I think the way to resolve this is to pull all the rewards away from the Foundry - people should be playing Foundry missions because they like Foundry missions, not because they dislike Fleet Actions - those 50 Fleet Marks need to go somewhere else.
Put them on the Officer of the Watch.
If Foundry missions just awarded XP and EC then new players (or characters) levelling up would have an alternative way to earn ECs and progress and veterans that don't want to play Foundry stuff won't feel like they're being forced to.
Having a simple Dilithium award (and maybe a token Lobi award as I suggested earlier) as an incentive to play daily/weekly Spotlighted missions should then be enough to draw in players that are curious to see the best the Foundry has to offer.
Sure, Foundry authors may see a lot less players trying their missions, but the ones that did play them would be doing so for the right reasons - not because the Foundry is the most convenient way to farm EC/Dilithium/Fleet Marks.
Would some of you be happy if they put fleet marks back, but set them to scale with dilithium rewards?
The trick might be if the scaling rewards length.
Ex:
15 min mission = 10 FM
30 min mission = 30 FM
45 min mission = 65 FM
60 min mission = 100 FM
This would grant FMs, but at the same time encourage the play of longer stories, since repeating a boff grinders would earn less than sitting down and playing a story mission. Or it would encourage some authors to make long and epic grinds, instead of ones where you lay behind a fence and shootz stuffz.
nah I'm of the mindset that it should be removed entirely, No reward for foundry at all. By removing anything that can be exploited it solves the problem entirely, its the logical choice here, since everything they've done has just caused issues. If it has no rewards it can't cause them issues. Simple easy and painless. remove all the rewards from the foundry.
All they did was shift the AFKers from doing solo missions to TRIBBLE players over in the fleet missions. There will be much more AFK sightings in incursion and others now. Far fewer people will even bother looking at the foundry. They shouldn't even be wasting time with the spotlight stuff... It won't be worth playing.
You know, that could be the silver lining in all this. The foundry dies off, and we can finally be done with all the whining about these heartless players who were "doing it wrong", and ignoring all the 2-hour epic masterpieces.
I agree this is totally TRIBBLE i am sorry to say how are we to be able to build the star base now with small fleets this is utter TRIBBLE what the hell is the point on foundry now when i can not even find it in my available.This makes me mad as hell pwe is ruining the game to the point where i don't want to even play it any more.
Foundry daily is the only way i can spend time to build my star base.I will not spend any more money on this dumb game.:mad:
The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.
The only answer I can give to this is to repeat my personal belief that Cryptic felt that we were earning Fleet Marks faster than they wanted/expected us to, and not in the ways that they wanted/expected us to. They have the power ("right" doesn't matter, "right" is irrelevant) to change this, to enforce it, and they have now done so. Until they change things again, all we can do is play the game their way... or leave.
IMO, some people are looking for a scapegoat, someone they can actually reach and blame, because (consciously or not) they realize they have no real power or influence over Cryptic or PWE. They can complain, or leave... and that's all. And if they do leave, no one will care, because there are so many others.
It's a very sad thing to realize you're powerless, so most people will do anything to pretend otherwise as long as they can.
40+ pages of posts shows you to be in the minority on that standpoint. I respect your opinion, but that is all it is - your opinion.
Obviously, the player base is not powerless, and in fact has a lot more power than you believe. The S7 debacle is a good example of players being heard on a major issue. You can bet there will be changes incoming for this patch as well, in one way(read: compromise) or another. Customers always have power over any business that needs them to SURVIVE. If you open a restaurant and nobody comes, you are closed for good - end of story.
That whole analogy about this being similar to people standing in line for a concert is irrelevant as well, there's no 'queue' or line here, players are not competing against each other for faster 'access' to anything, and there is not a limited number of 'anything' as far as rewards go, there is no way for certain players to 'cut' in front of others, and there is no similar basis for that argument whatsoever.
The rewards were plentiful and equal for everyone as long as you played a mission that 'met the criteria' established by (wait for it) - Cryptic. So once you found something you liked that met said criteria you could then proceed to repeat it every 1/2 hour if you chose for the 50 FM's and DIL, plus whatever drops you got under the IOR criteria established by (guess who?) - Cryptic. Then, they decide they don't want people farming/grinding EC, so instead of addressing it directly they do the easiest thing for them and just change the AI. Now, for whatever reason, they are not OK with FM's being attached to the Foundry or the IOR in general so they get yanked altogether. At the time this whole 30min IOR thing became active, everyone I spoke with about it was amazed at the change since it was so 180 degrees the opposite what Cryptic had been/was/is doing at the time(and i'll say it again) thought it would only be a matter of time before they nerfed it somehow as it was 'too good to be true'. Even WE could see it was crazy, and somehow Cryptic didn't? I don't think they are particularly great at their jobs but I can't believe they are that ignorant either. They HAD to know what this was going to do.
People were impressed and thankful when this change was originally implemented, and even some felt a restored faith in what Cryptic had in store for the future. I was one of those people.
The FM missions give such a low reward that it's not worth doing. i log in just to get FM's & some dill to contribute to the base missions. My god man, id like to be at T5 sometime this year. Increase the FM's in fleet missions. If you guys are looking to weed out your player base, id say you have done an outstanding job with this patch. Very tempted to walk away for a while and try out some other games.
Cryptic, remember the TRIBBLE storm that hit with Season 7 and the changes that were made to the foundry rewards?
I'm sure they do; they also remember that after the forum "TRIBBLE storm", they had record concurrency numbers, and their income went up.
1) Forum readers are a minority of the player base.
2) Forum posters are a minority of the forum base.
3) Angry forum readers are more likely to be posters than are happy forum readers.
These things are true of every community everywhere, except communities that only exist on a forum; in those you can eliminate #1, but the others still hold true.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
Well im now finished with the foundry as many others are. Removing IOR was a huge mistake as the constant grinding of the fleet mark missions gets boring....FAST. Being able to earn a fair amount of FM's while running foundry missions was one of the best things you have implemented. I know you are trying to force people into story missions but damnit cryptic you must realize not everyone here is for story and roleplaying. Some of the quick kill em all "farm type" missions were preferred and alot more fun then these roleplay heavy story foundry missions or the current fleet mark missions you have.
I hope you realize just how many people are upset over the loss of IOR. You have taken more fun out of the game forcing us to go back to boring grind it out missions for fleet marks that you have created for us. They reward so little for time spent. :mad::mad::mad::mad:
same concept as before,30 mins cooldown,and with 20 mins minuim playtime?:D
with a maxuim of 4 time's a day?
people without much time can still get what they want,and people with to much time,get the same?
you can choose what you want
2x dill 2x fm
all dill,all fm,choose is up to the player?
See the thing is, I am not angry. I am at best very very confused. The community was pitching a tantrum before when so many sources of Dilithium were removed even as yet another grindfest requiring Dilithium went live.
Yes; the forums pitched that fit. And then after things settled out, the numbers showed Cryptic that in fact people were generating more Dilithium than before, and the forum fits died out and were never heard from again.
Now, I don't for a second think that's what's going to happen with this; this will clearly reduce fleet marks in game, and I absolutely think they are going to need to increase them. But it will not be a massive catastrophe. Most of the angry people won't quit. Most of the people who do quit will come back. The Earth will turn on its axis unabated, and when things settle out, Cryptic will make more tweaks.
I just think one of those tweaks should be an immediate increase in fleet mark rewards for the content they have that they expect people to use for fleet marks. Give a carrot with the stick.
I also think they should make ANY content that's done by people grouped together who are in the same fleet reward those people with fleet marks. I don't know how many, probably a sliding scale, but ANYTHING that's done together by fleet mates should award some small amount of fleet marks. I don't think that's an immediate change, though; it'll take time to balance.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
Yes; the forums pitched that fit. And then after things settled out, the numbers showed Cryptic that in fact people were generating more Dilithium than before, and the forum fits died out and were never heard from again.
You're conveniently leaving out two major pieces of that ****storm
1) Cryptic flat out lying to players (which did not happen in this case)
and
2) People being very upset at being forced into specific content types for rewards. Prior to the reversion, if one wanted dilitihum there was one set of things one had to run, if they wanted omega marks there was a different list, fleet marks another list and so on.
We're now back to that. Having to grind multiple currencies non-concurrently is incredibly annoying, especially given what dilithium is supposed to be (a tangible representation of time invested).
I firmly believe that Cryptic's reasoning for this change is, frankly, bull****. Temporal Ambassador still yields 20 Fleet Marks per run, and that's a solo mission.
nah I'm of the mindset that it should be removed entirely, No reward for foundry at all. By removing anything that can be exploited it solves the problem entirely, its the logical choice here, since everything they've done has just caused issues. If it has no rewards it can't cause them issues. Simple easy and painless. remove all the rewards from the foundry.
then all the foundry authors would be in a uproar becuase they are the ones that wanted there missions to give a reward.
Originally Posted by marc8219 View Post
My KDF fleet Beautiful Orions will do just fine without this because we actually run the Fleet mark events together as a fleet. We do the 20 man starbase defense flawlessly and thats around 100 marks per person for 20 people each time and we can get groups for this together several times a day if needed.
The idea behind having a fleet and starbase is you are supposed to grow your fleet big enough so you can also do stuff like this and not have to rely on the public queues.
in any case that is not a option for all fleets so having this taken away will hurt them a bit. my point being that not all fleets can get 20 people on at one time to do private ques
I like the reward changes.
For someone like me, who is not in a Fleet, this gives me more incentive to play the Foundry missions.
Maybe they should make it a 'choice reward' where when you finish the mission you can either chose 'Dilithium' or 'Fleet-Marks' for your reward (and still get the skill points/expertise with either choice).
That way the incentive to play the Foundry missions will be more for more people..
then all the foundry authors would be in a uproar becuase they are the ones that wanted there missions to give a reward.
And its that desire that is causing the problem, the fact is folks will make foundry missions to get as much from it as they can with the least amount of work, by taking ALL the rewards out, this can not happen, and the problem is solved. Its the best solution to the problem, it completely removes ALL potential for exploits. This should be the course of action taken. Then those who want the do the fan fic missions that are the "good" foundry missions, can, and don't have to worry about exploits or issues, the story will be the reward.
And its that desire that is causing the problem, the fact is folks will make foundry missions to get as much from it as they can with the least amount of work, by taking ALL the rewards out, this can not happen, and the problem is solved. Its the best solution to the problem, it completely removes ALL potential for exploits. This should be the course of action taken. Then those who want the do the fan fic missions that are the "good" foundry missions, can, and don't have to worry about exploits or issues, the story will be the reward.
By your argument you should stop everyone from driving to prevent people from speeding. Ruining it for the masses to stop the exploiting minority is NEVER the right way to do things.
As for removing all rewards, completely wring way to do things. In a game where there are far more resources needed than a person can obtain you'll find that the things that offer no reward will die off. The foundry is too special a place to allow that to happen to it.
Folks are complaining they can't get Fleet Marks for making AFK grinders in the Foundry anymore, so instead they'll go AFK in other grinders.
Clearly this will shut the game down tomorrow. :rolleyes:
Wrong. It's people who've been playing the mission the way it was set up that are complaining. Just look at this thread or look in game to see. Some people go AFK but not the majority.
Removing Fleet Marks because of AFK players is like closing a swimming pool because someone is peeing in the pool.
And its that desire that is causing the problem, the fact is folks will make foundry missions to get as much from it as they can with the least amount of work, by taking ALL the rewards out, this can not happen, and the problem is solved. Its the best solution to the problem, it completely removes ALL potential for exploits. This should be the course of action taken. Then those who want the do the fan fic missions that are the "good" foundry missions, can, and don't have to worry about exploits or issues, the story will be the reward.
Yes but not many of us is going to spend an hour playing MISSION.
The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.
Comments
Put them on the Officer of the Watch.
If Foundry missions just awarded XP and EC then new players (or characters) levelling up would have an alternative way to earn ECs and progress and veterans that don't want to play Foundry stuff won't feel like they're being forced to.
Having a simple Dilithium award (and maybe a token Lobi award as I suggested earlier) as an incentive to play daily/weekly Spotlighted missions should then be enough to draw in players that are curious to see the best the Foundry has to offer.
Sure, Foundry authors may see a lot less players trying their missions, but the ones that did play them would be doing so for the right reasons - not because the Foundry is the most convenient way to farm EC/Dilithium/Fleet Marks.
nah I'm of the mindset that it should be removed entirely, No reward for foundry at all. By removing anything that can be exploited it solves the problem entirely, its the logical choice here, since everything they've done has just caused issues. If it has no rewards it can't cause them issues. Simple easy and painless. remove all the rewards from the foundry.
You know, that could be the silver lining in all this. The foundry dies off, and we can finally be done with all the whining about these heartless players who were "doing it wrong", and ignoring all the 2-hour epic masterpieces.
Foundry daily is the only way i can spend time to build my star base.I will not spend any more money on this dumb game.:mad:
we have dstahl the daniel sir,stahls up fire daniel's
red alert red alert,all members report to battle stations,we have engaged the enemy sir,shields up fire phaser.
thats translation,but hey,this game is all about what sir d stahl thinks/needs/wants,so why not mix a couple words?:D
40+ pages of posts shows you to be in the minority on that standpoint. I respect your opinion, but that is all it is - your opinion.
Obviously, the player base is not powerless, and in fact has a lot more power than you believe. The S7 debacle is a good example of players being heard on a major issue. You can bet there will be changes incoming for this patch as well, in one way(read: compromise) or another. Customers always have power over any business that needs them to SURVIVE. If you open a restaurant and nobody comes, you are closed for good - end of story.
That whole analogy about this being similar to people standing in line for a concert is irrelevant as well, there's no 'queue' or line here, players are not competing against each other for faster 'access' to anything, and there is not a limited number of 'anything' as far as rewards go, there is no way for certain players to 'cut' in front of others, and there is no similar basis for that argument whatsoever.
The rewards were plentiful and equal for everyone as long as you played a mission that 'met the criteria' established by (wait for it) - Cryptic. So once you found something you liked that met said criteria you could then proceed to repeat it every 1/2 hour if you chose for the 50 FM's and DIL, plus whatever drops you got under the IOR criteria established by (guess who?) - Cryptic. Then, they decide they don't want people farming/grinding EC, so instead of addressing it directly they do the easiest thing for them and just change the AI. Now, for whatever reason, they are not OK with FM's being attached to the Foundry or the IOR in general so they get yanked altogether. At the time this whole 30min IOR thing became active, everyone I spoke with about it was amazed at the change since it was so 180 degrees the opposite what Cryptic had been/was/is doing at the time(and i'll say it again) thought it would only be a matter of time before they nerfed it somehow as it was 'too good to be true'. Even WE could see it was crazy, and somehow Cryptic didn't? I don't think they are particularly great at their jobs but I can't believe they are that ignorant either. They HAD to know what this was going to do.
People were impressed and thankful when this change was originally implemented, and even some felt a restored faith in what Cryptic had in store for the future. I was one of those people.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The o3 - Killed you good
I'm sure they do; they also remember that after the forum "TRIBBLE storm", they had record concurrency numbers, and their income went up.
1) Forum readers are a minority of the player base.
2) Forum posters are a minority of the forum base.
3) Angry forum readers are more likely to be posters than are happy forum readers.
These things are true of every community everywhere, except communities that only exist on a forum; in those you can eliminate #1, but the others still hold true.
Expect it to be nerfed or removed in a patch soon. It follows their logic on why they removed it from foundry.
ie: "Lets beat 'em with a nerf stick and get 'em mad, then we'll toss them a bone and they'll love us again...'
I hope you realize just how many people are upset over the loss of IOR. You have taken more fun out of the game forcing us to go back to boring grind it out missions for fleet marks that you have created for us. They reward so little for time spent. :mad::mad::mad::mad:
gibe a choice:
or 960 dill
or 25 fleet marks.
same concept as before,30 mins cooldown,and with 20 mins minuim playtime?:D
with a maxuim of 4 time's a day?
people without much time can still get what they want,and people with to much time,get the same?
you can choose what you want
2x dill 2x fm
all dill,all fm,choose is up to the player?
i think this is a good midway?
Yes; the forums pitched that fit. And then after things settled out, the numbers showed Cryptic that in fact people were generating more Dilithium than before, and the forum fits died out and were never heard from again.
Now, I don't for a second think that's what's going to happen with this; this will clearly reduce fleet marks in game, and I absolutely think they are going to need to increase them. But it will not be a massive catastrophe. Most of the angry people won't quit. Most of the people who do quit will come back. The Earth will turn on its axis unabated, and when things settle out, Cryptic will make more tweaks.
I just think one of those tweaks should be an immediate increase in fleet mark rewards for the content they have that they expect people to use for fleet marks. Give a carrot with the stick.
I also think they should make ANY content that's done by people grouped together who are in the same fleet reward those people with fleet marks. I don't know how many, probably a sliding scale, but ANYTHING that's done together by fleet mates should award some small amount of fleet marks. I don't think that's an immediate change, though; it'll take time to balance.
You're conveniently leaving out two major pieces of that ****storm
1) Cryptic flat out lying to players (which did not happen in this case)
and
2) People being very upset at being forced into specific content types for rewards. Prior to the reversion, if one wanted dilitihum there was one set of things one had to run, if they wanted omega marks there was a different list, fleet marks another list and so on.
We're now back to that. Having to grind multiple currencies non-concurrently is incredibly annoying, especially given what dilithium is supposed to be (a tangible representation of time invested).
then all the foundry authors would be in a uproar becuase they are the ones that wanted there missions to give a reward.
in any case that is not a option for all fleets so having this taken away will hurt them a bit. my point being that not all fleets can get 20 people on at one time to do private ques
For someone like me, who is not in a Fleet, this gives me more incentive to play the Foundry missions.
Maybe they should make it a 'choice reward' where when you finish the mission you can either chose 'Dilithium' or 'Fleet-Marks' for your reward (and still get the skill points/expertise with either choice).
That way the incentive to play the Foundry missions will be more for more people..
And its that desire that is causing the problem, the fact is folks will make foundry missions to get as much from it as they can with the least amount of work, by taking ALL the rewards out, this can not happen, and the problem is solved. Its the best solution to the problem, it completely removes ALL potential for exploits. This should be the course of action taken. Then those who want the do the fan fic missions that are the "good" foundry missions, can, and don't have to worry about exploits or issues, the story will be the reward.
By your argument you should stop everyone from driving to prevent people from speeding. Ruining it for the masses to stop the exploiting minority is NEVER the right way to do things.
As for removing all rewards, completely wring way to do things. In a game where there are far more resources needed than a person can obtain you'll find that the things that offer no reward will die off. The foundry is too special a place to allow that to happen to it.
Wrong. It's people who've been playing the mission the way it was set up that are complaining. Just look at this thread or look in game to see. Some people go AFK but not the majority.
Removing Fleet Marks because of AFK players is like closing a swimming pool because someone is peeing in the pool.
Yes but not many of us is going to spend an hour playing MISSION.