As a 'best, most logical compromise' option, I'll say it again - it'd be great to use the ship scales that Bernd Schneider created over at Ex-Astris-Scientia:
For those not already in the know, he's coming at it from an engineer's perspective (in real life, I might add), and he's done a great job of weighing up all the on-screen evidence and behind-the-scenes notes, coming up with an 'averaged' size of each ship that makes sense and looks consistent between the different classes.
Obviously it's not going to solve EVERY issue, but it's a thousand times better than the current scaling (or lack thereof), where runabouts are almost as big as science vessels, and space stations are the size of a small moon (oh, the irony...)
Hey I agree with you 100%, I love Ex Astris and refer to it reguarly. Sure there inconsitant shots in the shows but the established scale resources like EA would be much better to fall back on as a nice average or set size. The Defiant seems to be one that varies more but set it in scale with the others from thsoe charts and it's good. As for the non-canon ships it shouldn't be too difficult to figure out a scale based on the canon ships.
In addition to Ex Astris which I think is the best and has put work into figuring out the best scale another good site for ship sizes from many of universe's is http://www.merzo.net/ .
It really is a mess though the Yacht problem.
Because as we already know, the Turret on the sovereign is scaled "too small", while the yacht itself is "too big".
Instead of the bottom of the nose piece coming DOWNWARDS from the body and then straight out like on the real model, it comes straight out in the sto model. Also the top instead of going a little but upwards first ouf of the body and then a nice curve down to meet the nose tip, it's not as curved because the top part doesn't come out ward of the body like on the model.
**
the nacelles might be a matter of perspective and positioning, only you can know that. It looks off from that first picture, but the zooming and panning in STO isn't precise. You can know because you can load up the model and see what is wrong if anything, but I am not so sure anything is too wrong with the nacelle placement.
It might be a matter of scale trying to judge from these two pictures. Ive highlighted the area where might be a problem in BLUE. This highlight shows how the studio model is a bit longer in that front section than yours or seems to be longer, not neccessarily that the nacceles arent back enough, because clearly one can see that if you move the nacelles back on the STO model they will be too close to the rear. But it might be due to scale comparison of the model to the STO model. However, in game, it does not throw off the look of the Defiant as much as the nose piece. The ship looks very wrong when viewed from the side, the front, the back etc.
Maybe the curvature section needs extending forward a bit to be "slightly" longer? Curvature section meaning the area highlighted in blue, Or maybe the nacelles on the STO model are too long? And the front needs to shorten a bit? Anyway I think since you can see these examples you can fix it, it's almost perfect, and still the best defiant model made for a game IMO.
Just came into this thread, don't have the time to read everything up to this point, so I'll just point out my problems:
Galaxy & Galaxy Retrofit "back" on the Engineering Hull is.. Odd. Smooth, like a slide down from the Main Impulse drive to the Aft Torpedo Launcher. it should be more like this.
The Intrepid & Intrepid Retrofit "spine", the Aft Torpedo Launcher is now in the right place, but there's two red clefts where the Impulse Engines used to be (and the Aft Sensor Platform should be). look at this diagram, it shows how it should be.
Sorry, I just show up on this thread and only read some of the issues that are on here, and since this seems like the only thread that' is chatting about STO star ships. I would like to know if...and Please, if Cryptic/Atari would be planing on making a Vo'Quv Class Carrier for us TAC's. I mean it would be nice if they were more Tac friendly. And if we might be seeing the Vesta Class Star Fleet ship like the U.S.S. Aventine from the new story books The Typhon Pact. The ship is looking sweet, I may be able to bring up the spics next time when I have the time. But I thought I ask while I'm here. P.S Sorry for the rant, I'm not trying to troll.:o
As far as I can tell, no-one has pointed out the following missing details on the Galaxy:
When the centre impulse engine was moved down to its correct position, the raised section on the neck wasn't extended accordingly, leaving a gap above the engine.
There should be red stripes running the length of the spine on the dorsal engineering section.
As far as I can tell, no-one has pointed out the following missing details on the Galaxy:
When the centre impulse engine was moved down to its correct position, the raised section on the neck wasn't extended accordingly, leaving a gap above the engine.
There should be red stripes running the length of the spine on the dorsal engineering section.
As an aside, it would be awesome to see those arboretum windows and the ship's name on either side of the front neck!
/Signed. The secondary hull and neck needs the same treatment the Saucer got in Season 2. As I keep saying as well it would be cool if there were more texture/deflector options to choose from.
In the 1st season of TNG the deflector looked red/blue then when they made the 4ft model for season 4 onwards it had more of a burnt orage colour. Thats what we have in game now, but its laking detail.
/Signed. The secondary hull and neck needs the same treatment the Saucer got in Season 2. As I keep saying as well it would be cool if there were more texture/deflector options to choose from.
In the 1st season of TNG the deflector looked red/blue then when they made the 4ft model for season 4 onwards it had more of a burnt orage colour. Thats what we have in game now, but its laking detail.
Definitely. Although CapnLogan did a great job with the Galaxy, Star Trek fans will never be satisfied until it's perfect!
My dream STO Galaxy would look as close as possible to the wonderfully re-painted 6 footer that was used in Generations. The ship looks gorgeous in that film. It's a shame that she hardly got any screen time, actually.
Yea same with the Sovereign and she needs a whole over haul to make it perfect. So I hope one day logan will beable to find good time on the Sovereign.
- Missing blue/customizable color stripe on the secondary hull
- Ventral cargo bay area should be illuminated with bright blue light.
- Windows need to be "smaller" and the secondary hull needs more rows of windows.
And there you go. I think it would make the dflector stand out better than it currently does at the moment, instead of a plain texture. please CapnLogan...add this.
A good proposal in principle, but the colour shown on the ship in STO should morror the SFX shots from the show, not the colour seen on the model.
Just like the dish on the model is orange but looks blueish in the SFX scenes.
The section you correctly pointed out needs to have "ruffles" but it should be less orange, but interestingly enough it looks more like some kind of occre or brown in SFX and I think that's what it should look like in STO as well.
A good proposal in principle, but the colour shown on the ship in STO should morror the SFX shots from the show, not the colour seen on the model.
Just like the dish on the model is orange but looks blueish in the SFX scenes.
The section you correctly pointed out needs to have "ruffles" but it should be less orange, but interestingly enough it looks more like some kind of occre or brown in SFX and I think that's what it should look like in STO as well.
Either way what we hav now could be improved just a little.
Well pointed out. I think If they added the ruffles it would look loads better than just the current texture they have at the moment. it has no depth at present.
- Missing blue/customizable color stripe on the secondary hull
- Ventral cargo bay area should be illuminated with bright blue light.
- Windows need to be "smaller" and the secondary hull needs more rows of windows.
My biggest peeves with the Excelsior model? The windows at the rear ends of the nacelles! :mad:
Same with the TOS Constitution, which has an inexplicable row of windows at the top of each nacelle pylon. Not to mention the fact that the windows in general are wrong - they should be rectangular, not just a re-use of the TMP windows.
I agree they are missing, but we've seen versions of that ship with and without them.
Over in the Klingon Gameplay forums we've been discussing the posibility of adding the version with the pods as a seperate ship, like the regular Galaxy and the Dreadnought Galaxy are seperate ships.
Either way those pods should be in the game, either on the existing Negh'var Battlecruiser or on a Neghvar Battleship version.
As far as I can tell, no-one has pointed out the following missing details on the Galaxy:
When the centre impulse engine was moved down to its correct position, the raised section on the neck wasn't extended accordingly, leaving a gap above the engine.
There should be red stripes running the length of the spine on the dorsal engineering section.
- Missing blue/customizable color stripe on the secondary hull
- Ventral cargo bay area should be illuminated with bright blue light.
- Windows need to be "smaller" and the secondary hull needs more rows of windows.
And there you go. I think it would make the dflector stand out better than it currently does at the moment, instead of a plain texture. please CapnLogan...add this.
Added the model pic to the section detailing the issue with the deflector. I won't presume to tell our good Capn how to do his job, just that he needs to get on the ball. (Besides, you don't want to use the ribbed texture, you want a ridged UV texture that simulates a texture so that he does not have to model every little ridge. I do believe, however, that he should definitely make the area with the deflector more concave. Many of the ships deserve some concave deflectors.
Quite correct, but as a practical matter, I can't help but wonder how bad it would be - due to the perspective used in this game - to have to stare into that light all the time when flying an Excel. Things the model designers in the movies didn't have to think about...
Quite correct, but as a practical matter, I can't help but wonder how bad it would be - due to the perspective used in this game - to have to stare into that light all the time when flying an Excel. Things the model designers in the movies didn't have to think about...
Can't see how it would be any worse than nacelle glows.
...can we add the 'vapour trails' and glowing blobs on impulse engines to the list of 'errors', since we've never ever seen any ship in Star Trek with them?
Sure, keep them for the 'warp out' effect, since that looks cool (
...can we add the 'vapour trails' and glowing blobs on impulse engines to the list of 'errors', since we've never ever seen any ship in Star Trek with them?
Sure, keep them for the 'warp out' effect, since that looks cool (
Not really a ship error, but something I've asked several times in the "ask cryptic" threads but never gets answered. It seems that questions favourable to that are "What did you have for breakfast?" and "How smooth was your last BM?"
Tell me about it!
It's like the issue of rank, which seems to get glossed over all the time. It'd be so nice to be able to enjoy the game as a Captain
How about the enterprise from the 2009 movie? she was sleek; i could see that in the c-store or ship req
To name just one problem, I don't think they have the rights to use that ship in STO. >_>
Also, on the topic of problems with ships in-game, is anyone else having an issue where the warp pylons of the Delta Flyer aren't moving when you go to warp? Also, although this is currently only an issue on Tribble, the fifth nacelle of the Prometheus isn't popping out during MVAM; is anyone else having the same problem?
Comments
Hey I agree with you 100%, I love Ex Astris and refer to it reguarly. Sure there inconsitant shots in the shows but the established scale resources like EA would be much better to fall back on as a nice average or set size. The Defiant seems to be one that varies more but set it in scale with the others from thsoe charts and it's good. As for the non-canon ships it shouldn't be too difficult to figure out a scale based on the canon ships.
In addition to Ex Astris which I think is the best and has put work into figuring out the best scale another good site for ship sizes from many of universe's is http://www.merzo.net/ .
Edited and hosted a combined image and replaced the link in the shuttle section:
http://i.imgur.com/kWLzW.png
Because as we already know, the Turret on the sovereign is scaled "too small", while the yacht itself is "too big".
this is actually a good over lay here
http://i.imgur.com/yUCy4.jpg
i see where the nose is wrong. Highlighted in RED in my picture here: (ignore the blue its about something else)
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n263/Cruis_In/defiantcompare-1.jpg
Instead of the bottom of the nose piece coming DOWNWARDS from the body and then straight out like on the real model, it comes straight out in the sto model. Also the top instead of going a little but upwards first ouf of the body and then a nice curve down to meet the nose tip, it's not as curved because the top part doesn't come out ward of the body like on the model.
**
the nacelles might be a matter of perspective and positioning, only you can know that. It looks off from that first picture, but the zooming and panning in STO isn't precise. You can know because you can load up the model and see what is wrong if anything, but I am not so sure anything is too wrong with the nacelle placement.
It might be a matter of scale trying to judge from these two pictures. Ive highlighted the area where might be a problem in BLUE. This highlight shows how the studio model is a bit longer in that front section than yours or seems to be longer, not neccessarily that the nacceles arent back enough, because clearly one can see that if you move the nacelles back on the STO model they will be too close to the rear. But it might be due to scale comparison of the model to the STO model. However, in game, it does not throw off the look of the Defiant as much as the nose piece. The ship looks very wrong when viewed from the side, the front, the back etc.
Maybe the curvature section needs extending forward a bit to be "slightly" longer? Curvature section meaning the area highlighted in blue, Or maybe the nacelles on the STO model are too long? And the front needs to shorten a bit? Anyway I think since you can see these examples you can fix it, it's almost perfect, and still the best defiant model made for a game IMO.
please fix, thanks in advance!
Galaxy & Galaxy Retrofit "back" on the Engineering Hull is.. Odd. Smooth, like a slide down from the Main Impulse drive to the Aft Torpedo Launcher. it should be more like this.
The Intrepid & Intrepid Retrofit "spine", the Aft Torpedo Launcher is now in the right place, but there's two red clefts where the Impulse Engines used to be (and the Aft Sensor Platform should be). look at this diagram, it shows how it should be.
When in my "Ready Room" If I sit at my captains desk, the computer terminal (for replay missions) is just -barley- out of reach to activate it.
It actually isn't. It's just deactivated for the captain's chair.
Ventral View showing whats Missing
Dorsal View showing whats missing
Dorsal Schematic
Ventral Schematic Recently added the extra windows to fit the Nemesis Version of the Sovereign.
See these images for illustrations:
http://i.imgur.com/CHMWh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/gDEzn.jpg
As an aside, it would be awesome to see those arboretum windows and the ship's name on either side of the front neck!
/Signed. The secondary hull and neck needs the same treatment the Saucer got in Season 2. As I keep saying as well it would be cool if there were more texture/deflector options to choose from.
In the 1st season of TNG the deflector looked red/blue then when they made the 4ft model for season 4 onwards it had more of a burnt orage colour. Thats what we have in game now, but its laking detail.
Definitely. Although CapnLogan did a great job with the Galaxy, Star Trek fans will never be satisfied until it's perfect!
My dream STO Galaxy would look as close as possible to the wonderfully re-painted 6 footer that was used in Generations. The ship looks gorgeous in that film. It's a shame that she hardly got any screen time, actually.
- Missing blue/customizable color stripe on the secondary hull
- Ventral cargo bay area should be illuminated with bright blue light.
- Windows need to be "smaller" and the secondary hull needs more rows of windows.
http://alexraptor.com/images/excelsiorFlaws1.jpg
Step one: Use the same material/texture thats scattered around fed ships and used for the phaser strips
: http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m532/CaptainWallis/Example1.jpg
Step 2: Add to main dflector overbite/rim :http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m532/CaptainWallis/Example2.jpg
Step 3: Add burnt orange look just like the original 6ft model :http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m532/CaptainWallis/IMG_2026.jpg
And there you go. I think it would make the dflector stand out better than it currently does at the moment, instead of a plain texture. please CapnLogan...add this.
Just like the dish on the model is orange but looks blueish in the SFX scenes.
The section you correctly pointed out needs to have "ruffles" but it should be less orange, but interestingly enough it looks more like some kind of occre or brown in SFX and I think that's what it should look like in STO as well.
From Star Trek 7:
http://cdn.okcimg.com/php/load_okc_image.php/images/0x0/0x0/0/13078049274757590858.jpeg
From "Enterprise: These are the Voyages":
http://knol.google.com/k/-/-/26oinc8fisvvb/4hoz4h/ussenterprise-d2cthesearethevoyages.jpg
Either way what we hav now could be improved just a little.
Well pointed out. I think If they added the ruffles it would look loads better than just the current texture they have at the moment. it has no depth at present.
Good catches, there!
My biggest peeves with the Excelsior model? The windows at the rear ends of the nacelles! :mad:
Same with the TOS Constitution, which has an inexplicable row of windows at the top of each nacelle pylon. Not to mention the fact that the windows in general are wrong - they should be rectangular, not just a re-use of the TMP windows.
I agree they are missing, but we've seen versions of that ship with and without them.
Over in the Klingon Gameplay forums we've been discussing the posibility of adding the version with the pods as a seperate ship, like the regular Galaxy and the Dreadnought Galaxy are seperate ships.
Either way those pods should be in the game, either on the existing Negh'var Battlecruiser or on a Neghvar Battleship version.
Added
Added, but used a canonical shot instead of a fan rendering.
Great detail on the image, thanks Alex!
Added the model pic to the section detailing the issue with the deflector. I won't presume to tell our good Capn how to do his job, just that he needs to get on the ball.
thanks.
Quite correct, but as a practical matter, I can't help but wonder how bad it would be - due to the perspective used in this game - to have to stare into that light all the time when flying an Excel. Things the model designers in the movies didn't have to think about...
Can't see how it would be any worse than nacelle glows.
...can we add the 'vapour trails' and glowing blobs on impulse engines to the list of 'errors', since we've never ever seen any ship in Star Trek with them?
Sure, keep them for the 'warp out' effect, since that looks cool (
Tell me about it!
It's like the issue of rank, which seems to get glossed over all the time. It'd be so nice to be able to enjoy the game as a Captain
To name just one problem, I don't think they have the rights to use that ship in STO. >_>
Also, on the topic of problems with ships in-game, is anyone else having an issue where the warp pylons of the Delta Flyer aren't moving when you go to warp? Also, although this is currently only an issue on Tribble, the fifth nacelle of the Prometheus isn't popping out during MVAM; is anyone else having the same problem?