I don't know if they are on a different scale, but the ground STFs should have higher Omega Marks since they take so much longer. It would also incentive playing ground.
I also hate that the DOFFs and consumables are tied into this. I'm sorry, but the Marks and Dilithium are enough, besides scrounging around for stuff that has nothing to do with anything else.
Ok, so... I lost interest after reading a third of the posts here, some of which appear to be back and forth between people. So, ignoring all the rest, here are my impressions of the reputation system:
1) These reputation projects are completable given what I can gather with my usual play activities. Thus far, they use resources that are fairly straightforward to obtain, though I haven't even hit Tier I given that I just started for the test weekend.
2) Just as I feared, these reputation projects consume resources that also apply to fleet projects. This means that either the fleet loses out on the resources I am contributing, or I miss out on progress through the reputation system.
3) There is no apparent increase in the amount of dilithium that may be refined, and there is a distinct increase in the activities that draw upon it. This is a bad thing.
4) The reputation system provides an outlet for those disinterested in participating in a fleet to still have their own little project system. That this is also part of why some players are disinterested in participating in a fleet makes this a pyrrhic victory for said players.
5) Unsure of this is a description bug, or a change to the event, but the Mirror Universe Incursion description makes no mention of dilithium being rewarded. I did queue for it on Tribble, but did not get into one to see for myself. If this is a change, it is not a good thing for lower level players with limited access to dilithium in the first place. This may be intentional, though, as it pushes dilithium further into "endgame".
6) The unlocks from the reputation system are very cool, and a neat idea to add to endgame content. I enjoy the idea of customizing my captain with additional abilities beyond merely my branch of Starfleet/KDF.
7) The reputation system adds another menu management segment to the game. This game IS fun to play, but menu management is not in and of itself exciting. I personally can't remember any time I heard someone say, "Oooh! More menus! AWESOME!"
Well, those are my personal impressions pertaining to the reputation system. The rewards are good, the method of obtaining them is dull, and the whole thing seems designed to increase the demand for dilithium. The last part is probably a good thing for free-to-play folks, since that should drive down the cost of Zen on the dilithium exchange. I hope this is helpful, and assists you in your future efforts to continue to improve STO.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
The reputation system looks pretty good on the whole. The prices, for the tier I can see currently at least, don't seem bad at all. The rewards for gaining it look appealing.
My only complaint is the duration of projects. Taking nearly two days to complete a single starting-tier project is kind of extreme. Especially when you need to do several to advance to the next tier. It really cuts down on your feeling of progress and accomplishment.
I think you're trying too hard to artificially lengthen the time it takes to achieve reputation. Grinding the required materials is enough, have to wait over a day for the project to complete is pretty bad.
If the time requirements keep going up, I'm afraid I (and many other people) will just lose interest in the whole thing.
Disappointed Tier 2 costs 2 Uncommon DOFFs (which don't like due to the DOFF costs going up) so does this mean Tier 3 is going to be 2 Rares and Tier 4 and 5 being 2 Very Rare DOFFs per Project?
Also be nice if we had a Reputation Respec Capability, you know people will want to.
So Far i don't mind the new rep system but Come on 100,000 Xp to max it out? Plus the Dil Tax per Project, and a 2 day wait per project? I know you guys are trying to lengthen it out but choose one or the other, Either that huge Xp Requirement and something like at the most a 20hr assignment or reduce the total amount of XP to get to max Tier by at least 30-40%,
So Far i don't mind the new rep system but Come on 100,000 Xp to max it out? Plus the Dil Tax per Project, and a 2 day wait per project? I know you guys are trying to lengthen it out but choose one or the other, Either that huge Xp Requirement and something like at the most a 20hr assignment or reduce the total amount of XP to get to max Tier by at least 30-40%,
I agree. I have no problem with the system (and being guaranteed that I can get MK XII in a reasonable amount of time rather than might, is nice), but the prices aren't quite right.
Each cost on it's own doesn't seem to horrible, but combined it makes the whole ordeal quite expensive. I know one thing i noticed a dev mention was the high dilithium cost of individual equipment being higher than from the dilithium store because it's better, but that ignores the other costs including the time one (HAVE to do specific missions which can be difficult where you can buy stuff from dilithium store with dilithium from anywhere).
I have to say that while I understand the need to fix the current (broken) system, I wonder why you're including the hard-coded minimum of 2 months to complete the Reputation system?
Anyone who was messed up by the current system by not having gotten the drops yet gets further messed up by the new system, requiring them to spend at least 2 months grinding up the rep to get it.
It seems like all we're doing with these rep/fleet systems is putting in artificial time constraints into the game.
Is it the intention to lock players into a fixed rate of progression? That is like saying you can only earn 1 level every 2 days. If you've reached your limit, please come back later.
It seems to me that MMOs are supposed to reward time and effort spent playing the game, not cap it.
Nah minimum is 72 days. Takes effectivlly 2 days per pair of projects and you need 36 pairs minimum.
I believe higher tier missions do grant more XP.
And part of the idea with the cooldowns is to give people time to acquire resources.
All that said, I think what's needed are project time boosts to speed things up, either for dilithium or ZEN.
And, as I've said before, I think what we're getting is a better system with a bad rollout that will frustrate people who felt close to their goals before... and that it's inadequately tested for S7 to launch in the next couple of weeks because it's impossible to get to higher rep tiers in the testing phase.
Too much time for "projects" to complete when all the quals are met. Someone else in here stated something similar, but even Fleet projects take less time to complete once they are started: 20 hours vs. ~ 2 days? Yikes!
Also, though it's not as large a resource sink as the Fleet system, the requirement costs are really too high for a) what the missions are currently dropping (too few, too little dilithium drops yet huge outputs of same in the current Season already) and, b) for the time it takes to complete missions and reach even Tier I.
Sorry, the system is cool, but it's my feeling that most aren't going to have the time, resources, and interest to invest in it the way it currently plays.
Fleet Commander
Caprica's Revenge (...actually active since November 2010, which may one day be important to archaeologists, but not to anyone else...)
What would make this reps system acceptable is if the player gained one base level (level 10) space and ground set upon completing tier one. and then the rest of the time is devoted to upgradeing the gear to XI and XII. Making a player wait until getting to end to obtain the gear is just going to make more player rage quit do to grinding, edc/dilith sinks, and time-gated play for stuff that had no cost (other than game time) to obtain befor season 7. Make a STF X set for initial award for completing tier one and then less complaints for having to jump through all these hoops to get to the higher levels. Of course, don't get greedy with the requirements either.
Was it intentional to leave out the population count for the STF/FA quequing? Now you join and wait and wonder how long it will take for an event to start since their is no indication of how many are currenlty quequed. Please add this back in for Holodeck.
2 days btw projects is way too long. I think I would prefer a mix like the Doff missions, where if you set it up for a 2 daybreak the reward needs to match the time, a shorter time would equal less pay out etc..
2 days btw projects is way too long. I think I would prefer a mix like the Doff missions, where if you set it up for a 2 daybreak the reward needs to match the time, a shorter time would equal less pay out etc..
I don't feel a elite veteran of all of there content
Should have to go thru the system I'n the first place .
As many have said before it's plain insulting
the 2 day wait should be removed period if you can
Pay you advance is my thinking
I know they want everyone to level equally
It still stinks. I understand why I just don't like it
( rant over )
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I noticed that the the omega reputation table is already there, but play a couple of missions there and out of the 5 players, 2 to 3 didn't earn an omega marks and the other reward... so does it mean that only the romulan reputation table will be coming out 1st?
I found this mission to bug on me when I entered a finished red alert, i warped out and found that the mission was gone but when I tried to take it again it advised me I was still on it and could not take it again. I checked my log to see if I got rewards for completion as well as my currency tab and no Romulan marks, I was also 40% off the way through the other daily and had not earned any yet. Completed daily and saw rommarks appear with notification and mission disappear from log and show up with 20 hour cool down under available but the Red Alert still not showing in my mission log and telling me I was still on it. Sure to be fixed but just letting you know.
A flamethrower at T5 reputation? Seriously? I'm glad my kdf char can use that, but what about my Starfleet one? I thought Starfleet banned cruel weapons? :eek:
I noticed that the the omega reputation table is already there, but play a couple of missions there and out of the 5 players, 2 to 3 didn't earn an omega marks and the other reward... so does it mean that only the romulan reputation table will be coming out 1st?
No, they just have not hooked up all the rewards yet. it will be once its on holodeck.
Ok, so... I lost interest after reading a third of the posts here, some of which appear to be back and forth between people. So, ignoring all the rest, here are my impressions of the reputation system:
1) These reputation projects are completable given what I can gather with my usual play activities. Thus far, they use resources that are fairly straightforward to obtain, though I haven't even hit Tier I given that I just started for the test weekend.
2) Just as I feared, these reputation projects consume resources that also apply to fleet projects. This means that either the fleet loses out on the resources I am contributing, or I miss out on progress through the reputation system.
3) There is no apparent increase in the amount of dilithium that may be refined, and there is a distinct increase in the activities that draw upon it. This is a bad thing.
4) The reputation system provides an outlet for those disinterested in participating in a fleet to still have their own little project system. That this is also part of why some players are disinterested in participating in a fleet makes this a pyrrhic victory for said players.
5) Unsure of this is a description bug, or a change to the event, but the Mirror Universe Incursion description makes no mention of dilithium being rewarded. I did queue for it on Tribble, but did not get into one to see for myself. If this is a change, it is not a good thing for lower level players with limited access to dilithium in the first place. This may be intentional, though, as it pushes dilithium further into "endgame".
6) The unlocks from the reputation system are very cool, and a neat idea to add to endgame content. I enjoy the idea of customizing my captain with additional abilities beyond merely my branch of Starfleet/KDF.
7) The reputation system adds another menu management segment to the game. This game IS fun to play, but menu management is not in and of itself exciting. I personally can't remember any time I heard someone say, "Oooh! More menus! AWESOME!"
Well, those are my personal impressions pertaining to the reputation system. The rewards are good, the method of obtaining them is dull, and the whole thing seems designed to increase the demand for dilithium. The last part is probably a good thing for free-to-play folks, since that should drive down the cost of Zen on the dilithium exchange. I hope this is helpful, and assists you in your future efforts to continue to improve STO.
I have to say, the removal of Dilitihium from the reputation systems is definitely a step in the right direction... still have absolutely NO interest in working on either of them.
I have to ask, what is the point of the reputation system in it's current form? Is the purpose to meter the content or just provide a system for people to unlock different tiers and rewards?
If the point is to throttle access I REALLY don't see why the projects require anything other then Omega/Romulan marks. Adding 'Vendor Loot' and Doffs to the requirements adds absolutely nothing to the system, it's actually the reason I'm already tired of the Starbase system. It might make sense when 50-60 people need to contribute, but it's just senseless Replicator spam and exchange farming for a single person. The xp projects should have a fairly minimal cost, if we're actually working on the missions. Think DOFF system, not starbase.
If the point ISN'T to throttle access, why have marks at all? In that case give us reputation specific XP after completing missions and STFs. This allows people to level the systems at their own pace and remove the ridiculous leveling missions and their costs. Don't get me wrong, there would still need to be missions to unlock the different tiers and obtain gear and consumables, but it would remove a lot of the pointless busy work in the current system.
Honestly, the thing that bothers me the most about the reputation system is that it's moving almost ALL endgame content to a 'hands off' system. For a casual player you're removing the incentive to play past getting the resources for projects and forcing them to log in and swap projects regularly. This kind of system killed EVE for me, if you can't log in at a specific time you're character suffers and falls behind.
It makes sense for something like the DOFF system, where you have no direct control over the outcome, but when you're doing missions and only getting credit after some arbitrary project? Not as much. I REALLY hope there's additional changes coming, the system's definitely not ready yet.
It feels really too easy to achieve since the last patch, and the romulan marks inputs are ludicrously low, even after T2. :P
I've done the tau dewa daily, one tholian red alert, 4-5 azure nebula, one mine trap, 2 the vault ensnared events, and one new Romulus run and I still have 80 romulan marks left, and I'm working on T3 now... The main issue will be waiting for project completion. I won't have much to do, since I play on a daily basis. That's not fun.
EDIT :: This is a complete rewrite of something less... pleasant. I'm not usually an avid poster but I REALLY don't agree with the design of the Reputation system. I apologize if it comes out a little disjointed.
Perhaps so but with Season 7 fast approaching I'm left more then a little anxious about the changes. This is the second time the STF currencies have changed this year and the current system just feels completely unfocused. In addition, there's really been no dev feedback on the Reputation system since the blog, and that makes me nervous.
This is the second time the STF currency has been redesigned this year and considering the state of the Reputation system, I'm really not confident that it wouldn't be reworked again in another 6 months. My main problem is, I honestly have no idea what the point of the Reputation system is. There's no real focus, it just leaves me with a bunch of questions that I'm still trying to get answered.
Is it throttled to slow access to the content or because that's left over from the starbase system? Why not make the XP missions 30 seconds instead of 2 days long? Is the system ment to be a currency sink? If so, why remove dilthilum? If not, why require anything besides marks? Why is it a project system, doesn't XP make more sense? Why not just have projects to unlock the tiers and create gear? What do we get out of the system that couldn't be achieved by adding MKXII gear to the STF vendors?
I'm REALLY not a fan of using a 'Hands Off' System like the starbase or doff system to manage a player's ability to progress. It's like running all the lower level content, but only getting XP from performing DOFF missions afterwards. It's even worse when the system requires 'Vendor Trash' and DOFFs. I'm already sick of obtaining that stuff for the starbase, I don't want to be doing it on player progression. If it's not earned from doing STFs or Romulan events, it shouldn't be required by the projects IMO.
I like the idea, but adjusting the drops and shoehorning the Starbase system in to control everything isn't the way to go. It feels like a patch job, unfinished. Perhaps there are good reasons that the system is designed the way it is, but without any Dev interaction on the subject we'll never know.
Honestly, I'd rather have the system left out of the game at this point. The way it sits now I half expect that it'll have to be pulled out for another system 6 mths from now and I'm sure no one wants to deal with another unfair currency exchange.
took somthing broken and made it so bad people allready leaving game and the TRIBBLE not even on holodeck yet. congradulations you must hate us all so so much.
In the new reputation system you could allow players to change already chosen tasks (at least upgrade task). If something comes along that has priority and you already selected the project but you did not started it, ability to change or switch task would be very useful.
I am not sure if or how many others have discussed this, so I will apologize up front if this has been said.
Entering T2 the issue I feel should be adjusted is once you claim a reward, regardless of what it is, I think it should then be made available through the store for a simple dil charge. I have no problem "learning/ crafting" the item once it is unlocked, but there will be weapons, ship equipment, etc. that people will want more than 1 of (multiple ships, etc.) and I don't think we should wait 32 hours to craft each one. Just do it once and make it easily available afterwards.
I hope I am not alone in this thinking. Thanks. Levry
I am not certian if this is a re-post but i didn't really see any one point out a Re-spec option for reputation passives. I Would love to see a Reputation re-spec token. I've heard rumors in game "they" are working on one but there were also rumors "they" are making a re-spec token for Racial passives. I think a lot of players would buy a re-spec token that reset rep and racial passives; I'm sure the money could be used for future projects.
Comments
I also hate that the DOFFs and consumables are tied into this. I'm sorry, but the Marks and Dilithium are enough, besides scrounging around for stuff that has nothing to do with anything else.
1) These reputation projects are completable given what I can gather with my usual play activities. Thus far, they use resources that are fairly straightforward to obtain, though I haven't even hit Tier I given that I just started for the test weekend.
2) Just as I feared, these reputation projects consume resources that also apply to fleet projects. This means that either the fleet loses out on the resources I am contributing, or I miss out on progress through the reputation system.
3) There is no apparent increase in the amount of dilithium that may be refined, and there is a distinct increase in the activities that draw upon it. This is a bad thing.
4) The reputation system provides an outlet for those disinterested in participating in a fleet to still have their own little project system. That this is also part of why some players are disinterested in participating in a fleet makes this a pyrrhic victory for said players.
5) Unsure of this is a description bug, or a change to the event, but the Mirror Universe Incursion description makes no mention of dilithium being rewarded. I did queue for it on Tribble, but did not get into one to see for myself. If this is a change, it is not a good thing for lower level players with limited access to dilithium in the first place. This may be intentional, though, as it pushes dilithium further into "endgame".
6) The unlocks from the reputation system are very cool, and a neat idea to add to endgame content. I enjoy the idea of customizing my captain with additional abilities beyond merely my branch of Starfleet/KDF.
7) The reputation system adds another menu management segment to the game. This game IS fun to play, but menu management is not in and of itself exciting. I personally can't remember any time I heard someone say, "Oooh! More menus! AWESOME!"
Well, those are my personal impressions pertaining to the reputation system. The rewards are good, the method of obtaining them is dull, and the whole thing seems designed to increase the demand for dilithium. The last part is probably a good thing for free-to-play folks, since that should drive down the cost of Zen on the dilithium exchange. I hope this is helpful, and assists you in your future efforts to continue to improve STO.
My only complaint is the duration of projects. Taking nearly two days to complete a single starting-tier project is kind of extreme. Especially when you need to do several to advance to the next tier. It really cuts down on your feeling of progress and accomplishment.
I think you're trying too hard to artificially lengthen the time it takes to achieve reputation. Grinding the required materials is enough, have to wait over a day for the project to complete is pretty bad.
If the time requirements keep going up, I'm afraid I (and many other people) will just lose interest in the whole thing.
Disappointed Tier 2 costs 2 Uncommon DOFFs (which don't like due to the DOFF costs going up) so does this mean Tier 3 is going to be 2 Rares and Tier 4 and 5 being 2 Very Rare DOFFs per Project?
Also be nice if we had a Reputation Respec Capability, you know people will want to.
Founder and Current CO of Gamma Strike Force
Player since December 2009
I agree. I have no problem with the system (and being guaranteed that I can get MK XII in a reasonable amount of time rather than might, is nice), but the prices aren't quite right.
Each cost on it's own doesn't seem to horrible, but combined it makes the whole ordeal quite expensive. I know one thing i noticed a dev mention was the high dilithium cost of individual equipment being higher than from the dilithium store because it's better, but that ignores the other costs including the time one (HAVE to do specific missions which can be difficult where you can buy stuff from dilithium store with dilithium from anywhere).
Anyone who was messed up by the current system by not having gotten the drops yet gets further messed up by the new system, requiring them to spend at least 2 months grinding up the rep to get it.
It seems like all we're doing with these rep/fleet systems is putting in artificial time constraints into the game.
Is it the intention to lock players into a fixed rate of progression? That is like saying you can only earn 1 level every 2 days. If you've reached your limit, please come back later.
It seems to me that MMOs are supposed to reward time and effort spent playing the game, not cap it.
I believe higher tier missions do grant more XP.
And part of the idea with the cooldowns is to give people time to acquire resources.
All that said, I think what's needed are project time boosts to speed things up, either for dilithium or ZEN.
And, as I've said before, I think what we're getting is a better system with a bad rollout that will frustrate people who felt close to their goals before... and that it's inadequately tested for S7 to launch in the next couple of weeks because it's impossible to get to higher rep tiers in the testing phase.
Also, though it's not as large a resource sink as the Fleet system, the requirement costs are really too high for a) what the missions are currently dropping (too few, too little dilithium drops yet huge outputs of same in the current Season already) and, b) for the time it takes to complete missions and reach even Tier I.
Sorry, the system is cool, but it's my feeling that most aren't going to have the time, resources, and interest to invest in it the way it currently plays.
Fleet Commander
Caprica's Revenge
(...actually active since November 2010, which may one day be important to archaeologists, but not to anyone else...)
I couldn't agree more.:D
Founder and Current CO of Gamma Strike Force
Player since December 2009
Should have to go thru the system I'n the first place .
As many have said before it's plain insulting
the 2 day wait should be removed period if you can
Pay you advance is my thinking
I know they want everyone to level equally
It still stinks. I understand why I just don't like it
( rant over )
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Gibbs VA1
USS Gen. Vicente Lim
Clan Hunters
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
No, they just have not hooked up all the rewards yet. it will be once its on holodeck.
+1
couldnt agree more with everything above
I have to ask, what is the point of the reputation system in it's current form? Is the purpose to meter the content or just provide a system for people to unlock different tiers and rewards?
If the point is to throttle access I REALLY don't see why the projects require anything other then Omega/Romulan marks. Adding 'Vendor Loot' and Doffs to the requirements adds absolutely nothing to the system, it's actually the reason I'm already tired of the Starbase system. It might make sense when 50-60 people need to contribute, but it's just senseless Replicator spam and exchange farming for a single person. The xp projects should have a fairly minimal cost, if we're actually working on the missions. Think DOFF system, not starbase.
If the point ISN'T to throttle access, why have marks at all? In that case give us reputation specific XP after completing missions and STFs. This allows people to level the systems at their own pace and remove the ridiculous leveling missions and their costs. Don't get me wrong, there would still need to be missions to unlock the different tiers and obtain gear and consumables, but it would remove a lot of the pointless busy work in the current system.
Honestly, the thing that bothers me the most about the reputation system is that it's moving almost ALL endgame content to a 'hands off' system. For a casual player you're removing the incentive to play past getting the resources for projects and forcing them to log in and swap projects regularly. This kind of system killed EVE for me, if you can't log in at a specific time you're character suffers and falls behind.
It makes sense for something like the DOFF system, where you have no direct control over the outcome, but when you're doing missions and only getting credit after some arbitrary project? Not as much. I REALLY hope there's additional changes coming, the system's definitely not ready yet.
I've done the tau dewa daily, one tholian red alert, 4-5 azure nebula, one mine trap, 2 the vault ensnared events, and one new Romulus run and I still have 80 romulan marks left, and I'm working on T3 now... The main issue will be waiting for project completion. I won't have much to do, since I play on a daily basis. That's not fun.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Perhaps so but with Season 7 fast approaching I'm left more then a little anxious about the changes. This is the second time the STF currencies have changed this year and the current system just feels completely unfocused. In addition, there's really been no dev feedback on the Reputation system since the blog, and that makes me nervous.
This is the second time the STF currency has been redesigned this year and considering the state of the Reputation system, I'm really not confident that it wouldn't be reworked again in another 6 months. My main problem is, I honestly have no idea what the point of the Reputation system is. There's no real focus, it just leaves me with a bunch of questions that I'm still trying to get answered.
Is it throttled to slow access to the content or because that's left over from the starbase system? Why not make the XP missions 30 seconds instead of 2 days long? Is the system ment to be a currency sink? If so, why remove dilthilum? If not, why require anything besides marks? Why is it a project system, doesn't XP make more sense? Why not just have projects to unlock the tiers and create gear? What do we get out of the system that couldn't be achieved by adding MKXII gear to the STF vendors?
I'm REALLY not a fan of using a 'Hands Off' System like the starbase or doff system to manage a player's ability to progress. It's like running all the lower level content, but only getting XP from performing DOFF missions afterwards. It's even worse when the system requires 'Vendor Trash' and DOFFs. I'm already sick of obtaining that stuff for the starbase, I don't want to be doing it on player progression. If it's not earned from doing STFs or Romulan events, it shouldn't be required by the projects IMO.
I like the idea, but adjusting the drops and shoehorning the Starbase system in to control everything isn't the way to go. It feels like a patch job, unfinished. Perhaps there are good reasons that the system is designed the way it is, but without any Dev interaction on the subject we'll never know.
Honestly, I'd rather have the system left out of the game at this point. The way it sits now I half expect that it'll have to be pulled out for another system 6 mths from now and I'm sure no one wants to deal with another unfair currency exchange.
Great start but far from finished.
Entering T2 the issue I feel should be adjusted is once you claim a reward, regardless of what it is, I think it should then be made available through the store for a simple dil charge. I have no problem "learning/ crafting" the item once it is unlocked, but there will be weapons, ship equipment, etc. that people will want more than 1 of (multiple ships, etc.) and I don't think we should wait 32 hours to craft each one. Just do it once and make it easily available afterwards.
I hope I am not alone in this thinking. Thanks. Levry