Well, again, I think there is a flipside and a liability for the people trying to buy their way through.
You offer to buy a stranger the game and they may be someone with an existing account who uses your retail key to get a free 30 days.
You offer to give a stranger 1 million energy credits and they may not stick around past the 30 day mark. In which case, you're out a million (or maybe more, in some cases) credits and you're down a buddy key; we don't even know how you can get referral keys beyond the initial 5 but my guess is you don't get a new one until your referred buddy either subscribes or doesn't which means you have a 30 day waiting period (unless they buy lifetime or bulk gametime) and every time one of them decides not to stay, you're another month behind on your Galaxy X.
So you're out credits. You can't make the person stay. You're down a referral code for 30 days. And it will be ANOTHER 30 days before you can get the Galaxy.
It's simply not a good deal for the person offering unless they know and trust the person they're making the offer to or they can cope with losing whatever they're offering.
In my case with my offer to design somebody a captain, yeah, I'd be bummed if they didn't subscribe but, honestly, I'd only be out some free time designing their avatar and my goal is really just to get one referral. Five would be GREAT. But I just want one without dropping $45 of my own money to guarantee I get a holographic BO.
But if I was going to drop $45 of my own money per recruited account, I'd either set side accounts up for myself or try to get friends I trust to play. I certainly wouldn't trust strangers with it who could violate the agreement or resell the retail copy/code I give them.
The deals being offered range from okay to great for the prospective player but the people making the offers are setting themselves up for exploitation.
Well, again, I think there is a flipside and a liability for the people trying to buy their way through.
You offer to buy a stranger the game and they may be someone with an existing account who uses your retail key to get a free 30 days.
You offer to give a stranger 1 million energy credits and they may not stick around past the 30 day mark. In which case, you're out a million (or maybe more, in some cases) credits and you're down a buddy key; we don't even know how you can get referral keys beyond the initial 5 but my guess is you don't get a new one until your referred buddy either subscribes or doesn't which means you have a 30 day waiting period (unless they buy lifetime or bulk gametime) and every time one of them decides not to stay, you're another month behind on your Galaxy X.
So you're out credits. You can't make the person stay. You're down a referral code for 30 days. And it will be ANOTHER 30 days before you can get the Galaxy.
It's simply not a good deal for the person offering unless they know and trust the person they're making the offer to or they can cope with losing whatever they're offering.
In my case with my offer to design somebody a captain, yeah, I'd be bummed if they didn't subscribe but, honestly, I'd only be out some free time designing their avatar and my goal is really just to get one referral. Five would be GREAT. But I just want one without dropping $45 of my own money to guarantee I get a holographic BO.
But if I was going to drop $45 of my own money per recruited account, I'd either set side accounts up for myself or try to get friends I trust to play. I certainly wouldn't trust strangers with it who could violate the agreement or resell the retail copy/code I give them.
The deals being offered range from okay to great for the prospective player but the people making the offers are setting themselves up for exploitation.
LOL, right. Your the one talking about imaginary "violations" and then proceeding to act like the grammar police, and then you call me a hall monitor? Ironly FTW. And your right, I could care less about telling you what to think. You can think whatever you like, and be wrong.
LOL, right. Your the one talking about imaginary "violations" and then proceeding to act like the grammar police, and then you call me a hall monitor? Ironly FTW. And your right, I could care less about telling you what to think. You can think whatever you like, and be wrong.
I don't think she was saying it was against Cryptic policy, as you are arguing. She's just saying that a careful reading of the TOS indicates selling referrals for in-game currency is a violation.
And you've been a hall-monitoring Cryptic fan since forever. You should feel proud.
"I will give you 500,000 once the key is activated and the game is purchased, and 500,000 more in one month after the first subscription payment is made."
*edit* +1
Wait... OP offers people money if they subscribe to the game.
They get in game currency if they pay Cryptic.
Right... Feels like a gray area.
well, if you wanna go into all sorts of gray areas.. doesn't everyone here get "in game currency" for paying cryptic? you subscribe(which involves paying cryptic), you play the game, and you get in game currency for things like selling to vendors/replicators/auction houses.
i find no fault in giving people monetary incentive for using his referral code, though the latter half does become more of bribery than incentive.
More typo corrections from the person calling other people hall monitors. I love it
Nah, if I was a hall monitor or grammar police I would have also pointed out your use of "your" when you meant "you're". Or pointed out that you used irony wrong, when you meant coincidence.
Oh damn, I just did it again, I guess I am a hall monitor after all! I promise I'm not gunning for your job though!
I don't think she was saying it was against Cryptic policy, as you are arguing. She's just saying that a careful reading of the TOS indicates selling referrals for in-game currency is a violation.
And you've been a hall-monitoring Cryptic fan since forever. You should feel proud.
/cookie
Well to be fair to The Nagus, I never carefully read or claimed to carefully read the TOS on the typical subject. I was just giving my opinion that it should be a violation if other actions like spamming ads on selling accounts, commissioning artwork, selling gold, etc are against the TOS, but suddenly spamming advertisements of selling referrals for virtual cash, retail codes, or "hawt catgirl cyb0rz" is fine on the forums and in game on this occasion. It's all opinions, he can have his, I can have mine.
Or pointed out that you used irony wrong, when you meant coincidence.
Oh no, I meant irony. When you call someone else a hall monitor while trying to monitor them yourself, that is in fact irony. Pot meet kettle = irony, not coincidence.
It's all opinions, he can have his, I can have mine.
I never said you cant have an opinion. However, on Cryptic's forums they are the ones that set the rules. That is a fact, not an opinion. Getting to the point, if you say something is a violation and they say it isnt, then you are straight up wrong, and theres no way around it. There is no opinion about that.
Recruiting strangers for it is the bad idea. If the rewards are driving people to do that, surely there have to be comparable ways that existing players can improve the community and help expand and retain the subscriber base.
I'm not saying to scrap the rewards or put them in the C-Store or even award them in-game but just to identify at least some limited forms of contribution players can make that would result in the same or comparable rewards.
If people put the energy into other forms of viral marketing that we see just on these forums with Recruit-a-Friend deals targeting strangers, the results would be tangible and powerful.
Consider Zoot's idea of a player art contest (similar to the Warcraft fan art contests). Now imagine a monthly art contest for the same or similar rewards for recruiting 5 players and all the energy you'd see poured into it from the community.
Imagine Atari being able to submit player testimonials and fanmade recruitment posters to places like MMORPG.com, submitted by fans trying to show they deserve a Galaxy X starship.
I think you'd see a lot more than 5 recruits for every winner and finalist in this type of contest whose passion for recruitment would challenge people to pick up the game. And what better time to do that than over the next month and a half, as those new players will find themselves around to witness a lot of great Season 2 features go live first hand?
Rule 002 The best deal is the one that brings the most profit.
Rule 005 If you cant break a contract, bend it.
Rule 009 Opportunity plus instinct equals profit.
Rule 011 Even if its free, you can always buy it cheaper.
Rule 016 A deal is a deal. (until a better one comes along).
Rule 022 A wise man can hear profit in the wind.
Rule 029 Whats in it for me?
Rule 078 When the going gets tough, the tough change the Rules.
ya know while I personally wouldn't have the time or inclination to do this, I respect those who are doing it. All this talk of grey areas and morals("morals" i mean comon dramtic?) is a bit silly. There is an incetive both sides of the coin obviously, but no one with a brain is going to buy the game JUST because they can get IN GAME money...I wouldn't part with REAL cash to get FAKE cash unless...(guess what) I was ALREADY thinking about buying/trying the game!!! It's not a money transaction..it's a player offered incentive. There is no terms of agreement regarduing real cash..no one has to sign up for a year..so where is this grey area?
The grey area is being forged by a couple of people in this thread. What bothers me is if they keep it up they could well create a problem where there was none. Why do I find that a problem?
Simply because if(and indigo could not have made this any more clear) it isn't against the TOS, then it's not a problem is it? It's certainly not about how you "feel" or if "you" (that was a generic "you" btw :P ) see it as a "grey area" gm'as are currently ok wit it, the TOS permits it. End of surely??
I am glad of people doing this(and suprised at thier energy..regardless of what they get) and trying to give people one extra incentive to come and join us i this game, Thats awesome! rather than all the post flamming each other we have something constructive, it helps both cryptic and potentially the plauyer base( for reasons so obvious i wont list them).
It's really good to see people getting invloved like this and i certainly wont slate them for it, it also shows there is still plenty of excitement over this game...otherwise this woulld not be happening..it['s great. I just wish a few more players would support the guys doing this rather than try create an issue.
As long as people stay sensible then power to them generating busniness if it is within the rules is honorable and good for the community, and another avenue to bring in fresh players. This is great IMHO thanks to the people doing it, i know you get your perks but i still appreciate what you are doing.
ya know while I personally wouldn't have the time or inclination to do this, I respect those who are doing it. All this talk of grey areas and morals("morals" i mean comon dramtic?) is a bit silly. There is an incetive both sides of the coin obviously, but no one with a brain is going to buy the game JUST because they can get IN GAME money...I wouldn't part with REAL cash to get FAKE cash unless...(guess what) I was ALREADY thinking about buying/trying the game!!! It's not a money transaction..it's a player offered incentive. There is no terms of agreement regarduing real cash..no one has to sign up for a year..so where is this grey area?
The grey area is being forged by a couple of people in this thread. What bothers me is if they keep it up they could well create a problem where there was none. Why do I find that a problem?
Simply because if(and indigo could not have made this any more clear) it isn't against the TOS, then it's not a problem is it? It's certainly not about how you "feel" or if "you" (that was a generic "you" btw :P ) see it as a "grey area" gm'as are currently ok wit it, the TOS permits it. End of surely??
I am glad of people doing this(and suprised at thier energy..regardless of what they get) and trying to give people one extra incentive to come and join us i this game, Thats awesome! rather than all the post flamming each other we have something constructive, it helps both cryptic and potentially the plauyer base( for reasons so obvious i wont list them).
It's really good to see people getting invloved like this and i certainly wont slate them for it, it also shows there is still plenty of excitement over this game...otherwise this woulld not be happening..it['s great. I just wish a few more players would support the guys doing this rather than try create an issue.
As long as people stay sensible then power to them generating busniness if it is within the rules is honorable and good for the community, and another avenue to bring in fresh players. This is great IMHO thanks to the people doing it, i know you get your perks but i still appreciate what you are doing.
Heh, after Cygnus gets his 5, I wouldn't mind jumping on the bandwagon and offering the same thing. Heck, I'll do 500K/750K after he gets his 5. (I'll disregard any PMs until he's done, since I'd hate to 'steal' referrals)
If people are interested enough to get the game and look at this thread, I'm sure they wouldn't mind getting an extra 1-1.25 million EC to get the game rolling.
Another thing to keep in mind is a lot of us, myself included, are quite helpful in-game and I'm sure would treat anyone referred just as we would a fleetmate. With the 'jump-to' teleport ability around, I wouldn't mind taking a few hours a week helping out anyone I referred with anything they want, just for fun. I am on a PST schedule though, so if you're from Germany, I wouldn't count on my support all the time, lol.
i have a retail key i ahvent put in yet.are the offers of credits still good.can you trade skill points??
Yes, they should still be good. However, you're unable to trade skill points at all. The most we can do is fund your purchases as a beginner ship and invite you to our fleet, where fleetmates and ourselves could help out whenever you're in a pickle.
I'm sure Cygnus-X-1's offer of credits is still good. If for some reason he's already full-up or can't offer it, like I said earlier, I'd be glad to myself.
Oh, and another FYI, although this may be somewhat risky, (since it involves an email address) all referrals require an email address. You'll likely get a quicker response if you included it in your message regarding the referral, since it'll be one less game of PM-tag you'll have to play. If it's not allowed (I haven't throughly scanned any of the ToS or explicit rules regarding the forums), disregard what I said. Although, I think that's the most legit means of referring someone via the STO forums, since there's really no other contact method I can think of off the top of my head.
Heh, after Cygnus gets his 5, I wouldn't mind jumping on the bandwagon and offering the same thing. Heck, I'll do 500K/750K after he gets his 5. (I'll disregard any PMs until he's done, since I'd hate to 'steal' referrals)
If people are interested enough to get the game and look at this thread, I'm sure they wouldn't mind getting an extra 1-1.25 million EC to get the game rolling.
Another thing to keep in mind is a lot of us, myself included, are quite helpful in-game and I'm sure would treat anyone referred just as we would a fleetmate. With the 'jump-to' teleport ability around, I wouldn't mind taking a few hours a week helping out anyone I referred with anything they want, just for fun. I am on a PST schedule though, so if you're from Germany, I wouldn't count on my support all the time, lol.
IONFONE, thank you for being considerate and waiting. I have 3 keys redeemed and 5 that are pending so feel free to help out anyone that also needs a key. As my 5 pending keys get redeemed and I get replacements, I will be sending them out. The offer still stands, so if you'd like to be on the short-list for the energy credit bonus then PM your email addy.
As IONFONE mentioned, besides the credits, I am more than willing to assist you getting started in the game and taking advantage of the referral bonuses that come with the key. In fact, it is part of our fleet charter (which you can link to thru my sig) to assist all players in need.
IONFONE, thank you for being considerate and waiting. I have 3 keys redeemed and 5 that are pending so feel free to help out anyone that also needs a key. As my 5 pending keys get redeemed and I get replacements, I will be sending them out. The offer still stands, so if you'd like to be on the short-list for the energy credit bonus then PM your email addy.
As IONFONE mentioned, besides the credits, I am more than willing to assist you getting started in the game and taking advantage of the referral bonuses that come with the key. In fact, it is part of our fleet charter (which you can link to thru my sig) to assist all players in need.
Shorah b'shemtee :cool:
If anyone needs more referrals or you exceed the 5 required, just send 'em my way please. I'll match whatever reasonable 'starter' EC amount and be happy to help/party out as long as it doesn't take me away from my out-of-game scheduling.
On a couple sidenotes, how does redeeming the referral bonuses even work out? I wouldn't be suprised if they were bugged for a while, while Cryptic gets everything straightened out in the meantime.
Comments
You offer to buy a stranger the game and they may be someone with an existing account who uses your retail key to get a free 30 days.
You offer to give a stranger 1 million energy credits and they may not stick around past the 30 day mark. In which case, you're out a million (or maybe more, in some cases) credits and you're down a buddy key; we don't even know how you can get referral keys beyond the initial 5 but my guess is you don't get a new one until your referred buddy either subscribes or doesn't which means you have a 30 day waiting period (unless they buy lifetime or bulk gametime) and every time one of them decides not to stay, you're another month behind on your Galaxy X.
So you're out credits. You can't make the person stay. You're down a referral code for 30 days. And it will be ANOTHER 30 days before you can get the Galaxy.
It's simply not a good deal for the person offering unless they know and trust the person they're making the offer to or they can cope with losing whatever they're offering.
In my case with my offer to design somebody a captain, yeah, I'd be bummed if they didn't subscribe but, honestly, I'd only be out some free time designing their avatar and my goal is really just to get one referral. Five would be GREAT. But I just want one without dropping $45 of my own money to guarantee I get a holographic BO.
But if I was going to drop $45 of my own money per recruited account, I'd either set side accounts up for myself or try to get friends I trust to play. I certainly wouldn't trust strangers with it who could violate the agreement or resell the retail copy/code I give them.
The deals being offered range from okay to great for the prospective player but the people making the offers are setting themselves up for exploitation.
It goes to show why the RAF isn't a good idea.
"Ironly FTW", indeed!
I don't think she was saying it was against Cryptic policy, as you are arguing. She's just saying that a careful reading of the TOS indicates selling referrals for in-game currency is a violation.
And you've been a hall-monitoring Cryptic fan since forever. You should feel proud.
/cookie
More typo corrections from the person calling other people hall monitors. I love it
Oh yes, I cant do anything but just praise the game and suck up to the Devs. I'm such a Cryptic fan boy :rolleyes:
well, if you wanna go into all sorts of gray areas.. doesn't everyone here get "in game currency" for paying cryptic? you subscribe(which involves paying cryptic), you play the game, and you get in game currency for things like selling to vendors/replicators/auction houses.
i find no fault in giving people monetary incentive for using his referral code, though the latter half does become more of bribery than incentive.
RAF is a GREAT idea....to make money. If you dispute that that is all Cryptic is interested in.....well then....lol
Nah, if I was a hall monitor or grammar police I would have also pointed out your use of "your" when you meant "you're". Or pointed out that you used irony wrong, when you meant coincidence.
Oh damn, I just did it again, I guess I am a hall monitor after all! I promise I'm not gunning for your job though!
---
Well to be fair to The Nagus, I never carefully read or claimed to carefully read the TOS on the typical subject. I was just giving my opinion that it should be a violation if other actions like spamming ads on selling accounts, commissioning artwork, selling gold, etc are against the TOS, but suddenly spamming advertisements of selling referrals for virtual cash, retail codes, or "hawt catgirl cyb0rz" is fine on the forums and in game on this occasion. It's all opinions, he can have his, I can have mine.
Oh no, I meant irony. When you call someone else a hall monitor while trying to monitor them yourself, that is in fact irony. Pot meet kettle = irony, not coincidence.
Its cool, you can have it since you seem to enjoy it so much.
I never said you cant have an opinion. However, on Cryptic's forums they are the ones that set the rules. That is a fact, not an opinion. Getting to the point, if you say something is a violation and they say it isnt, then you are straight up wrong, and theres no way around it. There is no opinion about that.
Cash in ST:O is pointless since everything but consoles is bartered for anyway.
RAF is a great idea.
Recruiting strangers for it is the bad idea. If the rewards are driving people to do that, surely there have to be comparable ways that existing players can improve the community and help expand and retain the subscriber base.
I'm not saying to scrap the rewards or put them in the C-Store or even award them in-game but just to identify at least some limited forms of contribution players can make that would result in the same or comparable rewards.
If people put the energy into other forms of viral marketing that we see just on these forums with Recruit-a-Friend deals targeting strangers, the results would be tangible and powerful.
Consider Zoot's idea of a player art contest (similar to the Warcraft fan art contests). Now imagine a monthly art contest for the same or similar rewards for recruiting 5 players and all the energy you'd see poured into it from the community.
Imagine Atari being able to submit player testimonials and fanmade recruitment posters to places like MMORPG.com, submitted by fans trying to show they deserve a Galaxy X starship.
I think you'd see a lot more than 5 recruits for every winner and finalist in this type of contest whose passion for recruitment would challenge people to pick up the game. And what better time to do that than over the next month and a half, as those new players will find themselves around to witness a lot of great Season 2 features go live first hand?
Why is it bad?
to Honor The Grand Negus:
Rule 002 The best deal is the one that brings the most profit.
Rule 005 If you cant break a contract, bend it.
Rule 009 Opportunity plus instinct equals profit.
Rule 011 Even if its free, you can always buy it cheaper.
Rule 016 A deal is a deal. (until a better one comes along).
Rule 022 A wise man can hear profit in the wind.
Rule 029 Whats in it for me?
Rule 078 When the going gets tough, the tough change the Rules.
The grey area is being forged by a couple of people in this thread. What bothers me is if they keep it up they could well create a problem where there was none. Why do I find that a problem?
Simply because if(and indigo could not have made this any more clear) it isn't against the TOS, then it's not a problem is it? It's certainly not about how you "feel" or if "you" (that was a generic "you" btw :P ) see it as a "grey area" gm'as are currently ok wit it, the TOS permits it. End of surely??
I am glad of people doing this(and suprised at thier energy..regardless of what they get) and trying to give people one extra incentive to come and join us i this game, Thats awesome! rather than all the post flamming each other we have something constructive, it helps both cryptic and potentially the plauyer base( for reasons so obvious i wont list them).
It's really good to see people getting invloved like this and i certainly wont slate them for it, it also shows there is still plenty of excitement over this game...otherwise this woulld not be happening..it['s great. I just wish a few more players would support the guys doing this rather than try create an issue.
As long as people stay sensible then power to them generating busniness if it is within the rules is honorable and good for the community, and another avenue to bring in fresh players. This is great IMHO thanks to the people doing it, i know you get your perks but i still appreciate what you are doing.
Thank you for your support :cool:
If people are interested enough to get the game and look at this thread, I'm sure they wouldn't mind getting an extra 1-1.25 million EC to get the game rolling.
Another thing to keep in mind is a lot of us, myself included, are quite helpful in-game and I'm sure would treat anyone referred just as we would a fleetmate. With the 'jump-to' teleport ability around, I wouldn't mind taking a few hours a week helping out anyone I referred with anything they want, just for fun. I am on a PST schedule though, so if you're from Germany, I wouldn't count on my support all the time, lol.
Yes, they should still be good. However, you're unable to trade skill points at all. The most we can do is fund your purchases as a beginner ship and invite you to our fleet, where fleetmates and ourselves could help out whenever you're in a pickle.
I'm sure Cygnus-X-1's offer of credits is still good. If for some reason he's already full-up or can't offer it, like I said earlier, I'd be glad to myself.
Oh, and another FYI, although this may be somewhat risky, (since it involves an email address) all referrals require an email address. You'll likely get a quicker response if you included it in your message regarding the referral, since it'll be one less game of PM-tag you'll have to play. If it's not allowed (I haven't throughly scanned any of the ToS or explicit rules regarding the forums), disregard what I said. Although, I think that's the most legit means of referring someone via the STO forums, since there's really no other contact method I can think of off the top of my head.
Only energy credits and items can be traded.
So you can not trade skill points, bridge officer points, badges/medals/marks or merits/honor points.
IONFONE, thank you for being considerate and waiting. I have 3 keys redeemed and 5 that are pending so feel free to help out anyone that also needs a key. As my 5 pending keys get redeemed and I get replacements, I will be sending them out. The offer still stands, so if you'd like to be on the short-list for the energy credit bonus then PM your email addy.
As IONFONE mentioned, besides the credits, I am more than willing to assist you getting started in the game and taking advantage of the referral bonuses that come with the key. In fact, it is part of our fleet charter (which you can link to thru my sig) to assist all players in need.
Shorah b'shemtee :cool:
If anyone needs more referrals or you exceed the 5 required, just send 'em my way please. I'll match whatever reasonable 'starter' EC amount and be happy to help/party out as long as it doesn't take me away from my out-of-game scheduling.
On a couple sidenotes, how does redeeming the referral bonuses even work out? I wouldn't be suprised if they were bugged for a while, while Cryptic gets everything straightened out in the meantime.