well I'm glad you find my feedback constructive, but it I disagree about moving the thread. you say it is for the people who deal with the C-store, well chances are they will not look at this or respond . in a way the thread was sent to the forum grave yard. A place where it will be ignored by the people who deal with the C-store. ( I hate to say I'm starting to agree that the C-store people don't care about the customer, and my faith is declining. )
Yeah, it just keeps looking worse and worse for them. But I get the impression that they feel if they cover their ears and shout "LALALALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU" when we have criticiscm and negative feedback, that we'll just roll over and accept it.
One or two items, I might be able to accept. Certianly some of the more unique stuff, such as the Galaxy X (Appeared in one episode) or the Mirror Universe Uniforms. (Again, appeared in one episode)
Canon ships, equipment, etc. DOES NOT BELONG IN THE C-STORE!!!!!
Let me repeat:
CANON STAR TREK SHIPS, UNIFORMS, ETC DO NOT BELONG IN THE C-STORE!!!!
The canon ships, uniforms and equipment should have been the core of this game. The nuts and bolts. Then, the fluff and the Cryptic developed stuff should have been in the C-Store.
For example: All canon ships would be in the game, however customization would only be achieved by purchasing the Cryptic variants from the C-Store, unlocking additional customization options, just like they did with Bridges.
But Cryptic doesn't want anyone questioning their Holy Grail. They say the funds are being used to fuel development. And yet, the in game story content, the Klingon side of things, and the overhaul of exploration is coming at about 1/4 of the pace that new C-Store stuff is coming out. I bet if they did a poll among the players asking what they feel should be speed up development wise, they would find that the players don't care as much about the C-Store, and would much rather that development time be focused on content, bug fixes, etc.
Basically this boils down to the players, paying for the development costs after the game has released. The game released in a state that it shouldn't have been released, Cryptic needs more money to bring it up to a level acceptable to the customers, and are dinging the customer's pocketbook to make it what it should have been.
It's not right. Not right at all.
And any negative feedback on their economic model, gets buried, so as to try and hide the problem.
And any negative feedback on their economic model, gets buried, so as to try and hide the problem.
As I said I want them to prove me wrong. get Dstahl in here to talk to us, and get the guy making decisions about the C-store in here to talk to us. tells us what's going on, and tell us what is planed. they started this fire, and it is their job to put it out, and trying to hide it is not going to stop it.
Is it just me, or has anyone noticed that those of us that are unhappy and vocalizing our discontent are the very people that have been Cryptic's biggest supporters and defenders?
Maybe THAT should be forwarded to the "Budget Department"...
Then there's those of us who aren't vocal, either because we just don't care, or we don't mind the way the C-Store is, because it could be much worse (PSN Home comes to mind, talk about nickel and dime-ing).
Sure some of the stuff should have been in the game at the begining. I'm not denying that, it's just a low priority for some people.
Is it just me, or has anyone noticed that those of us that are unhappy and vocalizing our discontent are the very people that have been Cryptic's biggest supporters and defenders?
Maybe THAT should be forwarded to the "Budget Department"...
I guarentee that it hasn't gone unnoticed by me.
I have seen over the past couple of days, several staunch supporters of STO/Cryptic begin to change their tune. This is not a good sign, and if Cryptic can't see that, then they are truly doomed.
I've stated in previous posts that this economic model can't sustain itself, and ultimately is not feasible. It is very possible Cryptic will see that too, very soon. The backlash has been mounting since the Exclusives and Galaxy X debacle, and with the Nebula/Excelsior, it's about to get a whole lot worse.
There is only so much people will pay out on a hobby before they begin to re-evaluate if their hobby is worth while, and if the enjoyment they get from their hobby can justify the expense.
Then there's those of us who aren't vocal, either because we just don't care, or we don't mind the way the C-Store is, because it could be much worse (PSN Home comes to mind, talk about nickel and dime-ing).
Sure some of the stuff should have been in the game at the begining. I'm not denying that, it's just a low priority for some people.
PSN Home is not even a remotely even comparison. In PSN Home all you do is walk / run around and do a few short games while chatting with other people. Things like pool, chess, draughts / checkers which you play against another person. Comparing that to STO where you ... well.. walk / run / fly your ship around and .... um.. well... do a few short games (of kill things, scan things, or kill and scan things) while chatting to other people. ....... I've lost my argument, I'll shush now.
In seriousness though PSN Home isn't meant to be an MMO and it doesn't have a monthly subscription fee. Those two points alone are enough to invalidate your comparison even though I know all about the charges for any type of real customisation and paying for branded items which is pretty insulting. Paying for a virtual product that helps advertise a product in real life...
At least one of the ships or their parts should be added to the game free of charge.
That is one of my thoughts on this too. The Excelsior, as the ship poll winner, should be free for everyone. The Nebula was popular and a far closer second than I thought it would be but ultimately it didn't win the poll and if that was pushed to the C-Store I'd see that as fair as it didn't win and would not otherwise be in the game.
PSN Home is not even a remotely even comparison. In PSN Home all you do is walk / run around and do a few short games while chatting with other people. Things like pool, chess, draughts / checkers which you play against another person. Comparing that to STO where you ... well.. walk / run / fly your ship around and .... um.. well... do a few short games (of kill things, scan things, or kill and scan things) while chatting to other people. ....... I've lost my argument, I'll shush now.
In seriousness though PSN Home isn't meant to be an MMO and it doesn't have a monthly subscription fee. Those two points alone are enough to invalidate your comparison even though I know all about the charges for any type of real customisation and paying for branded items which is pretty insulting. Paying for a virtual product that helps advertise a product in real life...
Paying $1 for a small picture frame, so your "house" can look "nicer". How about XBox Live? $30 for a $5 expansion, that only adds a couple of weapons and maybe a map? $5 picture and theme packs?
Maybe Sony should charge for Home, it may help improve PSN past the lagfest it is right now.
I'm sorry Im still new here I just started playing last week but from what Ive seen that when enough people post about something they want in the forums cryptic does their best to make it happen. But in order to do this they have to pay their staff to figure out what you want and how to put it in the game all of which takes time and money. and where do they get their money from monthly subscribers and the C-STORE. so if you see something in the c-store you dont like dont buy it. But remember when youre putting trophies in your ready room or looking at your warp core remember who paid for that.
I'm sorry Im still new here I just started playing last week but from what Ive seen that when enough people post about something they want in the forums cryptic does their best to make it happen. But in order to do this they have to pay their staff to figure out what you want and how to put it in the game all of which takes time and money. and where do they get their money from monthly subscribers and the C-STORE. so if you see something in the c-store you dont like dont buy it. But remember when youre putting trophies in your ready room or looking at your warp core remember who paid for that.
I know exactly how it was paid for friend, my sub fee, the same as in every other game I play. Please do not come in and try to patronize me, it's rather insulting.
I know exactly how it was paid for friend, my sub fee, the same as in every other game I play. Please do not come in and try to patronize me, it's rather insulting.
That probably also helped pay for server up keep, and pay cheques, and other bills acquired during the normal operation of a business.
That is one of my thoughts on this too. The Excelsior, as the ship poll winner, should be free for everyone. The Nebula was popular and a far closer second than I thought it would be but ultimately it didn't win the poll and if that was pushed to the C-Store I'd see that as fair as it didn't win and would not otherwise be in the game.
What irks me isn't the C-store, or even adding the two ships, what irks me is that since launch 6ish months ago, Cryptic has not added *anything* to the game in terms of ship parts/uniform parts, for free, aside from a few things like one badges or whatever.
Compared to Champions online, this is increadably poor.
The Nebula and the excelsior really ought to be added to the game, for free, just because of that, and after this Cryptic needs to do something like a 2-to-1 ratio of free things added to the game vs c-store stuff, even if the c-store stuff tends to be the better stuff. (for example, why not add a few alt nacelles to ships, or a different saucer to Research science ships? it's the little free things cryptic, that make people happy with microtransactions.)
What I find funny is that there are threads full of people basically screaming at the devs to spend more money on things like building a whole new model for the ablative hull ability. A task which has been explained to be extremely expensive due to all the work it requires to build the 30 models and program them in. However you get threads like this w/ people screaming don't add items that will likely be popular in the c-store.
How exactly do people propose they generate the funds to pay for the extra work that the players want them to do? I mean let's face it folks 15 a month per sub probably pays for the basic operations of the game but I doubt that it generates enough revenue to pay for all the extra goodies people want thrown in.
If you guys want to blame some one for these ships going to the C-store, blame the people who rushed to get their Galaxy X, they are the ones who proved to Cryptic that C-store + ships = $$. You can't blame cryptic for jumping on an opportunity to make a profit. I personally have not bought the Galaxy X and have no intention to buy the Nebula or the Excelsior either. I have never been a fan of any of those ships so I can't be bothered but I guarantee that if they put an ENT J up there I would grab mine the second it went live.
You can find it funny all you want. At the end of the day, Cryptic is trying to test a new business model that will ultimately not be successful. But let's do the math, $14.99 a month x 12 mos. plus periodic C-Store purchases made for resonably relesed items, or $0.00 a month and no C-Store purchases while playing a different game?
While I am unfamiliar with whatever liscensing arrangement Cryptic has with CBS, the normal "bills" are more than being handled by the subscriber base. If not, things need to be cut back. If that means cutting back on content, then maybe they are in the wrong business.
Many developers and publishers are making a lot of money by not trying to be greedy. It's all a matter of management. But there is a bean-counter somewhere at Cryptic (and this has been admitted to...) that has determined that EVERYTHING has to be monetized. When this happened to the Big 3 in the auto industry, the consumer base voted with their wallets. Sadly, I don't think the White House will authorize any TARP money for Atari to override consumer refusal after the cow has been milked dry.
As I said I want them to prove me wrong. get Dstahl in here to talk to us, and get the guy making decisions about the C-store in here to talk to us. tells us what's going on, and tell us what is planed. they started this fire, and it is their job to put it out, and trying to hide it is not going to stop it.
I think by Canon alone, using Starfleet Merit to acquire new ships makes much more sense. Make it a very significant amount of merit points to acquire, thus forcing the player to work really really hard (thus probably playing for a few months to earn the merit points, requiring a month or two of subsciption @ 15 USD per month).
This will give players who like to fast track, wallet-support, or a combination of the two the chance to pay real money to get it right away, conversely rewarding players who put their TIME and MONEY into the game to buy it without any additional spending (essentially already spending subscription dollars needed to get the merit points to buy the ship)
If you set up a model like this, you will be satisfying most people, and still generating revenue for Cryptics investment into creating the 2 ships.
What I find funny is that there are threads full of people basically screaming at the devs to spend more money on things like building a whole new model for the ablative hull ability. A task which has been explained to be extremely expensive due to all the work it requires to build the 30 models and program them in. However you get threads like this w/ people screaming don't add items that will likely be popular in the c-store.
......
If you guys want to blame some one for these ships going to the C-store, blame the people who rushed to get their Galaxy X, they are the ones who proved to Cryptic that C-store + ships = $$. You can't blame cryptic for jumping on an opportunity to make a profit. I personally have not bought the Galaxy X and have no intention to buy the Nebula or the Excelsior either. I have never been a fan of any of those ships so I can't be bothered but I guarantee that if they put an ENT J up there I would grab mine the second it went live.
I think you'll find that the 'screaming' is about how the ship poll has been turned into a tool to find out what will get them the most money as opposed to what it seemed like, which was to find out which ship most players wanted to see added to the game. Of course there was no mention of it being a C-Store item in the poll but as I and at least one other have said now it will be the last poll I participate in for that reason alone.
As for the last paragraph you wrote well that just made me laugh. You say blame the people who rushed to get their Galaxy X and then admit you'd buy the Enterprise J the second it went live. You're smart to not say you blame them so you can avoid being a hypocrit but it also shows you're crazy and should not be allowed near pointy things. The Enterprise J?! You're either on too little or too many meds.
Is it just me, or has anyone noticed that those of us that are unhappy and vocalizing our discontent are the very people that have been Cryptic's biggest supporters and defenders?
Maybe THAT should be forwarded to the "Budget Department"...
yes sir I was one of cryptic's biggest fans, and it kills me when the marketing department does stupid stuff to ruin the game. be it the sale gate, or this mess up now. each time my faith is chipping away.
I think you'll find that the 'screaming' is about how the ship poll has been turned into a tool to find out what will get them the most money as opposed to what it seemed like, which was to find out which ship most players wanted to see added to the game. Of course there was no mention of it being a C-Store item in the poll but as I and at least one other have said now it will be the last poll I participate in for that reason alone.
As for the last paragraph you wrote well that just made me laugh. You say blame the people who rushed to get their Galaxy X and then admit you'd buy the Enterprise J the second it went live. You're smart to not say you blame them so you can avoid being a hypocrit but it also shows you're crazy and should not be allowed near pointy things. The Enterprise J?! You're either on too little or too many meds.
Enterprise-J wouldn't make any sense. Starfleet still is working with the Ent-E, so if the Ent-J class was around while the Ent-E was still working, it would mean that when it finally came the time to comission the Ent-J they would have to use a REALLY old class of ship.
Thanks again for all of your feedback. It really is incredibly valued.
I understand that some of you are upset that the Excelsior and Nebula Class vessels are headed to the C-Store. Theres a number of reasons for this, and I want to try and address them for you.
Some people are upset because they feel these items shouldnt go into the C-Store because theyre "Canon Ships".
I can understand this view point, and Ill make sure to pass it along. I also want to remind you however that we use the C-store to make things that you are requesting, which otherwise would not make it into the game. So, without the C-store, there would be no excelsior or Nebula in STO for some time.
The most prevalent reason seems to be that some people feel as though theyre not getting enough bang for their subscription buck right now. Its very true that your subscription fees do go towards the ongoing development of Star Trek Online. So, I thought I would remind you all of some of the things weve added since launch for free to all of our players.
PvP
Shanty Town PvP Map
Uniform Options
Off Duty Uniforms
New stances and hairstyles at the tailor.
Klingon
The KTanco Battle Cruiser
New Klingon Only Episodes(Coming Soon)
New Klingon Carrier
Federation
War Games (Fed vs. Fed PvP)
The Diplomatic Corps (Coming Soon)
Defiant/Galaxy/Intrepid Refits
Fleet Actions/Content
The Big Dig
DS9 Under Siege
New Undine Missions and Fleet Action (Coming Soon)
Weekly Featured Episodes (Coming Soon)
Miscellaneous
The Difficulty Slider
The Injury System
Accolades
Squad Support
Mini Games (Coming Soon)
Level Cap Increase, 45-51 (Coming Soon)
Veterans Rewards
Not to mention numerous bug fixes, and other minor changes and polish weve made based on your feedback. Were already hard at work planning Season 3 for you right now as well! Almost all of the things listed above have been things that you, our community, has asked us to make happen for you. I personally feel that the Dev Team is doing a great job of pushing out content that you all have been asking for, and at a bang up pace.
However, Im also seeing that you guys would like to see some more customization updates included in the next big update. It may not happen for Season 2, but I will make sure to pass that along to the Dev Team so they can keep that in mind as theyre planning Season 3 and beyond.
So. We notice that you didn't put in Canon ships and thus said "Hey wait a minute. this is star Trek why can't we fly stuff we see in teh shows or wear the costumes." We thus demand you put it in. You place them in teh C-store. When we object you said you wouldn't make these Canon things available otherwise?
Why wouldn't you make canon items regardless if we were asking for them or not. For that matter why didn't it dawn on you to make these things to begin with?
Admittedly It does bug me to see weekly updates to the C-store. It creates the illusion that the C-store is all that is growing but you bring up valid points as to what has been added otherwise. At teh end of the day though, when it comes to alternative skins and, so help me, even some of these Alien races It don't care so much. when it comes to bridges we've never sene before I dont care so much. When it comes to items you would reasonably be expected to see in a game labeled 'Star Trek' That is where It crosses the line.
Some people are upset because they feel these items shouldnt go into the C-Store because theyre "Canon Ships".
I would actually have rather had all the 'canon' ships in the C-Store b/c it is an option to have the ships people want *even though they don't really belong in this time frame*. Meanwhile brand new/original Cryptic ships should be the standard ones that fill out this universe and come with the game updates.
Excelsior! You have been delivering, if anything trying to please too many.
However I'm sure all would be better if a 20 % - 40 % discount for lifers in the C-Store. This I feel is very reasonable. We have been backing STO and put our $$$ where our mouths are, because we are patient and believe that STO will be around as long as the Star Trek legacy to date. :cool:
Thanks again for all of your feedback. It really is incredibly valued.
I understand that some of you are upset that the Excelsior and Nebula Class vessels are headed to the C-Store. Theres a number of reasons for this, and I want to try and address them for you.
Some people are upset because they feel these items shouldnt go into the C-Store because theyre "Canon Ships".
I can understand this view point, and Ill make sure to pass it along. I also want to remind you however that we use the C-store to make things that you are requesting, which otherwise would not make it into the game. So, without the C-store, there would be no excelsior or Nebula in STO for some time.
The most prevalent reason seems to be that some people feel as though theyre not getting enough bang for their subscription buck right now. Its very true that your subscription fees do go towards the ongoing development of Star Trek Online. So, I thought I would remind you all of some of the things weve added since launch for free to all of our players.
PvP
Shanty Town PvP Map
Uniform Options
Off Duty Uniforms
New stances and hairstyles at the tailor.
Klingon
The KTanco Battle Cruiser
New Klingon Only Episodes(Coming Soon)
New Klingon Carrier
Federation
War Games (Fed vs. Fed PvP)
The Diplomatic Corps (Coming Soon)
Defiant/Galaxy/Intrepid Refits
Fleet Actions/Content
The Big Dig
DS9 Under Siege
New Undine Missions and Fleet Action (Coming Soon)
Weekly Featured Episodes (Coming Soon)
Miscellaneous
The Difficulty Slider
The Injury System
Accolades
Squad Support
Mini Games (Coming Soon)
Level Cap Increase, 45-51 (Coming Soon)
Veterans Rewards
Not to mention numerous bug fixes, and other minor changes and polish weve made based on your feedback. Were already hard at work planning Season 3 for you right now as well! Almost all of the things listed above have been things that you, our community, has asked us to make happen for you. I personally feel that the Dev Team is doing a great job of pushing out content that you all have been asking for, and at a bang up pace.
However, Im also seeing that you guys would like to see some more customization updates included in the next big update. It may not happen for Season 2, but I will make sure to pass that along to the Dev Team so they can keep that in mind as theyre planning Season 3 and beyond.
Thanks,
Stormshade
While that's all nice...I don't believe any klingon asked for a carrier, and a refit ship would be treatly appreciated. I don't mean to come across as being brash...however bug fixes are things that one would expect from a finished product...Speaking of bug fixes...it's nice to know you thought enough to change the klingon armour so the clipping of the sash and shoulder pices aren't as bad.;)
The most prevalent reason seems to be that some people feel as though theyre not getting enough bang for their subscription buck right now. Its very true that your subscription fees do go towards the ongoing development of Star Trek Online. So, I thought I would remind you all of some of the things weve added since launch for free to all of our players.
Stormshade, the problem with your list is that it's both true, but I imagine many people feel that things like squad support should have been in since before launch, but I digress.
In Champions Online, within 3 months there had been two event-based content patches, as well as one end-game dungeon. Blood moon added a number of perks, and a number of costume pieces, including a pvp map and another powerset.
In November, they released Nemcon, an end game dungeon. But it wasn't just a dungeon, also included were two costume sets and a neato cape.
In December, another costume set, and a mask/hat, plus the event on top of it.
The problem, as I see it, is not so much that you've not added stuff, but that you've not added enough, and the stuff you've added is... hit or miss. Take these klingon episodes; You're assuming I'm a klingon player; same with the ships you quote. Off-duty uniforms are another example-- why would anyone but RPs want off-duty clothes anyway? And why is it that none of them look remotely like they should be worn on risa? And the choses you've given us, in Off-duty clothing, is (at least for the females) extremely limiting, we have, what? 9? combinations we could make?
Compare Champions Online's c-store to STO's; the Champions one has 31 items that can be bought, including action figures and emblems, vs STO's 41 (including emotes) it may not sound like much of a difference, but CO has been out for nearly a year, and STO is only pulling 6 months.
Ultimately I don't care if you add the ships to the store, but I do know that STO has a serious image problem in regards to this c-store, one that Champions Online doesn't have. Cryptic needs to act fast and pointedly to change this image of a money grabbing corporation who's only milking STO.
I'd rather not see STO die because Cryptic drove it's player base away, and alienated people who might be interested in STO.
I think a lot of you should take a step back and get some perspective - many of these comments aren't even very constructive as much as they are uneducated, indigent tirades. Act like productive members of society, assume your responsibilities as adults, and understand corporations are ran for one purpose, and one purpose only - profit. You'll save yourself a lot of extra stress if you realize a few things: first, there's nothing sinister about Cryptic's motives - these guys are doing their jobs and doing it rather well considering that despite all the limitations the positive aspects of the game far exceed the negatives; second, there are too many people complaining about too many different things (i.e., how, what, and when things should be added or not added to the game) that Cryptic will NEVER be able to truly make this game the way any one individual (yes, I mean you) feels it should be; and third, if you fundamentally feel, and I mean to the core, that Cryptic is ruining the game and the Star Trek brand, then simply leave the game. Don't create a lot of drama about it, just move along peacefully and find something more productive to do with your money and free time.
Thanks again for all of your feedback. It really is incredibly valued.
I understand that some of you are upset that the Excelsior and Nebula Class vessels are headed to the C-Store. Theres a number of reasons for this, and I want to try and address them for you.
Some people are upset because they feel these items shouldnt go into the C-Store because theyre "Canon Ships".
I can understand this view point, and Ill make sure to pass it along. I also want to remind you however that we use the C-store to make things that you are requesting, which otherwise would not make it into the game. So, without the C-store, there would be no excelsior or Nebula in STO for some time.
The most prevalent reason seems to be that some people feel as though theyre not getting enough bang for their subscription buck right now. Its very true that your subscription fees do go towards the ongoing development of Star Trek Online. So, I thought I would remind you all of some of the things weve added since launch for free to all of our players.
PvP
Shanty Town PvP Map
Uniform Options
Off Duty Uniforms
New stances and hairstyles at the tailor.
Klingon
The KTanco Battle Cruiser
New Klingon Only Episodes(Coming Soon)
New Klingon Carrier
Federation
War Games (Fed vs. Fed PvP)
The Diplomatic Corps (Coming Soon)
Defiant/Galaxy/Intrepid Refits
Fleet Actions/Content
The Big Dig
DS9 Under Siege
New Undine Missions and Fleet Action (Coming Soon)
Weekly Featured Episodes (Coming Soon)
Miscellaneous
The Difficulty Slider
The Injury System
Accolades
Squad Support
Mini Games (Coming Soon)
Level Cap Increase, 45-51 (Coming Soon)
Veterans Rewards
Not to mention numerous bug fixes, and other minor changes and polish weve made based on your feedback. Were already hard at work planning Season 3 for you right now as well! Almost all of the things listed above have been things that you, our community, has asked us to make happen for you. I personally feel that the Dev Team is doing a great job of pushing out content that you all have been asking for, and at a bang up pace.
However, Im also seeing that you guys would like to see some more customization updates included in the next big update. It may not happen for Season 2, but I will make sure to pass that along to the Dev Team so they can keep that in mind as theyre planning Season 3 and beyond.
Thanks,
Stormshade
You actually missed my point it was c store was supposed to be cosmetic as in nothing that affects the game in any way...... thats how it was marketed now its selling more and more stuff that has an effect in game...
Comments
Yeah, it just keeps looking worse and worse for them. But I get the impression that they feel if they cover their ears and shout "LALALALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU" when we have criticiscm and negative feedback, that we'll just roll over and accept it.
One or two items, I might be able to accept. Certianly some of the more unique stuff, such as the Galaxy X (Appeared in one episode) or the Mirror Universe Uniforms. (Again, appeared in one episode)
Canon ships, equipment, etc. DOES NOT BELONG IN THE C-STORE!!!!!
Let me repeat:
CANON STAR TREK SHIPS, UNIFORMS, ETC DO NOT BELONG IN THE C-STORE!!!!
The canon ships, uniforms and equipment should have been the core of this game. The nuts and bolts. Then, the fluff and the Cryptic developed stuff should have been in the C-Store.
For example: All canon ships would be in the game, however customization would only be achieved by purchasing the Cryptic variants from the C-Store, unlocking additional customization options, just like they did with Bridges.
But Cryptic doesn't want anyone questioning their Holy Grail. They say the funds are being used to fuel development. And yet, the in game story content, the Klingon side of things, and the overhaul of exploration is coming at about 1/4 of the pace that new C-Store stuff is coming out. I bet if they did a poll among the players asking what they feel should be speed up development wise, they would find that the players don't care as much about the C-Store, and would much rather that development time be focused on content, bug fixes, etc.
Basically this boils down to the players, paying for the development costs after the game has released. The game released in a state that it shouldn't have been released, Cryptic needs more money to bring it up to a level acceptable to the customers, and are dinging the customer's pocketbook to make it what it should have been.
It's not right. Not right at all.
And any negative feedback on their economic model, gets buried, so as to try and hide the problem.
As I said I want them to prove me wrong. get Dstahl in here to talk to us, and get the guy making decisions about the C-store in here to talk to us. tells us what's going on, and tell us what is planed. they started this fire, and it is their job to put it out, and trying to hide it is not going to stop it.
Maybe THAT should be forwarded to the "Budget Department"...
Sure some of the stuff should have been in the game at the begining. I'm not denying that, it's just a low priority for some people.
I guarentee that it hasn't gone unnoticed by me.
I have seen over the past couple of days, several staunch supporters of STO/Cryptic begin to change their tune. This is not a good sign, and if Cryptic can't see that, then they are truly doomed.
I've stated in previous posts that this economic model can't sustain itself, and ultimately is not feasible. It is very possible Cryptic will see that too, very soon. The backlash has been mounting since the Exclusives and Galaxy X debacle, and with the Nebula/Excelsior, it's about to get a whole lot worse.
There is only so much people will pay out on a hobby before they begin to re-evaluate if their hobby is worth while, and if the enjoyment they get from their hobby can justify the expense.
PSN Home is not even a remotely even comparison. In PSN Home all you do is walk / run around and do a few short games while chatting with other people. Things like pool, chess, draughts / checkers which you play against another person. Comparing that to STO where you ... well.. walk / run / fly your ship around and .... um.. well... do a few short games (of kill things, scan things, or kill and scan things) while chatting to other people. ....... I've lost my argument, I'll shush now.
In seriousness though PSN Home isn't meant to be an MMO and it doesn't have a monthly subscription fee. Those two points alone are enough to invalidate your comparison even though I know all about the charges for any type of real customisation and paying for branded items which is pretty insulting. Paying for a virtual product that helps advertise a product in real life...
That is one of my thoughts on this too. The Excelsior, as the ship poll winner, should be free for everyone. The Nebula was popular and a far closer second than I thought it would be but ultimately it didn't win the poll and if that was pushed to the C-Store I'd see that as fair as it didn't win and would not otherwise be in the game.
Paying $1 for a small picture frame, so your "house" can look "nicer". How about XBox Live? $30 for a $5 expansion, that only adds a couple of weapons and maybe a map? $5 picture and theme packs?
Maybe Sony should charge for Home, it may help improve PSN past the lagfest it is right now.
I know exactly how it was paid for friend, my sub fee, the same as in every other game I play. Please do not come in and try to patronize me, it's rather insulting.
That probably also helped pay for server up keep, and pay cheques, and other bills acquired during the normal operation of a business.
What irks me isn't the C-store, or even adding the two ships, what irks me is that since launch 6ish months ago, Cryptic has not added *anything* to the game in terms of ship parts/uniform parts, for free, aside from a few things like one badges or whatever.
Compared to Champions online, this is increadably poor.
The Nebula and the excelsior really ought to be added to the game, for free, just because of that, and after this Cryptic needs to do something like a 2-to-1 ratio of free things added to the game vs c-store stuff, even if the c-store stuff tends to be the better stuff. (for example, why not add a few alt nacelles to ships, or a different saucer to Research science ships? it's the little free things cryptic, that make people happy with microtransactions.)
How exactly do people propose they generate the funds to pay for the extra work that the players want them to do? I mean let's face it folks 15 a month per sub probably pays for the basic operations of the game but I doubt that it generates enough revenue to pay for all the extra goodies people want thrown in.
If you guys want to blame some one for these ships going to the C-store, blame the people who rushed to get their Galaxy X, they are the ones who proved to Cryptic that C-store + ships = $$. You can't blame cryptic for jumping on an opportunity to make a profit. I personally have not bought the Galaxy X and have no intention to buy the Nebula or the Excelsior either. I have never been a fan of any of those ships so I can't be bothered but I guarantee that if they put an ENT J up there I would grab mine the second it went live.
While I am unfamiliar with whatever liscensing arrangement Cryptic has with CBS, the normal "bills" are more than being handled by the subscriber base. If not, things need to be cut back. If that means cutting back on content, then maybe they are in the wrong business.
Many developers and publishers are making a lot of money by not trying to be greedy. It's all a matter of management. But there is a bean-counter somewhere at Cryptic (and this has been admitted to...) that has determined that EVERYTHING has to be monetized. When this happened to the Big 3 in the auto industry, the consumer base voted with their wallets. Sadly, I don't think the White House will authorize any TARP money for Atari to override consumer refusal after the cow has been milked dry.
It will be buried deeper than Jimmy Hoffa.
In before closed!
This will give players who like to fast track, wallet-support, or a combination of the two the chance to pay real money to get it right away, conversely rewarding players who put their TIME and MONEY into the game to buy it without any additional spending (essentially already spending subscription dollars needed to get the merit points to buy the ship)
If you set up a model like this, you will be satisfying most people, and still generating revenue for Cryptics investment into creating the 2 ships.
I think you'll find that the 'screaming' is about how the ship poll has been turned into a tool to find out what will get them the most money as opposed to what it seemed like, which was to find out which ship most players wanted to see added to the game. Of course there was no mention of it being a C-Store item in the poll but as I and at least one other have said now it will be the last poll I participate in for that reason alone.
As for the last paragraph you wrote well that just made me laugh. You say blame the people who rushed to get their Galaxy X and then admit you'd buy the Enterprise J the second it went live. You're smart to not say you blame them so you can avoid being a hypocrit but it also shows you're crazy and should not be allowed near pointy things. The Enterprise J?! You're either on too little or too many meds.
yes sir I was one of cryptic's biggest fans, and it kills me when the marketing department does stupid stuff to ruin the game. be it the sale gate, or this mess up now. each time my faith is chipping away.
Enterprise-J wouldn't make any sense. Starfleet still is working with the Ent-E, so if the Ent-J class was around while the Ent-E was still working, it would mean that when it finally came the time to comission the Ent-J they would have to use a REALLY old class of ship.
Thanks again for all of your feedback. It really is incredibly valued.
I understand that some of you are upset that the Excelsior and Nebula Class vessels are headed to the C-Store. Theres a number of reasons for this, and I want to try and address them for you.
Some people are upset because they feel these items shouldnt go into the C-Store because theyre "Canon Ships".
I can understand this view point, and Ill make sure to pass it along. I also want to remind you however that we use the C-store to make things that you are requesting, which otherwise would not make it into the game. So, without the C-store, there would be no excelsior or Nebula in STO for some time.
The most prevalent reason seems to be that some people feel as though theyre not getting enough bang for their subscription buck right now. Its very true that your subscription fees do go towards the ongoing development of Star Trek Online. So, I thought I would remind you all of some of the things weve added since launch for free to all of our players.
PvP
Shanty Town PvP Map
Uniform Options
Off Duty Uniforms
New stances and hairstyles at the tailor.
Klingon
The KTanco Battle Cruiser
New Klingon Only Episodes(Coming Soon)
New Klingon Carrier
Federation
War Games (Fed vs. Fed PvP)
The Diplomatic Corps (Coming Soon)
Defiant/Galaxy/Intrepid Refits
Fleet Actions/Content
The Big Dig
DS9 Under Siege
New Undine Missions and Fleet Action (Coming Soon)
Weekly Featured Episodes (Coming Soon)
Miscellaneous
The Difficulty Slider
The Injury System
Accolades
Squad Support
Mini Games (Coming Soon)
Level Cap Increase, 45-51 (Coming Soon)
Veterans Rewards
Not to mention numerous bug fixes, and other minor changes and polish weve made based on your feedback. Were already hard at work planning Season 3 for you right now as well! Almost all of the things listed above have been things that you, our community, has asked us to make happen for you. I personally feel that the Dev Team is doing a great job of pushing out content that you all have been asking for, and at a bang up pace.
However, Im also seeing that you guys would like to see some more customization updates included in the next big update. It may not happen for Season 2, but I will make sure to pass that along to the Dev Team so they can keep that in mind as theyre planning Season 3 and beyond.
Thanks,
Stormshade
Why wouldn't you make canon items regardless if we were asking for them or not. For that matter why didn't it dawn on you to make these things to begin with?
Admittedly It does bug me to see weekly updates to the C-store. It creates the illusion that the C-store is all that is growing but you bring up valid points as to what has been added otherwise. At teh end of the day though, when it comes to alternative skins and, so help me, even some of these Alien races It don't care so much. when it comes to bridges we've never sene before I dont care so much. When it comes to items you would reasonably be expected to see in a game labeled 'Star Trek' That is where It crosses the line.
Cryptic has yet to release a SINGLE new original federation ship or skin for free, not one single one.
Don't you think its time we got a break here?
I would actually have rather had all the 'canon' ships in the C-Store b/c it is an option to have the ships people want *even though they don't really belong in this time frame*. Meanwhile brand new/original Cryptic ships should be the standard ones that fill out this universe and come with the game updates.
However I'm sure all would be better if a 20 % - 40 % discount for lifers in the C-Store. This I feel is very reasonable. We have been backing STO and put our $$$ where our mouths are, because we are patient and believe that STO will be around as long as the Star Trek legacy to date. :cool:
While that's all nice...I don't believe any klingon asked for a carrier, and a refit ship would be treatly appreciated. I don't mean to come across as being brash...however bug fixes are things that one would expect from a finished product...Speaking of bug fixes...it's nice to know you thought enough to change the klingon armour so the clipping of the sash and shoulder pices aren't as bad.;)
Stormshade, the problem with your list is that it's both true, but I imagine many people feel that things like squad support should have been in since before launch, but I digress.
In Champions Online, within 3 months there had been two event-based content patches, as well as one end-game dungeon. Blood moon added a number of perks, and a number of costume pieces, including a pvp map and another powerset.
In November, they released Nemcon, an end game dungeon. But it wasn't just a dungeon, also included were two costume sets and a neato cape.
In December, another costume set, and a mask/hat, plus the event on top of it.
The problem, as I see it, is not so much that you've not added stuff, but that you've not added enough, and the stuff you've added is... hit or miss. Take these klingon episodes; You're assuming I'm a klingon player; same with the ships you quote. Off-duty uniforms are another example-- why would anyone but RPs want off-duty clothes anyway? And why is it that none of them look remotely like they should be worn on risa? And the choses you've given us, in Off-duty clothing, is (at least for the females) extremely limiting, we have, what? 9? combinations we could make?
Compare Champions Online's c-store to STO's; the Champions one has 31 items that can be bought, including action figures and emblems, vs STO's 41 (including emotes) it may not sound like much of a difference, but CO has been out for nearly a year, and STO is only pulling 6 months.
Ultimately I don't care if you add the ships to the store, but I do know that STO has a serious image problem in regards to this c-store, one that Champions Online doesn't have. Cryptic needs to act fast and pointedly to change this image of a money grabbing corporation who's only milking STO.
I'd rather not see STO die because Cryptic drove it's player base away, and alienated people who might be interested in STO.
You actually missed my point it was c store was supposed to be cosmetic as in nothing that affects the game in any way...... thats how it was marketed now its selling more and more stuff that has an effect in game...