You actually missed my point it was c store was supposed to be cosmetic as in nothing that affects the game in any way...... thats how it was marketed now its selling more and more stuff that has an effect in game...
I'll admit that there is an imbalance right now due to the Galaxy X being in the C-store. However, once Season 2 is on Holodeck, there will be ships of equivalent strength available to players in-game for no additional charge.
As for the special species unlocks in the C-store, each race there is no more powerful than one you have access to automatically through normal game play.
So, any item that can be bought in the C-store continues to have an item of equal power in the game available through natural game play. This is the core of the promise we made to you. We will not sell "I win" buttons for Cryptic Points. The Sword of Khaless, Picard's Wig, and Kirk's Pheromone Cologne, or any other type of Epic Phat Lootz will not be available in the C-store without first making sure that you can earn an item in-game, of equal power. Any item on the store which has an in-game effect will continue to have an item in-game of equal power and usefulness.
I also believe that most everything on the C-store is actually cosmetic when you boil right down to it. The sole exception to this currently is the Galaxy X, and once the Refits come out with Season 2, I believe that imbalance will be corrected. Additionally, according to the vast amount of player feedback, The Galaxy X as it is not not currently out of line with the rest of the ships in the game.
Uniform Options
Off Duty Uniforms
New stances and hairstyles at the tailor.
Klingon
The KTanco Battle Cruiser
New Klingon Only Episodes(Coming Soon)
New Klingon Carrier
Federation
War Games (Fed vs. Fed PvP)
The Diplomatic Corps (Coming Soon)
Defiant/Galaxy/Intrepid Refits
Fleet Actions/Content
The Big Dig
DS9 Under Siege
New Undine Missions and Fleet Action (Coming Soon)
Weekly Featured Episodes (Coming Soon)
Miscellaneous
The Difficulty Slider
The Injury System
Accolades
Squad Support
Mini Games (Coming Soon)
Level Cap Increase, 45-51 (Coming Soon)
Veterans Rewards
Hey storm, thanks for the input on this but, i'd like to quote that and say. Almost everything in there i would very happily trade for the Excelsior and the Nebula. The only thing i wouldn't trade is the diplomatic corps, but just like the Excelsior and the Nebula, Diplomacy mechanics are also part of Star Trek that should have been in-game from day one.
The thing with the community is that we don't like things that SHOULD have been at STO from day one beeing added at the c-store. It creates a precedent.
Klingon sashes, proper exploration content, klingon PvE comparable to fed PvE, romulan faction, first officer and several other things that belong to Star Trek weren't in at launch. Will they be added to the c-store too because they wouldn't be added otherwise as well?
EDIT: Ah, another thing, just saw your post above mine
Cash store in other paid MMO's work with cosmetic itens because those other MMO's aren't based on a franchise. And specially not a franchise as popular as Star Trek.
So adding something that was made popular by that franchise to the Cash Store is even worse than adding game-changing itens. I belive that most people here would agree with me that we would happily wait for the Excelsior and the Nebula to be added later if that meant that they would be avaible by in-game means.
I'll write a personal story here: Star Trek is my favorite piece of fiction there is, and the Excelsior is my favorite ship in Star Trek.
As soon as STO was announced, i started to save money for a LTS, even without knowing if there would be an LTS or not, so that i could play the game without the need to spend more than the initial buck. But, this week i find out that i WILL need to spend more money to play with my favorite ship. That made me indignated to put it lightly.
So, any item that can be bought in the C-store continues to have an item of equal power in the game available through natural game play. This is the core of the promise we made to you. We will not sell "I win" buttons for Cryptic Points. The Sword of Khaless, Picard's Wig, and Kirk's Pheromone Cologne, or any other type of Epic Phat Lootz will not be available in the C-store without first making sure that you can earn an item in-game, of equal power. Any item on the store which has an in-game effect will continue to have an item in-game of equal power and usefulness.
Translation: "Ok, we lied when we said the C-store would only be for cosmetic stuff. However, we're neeeever going to put overpowered stuff on the C-store. Yeah, we lied before, but trust us this time!" :rolleyes:
I also believe that most everything on the C-store is actually cosmetic when you boil right down to it. The sole exception to this currently is the Galaxy X, and once the Refits come out with Season 2, I believe that imbalance will be corrected.
Borg BO is definitely not cosmetic. Neither is the tribble but I'll let that one go since (correct me if I'm wrong) you can get it in-game. In any case, it's very plain to see that this C-store stuff is a slippery slope that is being slid down. People make a very good point when they question the need for a MT store when there is already a monthly sub, you have an admittedly tiny (read: cheap) dev team, and you use more instancing than any other MMO I know of and brag about how efficient your server tech is (read again: cheap). Add the fact that the game needed at least one more year in development on top of all of that and you should be able to see why people are peeved off.
My least favorite part about the C-store is certain bridge packs. If the bridge packs on the C-store were generic I wouldn't mind nearly as much, but you have canon ships like the Prometheus already in-game with the canon bridge for some reason on the C-store. Especially now that interiors are going to play a larger role it seems very odd to charge someone extra money for the "privilege" of using the correct bridge that comes with their ship and should be included in the base game anyway! Even if you decide to ignore the rest of my post, StormShade, please let me know exactly what your rationalization for how the bridge packs are being handled.
Translation: "Ok, we lied when we said the C-store would only be for cosmetic stuff. However, we're neeeever going to put overpowered stuff on the C-store. Yeah, we lied before, but trust us this time!" :rolleyes:
Borg BO is definitely not cosmetic. Neither is the tribble but I'll let that one go since (correct me if I'm wrong) you can get it in-game. In any case, it's very plain to see that this C-store stuff is a slippery slope that is being slid down. People make a very good point when they question the need for a MT store when there is already a monthly sub, you have an admittedly tiny (read: cheap) dev team, and you use more instancing than any other MMO I know of and brag about how efficient your server tech is (read again: cheap). Add the fact that the game needed at least one more year in development on top of all of that and you should be able to see why people are peeved off.
My least favorite part about the C-store is certain bridge packs. If the bridge packs on the C-store were generic I wouldn't mind nearly as much, but you have canon ships like the Prometheus already in-game with the canon bridge for some reason on the C-store. Especially now that interiors are going to play a larger role it seems very odd to charge someone extra money for the "privilege" of using the correct bridge that comes with their ship and should be included in the base game anyway! Even if you decide to ignore the rest of my post, StormShade, please let me know exactly what your rationalization for how the bridge packs are being handled.
I agree with some of the points you've made mate, but i must criticize the tone. Offending the dev team ain't going to get you anywhere. Also, Storm said that itens on the c-store are cosmetic "when you boil right down to it.". That means that no-one would buy the Borg BO or the Tribble because of their powers.
But you're very right about the prommie bridge example. It makes no sense having the ship in-game, and it's bridge on the c-store.
I'll admit that there is an imbalance right now due to the Galaxy X being in the C-store. However, once Season 2 is on Holodeck, there will be ships of equivalent strength available to players in-game for no additional charge.
As for the special species unlocks in the C-store, each race there is no more powerful than one you have access to automatically through normal game play.
So, any item that can be bought in the C-store continues to have an item of equal power in the game available through natural game play. This is the core of the promise we made to you. We will not sell "I win" buttons for Cryptic Points. The Sword of Khaless, Picard's Wig, and Kirk's Pheromone Cologne, or any other type of Epic Phat Lootz will not be available in the C-store without first making sure that you can earn an item in-game, of equal power. Any item on the store which has an in-game effect will continue to have an item in-game of equal power and usefulness.
I also believe that most everything on the C-store is actually cosmetic when you boil right down to it. The sole exception to this currently is the Galaxy X, and once the Refits come out with Season 2, I believe that imbalance will be corrected. Additionally, according to the vast amount of player feedback, The Galaxy X as it is not not currently out of line with the rest of the ships in the game.
Thanks,
Stormshade
Three words totally disprove your point:
Ground Combat Caitians
That means that no-one would buy the Borg BO or the Tribble because of their powers.
Borg BO has Efficient and several handy ground combat skills. In fact many people chose it as their pre-order item BECAUSE OF IT'S POWERS, NOT in spite of them...
I never see people running their Borg BOff LOOKING Borg, they always have it barely borgy if at all. They got it because it's a badass engineer BOFF that you can have at level 1 immediately giving you an advantage over other people because when others are either buying BOffs or working on their 3rd or 4th mission to get a BOFF reward you already have one of each...
You actually missed my point it was c store was supposed to be cosmetic as in nothing that affects the game in any way...... thats how it was marketed now its selling more and more stuff that has an effect in game...
As someone pointed out to me, the wording they used in the past was "substantial." I would agree that everything thus-far, except for the Galaxy-X, has been insignificant. Who cares what mostly useless perks your race has. People buy it for the cosmetic look. Who cares about emotes and ship skins and bridges. But I see Cryptic and whatever other powers that be pushing this farther and farther. I've seen it before and I'll see it again.
I enjoy Star Trek Online, even through its flaws. If the Excelsior and Nebula class ships turn out to have virtually identical specs to ship already in game, they will fall into the category of "not very substantial." The thing that rubs me the wrong way was the poll asking us what we want, and then turning around and saying, "here you go, now you have to pay us for them." It is a smart move by the people who count the tills at the end of the day. Doesn't mean I like it. As others have pointed out, Cryptic is a company. The best way to protest against them is to either not buy the items from the C store, or to cancel your subscription.
However, I must agree with some of the previous posters that the list StormShade provided doesn't look so good. Bug fixes aside, as that is something all MMOs have to do or they will die. Even though I'm primarily a Federation player, I appreciate the Klingon additions. Though I know plenty of people who say you keep ignoring the Klingons and I would have to agree. Those coming soon Klingon only episodes, many people assumed they would have things like that at launch. The "new" ships aren't really new, just given a special ability. I imagine the Galaxy and Intrepid must have taken some work to get their abilities right, but the Defiant must have taken all of an hour to whip together. Even I know how to take a ship with, assign it a new hardpoint, give it a cloak, and call it done (In previous Star Trek games). I'm exaggerating a bit with the one hour, and I know people have been asking for a Defiant with cloak since day one.
For some comparison though, Lord of the Rings online added the equivalent of a entire new sector within the first two months, with more and more quests coming after that. I played that game from launch as well, and was impressed with the content. Six month into this, I'm not so impressed with the content added here.
Also, I would love to see a real expansion. Instead of nickle, diming and Lincolning ($5) us, how about we see a real expansion. Charge is $50 dollars for it, I don't mind. But that would have to include a whole lot more then $50 dollars worth of C-store stuff.
Anyway, I would enjoy the game, have spent lots of money on it already in the investment of my lifetime subscription, and want to see it succeed. I enjoy the game and wish everyone else did too. But the C-store stuff will always rub me the wrong way for anything that isn't as insignificant as a uniform, species, or ship costume.
What Cryptic listened to the players on (What stands out to me, but by far not a comprehensive list, and players may have been divided on if they wanted some of these):
Level cap
Cloak on Defiant
Adding Nebula and Excelsior
Letting the Klingons out of their trailer park
Death Penalty/difficulty slider
Klingon customization options (Though still somewhat limited)
Nerfing the living daylights out of my viral matrix (though it needed to be done)
Many different small things with gameplay mechanics, like power transferring and weapons
Improving exploration (though still could use some work)
Added some end game content soon after release (Though it probably should have been there at launch)
Overall, Cryptic listens to their players, and implements some of what they ask. Of course, they would have to listen or the game would go down the drain as players left. Many of you think that Cryptic is an evil money grubbing company. I can see where you get that idea from. However, I've also decided that many of the players feel that they are entitled to whatever they want, whenever they want. There will always be people like that. Keep on doing good work, and the game will succeed. Though giving players, both Federation and Klingon, a brand new ship or three, would do wonders. No, these refits don't count. The Klingons have received a few, so I say give the Federation players a few ships, and give the Klingons some customization options and gasp, some more non-PvP content.
And again Cryptic, if these new ships turn out to be uniquely powered and expensive like the Galaxy-X, then I won't be as much on your side as I am now.
Borg BO has Efficient and several handy ground combat skills. In fact many people chose it as their pre-order item BECAUSE OF IT'S POWERS, NOT in spite of them...
I never see people running their Borg BOff LOOKING Borg, they always have it barely borgy if at all. They got it because it's a badass engineer BOFF that you can have at level 1 immediately giving you an advantage over other people because when others are either buying BOffs or working on their 3rd or 4th mission to get a BOFF reward you already have one of each...
Borg BOs have an equivalent in game. EXTREMELY hard to get, but the efficient BOs exist. If you could get a efficient BO easier, then they would not fall into that category, as of right now, they border it.
As for the Caitians, I've never played mine in PvP, or against anyone with one in PvP, so I can't say if they are overpowered. If they are, I think they should be brought back in line, though that would make many people angry and so will probably never happened since they payed extra for it.
I'll admit that there is an imbalance right now due to the Galaxy X being in the C-store. However, once Season 2 is on Holodeck, there will be ships of equivalent strength available to players in-game for no additional charge.
As for the special species unlocks in the C-store, each race there is no more powerful than one you have access to automatically through normal game play.
So, any item that can be bought in the C-store continues to have an item of equal power in the game available through natural game play. This is the core of the promise we made to you. We will not sell "I win" buttons for Cryptic Points. The Sword of Khaless, Picard's Wig, and Kirk's Pheromone Cologne, or any other type of Epic Phat Lootz will not be available in the C-store without first making sure that you can earn an item in-game, of equal power. Any item on the store which has an in-game effect will continue to have an item in-game of equal power and usefulness.
I also believe that most everything on the C-store is actually cosmetic when you boil right down to it. The sole exception to this currently is the Galaxy X, and once the Refits come out with Season 2, I believe that imbalance will be corrected. Additionally, according to the vast amount of player feedback, The Galaxy X as it is not not currently out of line with the rest of the ships in the game.
Thanks,
Stormshade
That reminds me. Waht stats are the Nebula and Excelsior goign to have? They can't be reskins eh design is different from what we have in game. So can I assume these ships are not going to be an advantage in some way or antoehr?
Oh and BTW. These ships will never be able to be evolved/refited. Thanks for pigieonholing some of our favorite ships into mediocricy forever just to make a quick buck on the C-store.
My only request in regards to ships (be it C store or just in game) is to see some Klingon stuff added. My preference would be to start seeing the Klingon tiers fitted out with 3 choices per ship like the Federation currently is. With the understanding that said customization would not happen in one patch. But, at this point, I would even accept a couple of variants in the C-Store (Like the K-Vort being made availabie in place of the K'tinga maybe).
Not to mention numerous bug fixes, and other minor changes and polish weve made based on your feedback.
I think a lot of the problem is that many players feel like including major canon elements is the same thing as a sentimental "bug fix," just as much as correcting a balance issue or removing a mission that's no fun.
I'm getting the sense that a lot of players feel like "X from the shows/movies is a big part of why I'm here and I should be able to play (with) it from the baseline entry fee/subscription."
I'm pretty sure those players don't care that the C-Store is the only way to get certain items into the development budget/schedule ASAP...hence much complaining.
Ground PvP requires 40 kills for a win and usually drags on forever, many don't do it. I have STILL not seen Shanty Town. And I've been signing up to do it every time I decide to PvP...then I go play for 3 hours and never get called up because few people PvP even fewer ground PvP...and this is at ranks from Lt. Cmdr to Admiral...
Uniform Options
Off Duty Uniforms
New stances and hairstyles at the tailor.
New stances...so I can make my guy look like a drunkard/pedophile thanks to the newest "stance"? I'd also rather have a Tellerite than a spikey haircut for free...
Klingon
The KTanco Battle Cruiser
New Klingon Only Episodes(Coming Soon)
New Klingon Carrier
Don't play Klingons because they have no PvE except exploration and no crafting...6 months after launch I don't count episodes that aren't out yet and I don't count ships I can't get because I can't level due to lack of PvE content...
Federation
War Games (Fed vs. Fed PvP)
The Diplomatic Corps (Coming Soon)
Defiant/Galaxy/Intrepid Refits
Refits that you need to be max level to get, by which point many people move back to playing a lower level alt to level that character...
Fleet Actions/Content
The Big Dig
DS9 Under Siege
New Undine Missions and Fleet Action (Coming Soon)
Weekly Featured Episodes (Coming Soon)
Fleet Actions that are almost always too underpopulated to get done, content that isn't even in the live game shouldn't be referenced...
Miscellaneous
The Difficulty Slider
The Injury System
Accolades
Squad Support
Mini Games (Coming Soon)
Level Cap Increase, 45-51 (Coming Soon)
Veterans Rewards
Accolades...for the OCD people that MUST have something to complete and have already filled all their slots with max level people and maxed their gear...again something to keep people playing an paying...
Squad Support, if we can't play with our friends we'll all find another game to play together, that is a win win...that's like saying "Hey! I avoided that on-coming semi while I was driving, you owe me...even though it saved my life as well and is something I would have done rather or not you were here."
Veteran's rewards, the longest off version is stuff I paid to get anyway (Captain's Table access via lifetime sub, etc) I get a vanity ship...cool...
Not to mention numerous bug fixes, and other minor changes and polish weve made based on your feedback.
Kinda figured getting you to debug the game we're paying to play was a right not a privilege...plus that helps you as much as us...cause if it's buggy we won't pay to play...
Honestly the only thing you guys could really do that wouldn't actually serve you and would be entirely seen as a positive gesture is to include these much demanded ships in the game for free...You already milked us for several highly demanded species and one entire ship...
You could at least give us ONE of the two ships...you gave us off-duty clothes (which almost no one wears) and that's cosmetic...though we spend 70% of our time looking at our ship.....
As soon as STO was announced, i started to save money for a LTS, even without knowing if there would be an LTS or not, so that i could play the game without the need to spend more than the initial buck. But, this week i find out that i WILL need to spend more money to play with my favorite ship. That made me indignated to put it lightly.
they don't care, you and me are just a statistic, and that poll they gave us was a way to get money out of us by using our favorite ships against us. it's really despicable. I'm in the same boat as you my favorite ship is coming to the game, but it's coming to the C-store. if I remember right we all had a fit over the vespa vs the excelsior back in pre beta. everyone wanted it instead of the vespa, but it's clear now, they were saving it to charge the trekkies. it's almost like marketing is trying to make us hate them while keeping the sheep inline.
Thanks again for all of your feedback. It really is incredibly valued.
I understand that some of you are upset that the Excelsior and Nebula Class vessels are headed to the C-Store. Theres a number of reasons for this, and I want to try and address them for you.
Some people are upset because they feel these items shouldnt go into the C-Store because theyre "Canon Ships".
I can understand this view point, and Ill make sure to pass it along. I also want to remind you however that we use the C-store to make things that you are requesting, which otherwise would not make it into the game. So, without the C-store, there would be no excelsior or Nebula in STO for some time.
The most prevalent reason seems to be that some people feel as though theyre not getting enough bang for their subscription buck right now. Its very true that your subscription fees do go towards the ongoing development of Star Trek Online. So, I thought I would remind you all of some of the things weve added since launch for free to all of our players.
PvP
Shanty Town PvP Map
Uniform Options
Off Duty Uniforms
New stances and hairstyles at the tailor.
Klingon
The KTanco Battle Cruiser
New Klingon Only Episodes(Coming Soon)
New Klingon Carrier
Federation
War Games (Fed vs. Fed PvP)
The Diplomatic Corps (Coming Soon)
Defiant/Galaxy/Intrepid Refits
Fleet Actions/Content
The Big Dig
DS9 Under Siege
New Undine Missions and Fleet Action (Coming Soon)
Weekly Featured Episodes (Coming Soon)
Miscellaneous
The Difficulty Slider
The Injury System
Accolades
Squad Support
Mini Games (Coming Soon)
Level Cap Increase, 45-51 (Coming Soon)
Veterans Rewards
Not to mention numerous bug fixes, and other minor changes and polish weve made based on your feedback. Were already hard at work planning Season 3 for you right now as well! Almost all of the things listed above have been things that you, our community, has asked us to make happen for you. I personally feel that the Dev Team is doing a great job of pushing out content that you all have been asking for, and at a bang up pace.
However, Im also seeing that you guys would like to see some more customization updates included in the next big update. It may not happen for Season 2, but I will make sure to pass that along to the Dev Team so they can keep that in mind as theyre planning Season 3 and beyond.
Thanks,
Stormshade
Stormy,
Please realize that nothing we say here should be taken personally by you or any of the dev team. After reviewing everything you have listed above, I give and and the team credit.
You have all spent alot of time and energy trying to get things to where they are. For that we are all thankful. But I think you have glossed over the fact the at the end of the day, there are alot of us that feel that Cryptic has not acted in good faith or given us what we feel is the value that we deserved for the monies that we have spent.
To explain, I don't think you can argue that the game was not complete at launch, lacked serious content and had more non-canon material than canon. Fixing bugs, adding polish, fleshing out content and making the game playable, while admirable, was expected, not something to be credited for.
I understand the point of the C-Store. I don't particularly like it, but I knew it was going to be there going in. I have even made several purchases, but before the Galaxy X purchase, I felt that they were all transactions that were not neccessary, but just fluff. I think where most people feel betrayed, as I do, is that for every bug fix, there is content added to the C-Store. For every new piece of content, another C-Store update. While this is all fine and good, it does start to drag a bit. Add to that the fact that the whole point of taking a poll for what we would like to see in the way of ships never included the fact that they would be monitized. Now knowing what the polling system is for, I will no longer use it. As a former player of table-top rpg player, I feel like I'm having to buy every book that I'm going to need to play the game effectively as a seperate purchase. That is not how any MMO that I have ever played works. While Everquest 2 now has the "Station Store" up as an attempt to generate supplemental revenue, they have tried to make sure that the game is playable without that content.
While you nor anyone else may want to admit it or acknowledge it, trying to classify the Nebula and Excelsior Class ships as premium content just does not fly. I have 5 different MMO's that I pay a monthly sub for as well as buy the yearly expansion for without uttering a foul word as I feel I am getting value for my money. I dilligently do so as the development teams give me almost monthly content updates, so I support them when the yearly pilgrimage rolls around.
STO is barely 5 months out of the gate and the most anticipated and desired content is being monitized while still not having fixed the base game itself yet. If this were 18 months from now, this might leave a different taste in our mouths, but it's not. Don't take this personally, but right now this content is stuff that we feel we are owed for the monies that we have spent. As of yet, the value scale has not swung in the consumers direction.
Again, please don't take this personally, just as the honest view from here. I really do feel for you in that you have to deal with us as I do know where the decisions are made. But please let them know that the money grab for my wallet is over.
Borg BOs have an equivalent in game. EXTREMELY hard to get, but the efficient BOs exist. If you could get a efficient BO easier, then they would not fall into that category, as of right now, they border it.
As for the Caitians, I've never played mine in PvP, or against anyone with one in PvP, so I can't say if they are overpowered. If they are, I think they should be brought back in line, though that would make many people angry and so will probably never happened since they payed extra for it.
There's only one BO that comes close to the Borg BO from the C-Store and that's the one you get at Rear Admiral by completing the 3 STFs and that one doesn't have efficient, I'm not talking JUST efficient but that trait plus the other innate borg traits...my Borg Boff has never been on the ship during an away mission....
PLease realize that nothing we say here should be taken personally by you or any of the dev team. After reviewing everything you have listed above, I give and and the team credit.
You have all spent alot of time and energy trying to get things to where they are. For that we are all thankful. But I think you have glossed over the fact the at the end of the day, there are alot of us that feel that Cryptic has not acted in good faith or given us what we feel is the value that we deserved for the monies that we have spent.
To explain, I don't think you can argue that the game was not complete at launch, lacked serious content and had more non-canon material than canon. Fixing bugs, adding polish, fleshing out content and making the game playable, while admirable, was expected, not something to be credited for.
I understand the point of the C-Store. I don't particularly like it, but I knew it was going to be there going in. I have even made several purchases, but before the Galaxy X purchase, I felt that they were all transactions that were not neccessary, but just fluff. I think where most people feel betrayed, as I do, is that for every bug fix, there is content added to the C-Store. For every new piece of content, another C-Store update. While this is all fine and good, it does start to drag a bit. Add to that the fact that the whole point of taking a poll for what we would like to see in the way of ships never included the fact that they would be monitized. Now knowing what the polling system is for, I will no longer use it. As a former player of table-top rpg player, I feel like I'm having to buy every book that I'm going to need to play the game effectively as a seperate purchase. That is not how any MMO that I have ever played works. While Everquest 2 now has the "Station Store" up as an attempt to generate supplemental revenue, they have tried to make sure that the game is playable without that content.
While you nor anyone else may want to admit it or acknowledge it, trying to classify the Nebula and Excelsior Class ships as premium content just does not fly. I have 5 different MMO's that I pay a monthly sub for as well as buy the yearly expansion for without uttering a foul word as I feel I am getting value for my money. I dilligently do so as the development teams give me almost monthly content updates, so I support them when the yearly pilgrimage rolls around.
STO is barely 5 months out of the gate and the most anticipated and desired content is being monitized while still not having fixed the base game itself yet. If this were 18 months from now, this might leave a different taste in our mouths, but it's not. Don't take this personally, but right now this content is stuff that we feel we are owed for the monies that we have spent. As of yet, the value scale has not swung in the consumers direction.
Again, please don't take this personally, just as the honest view from here. I really do feel for you in that you have to deal with us as I do know where the decisions are made. But please let them know that the money grab for my wallet is over.
PLease realize that nothing we say here should be taken personally by you or any of the dev team. After reviewing everything you have listed above, I give and and the team credit.
You have all spent alot of time and energy trying to get things to where they are. For that we are all thankful. But I think you have glossed over the fact the at the end of the day, there are alot of us that feel that Cryptic has not acted in good faith or given us what we feel is the value that we deserved for the monies that we have spent.
To explain, I don't think you can argue that the game was not complete at launch, lacked serious content and had more non-canon material than canon. Fixing bugs, adding polish, fleshing out content and making the game playable, while admirable, was expected, not something to be credited for.
I understand the point of the C-Store. I don't particularly like it, but I knew it was going to be there going in. I have even made several purchases, but before the Galaxy X purchase, I felt that they were all transactions that were not neccessary, but just fluff. I think where most people feel betrayed, as I do, is that for every bug fix, there is content added to the C-Store. For every new piece of content, another C-Store update. While this is all fine and good, it does start to drag a bit. Add to that the fact that the whole point of taking a poll for what we would like to see in the way of ships never included the fact that they would be monitized. Now knowing what the polling system is for, I will no longer use it. As a former player of table-top rpg player, I feel like I'm having to buy every book that I'm going to need to play the game effectively as a seperate purchase. That is not how any MMO that I have ever played works. While Everquest 2 now has the "Station Store" up as an attempt to generate supplemental revenue, they have tried to make sure that the game is playable without that content.
While you nor anyone else may want to admit it or acknowledge it, trying to classify the Nebula and Excelsior Class ships as premium content just does not fly. I have 5 different MMO's that I pay a monthly sub for as well as buy the yearly expansion for without uttering a foul word as I feel I am getting value for my money. I dilligently do so as the development teams give me almost monthly content updates, so I support them when the yearly pilgrimage rolls around.
STO is barely 5 months out of the gate and the most anticipated and desired content is being monitized while still not having fixed the base game itself yet. If this were 18 months from now, this might leave a different taste in our mouths, but it's not. Don't take this personally, but right now this content is stuff that we feel we are owed for the monies that we have spent. As of yet, the value scale has not swung in the consumers direction.
Again, please don't take this personally, just as the honest view from here. I really do feel for you in that you have to deal with us as I do know where the decisions are made. But please let them know that the money grab for my wallet is over.
Borg BO is definitely not cosmetic. Neither is the tribble but I'll let that one go since (correct me if I'm wrong) you can get it in-game. In any case, it's very plain to see that this C-store stuff is a slippery slope that is being slid down. People make a very good point when they question the need for a MT store when there is already a monthly sub, you have an admittedly tiny (read: cheap) dev team, and you use more instancing than any other MMO I know of and brag about how efficient your server tech is (read again: cheap). Add the fact that the game needed at least one more year in development on top of all of that and you should be able to see why people are peeved off.
My least favorite part about the C-store is certain bridge packs. If the bridge packs on the C-store were generic I wouldn't mind nearly as much, but you have canon ships like the Prometheus already in-game with the canon bridge for some reason on the C-store. Especially now that interiors are going to play a larger role it seems very odd to charge someone extra money for the "privilege" of using the correct bridge that comes with their ship and should be included in the base game anyway! Even if you decide to ignore the rest of my post, StormShade, please let me know exactly what your rationalization for how the bridge packs are being handled.[/QUOTE]
I have to stop you there for a reason. You are correct that they have told us it would be cosmetic and then put the Galaxy X in. They are 'attempting' to make up for it with ships for season 2...rather federation ships for season 2.
As for the borg BO...she doesn't do anything my blue and purple BO's can do already...in fact my primary engineer has a better skill distribution for away missions than her...so it is cosmetic.
As for the bridge packs being extra...I could see paying for them with points if they were famous bridges such as TOS Enterprise...NX Enterprise...or other famous ships, however that being said the stuff they sell on the klingon side for bridges suck. Try sitting your captain in the chair on one of those...a normal klink sits there either with his feet sunk into the deckplating, or he cannot sit in the chair without clipping issues. If they are going to sell us bridge options they need to make sure its a well-built bridge that I don't have to worry about my captain being too tall...I mean come on...
Yeah, honestly all the focus on C-store items does seem to over shadow anything that had been released so far. Maybe the stuff you've released while good and original isn't what would really make the fans drool.
It doesn't help the impression that the game was rushed with a lack of content. It also adds to the whole notion that all the cool stuff is in the C-store. Gamers especially core gamers seem to really against the idea of being nickel and dimed to death.
Putting out awesome stuff in the C-store is a double edged sword. Yeah it makes people want it and generates real sales, but that also means a large portion of people will feel angry if it costs too much (*cough*$25) and feel like they are being taken advantage of.
The C-store should be for micro transactions, micro as in small. Keep the stuff cheap and you'll get way less flack and maybe even more sales.
I'll admit that there is an imbalance right now due to the Galaxy X being in the C-store. However, once Season 2 is on Holodeck, there will be ships of equivalent strength available to players in-game for no additional charge.
...
I also believe that most everything on the C-store is actually cosmetic when you boil right down to it. The sole exception to this currently is the Galaxy X, and once the Refits come out with Season 2, I believe that imbalance will be corrected. Additionally, according to the vast amount of player feedback, The Galaxy X as it is not not currently out of line with the rest of the ships in the game.
Thanks,
Stormshade
This doesn't make sense. On the one hand, you acknowledge that the fact that the Galaxy-X has gameplay differences (without necessarily being imbalanced) is at odds with the original promises, then claim that its differences are 'really' just cosmetic. I strongly disagree. When the differences cross into actual game mechanics rather than cosmetics, it is always a situation of "pay for power", even when the power granted is a broader array of options to choose from rather than outright superiority.
And yes, I feel this applies to the C-store species going back to the Tellarites. If the powers are so meaningless, why not stick them into the Alien generation options, at least as something that can be unlocked in game for a tiny little "new game plus" bonus option on alts*?
The new ships are also not adding identical mechanics to the Galaxy-X, unless I missed the one that's getting an AoE beam overload that ignores Line-of-Sight?
As for the actual thread topic, if the Excelsior and Nebula are only skins then obviously they won't violate the principles outlined above that the game was sold to me under**. I would still consider it annoying and bordering on silly that these two major workhorses with many canon appearances, shown to be active contemporary to most of the other ship classes in-game, would be paid addons rather than as part of the IP core of the game. I won't be paying for them either way, since I've hoped for the Nebula to anchor a fourth line of Federation ships down the road in development and I refuse to support game mechanics being sold in the C-store without being unlockable in-game***.
*This idea is taken directly from Mass Effect.
**and part of why I now strongly regret taking the leap of faith to get a Lifetime after the profoundly mediocre but apparently improving beta.
***yes, I regret buying my Caitian, seeing that Cryptic has seen fit to keep on trucking past the line.
one reason would be the fact that they would make more money because people thought they were buying power, and that was the only fed ship with cloak in the game.
I think you'll find that the 'screaming' is about how the ship poll has been turned into a tool to find out what will get them the most money as opposed to what it seemed like, which was to find out which ship most players wanted to see added to the game. Of course there was no mention of it being a C-Store item in the poll but as I and at least one other have said now it will be the last poll I participate in for that reason alone.
As for the last paragraph you wrote well that just made me laugh. You say blame the people who rushed to get their Galaxy X and then admit you'd buy the Enterprise J the second it went live. You're smart to not say you blame them so you can avoid being a hypocrit but it also shows you're crazy and should not be allowed near pointy things. The Enterprise J?! You're either on too little or too many meds.
To me it never "seemed like" the poll suggested they would add the ships in game for free. I think anyone w/ an ounce of common sense would have seen the possibility that it was a marketing poll to find out what people would pay for. Blame yourself for jumping to conclusions or making assumptions over what the poll's intention was.
Hey everyone! As I'm sure you noticed, there was a brief delay in new polls as we caught up with some other things around the office.
I think you'll agree however, that this newest poll was worth the wait...
Which "Official" Starship class would you most like to see added?
It was never stated that the ships would be free and they are obviously being added in game, just not for free.
Secondly, I myself have no issue w/ the ships going on the C-store. I never blamed those who bought the GX for wanting it or ranted against Cryptic for putting it up so I don't see how I am a hypocrite. I merely said that if you folks hell bent on blaming someone for this move want a target you should look at those who bought the GX for showing Cryptic that it was something people would go for. If the Ent J goes up I'll def buy it as I said, so go ahead and toss some blame of me if you want for letting Cryptic know that I would gladly avail myself of the service should a ship that I like be introduced.
As for my personal taste in ships, last time I checked I was living in a free country where I was entitled to my personal preference and opinions. I don't desire or require you to agree w/ me but seeing as to how the Ent J came 3rd on that poll w/ 1875 votes I'm clearly not alone in my appreciation for the design.
I'm glad however that my post was able to make you laugh, after all laughter is a wonderful thing.
Uniform Options
Off Duty Uniforms
New stances and hairstyles at the tailor.
Klingon
The KTanco Battle Cruiser
New Klingon Only Episodes(Coming Soon)
New Klingon Carrier
Federation
War Games (Fed vs. Fed PvP)
The Diplomatic Corps (Coming Soon)
Defiant/Galaxy/Intrepid Refits
Fleet Actions/Content The Big Dig
DS9 Under Siege
New Undine Missions and Fleet Action (Coming Soon)
Weekly Featured Episodes (Coming Soon)
Miscellaneous The Difficulty Slider
The Injury System
Accolades
Squad Support
Mini Games (Coming Soon)
Level Cap Increase, 45-51 (Coming Soon)
Veterans Rewards
Not to mention numerous bug fixes,
Normally I don't usually go this route. But since you mentioned bug fixes, I just thought I'd offer some feedback.
In your list I bolded some of the features you've added. The reason I've bolded them is that they are and have been bugged since they were put into the game.
The fleet actions like Big Dig and DS9 have some bugs, such as times I've played both I've had mission objectives not complete because, for instance only 19 out of 20 glowing objects appeared on the map. Or one force field in DS9 would not turn off.
The Difficulty Slider created a problem with certain sets of NPCs. And this problem was acknowledged as a bug. And was under investigation. And still is a bug. And no fix for it.
I appreciate the new content. I appreciate all the work you folks do for the game.
But as new content gets prioritized, it seems some long standing bugs get continually shuffled to the back burner.
Just want to feedback that and hope that you know, some of those bugs stop being forgotten.
To me it never "seemed like" the poll suggested they would add the ships in game for free. I think anyone w/ an ounce of common sense would have seen the possibility that it was a marketing poll to find out what people would pay for. Blame yourself for jumping to conclusions or making assumptions over what the poll's intention was.
It was never stated that the ships would be free and they are obviously being added in game, just not for free.
Secondly, I myself have no issue w/ the ships going on the C-store. I never blamed those who bought the GX for wanting it or ranted against Cryptic for putting it up so I don't see how I am a hypocrite. I merely said that if you folks hell bent on blaming someone for this move want a target you should look at those who bought the GX for showing Cryptic that it was something people would go for. If the Ent J goes up I'll def buy it as I said, so go ahead and toss some blame of me if you want for letting Cryptic know that I would gladly avail myself of the service should a ship that I like be introduced.
As for my personal taste in ships, last time I checked I was living in a free country where I was entitled to my personal preference and opinions. I don't desire or require you to agree w/ me but seeing as to how the Ent J came 3rd on that poll w/ 1875 votes I'm clearly not alone in my appreciation for the design.
I'm glad however that my post was able to make you laugh, after all laughter is a wonderful thing.
Uh...
Wow... There, I laughed.
You and I obviously play different games as I have been on several advisory committee's and contribute recommendations to games that I play all the time, knowing that I will not get charged a fee for it. And I do it with 2 ounces of common sense and no need to resort to insulting someone because they do not share their opinion. As has been put forth by the devs and mods, feedback is appreciated, not insults. Please direct your snide comments to the mirror. See, that's funny too...
You and I obviously play different games as I have been on several advisory committee's and contribute recommendations to games that I play all the time, knowing that I will not get charged a fee for it. And I do it with 2 ounces of common sense and no need to resort to insulting someone because they do not share their opinion. As has been put forth by the devs and mods, feedback is appreciated, not insults. Please direct your snide comments to the mirror. See, that's funny too...
So you're telling me that he can directly insult me by calling me a crazy hypocrite but I can't make a general statement about the obvious lack in judgment used in not even considering the possibility that the poll might be used for marketing purposes?
If you were charged for voting then I guess we are playing 2 different games. I don't remember anyone charging me for participating in that poll so I'm not sure how you were charged a fee for participating in it and contributing w/ your vote.
Comments
I'll admit that there is an imbalance right now due to the Galaxy X being in the C-store. However, once Season 2 is on Holodeck, there will be ships of equivalent strength available to players in-game for no additional charge.
As for the special species unlocks in the C-store, each race there is no more powerful than one you have access to automatically through normal game play.
So, any item that can be bought in the C-store continues to have an item of equal power in the game available through natural game play. This is the core of the promise we made to you. We will not sell "I win" buttons for Cryptic Points. The Sword of Khaless, Picard's Wig, and Kirk's Pheromone Cologne, or any other type of Epic Phat Lootz will not be available in the C-store without first making sure that you can earn an item in-game, of equal power. Any item on the store which has an in-game effect will continue to have an item in-game of equal power and usefulness.
I also believe that most everything on the C-store is actually cosmetic when you boil right down to it. The sole exception to this currently is the Galaxy X, and once the Refits come out with Season 2, I believe that imbalance will be corrected. Additionally, according to the vast amount of player feedback, The Galaxy X as it is not not currently out of line with the rest of the ships in the game.
Thanks,
Stormshade
Hey storm, thanks for the input on this but, i'd like to quote that and say. Almost everything in there i would very happily trade for the Excelsior and the Nebula. The only thing i wouldn't trade is the diplomatic corps, but just like the Excelsior and the Nebula, Diplomacy mechanics are also part of Star Trek that should have been in-game from day one.
The thing with the community is that we don't like things that SHOULD have been at STO from day one beeing added at the c-store. It creates a precedent.
Klingon sashes, proper exploration content, klingon PvE comparable to fed PvE, romulan faction, first officer and several other things that belong to Star Trek weren't in at launch. Will they be added to the c-store too because they wouldn't be added otherwise as well?
EDIT: Ah, another thing, just saw your post above mine
Cash store in other paid MMO's work with cosmetic itens because those other MMO's aren't based on a franchise. And specially not a franchise as popular as Star Trek.
So adding something that was made popular by that franchise to the Cash Store is even worse than adding game-changing itens. I belive that most people here would agree with me that we would happily wait for the Excelsior and the Nebula to be added later if that meant that they would be avaible by in-game means.
I'll write a personal story here: Star Trek is my favorite piece of fiction there is, and the Excelsior is my favorite ship in Star Trek.
As soon as STO was announced, i started to save money for a LTS, even without knowing if there would be an LTS or not, so that i could play the game without the need to spend more than the initial buck. But, this week i find out that i WILL need to spend more money to play with my favorite ship. That made me indignated to put it lightly.
Translation: "Ok, we lied when we said the C-store would only be for cosmetic stuff. However, we're neeeever going to put overpowered stuff on the C-store. Yeah, we lied before, but trust us this time!" :rolleyes:
Borg BO is definitely not cosmetic. Neither is the tribble but I'll let that one go since (correct me if I'm wrong) you can get it in-game. In any case, it's very plain to see that this C-store stuff is a slippery slope that is being slid down. People make a very good point when they question the need for a MT store when there is already a monthly sub, you have an admittedly tiny (read: cheap) dev team, and you use more instancing than any other MMO I know of and brag about how efficient your server tech is (read again: cheap). Add the fact that the game needed at least one more year in development on top of all of that and you should be able to see why people are peeved off.
My least favorite part about the C-store is certain bridge packs. If the bridge packs on the C-store were generic I wouldn't mind nearly as much, but you have canon ships like the Prometheus already in-game with the canon bridge for some reason on the C-store. Especially now that interiors are going to play a larger role it seems very odd to charge someone extra money for the "privilege" of using the correct bridge that comes with their ship and should be included in the base game anyway! Even if you decide to ignore the rest of my post, StormShade, please let me know exactly what your rationalization for how the bridge packs are being handled.
I agree with some of the points you've made mate, but i must criticize the tone. Offending the dev team ain't going to get you anywhere. Also, Storm said that itens on the c-store are cosmetic "when you boil right down to it.". That means that no-one would buy the Borg BO or the Tribble because of their powers.
But you're very right about the prommie bridge example. It makes no sense having the ship in-game, and it's bridge on the c-store.
Three words totally disprove your point:
Ground Combat Caitians
Borg BO has Efficient and several handy ground combat skills. In fact many people chose it as their pre-order item BECAUSE OF IT'S POWERS, NOT in spite of them...
I never see people running their Borg BOff LOOKING Borg, they always have it barely borgy if at all. They got it because it's a badass engineer BOFF that you can have at level 1 immediately giving you an advantage over other people because when others are either buying BOffs or working on their 3rd or 4th mission to get a BOFF reward you already have one of each...
As someone pointed out to me, the wording they used in the past was "substantial." I would agree that everything thus-far, except for the Galaxy-X, has been insignificant. Who cares what mostly useless perks your race has. People buy it for the cosmetic look. Who cares about emotes and ship skins and bridges. But I see Cryptic and whatever other powers that be pushing this farther and farther. I've seen it before and I'll see it again.
I enjoy Star Trek Online, even through its flaws. If the Excelsior and Nebula class ships turn out to have virtually identical specs to ship already in game, they will fall into the category of "not very substantial." The thing that rubs me the wrong way was the poll asking us what we want, and then turning around and saying, "here you go, now you have to pay us for them." It is a smart move by the people who count the tills at the end of the day. Doesn't mean I like it. As others have pointed out, Cryptic is a company. The best way to protest against them is to either not buy the items from the C store, or to cancel your subscription.
However, I must agree with some of the previous posters that the list StormShade provided doesn't look so good. Bug fixes aside, as that is something all MMOs have to do or they will die. Even though I'm primarily a Federation player, I appreciate the Klingon additions. Though I know plenty of people who say you keep ignoring the Klingons and I would have to agree. Those coming soon Klingon only episodes, many people assumed they would have things like that at launch. The "new" ships aren't really new, just given a special ability. I imagine the Galaxy and Intrepid must have taken some work to get their abilities right, but the Defiant must have taken all of an hour to whip together. Even I know how to take a ship with, assign it a new hardpoint, give it a cloak, and call it done (In previous Star Trek games). I'm exaggerating a bit with the one hour, and I know people have been asking for a Defiant with cloak since day one.
For some comparison though, Lord of the Rings online added the equivalent of a entire new sector within the first two months, with more and more quests coming after that. I played that game from launch as well, and was impressed with the content. Six month into this, I'm not so impressed with the content added here.
Also, I would love to see a real expansion. Instead of nickle, diming and Lincolning ($5) us, how about we see a real expansion. Charge is $50 dollars for it, I don't mind. But that would have to include a whole lot more then $50 dollars worth of C-store stuff.
Anyway, I would enjoy the game, have spent lots of money on it already in the investment of my lifetime subscription, and want to see it succeed. I enjoy the game and wish everyone else did too. But the C-store stuff will always rub me the wrong way for anything that isn't as insignificant as a uniform, species, or ship costume.
What Cryptic listened to the players on (What stands out to me, but by far not a comprehensive list, and players may have been divided on if they wanted some of these):
Level cap
Cloak on Defiant
Adding Nebula and Excelsior
Letting the Klingons out of their trailer park
Death Penalty/difficulty slider
Klingon customization options (Though still somewhat limited)
Nerfing the living daylights out of my viral matrix (though it needed to be done)
Many different small things with gameplay mechanics, like power transferring and weapons
Improving exploration (though still could use some work)
Added some end game content soon after release (Though it probably should have been there at launch)
Overall, Cryptic listens to their players, and implements some of what they ask. Of course, they would have to listen or the game would go down the drain as players left. Many of you think that Cryptic is an evil money grubbing company. I can see where you get that idea from. However, I've also decided that many of the players feel that they are entitled to whatever they want, whenever they want. There will always be people like that. Keep on doing good work, and the game will succeed. Though giving players, both Federation and Klingon, a brand new ship or three, would do wonders. No, these refits don't count. The Klingons have received a few, so I say give the Federation players a few ships, and give the Klingons some customization options and gasp, some more non-PvP content.
And again Cryptic, if these new ships turn out to be uniquely powered and expensive like the Galaxy-X, then I won't be as much on your side as I am now.
Borg BOs have an equivalent in game. EXTREMELY hard to get, but the efficient BOs exist. If you could get a efficient BO easier, then they would not fall into that category, as of right now, they border it.
As for the Caitians, I've never played mine in PvP, or against anyone with one in PvP, so I can't say if they are overpowered. If they are, I think they should be brought back in line, though that would make many people angry and so will probably never happened since they payed extra for it.
That reminds me. Waht stats are the Nebula and Excelsior goign to have? They can't be reskins eh design is different from what we have in game. So can I assume these ships are not going to be an advantage in some way or antoehr?
Oh and BTW. These ships will never be able to be evolved/refited. Thanks for pigieonholing some of our favorite ships into mediocricy forever just to make a quick buck on the C-store.
I think a lot of the problem is that many players feel like including major canon elements is the same thing as a sentimental "bug fix," just as much as correcting a balance issue or removing a mission that's no fun.
I'm getting the sense that a lot of players feel like "X from the shows/movies is a big part of why I'm here and I should be able to play (with) it from the baseline entry fee/subscription."
I'm pretty sure those players don't care that the C-Store is the only way to get certain items into the development budget/schedule ASAP...hence much complaining.
Just a guess.
Ground PvP requires 40 kills for a win and usually drags on forever, many don't do it. I have STILL not seen Shanty Town. And I've been signing up to do it every time I decide to PvP...then I go play for 3 hours and never get called up because few people PvP even fewer ground PvP...and this is at ranks from Lt. Cmdr to Admiral...
New stances...so I can make my guy look like a drunkard/pedophile thanks to the newest "stance"? I'd also rather have a Tellerite than a spikey haircut for free...
Don't play Klingons because they have no PvE except exploration and no crafting...6 months after launch I don't count episodes that aren't out yet and I don't count ships I can't get because I can't level due to lack of PvE content...
Refits that you need to be max level to get, by which point many people move back to playing a lower level alt to level that character...
Fleet Actions that are almost always too underpopulated to get done, content that isn't even in the live game shouldn't be referenced...
Accolades...for the OCD people that MUST have something to complete and have already filled all their slots with max level people and maxed their gear...again something to keep people playing an paying...
Squad Support, if we can't play with our friends we'll all find another game to play together, that is a win win...that's like saying "Hey! I avoided that on-coming semi while I was driving, you owe me...even though it saved my life as well and is something I would have done rather or not you were here."
Veteran's rewards, the longest off version is stuff I paid to get anyway (Captain's Table access via lifetime sub, etc) I get a vanity ship...cool...
Kinda figured getting you to debug the game we're paying to play was a right not a privilege...plus that helps you as much as us...cause if it's buggy we won't pay to play...
Honestly the only thing you guys could really do that wouldn't actually serve you and would be entirely seen as a positive gesture is to include these much demanded ships in the game for free...You already milked us for several highly demanded species and one entire ship...
You could at least give us ONE of the two ships...you gave us off-duty clothes (which almost no one wears) and that's cosmetic...though we spend 70% of our time looking at our ship.....
*shakes head*
You would make a really bad car salesman, Storm.
they don't care, you and me are just a statistic, and that poll they gave us was a way to get money out of us by using our favorite ships against us. it's really despicable. I'm in the same boat as you my favorite ship is coming to the game, but it's coming to the C-store. if I remember right we all had a fit over the vespa vs the excelsior back in pre beta. everyone wanted it instead of the vespa, but it's clear now, they were saving it to charge the trekkies. it's almost like marketing is trying to make us hate them while keeping the sheep inline.
Stormy,
Please realize that nothing we say here should be taken personally by you or any of the dev team. After reviewing everything you have listed above, I give and and the team credit.
You have all spent alot of time and energy trying to get things to where they are. For that we are all thankful. But I think you have glossed over the fact the at the end of the day, there are alot of us that feel that Cryptic has not acted in good faith or given us what we feel is the value that we deserved for the monies that we have spent.
To explain, I don't think you can argue that the game was not complete at launch, lacked serious content and had more non-canon material than canon. Fixing bugs, adding polish, fleshing out content and making the game playable, while admirable, was expected, not something to be credited for.
I understand the point of the C-Store. I don't particularly like it, but I knew it was going to be there going in. I have even made several purchases, but before the Galaxy X purchase, I felt that they were all transactions that were not neccessary, but just fluff. I think where most people feel betrayed, as I do, is that for every bug fix, there is content added to the C-Store. For every new piece of content, another C-Store update. While this is all fine and good, it does start to drag a bit. Add to that the fact that the whole point of taking a poll for what we would like to see in the way of ships never included the fact that they would be monitized. Now knowing what the polling system is for, I will no longer use it. As a former player of table-top rpg player, I feel like I'm having to buy every book that I'm going to need to play the game effectively as a seperate purchase. That is not how any MMO that I have ever played works. While Everquest 2 now has the "Station Store" up as an attempt to generate supplemental revenue, they have tried to make sure that the game is playable without that content.
While you nor anyone else may want to admit it or acknowledge it, trying to classify the Nebula and Excelsior Class ships as premium content just does not fly. I have 5 different MMO's that I pay a monthly sub for as well as buy the yearly expansion for without uttering a foul word as I feel I am getting value for my money. I dilligently do so as the development teams give me almost monthly content updates, so I support them when the yearly pilgrimage rolls around.
STO is barely 5 months out of the gate and the most anticipated and desired content is being monitized while still not having fixed the base game itself yet. If this were 18 months from now, this might leave a different taste in our mouths, but it's not. Don't take this personally, but right now this content is stuff that we feel we are owed for the monies that we have spent. As of yet, the value scale has not swung in the consumers direction.
Again, please don't take this personally, just as the honest view from here. I really do feel for you in that you have to deal with us as I do know where the decisions are made. But please let them know that the money grab for my wallet is over.
There's only one BO that comes close to the Borg BO from the C-Store and that's the one you get at Rear Admiral by completing the 3 STFs and that one doesn't have efficient, I'm not talking JUST efficient but that trait plus the other innate borg traits...my Borg Boff has never been on the ship during an away mission....
this here.. this is how I kind of feel.
My least favorite part about the C-store is certain bridge packs. If the bridge packs on the C-store were generic I wouldn't mind nearly as much, but you have canon ships like the Prometheus already in-game with the canon bridge for some reason on the C-store. Especially now that interiors are going to play a larger role it seems very odd to charge someone extra money for the "privilege" of using the correct bridge that comes with their ship and should be included in the base game anyway! Even if you decide to ignore the rest of my post, StormShade, please let me know exactly what your rationalization for how the bridge packs are being handled.[/QUOTE]
I have to stop you there for a reason. You are correct that they have told us it would be cosmetic and then put the Galaxy X in. They are 'attempting' to make up for it with ships for season 2...rather federation ships for season 2.
As for the borg BO...she doesn't do anything my blue and purple BO's can do already...in fact my primary engineer has a better skill distribution for away missions than her...so it is cosmetic.
As for the bridge packs being extra...I could see paying for them with points if they were famous bridges such as TOS Enterprise...NX Enterprise...or other famous ships, however that being said the stuff they sell on the klingon side for bridges suck. Try sitting your captain in the chair on one of those...a normal klink sits there either with his feet sunk into the deckplating, or he cannot sit in the chair without clipping issues. If they are going to sell us bridge options they need to make sure its a well-built bridge that I don't have to worry about my captain being too tall...I mean come on...
It doesn't help the impression that the game was rushed with a lack of content. It also adds to the whole notion that all the cool stuff is in the C-store. Gamers especially core gamers seem to really against the idea of being nickel and dimed to death.
Putting out awesome stuff in the C-store is a double edged sword. Yeah it makes people want it and generates real sales, but that also means a large portion of people will feel angry if it costs too much (*cough*$25) and feel like they are being taken advantage of.
The C-store should be for micro transactions, micro as in small. Keep the stuff cheap and you'll get way less flack and maybe even more sales.
This doesn't make sense. On the one hand, you acknowledge that the fact that the Galaxy-X has gameplay differences (without necessarily being imbalanced) is at odds with the original promises, then claim that its differences are 'really' just cosmetic. I strongly disagree. When the differences cross into actual game mechanics rather than cosmetics, it is always a situation of "pay for power", even when the power granted is a broader array of options to choose from rather than outright superiority.
And yes, I feel this applies to the C-store species going back to the Tellarites. If the powers are so meaningless, why not stick them into the Alien generation options, at least as something that can be unlocked in game for a tiny little "new game plus" bonus option on alts*?
The new ships are also not adding identical mechanics to the Galaxy-X, unless I missed the one that's getting an AoE beam overload that ignores Line-of-Sight?
As for the actual thread topic, if the Excelsior and Nebula are only skins then obviously they won't violate the principles outlined above that the game was sold to me under**. I would still consider it annoying and bordering on silly that these two major workhorses with many canon appearances, shown to be active contemporary to most of the other ship classes in-game, would be paid addons rather than as part of the IP core of the game. I won't be paying for them either way, since I've hoped for the Nebula to anchor a fourth line of Federation ships down the road in development and I refuse to support game mechanics being sold in the C-store without being unlockable in-game***.
*This idea is taken directly from Mass Effect.
**and part of why I now strongly regret taking the leap of faith to get a Lifetime after the profoundly mediocre but apparently improving beta.
***yes, I regret buying my Caitian, seeing that Cryptic has seen fit to keep on trucking past the line.
So why did you add it BEFORE Season 2 was live?
one reason would be the fact that they would make more money because people thought they were buying power, and that was the only fed ship with cloak in the game.
To me it never "seemed like" the poll suggested they would add the ships in game for free. I think anyone w/ an ounce of common sense would have seen the possibility that it was a marketing poll to find out what people would pay for. Blame yourself for jumping to conclusions or making assumptions over what the poll's intention was.
It was never stated that the ships would be free and they are obviously being added in game, just not for free.
Secondly, I myself have no issue w/ the ships going on the C-store. I never blamed those who bought the GX for wanting it or ranted against Cryptic for putting it up so I don't see how I am a hypocrite. I merely said that if you folks hell bent on blaming someone for this move want a target you should look at those who bought the GX for showing Cryptic that it was something people would go for. If the Ent J goes up I'll def buy it as I said, so go ahead and toss some blame of me if you want for letting Cryptic know that I would gladly avail myself of the service should a ship that I like be introduced.
As for my personal taste in ships, last time I checked I was living in a free country where I was entitled to my personal preference and opinions. I don't desire or require you to agree w/ me but seeing as to how the Ent J came 3rd on that poll w/ 1875 votes I'm clearly not alone in my appreciation for the design.
I'm glad however that my post was able to make you laugh, after all laughter is a wonderful thing.
Normally I don't usually go this route. But since you mentioned bug fixes, I just thought I'd offer some feedback.
In your list I bolded some of the features you've added. The reason I've bolded them is that they are and have been bugged since they were put into the game.
The fleet actions like Big Dig and DS9 have some bugs, such as times I've played both I've had mission objectives not complete because, for instance only 19 out of 20 glowing objects appeared on the map. Or one force field in DS9 would not turn off.
The Difficulty Slider created a problem with certain sets of NPCs. And this problem was acknowledged as a bug. And was under investigation. And still is a bug. And no fix for it.
I appreciate the new content. I appreciate all the work you folks do for the game.
But as new content gets prioritized, it seems some long standing bugs get continually shuffled to the back burner.
Just want to feedback that and hope that you know, some of those bugs stop being forgotten.
Uh...
Wow...
You and I obviously play different games as I have been on several advisory committee's and contribute recommendations to games that I play all the time, knowing that I will not get charged a fee for it. And I do it with 2 ounces of common sense and no need to resort to insulting someone because they do not share their opinion. As has been put forth by the devs and mods, feedback is appreciated, not insults. Please direct your snide comments to the mirror.
So you're telling me that he can directly insult me by calling me a crazy hypocrite but I can't make a general statement about the obvious lack in judgment used in not even considering the possibility that the poll might be used for marketing purposes?
If you were charged for voting then I guess we are playing 2 different games. I don't remember anyone charging me for participating in that poll so I'm not sure how you were charged a fee for participating in it and contributing w/ your vote.