Some of these items are meant to identify individuals as being among the core founding players of the game. Honestly, I walk around seeing all the people in MU uniforms and wonder how many of them are authentic and how many are imposters.
Why don't we release the tacky looking lifetime combadges on cstore too? Heck, put it all up there, blue names, Career Officer title, Lib Borg species, that special sniper rifle, Chromodynamic Armor, Red Matter Capacitor, Automated Defense Turret, etc.
While i too purchased the Life time sub, it will most definately be my last Cryptic product. This game has been fun, but after the 2nd month i cant even force myself to log in every day. For me, i guess its just the way they spend more time thinking of ways to get my money out of the C store, then actually fixing the bugs still left from beta. This company has shown they only care about milking its player base.
To be fair, the marketing department makes the decisions about things that generate revenue. That includes C-Store items. The developers are the ones who fix the bugs. And they have been doing a pretty good job of it so far. Yes, some bugs have gone unfixed for a while now. And if they had a solution for them, they would have been fixed by now.
"There was (and remains) a large demand for these items from you all (meaning, our player base). I understand why some of you feel upset about this. We feel that this was the right thing to do for the community as a whole. I hope you all can appreciate that, and accept that we're really not out to slight the people who ultimately let us do the awesome things we do.
Thanks,
Stormshade"
This is one of the problems since the game went live, you offered certain things that everyone was aware would come from certain retail packages that for the most part were at minimum, twice the cost of what the game is retailing for now, and then give the items away for pennies in the C Store. The Life Time sub is another example of the greed Cryptil has shown for money, you took that money from customers willing to shell out basically your operating fund for the short term until you could truy to plug the holes in your press and marketing schemes, then turn around and stop listening to the majority, and given the vocal minority any and all things to make them happy
Again, it is Cryptic Marketing that is responsible for this and all the other promotional debacles that have happened since launch. They are consistantly promoting the game to bring in new customers at the expense of their existing customers. The developers genuinely care about the game and try to give something to everyone. But Marketing has assumed a "We couldn't care less how you feel about it" approach to their decisions. They just railroad stuff through no matter what. I wish Atari would slap them down and say, "ENOUGH! It is commendable that you want to draw new people to the game, but how does it help when your methods drive people away?"
Cryptic won't do it internally. They'll fall all over themselves to defend one of their own rather than take them to task. I can honestly say that of all the MMO companies I have observed, Cryptic has the absolure worst marketing department. Even SOE stands a little higher in rating compared to them, and until now, I never would have thought that would be possible.
STO can become one of the greatest MMOs in the world. But Marketing needs to stop monkeying around with stuff that upsets and divides their existing player base. Advertise the game. Run promos about features. Make each feature look awesome without being misleading. Like I said previously, the weekly episodic mission series that is coming up could have a promo of each weekly mission. If pushed to gaming news sites, fan sites, and YouTube, it'll generate tons of interest. Then it won't be like giving STO a blood transfusion without closing an arterial wound.
Some of these items are meant to identify individuals as being among the core founding players of the game. Honestly, I walk around seeing all the people in MU uniforms and wonder how many of them are authentic and how many are imposters.
Why don't we release the tacky looking lifetime combadges on cstore too? Heck, put it all up there, blue names, Career Officer title, Lib Borg species, that special sniper rifle, Chromodynamic Armor, Red Matter Capacitor, Automated Defense Turret, etc.
Why should it matter as long as you get to put the game you like i thought that is why you bought the game to start with being a "core player" or a "Lifer" shouldn`t matter as long as you get to play the game
Why should it matter as long as you get to put the game you like i thought that is why you bought the game to start with being a "core player" or a "Lifer" shouldn`t matter as long as you get to play the game
For the same reason that it matters if someone counterfeits the exclusive badges for the more expensive edition of a car. It trivializes the amount of money I spent on the game. First Cryptic says, and yes some of the representatives did say this in the forums "we're offering this to you if you buy it now, it will never be availible any other way, and this way you get to show people that you're one of the few people who really and truely believed in us." Then, they go and let everyone have it for a lot less money. We were deceived. Anyone who goes "oh well exclusive means this, this, and this" neglects the fact that questions were asked, question were answered, the answers to those questions were in direct opposition to what really happened.
Why should it matter as long as you get to put the game you like i thought that is why you bought the game to start with being a "core player" or a "Lifer" shouldn`t matter as long as you get to play the game
I agree with that statement, which is why I support the addition of these items to the C-Store.
What upsets me is the attitude Cryptic seems to be conveying. The way they apologize to the people who feel slighted does not ring sincere. When someone complains about something, and the response is "I'm sorry that you feel that way, but..." What it boils down to is "Oh well," Which is the Marketing team's motto, based on the things they have done since launch...
For the same reason that it matters if someone counterfeits the exclusive badges for the more expensive edition of a car. It trivializes the amount of money I spent on the game. First Cryptic says, and yes some of the representatives did say this in the forums "we're offering this to you if you buy it now, it will never be availible any other way, and this way you get to show people that you're one of the few people who really and truely believed in us." Then, they go and let everyone have it for a lot less money. We were deceived. Anyone who goes "oh well exclusive means this, this, and this" neglects the fact that questions were asked, question were answered, the answers to those questions were in direct opposition to what really happened.
So in short you want to feel special?...i give up you know this thread is pointless the last 90 pages, half of said this half of said that..ppl have put up links stating what was said the others don`t believe it etc etc ppl just see what they want to see and i feel like i`m talking to a brick wall, its clear that that issue won`t be solved at least not on these forums...at the end of the day THIS IS A GAME your meant to enjoy it if you`re getting this worked up over some free trinkets and the word "exclusive" theres something wrong, just play the game and try to enjoy or if you can`t leave for something else.....anyway this is my last look at this thread so i wish all posters (i.e both sides) the best of luck, if i see you ingame no hard feelings.
I am perfectly okay with this. The fact that others now have access to items I have does not devalue those items any for me. I did not buy them to be part of some special club, I bought what I bought because I thought at the time I would enjoy them, and so far I have. The fact that others can now enjoy does not diminish my enjoyment at all.
Are some people getting a better deal than I? Very probably. Heck I spent $59, to purchase the game that is now available at Wally-World for $29. Does this bother me no, because I got to enjoy my purchase for the few months that I did that it was not available for $29.
This happens all the time. I often have to decide if I am going to purchase a game at full price or wait for it to be released as a best of for a third the original price. That is just the way things are. So I decide if something is what I want immediately or am I willing to wait, then if I decide to wait I then decide the price I am willing to pay and wait for it to drop to that price. For example when I saw the Tony Hawk skateboard for $120 last Christmas I decided I liked it but only $80 worth, so I did not pick it up then. Last week at Wally-World it was down to $80, so I bought it. In a few months it very probably be sold for less than that. I decided what it was worth to me and waited for it to be at the price I liked. The fact that I got it at $80 should not diminish the joy of those that got to have theirs for Christmas.
So any of you that go purchase items that I had as part of an early exclusive package, that has now gone to broader release, I say good for you. I have enjoyed them greatly, and hope you do as well.
It's not our intent to give the middle finger to any one Mirror. Not only myself, but all of Cryptic values each and every customer we have. We simply wouldn't exist as a company if that weren't true. Releasing these items on the C-store was done to appease an overwhelming number of players asking us to do so.
However, as with all things in life, it came with a cost. No one here is happy that some players are upset by this. However, we have a responsibility to listen to our players feedback, and to provide you with what you request when we can.
There was (and remains) a large demand for these items from you all (meaning, our player base). I understand why some of you feel upset about this. We feel that this was the right thing to do for the community as a whole. I hope you all can appreciate that, and accept that we're really not out to slight the people who ultimately let us do the awesome things we do.
Thanks,
Stormshade
StormShade,
Thanks for the kind and reassuring words. However, action speaks louder than words. I've taken a conciliatory stance on this as soon as the "Bonus Items Into The C-Store" thread was created. In that thread and elsewhere on the forums plenty of people have given you guys ideas which would please both camps on this issue.
I won't rehash the ideas that were given because I don't believe you guys are listening at this point. Destra told us he was watching the thread and will continue to escalate our feedback. Many ideas to appease both sides were given over the weekend. Instead of hearing back on these ideas, the thread was closed without further comment on Tuesday.
Your actions basically say the opposite of what you wrote. You don't want to do anything extra for the people who made your subscriptions and box sale numbers look good at launch. You'd rather close the thread (close the door, if you will) and hope this will all go away. Written off as yet another weekly scheduled riot...
Your actions have told us you don't want to spend any resources on making early adopters happy as well. You took our money then shut the door on us. You didn't even make EVERYTHING non-exclusive out of fairness. (All bonus items should have been in the C-Store at launch but you used them to sell retail boxes instead!) You could do something to make amends but you rather not.
Like I said before, this is but one of many marketing fiascoes that we've been through. My trust is broken now, my friend. STO is the last Cryptic game I will purchase.
I am still happy with what I bought earlier, and the items I received with my preorder. I am still enoying them, and there wider availability does not diminish my enjoyment at all. I hope that others that now have the oportunity to have these same items get the same level of enjoyment from their own as I have from mine.
Rather than the taxonomy used for STO's virtual goods, the real issue seems to be the legitimacy of the channels used to distribute those virtual goods. Once an operator engages in patterned behavior (in this case, being loose with the perceived notion of "exclusive") players will inevitably learn that behavior and compensate.
As for myself, I think I got value for pre-ordering my lifetime subscribtion since it was free. I expensed it at work as competitive analysis
Ultimately I think many have learned that paying the nerd tax to be first in line has a very low value compared to waiting for a bargain in the cstore.
I am still happy with what I bought earlier, and the items I received with my preorder. I am still enoying them, and there wider availability does not diminish my enjoyment at all. I hope that others that now have the oportunity to have these same items get the same level of enjoyment from their own as I have from mine.
I don't think very many of the people who are upset about it are upset that the items themselves have been placed in the cstore so much as it is that it's a sign that Cryptic's marketing can't be trusted. It's like mixed feelings...These items should have been in cstore in the first place, and the marketing was deceptive, it should have given a time frame or at least mentioned that they would eventually be placed in cstore for a mere fraction of the cost.
I know a lot of people probably can't see the difference between being upset at the deceptive marketing and being upset that the items are in cstore. Of course there's also people who can't tell the difference between deception and blatant lying. There is a huge difference. Even the truth can be used to deceive. Deception is when you say something with the intention of manipulating people into doing things that they wouldn't do with the whole story. So telling a part of the truth but not the whole truth is deceptive. Using clever interpretation of words is deceptive. Making signature lines or letters out of extremely fine print is deceptive.
Anyone who says "it's not deception, because the words 'exclusive' and 'unique' can mean exactly what's happened." is basically saying - or at least in the way i interpret it - "it's not deception, because they used deceptive wording."
Again, it's not about the cstore/exclusive items that is the issue. The issue is the deception. It's the lack of trust. At least certain people in the marketing team need to be made to be figuratively strapped down to a photon torpedo firing tube and have a few empty torpedo casings fired out of the tube. It's a variation on an old maritime disciplinary action called "kissing the gunner's daughter".
Rather than the taxonomy used for STO's virtual goods, the real issue seems to be the legitimacy of the channels used to distribute those virtual goods. Once an operator engages in patterned behavior (in this case, being loose with the perceived notion of "exclusive") players will inevitably learn that behavior and compensate.
...
Ultimately I think many have learned that paying the nerd tax to be first in line has a very low value compared to waiting for a bargain in the cstore.
Precisely.
To Stormshade: Which is worse? Having whining on the forums (it's going to happen either way), or having the career tarnishing credibility of the devil?
When I pre-ordered I did it with one consideration in mind - which would give me items I thought would be useful and worth paying for the Digital Deluxe Edition over the standard game. I was going to get the game but I had to compare different items to decide where to get it from and in the end I went with Steam. Would I have liked some of the other items with my pre-order? Definitely! The TOS Enterprise is one of those but I would never buy more than one copy of a game just to gain the items it comes with.
You have to remember that not all versions were available to every person that wanted them due to regional differences. Ignoring how you feel for a moment (try..) do you think it's fair that you were able to obtain items that others couldn't no matter how much they wanted to? I wasn't happy with the cost of the TOS Enterprise at 800 points but that's what I had to pay to get it.
Those of you who want CP compensation ARE YOU OUTA YOUR FRACKIN MIND!!!!! those of us who did not buy the othe versions to get the things offered now are spending money on CP to get items you have already purchased you should not also get CP now that cryptic/atari has allowed people to purchase the items through the c store.
as for deceptive practices. DID YOU READ the terms of service you agreed to it the moment you created an account and logged into the game. the terms of service are linked on the web site if YOU failed to read them its yourt own fault. IT IS NOT DECEPTIVE, if they did not disclose in the tos that they can change what they want when they want then it might be deceptive but THEY DO disclose this !!!
Oh you mean the terms of service you would have signed AFTER you bought multiple copies of the game genius?
And the ToS that didnt exist for STO when the CO lifers bought their subscriptions?
Also how does you paying £15 on CP's equate to the £30-60 people would have paid for multiple issues of the game?
Whilst some people on here (even if I do consider them trolling or flaming) have reasonable counter arguments... yours certainly ISNT one of them!
I hope you all can appreciate that, and accept that we're really not out to slight the people who ultimately let us do the awesome things we do.
At some point you need to realize that nobody really cares what your intent is, it is only your actions that matter. If you action is slighting the "people", no amount of "but I didn't really mean to" makes any difference to anybody but yourself and it only helps yourself in keeping your rationalizations intact. We all need our rationalizations to get through the day, but at least realize that they are rationalization.
You often seem to point out things like "We aren't trying to hurt people" or "We don't sit around thinking up ways to annoy our customers" when nobody is actually saying them but you. It would be better if you skipped the strawmen.
You often seem to point out things like "We aren't trying to hurt people" or "We don't sit around thinking up ways to annoy our customers" when nobody is actually saying them but you. It would be better if you skipped the strawmen.
To be fair, I've seen lots of such posts on these forums. Usually couched in rhetoric so incendiary as to be self-parody, but there nonetheless. No-one who's been discussing this rationally has said Cryptic is actually trying to TRIBBLE over people, just that Cryptic or Atari marketing made a bad decision. But there've been enough people who've said Cryptic is some embodiment of willful malfeasance that I can see why Stormshade says that.
Oh you mean the terms of service you would have signed AFTER you bought multiple copies of the game genius?
And the ToS that didnt exist for STO when the CO lifers bought their subscriptions?
Also how does you paying £15 on CP's equate to the £30-60 people would have paid for multiple issues of the game?
Whilst some people on here (even if I do consider them trolling or flaming) have reasonable counter arguments... yours certainly ISNT one of them!
this must be your first expierence with an mmo. I being a normal person have a reasonable expectation of what mmo companies can do no one forced you to buy multiple copies of the game and if you did not like the terms of service I am quite sure that when you bought the game you could have returned it very early on atari was offering refunds to people who were dissatisfied so you feeling disenfranchised is your own fault.
also what does the CO ToS state? for the most part they are all the same in the area that they can change what they want when they want!
this must be your first expierence with an mmo. I being a normal person have a reasonable expectation of what mmo companies can do no one forced you to buy multiple copies of the game and if you did not like the terms of service I am quite sure that when you bought the game you could have returned it very early on atari was offering refunds to people who were dissatisfied so you feeling disenfranchised is your own fault.
also what does the CO ToS state? for the most part they are all the same in the area that they can change what they want when they want!
We didn't sign a eula or tos when we bought the CO LTS. CO hadn't been released when it was for sale
As for this being my first MMO, you are sorely mistaken.
I have subbed to: Eq1, Earth and Beyond, Auto Assault, Eve, COH, CO, WoW, Planetside, SWG, and DAoC.
I cannot recall a single time the preorder exclusives have ever been released after launch, much less being charged real money for them.
Metallurgist,
I am not really commenting upon the vast injustice that you feel was done to you, I was only pointing to how I judge the value of something. I judge it by its usefulness and by the pleasure it brings me. I am enjoying the items I have received, and others having them do not diminish that. Neither does the manner in which Cryptic handled this. I looked at what was available at the time, the costs associated with them, and then decided if it was worth it to me. The fact that things change monetary value down the road does not affect if it was a good value for me.
You must look to what motivated you to make that purchase and why you are now not happy with it. That is not for me to say, but I think a serious analysis of what motivates you to purchase things as well as to what leads to buyers remorse on your part would be helpful to you in gaining more satisfaction not only in this game but in all your purchases.
Thanks for the kind and reassuring words. However, action speaks louder than words. I've taken a conciliatory stance on this as soon as the "Bonus Items Into The C-Store" thread was created. In that thread and elsewhere on the forums plenty of people have given you guys ideas which would please both camps on this issue.
I won't rehash the ideas that were given because I don't believe you guys are listening at this point. Destra told us he was watching the thread and will continue to escalate our feedback. Many ideas to appease both sides were given over the weekend. Instead of hearing back on these ideas, the thread was closed without further comment on Tuesday.
Your actions basically say the opposite of what you wrote. You don't want to do anything extra for the people who made your subscriptions and box sale numbers look good at launch. You'd rather close the thread (close the door, if you will) and hope this will all go away. Written off as yet another weekly scheduled riot...
Your actions have told us you don't want to spend any resources on making early adopters happy as well. You took our money then shut the door on us. You didn't even make EVERYTHING non-exclusive out of fairness. (All bonus items should have been in the C-Store at launch but you used them to sell retail boxes instead!) You could do something to make amends but you rather not.
Like I said before, this is but one of many marketing fiascoes that we've been through. My trust is broken now, my friend. STO is the last Cryptic game I will purchase.
Thanks again for the kind words.
While the lifers can't really leave the game, I can. Everyone is saying that actions speak louder than words and I have been watching this thread to see if anything will happen. It won't. I will vote with my wallet... I might have to check back at a later time to see if anything changes...til then....
this must be your first expierence with an mmo. I being a normal person have a reasonable expectation of what mmo companies can do no one forced you to buy multiple copies of the game and if you did not like the terms of service I am quite sure that when you bought the game you could have returned it very early on atari was offering refunds to people who were dissatisfied so you feeling disenfranchised is your own fault.
also what does the CO ToS state? for the most part they are all the same in the area that they can change what they want when they want!
So you're asying anyone who hasn't played ann mmo before isn't normal? wow conceited much?
For the same reason that it matters if someone counterfeits the exclusive badges for the more expensive edition of a car. It trivializes the amount of money I spent on the game..
So, in the end you want people to be able to look at your character and his stuff and say "Wow! Look at all the money that person invested in STO..." Seriously? Or is it that you somehow feel sligheted by Cryptic is that, since you gave them more money, that should translate into more special treatment for your characters in game, or that somehow, your opinion on anything regard STO should cary more weight then your 'average STO subscriber"?
I really do not mean the above as a dig; but would be curious about an answer only because that's how the above comment comes across in that what you're really upset about is you spent a lot of money one STO, but Cryptic isn't treating you 'special enough' for spending all that money on STO.
On the flipside though, with the decision they have made; it gives them an increased cash flow and more overall revenue to expand STO, add more content and game features and update and addgame systems that subscribers are requesting which in the long run will make STO a BETTER more enoyable game to play.
So, in the end, what would you rather see? More special treatment for a small subset of subscribers that allows them to better flaunt their 'dedication' to STO; or the ability (and funding) that allows the Devs to expand and make STO a better game for all subscribers?
Thanks for pointing this out. I'll make sure it gets fixed ASAP.
Stormshade
Fixed? As in removing those words so it will look like they were never there?
I don't understand what you mean with that you will make sure it gets fixed asap.
Metallurgist,
I am not really commenting upon the vast injustice that you feel was done to you
I know you're not, because if you think that I feel a vast injustice was done to me, then you've either been not actually reading the content of what I've said or you've been only reading it with haet tinted glasses.
I was only pointing to how I judge the value of something. I judge it by its usefulness and by the pleasure it brings me. I am enjoying the items I have received, and others having them do not diminish that. Neither does the manner in which Cryptic handled this. I looked at what was available at the time, the costs associated with them, and then decided if it was worth it to me. The fact that things change monetary value down the road does not affect if it was a good value for me.
This is precisely why I've repeatedly said that I am glad the stuff is in CStore, I'm just not happy that Cryptic's marketing team decided to violate trust by either creative interpretation of the sales contract or just ignoring that it even exists in the first place. I think you're unable to tell the difference between "Cryptic should not have put these items up on CStore" and "These items shouldn't have been sold as exclusives and should have been on CStore in the first place, or at least the advertisement should have said "early and free access to the following items which will later appear in CStore." While in the case of the MU uniform, they should have denoted "This uniform will become available on the CStore 4 months after the game's release for the CP equivilent of $3.50 USD."
I'm not exactly sure why you're unable to comprehend; it's not about the items, it's about the trust. I'm sorry if you're so acquisitive that it's about the items for you. For me it's about not being able to trust anything Cryptic's marketing department says about what they're selling. That is the only ONLY issue that I and many others have. "We cannot trust Cryptic's marketing department about what they're selling." Look beyond the CStore items, see the lack of trust. Stop being so acquisitive and start being inquisitive.
You must look to what motivated you to make that purchase and why you are now not happy with it. That is not for me to say, but I think a serious analysis of what motivates you to purchase things as well as to what leads to buyers remorse on your part would be helpful to you in gaining more satisfaction not only in this game but in all your purchases.[/COLOR]
You know what motivated me to make the purchase? The fact that they made zero indication that it would be available 4 months after release for $3.50. What motivated me to make the purchase is the fact that at the time, Cryptic had yet to show even an ounce of untrustworthiness. About a week after I bought the CO LTS, they stopped selling the CO LTS despite the fact that the original advertisements said "Available until September 1st". That was the first sign of untrustworthiness, and it hadn't happened yet.
When they announced the STO LTS, I snatched it up before they cut off the sales. Then I watched the STO LTS like a hawk to see if they cut it off before the date they said they would cut it off. They did not. This completely reversed my opinion of Cryptic's marketing team. I trusted the marketing team again. I still think there's hope. I still think the marketing team can learn about how to do business without coming off looking like the illegitimate lovechild between a 19th century yankee trader and a Ferengi.
That's why I'm being vocal and encourage others to do the same. Trust has been lost, but it's not the end of the world. The fact that people like you can't see the crux of the issue, but rather zoom in on the acquisitive side of things instead of the inquisitive side boggles me. Are you really so materialistic that you enjoy the fact that Cryptic can do no harm as long as you get swag out of it?
All I want is to know that when Cryptic's next promotional deal comes out that I'll be able to trust the advertised terms of that promotional deal. Again, the items should have either been in the CStore from the start and the advertisement reads "you get this cstore item for free" or the advertisement should have read "exclusive, early access to this cstore item".
Once again, just to get it into your head. The problem is not that the items were released. The problem is about the fact that the advertisements were not forthright in their wording.
Metellurgist, you should change the title of the thread to encompass pretty much all the promotions that Cryptic introduced. Unfortunately, Lifetime exclusives arn't the only items that Cryptic decided to have em available for petty amount of $$. =(
Anyhow, I agree with you. I am betting that Cryltic will make the Referral Promotion exclusives available as well, through C-Store or other "easier" venue.
So, in the end you want people to be able to look at your character and his stuff and say "Wow! Look at all the money that person invested in STO..." Seriously? Or is it that you somehow feel sligheted by Cryptic is that, since you gave them more money, that should translate into more special treatment for your characters in game, or that somehow, your opinion on anything regard STO should cary more weight then your 'average STO subscriber"?
That's not at all what I'm saying. The way you word it, it sounds like I'm greedy. No, it's more about wanting to be able to identify myself as being a fan and supporter of Cryptic. Like how my mother says "I was a fan of Elvis before he was super popular. Here, look, I even have the first album he published." It's not about greed, it's about publicly expressing the level of my fandom. Sadly, the level of my fandom has diminished greatly as a result of this fiasco.
You ever notice how when people mean something in a negative way, they often qualify it to the contrary? Like "I'm not trying to be mean or anything but your breath stinks". That kind of thing. Anyway, continue.
but would be curious about an answer only because that's how the above comment comes across in that what you're really upset about is you spent a lot of money one STO, but Cryptic isn't treating you 'special enough' for spending all that money on STO.
Sure, it comes across that way if you take everything out of context and zero in on individual sentiments without taking the entire thing in the context of the whole. Some people have a field day picking apart various religious books in exactly the same manner.
On the flipside though, with the decision they have made; it gives them an increased cash flow and more overall revenue to expand STO, add more content and game features and update and addgame systems that subscribers are requesting which in the long run will make STO a BETTER more enoyable game to play.
And yet on the flip side to the flip side, Cryptic's marketing team now has very little credibility. Next time they have a promotional deal, they'll have far fewer people buying the promotional deal than previously. So in the long run, it gives them less money. Is that really healthy for Cryptic?
So, in the end, what would you rather see? More special treatment for a small subset of subscribers that allows them to better flaunt their 'dedication' to STO; or the ability (and funding) that allows the Devs to expand and make STO a better game for all subscribers?
In the end, I'd like to see myself with the kind of trust needed to buy those promotional deals. It doesn't matter if the stuff is going to be released in CStore, as long as it's clearly noted what the value of them will be in the CStore and the timeframe of temporary exclusivity before they're released. That's what I'd like to see, honest, upfront, on the level advertising.
Metellurgist, you should change the title of the thread to encompass pretty much all the promotions that Cryptic introduced. Unfortunately, Lifetime exclusives arn't the only items that Cryptic decided to have em available for petty amount of $$. =(
Anyhow, I agree with you. I am betting that Cryltic will make the Referral Promotion exclusives available as well, through C-Store or other "easier" venue.
Yeah, in hindsight I should have labled it "Much less likely to buy promotional items again." Suppose I'll do that now, if it'll let me.
Comments
Why don't we release the tacky looking lifetime combadges on cstore too? Heck, put it all up there, blue names, Career Officer title, Lib Borg species, that special sniper rifle, Chromodynamic Armor, Red Matter Capacitor, Automated Defense Turret, etc.
To be fair, the marketing department makes the decisions about things that generate revenue. That includes C-Store items. The developers are the ones who fix the bugs. And they have been doing a pretty good job of it so far. Yes, some bugs have gone unfixed for a while now. And if they had a solution for them, they would have been fixed by now.
Again, it is Cryptic Marketing that is responsible for this and all the other promotional debacles that have happened since launch. They are consistantly promoting the game to bring in new customers at the expense of their existing customers. The developers genuinely care about the game and try to give something to everyone. But Marketing has assumed a "We couldn't care less how you feel about it" approach to their decisions. They just railroad stuff through no matter what. I wish Atari would slap them down and say, "ENOUGH! It is commendable that you want to draw new people to the game, but how does it help when your methods drive people away?"
Cryptic won't do it internally. They'll fall all over themselves to defend one of their own rather than take them to task. I can honestly say that of all the MMO companies I have observed, Cryptic has the absolure worst marketing department. Even SOE stands a little higher in rating compared to them, and until now, I never would have thought that would be possible.
STO can become one of the greatest MMOs in the world. But Marketing needs to stop monkeying around with stuff that upsets and divides their existing player base. Advertise the game. Run promos about features. Make each feature look awesome without being misleading. Like I said previously, the weekly episodic mission series that is coming up could have a promo of each weekly mission. If pushed to gaming news sites, fan sites, and YouTube, it'll generate tons of interest. Then it won't be like giving STO a blood transfusion without closing an arterial wound.
Why should it matter as long as you get to put the game you like i thought that is why you bought the game to start with being a "core player" or a "Lifer" shouldn`t matter as long as you get to play the game
For the same reason that it matters if someone counterfeits the exclusive badges for the more expensive edition of a car. It trivializes the amount of money I spent on the game. First Cryptic says, and yes some of the representatives did say this in the forums "we're offering this to you if you buy it now, it will never be availible any other way, and this way you get to show people that you're one of the few people who really and truely believed in us." Then, they go and let everyone have it for a lot less money. We were deceived. Anyone who goes "oh well exclusive means this, this, and this" neglects the fact that questions were asked, question were answered, the answers to those questions were in direct opposition to what really happened.
I agree with that statement, which is why I support the addition of these items to the C-Store.
What upsets me is the attitude Cryptic seems to be conveying. The way they apologize to the people who feel slighted does not ring sincere. When someone complains about something, and the response is "I'm sorry that you feel that way, but..." What it boils down to is "Oh well," Which is the Marketing team's motto, based on the things they have done since launch...
So in short you want to feel special?...i give up you know this thread is pointless the last 90 pages, half of said this half of said that..ppl have put up links stating what was said the others don`t believe it etc etc ppl just see what they want to see and i feel like i`m talking to a brick wall, its clear that that issue won`t be solved at least not on these forums...at the end of the day THIS IS A GAME your meant to enjoy it if you`re getting this worked up over some free trinkets and the word "exclusive" theres something wrong, just play the game and try to enjoy or if you can`t leave for something else.....anyway this is my last look at this thread so i wish all posters (i.e both sides) the best of luck, if i see you ingame no hard feelings.
ps i don`t trust anyone....:D
Are some people getting a better deal than I? Very probably. Heck I spent $59, to purchase the game that is now available at Wally-World for $29. Does this bother me no, because I got to enjoy my purchase for the few months that I did that it was not available for $29.
This happens all the time. I often have to decide if I am going to purchase a game at full price or wait for it to be released as a best of for a third the original price. That is just the way things are. So I decide if something is what I want immediately or am I willing to wait, then if I decide to wait I then decide the price I am willing to pay and wait for it to drop to that price. For example when I saw the Tony Hawk skateboard for $120 last Christmas I decided I liked it but only $80 worth, so I did not pick it up then. Last week at Wally-World it was down to $80, so I bought it. In a few months it very probably be sold for less than that. I decided what it was worth to me and waited for it to be at the price I liked. The fact that I got it at $80 should not diminish the joy of those that got to have theirs for Christmas.
So any of you that go purchase items that I had as part of an early exclusive package, that has now gone to broader release, I say good for you. I have enjoyed them greatly, and hope you do as well.
StormShade,
Thanks for the kind and reassuring words. However, action speaks louder than words. I've taken a conciliatory stance on this as soon as the "Bonus Items Into The C-Store" thread was created. In that thread and elsewhere on the forums plenty of people have given you guys ideas which would please both camps on this issue.
I won't rehash the ideas that were given because I don't believe you guys are listening at this point. Destra told us he was watching the thread and will continue to escalate our feedback. Many ideas to appease both sides were given over the weekend. Instead of hearing back on these ideas, the thread was closed without further comment on Tuesday.
Your actions basically say the opposite of what you wrote. You don't want to do anything extra for the people who made your subscriptions and box sale numbers look good at launch. You'd rather close the thread (close the door, if you will) and hope this will all go away. Written off as yet another weekly scheduled riot...
Your actions have told us you don't want to spend any resources on making early adopters happy as well. You took our money then shut the door on us. You didn't even make EVERYTHING non-exclusive out of fairness. (All bonus items should have been in the C-Store at launch but you used them to sell retail boxes instead!) You could do something to make amends but you rather not.
Like I said before, this is but one of many marketing fiascoes that we've been through. My trust is broken now, my friend. STO is the last Cryptic game I will purchase.
Thanks again for the kind words.
As for myself, I think I got value for pre-ordering my lifetime subscribtion since it was free. I expensed it at work as competitive analysis
Ultimately I think many have learned that paying the nerd tax to be first in line has a very low value compared to waiting for a bargain in the cstore.
I don't think very many of the people who are upset about it are upset that the items themselves have been placed in the cstore so much as it is that it's a sign that Cryptic's marketing can't be trusted. It's like mixed feelings...These items should have been in cstore in the first place, and the marketing was deceptive, it should have given a time frame or at least mentioned that they would eventually be placed in cstore for a mere fraction of the cost.
I know a lot of people probably can't see the difference between being upset at the deceptive marketing and being upset that the items are in cstore. Of course there's also people who can't tell the difference between deception and blatant lying. There is a huge difference. Even the truth can be used to deceive. Deception is when you say something with the intention of manipulating people into doing things that they wouldn't do with the whole story. So telling a part of the truth but not the whole truth is deceptive. Using clever interpretation of words is deceptive. Making signature lines or letters out of extremely fine print is deceptive.
Anyone who says "it's not deception, because the words 'exclusive' and 'unique' can mean exactly what's happened." is basically saying - or at least in the way i interpret it - "it's not deception, because they used deceptive wording."
Again, it's not about the cstore/exclusive items that is the issue. The issue is the deception. It's the lack of trust. At least certain people in the marketing team need to be made to be figuratively strapped down to a photon torpedo firing tube and have a few empty torpedo casings fired out of the tube. It's a variation on an old maritime disciplinary action called "kissing the gunner's daughter".
Precisely.
To Stormshade: Which is worse? Having whining on the forums (it's going to happen either way), or having the career tarnishing credibility of the devil?
You have to remember that not all versions were available to every person that wanted them due to regional differences. Ignoring how you feel for a moment (try..) do you think it's fair that you were able to obtain items that others couldn't no matter how much they wanted to? I wasn't happy with the cost of the TOS Enterprise at 800 points but that's what I had to pay to get it.
Oh you mean the terms of service you would have signed AFTER you bought multiple copies of the game genius?
And the ToS that didnt exist for STO when the CO lifers bought their subscriptions?
Also how does you paying £15 on CP's equate to the £30-60 people would have paid for multiple issues of the game?
Whilst some people on here (even if I do consider them trolling or flaming) have reasonable counter arguments... yours certainly ISNT one of them!
You often seem to point out things like "We aren't trying to hurt people" or "We don't sit around thinking up ways to annoy our customers" when nobody is actually saying them but you. It would be better if you skipped the strawmen.
To be fair, I've seen lots of such posts on these forums. Usually couched in rhetoric so incendiary as to be self-parody, but there nonetheless. No-one who's been discussing this rationally has said Cryptic is actually trying to TRIBBLE over people, just that Cryptic or Atari marketing made a bad decision. But there've been enough people who've said Cryptic is some embodiment of willful malfeasance that I can see why Stormshade says that.
this must be your first expierence with an mmo. I being a normal person have a reasonable expectation of what mmo companies can do no one forced you to buy multiple copies of the game and if you did not like the terms of service I am quite sure that when you bought the game you could have returned it very early on atari was offering refunds to people who were dissatisfied so you feeling disenfranchised is your own fault.
also what does the CO ToS state? for the most part they are all the same in the area that they can change what they want when they want!
We didn't sign a eula or tos when we bought the CO LTS. CO hadn't been released when it was for sale
As for this being my first MMO, you are sorely mistaken.
I have subbed to: Eq1, Earth and Beyond, Auto Assault, Eve, COH, CO, WoW, Planetside, SWG, and DAoC.
I cannot recall a single time the preorder exclusives have ever been released after launch, much less being charged real money for them.
Thanks for pointing this out. I'll make sure it gets fixed ASAP.
Stormshade
I am not really commenting upon the vast injustice that you feel was done to you, I was only pointing to how I judge the value of something. I judge it by its usefulness and by the pleasure it brings me. I am enjoying the items I have received, and others having them do not diminish that. Neither does the manner in which Cryptic handled this. I looked at what was available at the time, the costs associated with them, and then decided if it was worth it to me. The fact that things change monetary value down the road does not affect if it was a good value for me.
You must look to what motivated you to make that purchase and why you are now not happy with it. That is not for me to say, but I think a serious analysis of what motivates you to purchase things as well as to what leads to buyers remorse on your part would be helpful to you in gaining more satisfaction not only in this game but in all your purchases.
While the lifers can't really leave the game, I can. Everyone is saying that actions speak louder than words and I have been watching this thread to see if anything will happen. It won't. I will vote with my wallet... I might have to check back at a later time to see if anything changes...til then....
So you're asying anyone who hasn't played ann mmo before isn't normal? wow conceited much?
OK, this made me L O L.
Out loud.
No problem
So, in the end you want people to be able to look at your character and his stuff and say "Wow! Look at all the money that person invested in STO..." Seriously? Or is it that you somehow feel sligheted by Cryptic is that, since you gave them more money, that should translate into more special treatment for your characters in game, or that somehow, your opinion on anything regard STO should cary more weight then your 'average STO subscriber"?
I really do not mean the above as a dig; but would be curious about an answer only because that's how the above comment comes across in that what you're really upset about is you spent a lot of money one STO, but Cryptic isn't treating you 'special enough' for spending all that money on STO.
On the flipside though, with the decision they have made; it gives them an increased cash flow and more overall revenue to expand STO, add more content and game features and update and addgame systems that subscribers are requesting which in the long run will make STO a BETTER more enoyable game to play.
So, in the end, what would you rather see? More special treatment for a small subset of subscribers that allows them to better flaunt their 'dedication' to STO; or the ability (and funding) that allows the Devs to expand and make STO a better game for all subscribers?
Fixed? As in removing those words so it will look like they were never there?
I don't understand what you mean with that you will make sure it gets fixed asap.
I know you're not, because if you think that I feel a vast injustice was done to me, then you've either been not actually reading the content of what I've said or you've been only reading it with haet tinted glasses.
This is precisely why I've repeatedly said that I am glad the stuff is in CStore, I'm just not happy that Cryptic's marketing team decided to violate trust by either creative interpretation of the sales contract or just ignoring that it even exists in the first place. I think you're unable to tell the difference between "Cryptic should not have put these items up on CStore" and "These items shouldn't have been sold as exclusives and should have been on CStore in the first place, or at least the advertisement should have said "early and free access to the following items which will later appear in CStore." While in the case of the MU uniform, they should have denoted "This uniform will become available on the CStore 4 months after the game's release for the CP equivilent of $3.50 USD."
I'm not exactly sure why you're unable to comprehend; it's not about the items, it's about the trust. I'm sorry if you're so acquisitive that it's about the items for you. For me it's about not being able to trust anything Cryptic's marketing department says about what they're selling. That is the only ONLY issue that I and many others have. "We cannot trust Cryptic's marketing department about what they're selling." Look beyond the CStore items, see the lack of trust. Stop being so acquisitive and start being inquisitive.
You know what motivated me to make the purchase? The fact that they made zero indication that it would be available 4 months after release for $3.50. What motivated me to make the purchase is the fact that at the time, Cryptic had yet to show even an ounce of untrustworthiness. About a week after I bought the CO LTS, they stopped selling the CO LTS despite the fact that the original advertisements said "Available until September 1st". That was the first sign of untrustworthiness, and it hadn't happened yet.
When they announced the STO LTS, I snatched it up before they cut off the sales. Then I watched the STO LTS like a hawk to see if they cut it off before the date they said they would cut it off. They did not. This completely reversed my opinion of Cryptic's marketing team. I trusted the marketing team again. I still think there's hope. I still think the marketing team can learn about how to do business without coming off looking like the illegitimate lovechild between a 19th century yankee trader and a Ferengi.
That's why I'm being vocal and encourage others to do the same. Trust has been lost, but it's not the end of the world. The fact that people like you can't see the crux of the issue, but rather zoom in on the acquisitive side of things instead of the inquisitive side boggles me. Are you really so materialistic that you enjoy the fact that Cryptic can do no harm as long as you get swag out of it?
All I want is to know that when Cryptic's next promotional deal comes out that I'll be able to trust the advertised terms of that promotional deal. Again, the items should have either been in the CStore from the start and the advertisement reads "you get this cstore item for free" or the advertisement should have read "exclusive, early access to this cstore item".
Once again, just to get it into your head. The problem is not that the items were released. The problem is about the fact that the advertisements were not forthright in their wording.
Anyhow, I agree with you. I am betting that Cryltic will make the Referral Promotion exclusives available as well, through C-Store or other "easier" venue.
That's not at all what I'm saying. The way you word it, it sounds like I'm greedy. No, it's more about wanting to be able to identify myself as being a fan and supporter of Cryptic. Like how my mother says "I was a fan of Elvis before he was super popular. Here, look, I even have the first album he published." It's not about greed, it's about publicly expressing the level of my fandom. Sadly, the level of my fandom has diminished greatly as a result of this fiasco.
You ever notice how when people mean something in a negative way, they often qualify it to the contrary? Like "I'm not trying to be mean or anything but your breath stinks". That kind of thing. Anyway, continue.
Sure, it comes across that way if you take everything out of context and zero in on individual sentiments without taking the entire thing in the context of the whole. Some people have a field day picking apart various religious books in exactly the same manner.
And yet on the flip side to the flip side, Cryptic's marketing team now has very little credibility. Next time they have a promotional deal, they'll have far fewer people buying the promotional deal than previously. So in the long run, it gives them less money. Is that really healthy for Cryptic?
In the end, I'd like to see myself with the kind of trust needed to buy those promotional deals. It doesn't matter if the stuff is going to be released in CStore, as long as it's clearly noted what the value of them will be in the CStore and the timeframe of temporary exclusivity before they're released. That's what I'd like to see, honest, upfront, on the level advertising.
Yeah, in hindsight I should have labled it "Much less likely to buy promotional items again." Suppose I'll do that now, if it'll let me.