Everyone defending these things just shows how mindless and lazy people are. Its a game and it should challenge you in intellect and skill. Using a I can kill anything item takes all the challenge out of the game. Might as well stick a game genie in your disk drive you window lickers.
People cry waa waa the game is to hard I cant do it yet I can breeze through all the pve content practically sleeping even when the skill tree was more complicated and made people think on how to build a ship more.
These mines are just another way to stupid proof and lazy proof this game. I bet a monkey can play this game now.
Oh wow...better re-read the rules again before I actually post this, how much profanity is allowed?
...Tricobalt mines...hmmm...tricobalt mines...
* doo doo doo doo. Welcome to Q and A with Jamo! *
Why is it Jamo, that so many people are q_qing about these getting nerfed?
Because they're so good at destroying NPCs and players of course.
Hmmm, why is it then, that we saw such a large amount of the playerbase using these when mines got a buff?
Because they are crazy overpowered, whether it be in PvP or PvE.
Alrighty. How come Cryptic needs people's input before nerfing THIS particular item?
That would most likely be because they know full well that it is overpowered and they want to be able to gague how many players will stop playing the STFs because they'll actually begin to take some effort without trics destroying everything on the map instantly.
Interesting, and finally, how much do you think this will affect the PvP community?
I believe it will lead to more people queueing up. You see, players were previously discouraged not only by pre-made teams rolling but also by players tric mining the spawns and getting instapopped by these projectiles.
Do you have any overall comment about tric mines?
SMACK THEM WITH THE NERF BAT!
Players need to learn how to play, not have the short cut handed to them on a noob-encircled platter.
Why should PvEers get off easy and spam trics for insta PvE wins, when for the PvP community, all they are is a griefing tool whose amusement factor wore off long ago.
I for one, never saw anything wrong with Tricobalts. I am one of the many who never PvP, not even once, and have no intention to start. Instead, I use my spare time in STF Elites. There, the Heavy Tricobalt actually is quite useful, and indeed well appreciated.
I find that Heavy Tricobalt is most valuable against Donatra after she cloaks. The amount of unshielded damage helps significantly, and also helps you get an idea of her location when she uncloaks so you can be far away.
So for us pure STF'ers, I think best to leave Tricobalt the way it is. If you weaken it, then there will no longer be a reason for us to use it anymore, the Borg will kill us even faster, we will eventually spend a minute or more before we can respawn, and Elite STFs in general will last even longer than they already do.
I can TRIBBLE and take out Donatra no mines might take a bit longer (maybe) but I found out a way to beat her no I win button... Yea that is right I used my brain...!
BTW takes a good team of good players 5 min to do a elite stf no trics about 1 min with lol
What will you guys do in pvps if the big fleets decide to say **** it you want tric spam you get it and drive you pugs to the spawn and spawn camp the **** out of you with tric spam o yay how fun. Yes we know ho to use them to the extreme! Your so called defenses are worthless use all the tbr faw ect you want you will still get owned for 100k+ damage.
Then you say they will be worthless if they nerf them a bit. I will ask you how so why will they be worthless? You don't think they will do 300k damage or more to a hull of a npc ship?
OMG now you have to actually take the shields down on your target and not just heal tank and drop mines and watch as it hits the tac cube and does 1 mill damage to it and go omg I am so good at this game I am sto god.
I will refer you to a star trek movie called first contact watch it then tell me how much torps cannons beams ect it took to kill one regular cube. Now tell me more on why you need to be able to one shot one?
Oh, and if you can tell me how to reliably survive 600k worth of damage, delivered all at once, I would love to hear it.
Answer to poster:
Shoot it down.
Yeah, shoot down mines when you're placated, etc.
And mines that require an Intrepid w/ Ablative Armor enabled and buffed with PH, HE, to survive just one hit (and lose Ablative Armor, and subsequently die from the secondary and tertiary hits)!
How about you guys learn to play the game instead?
How about your PvE fleet learn how to beat pugs without Trics?
It's so telling that the only people defending this garbage are PvEers that couldn't solo a Cube, or guys in PvE fleets that troll queues with Tric mines. Guys you would never see in the queues before the introduction of these buffs, but now you see regularly.
No wonder they fight so hard to not get them nerfed. They can't do **** without them!
And if anyone ever says, lol PvEers are the poor abused puppies, while PvPers are the mean nasty grinches! Just point them to this thread.
And see how hard headed most of the PvEers are in this thread! No matter the evidence presented, or the fact that adjustments to prevent one shots would still leave them viable in PvE, most of them still insist nothing be done!
Why even play PvE if you can faceroll it so easily with DPB Trics? If you hate PvP so much, why would you want your time to be even more of a joke in PvE?
I understand the PvE angle and emphasizing how easy these make an already largely brainless exercise. That being said, if the Devs don't mind marginalizing their PvE endgame and allowing a single mechanics to bypass objectives more quickly than expected then fine. Anyone who has played against these things know how difficult it is to target them, that AoE weapons don't hit them when they are cloaked, that other mechanics can stack and make them virtually invisible, that they are shielded by NPCs, that you can be completely disabled with no defensive options and that, in spite of what some folks suggest, it isn't that hard to use effectively.
Seriously, months ago I got popped a few times in a cap and hold. I went to ESD, loaded a couple of blue mk x tric mines with a single dispersal pattern beta and the next match was so full of laughs until they turned into frustrated tears. You know what I did? I saw a b'rel, loaded DP:Beta and flew in a little circle. They couldn't see it when it activated and they died gloriously. Repeatedly. Even whdn thry got wise all I had to do was fly at my own mines and slow down.
Long story short, spare me the nonsense about how significant the opportunity cost is or what incredible planning goes into dropping a couple of mines that will very likely chain crit a target (or 3, yes, 3) in one shot.
That being said, before things get too out of hand I'll just spin this old broken record one more time. Make Tric mines dangerous to the person deploying them. Other mines and heavy torps damage a user who gets too close so these should too. Pets that drop the should be effected by them as with the carrier that deployed the pets. I'm not saying that the user should trigger the explosion but if they are in range they should feel it just as the target. Make them risky like Tric Torps used to be. And when possible, see if the software team can work on chain crits or the potential issue with mines from the same Dispersal Pattern detonating one another.
This doesn't have to be a total rework or nerf if we can create an actual opportunity cost and add some risk.
__________________________________________
Foundry: Yet Another Borg Mission
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
May not actually be "way" cooler or even "slightly" cooler.
I loved my build and i made it specificly for STFs though i never bothered to fully max all the dmg out on it as 1mill in a pass i think does the job. STF wise it honestly needs to be left alone for the most part. In KAE it allowed me to take low dps groups and still get the optional. People could then play the ships they wanted low dmg or other wise without getting gipped for cryptics poor idea of gameplay.
I could take 3 cubes, 12 generators, 3 transformers, while 3 guys killed 1 cube 4 genrators 1 transformer and probes, leaving last guy to get probes on other side. Then i could fly back blow 30-50% off the gate in a pass and continue on from there.
Thanks for providing a great example of how very broken they are in PvE, which is after all the reason they are being fixed.
That being said, before things get too out of hand I'll just spin this old broken record one more time. Make Tric mines dangerous to the person deploying them. Other mines and heavy torps damage a user who gets too close so these should too. Pets that drop the should be effected by them as with the carrier that deployed the pets. I'm not saying that the user should trigger the explosion but if they are in range they should feel it just as the target. Make them risky like Tric Torps used to be. And when possible, see if the software team can work on chain crits or the potential issue with mines from the same Dispersal Pattern detonating one another.
I've suggested this before as well. While its not a perfect fix, it would make things consistent with how other high damage projectiles are treated and force the tric bombers to actually employ some of this supposed "strategy" they always go on about to not get caught up in their own mines.
_________________________ TRIBBLE | -Show Me Your Critz- Svarog | Veles | et al.
Tric mines are so easy to kill someone. Instant kills often enough. Drop plasma, drop mind..watch him die..its really easy...i would suspect that if everyone does it..there is no way to counter..thats my only issue
That thread did not have an enormous flood of PvE'ers trying to justify the extreme spike damage Tricobalt Mines with dispersal patterns are capable of delivering.
The PvPers who have been consistent on this thread, can perhaps use that post mentioned above to enforce a feedback logically applicable to Borticus and the Devs to work off of.
Because a systematic change to multiple mechanics in the game won't have any effect on non-PvP players right?
Not in any unreasonable way.
You really shouldn't be able to faceroll PvE content more than you do already.
Tric mines will still pack a punch even with the nerf. Just learn to debuff targets and use 'em. You will still deal a lot of damage, only now they will be less stupid in PvP. They're so stupidly overpowered right now that you need an Intrepid w/ Ablative Armor enabled, PH, HE activated just to survive one Tric from a DPB pattern release. And you still die to the other mines anyway after your armor is stunned off.
I was under the impression that the core problem of (Tricobalt) mines was the phenomenon of "linked crits", i.e. if one mine of a dispersal pattern crits, they all crit.
Does this behaviour still exist?
So instead of fixing the problem ... they work around it with nerfs?
So instead of fixing the problem ... they work around it with nerfs?
... if so ... ::: klingon facepalm ...
Well that is only if the behaviour is considered to not be working as intended.
Frankly the Current devs have a long history of ignoring what devs have done in the past seemingly quite on purpose. (I am assuming this has to do with terrible note keeping by previous staff... still... sometimes they need to really think through why things work the way they do) I am sure the origional engine developers made the choice to link critical calcs on over time dmg to reduce server load.
In Some other MMOs... DOT dmg / over time or Condition dmg or what ever we want to call it is removed completely from the critical hit mechanics... meaning things like mines in those games would simply never have the possibility of critical hits... the weapons and skills that do that type of dmg can then more easily be balanced.... Not to mention the MASSIVE unloading of Server Calculations.
I will call it now... Bort will NOT be able to correct DOT dmg critical linking in the way people seem to think they can. Systems is going to tell him NO way man... the server load calculating every single tick of every single possible dot is going to bring the server to its knees.
If Bort honestly wants to correct Ciritcal hit linking the easiest... Most commonly accepted MMO wide fix... is to remove Critical dmg from ALL mines... and ALL over time dmg skills... and then to preform a balance pass on every one of those skills... increasing there dmg to compensate. (in the case of tric mines even with out critical hits downard is still the proper balance direction) Problem corrected all around, and as a side bonus server calculations reduced in general. (slightly at this point... massively if they go ahead with delinking)
PS... as a side removing the critical hits from DOT/and over time weapons (mines)... means things like the Breen Cluster all of a sudden becomes a balanced weapons (crits from that thing are just as stupid as trics)
You should not be able to solo a infected but these allow you to do so. These are hard to see in pvp to shoot because one they have the stealth bonus and two if they are not in front of you they show up on a very small tag on the edge of your screen with 84352984732687529 other things. If you need these to kill a cube or some other weak pve you might have to reevaluate your ability to play this game successfully.
If they take them down to tric torp damage level they will still be one of the best items to use vs pve you will just have to use 2 to 4 of them and not one and debuff/time skills and drop the shields to get the huge numbers off.
Bottom line get some skill, speck your ships correctly, and learn to read skills that will help you buff/debuff to do damage.
I am using them too and use a build dedicated to them. So imho yes they need some fix (crit chaining) but if this is not possible, other fixes may be needed.
BUT whatever it will be, please don't fix them in a way, that the mines + any builds about them are completly useless (and the ship, e.g. BoP Retrofit), wheter its PvP or PvE.
I am using them too and use a build dedicated to them. So imho yes they need some fix (crit chaining) but if this is not possible, other fixes may be needed.
BUT whatever it will be, please don't fix them in a way, that the mines + any builds about them are completly useless (and the ship, e.g. BoP Retrofit), wheter its PvP or PvE.
You make more sense than any other Tric-user that has posted here. Kudos to you, sir. Kudos.
Why? Scared you might fall if someone takes your crutches away?
lol no, but thanks for the reply. Im Not much of a PvP'er and when I do I don't use Tric's. In all honesty they are OP and I know in PvP they ruin people's day. But all I see is the Cryptic Nerf Brigade :rolleyes:.
Why the hell are people who don't (by their own admission) play PvP posting on a board explicitly titled "PvP Gameplay"?
Can you imagine the reaction if someone here jumped onto a PvE board and said something to the effect of, "I don't play STFs but here's my opinion, and the devs had better listen to me"...?
In Some other MMOs... DOT dmg / over time or Condition dmg or what ever we want to call it is removed completely from the critical hit mechanics... meaning things like mines in those games would simply never have the possibility of critical hits...
Comments
People cry waa waa the game is to hard I cant do it yet I can breeze through all the pve content practically sleeping even when the skill tree was more complicated and made people think on how to build a ship more.
These mines are just another way to stupid proof and lazy proof this game. I bet a monkey can play this game now.
...Tricobalt mines...hmmm...tricobalt mines...
* doo doo doo doo. Welcome to Q and A with Jamo! *
Why is it Jamo, that so many people are q_qing about these getting nerfed?
Because they're so good at destroying NPCs and players of course.
Hmmm, why is it then, that we saw such a large amount of the playerbase using these when mines got a buff?
Because they are crazy overpowered, whether it be in PvP or PvE.
Alrighty. How come Cryptic needs people's input before nerfing THIS particular item?
That would most likely be because they know full well that it is overpowered and they want to be able to gague how many players will stop playing the STFs because they'll actually begin to take some effort without trics destroying everything on the map instantly.
Interesting, and finally, how much do you think this will affect the PvP community?
I believe it will lead to more people queueing up. You see, players were previously discouraged not only by pre-made teams rolling but also by players tric mining the spawns and getting instapopped by these projectiles.
Do you have any overall comment about tric mines?
SMACK THEM WITH THE NERF BAT!
Players need to learn how to play, not have the short cut handed to them on a noob-encircled platter.
Why should PvEers get off easy and spam trics for insta PvE wins, when for the PvP community, all they are is a griefing tool whose amusement factor wore off long ago.
I find that Heavy Tricobalt is most valuable against Donatra after she cloaks. The amount of unshielded damage helps significantly, and also helps you get an idea of her location when she uncloaks so you can be far away.
So for us pure STF'ers, I think best to leave Tricobalt the way it is. If you weaken it, then there will no longer be a reason for us to use it anymore, the Borg will kill us even faster, we will eventually spend a minute or more before we can respawn, and Elite STFs in general will last even longer than they already do.
My Ship Builds: USS Conqueror, HMS Victorious, HMS Concord, ISS Queen Elizabeth, Black Widow III
Click here to view my DeviantArt.
BTW takes a good team of good players 5 min to do a elite stf no trics about 1 min with lol
Then you say they will be worthless if they nerf them a bit. I will ask you how so why will they be worthless? You don't think they will do 300k damage or more to a hull of a npc ship?
OMG now you have to actually take the shields down on your target and not just heal tank and drop mines and watch as it hits the tac cube and does 1 mill damage to it and go omg I am so good at this game I am sto god.
I will refer you to a star trek movie called first contact watch it then tell me how much torps cannons beams ect it took to kill one regular cube. Now tell me more on why you need to be able to one shot one?
Yeah, shoot down mines when you're placated, etc.
And mines that require an Intrepid w/ Ablative Armor enabled and buffed with PH, HE, to survive just one hit (and lose Ablative Armor, and subsequently die from the secondary and tertiary hits)!
How about you guys learn to play the game instead?
How about your PvE fleet learn how to beat pugs without Trics?
How about that ****?
No wonder they fight so hard to not get them nerfed. They can't do **** without them!
And see how hard headed most of the PvEers are in this thread! No matter the evidence presented, or the fact that adjustments to prevent one shots would still leave them viable in PvE, most of them still insist nothing be done!
Why even play PvE if you can faceroll it so easily with DPB Trics? If you hate PvP so much, why would you want your time to be even more of a joke in PvE?
Seriously, months ago I got popped a few times in a cap and hold. I went to ESD, loaded a couple of blue mk x tric mines with a single dispersal pattern beta and the next match was so full of laughs until they turned into frustrated tears. You know what I did? I saw a b'rel, loaded DP:Beta and flew in a little circle. They couldn't see it when it activated and they died gloriously. Repeatedly. Even whdn thry got wise all I had to do was fly at my own mines and slow down.
Long story short, spare me the nonsense about how significant the opportunity cost is or what incredible planning goes into dropping a couple of mines that will very likely chain crit a target (or 3, yes, 3) in one shot.
That being said, before things get too out of hand I'll just spin this old broken record one more time. Make Tric mines dangerous to the person deploying them. Other mines and heavy torps damage a user who gets too close so these should too. Pets that drop the should be effected by them as with the carrier that deployed the pets. I'm not saying that the user should trigger the explosion but if they are in range they should feel it just as the target. Make them risky like Tric Torps used to be. And when possible, see if the software team can work on chain crits or the potential issue with mines from the same Dispersal Pattern detonating one another.
This doesn't have to be a total rework or nerf if we can create an actual opportunity cost and add some risk.
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
Thanks for providing a great example of how very broken they are in PvE, which is after all the reason they are being fixed.
I've suggested this before as well. While its not a perfect fix, it would make things consistent with how other high damage projectiles are treated and force the tric bombers to actually employ some of this supposed "strategy" they always go on about to not get caught up in their own mines.
TRIBBLE | -Show Me Your Critz-
Svarog | Veles | et al.
aww, but thats lulz, outside of an stf. i would support heavy projectiles not damaging their user.
/gently caresses HY omega
This isn't feedback Borticus. This is spam.
This post here by me, was previously discussed as a suggestion for you folks a while ago on a different thread.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=7174751&postcount=37
That thread did not have an enormous flood of PvE'ers trying to justify the extreme spike damage Tricobalt Mines with dispersal patterns are capable of delivering.
The PvPers who have been consistent on this thread, can perhaps use that post mentioned above to enforce a feedback logically applicable to Borticus and the Devs to work off of.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Because a systematic change to multiple mechanics in the game won't have any effect on non-PvP players right?
Not in any unreasonable way.
You really shouldn't be able to faceroll PvE content more than you do already.
Tric mines will still pack a punch even with the nerf. Just learn to debuff targets and use 'em. You will still deal a lot of damage, only now they will be less stupid in PvP. They're so stupidly overpowered right now that you need an Intrepid w/ Ablative Armor enabled, PH, HE activated just to survive one Tric from a DPB pattern release. And you still die to the other mines anyway after your armor is stunned off.
So instead of fixing the problem ... they work around it with nerfs?
... if so ... ::: klingon facepalm ...
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
Well that is only if the behaviour is considered to not be working as intended.
Frankly the Current devs have a long history of ignoring what devs have done in the past seemingly quite on purpose. (I am assuming this has to do with terrible note keeping by previous staff... still... sometimes they need to really think through why things work the way they do) I am sure the origional engine developers made the choice to link critical calcs on over time dmg to reduce server load.
In Some other MMOs... DOT dmg / over time or Condition dmg or what ever we want to call it is removed completely from the critical hit mechanics... meaning things like mines in those games would simply never have the possibility of critical hits... the weapons and skills that do that type of dmg can then more easily be balanced.... Not to mention the MASSIVE unloading of Server Calculations.
I will call it now... Bort will NOT be able to correct DOT dmg critical linking in the way people seem to think they can. Systems is going to tell him NO way man... the server load calculating every single tick of every single possible dot is going to bring the server to its knees.
If Bort honestly wants to correct Ciritcal hit linking the easiest... Most commonly accepted MMO wide fix... is to remove Critical dmg from ALL mines... and ALL over time dmg skills... and then to preform a balance pass on every one of those skills... increasing there dmg to compensate. (in the case of tric mines even with out critical hits downard is still the proper balance direction) Problem corrected all around, and as a side bonus server calculations reduced in general. (slightly at this point... massively if they go ahead with delinking)
PS... as a side removing the critical hits from DOT/and over time weapons (mines)... means things like the Breen Cluster all of a sudden becomes a balanced weapons (crits from that thing are just as stupid as trics)
If they take them down to tric torp damage level they will still be one of the best items to use vs pve you will just have to use 2 to 4 of them and not one and debuff/time skills and drop the shields to get the huge numbers off.
Bottom line get some skill, speck your ships correctly, and learn to read skills that will help you buff/debuff to do damage.
Why? Scared you might fall if someone takes your crutches away?
I am using them too and use a build dedicated to them. So imho yes they need some fix (crit chaining) but if this is not possible, other fixes may be needed.
BUT whatever it will be, please don't fix them in a way, that the mines + any builds about them are completly useless (and the ship, e.g. BoP Retrofit), wheter its PvP or PvE.
You make more sense than any other Tric-user that has posted here. Kudos to you, sir. Kudos.
lol no, but thanks for the reply. Im Not much of a PvP'er and when I do I don't use Tric's. In all honesty they are OP and I know in PvP they ruin people's day. But all I see is the Cryptic Nerf Brigade :rolleyes:.
Can you imagine the reaction if someone here jumped onto a PvE board and said something to the effect of, "I don't play STFs but here's my opinion, and the devs had better listen to me"...?
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
I'm curious why you classify mines as a DOT dmg.