I guess I could start a semantics battle of the word "discount". If you buy something and then the price goes up, did you get a discount? Does that depend on whether or not you knew the price would rise? If you buy stock and it goes up in price, did you get a discount?
Anyway, lets not actually start that. My point is that I didn't feel it was 'discounted' because I didn't know it would go up. But lets not fight over this petty-ness. What I really want to talk about is...
Next to that, in one year, six months from the release date, the subscribers will be on a trend to have been paying more than you. In that case, the veteran award seems logical. Don't be upset
You make an excellent point, sir. I would have NO problem whatsoever with it as a vet reward 1 year 6 months in. After that, I get the bonus of free gaming.
I guess I could start a semantics battle of the word "discount". If you buy something and then the price goes up, did you get a discount? Does that depend on whether or not you knew the price would rise? If you buy stock and it goes up in price, did you get a discount?
Anyway, lets not actually start that. My point is that I didn't feel it was 'discounted' because I didn't know it would go up. But lets not fight over this petty-ness. What I really want to talk about is...
You make an excellent point, sir. I would have NO problem whatsoever with it as a vet reward 1 year 6 months in. After that, I get the bonus of free gaming.
Very well put, dorko.
Yeah, I agree with you that a liberated borg right now would be... a bad idea. Hopefully this little drop into the whole MU thing will scare Cryptic out of thinking about the liberated borg. I don't agree with the players who are complaining about the MU ordeal, because I just can't trust the memory or logic of somebody who spends two hundred on a costume piece, but maybe it will keep the liberated Borg secure for now, and that one seems fair.
meh. i bought lifetime back when it was around $240 for the cheap price, extra 2 char slots, and the added perk of never having to pay a monthly fee long after $240 worth of playtime has ended. the way i see it, the "exclusives" for it were add-ons to the lifetime sub, and the savings was the main point.
I don't know what you guys are looking for. If you're looking for Cryptic to say sorry and give you money or something, you already know it ain't going to happen. You obviously aren't doing this for feedback purposes, because as it has been pointed out multiple times, this board may not be the best one.
I think you want sympathy for your anger. That's fine to a degree. I've made dumb purchases. I admitted to them being dumb purchases though and moved on. While it's true that as a result, I do not necessarily buy from the companies I felt upset with thereafter, that's all that needed to happen. Period.
But then, I don't feel sympathy at the same time. I've never bought something so that somebody else can't have it. I've also never spent two hundred dollars for an in-game costume. When the pre-order bonuses were announced, I researched it and bought the one I thought would make me the happiest. There was one other that I had thought of buying, and if I did, I wouldn't be upset at all right now. I spent the money, nobody made me, knowing full well that Cryptic had hinted at releasing them some three to six months down the road on the C-Store. I don't recall where I read that, but I believe it was in an interview.
I didn't spend money so that I could go around waiving my "you know what" in front of people and letting them know who is boss. That's really not necessary for my ego. So, I don't have sympathy for that. I don't have sympathy for people who bought an LTS with a minor benefit for the minor benefit. That's two hundred bucks for a costume piece. That's ridiculous and you know it. Perhaps that's why you guys are so angry is that so much of it is fueled by shame.
You guys who are upset didn't think this through and now your feeling it. Furtherrmore, the entire point of your rage is that you can no longer walk around and be all better than everyone else.
Yeah, I agree with you that a liberated borg right now would be... a bad idea. Hopefully this little drop into the whole MU thing will scare Cryptic out of thinking about the liberated borg. I don't agree with the players who are complaining about the MU ordeal, because I just can't trust the memory or logic of somebody who spends two hundred on a costume piece, but maybe it will keep the liberated Borg secure for now, and that one seems fair.
Sorry but you don't know Trekkies at all, then. We'll buy just about anything to support the IP.
Thousands bought the CO 6 mo sub for STO closed beta access alone and people bought the LTS for CB and the MU Uni's. Marketing targeted trekkies specifically for those reasons and it turned out to be so successful they had to change closed beta access plans which caused the fiasco.
Anyone who wanted MU Uni's to be sold while trying to hold onto keeping Liberated Borg exclusive is not being fair period. Both were tied to LT Subs.
I'm having trouble understanding what exactly it is you're taking issue with.
I don't trust Cryptic's advertising anymore and do not recommend that others trust them either until Cryptic starts playing fair. You take issue with that and then tell me that I shouldn't trust Cryptic?
Just because you can interpret a word to mean something does not mean that it is right or not deceptive to deliberately do so. It's called "talking out of both sides of your face" to do so. It is deceptive. It's not a lie, but it is deceptive. I'm not saying "Cryptic lied" I'm saying "Cryptic is deceptive". You can even tell the truth and be deceptive. Lets say you want to deceive someone and that person knows you're going to deceive them. They ask you "which way to the store?" and you point to the store knowing full well that they'll go in any direction other than the store. If one can use the truth to deceive, one can certainly use weasel words to deceive.
I feel deceived. You take issue with that? Fine. but first tell me in a convincing fashion why I should not feel deceived by the fact that I took the advertisements at face value and got burned.
And again, I don't care that the stuff is in CStore, I care that there's a systemic problem with the people writing the advertisements being deliberately... how shall we say cryptic?
Seriously, are you even listening to what you're saying? This is where Orwell comes in. It's not politics. I'm seriously ashamed to have to explain this to you, but the part of Orwell's writings I was referencing was the part about holding in one's mind two different and completely incongruous ideas simultaneously. I really don't know why you and others are so dead set on misinterpreting everything I say and taking it out of context.
Either you're just TRIBBLE around and taking issue for the sake of taking issue or you aren't actually considering what is being said by either you OR anyone else before you decide to place your opposition on the table.
To summarize what I'm seeing here, it's a bunch "Yes, you're right. I agree. Cryptic isn't to be taken at face value. For that reason we must be at odds with eachother." Agreeing with someone is the absolute most absurd reason to disagree with them. Agreeing is arguing. Another Orwellian moment there.
No, what I am taking issue with is you, and the others like you, getting all bent about the "exclusives" being on the C-store. What? You didn't expect this to happen? Seriously? You really cannot be that naive, I would hope. It was pretty obvious, not only from a common sense perspective, but in the fact that Cryptic as much as said so. The items in question were not an unlimited exclusive... that was never stated, ANYWHERE. You read that into it. YOU. Not them, YOU.
I am not sure what part of they WERE exclusive, that you don't understand... They WERE exclusive, and now they are not. They were exclusive for several months. Now they are not. Exclusivity works that way all over the business world. Ever buy a cell phone? They always go exclusive for a while, then everyone gets them. Ever see a TV show? They go exclusive for a while then get syndicated. It's how business works. Companies want exclusives to lure in their slice of the customer base. If you couldn't see that coming, then you either live in a third world country and have never been subjected to capitalism or you are just plain stupid. End of discussion.
I'm not defending Cryptic here. Really. I can't stand the company. I have nothing nice to say about them at all. The only reason I deal with them is because I love Star Trek. If not for that, then they could die a withering painful death as far as I am concerned. But blaming someone else for your own stupidity isn't cool. It happens too much in the US. You are responsible for how you spend your own money. You and ONLY YOU. If you don't read the fine print, or you don't research your purchase and get burned for being stupid then you deserve what you get. Pretty simple. It's called personal responsibility. Get some and stop whining.
Honestly I think they whole thing boils down to this:
You're just ****ed off you spent so much money in such a frivolous manner. That's really the bottom line here. You were impatient and spent a lot more money on things than any rational individual would have. You didn't think out your purchase well, and now you are regretting it. To compensate for your lack of prudence you want everyone who was smart/patient enough to wait, not to have your "precious" unless they have to be just as stupid as you, and your ilk are and pay $60 for a $3 bauble. Buyer's remorse and a whole lot of immaturity.
I been watin for cryptic to do this! now I aint gotta spend an arm and a leg to get the other stuff i want I can take the cash and put it into things that would have cost me a paycheck early on although i do believe that some things should stay exclusive, the pet shuttle, red matter capacitor, and iberated borg.
If you wanted to make a complaint you had all weekend to post in the OFFICIAL sticky thread. If you didn't or were unable to do so then that is indeed on you. Doing it now only serves to be argumentative and disruptive.
Yet, lets go out on a limb and say you were unable to do so, so you decided to complain in this thread. Ok, well for one this isn't an official complaint thread. This is just another thread on the forums. What I do find interesting is that you claim you don't have to prove anything to anyone. Well then don't make unsubstantiated claims. Don't make claims that require proof.
Also you could easily email Cryptic with your complaint and avoid the forums altogether and save yourself the trouble of having to make these posts.
IF you come onto a forum and make a claim you had better be ready to back up that claim or defend that claim as you just put it out for public consumption. As far as some of us not having any concern over the issue. A lot of us are concerned because this issue has affected the community at large and as such we are indeed concerned and affected.
However, have a doughnut you will feel better.
Firstly no, I was away over the weekend and gee a whole weekend for feedback eh?! I dont visit these forums on a daily or even weekly basis. This whole C-store issue came out of the blue. So I am making my concerns herd now along with other likeminded individuals
Secondly I said I dont have anything to prove to YOU (a generalisation for the forum trolls) referring to those heckling who are NOT in fact Cryptic mods or employees so therefore have no bearing on my complaint. Its not down to you to respond on Cryptics behalf. This is a complaint dialogue we would like to have with them as agreived (perspective) parties.
Thirdly make a statement on here to Cryptic about my complaint is not disruptive or argumentative. People telling me I am wrong and should accept the decision IS being argumentative.
FInally, you say you have concern because it affects the community yet you are one of the symptoms of the problem. Rather than accept peoples comments & statements for Cryptic (whether are right, wrong, valid or not) you then go on to express your opinion over them as being correct and indeed antagonise members of the community thus fueling the flames. Thats not a having a concern its called dissention.
And whilst Im on the subject
Flaming, Trolling, Spamming
Posts and/or private messages that, in any manner whether directly or indirectly, involve any of the following activities may be subject to an infraction.
* Creation of undue discontent on the forums.
* Creation of disturbances in forum threads, such as picking fights, making off topic posts that derail the thread, insulting other posters, etc.
It seems a number of posters, yourself included, seem to fall into this category.. A LOT. Happening to glance at other forums too seems you and a number of what I will now call 'notorious' posters seem to like to harass, over opionate and flame across many threads. I am really surprised the mods havent stepped in before.
At the company I work for, I'm often having to moderate arguments between the project manager and her underlings. She'll say something, someone will get offended, and instead of apologising, she simply says "I disagree". That's her bandaid for everything. She argues principal, they argue that they feel offended. Sometimes I think she's incapable of apologizing for anything. Oh look out for Cat, she's infallible, even when she fouls up she' still in the right.
What I'm getting at here is that I have to tell her at least five times a week "your logic does not matter, this person feels slighted and is pretty upset about it. For the sake of maintaining a happy office, just make amends already". While I'm the second largest stock owner and sometimes I want to replace her, but that's Bob's decision, not mine.
The point is that if someone feels slighted, which is an emotion, all the logic and well reasoned arguments in the world will fall on deaf ears. We've actually lost two extremely talented individuals because of her butting heads with people who take issue with the way she runs the project.
So you have the same job I do!
On a more serious note: I really do understand why you feel the way you do, and I'm sorry we have made you feel that way. It's never our intent to make our players unhappy. This move was made to boost the overall satisfaction of the vast majority of our customers. Sadly, in this case, it also made you, and several others very unhappy.
this is a perfect example of heavy handed TRIBBLE that also happens in the irc channel to spin, limit anti-cryptic posts. i acknowledge that some posts need to be edited out for personal attacks but there are far too many posts edited because they make a good point that cryptic are acting like evil corporations...
sad really. this is trek and this behavior is about as far opposite of what roddenberry envisioned as the trek world as you can get...
1) Any posts which I've edited were due to personal attacks and trolling. Certain members of the community had a great time trolling this thread last night. Those posts have been removed. If I see more of it, I will issue bans, and no amount of exclusive doughnuts will stop me from doing so. :mad: If I was removing negative sentiments from the forums, I'd just delete threads, and issue bans to unhappy people.
That's not how we do business at Cryptic. We value your feedback, even your negative feedback. Your feedback is what makes us as a company continue to improve. Not only ourselves, but also our products. Your insinuating that we would do business otherwise is feedback which leads me to believe we need to continue to improve our communications, and I will work towards that end.
2) Discussing moderator activity is against the forum usage guidelines, it normally comes with an automatic week long suspension from the forums. This is your warning. Please take heed of it.
If Cryptic where to do anything about these issues, they should have made all bonuses non-exclusive across the board. Instead, they cherry picked the ones they could make the most money from. They refuse to comment on making everything available in the C-Store (actually they said some will remain exclusive), giving the middle finger to some customers while rewarding others.
It's not our intent to give the middle finger to any one Mirror. Not only myself, but all of Cryptic values each and every customer we have. We simply wouldn't exist as a company if that weren't true. Releasing these items on the C-store was done to appease an overwhelming number of players asking us to do so.
However, as with all things in life, it came with a cost. No one here is happy that some players are upset by this. However, we have a responsibility to listen to our players feedback, and to provide you with what you request when we can.
There was (and remains) a large demand for these items from you all (meaning, our player base). I understand why some of you feel upset about this. We feel that this was the right thing to do for the community as a whole. I hope you all can appreciate that, and accept that we're really not out to slight the people who ultimately let us do the awesome things we do.
pre-order LTS = $240 + borg BO
post-release LTS = $300 - Borg BO
For someone who claims to read all the documentation behind something you have something horribly HORRIBLY wrong here.
It's not borg BO, it's liberated borg captain. As in it is you character, the one that when you hit space bar, it jumps. That character, that's the one that's borg, not a bridge officer
To Stormshade, I understand. I really do. It doesn't change the fact that trust has been broken. I'm not leaving. I'm sticking around and hoping things improve. But at this point I can't bring myself to really log into the game. I'm running around Norrath right now hunting down feysteel clusters. I've got five more to go. The sense of accomplishment from gathering 10 rare metal clusters to have mastercrafted gear made is something that I rather enjoy about the EQ series.
This game is too acquisitive and I'm all acquired out. So yeah, I'm going to be all inquisitive over at EQ2 and watch STO from the sidelines for a while.
The way I figure it.... this move of migrating things from the exclusive over to the C-Store makes me think Cryptic already has a game plan in place to send this game into "Free 2 Play" zone in the next year...
Call it a hunch. But I feel it coming, just like I felt DDO and LoTHR.....
Holy cow... that was a lot of posts to read through!
So you have the same job I do!
On a more serious note: I really do understand why you feel the way you do, and I'm sorry we have made you feel that way. It's never our intent to make our players unhappy. This move was made to boost the overall satisfaction of the vast majority of our customers. Sadly, in this case, it also made you, and several others very unhappy.
1) Any posts which I've edited were due to personal attacks and trolling. Certain members of the community had a great time trolling this thread last night. Those posts have been removed. If I see more of it, I will issue bans, and no amount of exclusive doughnuts will stop me from doing so. :mad: If I was removing negative sentiments from the forums, I'd just delete threads, and issue bans to unhappy people.
That's not how we do business at Cryptic. We value your feedback, even your negative feedback. Your feedback is what makes us as a company continue to improve. Not only ourselves, but also our products. Your insinuating that we would do business otherwise is feedback which leads me to believe we need to continue to improve our communications, and I will work towards that end.
2) Discussing moderator activity is against the forum usage guidelines, it normally comes with an automatic week long suspension from the forums. This is your warning. Please take heed of it.
It's not our intent to give the middle finger to any one Mirror. Not only myself, but all of Cryptic values each and every customer we have. We simply wouldn't exist as a company if that weren't true. Releasing these items on the C-store was done to appease an overwhelming number of players asking us to do so.
However, as with all things in life, it came with a cost. No one here is happy that some players are upset by this. However, we have a responsibility to listen to our players feedback, and to provide you with what you request when we can.
There was (and remains) a large demand for these items from you all (meaning, our player base). I understand why some of you feel upset about this. We feel that this was the right thing to do for the community as a whole. I hope you all can appreciate that, and accept that we're really not out to slight the people who ultimately let us do the awesome things we do.
Thanks,
Stormshade
How can you expect us to trust anything you say now?
Cryptic just tossed its reputation.
Also what about that huge thread asking for the galaxy-x to be acquirable without having to do the referrals? You're picking and choosing based on what is going to make you more money. You already have the CO lifers money, so their rage over this is a non issue, but the galaxv-x might make you more money on new accounts so it stays exclusive? That makes this seem even more like a cash grab.
Holy cow... that was a lot of posts to read through!
So you have the same job I do!
On a more serious note: I really do understand why you feel the way you do, and I'm sorry we have made you feel that way. It's never our intent to make our players unhappy. This move was made to boost the overall satisfaction of the vast majority of our customers. Sadly, in this case, it also made you, and several others very unhappy.
1) Any posts which I've edited were due to personal attacks and trolling. Certain members of the community had a great time trolling this thread last night. Those posts have been removed. If I see more of it, I will issue bans, and no amount of exclusive doughnuts will stop me from doing so. :mad: If I was removing negative sentiments from the forums, I'd just delete threads, and issue bans to unhappy people.
That's not how we do business at Cryptic. We value your feedback, even your negative feedback. Your feedback is what makes us as a company continue to improve. Not only ourselves, but also our products. Your insinuating that we would do business otherwise is feedback which leads me to believe we need to continue to improve our communications, and I will work towards that end.
2) Discussing moderator activity is against the forum usage guidelines, it normally comes with an automatic week long suspension from the forums. This is your warning. Please take heed of it.
It's not our intent to give the middle finger to any one Mirror. Not only myself, but all of Cryptic values each and every customer we have. We simply wouldn't exist as a company if that weren't true. Releasing these items on the C-store was done to appease an overwhelming number of players asking us to do so.
However, as with all things in life, it came with a cost. No one here is happy that some players are upset by this. However, we have a responsibility to listen to our players feedback, and to provide you with what you request when we can.
There was (and remains) a large demand for these items from you all (meaning, our player base). I understand why some of you feel upset about this. We feel that this was the right thing to do for the community as a whole. I hope you all can appreciate that, and accept that we're really not out to slight the people who ultimately let us do the awesome things we do.
Thanks,
Stormshade
Thank You Stormshade. http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=2761055&postcount=732
I was one of those who was waiting for them in the C-Store and you made me and ALOT of Subs very very happy!:D
And I am also sadden by the negative response in the Fleet I am in and from those I play with and respect in the game. *sigh*
Holy cow... that was a lot of posts to read through!
So you have the same job I do!
On a more serious note: I really do understand why you feel the way you do, and I'm sorry we have made you feel that way. It's never our intent to make our players unhappy. This move was made to boost the overall satisfaction of the vast majority of our customers. Sadly, in this case, it also made you, and several others very unhappy.
1) Any posts which I've edited were due to personal attacks and trolling. Certain members of the community had a great time trolling this thread last night. Those posts have been removed. If I see more of it, I will issue bans, and no amount of exclusive doughnuts will stop me from doing so. :mad: If I was removing negative sentiments from the forums, I'd just delete threads, and issue bans to unhappy people.
That's not how we do business at Cryptic. We value your feedback, even your negative feedback. Your feedback is what makes us as a company continue to improve. Not only ourselves, but also our products. Your insinuating that we would do business otherwise is feedback which leads me to believe we need to continue to improve our communications, and I will work towards that end.
2) Discussing moderator activity is against the forum usage guidelines, it normally comes with an automatic week long suspension from the forums. This is your warning. Please take heed of it.
It's not our intent to give the middle finger to any one Mirror. Not only myself, but all of Cryptic values each and every customer we have. We simply wouldn't exist as a company if that weren't true. Releasing these items on the C-store was done to appease an overwhelming number of players asking us to do so.
However, as with all things in life, it came with a cost. No one here is happy that some players are upset by this. However, we have a responsibility to listen to our players feedback, and to provide you with what you request when we can.
There was (and remains) a large demand for these items from you all (meaning, our player base). I understand why some of you feel upset about this. We feel that this was the right thing to do for the community as a whole. I hope you all can appreciate that, and accept that we're really not out to slight the people who ultimately let us do the awesome things we do.
Thanks,
Stormshade
wow...wondering were you guys have been? The past four days on the forums, too many trollers and ogres have eating the threads completely...seriously, personal attacks and nasty accusation that doesn't do anything for the rest of the forum users.
Anyhow....so when are you appointed trip to E3 so we can expect feedback on what's happening there or maybe send us some updates once in awhile on the forums or somethings.
Laters.
PS. There are still some threads that are the same as this...so you might want to check them out and let the posters know...well technically, over six threads running on the same thing gets tiring and losing the goal of helping others and improving things.
Also what about that huge thread asking for the galaxy-x to be acquirable without having to do the referrals? You're picking and choosing based on what is going to make you more money. You already have the CO lifers money, so their rage over this is a non issue, but the galaxv-x might make you more money on new accounts so it stays exclusive? That makes this seem even more like a cash grab.
You know... I hate to say it... but I find myself reluctantly coming around to this. I, too, would like an answer on this topic, as well as *broken record mode* what the criteria are for what got put onto the C-Store.
How can you expect us to trust anything you say now?
Cryptic just tossed its reputation.
Also what about that huge thread asking for the galaxy-x to be acquirable without having to do the referrals? You're picking and choosing based on what is going to make you more money. You already have the CO lifers money, so their rage over this is a non issue, but the galaxv-x might make you more money on new accounts so it stays exclusive? That makes this seem even more like a cash grab.
If the Gal-X were a 5 month old item, you might have a point. However, since it isnt, you dont. Come back in 5 months if the Gal-X isnt in the C-store, then make that argument since it will be the same amount of time that passed before these items were added.
If the Gal-X were a 5 month old item, you might have a point. However, since it isnt, you dont. Come back in 5 months if the Gal-X isnt in the C-store, then make that argument since it will be the same amount of time that passed before these items were added.
If the Gal-X were a 5 month old item, you might have a point. However, since it isnt, you dont. Come back in 5 months if the Gal-X isnt in the C-store, then make that argument since it will be the same amount of time that passed before these items were added.
Nagus, it isn't about time, it's about $$$. I know as a Ferengi you can appreciate that.
People wanted those things because they were rare. Now they're not rare, so the demand will plummet. Making the players happy by deexclusiving (is that word?) the exclusives is chasing a goalpost that always retreats at the same rate you run after it. Now you're going to have all the other exclusives being begged for. Galaxy X, the one through-the-walls sniper rifle, liberated borg, etc.
They see these things and get jealous. When these things are no longer rare, they are no longer envious and the point to making them easier to obtain is killed. That's the key right there, what's been done essentially trivializes the investments made by the people who got the stuff prior to it going into the cstore.
These are not demands. Simply idle musings.
Mind you, I'm not saying these things shouldn't be made not-exclusive. What I am saying is that exclusives are a hairy business. If you're going to have any kind of clout with the players when selling exclusives, you need to commit yourself to putting your foot down and saying "No, these are exclusive dammit." But things that are exclusive should have no gameplay advantage and not be possible to make central to the core of a player character. Like the goggles in STO. Either that or continue to provide the same hoops to jump through to obtain these exclusives and stick to it.
I would personally put Liberated Borg captains up as a bonus to ALL STO lifetimers. Stop selling the MU Uniforms and reopen the CO LTS accounts. Put the MU uniforms back on the CO LTS. Increase the prices of the other previously exclusive CStore items to the cost of a game and include a free month with the purchase of the item. Also, do revenue sharing with the appropriate store for the customer's geographical region whose exclusives those are because they are now losing money because of the CStore.
People wanted those things because they were rare. Now they're not rare, so the demand will plummet. Making the players happy by deexclusiving (is that word?) the exclusives is chasing a goalpost that always retreats at the same rate you run after it. Now you're going to have all the other exclusives being begged for. Galaxy X, the one through-the-walls sniper rifle, liberated borg, etc.
They see these things and get jealous. When these things are no longer rare, they are no longer envious and the point to making them easier to obtain is killed. That's the key right there, what's been done essentially trivializes the investments made by the people who got the stuff prior to it going into the cstore.
These are not demands. Simply idle musings.
Mind you, I'm not saying these things shouldn't be made not-exclusive. What I am saying is that exclusives are a hairy business. If you're going to have any kind of clout with the players when selling exclusives, you need to commit yourself to putting your foot down and saying "No, these are exclusive dammit." But things that are exclusive should have no gameplay advantage and not be possible to make central to the core of a player character. Like the goggles in STO. Either that or continue to provide the same hoops to jump through to obtain these exclusives and stick to it.
I would personally put Liberated Borg captains up as a bonus to ALL lifetimers. Stop selling the MU Uniforms and reopen the CO LTS accounts. Put the MU uniforms back on the CO LTS. Increase the prices of the other previously exclusive CStore items to the cost of a game and include a free month with the purchase of the item. Also, do revenue sharing with the appropriate store for the customer's geographical region whose exclusives those are because they are now losing money because of the CStore.
I still say that if they put the Borg Tribble on the C-Store, then it really is all about the money.... And hence why I am asking for it.
You know what would make me happy? A special title that says "This person ordered the CO LTS back when it was being used to promote STO." as well as "This person ordered the STO LTS back before the game came out." and a third title that says "This person ordered both prior". Those aren't the actual titles, of course...
That's all I want is something little trinket that identifies me as someone who blew a wad of cash. It may sound vain, maybe I am vain. But I'm allowed to indulge myself in minor vanities. At least I'm not vain enough to not be treating people with civility and respect, right?
People wanted those things because they were rare. Now they're not rare, so the demand will plummet. Making the players happy by deexclusiving (is that word?) the exclusives is chasing a goalpost that always retreats at the same rate you run after it. Now you're going to have all the other exclusives being begged for. Galaxy X, the one through-the-walls sniper rifle, liberated borg, etc.
They see these things and get jealous. When these things are no longer rare, they are no longer envious and the point to making them easier to obtain is killed. That's the key right there, what's been done essentially trivializes the investments made by the people who got the stuff prior to it going into the cstore.
These are not demands. Simply idle musings.
Mind you, I'm not saying these things shouldn't be made not-exclusive. What I am saying is that exclusives are a hairy business. If you're going to have any kind of clout with the players when selling exclusives, you need to commit yourself to putting your foot down and saying "No, these are exclusive dammit." But things that are exclusive should have no gameplay advantage and not be possible to make central to the core of a player character. Like the goggles in STO. Either that or continue to provide the same hoops to jump through to obtain these exclusives and stick to it.
I would personally put Liberated Borg captains up as a bonus to ALL lifetimers. Stop selling the MU Uniforms and reopen the CO LTS accounts. Put the MU uniforms back on the CO LTS. Increase the prices of the other previously exclusive CStore items to the cost of a game and include a free month with the purchase of the item. Also, do revenue sharing with the appropriate store for the customer's geographical region whose exclusives those are because they are now losing money because of the CStore.
Not to quibble here -- mostly I just want to know the damn critieria that Cryptic (oh, gods, I'll just drop it) -- but what about the people who've already bought the MU unis? Does Cryptic take it away from them and refund their C-Points? Won't that cause even more anger, in part from players who aren't privy to this debate? And the people who have bought the items for a lower price than the increased price you propose here, what happens to their items? Do they get refunds as well, or 'credit' towards the items they purchased?
Er, bt as for the revenue sharing... that doesn't sound feasible, considering the playerbase is global. I don't think that's terribly reasonable. Or even humanly possible. How do you judge which store a person may or may not have purchased the game from, and which gets the revenue sharing?
You know what would make me happy? A special title that says "This person ordered the CO LTS back when it was being used to promote STO." as well as "This person ordered the STO LTS back before the game came out." and a third title that says "This person ordered both prior". Those aren't the actual titles, of course...
That's all I want is something little trinket that identifies me as someone who blew a wad of cash. It may sound vain, maybe I am vain. But I'm allowed to indulge myself in minor vanities. At least I'm not vain enough to not be treating people with civility and respect, right?
Until they add that title, you couldt type out a little speech and copy/paste it when you run around the SB so everyone can read
If your saying that the people who wanted those items arent going to want them anymore because they now have them...yeah, of course
No, what I'm saying is that now it doesn't taste quite as sweet anymore. That is the majority who have not are jealous of the few who have. So when it's suddenly trivial to have, people don't care as much about not having.
That is, the grass is always greener on the other side, but once the fence is torn down, there is no other side and you have to fin a new fence to envy the land across from.
It's not our intent to give the middle finger to any one Mirror. Not only myself, but all of Cryptic values each and every customer we have. We simply wouldn't exist as a company if that weren't true. Releasing these items on the C-store was done to appease an overwhelming number of players asking us to do so.
However, as with all things in life, it came with a cost. No one here is happy that some players are upset by this. However, we have a responsibility to listen to our players feedback, and to provide you with what you request when we can.
There was (and remains) a large demand for these items from you all (meaning, our player base). I understand why some of you feel upset about this. We feel that this was the right thing to do for the community as a whole. I hope you all can appreciate that, and accept that we're really not out to slight the people who ultimately let us do the awesome things we do.
Thanks,
Stormshade
Excuse me? What overwhelming response from the players?
My biggest issue with the whole things is for example, I bought the Champs Lifetime Subscription mainly for the Mirror Universe outfits. I played Champs Online beta, and knew it wouldn't be worth a lifetime subscription. So the 150 bucks I spent on the MU outfit is now less then 10 bucks for everyone. I bought a copy from Amazon.com for the Borg Bridge officer. I bought a copy from Direct2Drive.com for their exclusive items, both were 50 bucks. I also bought the Collectors Edition from Gamestop so I could have the exclusive Connie, and the Collectors Edition outfits that came with it.
I payed over 550 dollars for everything, in good faith, and now anyone can purchase the same items for less then 40 dollars. Granted I'd still pay for the STO Lifetime subscription, and 1 copy of the game, so that's 250 bucks I would have spent.
In good faith, by the words of Cryptic that items would remain exclusive, I wasted 300 bucks. And you waltz in and tell us that the majority of the players were demanding these items? I may not post much sir, but I lurk fairly often and there has NEVER been 'overwhelming demand' for these items.
There were never any polls, never asked of the community what they thought of it or anything. You haven't even mentioned if there is going to be some sort of compensation or ANYTHING to those who were blindsided by this.
And it's not about compensation. It's about a company you have stood by for YEARS, lieing to you, and then having the same company turn around and call you a 'valued customer'. It's two faced and in poor judgment. It's also called fraud and deceptive business practices.
I said this in another thread, but I think I'll say it again in this one.
You are not entitled to restitution just because something you already paid for is being offered to others via a different method and/or for a different amount than how you obtained it.
That is, the grass is always greener on the other side, but once the fence is torn down, there is no other side and you have to fin a new fence to envy the land across from.
Actually the grass is always greener over the septic tank... no fence needed.
Comments
Anyway, lets not actually start that. My point is that I didn't feel it was 'discounted' because I didn't know it would go up. But lets not fight over this petty-ness. What I really want to talk about is... You make an excellent point, sir. I would have NO problem whatsoever with it as a vet reward 1 year 6 months in. After that, I get the bonus of free gaming.
Very well put, dorko.
Yeah, I agree with you that a liberated borg right now would be... a bad idea. Hopefully this little drop into the whole MU thing will scare Cryptic out of thinking about the liberated borg. I don't agree with the players who are complaining about the MU ordeal, because I just can't trust the memory or logic of somebody who spends two hundred on a costume piece, but maybe it will keep the liberated Borg secure for now, and that one seems fair.
*applauds* Well said!!!
Sorry but you don't know Trekkies at all, then.
Thousands bought the CO 6 mo sub for STO closed beta access alone and people bought the LTS for CB and the MU Uni's. Marketing targeted trekkies specifically for those reasons and it turned out to be so successful they had to change closed beta access plans which caused the fiasco.
Anyone who wanted MU Uni's to be sold while trying to hold onto keeping Liberated Borg exclusive is not being fair period. Both were tied to LT Subs.
No, what I am taking issue with is you, and the others like you, getting all bent about the "exclusives" being on the C-store. What? You didn't expect this to happen? Seriously? You really cannot be that naive, I would hope. It was pretty obvious, not only from a common sense perspective, but in the fact that Cryptic as much as said so. The items in question were not an unlimited exclusive... that was never stated, ANYWHERE. You read that into it. YOU. Not them, YOU.
I am not sure what part of they WERE exclusive, that you don't understand... They WERE exclusive, and now they are not. They were exclusive for several months. Now they are not. Exclusivity works that way all over the business world. Ever buy a cell phone? They always go exclusive for a while, then everyone gets them. Ever see a TV show? They go exclusive for a while then get syndicated. It's how business works. Companies want exclusives to lure in their slice of the customer base. If you couldn't see that coming, then you either live in a third world country and have never been subjected to capitalism or you are just plain stupid. End of discussion.
I'm not defending Cryptic here. Really. I can't stand the company. I have nothing nice to say about them at all. The only reason I deal with them is because I love Star Trek. If not for that, then they could die a withering painful death as far as I am concerned. But blaming someone else for your own stupidity isn't cool. It happens too much in the US. You are responsible for how you spend your own money. You and ONLY YOU. If you don't read the fine print, or you don't research your purchase and get burned for being stupid then you deserve what you get. Pretty simple. It's called personal responsibility. Get some and stop whining.
Honestly I think they whole thing boils down to this:
You're just ****ed off you spent so much money in such a frivolous manner. That's really the bottom line here. You were impatient and spent a lot more money on things than any rational individual would have. You didn't think out your purchase well, and now you are regretting it. To compensate for your lack of prudence you want everyone who was smart/patient enough to wait, not to have your "precious" unless they have to be just as stupid as you, and your ilk are and pay $60 for a $3 bauble. Buyer's remorse and a whole lot of immaturity.
but hey tahts just my opinion!
Firstly no, I was away over the weekend and gee a whole weekend for feedback eh?! I dont visit these forums on a daily or even weekly basis. This whole C-store issue came out of the blue. So I am making my concerns herd now along with other likeminded individuals
Secondly I said I dont have anything to prove to YOU (a generalisation for the forum trolls) referring to those heckling who are NOT in fact Cryptic mods or employees so therefore have no bearing on my complaint. Its not down to you to respond on Cryptics behalf. This is a complaint dialogue we would like to have with them as agreived (perspective) parties.
Thirdly make a statement on here to Cryptic about my complaint is not disruptive or argumentative. People telling me I am wrong and should accept the decision IS being argumentative.
FInally, you say you have concern because it affects the community yet you are one of the symptoms of the problem. Rather than accept peoples comments & statements for Cryptic (whether are right, wrong, valid or not) you then go on to express your opinion over them as being correct and indeed antagonise members of the community thus fueling the flames. Thats not a having a concern its called dissention.
And whilst Im on the subject
Flaming, Trolling, Spamming
Posts and/or private messages that, in any manner whether directly or indirectly, involve any of the following activities may be subject to an infraction.
* Creation of undue discontent on the forums.
* Creation of disturbances in forum threads, such as picking fights, making off topic posts that derail the thread, insulting other posters, etc.
It seems a number of posters, yourself included, seem to fall into this category.. A LOT. Happening to glance at other forums too seems you and a number of what I will now call 'notorious' posters seem to like to harass, over opionate and flame across many threads. I am really surprised the mods havent stepped in before.
So you have the same job I do!
On a more serious note: I really do understand why you feel the way you do, and I'm sorry we have made you feel that way. It's never our intent to make our players unhappy. This move was made to boost the overall satisfaction of the vast majority of our customers. Sadly, in this case, it also made you, and several others very unhappy.
1) Any posts which I've edited were due to personal attacks and trolling. Certain members of the community had a great time trolling this thread last night. Those posts have been removed. If I see more of it, I will issue bans, and no amount of exclusive doughnuts will stop me from doing so. :mad: If I was removing negative sentiments from the forums, I'd just delete threads, and issue bans to unhappy people.
That's not how we do business at Cryptic. We value your feedback, even your negative feedback. Your feedback is what makes us as a company continue to improve. Not only ourselves, but also our products. Your insinuating that we would do business otherwise is feedback which leads me to believe we need to continue to improve our communications, and I will work towards that end.
2) Discussing moderator activity is against the forum usage guidelines, it normally comes with an automatic week long suspension from the forums. This is your warning. Please take heed of it.
It's not our intent to give the middle finger to any one Mirror. Not only myself, but all of Cryptic values each and every customer we have. We simply wouldn't exist as a company if that weren't true. Releasing these items on the C-store was done to appease an overwhelming number of players asking us to do so.
However, as with all things in life, it came with a cost. No one here is happy that some players are upset by this. However, we have a responsibility to listen to our players feedback, and to provide you with what you request when we can.
There was (and remains) a large demand for these items from you all (meaning, our player base). I understand why some of you feel upset about this. We feel that this was the right thing to do for the community as a whole. I hope you all can appreciate that, and accept that we're really not out to slight the people who ultimately let us do the awesome things we do.
Thanks,
Stormshade
For someone who claims to read all the documentation behind something you have something horribly HORRIBLY wrong here.
It's not borg BO, it's liberated borg captain. As in it is you character, the one that when you hit space bar, it jumps. That character, that's the one that's borg, not a bridge officer
To Stormshade, I understand. I really do. It doesn't change the fact that trust has been broken. I'm not leaving. I'm sticking around and hoping things improve. But at this point I can't bring myself to really log into the game. I'm running around Norrath right now hunting down feysteel clusters. I've got five more to go. The sense of accomplishment from gathering 10 rare metal clusters to have mastercrafted gear made is something that I rather enjoy about the EQ series.
This game is too acquisitive and I'm all acquired out. So yeah, I'm going to be all inquisitive over at EQ2 and watch STO from the sidelines for a while.
Call it a hunch. But I feel it coming, just like I felt DDO and LoTHR.....
How can you expect us to trust anything you say now?
Cryptic just tossed its reputation.
Also what about that huge thread asking for the galaxy-x to be acquirable without having to do the referrals? You're picking and choosing based on what is going to make you more money. You already have the CO lifers money, so their rage over this is a non issue, but the galaxv-x might make you more money on new accounts so it stays exclusive? That makes this seem even more like a cash grab.
Thank You Stormshade.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=2761055&postcount=732
I was one of those who was waiting for them in the C-Store and you made me and ALOT of Subs very very happy!:D
And I am also sadden by the negative response in the Fleet I am in and from those I play with and respect in the game. *sigh*
wow...wondering were you guys have been? The past four days on the forums, too many trollers and ogres have eating the threads completely...seriously, personal attacks and nasty accusation that doesn't do anything for the rest of the forum users.
Anyhow....so when are you appointed trip to E3 so we can expect feedback on what's happening there or maybe send us some updates once in awhile on the forums or somethings.
Laters.
PS. There are still some threads that are the same as this...so you might want to check them out and let the posters know...well technically, over six threads running on the same thing gets tiring and losing the goal of helping others and improving things.
You know... I hate to say it... but I find myself reluctantly coming around to this.
If the Gal-X were a 5 month old item, you might have a point. However, since it isnt, you dont. Come back in 5 months if the Gal-X isnt in the C-store, then make that argument since it will be the same amount of time that passed before these items were added.
We've had the mirror unis for a month.
Nagus, it isn't about time, it's about $$$. I know as a Ferengi you can appreciate that.
People wanted those things because they were rare. Now they're not rare, so the demand will plummet. Making the players happy by deexclusiving (is that word?) the exclusives is chasing a goalpost that always retreats at the same rate you run after it. Now you're going to have all the other exclusives being begged for. Galaxy X, the one through-the-walls sniper rifle, liberated borg, etc.
They see these things and get jealous. When these things are no longer rare, they are no longer envious and the point to making them easier to obtain is killed. That's the key right there, what's been done essentially trivializes the investments made by the people who got the stuff prior to it going into the cstore.
These are not demands. Simply idle musings.
Mind you, I'm not saying these things shouldn't be made not-exclusive. What I am saying is that exclusives are a hairy business. If you're going to have any kind of clout with the players when selling exclusives, you need to commit yourself to putting your foot down and saying "No, these are exclusive dammit." But things that are exclusive should have no gameplay advantage and not be possible to make central to the core of a player character. Like the goggles in STO. Either that or continue to provide the same hoops to jump through to obtain these exclusives and stick to it.
I would personally put Liberated Borg captains up as a bonus to ALL STO lifetimers. Stop selling the MU Uniforms and reopen the CO LTS accounts. Put the MU uniforms back on the CO LTS. Increase the prices of the other previously exclusive CStore items to the cost of a game and include a free month with the purchase of the item. Also, do revenue sharing with the appropriate store for the customer's geographical region whose exclusives those are because they are now losing money because of the CStore.
I still say that if they put the Borg Tribble on the C-Store, then it really is all about the money.... And hence why I am asking for it.
If your saying that the people who wanted those items arent going to want them anymore because they now have them...yeah, of course
That's all I want is something little trinket that identifies me as someone who blew a wad of cash. It may sound vain, maybe I am vain. But I'm allowed to indulge myself in minor vanities. At least I'm not vain enough to not be treating people with civility and respect, right?
Not to quibble here -- mostly I just want to know the damn critieria that Cryptic (oh, gods, I'll just drop it) -- but what about the people who've already bought the MU unis? Does Cryptic take it away from them and refund their C-Points? Won't that cause even more anger, in part from players who aren't privy to this debate? And the people who have bought the items for a lower price than the increased price you propose here, what happens to their items? Do they get refunds as well, or 'credit' towards the items they purchased?
Er, bt as for the revenue sharing... that doesn't sound feasible, considering the playerbase is global. I don't think that's terribly reasonable. Or even humanly possible. How do you judge which store a person may or may not have purchased the game from, and which gets the revenue sharing?
Until they add that title, you couldt type out a little speech and copy/paste it when you run around the SB so everyone can read
No, what I'm saying is that now it doesn't taste quite as sweet anymore. That is the majority who have not are jealous of the few who have. So when it's suddenly trivial to have, people don't care as much about not having.
That is, the grass is always greener on the other side, but once the fence is torn down, there is no other side and you have to fin a new fence to envy the land across from.
Excuse me? What overwhelming response from the players?
My biggest issue with the whole things is for example, I bought the Champs Lifetime Subscription mainly for the Mirror Universe outfits. I played Champs Online beta, and knew it wouldn't be worth a lifetime subscription. So the 150 bucks I spent on the MU outfit is now less then 10 bucks for everyone. I bought a copy from Amazon.com for the Borg Bridge officer. I bought a copy from Direct2Drive.com for their exclusive items, both were 50 bucks. I also bought the Collectors Edition from Gamestop so I could have the exclusive Connie, and the Collectors Edition outfits that came with it.
I payed over 550 dollars for everything, in good faith, and now anyone can purchase the same items for less then 40 dollars. Granted I'd still pay for the STO Lifetime subscription, and 1 copy of the game, so that's 250 bucks I would have spent.
In good faith, by the words of Cryptic that items would remain exclusive, I wasted 300 bucks. And you waltz in and tell us that the majority of the players were demanding these items? I may not post much sir, but I lurk fairly often and there has NEVER been 'overwhelming demand' for these items.
There were never any polls, never asked of the community what they thought of it or anything. You haven't even mentioned if there is going to be some sort of compensation or ANYTHING to those who were blindsided by this.
And it's not about compensation. It's about a company you have stood by for YEARS, lieing to you, and then having the same company turn around and call you a 'valued customer'. It's two faced and in poor judgment. It's also called fraud and deceptive business practices.
And while I'm not the one to ever say this, I will say it now. I honestly hope that Cryptic Studios and Atari are sued for deceptive business practices.
http://polaris.umuc.edu/~tgrodsky/admn687/articles/kmarple.html
You are not entitled to restitution just because something you already paid for is being offered to others via a different method and/or for a different amount than how you obtained it.
Actually the grass is always greener over the septic tank... no fence needed.