Of all the top 'grinder' missions, how many had ships that shot at and killed each other and not you (you only had to 'tap' them once to get kill credit/loot)? How many had 'timid' enemies that never shot back (before they fixed it), how many had 'static fields' that removed all enemies shields while you were in the clear? How many had 40 battleship level enemies stacked on top of one another in order to create a easy chain reaction explosion which took them all out leaving you to clean up the loot stack?
Yeah, none of that is exploiting the system...
How is that an exploit? The fleetmarks where a reward for time invested, now if someone found a way to bypass that time requirement, *that* would be an exploit....
Lost and Delirious... and Disenchanted too Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine?
So how about when they nerf the items you already pruchased from the stores? Do they refund what you spent on them (Lobi's, Zen, etc.)? No. Well that IMO is also an exploit, but in this case, it's an exploit of the players.
How long before you all wake up and realize what they are doing to us?
PWE/Cryptic stop the grinding maddness and bring back the fun!
Of all the top 'grinder' missions, how many had ships that shot at and killed each other and not you (you only had to 'tap' them once to get kill credit/loot)? How many had 'timid' enemies that never shot back (before they fixed it), how many had 'static fields' that removed all enemies shields while you were in the clear? How many had 40 battleship level enemies stacked on top of one another in order to create a easy chain reaction explosion which took them all out leaving you to clean up the loot stack?
Yeah, none of that is exploiting the system...
And are those missions suddenly gone?
Nope, the rewards were just lowered along with every single other mission. I never complained about the timid change, I never liked the fact that the exploity missions were somehow good for the daily, but to axe everything? Bah.
And they have gone on record as stating that currently even a well designed combat mission is ineligible for spotlight as only 'story' missions are accepted. Bah.
Don't tell me how to play your game. Exploits should be removed yes, but do not tell me story is the only thing that matters in UGC.
Of all the top 'grinder' missions, how many had ships that shot at and killed each other and not you (you only had to 'tap' them once to get kill credit/loot)? How many had 'timid' enemies that never shot back (before they fixed it), how many had 'static fields' that removed all enemies shields while you were in the clear? How many had 40 battleship level enemies stacked on top of one another in order to create a easy chain reaction explosion which took them all out leaving you to clean up the loot stack?
Yeah, none of that is exploiting the system...
Except it isn't.
You are referring to the creators of these missions, NOT the players. The players of said missions are the ones being punished for playing the missions that you refer to as an 'exploit'. They should not. They were utilizing the system the way Cryptic had designed it, and playing missions that were 'approved' for the IOR and to be in the Foundry in general.
The player base isn't exploiting anything here, yet they are the ones who bear the brunt of the nerfbat. Never mind changing the criteria for missions or the Foundry, 'we'll just nuke the reward'. Yeah, that's about as fantastic a solution as it was to remove DIL and drops from STF's.
Of all the top 'grinder' missions, how many had ships that shot at and killed each other and not you (you only had to 'tap' them once to get kill credit/loot)? How many had 'timid' enemies that never shot back (before they fixed it), how many had 'static fields' that removed all enemies shields while you were in the clear? How many had 40 battleship level enemies stacked on top of one another in order to create a easy chain reaction explosion which took them all out leaving you to clean up the loot stack?
Yeah, none of that is exploiting the system...
Once again, you cannot exploit a reward that has a set amount for a set time limit with a set cooldown. I don't know anyone who is able to get double rewards for the same 30 minute cooldown. There were no guidelines that said how an enemy needed to function or how much dialog you had to read. It's not an "Exploit" to play a mission to get its intended reward.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
So, did anyone test how these timescaled rewards work and if there's a limit to the rewards yet? It would be pretty hilarious if they provided the people who where into the boff grinders with something that requires even less work lol, just start the foundry mission, click on a console, go watch a movie for however long it takes to get max rewards and there you go:rolleyes:.
Lost and Delirious... and Disenchanted too Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine?
Nope, the rewards were just lowered along with every single other mission. I never complained about the timid change, I never liked the fact that the exploity missions were somehow good for the daily, but to axe everything? Bah.
And they have gone on record as stating that currently even a well designed combat mission is ineligible for spotlight as only 'story' missions are accepted. Bah.
Don't tell me how to play your game. Exploits should be removed yes, but do not tell me story is the only thing that matters in UGC.
My sentiments exactly.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
I understand why some want to blame the Foundry authors who complained their missions weren't being played. I do.
Because that would mean that Cryptic does listen to players and what they want, even if (this time) it was some other group that got their way. But hey, maybe next time they'll listen to us and give us what we want!
How much worse would it be to have to give up all hope, and accept they aren't listening to anyone?
It's so cute that you (still) believe that Cryptic listens to Foundry authors, or me, or you, or anyone but their bosses.
That's an overly cynical viewpoint. Cryptic may not listen to everything we have to say, but they also don't ignore us completely. Examples can be found everywhere, even in the most recent patch notes for instance:
- The Winter 2012 Fleet Project can now be cancelled.
- Federation and Klingon Starbases: The Winter 2012 Base Ornament will now start off as hidden after it is unlocked.
- Players who are dead while an Optional objective completes in a STF will now correctly receive the bonus marks.
All these changes are the result of complaints that first appeared on these forums.
While Cryptic does plenty of things to anger the playerbase, the foundry fleet mark debacle just being the most recent, I will never believe that they never listen to us.
Keep the foundry as it currently is with one change.
Take whatever Dilithum you get and divide that by 20 or 30 to get your Fleet Marks reward.
{snip}
This way we would still get a huge library of missions we can play, but still get fleet marks based on your new formula for Dilithum rewards.
I like it.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Oh, you mean like the BOff grinders that you can go AFK for 20 minutes and have a sammich while the game completes itself? And this is a time investment on your part how?
Well now you can go AFK and do other things and still get Dil over and over. So did it really change... I can play Mass Effect while simultaneously running STO in the background on an AFK if I wanted... It's not going to stop AFKers, they will just find something else that is gonig to impact others on team missions.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
That's an overly cynical viewpoint. Cryptic may not listen to everything we have to say, but they also don't ignore us completely. Examples can be found everywhere, even in the most recent patch notes for instance:
- The Winter 2012 Fleet Project can now be cancelled.
- Federation and Klingon Starbases: The Winter 2012 Base Ornament will now start off as hidden after it is unlocked.
- Players who are dead while an Optional objective completes in a STF will now correctly receive the bonus marks.
All these changes are the result of complaints that first appeared on these forums.
While Cryptic does plenty of things to anger the playerbase, the foundry fleet mark debacle just being the most recent, I will never believe that they never listen to us.
Oh, you mean like the BOff grinders that you can go AFK for 20 minutes and have a sammich while the game completes itself? And this is a time investment on your part how?
Simple, I logged onto STO, then didn't do any STF's or something I enjoy in the game (less and less these day's unfortunately) and had to wait till they where over. Well, if I ever did investigate officers reports in the first place, which I didn't because I play for enjoyment and not to play a slave grinding away at fleetmark's. But even if I did, do you decide how I handle a mission? What's next, you want away teams disabled in the foundry too??
Lost and Delirious... and Disenchanted too Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine?
That's an overly cynical viewpoint. Cryptic may not listen to everything we have to say, but they also don't ignore us completely. Examples can be found everywhere, even in the most recent patch notes for instance:
- The Winter 2012 Fleet Project can now be cancelled.
- Federation and Klingon Starbases: The Winter 2012 Base Ornament will now start off as hidden after it is unlocked.
- Players who are dead while an Optional objective completes in a STF will now correctly receive the bonus marks.
All these changes are the result of complaints that first appeared on these forums.
While Cryptic does plenty of things to anger the playerbase, the foundry fleet mark debacle just being the most recent, I will never believe that they never listen to us.
They listen just like they listened after season 7 launch... and as for foundry authors a few of them were on a mission to hound the devs through every media/contact channel they had access to from twitter to email. They even posted as much in the foundry forum section.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
I have an answer to the AFK issue. It's really simple. Right now the disconnect timer is 60 idle minutes and then you are disconnected. Well change the timer to 10 minutes and make sure all Foundry missions are a minimum of 20 minutes. That way if you go AFK you get disconnected at 10 minutes and get no rewards.
It's just changing an alreay existing value in the code on the servers.
Simple. Probelm of the AFK's getting rewards solved...
Time to address the real issue....
PWE/Cryptic stop the grinding madness and bring back the fun!
Don't worry , it's also cute that the last 3 major nerfs that some foundry authors advocated just happen to occur one after the other .
I'll see your "3 major nerfs" and raise you three years that pretty much every Klingon player, ever, has been shouting for more. You think that Cryptic is going to ignore all of that, yet leap to do the bidding of a handful of purist mission authors?
PWE and Cryptic are going to do as they please, just as they always have. None of us gets a vote, except with our feet.
Cryptic doesn't have the manpower to police every single mission that is created. We can build exploit missions way faster that they can pull them.
So the solution was to penalize everyone because a few chose to abuse the system - and we as players are now paying the price for massively supporting said abusive/exploit missions.
Again, the solution is to increase rewards for official fleet content - make something the playebase can't abuse into the easiest way to generate Fleet Marks.
Do you even read what you write?! Penalize, police, seriously?? Though this was a game, not some Eastern Europe nation in the 80's.
Lost and Delirious... and Disenchanted too Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine?
It's a point that Klingon faction has been a money losing venture for the game and the attitude is if you build it it they will come. Maybe they will but when deciding to make a produc,t you want to make it for where you have a chance to sell the most and thats been the feds. PVP in this game has been bad all along but so is balance which is key to PVP. I play PVP but it needs a major rewrite just like the klingon faction and since those are areas that are not heavily played in this game they always get the backseat to everything else that needs done. It has nothing to do with listening and everything to do with profit and resources.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
Wait, I thought everything was working as intended?
You mean its NOT?!
To see what bugs have been in game since beta on the KDF side, and since.((Click the siggy.))
So please don't say they listen. They don't listen, they never listen. We've begged and pleaded, asked questions and got called trolls for it. ((Thanks for that D.Stahl.))
I have an answer to the AFK issue. It's really simple. Right now the disconnect timer is 60 idle minutes and then you are disconnected. Well change the timer to 10 minutes and make sure all Foundry missions are a minimum of 20 minutes. That way if you go AFK you get disconnected at 10 minutes and get no rewards.
It's just changing an alreay existing value in the code on the servers.
Simple. Probelm of the AFK's getting rewards solved...
Time to address the real issue....
PWE/Cryptic stop the grinding madness and bring back the fun!
Zeus
I have a solution to that fix already, make a macro that presses a key (can be anything) every 5 minutes....
Lost and Delirious... and Disenchanted too Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine?
It's a point that Klingon faction has been a money losing venture for the game and the attitude is if you build it it they will come. Maybe they will but when deciding to make a produc,t you want to make it for where you have a chance to sell the most and thats been the feds. PVP in this game has been bad all along but so is balance which is key to PVP. I play PVP but it needs a major rewrite just like the klingon faction and since those are areas that are not heavily played in this game they always get the backseat to everything else that needs done. It has nothing to do with listening and everything to do with profit and resources.
Really because Fleet marks cost what money....no that is Dil, which you use to get projects done in fleet base as well as FM so if I want more people spending money on DIl, then I want them to have lots of FM to get those projects done fast so they spend more money....especially small fleets who will most likely spend money to keep up with bigger fleets.
I was curious so I just played a boff grinder and got 754 dilithium for eating a bean burrito.
Funny, but really not the cause of this whole debacle - Fleet Marks are a pain to come by and their use as Foundry rewards has made Foundry content artificially popular - they needed to be pulled from being associated with Foundry content and put back in somewhere else, unfortunately Cryptic only did the first part.
Dilithium and ECs you can get easily enough elsewhere but the bundle of Dil/ECs/FM all for a few minutes of pewpew was something a lot of people got used to.
Cryptic doesn't have the manpower to police every single mission that is created. We can build exploit missions way faster that they can pull them.
So the solution was to penalize everyone because a few chose to abuse the system - and we as players are now paying the price for massively supporting said abusive/exploit missions.
Again, the solution is to increase rewards for official fleet content - make something the playebase can't abuse into the easiest way to generate Fleet Marks.
So if PWE/Cryptic wants us to play only Fleet events to get Fleet marks then why don't they actually give us a reward of Fleet marks instead of the the current tease of Fleet Marks?
I mean really ... less than 25 Fleet Marks on the average for most all of the Fleet events. And PWE/Cryptic you think that is enough to keep players doing them?
PWE/Cryptic stop the grinding, bring back the fun!
I have an answer to the AFK issue. It's really simple. Right now the disconnect timer is 60 idle minutes and then you are disconnected. Well change the timer to 10 minutes and make sure all Foundry missions are a minimum of 20 minutes. That way if you go AFK you get disconnected at 10 minutes and get no rewards.
It's just changing an alreay existing value in the code on the servers.
Simple. Probelm of the AFK's getting rewards solved...
Time to address the real issue....
PWE/Cryptic stop the grinding madness and bring back the fun!
Zeus
People have been overcoming that AFK 'timer' for years, even using the 'penny arcade' method to stay logged in. I remember a certain NC game where they had an Event that gave you something for being 'in game' for a certain period of time. Like say every 30 minutes this item would appear in your inventory automatically.
People were jumping in corners over and over for weeks at all hours of the day while that event was going on. I applaud your idea, but it has been defeated before.
I don't even see why they call them fleet events, they are filled as randomly as STF's. How about you get 50 fleetmarks on top of the normal rewards if you do an Elite with a team comprising of your fleet members? That would actually make fleet members play together, inspire them to become good at them too. Maybe 75 for ground elites, so that people actually do that instead of ISE again...
Lost and Delirious... and Disenchanted too Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine?
So how about the person or persons at PWE/Cryptic that seem to enjoy on-line grinding (err I mean boring game play), design a new space based "farming" game and leave STO to the devs that enjoy space battles and flying Starships?
In fact why don't they just remove the grinding (Fleet bases and Embassy bases) so we all play the story lines again?
Maybe the story lines got forgotten by them since we went to grinding on the "farm"
PWE/Cryptic stop the grinding, bring back the fun!
Comments
Honestly any mission that is teamed should award FMs especially PVP.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
Nah hes busy written up a report on the change to try to smooth over everyone.. just watch is comin..
How is that an exploit? The fleetmarks where a reward for time invested, now if someone found a way to bypass that time requirement, *that* would be an exploit....
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
How long before you all wake up and realize what they are doing to us?
PWE/Cryptic stop the grinding maddness and bring back the fun!
Zeus
And are those missions suddenly gone?
Nope, the rewards were just lowered along with every single other mission. I never complained about the timid change, I never liked the fact that the exploity missions were somehow good for the daily, but to axe everything? Bah.
And they have gone on record as stating that currently even a well designed combat mission is ineligible for spotlight as only 'story' missions are accepted. Bah.
Don't tell me how to play your game. Exploits should be removed yes, but do not tell me story is the only thing that matters in UGC.
Except it isn't.
You are referring to the creators of these missions, NOT the players. The players of said missions are the ones being punished for playing the missions that you refer to as an 'exploit'. They should not. They were utilizing the system the way Cryptic had designed it, and playing missions that were 'approved' for the IOR and to be in the Foundry in general.
The player base isn't exploiting anything here, yet they are the ones who bear the brunt of the nerfbat. Never mind changing the criteria for missions or the Foundry, 'we'll just nuke the reward'. Yeah, that's about as fantastic a solution as it was to remove DIL and drops from STF's.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The o3 - Killed you good
Once again, you cannot exploit a reward that has a set amount for a set time limit with a set cooldown. I don't know anyone who is able to get double rewards for the same 30 minute cooldown. There were no guidelines that said how an enemy needed to function or how much dialog you had to read. It's not an "Exploit" to play a mission to get its intended reward.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
My sentiments exactly.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
Don't worry , it's also cute that the last 3 major nerfs that some foundry authors advocated just happen to occur one after the other .
Purple lirpaz ? You haz them ?? What a perfect coincidence ... . :rolleyes:
Because that would mean that Cryptic does listen to players and what they want, even if (this time) it was some other group that got their way. But hey, maybe next time they'll listen to us and give us what we want!
How much worse would it be to have to give up all hope, and accept they aren't listening to anyone?
That's an overly cynical viewpoint. Cryptic may not listen to everything we have to say, but they also don't ignore us completely. Examples can be found everywhere, even in the most recent patch notes for instance:
- The Winter 2012 Fleet Project can now be cancelled.
- Federation and Klingon Starbases: The Winter 2012 Base Ornament will now start off as hidden after it is unlocked.
- Players who are dead while an Optional objective completes in a STF will now correctly receive the bonus marks.
All these changes are the result of complaints that first appeared on these forums.
While Cryptic does plenty of things to anger the playerbase, the foundry fleet mark debacle just being the most recent, I will never believe that they never listen to us.
I like it.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Well now you can go AFK and do other things and still get Dil over and over. So did it really change... I can play Mass Effect while simultaneously running STO in the background on an AFK if I wanted... It's not going to stop AFKers, they will just find something else that is gonig to impact others on team missions.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
Any Klingons and Pvpers want to take this one?
Simple, I logged onto STO, then didn't do any STF's or something I enjoy in the game (less and less these day's unfortunately) and had to wait till they where over. Well, if I ever did investigate officers reports in the first place, which I didn't because I play for enjoyment and not to play a slave grinding away at fleetmark's. But even if I did, do you decide how I handle a mission? What's next, you want away teams disabled in the foundry too??
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
They listen just like they listened after season 7 launch... and as for foundry authors a few of them were on a mission to hound the devs through every media/contact channel they had access to from twitter to email. They even posted as much in the foundry forum section.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
It's just changing an alreay existing value in the code on the servers.
Simple. Probelm of the AFK's getting rewards solved...
Time to address the real issue....
PWE/Cryptic stop the grinding madness and bring back the fun!
Zeus
PWE and Cryptic are going to do as they please, just as they always have. None of us gets a vote, except with our feet.
That beats a trip to SFA where I have to google the answer to a quiz.
Somehow I think the talk of a massive Foundry "nerf" is hyped.
Do you even read what you write?! Penalize, police, seriously?? Though this was a game, not some Eastern Europe nation in the 80's.
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's a point that Klingon faction has been a money losing venture for the game and the attitude is if you build it it they will come. Maybe they will but when deciding to make a produc,t you want to make it for where you have a chance to sell the most and thats been the feds. PVP in this game has been bad all along but so is balance which is key to PVP. I play PVP but it needs a major rewrite just like the klingon faction and since those are areas that are not heavily played in this game they always get the backseat to everything else that needs done. It has nothing to do with listening and everything to do with profit and resources.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
Wait, I thought everything was working as intended?
You mean its NOT?!
To see what bugs have been in game since beta on the KDF side, and since.((Click the siggy.))
So please don't say they listen. They don't listen, they never listen. We've begged and pleaded, asked questions and got called trolls for it. ((Thanks for that D.Stahl.))
I have a solution to that fix already, make a macro that presses a key (can be anything) every 5 minutes....
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Really because Fleet marks cost what money....no that is Dil, which you use to get projects done in fleet base as well as FM so if I want more people spending money on DIl, then I want them to have lots of FM to get those projects done fast so they spend more money....especially small fleets who will most likely spend money to keep up with bigger fleets.
Funny, but really not the cause of this whole debacle - Fleet Marks are a pain to come by and their use as Foundry rewards has made Foundry content artificially popular - they needed to be pulled from being associated with Foundry content and put back in somewhere else, unfortunately Cryptic only did the first part.
Dilithium and ECs you can get easily enough elsewhere but the bundle of Dil/ECs/FM all for a few minutes of pewpew was something a lot of people got used to.
So if PWE/Cryptic wants us to play only Fleet events to get Fleet marks then why don't they actually give us a reward of Fleet marks instead of the the current tease of Fleet Marks?
I mean really ... less than 25 Fleet Marks on the average for most all of the Fleet events. And PWE/Cryptic you think that is enough to keep players doing them?
PWE/Cryptic stop the grinding, bring back the fun!
Zeus
People have been overcoming that AFK 'timer' for years, even using the 'penny arcade' method to stay logged in. I remember a certain NC game where they had an Event that gave you something for being 'in game' for a certain period of time. Like say every 30 minutes this item would appear in your inventory automatically.
People were jumping in corners over and over for weeks at all hours of the day while that event was going on. I applaud your idea, but it has been defeated before.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The o3 - Killed you good
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
So how about the person or persons at PWE/Cryptic that seem to enjoy on-line grinding (err I mean boring game play), design a new space based "farming" game and leave STO to the devs that enjoy space battles and flying Starships?
In fact why don't they just remove the grinding (Fleet bases and Embassy bases) so we all play the story lines again?
Maybe the story lines got forgotten by them since we went to grinding on the "farm"
PWE/Cryptic stop the grinding, bring back the fun!
Zeus