This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Stormshade
this is a perfect example of heavy handed TRIBBLE that also happens in the irc channel to spin, limit anti-cryptic posts. i acknowledge that some posts need to be edited out for personal attacks but there are far too many posts edited because they make a good point that cryptic are acting like evil corporations...
sad really. this is trek and this behavior is about as far opposite of what roddenberry envisioned as the trek world as you can get...
That's the catch... in "common usage" not contract or business language. This is a business, not a common person, so logically you should interpret it in the business usage.
I wouldn't trust a person no. But Cryptic isn't a PERSON, it's a corporation. Trusting a corporation is just plain stupid any way you look at it.
No, it's the act of someone protecting themselves from a corporate entity that has no regard for them personally aside from the money they pay to them.
Also, what the heck is with the Orwelian TRIBBLE? This isn't politics, it's a game... You are seriously blowing this out of proportion and that proves it... :rolleyes:
I'm having trouble understanding what exactly it is you're taking issue with.
I don't trust Cryptic's advertising anymore and do not recommend that others trust them either until Cryptic starts playing fair. You take issue with that and then tell me that I shouldn't trust Cryptic?
Just because you can interpret a word to mean something does not mean that it is right or not deceptive to deliberately do so. It's called "talking out of both sides of your face" to do so. It is deceptive. It's not a lie, but it is deceptive. I'm not saying "Cryptic lied" I'm saying "Cryptic is deceptive". You can even tell the truth and be deceptive. Lets say you want to deceive someone and that person knows you're going to deceive them. They ask you "which way to the store?" and you point to the store knowing full well that they'll go in any direction other than the store. If one can use the truth to deceive, one can certainly use weasel words to deceive.
I feel deceived. You take issue with that? Fine. but first tell me in a convincing fashion why I should not feel deceived by the fact that I took the advertisements at face value and got burned.
And again, I don't care that the stuff is in CStore, I care that there's a systemic problem with the people writing the advertisements being deliberately... how shall we say cryptic?
Seriously, are you even listening to what you're saying? This is where Orwell comes in. It's not politics. I'm seriously ashamed to have to explain this to you, but the part of Orwell's writings I was referencing was the part about holding in one's mind two different and completely incongruous ideas simultaneously. I really don't know why you and others are so dead set on misinterpreting everything I say and taking it out of context.
Either you're just TRIBBLE around and taking issue for the sake of taking issue or you aren't actually considering what is being said by either you OR anyone else before you decide to place your opposition on the table.
To summarize what I'm seeing here, it's a bunch "Yes, you're right. I agree. Cryptic isn't to be taken at face value. For that reason we must be at odds with eachother." Agreeing with someone is the absolute most absurd reason to disagree with them. Agreeing is arguing. Another Orwellian moment there.
this is a perfect example of heavy handed TRIBBLE that also happens in the irc channel to spin, limit anti-cryptic posts. i acknowledge that some posts need to be edited out for personal attacks but there are far too many posts edited because they make a good point that cryptic are acting like evil corporations...
It's bad karma to discuss moderation decisions on the official forums.
sad really. this is trek and this behavior is about as far opposite of what roddenberry envisioned as the trek world as you can get...
Roddenberry also envisioned a world where women can captain a starship, be independent and strong instead of always having to play second fiddle to men. A world where both genders aren't just legally equal, but are actually treated as such by the culture as well. Yet the fans constantly lambaste the Voyager show for having a female captain. Yeah...
You've got to just chill out a bit. We all do. You made your feedback known. Others have made their feedback known.
You're not really going to gain any ground in the "debate" portion of the discussion. The sides are dug in and entrenched. You yourself have posted more than once that there's not enough common ground between the emotional reaction to this and the people using logic or reason to approach it.
That's your own point. And you made it well. As such, you should realize that the emotion isn't going to subside in a heated debate.
I feel for the people who are frustrated by this decision. I really really do. I'm not saying stop giving Cryptic your feedback. I'm just saying chill out a bit on the debate part with other posters. It's just going to frustrate you more. And you already are frustrated by the circumstances.
I still wish you luck in getting a refund. The only people who can do anything substantive to help you with your issue and your frustration are people at Cryptic.
All we fellow community members can do is offer you sympathy, agreement, disagreement or hostility.
None of which will get you a refund. Or deal with your issue.
I sincerely wish you luck with Cryptic Customer Service. I've seen instances where things do get a positive result. I've also seen instances where they do not. I think it's 50/50 for you on this one.
You've got to just chill out a bit. We all do. You made your feedback known. Others have made their feedback known.
You're not really going to gain any ground in the "debate" portion of the discussion. The sides are dug in and entrenched. You yourself have posted more than once that there's not enough common ground between the emotional reaction to this and the people using logic or reason to approach it.
That's your own point. And you made it well. As such, you should realize that the emotion isn't going to subside in a heated debate.
I feel for the people who are frustrated by this decision. I really really do. I'm not saying stop giving Cryptic your feedback. I'm just saying chill out a bit on the debate part with other posters. It's just going to frustrate you more. And you already are frustrated by the circumstances.
I still wish you luck in getting a refund. The only people who can do anything substantive to help you with your issue and your frustration are people at Cryptic.
All we fellow community members can do is offer you sympathy, agreement, disagreement or hostility.
None of which will get you a refund. Or deal with your issue.
I sincerely wish you luck with Cryptic Customer Service. I've seen instances where things do get a positive result. I've also seen instances where they do not. I think it's 50/50 for you on this one.
Yeah, you're right... I've just been dumbfounded by the number of people who argue because they agree.
But I don't really want a refund. The only thing I want is more forthright advertising. I want to be able to not feel paranoid when reading anything Cryptic says. Like with that Unity Technologies corporation. They over promise and over deliver. UT has won my undying loyalty. Their advertisements are all too good to be true and yet the product is better than advertised. I just don't see why Cryptic can't at least be forthright in their advertisements. Customer loyalty is a very important thing these days, especially considering how bloody the water has become from so much competition.
It's bad karma to discuss moderation decisions on the official forums.
Roddenberry also envisioned a world where women can captain a starship, be independent and strong instead of always having to play second fiddle to men. A world where both genders aren't just legally equal, but are actually treated as such by the culture as well. Yet the fans constantly lambaste the Voyager show for having a female captain. Yeah...
Don't say "fans" as if most fans hated voyager for that reason. I and I know many others who enjoyed Voyager because it was a different set of circumstances than other episodes.
There is going to always be some TRIBBLE who hates something because of that. Others hated it because the plot sucked and was repetitious..others hated it for the weak sauce that all Voyagers enemies seemed to become...others have their own reasons.
Lots of fans liked Voyager. Lots of fans enjoyed the dynmaic that being stranded and facing morale decisions created for a ship so far from Federation territory.
Lets not act like every Trek fan outfits his BO's as all females which all wear short skirts and short tops from hooters shall we?
Ok, let's put it another way then. Exclusive is not a word that has a length of time associated with it, in any sense of the word and in any usage of the word by itself. So when we see "exclusive" we are talking about present tense or "right now." There is no way to tell how long that applies unless there are other words used in conjunction with it. "Exclusive" by itself, will not tell you if it was exclusive before or if it will be exclusive in the future. Only that right now, it is.
So essentially, any time any company says something is exclusive, they are saying "this item is limited in some way right now." And it was, it was limited by where it was available. But that does not mean the company is also saying "and it will always be that way in the future", unless they actually say so.
Deception or being misleading would be like the Disney Advertisement that somebody mentioned, where they say "this exclusive edition of Snow White will be locked away in the Disney vault forever", and then six months later it's back again.
Ok, let's put it another way then. Exclusive is not a word that has a length of time associated with it, in any sense of the word and in any usage of the word by itself. So when we see "exclusive" we are talking about present tense or "right now." There is no way to tell how long that applies unless there are other words used in conjunction with it. "Exclusive" by itself, will not tell you if it was exclusive before or if it will be exclusive in the future. Only that right now, it is.
So essentially, any time any company says something is exclusive, they are saying "this item is limited in some way right now." And it was, it was limited by where it was available. But that does not mean the company is also saying "and it will always be that way in the future", unless they actually say so.
Deception or being misleading would be like the Disney Advertisement that somebody mentioned, where they say "this exclusive edition of Snow White will be locked away in the Disney vault forever", and then six months later it's back again.
Red herring. It does not address the issue of not being able to take the advertisement at face value. It does not address the fact that customer loyalty is lost by engaging in the practices you are condoning. You cannot logic away the fact that customer loyalty being lost is still customer loyalty being lost. Like Ernie when he ate that cookie of Bert's on Sesame Street. He tried to rearrange the cookies but no matter how many times he rearranged them, there was still one cookie missing.
Your argument can also be used to support the other way around.
Exclusive does not imply a length of time. Therefore it does not imply - on its own - that there ever will be a time at which that which is exclusive will ever not be exclusive. When your own logic can support the opposition, it's not good logic.
* The Game. Packaged in a leather box with gold title treatment. The manual inside will feature a special cover with the signatures of key-people from the Galaxies development team.
* Exclusive in-game wearable: The wearable will be three types of "eyewear."
* Art concept book. This will feature drawings, computer models, renders, character information, etc. Revel in the art and history behind this massively multiplayer game
* Collectable figurine of the all-powerful Zabrak female species immortalized in pewter.
* Sew on patch, featuring the logo of the first exciting chapter of Star Wars Galaxies.
The exclusive goggles in SWG are still exclusive.
There are items from WoW that were advertised as "exclusive". Despite a very noisy player base, they are still exclusive.
In EQ2, I have a baby pet dragon house pet from the DVD Collector's Edition. This thing is so freaking rare that people have flat out told me that I'm lying when I tell them that it exists, let alone that I have it until they see it for themselves. It is still exclusive. The closest you can get to it short of entering a DVD Collector's Edition cd key or buying one from someone who has one (they're able to be traded, but you can only ever claim it once) is a plushy version that does not walk, perform tricks, breathe fire, or anything remotely interactive. It just sits there.
I'm sure there are many other games in which the exclusives have stayed exclusive. So obviously "exclusive" does not automatically entail "only for the moment and 4 months down the road it won't be."
But again, I'm fine with the stuff being added to cstore, I think exclusives like this should always be possible to obtain so long as the means of obtaining is stays the same.
Here's what I mean: I would rather they have reopened CO lifetime account purchasing and allow people who purchase it to get the MU uniform as a reward for supporting both games. The people who buy STO lifetime now should gain access to the Liberated Borg race. People who buy Gamestop should come with the TOS Constitution Class. Etc, etc. I'm not against making it availible. You can still get the EQ2 baby dragon by entering in an unused game key from the DVD collector's edition tin.
I'm against changing the method for which the exclusives are obtained. I am particularly against trivializing the investment others made. If they want the exclusives, they should jump through the same hoops as anyone else had to jump through to get it. Just the hoops should always be availible unless something is a "limited edition, only X number will ever made" kind of thing.
There are ways of even putting the stuff on CStore without stepping on anyone's toes. There's more than one Mirror Universe uniform style. Could put those up. Or put a version of it up that includes daggers in the belt or boots. Something to differentiate it. There are many ways to do this without looking like a drunk minotaur in the china shop of customer loyalty.
If Cryptic where to do anything about these issues, they should have made all bonuses non-exclusive across the board. Instead, they cherry picked the ones they could make the most money from. They refuse to comment on making everything available in the C-Store (actually they said some will remain exclusive), giving the middle finger to some customers while rewarding others.
Cryptic Marketing is responsible for the biggest blowouts in customer service and customer loyalty in this game. I love Star Trek and I supported the IP and Cryptic with my purchases. At this point my trust in Cryptic Marketing is less than ZERO. I'll keep playing out of love for Star Trek but I'll never buy another game from them.
I was never against adding bonuses to the C-Store... just wanted it to be fair to everyone. Greed over fairness to all has left a bad taste in my mouth. After many marketing fiasco's I'm done.
Red herring. It does not address the issue of not being able to take the advertisement at face value. It does not address the fact that customer loyalty is lost by engaging in the practices you are condoning. You cannot logic away the fact that customer loyalty being lost is still customer loyalty being lost. Like Ernie when he ate that cookie of Bert's on Sesame Street. He tried to rearrange the cookies but no matter how many times he rearranged them, there was still one cookie missing.
Your argument can also be used to support the other way around.
Exclusive does not imply a length of time. Therefore it does not imply - on its own - that there ever will be a time at which that which is exclusive will ever not be exclusive. When your own logic can support the opposition, it's not good logic.
It does address all of that, because the heart of the matter of whether or not they lied or misled you. If they did, then all of that comes into play. If they did not, then what you feel is irrational and there's no way for them to predict or stop it, and to constantly attempt to placate people for it will just bankrupt them.
You are correct that it does not determine there will ever be a time that it will stop being exclusive. However, it leaves that possibility open that it will. In order for you to be misled or lied to, there has to be an expectation that it will not be the case. There is no expectation if there is no guarantee of how long it will remain exclusive. They can make it free for everyone five minutes later, and their advertising is still 100% straight-forward.
With the Disney Ad, they specifically tell you they will not offer this again. They say it's going in the vault forever, so "exclusive" explicitly means forever. Cryptic made no such claims. They did not say "exclusive Mirror Uniform that will be locked away forever" afterwards. They said the item that was coming along with the thing you were actually buying (the software subscription), was currently limited to that particular subscription.
And I remind you, exclusivity does have degrees to it. It is still an exclusive item. It is less so, but it is still an exclusive item. You can only get it through the C-store and for a certain price.
(And now we can add cookies to the C-store along with the donuts and other things, whoever is keeping that list.)
However, it leaves that possibility open that it will.
It does no such thing. The words "exclusive" and "unique" are entirely agnostic to the concept of time frame.
As for Disney. I never liked their movies. Also, yes, they do that kind of thing. Which is exactly why I do not trust anything Disney advertises. That's the crux of the matter. They can say whatever they want as long as it doesn't run afoul of consumer protection laws. But that doesn't mean that Disney inspires consumer loyalty by doing that whole "this is the last time you can get Bambi on VHS or DVD or BlueRay or whatever."
When Disney does that, they show that their advertisements cannot be trusted. It shows that they do not stick to their word. It's that simple. I take issue with Disney's deceptive practices. I do not take issue with the fact that they lose the trust of the public by doing so.
1) Mirror Universe Uniforms - I understand it was to get me interested in STO after buying CO. Guess what - it did for me. Who DOESN"T love Mirror Universe. But, it should be a Veteran reward or something - year long subscriber or something. It just hurts the feelings of CO Lifers. I understand its a great business decision, but its too soon.
2) Pre-order Exclusives - This SHOULD'VE been put in the C-store.... EVENTUALLY. This is way too soon to put it up. It should be there for the people that didn't start when STO started. That way they can have access to BO Borg & Connie-class. This early cheeses off your fan base who bought multiple copies.
3) Borg Captain - NEVER put this in the C-store or Veteran reward. People gave you their money BEFORE the game was ready. They deserve something special for the faith they put in Cryptic. Yes, they will profit in the long-run by saving money in subscription. That doesn't take away from the fact that they could have lost money if STO failed.
The real issue is that people are having "I don't know if I should trust you" thoughts about Cryptic. Think it through, people. If you weren't able to afford to pre-order and buy the game (or didn't know about STO until later) wouldn't you want a Joined Trill?
I agree that this is WAY too soon and MU uniforms isn't cool. But as long as STO Lifers still get to keep something extra-special, I'll still keep faith in you Cryptic.
It does no such thing. The words "exclusive" and "unique" are entirely agnostic to the concept of time frame.
Precisely! Which means at any time it is possible it will no longer be exclusive, unless they have told you otherwise. If they do not say otherwise, they are flat out telling you that they have left that door open, and it is up to you to decide the probability it will occur.
The probability of it occurring in this case was very high because of the type of item, and the type of game. If you decided the probability was low, then you were simply proven incorrect. That sucks, but that's not their fault. That's the dice not falling in your favor.
3) Borg Captain - NEVER put this in the C-store or Veteran reward. People gave you their money BEFORE the game was ready. They deserve something special for the faith they put in Cryptic. Yes, they will profit in the long-run by saving money in subscription. That doesn't take away from the fact that they could have lost money if STO failed.
That will probably not happen now because Cryptic knows they will have a mad backlash of torch lit pitchfork riots over it.
But MU Uniforms from CO LTS (ALSO paid b4 game was ready!) They targeted Trekkies with this offer but they decided to sell it. They can see their subscription #'s - There's not enough owners of these to put up a big enough stink. Their damage was mitigated.
Grats to everyone who wanted MU Uni's (wasn't against it) but I will always be against them cherry picking one LTS offer over another. People want the Liberated Borg to and I always thought ANY STO Lifer should have access to it.
Why stand behind your advertisements with one offer and not another? This is why my faith in Cryptic Marketing is now less than ZERO.
I don't know what you guys are looking for. If you're looking for Cryptic to say sorry and give you money or something, you already know it ain't going to happen. You obviously aren't doing this for feedback purposes, because as it has been pointed out multiple times, this board may not be the best one.
I think you want sympathy for your anger. That's fine to a degree. I've made dumb purchases. I admitted to them being dumb purchases though and moved on. While it's true that as a result, I do not necessarily buy from the companies I felt upset with thereafter, that's all that needed to happen. Period.
But then, I don't feel sympathy at the same time. I've never bought something so that somebody else can't have it. I've also never spent two hundred dollars for an in-game costume. When the pre-order bonuses were announced, I researched it and bought the one I thought would make me the happiest. There was one other that I had thought of buying, and if I did, I wouldn't be upset at all right now. I spent the money, nobody made me, knowing full well that Cryptic had hinted at releasing them some three to six months down the road on the C-Store. I don't recall where I read that, but I believe it was in an interview.
I didn't spend money so that I could go around waiving my "you know what" in front of people and letting them know who is boss. That's really not necessary for my ego. So, I don't have sympathy for that. I don't have sympathy for people who bought an LTS with a minor benefit for the minor benefit. That's two hundred bucks for a costume piece. That's ridiculous and you know it. Perhaps that's why you guys are so angry is that so much of it is fueled by shame.
You guys who are upset didn't think this through and now your feeling it. Furtherrmore, the entire point of your rage is that you can no longer walk around and be all better than everyone else.
1) Mirror Universe Uniforms - I understand it was to get me interested in STO after buying CO. Guess what - it did for me. Who DOESN"T love Mirror Universe. But, it should be a Veteran reward or something - year long subscriber or something. It just hurts the feelings of CO Lifers. I understand its a great business decision, but its too soon.
2) Pre-order Exclusives - This SHOULD'VE been put in the C-store.... EVENTUALLY. This is way too soon to put it up. It should be there for the people that didn't start when STO started. That way they can have access to BO Borg & Connie-class. This early cheeses off your fan base who bought multiple copies.
3) Borg Captain - NEVER put this in the C-store or Veteran reward. People gave you their money BEFORE the game was ready. They deserve something special for the faith they put in Cryptic. Yes, they will profit in the long-run by saving money in subscription. That doesn't take away from the fact that they could have lost money if STO failed.
The real issue is that people are having "I don't know if I should trust you" thoughts about Cryptic. Think it through, people. If you weren't able to afford to pre-order and buy the game (or didn't know about STO until later) wouldn't you want a Joined Trill?
I agree that this is WAY too soon and MU uniforms isn't cool. But as long as STO Lifers still get to keep something extra-special, I'll still keep faith in you Cryptic.
On the whole Borg Captain thing, didn't you guys also get a discount on the LTS?
So, you actually paid less for an LTS with a bonus?
*edit*
I'm not entirely disagreeing with you, just making a point.
I don't think there would be any thing wrong with a year and half veteran award for the whole thing. I mean, at that point, subscribers would have out-paid you guys.
On the whole Borg Captain thing, didn't you guys also get a discount on the LTS?
So, you actually paid less for an LTS with a bonus?
We didn't get a "discount". The STO lifetime was more expensive than CO when it was first put for sale. But we paid anyway.
LATER ON, Cryptic decided they would sell Lifetime more more expensive without the bonus for people after the game went live. When we bought it, we had no idea they would sell them after launch.
Also, all the 'in-game exclusives' I've gotten for pre-ordering or buying other games, most recently God of War 3 for me, are still exclusive. This is my first experience with this developer but I guess they did this end-around in their other games too. I'll be more careful next time.
You are obviously not familiar with the largest MMO out there (WoW) where this is exactly how it works.
That game has exclusives available for limited time only and as far as I am aware have NEVER brought them back. Went to Blizzcon and got a Murloc marine or a special bear mount? If you did you are one of a few that can ever have that vanity pet running around or ride on that mount. Did a one off seasonal event in WoW to get a pet?... grats as that is unlikely to be ever run again.
Perhaps a few web definitiions might help.
Exclusive:
Excluding some or most, as from membership or participation
Not divided or shared with others
Excluding or tending to exclude
Belonging to or catering for a privileged minority
(postpositive; foll by to) limited (to); found only (in)
But my personal favourite definition of relevance - (Business / Commerce) Commerce (of a contract, agreement, etc.) binding the parties to do business only with each other with respect to a class of goods or services
The last one suggests a Contract was entered binding the parties (Cryptic & CO Lifetimers) to only do business with each other with respect to a class of goods (Mirror Universe Uniform). Thus by offering the identical Mirror Universe uniform to all and sundry does this not indicate a breach of contract towards those CO lifetimers?
Perhaps it is you that needs better understanding. The MU offer in Champions was for Champions. To this date, it is STILL the only way you could get that uniform, through Champions. Again, this is clearly about a few people wanting to have something no one else has. It was an extra. It was an exclusive, it is still an extra, but it is no longer exclusive to Champions lifetime subs.
Simply put, you can argue the semantics of the propaganda or argue the fine print all you want. It does not change this immutable truth: if you cannot take what a person or company says at face value, then they are deceptive.
No that isn't true, the way you describe it is the consumer should be protected from the consumer. No, there has to be an element of personal responsibility.
We didn't get a "discount". The STO lifetime was more expensive than CO when it was first put for sale. But we paid anyway.
LATER ON, Cryptic decided they would sell Lifetime more more expensive without the bonus for people after the game went live. When we bought it, we had no idea they would sell them after launch.
Ah, because I was there all the way through Beta and I remember them making it pretty clear what was going on with all that. So, $249 was a discount to the best of my knowledge.
preorder LTS = Don't know how this game will pan out
post-release LTS = Have a decent idea how it plays, community interaction, etc.
So, you got a discount. That's the point.
Next to that, in one year, six months from the release date, the subscribers will be on a trend to have been paying more than you. In that case, the veteran award seems logical. Don't be upset, there's no need to get self-ish or upset over something that you know to be true.
As I was pointing out with the MU stuff, I hope you didn't spend two hundred forty-nine bucks on a Captain type.
Ah, because I was there all the way through Beta and I remember them making it pretty clear what was going on with all that. So, $249 was a discount to the best of my knowledge.
I will agree with you. They did announce it would be for sale after launch, price, no borg, etc. LATER. I want to say maybe a week or two before launch. At first, the offer was touted as "only before launch." I remember buying mine then.
pre-order LTS = $240 + borg BO
post-release LTS = $300 - Borg BO
Yep. Another example of Cryptic's greed over fairness. They wanted an influx of cash immediately, thus the Discount + Playable Borg. The fact that they're sticking to their guns on this offer's bonus means they want to do it again in the future for their next MMO.
Now that they see what they've done has ****ed off a portion of their player base they won't do the right thing and make the Borg available at least to all Lifers.
I already have the Liberated Borg. And I had MU Uni's. MU Uni's were given out while people who want Liberated Borg are left in the dark. Cryptic's greed at work.
I will agree with you. They did announce it would be for sale after launch, price, no borg, etc. LATER. I want to say maybe a week or two before launch. At first, the offer was touted as "only before launch." I remember buying mine then.
Yup they were pretty clear this was something that would not be available after launch.
Comments
this is a perfect example of heavy handed TRIBBLE that also happens in the irc channel to spin, limit anti-cryptic posts. i acknowledge that some posts need to be edited out for personal attacks but there are far too many posts edited because they make a good point that cryptic are acting like evil corporations...
sad really. this is trek and this behavior is about as far opposite of what roddenberry envisioned as the trek world as you can get...
I'm having trouble understanding what exactly it is you're taking issue with.
I don't trust Cryptic's advertising anymore and do not recommend that others trust them either until Cryptic starts playing fair. You take issue with that and then tell me that I shouldn't trust Cryptic?
Just because you can interpret a word to mean something does not mean that it is right or not deceptive to deliberately do so. It's called "talking out of both sides of your face" to do so. It is deceptive. It's not a lie, but it is deceptive. I'm not saying "Cryptic lied" I'm saying "Cryptic is deceptive". You can even tell the truth and be deceptive. Lets say you want to deceive someone and that person knows you're going to deceive them. They ask you "which way to the store?" and you point to the store knowing full well that they'll go in any direction other than the store. If one can use the truth to deceive, one can certainly use weasel words to deceive.
I feel deceived. You take issue with that? Fine. but first tell me in a convincing fashion why I should not feel deceived by the fact that I took the advertisements at face value and got burned.
And again, I don't care that the stuff is in CStore, I care that there's a systemic problem with the people writing the advertisements being deliberately... how shall we say cryptic?
Seriously, are you even listening to what you're saying? This is where Orwell comes in. It's not politics. I'm seriously ashamed to have to explain this to you, but the part of Orwell's writings I was referencing was the part about holding in one's mind two different and completely incongruous ideas simultaneously. I really don't know why you and others are so dead set on misinterpreting everything I say and taking it out of context.
Either you're just TRIBBLE around and taking issue for the sake of taking issue or you aren't actually considering what is being said by either you OR anyone else before you decide to place your opposition on the table.
To summarize what I'm seeing here, it's a bunch "Yes, you're right. I agree. Cryptic isn't to be taken at face value. For that reason we must be at odds with eachother." Agreeing with someone is the absolute most absurd reason to disagree with them. Agreeing is arguing. Another Orwellian moment there.
It's bad karma to discuss moderation decisions on the official forums.
Roddenberry also envisioned a world where women can captain a starship, be independent and strong instead of always having to play second fiddle to men. A world where both genders aren't just legally equal, but are actually treated as such by the culture as well. Yet the fans constantly lambaste the Voyager show for having a female captain. Yeah...
You've got to just chill out a bit. We all do. You made your feedback known. Others have made their feedback known.
You're not really going to gain any ground in the "debate" portion of the discussion. The sides are dug in and entrenched. You yourself have posted more than once that there's not enough common ground between the emotional reaction to this and the people using logic or reason to approach it.
That's your own point. And you made it well. As such, you should realize that the emotion isn't going to subside in a heated debate.
I feel for the people who are frustrated by this decision. I really really do. I'm not saying stop giving Cryptic your feedback. I'm just saying chill out a bit on the debate part with other posters. It's just going to frustrate you more. And you already are frustrated by the circumstances.
I still wish you luck in getting a refund. The only people who can do anything substantive to help you with your issue and your frustration are people at Cryptic.
All we fellow community members can do is offer you sympathy, agreement, disagreement or hostility.
None of which will get you a refund. Or deal with your issue.
I sincerely wish you luck with Cryptic Customer Service. I've seen instances where things do get a positive result. I've also seen instances where they do not. I think it's 50/50 for you on this one.
Yeah, you're right... I've just been dumbfounded by the number of people who argue because they agree.
But I don't really want a refund. The only thing I want is more forthright advertising. I want to be able to not feel paranoid when reading anything Cryptic says. Like with that Unity Technologies corporation. They over promise and over deliver. UT has won my undying loyalty. Their advertisements are all too good to be true and yet the product is better than advertised. I just don't see why Cryptic can't at least be forthright in their advertisements. Customer loyalty is a very important thing these days, especially considering how bloody the water has become from so much competition.
Don't say "fans" as if most fans hated voyager for that reason. I and I know many others who enjoyed Voyager because it was a different set of circumstances than other episodes.
There is going to always be some TRIBBLE who hates something because of that. Others hated it because the plot sucked and was repetitious..others hated it for the weak sauce that all Voyagers enemies seemed to become...others have their own reasons.
Lots of fans liked Voyager. Lots of fans enjoyed the dynmaic that being stranded and facing morale decisions created for a ship so far from Federation territory.
Lets not act like every Trek fan outfits his BO's as all females which all wear short skirts and short tops from hooters shall we?
So essentially, any time any company says something is exclusive, they are saying "this item is limited in some way right now." And it was, it was limited by where it was available. But that does not mean the company is also saying "and it will always be that way in the future", unless they actually say so.
Deception or being misleading would be like the Disney Advertisement that somebody mentioned, where they say "this exclusive edition of Snow White will be locked away in the Disney vault forever", and then six months later it's back again.
Red herring. It does not address the issue of not being able to take the advertisement at face value. It does not address the fact that customer loyalty is lost by engaging in the practices you are condoning. You cannot logic away the fact that customer loyalty being lost is still customer loyalty being lost. Like Ernie when he ate that cookie of Bert's on Sesame Street. He tried to rearrange the cookies but no matter how many times he rearranged them, there was still one cookie missing.
Your argument can also be used to support the other way around.
Exclusive does not imply a length of time. Therefore it does not imply - on its own - that there ever will be a time at which that which is exclusive will ever not be exclusive. When your own logic can support the opposition, it's not good logic.
The exclusive goggles in SWG are still exclusive.
There are items from WoW that were advertised as "exclusive". Despite a very noisy player base, they are still exclusive.
In EQ2, I have a baby pet dragon house pet from the DVD Collector's Edition. This thing is so freaking rare that people have flat out told me that I'm lying when I tell them that it exists, let alone that I have it until they see it for themselves. It is still exclusive. The closest you can get to it short of entering a DVD Collector's Edition cd key or buying one from someone who has one (they're able to be traded, but you can only ever claim it once) is a plushy version that does not walk, perform tricks, breathe fire, or anything remotely interactive. It just sits there.
I'm sure there are many other games in which the exclusives have stayed exclusive. So obviously "exclusive" does not automatically entail "only for the moment and 4 months down the road it won't be."
But again, I'm fine with the stuff being added to cstore, I think exclusives like this should always be possible to obtain so long as the means of obtaining is stays the same.
Here's what I mean: I would rather they have reopened CO lifetime account purchasing and allow people who purchase it to get the MU uniform as a reward for supporting both games. The people who buy STO lifetime now should gain access to the Liberated Borg race. People who buy Gamestop should come with the TOS Constitution Class. Etc, etc. I'm not against making it availible. You can still get the EQ2 baby dragon by entering in an unused game key from the DVD collector's edition tin.
I'm against changing the method for which the exclusives are obtained. I am particularly against trivializing the investment others made. If they want the exclusives, they should jump through the same hoops as anyone else had to jump through to get it. Just the hoops should always be availible unless something is a "limited edition, only X number will ever made" kind of thing.
There are ways of even putting the stuff on CStore without stepping on anyone's toes. There's more than one Mirror Universe uniform style. Could put those up. Or put a version of it up that includes daggers in the belt or boots. Something to differentiate it. There are many ways to do this without looking like a drunk minotaur in the china shop of customer loyalty.
Cryptic Marketing is responsible for the biggest blowouts in customer service and customer loyalty in this game. I love Star Trek and I supported the IP and Cryptic with my purchases. At this point my trust in Cryptic Marketing is less than ZERO. I'll keep playing out of love for Star Trek but I'll never buy another game from them.
I was never against adding bonuses to the C-Store... just wanted it to be fair to everyone. Greed over fairness to all has left a bad taste in my mouth. After many marketing fiasco's I'm done.
It does address all of that, because the heart of the matter of whether or not they lied or misled you. If they did, then all of that comes into play. If they did not, then what you feel is irrational and there's no way for them to predict or stop it, and to constantly attempt to placate people for it will just bankrupt them.
You are correct that it does not determine there will ever be a time that it will stop being exclusive. However, it leaves that possibility open that it will. In order for you to be misled or lied to, there has to be an expectation that it will not be the case. There is no expectation if there is no guarantee of how long it will remain exclusive. They can make it free for everyone five minutes later, and their advertising is still 100% straight-forward.
With the Disney Ad, they specifically tell you they will not offer this again. They say it's going in the vault forever, so "exclusive" explicitly means forever. Cryptic made no such claims. They did not say "exclusive Mirror Uniform that will be locked away forever" afterwards. They said the item that was coming along with the thing you were actually buying (the software subscription), was currently limited to that particular subscription.
And I remind you, exclusivity does have degrees to it. It is still an exclusive item. It is less so, but it is still an exclusive item. You can only get it through the C-store and for a certain price.
(And now we can add cookies to the C-store along with the donuts and other things, whoever is keeping that list.)
It does no such thing. The words "exclusive" and "unique" are entirely agnostic to the concept of time frame.
As for Disney. I never liked their movies. Also, yes, they do that kind of thing. Which is exactly why I do not trust anything Disney advertises. That's the crux of the matter. They can say whatever they want as long as it doesn't run afoul of consumer protection laws. But that doesn't mean that Disney inspires consumer loyalty by doing that whole "this is the last time you can get Bambi on VHS or DVD or BlueRay or whatever."
When Disney does that, they show that their advertisements cannot be trusted. It shows that they do not stick to their word. It's that simple. I take issue with Disney's deceptive practices. I do not take issue with the fact that they lose the trust of the public by doing so.
yes, that's right. They are agnostic so that they can go either way. It leaves open to possibilities.
1) Mirror Universe Uniforms - I understand it was to get me interested in STO after buying CO. Guess what - it did for me. Who DOESN"T love Mirror Universe. But, it should be a Veteran reward or something - year long subscriber or something. It just hurts the feelings of CO Lifers. I understand its a great business decision, but its too soon.
2) Pre-order Exclusives - This SHOULD'VE been put in the C-store.... EVENTUALLY. This is way too soon to put it up. It should be there for the people that didn't start when STO started. That way they can have access to BO Borg & Connie-class. This early cheeses off your fan base who bought multiple copies.
3) Borg Captain - NEVER put this in the C-store or Veteran reward. People gave you their money BEFORE the game was ready. They deserve something special for the faith they put in Cryptic. Yes, they will profit in the long-run by saving money in subscription. That doesn't take away from the fact that they could have lost money if STO failed.
The real issue is that people are having "I don't know if I should trust you" thoughts about Cryptic. Think it through, people. If you weren't able to afford to pre-order and buy the game (or didn't know about STO until later) wouldn't you want a Joined Trill?
I agree that this is WAY too soon and MU uniforms isn't cool. But as long as STO Lifers still get to keep something extra-special, I'll still keep faith in you Cryptic.
Precisely! Which means at any time it is possible it will no longer be exclusive, unless they have told you otherwise. If they do not say otherwise, they are flat out telling you that they have left that door open, and it is up to you to decide the probability it will occur.
The probability of it occurring in this case was very high because of the type of item, and the type of game. If you decided the probability was low, then you were simply proven incorrect. That sucks, but that's not their fault. That's the dice not falling in your favor.
That will probably not happen now because Cryptic knows they will have a mad backlash of torch lit pitchfork riots over it.
But MU Uniforms from CO LTS (ALSO paid b4 game was ready!) They targeted Trekkies with this offer but they decided to sell it. They can see their subscription #'s - There's not enough owners of these to put up a big enough stink. Their damage was mitigated.
Grats to everyone who wanted MU Uni's (wasn't against it) but I will always be against them cherry picking one LTS offer over another. People want the Liberated Borg to and I always thought ANY STO Lifer should have access to it.
Why stand behind your advertisements with one offer and not another? This is why my faith in Cryptic Marketing is now less than ZERO.
I think you want sympathy for your anger. That's fine to a degree. I've made dumb purchases. I admitted to them being dumb purchases though and moved on. While it's true that as a result, I do not necessarily buy from the companies I felt upset with thereafter, that's all that needed to happen. Period.
But then, I don't feel sympathy at the same time. I've never bought something so that somebody else can't have it. I've also never spent two hundred dollars for an in-game costume. When the pre-order bonuses were announced, I researched it and bought the one I thought would make me the happiest. There was one other that I had thought of buying, and if I did, I wouldn't be upset at all right now. I spent the money, nobody made me, knowing full well that Cryptic had hinted at releasing them some three to six months down the road on the C-Store. I don't recall where I read that, but I believe it was in an interview.
I didn't spend money so that I could go around waiving my "you know what" in front of people and letting them know who is boss. That's really not necessary for my ego. So, I don't have sympathy for that. I don't have sympathy for people who bought an LTS with a minor benefit for the minor benefit. That's two hundred bucks for a costume piece. That's ridiculous and you know it. Perhaps that's why you guys are so angry is that so much of it is fueled by shame.
You guys who are upset didn't think this through and now your feeling it. Furtherrmore, the entire point of your rage is that you can no longer walk around and be all better than everyone else.
Good luck with that.
On the whole Borg Captain thing, didn't you guys also get a discount on the LTS?
So, you actually paid less for an LTS with a bonus?
*edit*
I'm not entirely disagreeing with you, just making a point.
I don't think there would be any thing wrong with a year and half veteran award for the whole thing. I mean, at that point, subscribers would have out-paid you guys.
LATER ON, Cryptic decided they would sell Lifetime more more expensive without the bonus for people after the game went live. When we bought it, we had no idea they would sell them after launch.
post-release LTS = $300 - Borg BO
Perhaps it is you that needs better understanding. The MU offer in Champions was for Champions. To this date, it is STILL the only way you could get that uniform, through Champions. Again, this is clearly about a few people wanting to have something no one else has. It was an extra. It was an exclusive, it is still an extra, but it is no longer exclusive to Champions lifetime subs.
No that isn't true, the way you describe it is the consumer should be protected from the consumer. No, there has to be an element of personal responsibility.
Ah, because I was there all the way through Beta and I remember them making it pretty clear what was going on with all that. So, $249 was a discount to the best of my knowledge.
preorder LTS = Don't know how this game will pan out
post-release LTS = Have a decent idea how it plays, community interaction, etc.
So, you got a discount. That's the point.
Next to that, in one year, six months from the release date, the subscribers will be on a trend to have been paying more than you. In that case, the veteran award seems logical. Don't be upset, there's no need to get self-ish or upset over something that you know to be true.
As I was pointing out with the MU stuff, I hope you didn't spend two hundred forty-nine bucks on a Captain type.
Yep. Another example of Cryptic's greed over fairness. They wanted an influx of cash immediately, thus the Discount + Playable Borg. The fact that they're sticking to their guns on this offer's bonus means they want to do it again in the future for their next MMO.
Now that they see what they've done has ****ed off a portion of their player base they won't do the right thing and make the Borg available at least to all Lifers.
I already have the Liberated Borg. And I had MU Uni's. MU Uni's were given out while people who want Liberated Borg are left in the dark. Cryptic's greed at work.
Yup they were pretty clear this was something that would not be available after launch.