But, you know, whatever. It's your time, it's your opinion, you have as much a right to vent and rant as anyone in these forums. As I have..
Thats all well and good but it seems some people on here have no concern over the decision. That is their perogative and saying their ok with it is fine.
What I find obnoxious is people trying to voice their own concerns on here only to be heckled and flamed by the people who have no concern.
If you have no concern why are you here? You arent mods, you arent cryptic employees so no one has anything to prove to you. If you are still talking on here then it can only be for disruption and being argumentative. Perhaps you would keep quiet now... after all, you have NO concern over the decision.
Perhaps leave the thread to those who do wish to make a vocal complaint and not have their complaint drowned out by innane twaddle.
Curious. I was thinking the same thing about some threads yesterday and they got closed not long after. I must be telepathic!
well please start on this one, i`m starting to think people are here just for a good arguement (in the grand scheme of things this isn`t that bad after all its only a blasted game)
Those that invested heavily in cryptic gave them a lot of rope with the server crashes etc. and then they hung all of us with it
Heh. I'm only laughing here out of sympathy. If there's anything more frustrating than server connectivity issues after a brand new game launches, I'd love to hear about it.
Server connectivity is kind of what drove me away from Champions. My main character got stuck in Lemuria. I could not get it moved.
A couple of weeks went by and I realized that I had stopped even logging on to my alts. And then realized I didn't have a desire to play the game anymore and hadn't been and was ok with that. And left.
Server connection is important. I grant you that. Very important. You definitely have my sympathy for the issues experienced when this game was young.
Heh. I'm only laughing here out of sympathy. If there's anything more frustrating than server connectivity issues after a brand new game launches, I'd love to hear about it.
Server connectivity is kind of what drove me away from Champions. My main character got stuck in Lemuria. I could not get it moved.
A couple of weeks went by and I realized that I had stopped even logging on to my alts. And then realized I didn't have a desire to play the game anymore and hadn't been and was ok with that. And left.
Server connection is important. I grant you that. Very important. You definitely have my sympathy for the issues experienced when this game was young.
I didn't even complain about it I trusted cryptic to make it right I guess thats why this is so frustrating cryptic won't say one way or the other I know they apologized but that doesn't answer my question as I have stated once I get an answer that'll be the end of it for me I will not keep coming here and pushing just would like to know
If you're a CO Lifer than you also have all the benefits of being a CO Lifer on Champions Online.
Retro Future Costume Set (CO)
Art Deco Costume Set (CO)
Club Caprice VIP Lounge Access w/ associated benefits (CO)
In-game/Forum Title "Vanguard"
In-game Chat Channel
Front of Queue Support
Vanguard Costume Piece Symbol
You also get the Mirror Universe Uniforms for Star Trek Online Free, and you received a guaranteed slot into the STO Beta. Plus, you never have to pay another subscription fee to Champions Online.
Anything involving personal opinions (or feedback) is subjective. Remember Loops/Rolls vs. Tall Ship pre-beta? It's a matter of opinion. I love the tall ship style of space combat we have in STO, but how many people were upset when we announced we wouldn't allow you to do loops and barrel rolls? Would STO be a better game today if you could do a Split S in your Galaxy Class or Negh'Var? I personally don't think so, and plenty of others agree with me on that. But for some people, they believe that yes, it would.
There's a large number of people who are very happy with these additions to the C-store. There's also a very vocal group of people who are not happy with them.
I can say based on several different factors that I "know" this was the right decision. It doesn't change the way you, or anyone else "feels" about it though. In this case, no one is wrong, so I say that we feel this way, so I don't make anyone think I'm telling them they're wrong.
You are not wrong for supporting the changes.
JacobFlowers is not wrong for being against the changes. (That yellow font on the other hand... I jest Jacob, no offense meant. )
Thanks,
Stormshade
OK, every item in the game is exclusive since they are only offered in game. Every item is also unique because they only exist in STO.
And, remember, you're unique. Just like everybody else.
As opposed to businesses that don't? Or ignoring the customers that wanted the items but didn't want to purchase a lifetime subscription or extraneous box copies?
So, is the next step to cater to the customers that want the items but don't want to purchase them for Cryptic Points?
Sure there is. Do you enjoy playing Star Trek Online? Would you enjoy playing it with your friends? Then consider referring them.
If you do, the real real reward is not some in-game bonus item that we offer you. It's the time you get to spend sharing your hobby with your friend. That's why you should use the referral program, not because you want some in-game perk, but because you want to spend more time with your friend.
If any of those items ever do make it to the C-store, then you would still be able to earn them for free, rather than paying real money for them, using the referral program.
Now, back to the title. I'm just as likely to purchase a lifetime subscription to a game as I was before.
I like the game, moreso when I stop reading the forums (but, then again, I also like Champions, WoW, CoX, LotRO, DDO, running in the morning, lifting weights, and going to work - hell, I don't even mind the dentist). I do wish there were more to the game and look forward to the next, uhm, season. I'm glad that everyone gets to experience the items in the game. I'm also disappointed in the fiasco and how it's handled. I know, I know - caveat emptor.
Now, I know some will say I'm just a troll living in my mom's basement trying to feel better about myself by "showing-off" pixels in a game. Thy rapier wit has surely cut me to the quick.
Thats all well and good but it seems some people on here have no concern over the decision. That is their perogative and saying their ok with it is fine.
What I find obnoxious is people trying to voice their own concerns on here only to be heckled and flamed by the people who have no concern.
If you have no concern why are you here? You arent mods, you arent cryptic employees so no one has anything to prove to you. If you are still talking on here then it can only be for disruption and being argumentative. Perhaps you would keep quiet now... after all, you have NO concern over the decision.
Perhaps leave the thread to those who do wish to make a vocal complaint and not have their complaint drowned out by innane twaddle.
If you wanted to make a complaint you had all weekend to post in the OFFICIAL sticky thread. If you didn't or were unable to do so then that is indeed on you. Doing it now only serves to be argumentative and disruptive.
Yet, lets go out on a limb and say you were unable to do so, so you decided to complain in this thread. Ok, well for one this isn't an official complaint thread. This is just another thread on the forums. What I do find interesting is that you claim you don't have to prove anything to anyone. Well then don't make unsubstantiated claims. Don't make claims that require proof.
Also you could easily email Cryptic with your complaint and avoid the forums altogether and save yourself the trouble of having to make these posts.
IF you come onto a forum and make a claim you had better be ready to back up that claim or defend that claim as you just put it out for public consumption. As far as some of us not having any concern over the issue. A lot of us are concerned because this issue has affected the community at large and as such we are indeed concerned and affected.
I didn't even complain about it I trusted cryptic to make it right I guess thats why this is so frustrating cryptic won't say one way or the other I know they apologized but that doesn't answer my question as I have stated once I get an answer that'll be the end of it for me I will not keep coming here and pushing just would like to know
Honestly I think you got all the answers your gonna get in the post from Stormshade. I don't think they are going to give out any compensation. If that is the question you are asking. By all means, don't let me stop you. You have been one of the least offensive posters and I have no complaint with you. I am just saying I think you go all the answer your gonna get.
I didn't even complain about it I trusted cryptic to make it right I guess thats why this is so frustrating cryptic won't say one way or the other I know they apologized but that doesn't answer my question as I have stated once I get an answer that'll be the end of it for me I will not keep coming here and pushing just would like to know
I mentioned this to Blackavaar, and I do mean this ...
While I may not share your opinion on the issue ... I do think that continuing to give feedback is definitely something you should do if you feel very strongly about this.
It may run the risk of being moderated (only because the mods like to move and/or consolidate threads they feel are redundant). But if you feel this is a very important issue to you, then I say keep at it. Even in the face of whatever others say ... give them your feedback. Even when it seems like they aren't listening ... give them your feedback.
I think even when it feels like you're being ignored, your feedback goes a lot farther with this company than other companies.
And I think if you keep at it, you may get a response. May get an olive branch. Or it may factor into future decisions.
Of course it might not. That's always a possibility.
But don't stop trying.
Even if everyone else disagrees with you, or tries to argue with you, if it's an important issue, don't be deterred.
For the most part, I tend to try and participate in discussion. Sometimes I TRIBBLE up and get involved in arguments. That's my fault. It's never my intention, but sometimes I mess up. But I do feel that if this issue is very important to you, that arguments shouldn't distract from your feedback.
I know a lot of posts in the monster thread were kind of flippant when stating that (and this is a paraphrase) the Devs caved to people asking for this change, so why wouldn't they cave to people asking for it not to change ...
But I think the heart of that statement is a valuable insight. Removing the negative spin on the comment you're left with a very interesting observation. The devs do listen. So you should not be deterred from telling them how you feel.
You might just get something out of it if you keep at it long enough. Or you might be continually frustrated. But you won't know until you try. So I say if it's something you feel that strongly about ... don't give up.
Ok, so having been refuted at a number of stages and in a number of threads, you now wish to claim that you "only" wanted to say that customer loyalty has "gone downhill.
If you review every post I've made on the matter, you will find those words to be true. I have not made any demands and my entire position has been about customer loyalty. You can try to twist my words around into weaseling all you want, but it won't work.
As for being refuted on a number of threads. Does the number of times someone is refuted count as being correct or incorrect to you? If so, I posit that your criteria for what constitutes correct information is inherently flawed. By the way, the people who have refuted me have been refuted a number of times as well.
Honestly, I don't see why people are so intent on trying to disprove that I'm not going to be spending as much money on Cryptic now as I have in the past. Nor do I recommend that others take what Cryptic says at face value. And yet people are dead set on disproving this? Seriously, what? It honestly seems to me that people like you, Joe, are only concerned with picking a fight and causing flames.
Could it be that they aren't actually stopping to consider the content of what I've been saying, they're just taking issue with my taking issue with Cryptic's marketing practices? Seriously, is that what you and others are actually upset at me about? That's rather silly. I'm just pointing out the practical consequences of Cryptic's actions and you're trying to logic your way out of that.
As I told another person, customer loyalty isn't bound by well reasoned arguments, it's bound by the emotion of the lay person. No matter you try to play armchair logician about the subject, you will never convince me that I should take Cryptic at face value. Infact, your arguments only reinforce the loss of loyalty that I feel. It seems to me that we both agree on the same thing: don't take Cryptic at face value. Yet instead of agreeing, you take issue. I'm rather baffled.
As I told another person, customer loyalty isn't bound by well reasoned arguments, it's bound by the emotion of the lay person. No matter you try to play armchair logician about the subject, you will never convince me that I should take Cryptic at face value. Infact, your arguments only reinforce the loss of loyalty that I feel. It seems to me that we both agree on the same thing: don't take Cryptic at face value. Yet instead of agreeing, you take issue. I'm rather baffled.
I agree that customer loyalty and satisfaction is an emotional construct. Perhaps your words got lost in the rabble. Some people don't want to argue the point or the principle. They want to make the claim they were lied to and misled. The fact of the matter they weren't lied to and misled. However, they are free to FEEL that way and I can certainly understand why they would feel that way. Several of us, including Joe (Not trying to speak for Joe so please don't misunderstand) have said that we can sympathize with that feeling and can even see your qualms about it. That isn't what is driving the argument though. What is driving it is that some people feel this need to attempt to prove an emotion and it's just not there.
I agree that customer loyalty and satisfaction is an emotional construct. Perhaps your words got lost in the rabble. Some people don't want to argue the point or the principle. They want to make the claim they were lied to and misled. The fact of the matter they weren't lied to and misled. However, they are free to FEEL that way and I can certainly understand why they would feel that way. Several of us, including Joe (Not trying to speak for Joe so please don't misunderstand) have said that we can sympathize with that feeling and can even see your qualms about it. That isn't what is driving the argument though. What is driving it is that some people feel this need to attempt to prove an emotion and it's just not there.
At the company I work for, I'm often having to moderate arguments between the project manager and her underlings. She'll say something, someone will get offended, and instead of apologising, she simply says "I disagree". That's her bandaid for everything. She argues principal, they argue that they feel offended. Sometimes I think she's incapable of apologizing for anything. Oh look out for Cat, she's infallible, even when she fouls up she' still in the right.
What I'm getting at here is that I have to tell her at least five times a week "your logic does not matter, this person feels slighted and is pretty upset about it. For the sake of maintaining a happy office, just make amends already". While I'm the second largest stock owner and sometimes I want to replace her, but that's Bob's decision, not mine.
The point is that if someone feels slighted, which is an emotion, all the logic and well reasoned arguments in the world will fall on deaf ears. We've actually lost two extremely talented individuals because of her butting heads with people who take issue with the way she runs the project.
At the company I work for, I'm often having to moderate arguments between the project manager and her underlings. She'll say something, someone will get offended, and instead of apologising, she simply says "I disagree". That's her bandaid for everything. She argues principal, they argue that they feel offended. Sometimes I think she's incapable of apologizing for anything. Oh look out for Cat, she's infallible, even when she fouls up she' still in the right.
What I'm getting at here is that I have to tell her at least five times a week "your logic does not matter, this person feels slighted and is pretty upset about it. For the sake of maintaining a happy office, just make amends already". While I'm the second largest stock owner and sometimes I want to replace her, but that's Bob's decision, not mine.
The point is that if someone feels slighted, which is an emotion, all the logic and well reasoned arguments in the world will fall on deaf ears. We've actually lost two extremely talented individuals because of her butting heads with people who take issue with the way she runs the project.
I am not sure what you are getting at. One one hand you have people who feel slighted in this case. Fine, some of us understand why they feel that way. On the other hand you have some people who feel slighted but are determined to prove it is Cryptic's fault. That is where some of this process breaks down. Coming into a thread and saying I feel slighted by Cryptic because they put these items in the c-store is one thing. Saying Cryptic lied to me and mislead me is another. One needs proof and one doesn't.
There are a few who have said it the first way but there are more who have done it a second way. I took your OP as to saying that you won't buy a LTS again because you felt what Cryptic did was wrong. Ok, fine. Zero issue there. However others like Dryan were saying they were lied to and misled and can't prove that they were lied to or misled. There is where the difference is.
I am not sure what you are getting at. One one hand you have people who feel slighted in this case. Fine, some of us understand why they feel that way. On the other hand you have some people who feel slighted but are determined to prove it is Cryptic's fault. That is where some of this process breaks down. Coming into a thread and saying I feel slighted by Cryptic because they put these items in the c-store is one thing. Saying Cryptic lied to me and mislead me is another. One needs proof and one doesn't.
There are a few who have said it the first way but there are more who have done it a second way. I took your OP as to saying that you won't buy a LTS again because you felt what Cryptic did was wrong. Ok, fine. Zero issue there. However others like Dryan were saying they were lied to and misled and can't prove that they were lied to or misled. There is where the difference is.
However, it is not unreasonable to feel misled or deceived for taking Cryptic at face value and being burned in the process. If we give them enough rope to hang us with, it does not justify them hanging us with it. The excess rope could be put to better use than that.
All the fine print in the world is just weaseling out of what's said at face value. This is a practice that is known as "speaking out of both sides of your mouth" which is also known as "extremely deceptive". The majority of consumers look only at the propaganda and not the fine print. Nor should they have to look at the fine print for everything. If you looked at the fine print for absolutely everything involving everything before you purchase anything, you would not have much time left in a day.
Simply put, you can argue the semantics of the propaganda or argue the fine print all you want. It does not change this immutable truth: if you cannot take what a person or company says at face value, then they are deceptive.
However, it is not unreasonable to feel misled or deceived for taking Cryptic at face value. All the fine print in the world is just weasel words. The majority of consumers look only at the propaganda and not the fine print. Nor should they have to look at the fine print for everything. If you looked at the fine print for absolutely everything involving everything before you purchase anything, you would not have much time left in a day.
Simply put, you can argue the semantics of the propaganda or argue the fine print all you want. It does not change this immutable truth: if you cannot take what a person or company says at face value, then they are deceptive.
Actually, it is unreasonable to feel lied to or misled. It's not semantics to say "exclusive" does not mean forever. That's just how it is. Taking it at face value meant that at that time, the only way to get that item was to buy some given item. No fine print required.
What IS reasonable to say you feel they should have waited longer to put things in the C-store. Or not put certain things in the C-store at all. That's perfectly fair game.
Actually, it is unreasonable to feel lied to or misled. It's not semantics to say "exclusive" does not mean forever. That's just how it is. Taking it at face value meant that at that time, the only way to get that item was to buy some given item. No fine print required.
What IS reasonable to say you feel they should have waited longer to put things in the C-store. Or not put certain things in the C-store at all. That's perfectly fair game.
You say it's not semantics and then argue semantics.
"We have an exclusive review of the game!" This means that particular review will not be found anywhere else.
In common usage, the word "exclusive" does not mean "exclusive for the moment". In common usage, what means "exclusive for the moment" is "exclusive for the moment".
Cryptic could have been more explicit in the way they worded things. Instead they chose to word them in a fashion that, to the lay person, to the general audience they were advertising it to means something entirely different than you're trying to twist it around to mean.
Why is this so difficult to comprehend? I'm sorry but you are flat out wrong. It is not unreasonable to feel mislead by someone who said something that means something entirely different at face value than what ended up happening.
Answer this. Seriously, answer this and nothing else: If you cannot trust what someone says at value value, then why should you trust them?
Digging through fine print is the act of someone who does not trust the company to not pull stuff like this. Examine what you're saying here. On one hand you're saying "you can trust Cryptic" on the other hand you're saying "think about everything Cryptic says as if they're speaking out of both sides of their mouth." These two statements are only compatible in an Orwellian society. Is that seriously what you're advocating? Lies are Truth. Slavery is Freedom. War is Peace. Is that what you're saying?
You say it's not semantics and then argue semantics.
"We have an exclusive review of the game!" This means that particular review will not be found anywhere else.
In common usage, the word "exclusive" does not mean "exclusive for the moment". In common usage, what means "exclusive for the moment" is "exclusive for the moment".
Cryptic could have been more explicit in the way they worded things. Instead they chose to word them in a fashion that, to the lay person, to the general audience they were advertising it to means something entirely different than you're trying to twist it around to mean.
Why is this so difficult to comprehend? I'm sorry but you are flat out wrong. It is not unreasonable to feel mislead by someone who said something that means something entirely different at face value than what ended up happening.
Answer this. Seriously, answer this and nothing else: If you cannot trust what someone says at value value, then why should you trust them?
It's not difficult to comprehend. We all comprehend it perfectly. The problem is that our comprehension does not make it any less wrong.
It is not semantics to understand the actual meaning of a word. There is nothing in the definition of the word "exclusive" that says that the degree of exclusivity will remain static until the end of time. It was exclusive. It still is exclusive, just not as exclusive as it was when you got it.
There's nothing to twist about that. I took them at face value. They told me that if I bought product A, they'd give me a unique thing that was not currently available anywhere else. They never said that I would never have another shot at it. (In some cases they actually said otherwise.)
It also defies all common sense that these things would never end up in the C-store ever.
If you feel lied to or misled, it's because you assumed facts not in evidence. You saw a word and you assigned a timeline to it that the word does not say exists and the advertising did not say exists. That is not their fault.
All the fine print in the world is just weaseling out of what's said at face value. This is a practice that is known as "speaking out of both sides of your mouth" which is also known as "extremely deceptive". The majority of consumers look only at the propaganda and not the fine print. Nor should they have to look at the fine print for everything. If you looked at the fine print for absolutely everything involving everything before you purchase anything, you would not have much time left in a day.
Actually I read the fine print on EVERYTHING I agree to. It's a practice that has saved me thousands of dollars, kept me out of bad leases and saved me from huge financial burdens from excessive interest. It's something any intelligent consumer should do. To not read it, is to invite disaster. Like the saying goes... Caveat Emptor.
You cannot blame a company for making money as long as it's legal and ethical (despite what you may think there is nothing unethical about selling the exclusives. They were exclusive for the last several months, so the meaning of the term has been satisfied. It's your fault if you misinterpreted it to mean something else.) You might as well blame grass for growing or dogs for barking or birds for flying... it's what they do. The fine print is part of business, like it or not. It's been that way for as long as man has been practicing commerce.
Count it as a lesson and learn to read the fine print. :rolleyes:
Oh, and I have plenty of time left in my day, thank you very much.
In common usage, the word "exclusive" does not mean "exclusive for the moment". In common usage, what means "exclusive for the moment" is "exclusive for the moment".
That's the catch... in "common usage" not contract or business language. This is a business, not a common person, so logically you should interpret it in the business usage.
Digging through fine print is the act of someone who does not trust the company to not pull stuff like this. Examine what you're saying here. On one hand you're saying "you can trust Cryptic" on the other hand you're saying "think about everything Cryptic says as if they're speaking out of both sides of their mouth." These two statements are only compatible in an Orwellian society. Is that seriously what you're advocating? Lies are Truth. Slavery is Freedom. War is Peace. Is that what you're saying?
No, it's the act of someone protecting themselves from a corporate entity that has no regard for them personally aside from the money they pay to them.
Also, what the heck is with the Orwelian TRIBBLE? This isn't politics, it's a game... You are seriously blowing this out of proportion and that proves it... :rolleyes:
This whole situation just shows why buying a product FOR the exclusives rather than buying for the PRODUCT is never a good thing. I knew I was going to buy the game, so I just choose the package that came with the items I wanted. Now that they've released them, I havent lost anything because I was buying the game, not the items. I also bought a LT sub, and though they have not currently released the Borg character, even if they do I will not have lost anything because I will always have exactly what I paid for: the LT sub itself.
Nagus don't use things such as "reality" or "logical problem solving" or any of these other rational assumptions adults over the age of 18 should know....
Comments
Thats all well and good but it seems some people on here have no concern over the decision. That is their perogative and saying their ok with it is fine.
What I find obnoxious is people trying to voice their own concerns on here only to be heckled and flamed by the people who have no concern.
If you have no concern why are you here? You arent mods, you arent cryptic employees so no one has anything to prove to you. If you are still talking on here then it can only be for disruption and being argumentative. Perhaps you would keep quiet now... after all, you have NO concern over the decision.
Perhaps leave the thread to those who do wish to make a vocal complaint and not have their complaint drowned out by innane twaddle.
well please start on this one, i`m starting to think people are here just for a good arguement (in the grand scheme of things this isn`t that bad after all its only a blasted game)
Heh. I'm only laughing here out of sympathy. If there's anything more frustrating than server connectivity issues after a brand new game launches, I'd love to hear about it.
Server connectivity is kind of what drove me away from Champions. My main character got stuck in Lemuria. I could not get it moved.
A couple of weeks went by and I realized that I had stopped even logging on to my alts. And then realized I didn't have a desire to play the game anymore and hadn't been and was ok with that. And left.
Server connection is important. I grant you that. Very important. You definitely have my sympathy for the issues experienced when this game was young.
I didn't even complain about it I trusted cryptic to make it right I guess thats why this is so frustrating cryptic won't say one way or the other I know they apologized but that doesn't answer my question as I have stated once I get an answer that'll be the end of it for me I will not keep coming here and pushing just would like to know
OK, every item in the game is exclusive since they are only offered in game. Every item is also unique because they only exist in STO.
And, remember, you're unique. Just like everybody else.
So, is the next step to cater to the customers that want the items but don't want to purchase them for Cryptic Points?
This reminds me of a Dilbert comic.
Now, back to the title. I'm just as likely to purchase a lifetime subscription to a game as I was before.
I like the game, moreso when I stop reading the forums (but, then again, I also like Champions, WoW, CoX, LotRO, DDO, running in the morning, lifting weights, and going to work - hell, I don't even mind the dentist). I do wish there were more to the game and look forward to the next, uhm, season. I'm glad that everyone gets to experience the items in the game. I'm also disappointed in the fiasco and how it's handled. I know, I know - caveat emptor.
Now, I know some will say I'm just a troll living in my mom's basement trying to feel better about myself by "showing-off" pixels in a game. Thy rapier wit has surely cut me to the quick.
-Auspice
If you wanted to make a complaint you had all weekend to post in the OFFICIAL sticky thread. If you didn't or were unable to do so then that is indeed on you. Doing it now only serves to be argumentative and disruptive.
Yet, lets go out on a limb and say you were unable to do so, so you decided to complain in this thread. Ok, well for one this isn't an official complaint thread. This is just another thread on the forums. What I do find interesting is that you claim you don't have to prove anything to anyone. Well then don't make unsubstantiated claims. Don't make claims that require proof.
Also you could easily email Cryptic with your complaint and avoid the forums altogether and save yourself the trouble of having to make these posts.
IF you come onto a forum and make a claim you had better be ready to back up that claim or defend that claim as you just put it out for public consumption. As far as some of us not having any concern over the issue. A lot of us are concerned because this issue has affected the community at large and as such we are indeed concerned and affected.
However, have a doughnut you will feel better.
Honestly I think you got all the answers your gonna get in the post from Stormshade. I don't think they are going to give out any compensation. If that is the question you are asking. By all means, don't let me stop you. You have been one of the least offensive posters and I have no complaint with you. I am just saying I think you go all the answer your gonna get.
I mentioned this to Blackavaar, and I do mean this ...
While I may not share your opinion on the issue ... I do think that continuing to give feedback is definitely something you should do if you feel very strongly about this.
It may run the risk of being moderated (only because the mods like to move and/or consolidate threads they feel are redundant). But if you feel this is a very important issue to you, then I say keep at it. Even in the face of whatever others say ... give them your feedback. Even when it seems like they aren't listening ... give them your feedback.
I think even when it feels like you're being ignored, your feedback goes a lot farther with this company than other companies.
And I think if you keep at it, you may get a response. May get an olive branch. Or it may factor into future decisions.
Of course it might not. That's always a possibility.
But don't stop trying.
Even if everyone else disagrees with you, or tries to argue with you, if it's an important issue, don't be deterred.
For the most part, I tend to try and participate in discussion. Sometimes I TRIBBLE up and get involved in arguments. That's my fault. It's never my intention, but sometimes I mess up. But I do feel that if this issue is very important to you, that arguments shouldn't distract from your feedback.
I know a lot of posts in the monster thread were kind of flippant when stating that (and this is a paraphrase) the Devs caved to people asking for this change, so why wouldn't they cave to people asking for it not to change ...
But I think the heart of that statement is a valuable insight. Removing the negative spin on the comment you're left with a very interesting observation. The devs do listen. So you should not be deterred from telling them how you feel.
You might just get something out of it if you keep at it long enough. Or you might be continually frustrated. But you won't know until you try. So I say if it's something you feel that strongly about ... don't give up.
If you review every post I've made on the matter, you will find those words to be true. I have not made any demands and my entire position has been about customer loyalty. You can try to twist my words around into weaseling all you want, but it won't work.
As for being refuted on a number of threads. Does the number of times someone is refuted count as being correct or incorrect to you? If so, I posit that your criteria for what constitutes correct information is inherently flawed. By the way, the people who have refuted me have been refuted a number of times as well.
Honestly, I don't see why people are so intent on trying to disprove that I'm not going to be spending as much money on Cryptic now as I have in the past. Nor do I recommend that others take what Cryptic says at face value. And yet people are dead set on disproving this? Seriously, what? It honestly seems to me that people like you, Joe, are only concerned with picking a fight and causing flames.
Could it be that they aren't actually stopping to consider the content of what I've been saying, they're just taking issue with my taking issue with Cryptic's marketing practices? Seriously, is that what you and others are actually upset at me about? That's rather silly. I'm just pointing out the practical consequences of Cryptic's actions and you're trying to logic your way out of that.
As I told another person, customer loyalty isn't bound by well reasoned arguments, it's bound by the emotion of the lay person. No matter you try to play armchair logician about the subject, you will never convince me that I should take Cryptic at face value. Infact, your arguments only reinforce the loss of loyalty that I feel. It seems to me that we both agree on the same thing: don't take Cryptic at face value. Yet instead of agreeing, you take issue. I'm rather baffled.
I agree that customer loyalty and satisfaction is an emotional construct. Perhaps your words got lost in the rabble. Some people don't want to argue the point or the principle. They want to make the claim they were lied to and misled. The fact of the matter they weren't lied to and misled. However, they are free to FEEL that way and I can certainly understand why they would feel that way. Several of us, including Joe (Not trying to speak for Joe so please don't misunderstand) have said that we can sympathize with that feeling and can even see your qualms about it. That isn't what is driving the argument though. What is driving it is that some people feel this need to attempt to prove an emotion and it's just not there.
I'd say better than 50/50
Huh? Work is the absolute best time to post on the forums. When you get home its much more fun to play games.
I'm at work 24/7, so I wouldn't know.
I know the feeling some days.
At the company I work for, I'm often having to moderate arguments between the project manager and her underlings. She'll say something, someone will get offended, and instead of apologising, she simply says "I disagree". That's her bandaid for everything. She argues principal, they argue that they feel offended. Sometimes I think she's incapable of apologizing for anything. Oh look out for Cat, she's infallible, even when she fouls up she' still in the right.
What I'm getting at here is that I have to tell her at least five times a week "your logic does not matter, this person feels slighted and is pretty upset about it. For the sake of maintaining a happy office, just make amends already". While I'm the second largest stock owner and sometimes I want to replace her, but that's Bob's decision, not mine.
The point is that if someone feels slighted, which is an emotion, all the logic and well reasoned arguments in the world will fall on deaf ears. We've actually lost two extremely talented individuals because of her butting heads with people who take issue with the way she runs the project.
Own my own software business, so for me it's actually true. :eek:
I am not sure what you are getting at. One one hand you have people who feel slighted in this case. Fine, some of us understand why they feel that way. On the other hand you have some people who feel slighted but are determined to prove it is Cryptic's fault. That is where some of this process breaks down. Coming into a thread and saying I feel slighted by Cryptic because they put these items in the c-store is one thing. Saying Cryptic lied to me and mislead me is another. One needs proof and one doesn't.
There are a few who have said it the first way but there are more who have done it a second way. I took your OP as to saying that you won't buy a LTS again because you felt what Cryptic did was wrong. Ok, fine. Zero issue there. However others like Dryan were saying they were lied to and misled and can't prove that they were lied to or misled. There is where the difference is.
However, it is not unreasonable to feel misled or deceived for taking Cryptic at face value and being burned in the process. If we give them enough rope to hang us with, it does not justify them hanging us with it. The excess rope could be put to better use than that.
All the fine print in the world is just weaseling out of what's said at face value. This is a practice that is known as "speaking out of both sides of your mouth" which is also known as "extremely deceptive". The majority of consumers look only at the propaganda and not the fine print. Nor should they have to look at the fine print for everything. If you looked at the fine print for absolutely everything involving everything before you purchase anything, you would not have much time left in a day.
Simply put, you can argue the semantics of the propaganda or argue the fine print all you want. It does not change this immutable truth: if you cannot take what a person or company says at face value, then they are deceptive.
Actually, it is unreasonable to feel lied to or misled. It's not semantics to say "exclusive" does not mean forever. That's just how it is. Taking it at face value meant that at that time, the only way to get that item was to buy some given item. No fine print required.
What IS reasonable to say you feel they should have waited longer to put things in the C-store. Or not put certain things in the C-store at all. That's perfectly fair game.
You say it's not semantics and then argue semantics.
"We have an exclusive review of the game!" This means that particular review will not be found anywhere else.
In common usage, the word "exclusive" does not mean "exclusive for the moment". In common usage, what means "exclusive for the moment" is "exclusive for the moment".
Cryptic could have been more explicit in the way they worded things. Instead they chose to word them in a fashion that, to the lay person, to the general audience they were advertising it to means something entirely different than you're trying to twist it around to mean.
Why is this so difficult to comprehend? I'm sorry but you are flat out wrong. It is not unreasonable to feel mislead by someone who said something that means something entirely different at face value than what ended up happening.
Answer this. Seriously, answer this and nothing else: If you cannot trust what someone says at value value, then why should you trust them?
Digging through fine print is the act of someone who does not trust the company to not pull stuff like this. Examine what you're saying here. On one hand you're saying "you can trust Cryptic" on the other hand you're saying "think about everything Cryptic says as if they're speaking out of both sides of their mouth." These two statements are only compatible in an Orwellian society. Is that seriously what you're advocating? Lies are Truth. Slavery is Freedom. War is Peace. Is that what you're saying?
It's not difficult to comprehend. We all comprehend it perfectly. The problem is that our comprehension does not make it any less wrong.
It is not semantics to understand the actual meaning of a word. There is nothing in the definition of the word "exclusive" that says that the degree of exclusivity will remain static until the end of time. It was exclusive. It still is exclusive, just not as exclusive as it was when you got it.
There's nothing to twist about that. I took them at face value. They told me that if I bought product A, they'd give me a unique thing that was not currently available anywhere else. They never said that I would never have another shot at it. (In some cases they actually said otherwise.)
It also defies all common sense that these things would never end up in the C-store ever.
If you feel lied to or misled, it's because you assumed facts not in evidence. You saw a word and you assigned a timeline to it that the word does not say exists and the advertising did not say exists. That is not their fault.
I have said its not the best TREK has to offer, but its the only TREK we have right now.
The cynical part of my mind went there as well. Glad to see I'm not alone in that.
J.
Actually I read the fine print on EVERYTHING I agree to. It's a practice that has saved me thousands of dollars, kept me out of bad leases and saved me from huge financial burdens from excessive interest. It's something any intelligent consumer should do. To not read it, is to invite disaster. Like the saying goes... Caveat Emptor.
You cannot blame a company for making money as long as it's legal and ethical (despite what you may think there is nothing unethical about selling the exclusives. They were exclusive for the last several months, so the meaning of the term has been satisfied. It's your fault if you misinterpreted it to mean something else.) You might as well blame grass for growing or dogs for barking or birds for flying... it's what they do. The fine print is part of business, like it or not. It's been that way for as long as man has been practicing commerce.
Count it as a lesson and learn to read the fine print. :rolleyes:
Oh, and I have plenty of time left in my day, thank you very much.
That's the catch... in "common usage" not contract or business language. This is a business, not a common person, so logically you should interpret it in the business usage.
I wouldn't trust a person no. But Cryptic isn't a PERSON, it's a corporation. Trusting a corporation is just plain stupid any way you look at it.
No, it's the act of someone protecting themselves from a corporate entity that has no regard for them personally aside from the money they pay to them.
Also, what the heck is with the Orwelian TRIBBLE? This isn't politics, it's a game... You are seriously blowing this out of proportion and that proves it... :rolleyes:
Nagus don't use things such as "reality" or "logical problem solving" or any of these other rational assumptions adults over the age of 18 should know....
You just can't win. That said, good post.