Why would you people do this same mistake again?!!! you are once again making the foundry unapealling to anyone with a limited time to play. not everyone sits athome all day on STO in their underware eating hot pockets and doing 1-4 hour foundry missions. With the LIMITED TIME we have to try and enjoy the game. the constant grind to rep up a character or two. then restock on omega and romulan marks, then.. a couple of STFs with fleet members to help them do the same. jump out to run daily missions for fleet marks. then.. do the daily officer reports IF THERE IS TIME. to try and keep our fleet starbase wich wasnt bad enough.. the Embassy comes along to rob HAlf of those fleet marks. and a rep system to cut even more time out of my playing time.. Those 50 fleet marks are needed in the play of the game.. Needed to allow our fleet to continue to rep up both fleet holdings.. which is alot. Cryptic, This is an alienation move if Ive every seen one. Have you lost this much touch with your own fan base?
What about my rewards! Pre-patch, I had three "Investigate officer reports" dailies completed (one on each character) with unclaimed rewards! I log in after the patch, and the mission is gone, and I am simply "out" 50 fleet marks and 960 dilithium on each toon?
Sad you all didn't take this into account before wiping this mission across the board...
It's not being snobish. It simply demonstrates an understanding on their part of how Cryptic intends fleets to work and their willingness to play as a fleet within that framework. I consider it snobbish of those who think that the fleet holding system needs to change to accomodate them because they don't want to do what needs to be done to play it in its current state.
I am all for giving small fleets a small outpost/facility that has tier-progression costs that are in line with what they can do as a small fleet. It won't be a massive Starbase like what large fleets can get. And large fleets would not be able to get a small outpost.
IF a small fleet WANTS to undertake a full-scale Starbase, then so be it. But the costs should remain balanced for large fleets and Small fleets must be made to understand this going in.
but cryptic never intended on giving small fleets a small base they wanted the same for everyone so that's how it ended up if that was the case we would have what you suggested already. plus that's a chance for exploitation all big fleets would have to do is decrease there size for a bit then bring back the members and bingo they have a base without the hassle of what you suggested.
Well looks like these greedy people will want you to buy Fleet marks for Zen. They also think people can play this Game 24 hours a day grind for fleet marks some people have to work so they can buy zen. Stop being stupid and put out some mission that take 15-20 minutes like the STF mission but give 60 fleet mark as rewards.
I went through most of this thread and I am amazed at the fact that there are some who defend CEs choices regarding the foundry.
Picture this:
I need fleet marks--> Choice a) Play Battle Royalex2 which is fun, fast, pewpewtastic, and get 100 FMs, 1960Dil, and energy credits from the loot.
Choice b) Play a crappy Fleet event with TRIBBLE pugs or half the team AFK, become frustrated and angry and earn 10-25 marks for your time and effort.
I don't even see the above as a choice. There was no choice and you Cryptic made it as such, not the players. And now you force people to endure those fleet events which reward a laughable amount of marks and for what?
Now everything will be even more grindy. That too is your design decision to make it more grindy than it already is,which way too much.
Have you thought about, say, lifers and subscribers who love playing 6-7 characters? You effectively force us to spend a whole day to get the equivalent amount of FMs we would get through IORs on many characters.
Well looks like these greedy people will want you to buy Fleet marks for Zen. They also think people can play this Game 24 hours a day grind for fleet marks some people have to work so they can buy zen. Stop being stupid and put out some mission that take 15-20 minutes like the STF mission but give 60 fleet mark as rewards.
You can't buy fleet marks with Zen.
They never said they were considering it.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Hot damn, what a looong thread. Wonder how many other threads were merged with this one, and how many times it got moved around XD.
I also noticed an amusing increase in the number of posts moderated towards the second half of the thread. First half, maybe one or two, second half... every 4th post or something insane like that XD. Good stuff.
All mockery aside, I am neither for this change or against it. I already have what I need fleet-wise on my main (dead fleet, we have 4 active members out of 30 or so total, NONE of them are alts, they all just went to SWTOR or quit entirely), and my KDF toon's fleet is almost dead (3 active members, LOL what a joke), but I don't really need fleet marks, since for the most part I don't use fleet stuff, since the best fleet gear is tier 5, the rest of it is a joke, and unfortunately, most of the tier 5 fleets aren't recruiting. Bummer.
Be that as it may, I can see how smaller lower tier fleets would be hurt by this, and I can't really condone that level of treatment, but at the same time, I can't really condemn it. When fleets first came out, cryptic made it clear that these were long term time and resource consuming features. They made it clear that fleet starbases were designed around fleets of 25+ members, and anything smaller would have trouble. They made it clear that this was a LONG TERM AND COSTLY INVESTMENT. And yet I constantly see people complaining that their tiny fleets are having trouble. And that they're being discriminated against. And so on and so forth. Um... DUH???? -.-
Anyways, back on topic, yeah, FMs are going to be a pain to get now, hopefully something is implemented that allows for easier acquisition.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Maybe not zen...but they need to consider other conversion opportunities.
How about letting me convert my Omega Marks to Fleet Marks? Or how about Romulan Marks? I have a ton of those sitting unused from the winter epohh projects. I'm done with the rep projects on all my alts and I've got just about all the gear I need as well. Giving me the ability to convert Omega or Romulan marks into fleet ones would provide me with incentive to continue playing those missions.
I was about to suggest letting us convert fleet credits to marks, like you can do for embassy provisions, but then you get into a round-robin situation because fleet marks actually provide fleet credits...
The bottom line is that we need more and better ways to get fleet marks.
Keep the foundry as it currently is with one change.
Take whatever Dilithum you get and divide that by 20 or 30 to get your Fleet Marks reward.
As of now there is no cooldown with the foundry (repeatable) missions, as before there was a 30 min cooldown. You were guaranteed a set amount of rewards, 50 FM, 960 Dil.
Now we get some exp and dil based on "average" time it takes to complete, whatever that means, I don't know the scale.
What I do know is that I did Battleship Royal Rumble, as I find it quick and fun, since The Corsairs - Part 1 just keeps getting removed for no "qualifying" for the now old repeatable, so at least I can do that mission again and get some reward and there is no cooldown either.
When I did Battleship Royal Rumble it took me about 16 mins to complete and I got 640 Dil, I don't even pay attention to exp as we are capped at level 51, and I have a ton of points to train my Boffs.
So take your Dil reward value that is determined by average time to complete the mission, and divide it by 20. I'd get 32 fleet marks, now that maybe to much (actually it's right about where the reward was before based on 960 dil / 20 = 48, ok so divide it by 30, so I get 21 fleet marks.
This way we would still get a huge library of missions we can play, but still get fleet marks based on your new formula for Dilithum rewards.
One thing is for sure, the foundry is basically dead now, offering no real incentive other then story and some dil. We are sick and tired of playing the same PvE Fleet Credit missions over and over and over. The best part of the Foundry is/was WE created the content, and yes I only played the missions that qualified for the daily rewards, now with your new system I can play EVERY mission I want with no cooldown, but you MUST bring back a scaling Fleet Marks reward in with our new reward calculations.
Please Cryptic be reading this thread and hear your player base.
By shifting this away from a system the playerbase can easily exploit, Cryptic has made the right decision.
Except it wasn't an exploit. An exploit would be something along the lines of not turning in missions until a specific time reaping large rewards.
This was just another (read: Optional) way of doing things. People still did Fleet Events, but there was something else to ease the grind, something else to do when fleet events got stale.
No choice now. I fail t osee how limiting player choice is a good decision.
Next some people will demand EC loot be nerfed, and that will be removed.
"Holy TRIBBLE, Season 10 (or whatever it will be called) introduced more grind. Better remove dilithium from the Foundry to preserve the 'purity and integrity' of the Foundry."
"People are only playing the Foundry Missions for XP. EXPLOIT!" The Nerfbat cometh.
Where does it end? Aren't their more pressing issues, like adding actual content to the game (instead of lockboxes and bunny tagging) and fixing 2 year old bugs?
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
The fleet marks need to be added back to the foundry missions ASAP, just my opinion
Stop changing things with the Foundry, trust me there are way more important things to do, I would rather they spend more time creating new lock boxes then messing with something that was working just fine
Okay so does everone here have the amount of time needed in each day to do what is required by PWE/Cryptic to "play" this game. No not really. Yes I understand that the Fleet bases are designed to take a long time and that they designed it for 25+ member Fleets, but why keep making it harder on the smaller fleets? What purpose does it do except to make more and more players in the small fleets just give up and move on. The "answer" is not to recruit more as the small fleets don't have anything to offer except grinding due to PWE/Cryptic designs. And trying to get into a large fleet is almost impossible. So if PWE/Crypic designed the Fleet system for 25+ members... why do they allow a fleet to be formed with only 5 members? Oh wait I know that answer.... the fleet concept was designed before the fleet bases back in a time when players made them to enjoy the game and do things together. If 5 was the number then, and by the way it still is the min. number now, then why did the devs design the fleet bases around the 25+ members number? Seems someone did not understand what fleets were and why they originally formed.
PWE/Cryptic please stop the grinding madness and bring back the fun!
Next some people will demand EC loot be nerfed, and that will be removed.
"Holy TRIBBLE, Season 10 (or whatever it will be called) introduced more grind. Better remove dilithium from the Foundry to preserve the 'purity and integrity' of the Foundry."
"People are only playing the Foundry Missions for XP. EXPLOIT!" The Nerfbat cometh!
It's so cute that you (still) believe that Cryptic listens to Foundry authors, or me, or you, or anyone but their bosses.
Of all the top 'grinder' missions, how many had ships that shot at and killed each other and not you (you only had to 'tap' them once to get kill credit/loot)? How many had 'timid' enemies that never shot back (before they fixed it), how many had 'static fields' that removed all enemies shields while you were in the clear? How many had 40 battleship level enemies stacked on top of one another in order to create a easy chain reaction explosion which took them all out leaving you to clean up the loot stack?
Yeah, none of that is exploiting the system...
'ZOMG! People are EXPLOITING the MIRROR EVENT for XP!!!'
Of all the top 'grinder' missions, how many had ships that shot at and killed each other and not you (you only had to 'tap' them once to get kill credit/loot)? How many had 'timid' enemies that never shot back (before they fixed it), how many had 'static fields' that removed all enemies shields while you were in the clear? How many had 40 battleship level enemies stacked on top of one another in order to create a easy chain reaction explosion which took them all out leaving you to clean up the loot stack?
Yeah, none of that is exploiting the system...
How is that an exploit? The fleetmarks where a reward for time invested, now if someone found a way to bypass that time requirement, *that* would be an exploit....
Lost and Delirious... and Disenchanted too Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine?
So how about when they nerf the items you already pruchased from the stores? Do they refund what you spent on them (Lobi's, Zen, etc.)? No. Well that IMO is also an exploit, but in this case, it's an exploit of the players.
How long before you all wake up and realize what they are doing to us?
PWE/Cryptic stop the grinding maddness and bring back the fun!
Of all the top 'grinder' missions, how many had ships that shot at and killed each other and not you (you only had to 'tap' them once to get kill credit/loot)? How many had 'timid' enemies that never shot back (before they fixed it), how many had 'static fields' that removed all enemies shields while you were in the clear? How many had 40 battleship level enemies stacked on top of one another in order to create a easy chain reaction explosion which took them all out leaving you to clean up the loot stack?
Yeah, none of that is exploiting the system...
And are those missions suddenly gone?
Nope, the rewards were just lowered along with every single other mission. I never complained about the timid change, I never liked the fact that the exploity missions were somehow good for the daily, but to axe everything? Bah.
And they have gone on record as stating that currently even a well designed combat mission is ineligible for spotlight as only 'story' missions are accepted. Bah.
Don't tell me how to play your game. Exploits should be removed yes, but do not tell me story is the only thing that matters in UGC.
Of all the top 'grinder' missions, how many had ships that shot at and killed each other and not you (you only had to 'tap' them once to get kill credit/loot)? How many had 'timid' enemies that never shot back (before they fixed it), how many had 'static fields' that removed all enemies shields while you were in the clear? How many had 40 battleship level enemies stacked on top of one another in order to create a easy chain reaction explosion which took them all out leaving you to clean up the loot stack?
Yeah, none of that is exploiting the system...
Except it isn't.
You are referring to the creators of these missions, NOT the players. The players of said missions are the ones being punished for playing the missions that you refer to as an 'exploit'. They should not. They were utilizing the system the way Cryptic had designed it, and playing missions that were 'approved' for the IOR and to be in the Foundry in general.
The player base isn't exploiting anything here, yet they are the ones who bear the brunt of the nerfbat. Never mind changing the criteria for missions or the Foundry, 'we'll just nuke the reward'. Yeah, that's about as fantastic a solution as it was to remove DIL and drops from STF's.
Of all the top 'grinder' missions, how many had ships that shot at and killed each other and not you (you only had to 'tap' them once to get kill credit/loot)? How many had 'timid' enemies that never shot back (before they fixed it), how many had 'static fields' that removed all enemies shields while you were in the clear? How many had 40 battleship level enemies stacked on top of one another in order to create a easy chain reaction explosion which took them all out leaving you to clean up the loot stack?
Yeah, none of that is exploiting the system...
Once again, you cannot exploit a reward that has a set amount for a set time limit with a set cooldown. I don't know anyone who is able to get double rewards for the same 30 minute cooldown. There were no guidelines that said how an enemy needed to function or how much dialog you had to read. It's not an "Exploit" to play a mission to get its intended reward.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
Comments
i dontthink anyone should tell him that youget even less dilithium now thanbefore...
How are small KDF fleets supposed to get fleet marks AT the keyboard?
Roll your eyes across that question.
One hour waits for fleet action queues is not going to work.
Sad you all didn't take this into account before wiping this mission across the board...
Thanks Cryptic!
but cryptic never intended on giving small fleets a small base they wanted the same for everyone so that's how it ended up if that was the case we would have what you suggested already. plus that's a chance for exploitation all big fleets would have to do is decrease there size for a bit then bring back the members and bingo they have a base without the hassle of what you suggested.
***Disenchanted***
Real Join Date: Monday, 17 May 2010
Picture this:
I need fleet marks--> Choice a) Play Battle Royalex2 which is fun, fast, pewpewtastic, and get 100 FMs, 1960Dil, and energy credits from the loot.
Choice b) Play a crappy Fleet event with TRIBBLE pugs or half the team AFK, become frustrated and angry and earn 10-25 marks for your time and effort.
I don't even see the above as a choice. There was no choice and you Cryptic made it as such, not the players. And now you force people to endure those fleet events which reward a laughable amount of marks and for what?
Now everything will be even more grindy. That too is your design decision to make it more grindy than it already is,which way too much.
Have you thought about, say, lifers and subscribers who love playing 6-7 characters? You effectively force us to spend a whole day to get the equivalent amount of FMs we would get through IORs on many characters.
My two cents
You can't buy fleet marks with Zen.
They never said they were considering it.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I also noticed an amusing increase in the number of posts moderated towards the second half of the thread. First half, maybe one or two, second half... every 4th post or something insane like that XD. Good stuff.
All mockery aside, I am neither for this change or against it. I already have what I need fleet-wise on my main (dead fleet, we have 4 active members out of 30 or so total, NONE of them are alts, they all just went to SWTOR or quit entirely), and my KDF toon's fleet is almost dead (3 active members, LOL what a joke), but I don't really need fleet marks, since for the most part I don't use fleet stuff, since the best fleet gear is tier 5, the rest of it is a joke, and unfortunately, most of the tier 5 fleets aren't recruiting. Bummer.
Be that as it may, I can see how smaller lower tier fleets would be hurt by this, and I can't really condone that level of treatment, but at the same time, I can't really condemn it. When fleets first came out, cryptic made it clear that these were long term time and resource consuming features. They made it clear that fleet starbases were designed around fleets of 25+ members, and anything smaller would have trouble. They made it clear that this was a LONG TERM AND COSTLY INVESTMENT. And yet I constantly see people complaining that their tiny fleets are having trouble. And that they're being discriminated against. And so on and so forth. Um... DUH???? -.-
Anyways, back on topic, yeah, FMs are going to be a pain to get now, hopefully something is implemented that allows for easier acquisition.
Not yet but you wait and see!
Maybe not zen...but they need to consider other conversion opportunities.
How about letting me convert my Omega Marks to Fleet Marks? Or how about Romulan Marks? I have a ton of those sitting unused from the winter epohh projects. I'm done with the rep projects on all my alts and I've got just about all the gear I need as well. Giving me the ability to convert Omega or Romulan marks into fleet ones would provide me with incentive to continue playing those missions.
I was about to suggest letting us convert fleet credits to marks, like you can do for embassy provisions, but then you get into a round-robin situation because fleet marks actually provide fleet credits...
The bottom line is that we need more and better ways to get fleet marks.
A lightbulb just went off above D.Stahls head....
Keep the foundry as it currently is with one change.
Take whatever Dilithum you get and divide that by 20 or 30 to get your Fleet Marks reward.
As of now there is no cooldown with the foundry (repeatable) missions, as before there was a 30 min cooldown. You were guaranteed a set amount of rewards, 50 FM, 960 Dil.
Now we get some exp and dil based on "average" time it takes to complete, whatever that means, I don't know the scale.
What I do know is that I did Battleship Royal Rumble, as I find it quick and fun, since The Corsairs - Part 1 just keeps getting removed for no "qualifying" for the now old repeatable, so at least I can do that mission again and get some reward and there is no cooldown either.
When I did Battleship Royal Rumble it took me about 16 mins to complete and I got 640 Dil, I don't even pay attention to exp as we are capped at level 51, and I have a ton of points to train my Boffs.
So take your Dil reward value that is determined by average time to complete the mission, and divide it by 20. I'd get 32 fleet marks, now that maybe to much (actually it's right about where the reward was before based on 960 dil / 20 = 48, ok so divide it by 30, so I get 21 fleet marks.
This way we would still get a huge library of missions we can play, but still get fleet marks based on your new formula for Dilithum rewards.
One thing is for sure, the foundry is basically dead now, offering no real incentive other then story and some dil. We are sick and tired of playing the same PvE Fleet Credit missions over and over and over. The best part of the Foundry is/was WE created the content, and yes I only played the missions that qualified for the daily rewards, now with your new system I can play EVERY mission I want with no cooldown, but you MUST bring back a scaling Fleet Marks reward in with our new reward calculations.
Please Cryptic be reading this thread and hear your player base.
Well it would solve the one man fleets who want everything a big fleet has....sure you can have it...but you gotta pay.
Except it wasn't an exploit. An exploit would be something along the lines of not turning in missions until a specific time reaping large rewards.
This was just another (read: Optional) way of doing things. People still did Fleet Events, but there was something else to ease the grind, something else to do when fleet events got stale.
No choice now. I fail t osee how limiting player choice is a good decision.
Next some people will demand EC loot be nerfed, and that will be removed.
"Holy TRIBBLE, Season 10 (or whatever it will be called) introduced more grind. Better remove dilithium from the Foundry to preserve the 'purity and integrity' of the Foundry."
"People are only playing the Foundry Missions for XP. EXPLOIT!" The Nerfbat cometh.
Where does it end? Aren't their more pressing issues, like adding actual content to the game (instead of lockboxes and bunny tagging) and fixing 2 year old bugs?
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Stop changing things with the Foundry, trust me there are way more important things to do, I would rather they spend more time creating new lock boxes then messing with something that was working just fine
PWE/Cryptic please stop the grinding madness and bring back the fun!
Zeus
It's so cute that you (still) believe that Cryptic listens to Foundry authors, or me, or you, or anyone but their bosses.
How's that Klingon content coming? "Soon." Right.
'ZOMG! People are EXPLOITING the MIRROR EVENT for XP!!!'
'We need to remove it ASAP!!!'
Nerfhammer ho!
Honestly any mission that is teamed should award FMs especially PVP.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
Nah hes busy written up a report on the change to try to smooth over everyone.. just watch is comin..
How is that an exploit? The fleetmarks where a reward for time invested, now if someone found a way to bypass that time requirement, *that* would be an exploit....
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
How long before you all wake up and realize what they are doing to us?
PWE/Cryptic stop the grinding maddness and bring back the fun!
Zeus
And are those missions suddenly gone?
Nope, the rewards were just lowered along with every single other mission. I never complained about the timid change, I never liked the fact that the exploity missions were somehow good for the daily, but to axe everything? Bah.
And they have gone on record as stating that currently even a well designed combat mission is ineligible for spotlight as only 'story' missions are accepted. Bah.
Don't tell me how to play your game. Exploits should be removed yes, but do not tell me story is the only thing that matters in UGC.
Except it isn't.
You are referring to the creators of these missions, NOT the players. The players of said missions are the ones being punished for playing the missions that you refer to as an 'exploit'. They should not. They were utilizing the system the way Cryptic had designed it, and playing missions that were 'approved' for the IOR and to be in the Foundry in general.
The player base isn't exploiting anything here, yet they are the ones who bear the brunt of the nerfbat. Never mind changing the criteria for missions or the Foundry, 'we'll just nuke the reward'. Yeah, that's about as fantastic a solution as it was to remove DIL and drops from STF's.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The o3 - Killed you good
Once again, you cannot exploit a reward that has a set amount for a set time limit with a set cooldown. I don't know anyone who is able to get double rewards for the same 30 minute cooldown. There were no guidelines that said how an enemy needed to function or how much dialog you had to read. It's not an "Exploit" to play a mission to get its intended reward.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010