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Excelsior and Nebula is comming to C-store: Mr. Stahl something doesn't seem right.

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I just have to know...

    Is Rick Berman one of the big wigs at Atari now? :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    As of this morning, before the C-Store updates:

    Fed

    $15 monthly sub.
    $96 in unlockables, non-recurring.

    ...wow.

    So we're already up to two chock-full expansion packs of price in the C-store. Yeah, real economical, paying piecemeal...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I think a lot of you should take a step back and get some perspective - many of these comments aren't even very constructive as much as they are uneducated, indigent tirades. Act like productive members of society, assume your responsibilities as adults, and understand corporations are ran for one purpose, and one purpose only - profit. You'll save yourself a lot of extra stress if you realize a few things: first, there's nothing sinister about Cryptic's motives - these guys are doing their jobs and doing it rather well considering that despite all the limitations the positive aspects of the game far exceed the negatives; second, there are too many people complaining about too many different things (i.e., how, what, and when things should be added or not added to the game) that Cryptic will NEVER be able to truly make this game the way any one individual (yes, I mean you) feels it should be; and third, if you fundamentally feel, and I mean to the core, that Cryptic is ruining the game and the Star Trek brand, then simply leave the game. Don't create a lot of drama about it, just move along peacefully and find something more productive to do with your money and free time.

    QFT
    Powerhelm wrote: »
    Three words totally disprove your point:

    I never see people running their Borg BOff LOOKING Borg, they always have it barely borgy if at all. They got it because it's a badass engineer BOFF that you can have at level 1 immediately giving you an advantage over other people because when others are either buying BOffs or working on their 3rd or 4th mission to get a BOFF reward you already have one of each...

    Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I keep my Borg BOff in the Borg Outfit on purpose, in addition to not really using her as much on the ground side. Some people just want a Borg BO because it looks cool and not because there is a need to be "uber" above other players. Some players have different play style which you must acknowledge. Not everyone is competing against others constantly.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    ...wow.

    So we're already up to two chock-full expansion packs of price in the C-store. Yeah, real economical, paying piecemeal...

    Yep. When you add up all the unlocks, factor in universals, there's $109 worth of unlocks if you play both Klingon and Fed on a single account.

    Also, just updated my spreadsheet to include services, plus the new ones added today: $29.75 if you use each one once and only take two character slots. $34.13 is the real cost if you include four character slots instead of two.

    Let's also consider that you can't buy C-Points individually, so it's actually going to set you back $112.50 to purchase the 9000 points' worth of C-Points packs. With the "services," up to $37.50. For both, assuming you only use each service once and you get the smaller number of character slots: $143.75
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    ...wow.

    So we're already up to two chock-full expansion packs of price in the C-store. Yeah, real economical, paying piecemeal...

    Good for Cryptic! That means this game will continue and development will continue and there will be always new stuff to do and explore. All of which the players benefit from. Way better than a stagnate game that gets not updates because of a "strict" sub model.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Yep. When you add up all the unlocks, factor in universals, there's $109 worth of unlocks if you play both Klingon and Fed on a single account.

    Also, just updated my spreadsheet to include services, plus the new ones added today: $29.75 if you use each one once and only take two character slots. $34.13 is the real cost if you include four character slots instead of two.

    Let's also consider that you can't buy C-Points individually, so it's actually going to set you back $112.50 to purchase the 9000 points' worth of C-Points packs. With the "services," up to $37.50. For both, assuming you only use each service once and you get the smaller number of character slots: $143.75

    not really suprised....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Mirnea wrote:
    Good for Cryptic! That means this game will continue and development will continue and there will be always new stuff to do and explore. All of which the players benefit from. Way better than a stagnate game that gets not updates because of a "strict" sub model.

    With the rate the C-Store purchases are racking up, I'm getting to the point where I'd rather see a rise in the base monthly sub and get more non-mission content included in the price. It's also starting to get mentioned more that the $15 rate is pretty implausible. Perhaps if they raised the sub to $25, they wouldn't quite need to throw everything outside of the "Season Updates" into the C-Store.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Mirnea wrote:
    Good for Cryptic! That means this game will continue and development will continue and there will be always new stuff to do and explore. All of which the players benefit from. Way better than a stagnate game that gets not updates because of a "strict" sub model.

    So what do you play when you run out of people who pay subs, then people who will donate to the C-Store? I hope they put your LTS payments into an escrow account...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    MarkStone wrote: »
    So what do you play when you run out of people who pay subs, then people who will donate to the C-Store? I hope they put your LTS payments into an escrow account...

    that is a good point, the game can not survive on lifetimes, and C-stores sales alone.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Mirnea wrote:
    Good for Cryptic! That means this game will continue and development will continue and there will be always new stuff to do and explore. All of which the players benefit from. Way better than a stagnate game that gets not updates because of a "strict" sub model.

    The continual creep past the 'cosmetic' line and continued snowballing of more and more C-store additions than gameplay improvements makes me skeptical that the extra income is going towards anything other than pumping more things into the C-store. At a very poor relative value to the consumer.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    The continual creep past the 'cosmetic' line and continued snowballing of more and more C-store additions than gameplay improvements makes me skeptical that the extra income is going towards anything other than pumping more things into the C-store. At a very poor relative value to the consumer.

    some links that ppl might find intresting http://www.mmogamer.com/02/25/2008/future-of-mmos-roundtable-at-gdc08-recap look what jack says about microtransactions and compare to what we have today..

    And here is the Pr document from infogrames describing the cryptic deal

    http://corporate.atari.com/event/120909_Cryptic_PR_final_GB_def.pdf
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I don't mind if I buy from the C- store something I like,...
    But I'm getting a little tired of all the fed ships pre- fitted out console types.
    Come on oh you have a cruiser 4 slot engineering, 2 or 3 slot engineering, 2 slot science, 2 slot tactical.....
    It should be open slots for crew abilities so if you want a sov. more of a science ship, or tactical or engineering.
    It should be our choice.....
    As well consoles slots should be open as well.. Have it as a teir 1,2,3,4, 5 ship have X number of total console slots per teir and you put in what you want more engineering posts, science,, tactical what every you want.
    at lease it make the game a little more different. instead of a sov comes up well we know right there what the general build will be.. no surprise...
    all the builds are getting about the same heavy on dps, or debuffs and holds, or tanks....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Maybe I have just missed it somewhere, but has anybody noticed they keep saying equivalent ships will be available in game, but yet have not bothered to say WHAT ships will be available?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    metl wrote: »
    Maybe I have just missed it somewhere, but has anybody noticed they keep saying equivalent ships will be available in game, but yet have not bothered to say WHAT ships will be available?

    It's the new ones coming to Tribble.

    Which are not mechanically equivalent. Nothing else in game has an AoE Beam Overload that ignores line-of-sight.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    It's the new ones coming to Tribble.

    Which are not mechanically equivalent. Nothing else in game has an AoE Beam Overload that ignores line-of-sight.

    While I appreciate the effort, I think you missed the mark. I was asking what will be coming, as I have yet to see any information on them. I know they will hit tribble first.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    metl wrote: »
    While I appreciate the effort, I think you missed the mark. I was asking what will be coming, as I have yet to see any information on them. I know they will hit tribble first.

    a galaxy, Intrepid, and defiant classes.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    metl wrote: »
    Maybe I have just missed it somewhere, but has anybody noticed they keep saying equivalent ships will be available in game, but yet have not bothered to say WHAT ships will be available?

    Defiant w/cloak
    Galaxy w/saucer seperation
    Interpid w/alabative armor
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    metl wrote: »
    While I appreciate the effort, I think you missed the mark. I was asking what will be coming, as I have yet to see any information on them. I know they will hit tribble first.
    DES_SNIPER wrote: »
    Defiant w/cloak
    Galaxy w/saucer seperation
    Interpid w/alabative armor

    /\What DES said, sorry.

    They also had two on-specailty Commander BO slots but that got changed to a third on-specialty Ensign when people went :eek: I think they also took them up to T5 weapon stats though so now I'm not sure where the drawback for the special ability actually comes in.

    But, again, the new ships do not make the Galaxy-X's mechanical differences non-unique.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    tarjan wrote: »
    some links that ppl might find intresting http://www.mmogamer.com/02/25/2008/future-of-mmos-roundtable-at-gdc08-recap look what jack says about microtransactions and compare to what we have today..

    And here is the Pr document from infogrames describing the cryptic deal

    http://corporate.atari.com/event/120909_Cryptic_PR_final_GB_def.pdf

    I really love this:
    Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert: Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.

    Really Jack? Really? MTs make you want to die? Then why is it that the C-Store has become the central focus of STO? Why is it everything except the bones of STO is in that godforsaken C-Store?

    I'd really like to hear an answer, directly from Jack as to what changed between GDC 08 and now, to make Cryptic so boldly embrace the C-Store and make it the sole focus of their game, rather than providing a good game and maintaining it with subscriptions like so many others do.

    I'm patient. I'll wait. :cool:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Nice if you play Klingon, I don't, but still a welcome addition to expand the game.


    It would be time we got something. The K'Tanco is a what...T3 or T4 cruiser is it not? I cannot honestly remember since I have repressed the memories of having to grind away to level my klingon. Out of that list of 3 klingon additions...which has been added lately for BG5 klingons? Any ships?...no...any klingon NOT alien costume options?...Fur sleeves, and finally a bug fix for what should have been corrected at launch...clipping with sashes (et. al.) Klingon missions?....well...release the rest for testing so we can praise you for your work.

    It seems people get pretty defensive about a product they put out that still has numerous bugs to be fixed from launch, and they feel entitled to say all the content updates and fixes (although bug fixes are part of a FINISHED product and not a rough draft) are all for us.

    While I agree they deserve some credit for the degree of craftsmanship I must disagree with the way they have defended their work...It sounded like my neighbor's children fighting over the latest toy.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    So... messing with it more with sold items is a good thing?

    Why not? Its already messed up. Throwing more puppies to the alligator doesn't kill the alligator.

    Now if I really had any confirmation that they were planing to actually fix the tragedy that is Ground Combat, I would agree that its a bad thing. But right now, there's nothing much to lose by mucking it up more.

    At this point almost everyone sacrifices Ground Combat viability for the superior Space Combat.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    So, has anyone noticed a complete lack of input or feedback from any GM today at all on any of the threads that are against the C-Store push?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    MarkStone wrote: »
    So, has anyone noticed a complete lack of input or feedback from any GM today at all on any of the threads that are against the C-Store push?

    that's normal they hide when something like this happens. I don't think I've seen Dstahl in two days.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    MarkStone wrote: »
    So, has anyone noticed a complete lack of input or feedback from any GM today at all on any of the threads that are against the C-Store push?

    Oh there hasn't been a complete lack of feedback...

    It's such a cute little infraction. I will squeeze him and cuddle him and call him George.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Oh there hasn't been a complete lack of feedback...

    It's such a cute little infraction. I will squeeze him and cuddle him and call him George.

    I sent you a message
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Yeah, it's greedy....but I've also been paying 15 dollars for subs since......2003? (I want to say EQ was 10 bucks way back when, but that might be memory getting the better of me). I can't think of much that has stayed the same price for these last 7 years or so.

    So, I understand why companies are trying these new models (see LotRO for the ballsiest move yet, taking a profitable MMO and going F2P with cash shop), more profits are the name of the game.

    What I don't like is the price on the Galaxy X....if these new ships are that much, forget it. 5 or 6 dollars, sure....25 bucks, hell no. Again, I get the profit point, but then there is simply price gouging some fanbois.

    There should also be a way in-game to get cryptic points. SF merits or honor seem to be the way to go, it's just a question of the proper conversion.

    On my main, I have about 25k merits....turning that into 250 to 400 cryptic points (or using say half points half merits/honor) seems alright. I could buy some of the cheaper items (get a taste of the C-store) and hopefully would put in cash to buy more. Maybe making merits/ honor linked to your account would work.

    If you throw in the occasional C-store point gift using the accolade system, I'd be in heaven.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Zodi-emish wrote:
    that's normal they hide when something like this happens. I don't think I've seen Dstahl in two days.

    never mind I was wrong they are around. the sweep the problem under the rug has started.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    StormShade wrote:
    Hey gang,

    Thanks again for all of your feedback. It really is incredibly valued.

    I understand that some of you are upset that the Excelsior and Nebula Class vessels are headed to the C-Store. There’s a number of reasons for this, and I want to try and address them for you.

    Some people are upset because they feel these items shouldn’t go into the C-Store because they’re "Canon Ships".

    I can understand this view point, and I’ll make sure to pass it along. I also want to remind you however that we use the C-store to make things that you are requesting, which otherwise would not make it into the game. So, without the C-store, there would be no excelsior or Nebula in STO for some time.

    The most prevalent reason seems to be that some people feel as though they’re not getting enough bang for their subscription buck right now. It’s very true that your subscription fees do go towards the ongoing development of Star Trek Online. So, I thought I would remind you all of some of the things we’ve added since launch for free to all of our players.

    PvP
    “Shanty Town” PvP Map

    Uniform Options
    Off Duty Uniforms
    New stances and hairstyles at the tailor.

    Klingon
    The K’Tanco Battle Cruiser
    New Klingon Only Episodes(Coming Soon)
    New Klingon Carrier

    Federation
    War Games (Fed vs. Fed PvP)
    The Diplomatic Corps (Coming Soon)
    Defiant/Galaxy/Intrepid Refits

    Fleet Actions/Content
    The Big Dig
    DS9 Under Siege
    New Undine Missions and Fleet Action (Coming Soon)
    Weekly “Featured Episodes” (Coming Soon)

    Miscellaneous
    The Difficulty Slider
    The Injury System
    Accolades
    Squad Support
    Mini Games (Coming Soon)
    Level Cap Increase, 45-51 (Coming Soon)
    Veteran’s Rewards

    Not to mention numerous bug fixes, and other minor changes and “polish” we’ve made based on your feedback. We’re already hard at work planning Season 3 for you right now as well! Almost all of the things listed above have been things that you, our community, has asked us to make happen for you. I personally feel that the Dev Team is doing a great job of pushing out content that you all have been asking for, and at a bang up pace.

    However, I’m also seeing that you guys would like to see some more customization updates included in the next big update. It may not happen for Season 2, but I will make sure to pass that along to the Dev Team so they can keep that in mind as they’re planning Season 3 and beyond.

    Thanks,

    Stormshade

    90% of this stuff should have been in at launch
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Zodi-emish wrote:
    never mind I was wrong they are around. the sweep the problem under the rug has started.

    Yes it has, operation "sweep the the problems under the rug" has gone into full effect. But its good to see that massively has written a nice article about cryptic and there c-store, they cant sweep that under the rug. I wonder if cryptic is getting the hint right now......
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Pogmahone wrote:
    Yes it has, operation "sweep the the problems under the rug" has gone into full effect. But its good to see that massively has written a nice article about cryptic and there c-store, they cant sweep that under the rug. I wonder if cryptic is getting the hint right now......

    hmmm

    * thinks back at the past mistakes *

    nope
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