and I think you are ignoring the facts presented and calling people liars because you want to believe Cryptic is a horrible company and want to stick to the current system so much you won't listed to the other side.
When I know something to be factually incorrect, then I know something is wrong, so I need to draw conclusions based on the reasoning behind peoples "bad luck"
Now why do I know it is factually incorrect? Because I've done hundreds of STFs casually, since it came to be. The drop rate has increased to a point where you will, no matter how bad you are ( assuming you complete them ) get a proto tech drop. This isn't really a debatable topic, because the drop rate simply isn't as low as they are implying.
Agreeing with something I know to be untruthful, is making me a liar also, did you consider that?
When I know something to be factually incorrect, then I know something is wrong, so I need to draw conclusions based on the reasoning behind peoples "bad luck"
Now why do I know it is factually incorrect? Because I've done hundreds of STFs casually, since it came to be. The drop rate has increased to a point where you will, no matter how bad you are ( assuming you complete them ) get a proto tech drop. This isn't really a debatable topic, because the drop rate simply isn't as low as they are implying.
Agreeing with something I know to be untruthful, is making me a liar also, did you consider that?
Well, how nice for you.
But the fact remains some people don't have the time to do hundreds of STFs. Work, family, other obligations, etc... it isn't uncommon for some people to only have 2 hours to play STO per day on average.
So see where the luck-based aspect becomes un-easy?
By your logic, when you can do hundreds of STF's casually, it is easy... but that can't (and doesn't) apply to every single person.
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
There is no point in arguing about whether something is "easy" or not, because that term is completely subjective and a matter of opinion. And when someone is a matter of opinion, it is neither right nor wrong. Therefore one person can say something is easy and another person can say its hard and both people are right.
97 pages and nothing from the Developers to dispel or allay our concerns.
Needless to say our feedback has been meaningless and they wish to continue with these changes without any attempt to explain or any mitigation.
To me that level of evasiveness just means the underlying reasons for the changes (namely the creation of multiple new Dilithium sinks) are not going to be player friendly reasons.:cool:
May as well close the thread, we've done our best.
When I know something to be factually incorrect, then I know something is wrong, so I need to draw conclusions based on the reasoning behind peoples "bad luck"
Now why do I know it is factually incorrect? Because I've done hundreds of STFs casually, since it came to be. The drop rate has increased to a point where you will, no matter how bad you are ( assuming you complete them ) get a proto tech drop. This isn't really a debatable topic, because the drop rate simply isn't as low as they are implying.
Agreeing with something I know to be untruthful, is making me a liar also, did you consider that?
It is not factually incorrect, though. I am not the only person in my fleet who has had trouble getting drops. My fleet has an STF group and a few of those people have had the same problem.. Sure you can call them isolated incidents, but it doesn;t mean the problem does not exist.
Even Cryptic has said some people have had problems.
As far as being good or bad, that doesn't even factor into it, you get one chance to get a drop per STF completion, skill makes no difference in it and failing or completing the optional does not affect the outcome.
It is not factually incorrect, though. I am not the only person in my fleet who has had trouble getting drops. My fleet has an STF group and a few of those people have had the same problem.. Sure you can call them isolated incidents, but it doesn;t mean the problem does not exist.
Even Cryptic has said some people have had problems.
As far as being good or bad, that doesn't even factor into it, you get one chance to get a drop per STF completion, skill makes no difference in it and failing or completing the optional does not affect the outcome.
So tell you what,
Why not make a minor modification and allow people to buy Mk XII with EDC and also keep random drops.
That was the best solution, simplest and what players originally wanted.
Or how about the Reputation system, and actually have the Resource sink based on "OMEGA Reputation points" and not Dilithium .
Frankly your arguments on here are just pointless and flamey and really miss the point.
This thread needs to die already, 97 pages of us all being ignored by the devs is enough of a monument to their customer relations department, lets not make it 100 (they'll only celebrate it by releasing an special whinging player tribble for 500 ZEN)
Why not make a minor modification and allow people to buy Mk XII with EDC and also keep random drops.
That was the best solution, simplest and what players originally wanted.
Or how about the Reputation system, and actually have the Resource sink based on "OMEGA Reputation points" and not Dilithium .
Frankly your arguments on here are just pointless and flamey and really miss the point.
This thread needs to die already, 97 pages of us all being ignored by the devs is enough of a monument to their customer relations department, lets not make it 100 (they'll only celebrate it by releasing an special whinging player tribble for 500 ZEN)
( CLICK HERE ) I'm telling you this video sums up this thread pretty nicely
Well i just played on the test server. I am not please. The cost of the omega projects even at level 0 is too much. I already grind daily to get enough stuff to help my fleet projects. I am NOT grinding even more just to level my character. So it is either one or the other, but not both. It is going to be basically a fleet killer. It is hard enough now to get players to contribute dilithium to fleet projects and now you have just given them even MORE reason to hold on to it. Every Omega project I have seen you have to contribute dilithium.
We already have to grind for fleet marks, dilithium and rare commodities (like the 1000 taspar eggs and 1000 hearts of targ for a simple fleet chef) just to keep our fleets advancing. Now you add it to our characters too? That was not a great idea in my opinion.
I don't mind new content. I don't even mind changes, but not when it adds more grind to a game that is almost a 100% grindfest.
I doubt I will quit the game over it, but I will stop my monthly subscription. I am not going to pay for a game that is going to feel like a second job.
The new content is great. Love the New Romulus planet and the missions there. The Omega Force projects have little to be desired. I cannot say I will ever like it as long as you have to pay to advance your character. To me contributing dilitihum to the projects is the same as paying. The first 2 small projects basically cost 10 ZEN worth of dilithium, and that is at level 0. I would hate to see the cost at tier 5.
I know it is not going to be changed. PW/Crytic has put a lot of time and money into it, but that doesn't mean I have to like it or put my real life money into it.
Just my outlook on it. I will probably take another look at it later and read up on the forums and see if there is something I missed, but the way it looks now it is just more and more grind on top of the grind we already have.
P.S. I hope they give an exact date this goes live so everyone can make sure they convert all of their EDC and salvages into dilithium. There is no reason anyone should have to wait months from now (tier 5) to get what they have already earned. That was another change that I just had to shake my head and go WTH were they thinking.
P.S. I hope they give an exact date this goes live so everyone can make sure they convert all of their EDC and salvages into dilithium. There is no reason anyone should have to wait months from now (tier 5) to get what they have already earned. That was another change that I just had to shake my head and go WTH were they thinking.
I already converted all my items, just for safety.
I was on tribble this morning and there was reputation and all that for the borg and romulan stuff already but nothing had yet been converted. I'm actually slightly worried they're going to not put that on tribble until it's too late to do any checking. I'm still not even sure how it's really a "leg up" if they're going to be holding it all hostage like this. Anytime Cryptic has made it a point to withhold information it's a good sign that it's going to end badly for the fans.
Sigh.... This. I'm afraid this.
TBH, I've already started playing the game less. Gettin tired of running STFs, it's as simple as that.
It's even started to affect my relationship with fleetmates, it seems from the moment I log on, someone is asking me to run another STF, so they can try to get gear BEFORE the changes.
So we're grinding.....to avoid a grind. It's just crazy.
BUT:
In all fairness, there are a few things I AM looking forward too with season seven.
I've spent some time on tribble, and I really like the New Romulus map A LOT.
In fact, I could go on and on about how much I like that map.
I REALLY like the fact that there is something new in game that I can actually EXPLORE.
The reputation system: While I certainly feel that IT IS too much of a grind AND a resource sink, (more grinding is defiantly something I am not looking forward to at all.)
I AM looking forward to the passive abilities and the "advancement", of my character's skills, (with both the space and ground passives that you choose with the advancement).
To me, the chance of advancing my character, after he's been sitting idol at endgame for too long, is very refreshing. It gives me the chance to really make my character more Unique and not just cosmetically, but in abilities as well.
It helps to "flesh" him out more, if it were. If you get my meaning.
THE VESTA.... I can't begin to tell how impressed I was with how that ship looks. She's absolutely beautiful. I really wish I could fly her to get a feel for that lovely lady, I'll just have to wait.
SOMEONE/s put A LOT of work in both the Vesta and the New Romulus map.
So while there are things about season seven I can definitely do without, there are a couple of things that still have me looking forward to launch.
I'm sure there are more things to rave about that I have yet to encounter yet. I'm looking forward to tracking down those easter eggs.
If you were... we'd have fixes to long-standing bugs. We would have playable content beyond grind maps, we would not have an 8K grind-cap nor would we have yet another grind-sink.
Dstahl, you are many things (Game producer, business man, fairly nice fellow overall)-- but a listener you are not.
We the fans... are telling you OMG THIS SUCKS.
It's no longer just a small cross-section on the forum. People in TTS, Zone, STORP, and other channels are unhappy. People I've talked with in game after PUGs are unhappy.
Dstahl, you are NOT listening to your player base. Our feedback means NOTHING to Cryptic.
I would be more willing to accept the upcoming changes if there were some new story or plot advancements rather than grind-map spoonfuls.
Said my piece now, take it as you will, sir.
I really like this post, cause its completely true.
If Cryptic was kinda listening, then they would've posted again.
If Cryptic was really listening to our feedback, they would cancel the proposed STF Reputation System and make minor changes to improve the current, working, system.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Boldly going where no one has gone before!
while i agree that the changes to the new STF structure limits the dilithium far too much, i can see where the ones who didn't get mk12 proto salvages get into the grieving. I suggest that while implementing the new STF reputation system, the old one also be kept. In essence, there would be a hybrid STF rewards system. Same EXACT amount of dilithium, same drop rates, same baggies, etc. BUT you would add in omega marks into the baggie so those who want to use the reputation system can get mk12 gear while still receiving EDCs, salvages, etc. so there would still be that still slim shot at getting the mk12 gear off the bat, but if you didn't, you could submit the omega marks into the reputation system.
If Cryptic was really listening to our feedback, they would cancel the proposed STF Reputation System and make minor changes to improve the current, working, system.
I agree. However, I'm not freaked about ALL of the changes. A refresh now and then is fine. The BIG issue for me is Dan's (and his team) attitude towards long-time STF players. He's given some really insulting reasons for the obvious TRIBBLE-over that he's dealing dedicated endgamer's, and has refused, so far, to offer any REAL clarification/rebuttals/changes based on the responses we've offered.
This situation is leaving a REALLY bad taste in my mouth, so to speak.
And like I said in that post, I like Cryptic and STO, and I hate when something I like is attacked (or criticized, whatever you prefer). A lot of what mewi said struck that chord for me, and... well, couldn't quite help myself. A weakness of mine.
But it's not my intention to rile up posters (there are much better uses of my time); I was simply stating my opinion to mewi.
I think this thread needs to calm down a little. STO is not going anywhere and this is not the end people will continue to play. I know I will be playing!
- The conversion will be different for everyone which is why we aren't posting a chart. When you get your crate, it will tell your character specifically how much Omega Marks, Borg Neural Processors, and Dilithium your items were converted to. If you are worried that the exchange may not be to your liking, then you'll have to make the call whether to spend or not. For the most part we are posting this blog to give you enough time to make that call for yourself.
Translation:
If you want to find out how we TRIBBLE you out of the things you already earned but did not turn you will have to patch to the Test Server, transfer a character and see it for yourself then. We will not help you in any way.
Sorry Cryptic, but this is just laughable. At least when the conversion from Marks to Dilithium came you were open about it and what players would be losing.
I think this thread needs to calm down a little. STO is not going anywhere and this is not the end people will continue to play. I know I will be playing!
All of which is true (for you and me), but some people can't be convinced until it actually happens
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
what i dont understand is, Is the concept of "if it isnt broke dont fix it" to hard to understand with game companies???? i mean really, for me to make any amount of dilitium the way the current game sits, is that i need at least 6 charachters {wich i have} just to make enough dilithium to buy say... one spiral wave disruptor. i mean seriously this game already has more limits on it than WOW. everything is bound so you cant put items on lowbies, start a real economy with the exchange, or even with yourself. so now there gonna lower the dylithium requirements for purchases, but make it assininely harder to farm the TRIBBLE??? if thats the case they better remove the damn limitation on refining it too. otherwise it looks to me like there at the point where they just plain dont give a damn, with as much $$ ive put into buying zen store ships and account addons. i think they should be giving us more perks than jacking the only resource that gets us the toys we need to be competative.
For me it's hard to understand to not make purragraphs now and then. But I have to agree on this one a bit. We finally got used to the Borg currencies, now it's another change. :P
PS: Hey wow, I just opened the 100th page! Nice.
"Everything about the Jham'Hadar is lethal!" - Eris
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
Comments
When I know something to be factually incorrect, then I know something is wrong, so I need to draw conclusions based on the reasoning behind peoples "bad luck"
Now why do I know it is factually incorrect? Because I've done hundreds of STFs casually, since it came to be. The drop rate has increased to a point where you will, no matter how bad you are ( assuming you complete them ) get a proto tech drop. This isn't really a debatable topic, because the drop rate simply isn't as low as they are implying.
Agreeing with something I know to be untruthful, is making me a liar also, did you consider that?
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
But the fact remains some people don't have the time to do hundreds of STFs. Work, family, other obligations, etc... it isn't uncommon for some people to only have 2 hours to play STO per day on average.
So see where the luck-based aspect becomes un-easy?
By your logic, when you can do hundreds of STF's casually, it is easy... but that can't (and doesn't) apply to every single person.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Needless to say our feedback has been meaningless and they wish to continue with these changes without any attempt to explain or any mitigation.
To me that level of evasiveness just means the underlying reasons for the changes (namely the creation of multiple new Dilithium sinks) are not going to be player friendly reasons.:cool:
May as well close the thread, we've done our best.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
Srsly, almost 100 pages and not anything to allay our concerns. Ths dev blog post has more pages then the next 4 dev blogs combined!!!!
Tone ti down. Put the Dil back, put the loot boxes with random loot back, quit monetizing places that weren't before.
Even Cryptic has said some people have had problems.
As far as being good or bad, that doesn't even factor into it, you get one chance to get a drop per STF completion, skill makes no difference in it and failing or completing the optional does not affect the outcome.
So tell you what,
Why not make a minor modification and allow people to buy Mk XII with EDC and also keep random drops.
That was the best solution, simplest and what players originally wanted.
Or how about the Reputation system, and actually have the Resource sink based on "OMEGA Reputation points" and not Dilithium
Frankly your arguments on here are just pointless and flamey and really miss the point.
This thread needs to die already, 97 pages of us all being ignored by the devs is enough of a monument to their customer relations department, lets not make it 100
#2311#2700#2316#2500
( CLICK HERE ) I'm telling you this video sums up this thread pretty nicely
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Whhhyyyyyyyy!?!??!?!!?!??!?!?!?!!?
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10052253
Why are you not rejoicing?
Because we do have to buy Zen
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
We already have to grind for fleet marks, dilithium and rare commodities (like the 1000 taspar eggs and 1000 hearts of targ for a simple fleet chef) just to keep our fleets advancing. Now you add it to our characters too? That was not a great idea in my opinion.
I don't mind new content. I don't even mind changes, but not when it adds more grind to a game that is almost a 100% grindfest.
I doubt I will quit the game over it, but I will stop my monthly subscription. I am not going to pay for a game that is going to feel like a second job.
The new content is great. Love the New Romulus planet and the missions there. The Omega Force projects have little to be desired. I cannot say I will ever like it as long as you have to pay to advance your character. To me contributing dilitihum to the projects is the same as paying. The first 2 small projects basically cost 10 ZEN worth of dilithium, and that is at level 0. I would hate to see the cost at tier 5.
I know it is not going to be changed. PW/Crytic has put a lot of time and money into it, but that doesn't mean I have to like it or put my real life money into it.
Just my outlook on it. I will probably take another look at it later and read up on the forums and see if there is something I missed, but the way it looks now it is just more and more grind on top of the grind we already have.
P.S. I hope they give an exact date this goes live so everyone can make sure they convert all of their EDC and salvages into dilithium. There is no reason anyone should have to wait months from now (tier 5) to get what they have already earned. That was another change that I just had to shake my head and go WTH were they thinking.
I already converted all my items, just for safety.
Sigh.... This. I'm afraid this.
TBH, I've already started playing the game less. Gettin tired of running STFs, it's as simple as that.
It's even started to affect my relationship with fleetmates, it seems from the moment I log on, someone is asking me to run another STF, so they can try to get gear BEFORE the changes.
So we're grinding.....to avoid a grind. It's just crazy.
BUT:
In all fairness, there are a few things I AM looking forward too with season seven.
I've spent some time on tribble, and I really like the New Romulus map A LOT.
In fact, I could go on and on about how much I like that map.
I REALLY like the fact that there is something new in game that I can actually EXPLORE.
The reputation system: While I certainly feel that IT IS too much of a grind AND a resource sink, (more grinding is defiantly something I am not looking forward to at all.)
I AM looking forward to the passive abilities and the "advancement", of my character's skills, (with both the space and ground passives that you choose with the advancement).
To me, the chance of advancing my character, after he's been sitting idol at endgame for too long, is very refreshing. It gives me the chance to really make my character more Unique and not just cosmetically, but in abilities as well.
It helps to "flesh" him out more, if it were. If you get my meaning.
THE VESTA.... I can't begin to tell how impressed I was with how that ship looks. She's absolutely beautiful. I really wish I could fly her to get a feel for that lovely lady, I'll just have to wait.
SOMEONE/s put A LOT of work in both the Vesta and the New Romulus map.
So while there are things about season seven I can definitely do without, there are a couple of things that still have me looking forward to launch.
I'm sure there are more things to rave about that I have yet to encounter yet. I'm looking forward to tracking down those easter eggs.
I only hope my enthusiasm holds.
The information is out of date. Elites grant 960 and I think normals grant 480 but I have not done any normals.
Check the release notes, most of the dilithium costs for items have dropped as well.
Actually it doesn't give any dilithium now.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
I really like this post, cause its completely true.
If Cryptic was kinda listening, then they would've posted again.
If Cryptic was really listening to our feedback, they would cancel the proposed STF Reputation System and make minor changes to improve the current, working, system.
Boldly going where no one has gone before!
Boldly going where no one has gone before!
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10052253
Why are you not rejoicing?
I agree. However, I'm not freaked about ALL of the changes. A refresh now and then is fine. The BIG issue for me is Dan's (and his team) attitude towards long-time STF players. He's given some really insulting reasons for the obvious TRIBBLE-over that he's dealing dedicated endgamer's, and has refused, so far, to offer any REAL clarification/rebuttals/changes based on the responses we've offered.
This situation is leaving a REALLY bad taste in my mouth, so to speak.
Not a weakness at all, more a personality trait.
common sense ain't that common anymore
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10052253
Why are you not rejoicing?
Translation:
If you want to find out how we TRIBBLE you out of the things you already earned but did not turn you will have to patch to the Test Server, transfer a character and see it for yourself then. We will not help you in any way.
Sorry Cryptic, but this is just laughable. At least when the conversion from Marks to Dilithium came you were open about it and what players would be losing.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
PS: Hey wow, I just opened the 100th page! Nice.
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010