as you all can see now they pulled ship interiors out of publish 2 something every fan in game really wanted with an excuse that they dont have sitting in a chair ready(prolly caused by clipping problems). From me this is just SPECULATION but i think the marketing ppl janked it out to figure out how they turn the interiors into SIMS3 online selling furniture and special rooms and sucn in the CSTORE (like iconic stuff lets say the the med bay from voyager , or the fish tank etc..... i hope i aint right but if this happens we gonna end up with adventure packs content we will have to pay to play etc on top of having monthly pay .
And on top of this i see cryptic asking for understanding on having a small dev team but yet they wanna try and run no less the 3 MMO GAMES .....
So the guys are way ahead in the schedule but they have to put their stuff in the C-store because..If they don't the powers that be will make the employees twiddle their thumbs instead of work?
I think lose their jobs is a more appropriate way to put it. If you haven't noticed game usage has declined sharply in the past few weeks. Even though the funding idea may seem like a made up way to justify the c-store, if you look at city of heros it has helped maintain the game over a far greater time than subs alone would do.
As for throwing cheap players a bone, I think the opposite should be in play. None of the items are required they are all vanity items, and thus are for people with the income to pay for them. It might seem like a money grab but think of it as more a donation with a gift in exchange, if you want this game to stick around you need to make atari and cryptic know that it is profitable to develop new content as subs alone may not deliver the estimated amount that might be required to keep it afloat (in the eyes of the CEOs) with new content.
I only have one cevat to this, the price in merits for respecs should be cheaper probably closer to 1/2 of what it is, it's still enough that it can't be done all the time with merits, yet it is a mechanic that players do need to use often to stay competitive, a lot of money can be dropped on respecs based on patches.
I have no problem supporting Cryptic thru C store, but they can put all the ships in the C store that they are making.Not fair to all the players that cant afford to buy them. I feel sorry for those players.
Subscriptions alone should be enough to keep the game afloat. If it's not, what does that say about the game?
Well subs fee are stuck way back when wow set the bar but the cost of paying salaries have gone up so basically we pay way to little for the work they do . So yes eaven thou i hate to say it the subs fee to mmo games is to low to run subs only mmo's .
Well subs fee are stuck way back when wow set the bar but the cost of paying salaries have gone up so basically we pay way to little for the work they do . So yes eaven thou i hate to say it the subs fee to mmo games is to low to run subs only mmo's .
Games before WoW set the price, WoW pushed it up a little. I'm sorry but if your business can't survive on your primary source of income then you're doing it wrong! Planning for additional income is nice, relying on it to break even / make a slight profit is not.
Well subs fee are stuck way back when wow set the bar but the cost of paying salaries have gone up so basically we pay way to little for the work they do . So yes eaven thou i hate to say it the subs fee to mmo games is to low to run subs only mmo's .
Everyone seems to have good points , on all sides and angles. It's too bad Cryptic isn't more forthcoming with information to quell the fires it has inadvertantly stoked.
Personally, I wouldn't mind paying more of a subscription fee if it meant nailing down and securing not only the content that I want, but at the quality/detail that I expect. It should not have come as a surprise to Cryptic and/or the powers that be that along with securing the STO bid comes immense expectations on the executions of and the quality of their work/product.
At the end of the day though, this is entertainment. It's a game that requires a subscription paid for by DISCRETIONARY MONEY. Some looneys may disagree, but one doesn't have to purchase an STO subscription along with paying their rent and buying their groceries. Someone in an earlier post mentioned the fact that many of these features are vanity items...and not necessary to play the game.
All that being said, it doesn't change the fact that the way things have come down still stinks; the inner game mechanics (in regards to ship and level tiers, limited instances, etc.) for this MMO as a whole were poorly conceived and designed. While I understand there was a time issue during early development, proper layout planning would have averted many of the problems that the game's subscribers view it as having.
Games before WoW set the price, WoW pushed it up a little. I'm sorry but if your business can't survive on your primary source of income then you're doing it wrong! Planning for additional income is nice, relying on it to break even / make a slight profit is not.
However, more and more people are getting computers and playing games every day; so while the cost of subscription stays the same, the potential to expand your player base grows every day (unless your marketing dept and development staff are completely useless.)
If the Excelsior and Nebula provide unique functionality like the Galaxy X or Retrofits they should be in the C-Store. If Cryptic puts more work into providing cool ships that do cool things they deserve payment, in my opinion.
They do deserve payment. I wholeheartedly agree with this statement...
Wait... They are getting paid, regularly, and from nearly every player. (Those of us who are no longer paying have already paid up front for the monetary equivalent of 16-20 months, so don't feel like we're getting a free ride until the game is at least 16 months old.)
But I'd like to convey this to Cryptic:
If you're going to be charging a premium for these content updates, you'd better get on the ball and stop baulking at how much fixing something will cost when the player base asks for it, especially if it needs to be fixed because it was done carelessly during its initial development. Many of us also don't want to hear how you may not have the staffing to do it; if, for example 2000 people bought a $25 ship, you should take some of that $50,000 and contract some of that extra work out.
It is quite evident that the C Store is not supporting the game in terms of content. If nothing else it seems that the team working in STO has gotten smaller and the updates get delayed more with each passing patch. In light of this I find the latest C Store heist to be completely unwarranted right after the Galaxy X and its overpriced value over other items and the game in general. The Excelsior and the Nebula should not be C Store items because they should be the "new" ships of season 2. Since refits do not really represent any new models in game, this should have been the late entry of the ships we should have had in game.
I have been against the idea of the C Store from day one and several months later I have been unfortunately right about it. Cryptic has crossed the line a long time ago and it feels like they are running rampart right now. Between people who are willing to rationalise and pay and those who ragequit on it, I see the community dwindle a little each time and Cryptic becoming more like father Atari.
The greatest problem for me is that the game has become so dull that people will only focus on the one variable left in game and that is the ships. I would have loved for the game to have fully concentrated and developed the genesis engine and randomness of the missions more but focus is being shifted constantly on so many directions that all seems to spiral for me. The game needs to find a driving force past pretty ships and quick fixes for the one true problem of STO. Would any of us be here even discussing this if the game was engaging enough to carry us through because of its story or hype?
I think its time after this update for Cryptic to take a step back and think their priorities in terms of development and vision. Is this game going to be C Store Online dressed as a Ferengi in a Starfleet uniform, or is it going to be an effort to become a true MMO that develops the Star Trek lore further? Will the game become a showcase for more paid designs or are there actual plans to give it substance?
I have faith in the weekly episode scheme but I am not really impressed on how canned and repetitive new missions like diplomacy are, following the already failed recipe of the exploration missions (no real variation). Are the funds from the C Store ever going to show their worth or we shoud only be grateful the game is still live because of it?
Whatever this way goes I find myself tired with MMOs in general. Most of the ones I try failed to captivate me the way I expected for a game in continous development. I see now that some single player games have proven their worth much more though community modding and gave me a lot more satisfaction than any MMO to date. So I see myself drifting back to that very soon where all these unnecessary dramas where at least based on actual practical issues and not marketing strategies.
That's kinda why the whole C-store thing feels shady to me. The only other MMO I can think of that has both an extensive in game store and subscriptions is DDO. In DDO you don't AHVe to pay the subscription but you can jsut buy the stuff as you go. If you pay teh subscription you get alot of the stuff opened up free and every month you get like 500 points.
Here it's basically pay pay pay.
At this point I wish STO would go to the Turbine model. Except it'd be a loss per-player from what they have now, since they're basically trying to run the Turbine model with $15 as the 'free' point.
as you all can see now they pulled ship interiors out of publish 2 something every fan in game really wanted with an excuse that they dont have sitting in a chair ready(prolly caused by clipping problems). From me this is just SPECULATION but i think the marketing ppl janked it out to figure out how they turn the interiors into SIMS3 online selling furniture and special rooms and sucn in the CSTORE (like iconic stuff lets say the the med bay from voyager , or the fish tank etc..... i hope i aint right but if this happens we gonna end up with adventure packs content we will have to pay to play etc on top of having monthly pay .
And on top of this i see cryptic asking for understanding on having a small dev team but yet they wanna try and run no less the 3 MMO GAMES .....
Yes im angry and yes i have a right to be ..
I hope you're wrong but at this point I would bet you're right. I would have loved to go around doing whatever to collect all sorts of stuff for the ship interior... but if they just sell all the TRIBBLE, well, that doesn't add anything to play towards and is just another cash grab.
In a game where "lack of things to play towards" is one of the recognized problems, no less...
If you can't afford to buy things in the C-Store maybe you should not being playing video games; maybe investing time into getting a better career?
If you can't say something constructive and worthwhile maybe you should just shut up. Allow me to spell it out to you "OmegaSurpeme", nice spelling on that btw, being able to afford it and being comfortable with having money leeched out of you for content that should realistically be in the game already are not the same thing.
To put it another way, the money is apparently so little to you that by your logic you'll happily pay for others to get things. No? Why not? It's only a little money, disposable income, you won't miss it. If you would perhaps you should not be playing video games and maybe investing your time in order to get a better career and higher paying job. Do you see the point now? You don't have to be condescending to get your point across either, it sure won't gain you any friends doing so!
I think this shows that cryptic currrently have the balance wrong with the use of the C-Store. The store is no longer for 'fluff' items, infact it is straying close to resembling a store from a F2P game. The simple fact is that if I were a new customer looking at STO today, I would not purchase it as a direct result of what I see on the store.
I think many people have no problem with purchasing 'fluff' and account based items from the store, I've purchased them myself. But by putting these ships along with the Galaxy X you are leaving many of your customers feeling that basically any good stuff will now be put straight on the C-Store rather than put ingame. I am much less likely to purchase anything from the store right now because it feels wrong, you are putting stuff on there that impacts on gameplay and that you know speaks to the hearts of Star Trek fans in an effort to improve sales.
What happened to the statement Cryptic made about making stuff available through gameplay means ? For me this is the biggest dissapointment, if these items were available through a protracted questline or from merit harvesting then I would have much less of a problem with them. This scenario is currently providing proof to my argument about allowing myself to play games with ingame item stores. I always argue that it affects future gameplay development as future decisions are no longer made by developers with the emphasis being on fun, instead future gameplay gets driven by the bean counters who want to maximise profits and often at the expense of gameplay or the game itself. It feels like STO is now being driven forward by the bean counters.
Again I want to stipulate that I have no problems with Cryptic putting 'fluff' on the store and would happily continue to purchase items to help fund the continued development of STO. But this current situation takes things too far, the store is throwing things out of balance and I will not be a part in encouraging these bean counters. When the devs let us know that they've wrestled control of the game back, once the store use becomes sensible again, then I will start using it again, until then it may as well have a big 'Going out of business' sign on it for me, I will be avoiding it.
it´s easy to explain why we must pay for it extra.
For this two ships cryptic need the license and they must pay for it. How many times must cryptic explain this.
If someone is greedy then it´s CBS.
Even though you have to pay for it, you have to realize that this helps the game in the long-term. Purchasing from the c-store allows for more content to be added to the game. I enjoy buying from the c-store, I look forward to it, and it's a situation where I can support the authors directly.
I share this mindset as well. However, as these are ships we have to pay for, I would be much happier if these ships were offered with customizable configurations, even if these features weren't available until far down the road. If I knew it was coming, I would be much more complacent. I personally dislike paying extra for less features.
When you talk about how Cryptic should be making a profit or breaking even on sub numbers alone, keep in mind that they're probably still recovering initial development costs for the game. I highly doubt that even with optimistic subscription numbers they have already been able to recover the million(s) of dollars invested during the development cycle.
Ironically, I imagine that of all the things they add to the C-Store canon ships like the Excelsior and Nebula need to be there the most because CBS probably charges a licensing fee per ship - since they see each piece of their IP as valuable, especially in the context of fanboy gamers and microtransactions.
That said, I think that since the C-Store is here to stay STO should just move to the DDO/LOTRO model and be done with it. Expand the player base and make no bones about the fact that your bread and butter is microtransactions.
I agree that the Excelsior and Nebula or items in general should not be limited to a C-Store purchase. I also think c-store items should be limited to things players want, but do not need to play the game unless it is a major content upgrade similar to an expansion.
Offering an in game point system for earning c-store items is simply rewarding subscriber loyalty in a way. They must pay/play every month to be able to earn the points for the items. However, at the expense of shooting myself in the foot lifetime subscribers have already prepaid for around 16+/- months of the game. How much of a profit can they earn from us if most of us use the option to earn everything for free?
The problem everyone is having here is that the model being pushed by Cryptic has gone much furtehr than originally intended and now the customer base is voicing it's displeasure and pushing back. I for one am sad that this continues to be an issue. I spend a lot of money monthly on the range of games that I play and feel that the money I've spent so far ha been for the "Star" and that I now have to pay a seperate, ongoing update fee if I want the "Trek".
I realize the purpose that the store serves and I think at it's core that it's a good idea. It is however bordering on a level where I will have to cut my losses and spend my money in other avenues.
It seams to come down to
1- Pay for the fluff you dont really need via C-store
2- Pay 29.99 to 49.99 every 6 mounths and get the fluff for free when you buy all the new content we are currenly getting free like in other mmo's
It seams to come down to
1- Pay for the fluff you dont really need via C-store
2- Pay 29.99 to 49.99 every 6 mounths and get the fluff for free when you buy all the new content we are currenly getting free like in other mmo's
hmmmm....
Uh, very poor analagy. I've been playing EQ2 for 6 years and spend $29.99 a YEAR for updates and expansions. Not a problem there. Don't try to fanboi me, I allready are one!
At this point I wish STO would go to the Turbine model. Except it'd be a loss per-player from what they have now, since they're basically trying to run the Turbine model with $15 as the 'free' point. (...) In a game where "lack of things to play towards" is one of the recognized problems, no less...
(Sorry, I had a Don LaFontaine moment there when you said 'In a game....' )
I'm in agreement with this. I really do like that they're releasing badly-needed content, and haven't made a peep about selling expansions yet. I also appreciate that the 'bean counters' that dstahl mentioned want to sell things in the C-Store, and that putting things into the C-Store allows more C-Store things to be developed.*
But it's just getting my goat that more and more stuff is being put up in the C-Store without being available as an unlock for achievements or missions or episodes or whatever. Good grief, what happened to unlocking things in the game? This is the company that came up with poking 100 eyeballs to get the evil-awesome-looking Rularuu's weapons in COH. To defeat 100 of a very specific Fambly boss type in COV to get a Tommy gun. And these are just for costume pieces! There are combinations of accolades that you go after to get some in-game powers. All this is stuff that Cryptic has done before. Why aren't they doing it now?
*Broken Record Mode* Making in-game goals that require long-term engaging gameplay to achieve will keep people playing the game rather than just paying for it, and will keep them playing rather than contemplating quitting, or (in the case of LTS's) at the very least never purchasing anything on the C-Store and never advocating for the game. We ALL want STO to be a fun, enjoyable game that we can tell people about and continue to play and I'm not going to be all doom-and-gloomy and say that this will eventually kill the game... but it can't help it.
The "exchange rate" for Merits to C-Store Points as mentioned is a very good one. I would like to see it implemented. I would like to see more than that, on top of that, though. I have gone on many times about how to have ships and playable races be unlocked by episodes; it's a ready-made source of new content.
For new races, you get a mission perhaps from the Diplomatic Corps to go to a planet, and do something there, like convince the government to not side with the Klingons (or the Feds), or to fight off pirates, or to fix their water system, or stop an asteroid from smashing their planet. In thanks, they assign one of their top officers to you as a BOff, with Starfleet's blessing.
For new ships -- I'll just repeat the idea I threw out to bring the Lakota subtype into the game -- you get a mission to go to a Federation shipyard, fight off some raiders, board the shipyard to take out the attackers, then get informed that a massive fleet is arriving to destroy the shipyard, and you have to take command of the brand new kick-butt ship that the shipyard's been developing, and sally forth to protect it. As a reward, you get the ship, with Admiral Quinn's blessings.
I mean, these things almost write themselves! And if there is any gamer reading this who does not think that unlocking ships in the game through a reasonable eposide-completion mechanism wouldn't keep them playing for a bit longer, and have more fun doing it, then please speak up. 'Cause right now this is something I think a lot of players would love to see implemented.
But it seems like if the 'bean counters' had their way, everything would be on the C-Store.
When you talk about how Cryptic should be making a profit or breaking even on sub numbers alone, keep in mind that they're probably still recovering initial development costs for the game. I highly doubt that even with optimistic subscription numbers they have already been able to recover the million(s) of dollars invested during the development cycle.
Ironically, I imagine that of all the things they add to the C-Store canon ships like the Excelsior and Nebula need to be there the most because CBS probably charges a licensing fee per ship - since they see each piece of their IP as valuable, especially in the context of fanboy gamers and microtransactions.
That said, I think that since the C-Store is here to stay STO should just move to the DDO/LOTRO model and be done with it. Expand the player base and make no bones about the fact that your bread and butter is microtransactions.
remeber how fast they made this game its cause they allready have most of the engine ready from CO they had to add some new tech from what i understand but they allready had the engine .
So less development cost then anyone making a new game from scratch...
Even though you have to pay for it, you have to realize that this helps the game in the long-term. Purchasing from the c-store allows for more content to be added to the game. I enjoy buying from the c-store, I look forward to it, and it's a situation where I can support the authors directly.
What would REALLY help this game in the long-term is if they had enough content that was in-game, either right off the bat or unlockable, that would make people actually want to come and play this game. Instead, they're sticking stuff into their little store and tempting those of us who are here playing to buy these things. And unfortunately, people are doing it.
I'm really disappointed by this; there is this huge build-up for having more ships in game, and now we find out "psych, they'll be in game but only if you buy them."
I don't know how many more times Cryptari is going to keep slapping us in the face like this, but come on guys. Could you please just give us content in the game? If you actually had made a game worth playing you'd have more people coming to the game; instead you're having to give large incentives to your current player base to either drag people over here or to keep fueling your budget by paying for things that many other games would have had in the game for free (like costumes and races). This is getting unbelievable.
To follow up on my previous: I understand they need to continue to make some sort of profit. And I appreciate that they are still (desperately) trying to put in more content. I'm hip. The game released at least a year before it should have been released, and I'm glad that they're pushing to get new stuff into the game.
I also get that they have to made some sort of dividing line. If they put episodes up on the C-Store, there would be an immense shinolastorm. If they put the FDC in the C-Store, there would also be a shinolastorm. Higher level cap: shinolastorm. STFs: shinolastorm. New character and costume slots, new playable races, and new ships are pretty much the only thing they can put in the C-Store without causing even more grief. I get it.
But it's starting to wear a little thin. It's just a little frustrating when these are things that are ready-made rewards for unlocking content, and they're not being used for that. At least the 'series stars' ships aren't in the C-Store: the Intrepid-T5, Galaxy-T5, and Defiant-T5 can be unlocked in-game.
Sigh. I will probably cave and purchase the Excelsior and the Naughty Neb -- I've developed a fondness for the Excelsior/Lakota type. But... ugh! Doesn't keeping someone playing for months help the game? Or are there really so many LTS's that they are not making nearly as much for development costs as they would be comfortable with?
Thanks for posting your feedback here. I really appreciate that you took the time to post your feedback in a constructive manner and that you even went above and beyond and posted specifics on your proposal for a Cryptic Point/Starfleet Merit Hybrid model.
I'm going to move this to the C-Store feedback forum, so the individuals focusing on that at Cryptic will find it when they are looking for ideas on this topic.
Your feedback is appreciated!
well I'm glad you find my feedback constructive, but it I disagree about moving the thread. you say it is for the people who deal with the C-store, well chances are they will not look at this or respond . in a way the thread was sent to the forum grave yard. A place where it will be ignored by the people who deal with the C-store. ( I hate to say I'm starting to agree that the C-store people don't care about the customer, and my faith is declining. )
I hope I'm wrong, and maybe you could prove me wrong. Some feed back from someone who deals with the C-store, or Mr. Stahl himself would be great.
I want some Star Trek in this supposedly Star Trek game; these are ships that should have been ingame /At Launch/.
Canon content should not be withheld from your paying/paid subscribers.
Quit nickel & diming the Star Trek fans who get lured into this game on the flimsy pretense that they're playing a Star Trek Game.
Full stop.
I agree... these are canon ships, and they are not even their designs. It is one thing to put Cryptic's designs on the C-store, and I support that, but to put a canon design that was not even designed by them does not sit well with me. personally I think this is just the marketing / C-store department taking advantage of our love for those ships.
Comments
And on top of this i see cryptic asking for understanding on having a small dev team but yet they wanna try and run no less the 3 MMO GAMES .....
Yes im angry and yes i have a right to be ..
I think lose their jobs is a more appropriate way to put it. If you haven't noticed game usage has declined sharply in the past few weeks. Even though the funding idea may seem like a made up way to justify the c-store, if you look at city of heros it has helped maintain the game over a far greater time than subs alone would do.
As for throwing cheap players a bone, I think the opposite should be in play. None of the items are required they are all vanity items, and thus are for people with the income to pay for them. It might seem like a money grab but think of it as more a donation with a gift in exchange, if you want this game to stick around you need to make atari and cryptic know that it is profitable to develop new content as subs alone may not deliver the estimated amount that might be required to keep it afloat (in the eyes of the CEOs) with new content.
I only have one cevat to this, the price in merits for respecs should be cheaper probably closer to 1/2 of what it is, it's still enough that it can't be done all the time with merits, yet it is a mechanic that players do need to use often to stay competitive, a lot of money can be dropped on respecs based on patches.
Well subs fee are stuck way back when wow set the bar but the cost of paying salaries have gone up so basically we pay way to little for the work they do . So yes eaven thou i hate to say it the subs fee to mmo games is to low to run subs only mmo's .
Games before WoW set the price, WoW pushed it up a little. I'm sorry but if your business can't survive on your primary source of income then you're doing it wrong! Planning for additional income is nice, relying on it to break even / make a slight profit is not.
Everyone seems to have good points , on all sides and angles. It's too bad Cryptic isn't more forthcoming with information to quell the fires it has inadvertantly stoked.
Personally, I wouldn't mind paying more of a subscription fee if it meant nailing down and securing not only the content that I want, but at the quality/detail that I expect. It should not have come as a surprise to Cryptic and/or the powers that be that along with securing the STO bid comes immense expectations on the executions of and the quality of their work/product.
At the end of the day though, this is entertainment. It's a game that requires a subscription paid for by DISCRETIONARY MONEY. Some looneys may disagree, but one doesn't have to purchase an STO subscription along with paying their rent and buying their groceries. Someone in an earlier post mentioned the fact that many of these features are vanity items...and not necessary to play the game.
All that being said, it doesn't change the fact that the way things have come down still stinks; the inner game mechanics (in regards to ship and level tiers, limited instances, etc.) for this MMO as a whole were poorly conceived and designed. While I understand there was a time issue during early development, proper layout planning would have averted many of the problems that the game's subscribers view it as having.
However, more and more people are getting computers and playing games every day; so while the cost of subscription stays the same, the potential to expand your player base grows every day (unless your marketing dept and development staff are completely useless.)
They do deserve payment. I wholeheartedly agree with this statement...
Wait... They are getting paid, regularly, and from nearly every player. (Those of us who are no longer paying have already paid up front for the monetary equivalent of 16-20 months, so don't feel like we're getting a free ride until the game is at least 16 months old.)
But I'd like to convey this to Cryptic:
If you're going to be charging a premium for these content updates, you'd better get on the ball and stop baulking at how much fixing something will cost when the player base asks for it, especially if it needs to be fixed because it was done carelessly during its initial development. Many of us also don't want to hear how you may not have the staffing to do it; if, for example 2000 people bought a $25 ship, you should take some of that $50,000 and contract some of that extra work out.
I have been against the idea of the C Store from day one and several months later I have been unfortunately right about it. Cryptic has crossed the line a long time ago and it feels like they are running rampart right now. Between people who are willing to rationalise and pay and those who ragequit on it, I see the community dwindle a little each time and Cryptic becoming more like father Atari.
The greatest problem for me is that the game has become so dull that people will only focus on the one variable left in game and that is the ships. I would have loved for the game to have fully concentrated and developed the genesis engine and randomness of the missions more but focus is being shifted constantly on so many directions that all seems to spiral for me. The game needs to find a driving force past pretty ships and quick fixes for the one true problem of STO. Would any of us be here even discussing this if the game was engaging enough to carry us through because of its story or hype?
I think its time after this update for Cryptic to take a step back and think their priorities in terms of development and vision. Is this game going to be C Store Online dressed as a Ferengi in a Starfleet uniform, or is it going to be an effort to become a true MMO that develops the Star Trek lore further? Will the game become a showcase for more paid designs or are there actual plans to give it substance?
I have faith in the weekly episode scheme but I am not really impressed on how canned and repetitive new missions like diplomacy are, following the already failed recipe of the exploration missions (no real variation). Are the funds from the C Store ever going to show their worth or we shoud only be grateful the game is still live because of it?
Whatever this way goes I find myself tired with MMOs in general. Most of the ones I try failed to captivate me the way I expected for a game in continous development. I see now that some single player games have proven their worth much more though community modding and gave me a lot more satisfaction than any MMO to date. So I see myself drifting back to that very soon where all these unnecessary dramas where at least based on actual practical issues and not marketing strategies.
OMG here have a plate of food , but waiter where is the food no the food is optional you have to pay extra for that ...
WELCOME TO THE CSTORE...
I see it more like leasing a car, and paying for satellite radio on the side.
At this point I wish STO would go to the Turbine model. Except it'd be a loss per-player from what they have now, since they're basically trying to run the Turbine model with $15 as the 'free' point.
I hope you're wrong but at this point I would bet you're right. I would have loved to go around doing whatever to collect all sorts of stuff for the ship interior... but if they just sell all the TRIBBLE, well, that doesn't add anything to play towards and is just another cash grab.
In a game where "lack of things to play towards" is one of the recognized problems, no less...
If you can't say something constructive and worthwhile maybe you should just shut up. Allow me to spell it out to you "OmegaSurpeme", nice spelling on that btw, being able to afford it and being comfortable with having money leeched out of you for content that should realistically be in the game already are not the same thing.
To put it another way, the money is apparently so little to you that by your logic you'll happily pay for others to get things. No? Why not? It's only a little money, disposable income, you won't miss it. If you would perhaps you should not be playing video games and maybe investing your time in order to get a better career and higher paying job. Do you see the point now? You don't have to be condescending to get your point across either, it sure won't gain you any friends doing so!
I think many people have no problem with purchasing 'fluff' and account based items from the store, I've purchased them myself. But by putting these ships along with the Galaxy X you are leaving many of your customers feeling that basically any good stuff will now be put straight on the C-Store rather than put ingame. I am much less likely to purchase anything from the store right now because it feels wrong, you are putting stuff on there that impacts on gameplay and that you know speaks to the hearts of Star Trek fans in an effort to improve sales.
What happened to the statement Cryptic made about making stuff available through gameplay means ? For me this is the biggest dissapointment, if these items were available through a protracted questline or from merit harvesting then I would have much less of a problem with them. This scenario is currently providing proof to my argument about allowing myself to play games with ingame item stores. I always argue that it affects future gameplay development as future decisions are no longer made by developers with the emphasis being on fun, instead future gameplay gets driven by the bean counters who want to maximise profits and often at the expense of gameplay or the game itself. It feels like STO is now being driven forward by the bean counters.
Again I want to stipulate that I have no problems with Cryptic putting 'fluff' on the store and would happily continue to purchase items to help fund the continued development of STO. But this current situation takes things too far, the store is throwing things out of balance and I will not be a part in encouraging these bean counters. When the devs let us know that they've wrestled control of the game back, once the store use becomes sensible again, then I will start using it again, until then it may as well have a big 'Going out of business' sign on it for me, I will be avoiding it.
For this two ships cryptic need the license and they must pay for it. How many times must cryptic explain this.
If someone is greedy then it´s CBS.
I share this mindset as well. However, as these are ships we have to pay for, I would be much happier if these ships were offered with customizable configurations, even if these features weren't available until far down the road. If I knew it was coming, I would be much more complacent. I personally dislike paying extra for less features.
Ironically, I imagine that of all the things they add to the C-Store canon ships like the Excelsior and Nebula need to be there the most because CBS probably charges a licensing fee per ship - since they see each piece of their IP as valuable, especially in the context of fanboy gamers and microtransactions.
That said, I think that since the C-Store is here to stay STO should just move to the DDO/LOTRO model and be done with it. Expand the player base and make no bones about the fact that your bread and butter is microtransactions.
Offering an in game point system for earning c-store items is simply rewarding subscriber loyalty in a way. They must pay/play every month to be able to earn the points for the items. However, at the expense of shooting myself in the foot lifetime subscribers have already prepaid for around 16+/- months of the game. How much of a profit can they earn from us if most of us use the option to earn everything for free?
I realize the purpose that the store serves and I think at it's core that it's a good idea. It is however bordering on a level where I will have to cut my losses and spend my money in other avenues.
1- Pay for the fluff you dont really need via C-store
2- Pay 29.99 to 49.99 every 6 mounths and get the fluff for free when you buy all the new content we are currenly getting free like in other mmo's
hmmmm....
Uh, very poor analagy. I've been playing EQ2 for 6 years and spend $29.99 a YEAR for updates and expansions. Not a problem there. Don't try to fanboi me, I allready are one!
(Sorry, I had a Don LaFontaine moment there when you said 'In a game....'
I'm in agreement with this. I really do like that they're releasing badly-needed content, and haven't made a peep about selling expansions yet. I also appreciate that the 'bean counters' that dstahl mentioned want to sell things in the C-Store, and that putting things into the C-Store allows more C-Store things to be developed.*
But it's just getting my goat that more and more stuff is being put up in the C-Store without being available as an unlock for achievements or missions or episodes or whatever. Good grief, what happened to unlocking things in the game? This is the company that came up with poking 100 eyeballs to get the evil-awesome-looking Rularuu's weapons in COH. To defeat 100 of a very specific Fambly boss type in COV to get a Tommy gun. And these are just for costume pieces! There are combinations of accolades that you go after to get some in-game powers. All this is stuff that Cryptic has done before. Why aren't they doing it now?
*Broken Record Mode* Making in-game goals that require long-term engaging gameplay to achieve will keep people playing the game rather than just paying for it, and will keep them playing rather than contemplating quitting, or (in the case of LTS's) at the very least never purchasing anything on the C-Store and never advocating for the game. We ALL want STO to be a fun, enjoyable game that we can tell people about and continue to play and I'm not going to be all doom-and-gloomy and say that this will eventually kill the game... but it can't help it.
The "exchange rate" for Merits to C-Store Points as mentioned is a very good one. I would like to see it implemented. I would like to see more than that, on top of that, though. I have gone on many times about how to have ships and playable races be unlocked by episodes; it's a ready-made source of new content.
For new races, you get a mission perhaps from the Diplomatic Corps to go to a planet, and do something there, like convince the government to not side with the Klingons (or the Feds), or to fight off pirates, or to fix their water system, or stop an asteroid from smashing their planet. In thanks, they assign one of their top officers to you as a BOff, with Starfleet's blessing.
For new ships -- I'll just repeat the idea I threw out to bring the Lakota subtype into the game -- you get a mission to go to a Federation shipyard, fight off some raiders, board the shipyard to take out the attackers, then get informed that a massive fleet is arriving to destroy the shipyard, and you have to take command of the brand new kick-butt ship that the shipyard's been developing, and sally forth to protect it. As a reward, you get the ship, with Admiral Quinn's blessings.
I mean, these things almost write themselves! And if there is any gamer reading this who does not think that unlocking ships in the game through a reasonable eposide-completion mechanism wouldn't keep them playing for a bit longer, and have more fun doing it, then please speak up. 'Cause right now this is something I think a lot of players would love to see implemented.
But it seems like if the 'bean counters' had their way, everything would be on the C-Store.
* - Isn't... isn't that kind of circular, though?
remeber how fast they made this game its cause they allready have most of the engine ready from CO they had to add some new tech from what i understand but they allready had the engine .
So less development cost then anyone making a new game from scratch...
I'm really disappointed by this; there is this huge build-up for having more ships in game, and now we find out "psych, they'll be in game but only if you buy them."
I don't know how many more times Cryptari is going to keep slapping us in the face like this, but come on guys. Could you please just give us content in the game? If you actually had made a game worth playing you'd have more people coming to the game; instead you're having to give large incentives to your current player base to either drag people over here or to keep fueling your budget by paying for things that many other games would have had in the game for free (like costumes and races). This is getting unbelievable.
Type: Explorer
Accommodation: 750 officers and crew; 130 visiting personnel; 9,800 personal evacuation limit
Armament: Eight type-10 phaser emitters; two photon torpedo launchers
would be great if this ship is really cannon
Canon content should not be withheld from your paying/paid subscribers.
Quit nickel & diming the Star Trek fans who get lured into this game on the flimsy pretense that they're playing a Star Trek Game.
Full stop.
I also get that they have to made some sort of dividing line. If they put episodes up on the C-Store, there would be an immense shinolastorm. If they put the FDC in the C-Store, there would also be a shinolastorm. Higher level cap: shinolastorm. STFs: shinolastorm. New character and costume slots, new playable races, and new ships are pretty much the only thing they can put in the C-Store without causing even more grief. I get it.
But it's starting to wear a little thin. It's just a little frustrating when these are things that are ready-made rewards for unlocking content, and they're not being used for that. At least the 'series stars' ships aren't in the C-Store: the Intrepid-T5, Galaxy-T5, and Defiant-T5 can be unlocked in-game.
Sigh. I will probably cave and purchase the Excelsior and the Naughty Neb -- I've developed a fondness for the Excelsior/Lakota type. But... ugh! Doesn't keeping someone playing for months help the game? Or are there really so many LTS's that they are not making nearly as much for development costs as they would be comfortable with?
well I'm glad you find my feedback constructive, but it I disagree about moving the thread. you say it is for the people who deal with the C-store, well chances are they will not look at this or respond . in a way the thread was sent to the forum grave yard. A place where it will be ignored by the people who deal with the C-store. ( I hate to say I'm starting to agree that the C-store people don't care about the customer, and my faith is declining. )
I hope I'm wrong, and maybe you could prove me wrong. Some feed back from someone who deals with the C-store, or Mr. Stahl himself would be great.
I agree... these are canon ships, and they are not even their designs. It is one thing to put Cryptic's designs on the C-store, and I support that, but to put a canon design that was not even designed by them does not sit well with me. personally I think this is just the marketing / C-store department taking advantage of our love for those ships.