would fail so epically it would be like a science Failaxy...
this is from another thread. Ill be honest i did not read the 27 some pages of this topic, but I hope its not about what i quoted above.
The swap has been done: It's the Intrepid (Long range science vessel retrofit) and yes, that ship kinda sucks...
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
Ah... the famous L2P argument. I love how it's automatically assumed that players who comment on an imbalance are immediately told to L2P and gtfo. Did it ever occur to you guys that we have game experience and that we have tested MANY times MANY possible combinations?
It comes down to the simple fact that DHCtacscorts are the most effective and most efficient method of doing ANYTHING in PvE. They kill things the fastest and DPS is all that counts. Yes, in PvP a full scort team will lose, but PvP is the only place where things are somewhat different. But the majority of end-game content is PvE. And in PvE (outside of a very VERY small number of things, mostly NWS), DHCscorts rule with an iron fist. There is no disputing that fact.
Escort captains shiver in their beds thinking of that big purple "I WIN" beam.
Yeah, try tanking that elite tactical cube or Donatra in an escort and see how you blow into little, little pieces.
And yes. Learn to play! You tested wrong combinations in a lame way. Like someone who complained he can not kill a hard mob and had a cruiser with torpedoes and 2 beam arrays. Derp!