To add to the list above, the lower hull of the Prometheus' windows and red stripe are now shifted upwards a bit and are getting cut off in parts by the hull.
Does anyone check this stuff before they add it to the game? 5 seconds and I noticed these errors. Are they that pressed for time that they can't even check their work or do they just not care?
Jaggy and crappy now, sure, but it's still better than that awful texture layout it had there before. It was seriously the laziest UV map I have ever seen up until now.
The pictured needs fixed, but at least they're trying.
just some things to ponder, but the defiant variants (the valiant for example) could use some more interest added to the hull, like the plasma exhaust ports, sensor array, pulse cannons visual, etc
i noticed on the delta flyer that the forward torpedo launcher is where the deflector is supposed to be. could they be moved to the front of the extrusion on the bottom of the ship.. it seems more ideal.
one more thing.. could you work on cameras so that as you get smaller ships, the camera is always a set distance from the ship.
example:
my star cruiser appears right up on the camera, which is a great visual. when i select an advanced escort, it appears much further away. its harder to see to operate it, but manageable. when you get to a shuttle, it appears so far away from the camera, at times you lose it, cant see it or where its going, and have a rough time judging distances for piloting. thank you
for the prometheus updates i noticed the c-store versions lower hull and upper hull dont line up with the opposing hull choices for other variants. for example selecting the lower hull of that and the upper hull of the cerebrus, the back end of the cerebrus upper saucer hull drops till it hits the Hephaestus lower, where it extends out. the back end of the saucer and the lower hull does not line up.. and its very drastic.. i will confirm later.. and update this appropriately
Just highlighting again since its being worked on.
The Prometheus Lower hull piece is all wrong.
As seen at 0:11, the lower hull does not slope as it does not, it is a large bulky piece that then has a sharp angle up towards the shuttlebay.
0:18 shows it again, the top of the view is the ventral section and clearly shows the geometry of the lower hull. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGH9Q_6JX_c
Just highlighting again since its being worked on.
The Prometheus Lower hull piece is all wrong.
As seen at 0:11, the lower hull does not slope as it does not, it is a large bulky piece that then has a sharp angle up towards the shuttlebay.
0:18 shows it again, the top of the view is the ventral section and clearly shows the geometry of the lower hull. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGH9Q_6JX_c
Not to mention the impulse engines should be blue (like the NX) or white (not sure from the images but they aren't red).
Bugs with Prometheus variants. Copied from tribble discussion.
In this image, the model update shows that what might be the auxiliary nacelle is actually floating outside the ship connected by nothing. In the final version, this should be flush against the hull and hidden from view until MVAM is activated, only then should it pop out:
And this next one is on holodeck and I'm surprised it hasn't been fixed yet. Using the Cerberus lower hull, the red Starfleet streaky, stripy thing is actually not connected to the hull. It floats away from it, and carries back away from the hull into space a good long way.
Lastly, the underside of the Prometheus saucer seems to have had a texture change. It doesn't look intentional to me, as it looks really jaggy and crappy.
Many of the other posts are simply restating issues that are already listed on the first page.
Please utilise imgur or tinypic so I do not have to rehost the images to cut down on the amount of space the links take. Imgur has an advantage of letting you resize, crop and rotate images on the fly before submitting them, as well as reducing image quality if need be.
That is on holodeck. It went to tribble and then went immediately to holodeck with no testing time.
Your mentioning that it came from the tribble discussion area lead me to believe it was not live.
I will add it to the front page.
*edit*
And if anyone sees anything on the front page that no longer needs mentioning, please let me know so I can pare down the list to only pertinent entries.
Credit to -Jes- for the initial effort, the first section is a direct quote:
Please utilise http://imgur.com/ (pictures) and http://tiny.cc/ (pages) when submitting info to help keep the bloat down on the front page posts.
Federation:
Ship part registries are glitchy, can replace NCC number with 987098709870:
Beam weapons: The TOS Constitution's phaser banks prove that we do not need hugely fat beams to represent our weapons fire. Can the other beams be narrowed to be more like the TOS Connie's beams?
Banks instead of strips: The Miranda and Constitution are firing out of non-canonical phaser strips instead of the banks that remained standard on them long into the NG era. (See pics below in the appropriate section.)
Tier 0
Centaur has windows and escape pods on Impulse Engines
Canon Inconsistencies:
Constitution:
Reference Aft hull and ventral saucer sensor domes not lit on in game model.
Single cannon weapon pimple obscuring windows on the ventral bow of the Rapier saucer. (Can we get some actual torpedo launchers instead of the ugly pimple place holders on the hulls?)
Using the Sabre hull restricts you to Type 1 windows, possibly because the Sabre hull is the only one that has no windows.
Saber Dual Phaser Banks firing from nacelles, perhaps centralise them into a TMP style phaser bank
Seen in above pics: Escape pods located in the incorrect locations. They are difficult to see in the Drex files pics, but they are definitely there and show where they should be.
The following is a partial list. View the full list of errors HERE
Special torpedoes seem to be firing from everywhere BUT the dorsal torpedo nacelle. Tricobalt cluster torps seem to launch from the bow and heavy plasmas / rear torpedoes launch from somewhere beneath the ship.
The dorsal phaser arrays do not extend far enough around the saucer, the ventral phaser arrays are broken up into four strips, two along the darkened indentations between the rim and the bulge and two much smaller ones are on either side of the weapon pimple.
Missing Starfleet decals from ventral saucer bulge
Dorsal hull decals missing the ship registry
Aft shuttle bays 1 & 2 are too small; the doors are the incorrect shape and are not numbered
Central shuttle bay / Cargo doors missing.
There is a little nodule jutting out beneath the landing platform at the aft of the saucer that should not be there.
I feel you must mean CapnLogan. Unfortunately, as much as I'd love it, I don't have a private line of communication with our dear Capn.
Probably because he knows I'd always be pestering him with issues and asking what he's working on and generally being a nuisance
Speaking of which, CapnLogan did a great job on the detail of the Quantum Turret/Captain's Yatch... unfortunately he made it much much too small and the surrounding hull area much too narrow. :cool: http://alexraptor.com/images/SovTurretSize.jpg
Speaking of which, CapnLogan did a great job on the detail of the Quantum Turret/Captain's Yatch... unfortunately he made it much much too small and the surrounding hull area much too narrow. :cool: http://alexraptor.com/images/SovTurretSize.jpg
still hoping you fix the defiant after your done with the mvam, or at least in your spare time maybe.
its a hard ship to get right, but i know you can do it!
whats wrong is so bad that... i hope you prioritize it over other minor issues with other ships, which arent so glaring.
the thing is, im not even sure whats wrong with the nacelles, I know that as the artist you can see what corrections you need to make it perfect, on this final modification, and let us give feedback before you finalize it, but i know for sure something is wrong with the nose. the nacelles might just be a scale perspective, looking from the side, the back, top, bottom, its not so glaring, but the nose angle is so bad
ill show you another shot. from the behind of the defiant in first contact, compared to an aft view in STO, you cannot see the nose piece at all from the aft in sto, because it isn't angled downward enough, you can clearly see it from the aft, on the model in first contact. im not convinced it has to do with the angle of the nose piece, but more the top part itself, but if you slopped the top part to be more curved, that wouldnt affect being able to see the bottom of the nose from behind, so maybe the nose and how it fits into the model needs redoing?
maybe the bottom half the nose piece is not on a big enough scale so that it can be seen from directly behind the ship either.
like i said, i hope the artist can figure out what is wrong, but i simply dont think its the angle of the nose, because i think in the shows, the bottom part of the nose is straight just like in the game, looking at it more and more, the top of the nose needs to be slopped more downward an angle for sure, a side by side comparison confirms that and also a dead on front view of the defiant in show and in game, shows the one in the show with the top part of the nose slopped more downwards, in the game its too straight..
a good episode to look at for a fly by of the defiant right at the beginning is DS9 season 4, "To The Death" episode 23.
see here you can see from the front, the steepness of the top of the nose curve, you can see a good portion of the top of the nose, but i dont think that its necesarily that the nose is 'angled' down any more, it looks more like the top part just has more of a slope.
maybe the under body beam, meaning the height of the main body itself on the sto model, which is between the two nacelles is two thick in height, too tall, and therefore it blocks the bottom of the nose piece from being seen when looking at it from the aft.
I think overall you did a great job with such a hard ship, other games have never got the defiant right. I also feel that even tho those images show some disparity when super imposed over the sto model, that those are more to do with the zoom views in sto, because if its slightly off centered, then it really alters the view of the model and when trying to compare with a focused direct shot of the model or a cgi mode, then it looks different, but comparing the sto model and the tv model more and more, i dont see very much wrong or out of scale. I do realize then when you go to finally zoom the last bit in STO that the zoom jumps alot, and you dont get to zoom very exact. it throws off perspective alot and since the defiant is a very clunky ship with alot of clunky parts, its 'look' can change if the angle you are viewing from changes slightly.
but again i think for sure the nose needs fixing, until it can be viewed like how it is on the show. the rest of the things like the nacelles, dont seem to throw it off very much, and ignoring the nose, the rest of the model looks great and pwell put together, all except for the nose piece.
im just saying this so you dont go altering something that isn't wrong and throw it completely out of wack!
I feel you must mean CapnLogan. Unfortunately, as much as I'd love it, I don't have a private line of communication with our dear Capn.
Probably because he knows I'd always be pestering him with issues and asking what he's working on and generally being a nuisance
Yea I can tell he has alot of stuff to do.
I will work on some photos on whats missing on the ship and ya can add it to the list that is missing. Hopefully one day he will go back to the sovereign and update the model.
Sovereign Captain's Yacht / Quantum Torpedo Turret:
IT'S ENORMOUS! (Playability means nothing when it destroys immersion. You may as well have made it a wireframe model.)
This pic would have looked better if the pic was from the bottom and you would have circled the yacht and the turret and drawn a line between them to indicate that one was supposed to be the other.
If anyone can, take some shots of the Toron shuttle next to a Tier 0 bird of prey for me and some shots of a runabout next to an Intrepid's Aeroshuttle blister to show the scale discrepancy there, as well. (The Aeroshuttle is basically a modified runabout model.)
Guramba siege destroyer with Aegis Deflector issue:
In 'normal' mode, the port middle prong doesn't light up, nor does the bussard collector change from green to the orange-red pattern. (It doesn't light up when in Siege mode when it becomes the starboard prong either, by the way.)
This has been going on since the ship and aegis set were released on Tribble and it still hasn't been fixed yet. If it were a free ship, it'd be bad enough, but for the most expensive KDF ship in the C-store to *still* be having this problem after *months* is getting ridiculous. The ship looks stupid with the one prong missing the aegis graphics.
Sovereign Captain's Yacht / Quantum Torpedo Turret:
IT'S ENORMOUS! (Playability means nothing when it destroys immersion. You may as well have made it a wireframe model.)
This pic would have looked better if the pic was from the bottom and you would have circled the yacht and the turret and drawn a line between them to indicate that one was supposed to be the other.
So, anyone also notice we dont have those light almost pastel or faded colors for hull designs on like the Enterprise B model and the Defiant? This is something I just noticed, actually take a look at any picture of either ship and I can tell you wont be able to get that lighter or faded color. Just intense or dark are the choices currently in game.
As a 'best, most logical compromise' option, I'll say it again - it'd be great to use the ship scales that Bernd Schneider created over at Ex-Astris-Scientia:
For those not already in the know, he's coming at it from an engineer's perspective (in real life, I might add), and he's done a great job of weighing up all the on-screen evidence and behind-the-scenes notes, coming up with an 'averaged' size of each ship that makes sense and looks consistent between the different classes.
Obviously it's not going to solve EVERY issue, but it's a thousand times better than the current scaling (or lack thereof), where runabouts are almost as big as science vessels, and space stations are the size of a small moon (oh, the irony...)
Comments
Does anyone check this stuff before they add it to the game? 5 seconds and I noticed these errors. Are they that pressed for time that they can't even check their work or do they just not care?
The pictured needs fixed, but at least they're trying.
i noticed on the delta flyer that the forward torpedo launcher is where the deflector is supposed to be. could they be moved to the front of the extrusion on the bottom of the ship.. it seems more ideal.
one more thing.. could you work on cameras so that as you get smaller ships, the camera is always a set distance from the ship.
example:
my star cruiser appears right up on the camera, which is a great visual. when i select an advanced escort, it appears much further away. its harder to see to operate it, but manageable. when you get to a shuttle, it appears so far away from the camera, at times you lose it, cant see it or where its going, and have a rough time judging distances for piloting. thank you
for the prometheus updates i noticed the c-store versions lower hull and upper hull dont line up with the opposing hull choices for other variants. for example selecting the lower hull of that and the upper hull of the cerebrus, the back end of the cerebrus upper saucer hull drops till it hits the Hephaestus lower, where it extends out. the back end of the saucer and the lower hull does not line up.. and its very drastic.. i will confirm later.. and update this appropriately
http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac242/wfs5519/screenshot_2011-02-11-01-27-19.jpg
http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac242/wfs5519/screenshot_2011-02-11-01-27-31.jpg
http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac242/wfs5519/screenshot_2011-02-11-01-27-07.jpg
The Prometheus Lower hull piece is all wrong.
As seen at 0:11, the lower hull does not slope as it does not, it is a large bulky piece that then has a sharp angle up towards the shuttlebay.
0:18 shows it again, the top of the view is the ventral section and clearly shows the geometry of the lower hull.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGH9Q_6JX_c
Not to mention the impulse engines should be blue (like the NX) or white (not sure from the images but they aren't red).
Only including holodeck errors, here.
Added.
Many of the other posts are simply restating issues that are already listed on the first page.
Please utilise imgur or tinypic so I do not have to rehost the images to cut down on the amount of space the links take. Imgur has an advantage of letting you resize, crop and rotate images on the fly before submitting them, as well as reducing image quality if need be.
That is on holodeck. It went to tribble and then went immediately to holodeck with no testing time.
Your mentioning that it came from the tribble discussion area lead me to believe it was not live.
I will add it to the front page.
*edit*
And if anyone sees anything on the front page that no longer needs mentioning, please let me know so I can pare down the list to only pertinent entries.
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/958/gameclient2011021220014.png
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/958/gameclient2011021220014.png
Post em again when you use an image host that doesn't force me to look at ads and pop ups.
First image
Second image
For some reason not many people realize you can directly link these things.
Sorry, my bad. I have adblock installed so I didn't notice any ads/popups. Fixed the links to be the same as Jexsam's.
http://i.imgur.com/aiNuk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1IFY3.jpg
http://alexraptor.com/images/PrometheusHullgeom.jpg
Rehosted your image, alex, so you can feel free to clear the space on your server.
Thanks for letting me know about that. Going to fix that tiny.cc link for the defiant, now.
http://tiny.cc/yjavj
Also, if anyone notices issues left up that have been fixed, please let me know so I can remove them.
I did spot more windows that are missing on the ship also spotted escape pods also mission on the ventral engineering section.
I will be happy to repost some photos if ya need Angel for loger if he starts working on editing the Sovereign Class.
I feel you must mean CapnLogan. Unfortunately, as much as I'd love it, I don't have a private line of communication with our dear Capn.
Probably because he knows I'd always be pestering him with issues and asking what he's working on and generally being a nuisance
Speaking of which, CapnLogan did a great job on the detail of the Quantum Turret/Captain's Yatch... unfortunately he made it much much too small and the surrounding hull area much too narrow. :cool:
http://alexraptor.com/images/SovTurretSize.jpg
Added to the sovereign list.
its a hard ship to get right, but i know you can do it!
whats wrong is so bad that... i hope you prioritize it over other minor issues with other ships, which arent so glaring.
the thing is, im not even sure whats wrong with the nacelles, I know that as the artist you can see what corrections you need to make it perfect, on this final modification, and let us give feedback before you finalize it, but i know for sure something is wrong with the nose. the nacelles might just be a scale perspective, looking from the side, the back, top, bottom, its not so glaring, but the nose angle is so bad
ill show you another shot. from the behind of the defiant in first contact, compared to an aft view in STO, you cannot see the nose piece at all from the aft in sto, because it isn't angled downward enough, you can clearly see it from the aft, on the model in first contact. im not convinced it has to do with the angle of the nose piece, but more the top part itself, but if you slopped the top part to be more curved, that wouldnt affect being able to see the bottom of the nose from behind, so maybe the nose and how it fits into the model needs redoing?
maybe the bottom half the nose piece is not on a big enough scale so that it can be seen from directly behind the ship either.
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n263/Cruis_In/defiant-1.png
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n263/Cruis_In/def2.png
like i said, i hope the artist can figure out what is wrong, but i simply dont think its the angle of the nose, because i think in the shows, the bottom part of the nose is straight just like in the game, looking at it more and more, the top of the nose needs to be slopped more downward an angle for sure, a side by side comparison confirms that and also a dead on front view of the defiant in show and in game, shows the one in the show with the top part of the nose slopped more downwards, in the game its too straight..
a good episode to look at for a fly by of the defiant right at the beginning is DS9 season 4, "To The Death" episode 23.
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n263/Cruis_In/defnose.png
see here you can see from the front, the steepness of the top of the nose curve, you can see a good portion of the top of the nose, but i dont think that its necesarily that the nose is 'angled' down any more, it looks more like the top part just has more of a slope.
maybe the under body beam, meaning the height of the main body itself on the sto model, which is between the two nacelles is two thick in height, too tall, and therefore it blocks the bottom of the nose piece from being seen when looking at it from the aft.
I think overall you did a great job with such a hard ship, other games have never got the defiant right. I also feel that even tho those images show some disparity when super imposed over the sto model, that those are more to do with the zoom views in sto, because if its slightly off centered, then it really alters the view of the model and when trying to compare with a focused direct shot of the model or a cgi mode, then it looks different, but comparing the sto model and the tv model more and more, i dont see very much wrong or out of scale. I do realize then when you go to finally zoom the last bit in STO that the zoom jumps alot, and you dont get to zoom very exact. it throws off perspective alot and since the defiant is a very clunky ship with alot of clunky parts, its 'look' can change if the angle you are viewing from changes slightly.
but again i think for sure the nose needs fixing, until it can be viewed like how it is on the show. the rest of the things like the nacelles, dont seem to throw it off very much, and ignoring the nose, the rest of the model looks great and pwell put together, all except for the nose piece.
im just saying this so you dont go altering something that isn't wrong and throw it completely out of wack!
Scale far too large!!!
http://alexraptor.com/images/captainsyatch1.jpg
http://alexraptor.com/images/captainsyatch2.jpg
Which is supposed detach from the Sovereign's "Quantum Torpedo Turret"(which is as we updated before, too small) :cool:
http://www.startrek.com/database_article/captains-yacht
Yea I can tell he has alot of stuff to do.
I will work on some photos on whats missing on the ship and ya can add it to the list that is missing. Hopefully one day he will go back to the sovereign and update the model.
Added as:
This pic would have looked better if the pic was from the bottom and you would have circled the yacht and the turret and drawn a line between them to indicate that one was supposed to be the other.
If anyone can, take some shots of the Toron shuttle next to a Tier 0 bird of prey for me and some shots of a runabout next to an Intrepid's Aeroshuttle blister to show the scale discrepancy there, as well.
In 'normal' mode, the port middle prong doesn't light up, nor does the bussard collector change from green to the orange-red pattern. (It doesn't light up when in Siege mode when it becomes the starboard prong either, by the way.)
You can see what I mean here. (That's the front of the ship, so the port prong is on the right.)
This has been going on since the ship and aegis set were released on Tribble and it still hasn't been fixed yet. If it were a free ship, it'd be bad enough, but for the most expensive KDF ship in the C-store to *still* be having this problem after *months* is getting ridiculous. The ship looks stupid with the one prong missing the aegis graphics.
Here are a couple of comparison pics I took awhile back though I didn't circle it.
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/5198/sovyyacht1.png
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/4302/sovyyacht2.png
This is about the sizes the shuttles should be compared to the Defiant, I started thread but this is a costume/prop version from the foundry.
http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/5888/defiantscale.png
As a 'best, most logical compromise' option, I'll say it again - it'd be great to use the ship scales that Bernd Schneider created over at Ex-Astris-Scientia:
E-A-S Fleet Charts - covering every canon ship, shuttle and space station!
For those not already in the know, he's coming at it from an engineer's perspective (in real life, I might add), and he's done a great job of weighing up all the on-screen evidence and behind-the-scenes notes, coming up with an 'averaged' size of each ship that makes sense and looks consistent between the different classes.
Obviously it's not going to solve EVERY issue, but it's a thousand times better than the current scaling (or lack thereof), where runabouts are almost as big as science vessels, and space stations are the size of a small moon (oh, the irony...)