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Much less likely to buy lifetime again

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    StormShade wrote:
    On a more serious note: I really do understand why you feel the way you do, and I'm sorry we have made you feel that way. It's never our intent to make our players unhappy. This move was made to boost the overall satisfaction of the vast majority of our customers. Sadly, in this case, it also made you, and several others very unhappy.

    This is why you are awesome. Thanks again for letting me buy what previously I could not! You guys rock!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    MightionNY wrote: »
    I said this in another thread, but I think I'll say it again in this one.

    You are not entitled to restitution just because something you already paid for is being offered to others via a different method and/or for a different amount than how you obtained it.

    It's not about restitution. It's about how Cryptic told EVERYONE in the community that the ONLY way to get these items were to get them from the retailers. And this was before they put the up pre-order FAQ. And that those items would be exclusive. This isn't something we are just making up, go look at all the posts about it with links to who said what when. It's all there in black and white.

    Do you really think anyone would spend 350 bucks if they could wait a few months and get the same items for 40 bucks? I sure as hell wouldn't have.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    CptRanger wrote: »
    Excuse me? What overwhelming response from the players?

    My biggest issue with the whole things is for example, I bought the Champs Lifetime Subscription mainly for the Mirror Universe outfits. I played Champs Online beta, and knew it wouldn't be worth a lifetime subscription. So the 150 bucks I spent on the MU outfit is now less then 10 bucks for everyone. I bought a copy from Amazon.com for the Borg Bridge officer. I bought a copy from Direct2Drive.com for their exclusive items, both were 50 bucks. I also bought the Collectors Edition from Gamestop so I could have the exclusive Connie, and the Collectors Edition outfits that came with it.

    I payed over 550 dollars for everything, in good faith, and now anyone can purchase the same items for less then 40 dollars. Granted I'd still pay for the STO Lifetime subscription, and 1 copy of the game, so that's 250 bucks I would have spent.

    In good faith, by the words of Cryptic that items would remain exclusive, I wasted 300 bucks. And you waltz in and tell us that the majority of the players were demanding these items? I may not post much sir, but I lurk fairly often and there has NEVER been 'overwhelming demand' for these items.
    There were never any polls, never asked of the community what they thought of it or anything. You haven't even mentioned if there is going to be some sort of compensation or ANYTHING to those who were blindsided by this.

    And it's not about compensation. It's about a company you have stood by for YEARS, lieing to you, and then having the same company turn around and call you a 'valued customer'. It's two faced and in poor judgment. It's also called fraud and deceptive business practices.

    And while I'm not the one to ever say this, I will say it now. I honestly hope that Cryptic Studios and Atari are sued for deceptive business practices.
    http://polaris.umuc.edu/~tgrodsky/admn687/articles/kmarple.html

    Let me get this straight. Since you overspent on STO you think I shouldn't have access to this content, ever? You are more entitled to this because you spent more money?

    They did ask the community, they posted about this weeks ago, and I supported this before hand (even my own exclusive items no longer being exclusive) and I supported it then and I support it now.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    dojen wrote:
    Hey storm can you at least answer if cryptic is even willing to consider cpoints as compensation to those that are upset about this please

    ^^^^^ This...

    You're saying you're really upset that some of us are upset... And that you really do care... And that you're really sorry...

    But absolutely no word of possible compensation to MAKE us happy...

    Don't get me wrong, I fully agree with releasing the "exclusives" they chose to release... They are the core of Trek...

    The uniforms, the original Enterprise, tribbles, "KHAAANNN"... The importent canon things that immediately leap to mind when someone says "Star Trek"... they were made exclusive.... dumb...

    But Cryptic just screwed over a LOT of folks that supported STO from point one by buying preorders and subscriptions before the game was even released... And those that paid more for the Digital Deluxe or the Collector's Edition (and didn't buy it for the book or the badge)... I won't even mention the poor folks who bought multiple copies... people are angry...

    Throw a boine here... A few C-Store points so we could buy the "exclusives" we missed out on by purchasing another set may not make everyone happy, but it would be a step in the right direction...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    CptRanger wrote: »
    It's not about restitution. It's about how Cryptic told EVERYONE in the community that the ONLY way to get these items were to get them from the retailers. And this was before they put the up pre-order FAQ. And that those items would be exclusive. This isn't something we are just making up, go look at all the posts about it with links to who said what when. It's all there in black and white.

    Do you really think anyone would spend 350 bucks if they could wait a few months and get the same items for 40 bucks? I sure as hell wouldn't have.

    Actually, yes, I think people would because some people really want to have things other people don't, and others really want to be the first to have things, and still others have lots of disposable income.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    CptRanger wrote: »
    It's not about restitution. It's about how Cryptic told EVERYONE in the community that the ONLY way to get these items were to get them from the retailers. And this was before they put the up pre-order FAQ. And that those items would be exclusive. This isn't something we are just making up, go look at all the posts about it with links to who said what when. It's all there in black and white.

    Do you really think anyone would spend 350 bucks if they could wait a few months and get the same items for 40 bucks? I sure as hell wouldn't have.

    I thought about spending the extra money too, and I chose not to. Instead I asked Cryptic if they would ever release these in the C-store.

    Oh, by the way http://www.startrekonline.com/terms_of_service
    Read #12, especially about that bit about "Price and availability of any product or service are subject to change without notice." and "Cryptic may revise the pricing for the subscription plans and/or Cryptic Points offered, at any time."
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Let me get this straight. Since you overspent on STO you think I shouldn't have access to this content, ever? You are more entitled to this because you spent more money?

    They did ask the community, they posted about this weeks ago, and I supported this before hand (even my own exclusive items no longer being exclusive) and I supported it then and I support it now.

    The issue is that the community was told the ONLY way to get said items was to order full copies of the game. There was NO other way to do it. And with things like the MU outfits, they were only if you purchased the Champions Online Lifetime subscription, and even that was limited.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I thought about spending the extra money too, and I chose not to. Instead I asked Cryptic if they would ever release these in the C-store.

    Oh, by the way http://www.startrekonline.com/terms_of_service
    Read #12, especially about that bit about "Price and availability of any product or service are subject to change without notice." and "Cryptic may revise the pricing for the subscription plans and/or Cryptic Points offered, at any time."

    I don't recall signing that when I bought my CO LTS.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I thought about spending the extra money too, and I chose not to. Instead I asked Cryptic if they would ever release these in the C-store.

    Oh, by the way http://www.startrekonline.com/terms_of_service
    Read #12, especially about that bit about "Price and availability of any product or service are subject to change without notice." and "Cryptic may revise the pricing for the subscription plans and/or Cryptic Points offered, at any time."

    And if you really want to start pulling out links, I suggest this one on the Federal Trade Commission website about advertising.
    http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/ecommerce/bus28.shtm

    The Federal Trade Commission Act allows the FTC to act in the interest of all consumers to prevent deceptive and unfair acts or practices. In interpreting Section 5 of the Act, the Commission has determined that a representation, omission or practice is deceptive if it is likely to:

    * mislead consumers and
    * affect consumers' behavior or decisions about the product or service.


    Now under the FTC rules, it says clearly by Cryptic employee's and on the packaging of the game that said items are EXCLUSIVE.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I'm not going to read 91 pages, so this may have been covered already, but if it wasn't... why not give all of us who bought the game multiple times to get the "special bonuses" (you have no idea how hard I worked to get the borg bridge officer) a bunch of C Store points to put towards future purchases? Nothing fancy, just here's a few thousand C Store points that we have essentially already paid for. I would be totally happy with that. Anyone else?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    CptRanger wrote: »
    And if you really want to start pulling out links, I suggest this one on the Federal Trade Commission website about advertising.
    http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/ecommerce/bus28.shtm

    The Federal Trade Commission Act allows the FTC to act in the interest of all consumers to prevent deceptive and unfair acts or practices. In interpreting Section 5 of the Act, the Commission has determined that a representation, omission or practice is deceptive if it is likely to:

    * mislead consumers and
    * affect consumers' behavior or decisions about the product or service.


    Now under the FTC rules, it says clearly by Cryptic employee's and on the packaging of the game that said items are EXCLUSIVE.


    ex·clu·sive   /ɪkˈsklusɪv, -zɪv/ Show Spelled[ik-skloo-siv, -ziv] Show IPA
    –adjective
    1. not admitting of something else; incompatible: mutually exclusive plans of action.
    2. omitting from consideration or account (often fol. by of ): a profit of ten percent, exclusive of taxes.
    3. limited to the object or objects designated: exclusive attention to business.
    4. shutting out all others from a part or share: an exclusive right to film the novel.
    5. fashionable; stylish: to patronize only the most exclusive designers.
    6. charging comparatively high prices; expensive: exclusive shops.
    7. noting that in which no others have a share: exclusive information.
    8. single or sole: the exclusive means of communication between two places.
    9. disposed to resist the admission of outsiders to association, intimacy, etc.: an exclusive circle of intimate friends.
    10. admitting only members of a socially restricted or very carefully selected group: an exclusive club.
    11. excluding or tending to exclude, as from use or possession: exclusive laws.
    12. Grammar . (of the first person plural) excluding the person or persons spoken to, as we in We'll see you later. Compare inclusive ( def. 4 ) .

    Can someone explain to me how Cryptic has done anything wrong? IF you want to argue it, the items still are EXCLUSIVE, they are only available through the C-Store. That's exclusive.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    CptRanger wrote: »
    And if you really want to start pulling out links, I suggest this one on the Federal Trade Commission website about advertising.
    http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/ecommerce/bus28.shtm

    The Federal Trade Commission Act allows the FTC to act in the interest of all consumers to prevent deceptive and unfair acts or practices. In interpreting Section 5 of the Act, the Commission has determined that a representation, omission or practice is deceptive if it is likely to:

    * mislead consumers and
    * affect consumers' behavior or decisions about the product or service.


    Now under the FTC rules, it says clearly by Cryptic employee's and on the packaging of the game that said items are EXCLUSIVE.

    I'll enjoy my new BO and NX registry, you go find a lawyer who will start a class action lawsuit. Why stop there? Get a letter writing campaign going and send angry letters to your Senators and Representatives, state and federal. Write to CBS and executives of Cryptic.

    That said, I don't trust Cryptic any more than you do (or the OP for that matter). I guess I've been burned by so many companies so many, many times about 'deceptive advertising' that I just assume everyone is trying to rip me off. I don't know of any company that sold anything that didn't make someone upset in some way. You got burned, I'm sorry. I feel your pain. But seriously, what are you going to do about it?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I don't recall signing that when I bought my CO LTS.

    You clicked 'I Agree"... that's as good as a sig....


    A thought just occured to me that I wanted to throw out....

    Just how healthy is the STO C-Store? Are folks buying things? I mean, previously?

    Cryptic has said the C-Store is funded by the C-Store... purchases are used to fund the creation of new C-Store items...

    This may have been some sort of move to stimulate a sagging C-Store...

    Champions has costumes and lots of character slots to play with them; a C-Store with cool new costumes makes tons of sense... and costumes are pretty much limited to the imagination...

    But I look at STO's C-Store and I see a few ships, some playable races (some of dubious interest, at least to me), emotes(?) and a bunch of bridge packs... how many different bridge packs can a person want? And just how many new species and ships can they create before they stray too far from canon?


    I just wonder if STO just really isn't the type of game that can support a full blown C-Store....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Malicia wrote:
    ex·clu·sive   /ɪkˈsklusɪv, -zɪv/ Show Spelled[ik-skloo-siv, -ziv] Show IPA
    –adjective
    1. not admitting of something else; incompatible: mutually exclusive plans of action.
    2. omitting from consideration or account (often fol. by of ): a profit of ten percent, exclusive of taxes.
    3. limited to the object or objects designated: exclusive attention to business.
    4. shutting out all others from a part or share: an exclusive right to film the novel.
    5. fashionable; stylish: to patronize only the most exclusive designers.
    6. charging comparatively high prices; expensive: exclusive shops.
    7. noting that in which no others have a share: exclusive information.
    8. single or sole: the exclusive means of communication between two places.
    9. disposed to resist the admission of outsiders to association, intimacy, etc.: an exclusive circle of intimate friends.
    10. admitting only members of a socially restricted or very carefully selected group: an exclusive club.
    11. excluding or tending to exclude, as from use or possession: exclusive laws.
    12. Grammar . (of the first person plural) excluding the person or persons spoken to, as we in We'll see you later. Compare inclusive ( def. 4 ) .

    Can someone explain to me how Cryptic has done anything wrong? IF you want to argue it, the items still are EXCLUSIVE, they are only available through the C-Store. That's exclusive.

    For some reason you left out the rest of the definition:

    –noun
    13. Journalism . a piece of news, or the reporting of a piece of news, obtained by a newspaper or other news organization, along with the privilege of using it first.
    14. an exclusive right or privilege: to have an exclusive on providing fuel oil to the area.

    I think it is definition 14 that most people take issue with(though obviously not about oil). And if you scroll even further down the page:

    ex·clu·sive (ĭk-sklōō'sĭv)
    adj.
    1. Excluding or tending to exclude: exclusive barriers.
    2. Not allowing something else; incompatible: mutually exclusive conditions.
    3. Not divided or shared with others: exclusive publishing rights.
    4. Not accompanied by others; single or sole: your exclusive function.
    5. Complete; undivided: gained their exclusive attention.
    6. Not including the specified extremes or limits, but only the area between them: 20-25, exclusive; that is, 21, 22, 23 and 24.
    7. Excluding some or most, as from membership or participation: an exclusive club.
    8. Catering to a wealthy clientele; expensive: exclusive shops.
    9. Linguistics Of, relating to, or being a first person plural pronoun that excludes the addressee, such as we in the sentence Chris and I will be in town tomorrow, so we can stop by your office.

    n.
    1. A news item initially released to only one publication or broadcaster.
    2. An exclusive right or privilege, as to market a product.

    The very last definition is the one people are talking about.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Godimas wrote: »
    I'm not going to read 91 pages, so this may have been covered already, but if it wasn't... why not give all of us who bought the game multiple times to get the "special bonuses" (you have no idea how hard I worked to get the borg bridge officer) a bunch of C Store points to put towards future purchases? Nothing fancy, just here's a few thousand C Store points that we have essentially already paid for. I would be totally happy with that. Anyone else?

    Why don't you ask Cryptic for more character slots?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    CptRanger wrote: »
    And if you really want to start pulling out links, I suggest this one on the Federal Trade Commission website about advertising.
    http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/ecommerce/bus28.shtm

    The Federal Trade Commission Act allows the FTC to act in the interest of all consumers to prevent deceptive and unfair acts or practices. In interpreting Section 5 of the Act, the Commission has determined that a representation, omission or practice is deceptive if it is likely to:

    * mislead consumers and
    * affect consumers' behavior or decisions about the product or service.


    Now under the FTC rules, it says clearly by Cryptic employee's and on the packaging of the game that said items are EXCLUSIVE.

    Interesting considering this has already been covered. The use of the word exclusive was valid at the time the offer was made. The items you purchased were exclusive. There is no time limit and you weren't misled. Try again.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    For some reason you left out the rest of the definition:

    –noun
    13. Journalism . a piece of news, or the reporting of a piece of news, obtained by a newspaper or other news organization, along with the privilege of using it first.
    14. an exclusive right or privilege: to have an exclusive on providing fuel oil to the area.

    I think it is definition 14 that most people take issue with(though obviously not about oil).

    I'm confused. Are we suggesting that only one person has access to this exclusive item?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Godimas wrote: »
    I'm not going to read 91 pages, so this may have been covered already, but if it wasn't... why not give all of us who bought the game multiple times to get the "special bonuses" (you have no idea how hard I worked to get the borg bridge officer) a bunch of C Store points to put towards future purchases? Nothing fancy, just here's a few thousand C Store points that we have essentially already paid for. I would be totally happy with that. Anyone else?

    This was posted in another thread it's over cryptic isnt going to do anything

    Greetings, Thank you for your feedback. Each individual has the right to decide what they think is fair or unfair. While its generally the case that getting something "now" costs more than waiting a while, each person is entitled to their own perspective on how much time should pass before there is any change in price or exclusivity. When it comes to exclusivity, some people have said that one month of exclusivity is worth a particular investment, while others will say that it's only worth the money they spent if its exclusive forever. With these varying perspectives, it seems the most logical to take the middle ground, and make the change after a few months. As always, we'll make sure all the feedback we receive is escalated. Kind Regards, Cryptic Studios
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Why don't you ask Cryptic for more character slots?

    Only have the one character, and it's all I want :P What I was suggesting is something to end the complaints from everyone who wound up wasting money on getting all the neat extra stuff.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I'm confused. Are we suggesting that only one person has access to this exclusive item?

    I really cant say for sure, as I have not studied linguistics. However, I edited the post again, please see the update.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    For some reason you left out the rest of the definition:

    –noun
    13. Journalism . a piece of news, or the reporting of a piece of news, obtained by a newspaper or other news organization, along with the privilege of using it first.
    14. an exclusive right or privilege: to have an exclusive on providing fuel oil to the area.

    I think it is definition 14 that most people take issue with(though obviously not about oil).

    Even if we go by 14, the fact is that at the time of the offer the items were exclusive. At the time of the offer you could not obtain those items by other means. There was no lie there was no deception on the part of Cryptic.

    There is no where it is said that exclusive is forever.

    Part of the problem is people interpreted it to mean forever. Which it does not mean. There is some place, and I will have to find the case law on this but I remember running across it a long time ago where courts have ruled the even the offer has a time limit even if it isn't stated. I know it can't be considered permanent unless that become the regular price. I will have to look that up later.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I'm confused. Are we suggesting that only one person has access to this exclusive item?

    Yes, because one person can provide oil for an entire region. It's not a corporation which is a group of people, it's just one person. That's definitely what is being said here. Thank you for not trying to twist peoples words around into something that they're not saying to set up straw man arguments. It's much appreciated.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    AtomicFB wrote:
    Even if we go by 14, the fact is that at the time of the offer the items were exclusive.

    I actually agree. However, if a person is going to quote the definition they should at least include all of it. And please see that post again, as it has been updated to include more info.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I really cant say for sure, as I have not studied linguistics. However, I edited the post again, please see the update.

    I have great respect for you and I'm not trying to be a pain in the tribble, but doesn't that refer to Cryptic's right to the Star Trek Online IP? (irony is that there's a F2P in the works, but that's of topic)

    This thread is so epic! I LOVE IT
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I actually agree. However, if a person is going to quote the definition they should at least include all of it. And please see that post again, as it has been updated to include more info.

    Oh I did, as soon as I saw that you mentioned you updated it, I went back to look again.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I have great respect for you and I'm not trying to be a pain in the tribble, but doesn't that refer to Cryptic's right to the Star Trek Online IP? (irony is that there's a F2P in the works, but that's of topic)

    This thread is so epic! I LOVE IT

    I am not sure what point you are arguing from.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I have great respect for you and I'm not trying to be a pain in the tribble, but doesn't that refer to Cryptic's right to the Star Trek Online IP? (irony is that there's a F2P in the works, but that's of topic)

    This thread is so epic! I LOVE IT

    I really do not know, there are so many possibilities. Anyway, the best advice I have for anyone who thinks Cryptic has broken some law is to report them to the proper organization. If they have indeed broken some law, then they will be dealt with. However, complaining about it here(whether it is justified or not) isnt going to accomplish anything as far as the issue goes.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I really do not know, there are so many possibilities. Anyway, the best advice I have for anyone who thinks Cryptic has broken some law is to report them to the proper organization. If they have indeed broken some law, then they will be dealt with. However, complaining about it here(whether it is justified or not) isnt going to accomplish anything as far as the issue goes.

    Agree 100%, which is why this thread is so funny!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    What is left that is mine and mine only?? I am just curious what exclusives are still around. The liberated borg still is yes? Sadly I do not even play on one of my Borg Capts lately.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I'm confused. Are we suggesting that only one person has access to this exclusive item?

    Check the boldface in my sig. It's a simple concept really. I'm amazed that so many English speaking people have such a poor grip on their own language.

    Also, I don't think anyone here is saying they want to take legal action. However, there are quite a few of us who are VERY upset and feel they've been taken advantage of. That's not the way anyone would want to feel after spending their hard earned money.
This discussion has been closed.