Dude.
T5 Galaxy =! Galaxy X
Galaxy X = 3 nacelles
what ship we're not getting outside of the referall program = ship with 3 nacelles
hence
We're not getting the Galaxy X unless we shill like madmen.
Agreed, how is a non 3 nacelled, non-cannoned Galaxy going to give me a similar ship that will not make me angry?
Well, regardless, it's a terrible decision as it stands and if they actually care about their playerbase they will make it available by other means down the road.
Well, regardless, it's a terrible decision as it stands and if they actually care about their playerbase they will make it available by other means down the road.
A big if though.
Anytime a promotion runs, the have-nots will take it as a bourgeois offense.
I completely agree that making (at least the appearance) available through other means will be cool down the road.
There's no shame in having a limited run promotion (as the fine print suggests). After all, if the offer expires, I can see that as being reason enough to open it up as an accolade.
So yes - the Future Enterprise - 3 Nacelle config is an exclusive "variant" and may be the only T5 Galaxy for a while, but there will be ways to get similar ships in the future - they just might not have the 3rd Nacelle - or front mount single phaser cannon.
3 nacelled "future Enterprise" is an "exclusive variant".
Vague promises are made about other ships, but not this one.
Frankly, shilling the Galaxy X like this is basically a confession on Cryptic's part that STO can't stand on it's own merits.
Here's a ship design that a lot of people have said they wanted. So what do they do? Put it on the c-store? Make it a vet reward? Make it an upgrade for in-game merit? No! They dangle it in front of us like a carrot from a stick and tell us to not only convince 5 people to try the game, but to badger them into making at least a one-month sub.
"If you were REALLY my friend you'd put down the money so I can get a Galaxy X!"
Brilliant.
I agree... this really is ridiculous. And currently, the game is still unfinished. Why invite people to a game that is still in paid beta mode?
It doesn't to me - dstahl left it deliberately vague (removing the third nacelle was only one of the options he listed, afterall).
It's being discussed - which means this thread might not be entirely in vain.
Not to go on and on about this, but he mentioned "other, similar" ships won't have 3 nacelles, or the big phaser cannon.
3 nacelles and the big phaser cannon are what define the Galaxy X.
Hmmm Cryptic with another money grubbing bad decision? That's odd it's not Friday. They usually wait till Friday to drop these things on us so we can rage all weekend. Seriously why would I do that to five people? I guess they think we really do hurt the ones we love the most. Mother's day and Father's day is coming up.......
I agree... this really is ridiculous. And currently, the game is still unfinished. Why invite people to a game that is still in paid beta mode?
Great point.
Right now it actually isn't a good idea to try to solicit more people for STO. The game is NOT in a state where it's going to keep very many people who reach RA5 and realize "oh TRIBBLE, there is NOTHING for me to do!"
In most MMO's, reacing max level is when "life begins". In STO, it's "Game Over, roll a new toon and play again".
Also, I resent being asked to do marketing's job FOR them. Forget marketing. A great product sells itself. If you need tricks, gimmicks, and "clever marketing" it's because your product sucks and you need to trick people into buying it.
Right now it actually isn't a good idea to try to solicit more people for STO. The game is NOT in a state where it's going to keep very many people who reach RA5 and realize "oh TRIBBLE, there is NOTHING for me to do!"
In most MMO's, reacing max level is when "life begins". In STO, it's "Game Over, roll a new toon and play again".
Also, I resent being asked to do marketing's job FOR them. Forget marketing. A great product sells itself. If you need tricks, gimmicks, and "clever marketing" it's because your product sucks and you need to trick people into buying it.
I don't know if I would say life begins at max level but even if it did that is not IMO the biggest reason STO is failing. The lack of replay value is the biggest reason I think. Roll a new toon? What for it's all the same skills, missions, and ships. Ooooooh you get a few different clicky abilities depending on your class. Big deal.
I agree... this really is ridiculous. And currently, the game is still unfinished. Why invite people to a game that is still in paid beta mode?
The same reason they played DDO, Vanguard, and SWG at their original launches?
EVE only side-stepped this by having players generate virtually everything (the price was almost no direction for those that wanted it - eliminating many players until they improved the tutorial/missions later on).
A great product sells itself. If you need tricks, gimmicks, and "clever marketing" it's because your product sucks and you need to trick people into buying it.
Tell this to the cast and crew of Arrested Development.
The show wasn't able to sell itself and the marketers weren't as clever as the writing crew. It got cancelled.
This whole thread has been a storm about nothing.
Nobody is entitles to all the things in the game. Some things are not for you unless you jump through the hoops to get them. But it's Cryptic. When they feel enough time has passed or that the referral is not working they will put it in the c-store and everyone will have one.
But the fact that people think they 'should' have one by easier means just gives me glee for how right I am about most of this community.
This whole thread has been a storm about nothing.
Nobody is entitles to all the things in the game. Some things are not for you unless you jump through the hoops to get them. But it's Cryptic. When they feel enough time has passed or that the referral is not working they will put it in the c-store and everyone will have one.
But the fact that people think they 'should' have one by easier means just gives me glee for how right I am about most of this community.
And you honestly, truly think getting 5 people to subscribe is a good price to pay for something a lot of us really, really want?
That it's not cynical or money-grubbing at all?
If you do then it proves something alright, but not about us.
The big problem with this is that most people who have friends who would be interested in the game already subscribed together with them. Getting another five people who were not interested in playing the game at launch is pretty difficult.
The "All Good Things Galaxy" is probably one of the most sought after items. I'm not really convinced it should even be in the C-Store, but at least it should be available there. There is a history in ST of ships being refitted, so I see no reason to think a refitted Galaxy class would be rare.
On the rarity of refits, actually considering there's a war on, most existing Galaxys would be refitted to the new design if it proved superior.
In DS9 all Galaxys were already refitted to the "War Galaxy" variant for the Dominion War (some external differences but mainly refitting the internals to get rid of all that family nonsense), there's no reason why Starfleet wouldn't do so again.
And you honestly, truly think getting 5 people to subscribe is a good price to pay for something a lot of us really, really want?
That it's not cynical or money-grubbing at all?
If you do then it proves something alright, but not about us.
no not at all. But you only wanted it when you saw it. "mommy, that kid has cake I NEED cake too"
What I think is that it's more cosmetic fluff that means nothing. The most important thing is that I could not live with the abuse I got from the betrayal of making 5 friends pay for this so i could get a toy.
so if it's for referrer's it's for referrer's and not you. Jog on.
I don't know if I would say life begins at max level but even if it did that is not IMO the biggest reason STO is failing. The lack of replay value is the biggest reason I think. Roll a new toon? What for it's all the same skills, missions, and ships. Ooooooh you get a few different clicky abilities depending on your class. Big deal.
This is why it was a mistake for them to close the skill system. They should have expanded it and made it infinite, like EVE's.
That way there would at least be something to accomplish besides repeating the same (3) RAID quests over and over again. I know they plan to make the leveling episodes repeatable (which will help some), but how long is that going to satisfy people for content? There are missions I'd not mind playing again, but it probably wouldn't be long before I didn't want to do that any more.
The best argument for sandbox systems is that they, by their nature, allow players to make their own content, and they increase replay value.
This is why it was a mistake for them to close the skill system. They should have expanded it and made it infinite, like EVE's.
That way there would at least be something to accomplish besides repeating the same (3) RAID quests over and over again. I know they plan to make the leveling episodes repeatable (which will help some), but how long is that going to satisfy people for content? There are missions I'd not mind playing again, but it probably wouldn't be long before I didn't want to do that any more.
The best argument for sandbox systems is that they, by their nature, allow players to make their own content, and they increase replay value.
They are also the hardest when it comes to accessibility and bugs. Also, some people hated the uncapped system in EVE (this is why games can't please everyone).
I like EVE, I also like STO.
That said, going back On Topic, the game is heading in some positive directions. Once the 1.1 bugs are fixed (and they're being looked into), Season 1.2 comes with some great goodies.
Cryptic needs a really good reward as an incentive to recruitment. Don't you understand that you benefit from players recruiting more players? The more people buy and/or subscribe to the game, the bigger the development budget. If the number of paying subscriptions falls below a certain point, they pull the plug on the entire game, turn off the servers and go home.
Even if you don't personally recruit anyone, even if you don't get any of the nifty exclusives, you want the exclusives to be really good and really exclusive because the end result is more players, a chance for more development money for future content and less of a chance the game servers get shut down.
The problem with STO's skill system is not that it's capped or uncapped, it's that it's capped when it was designed to be uncapped.
They made a system that only really works uncapped, then realised they wanted to sell respecs in the c-store so placed an arbitrary cap.
The problem with STO's skill system is not that it's capped or uncapped, it's that it's capped when it was designed to be uncapped.
They made a system that only really works uncapped, then realised they wanted to sell respecs in the c-store so placed an arbitrary cap.
Worst design decision ever.
That and it's the most cryptic system I have ever seen. What the heck does +4 do anyway?
The problem with STO's skill system is not that it's capped or uncapped, it's that it's capped when it was designed to be uncapped.
They made a system that only really works uncapped, then realised they wanted to sell respecs in the c-store so placed an arbitrary cap.
Worst design decision ever.
What CCP did with their skill system was make it so huge that no one will ever learn every single skill at max level. And they've added to it over the years.
Cryptic could do something similar with this game, if there were actual non "kill everything that moves" things to do in the game, they could add skills for those.
The problem with STO's skill system is not that it's capped or uncapped, it's that it's capped when it was designed to be uncapped.
They made a system that only really works uncapped, then realised they wanted to sell respecs in the c-store so placed an arbitrary cap.
Worst design decision ever.
No, it was only uncapped for beta-testing purposes.
The respec in the c-store conspiracy falls apart when you:
1) Get some for free, in-game.
2) Can purchase one with merits.
The repsec is a relatively benign money grab - considering it's in-game for free (and earnable as well).
no not at all. But you only wanted it when you saw it. "mommy, that kid has cake I NEED cake too"
What I think is that it's more cosmetic fluff that means nothing. The most important thing is that I could not live with the abuse I got from the betrayal of making 5 friends pay for this so i could get a toy.
so if it's for referrer's it's for referrer's and not you. Jog on.
I'm not sure its about that, Zoot. What I think people are saying is that something like this should have been offered earlier on when many of them were getting into the game and recruiting their friends. Now that they've recruited their friends and helped build the game they feel they aren't getting rewarded for it unless they go out and recruit more friends.
Another reason is I think that some players are angry because they've been pushing for more STO Canon ships to be in the game and for a lot of those ships to be higher tier so they can continue playing with their favorite ship class into the endgame. Cryptic has been offering their own designs when some players feel they should be offering the canon designs everyone wants first and then offering their own creations. Now that they have finally offered a 'canon' design its a reward for recruiting five people in the game and getting them to sign on for a month when a lot of them have already done so if not done more and thus they're 'locked out' of it.
Personally, I don't feel all that strongly about the AGT Galaxy as a design, I want to hear more about this supposed 'super cannon' its got before I make any personal judgments on how unfair or game-breaking it is but I do understand where the angry players are coming from.
No, it was only uncapped for beta-testing purposes.
If you have a source for this, could you please link it? I'm not meaning to be a donkey about it; I just honestly don't remember that being said.
Also, it's kind of weird if the system was uncapped for testing, when (even two weeks or more after launch) the game itself still stated that we were receiving captain skill points after we reached the level cap.
The 3rd nacelle variant was done in conjunction with working on fixing up the Galaxy - and if you check out the Galaxy on Tribble - you'll notice it has been updated.
Multi-task!
And it still has some more work to be done on it.
There is a thread about it around here somewhere...
I'm not sure its about that, Zoot. What I think people are saying is that something like this should have been offered earlier on when many of them were getting into the game and recruiting their friends. Now that they've recruited their friends and helped build the game they feel they aren't getting rewarded for it unless they go out and recruit more friends.
Another reason is I think that some players are angry because they've been pushing for more STO Canon ships to be in the game and for a lot of those ships to be higher tier so they can continue playing with their favorite ship class into the endgame. Cryptic has been offering their own designs when some players feel they should be offering the canon designs everyone wants first and then offering their own creations. Now that they have finally offered a 'canon' design its a reward for recruiting five people in the game and getting them to sign on for a month when a lot of them have already done so if not done more and thus they're 'locked out' of it.
Personally, I don't feel all that strongly about the AGT Galaxy as a design, I want to hear more about this supposed 'super cannon' its got before I make any personal judgments on how unfair or game-breaking it is but I do understand where the angry players are coming from.
Why offer it earlier? There is absolutely no need to entice people to get new players to join when they are already doing it. The carrot has to arrive when the influx is no more than a trickle.
As for canon ships? Why this one. It appeared once. There are many ships that are not in game. Many had more screen time and certainly more official canon recognition in CBS/Paramount publications.
It's just a ship, a costume, they'll sell it and a hundred more to you as long as you keep paying the bills.
If players want new ships and cryptic don't have the staff or the time then why can't cryptic offer it out to the users. Some of us can model and texture wrap models without the need for a big team. CBS might not approve many, but they would certainly have a choice.
This whole thread has been a storm about nothing.
Nobody is entitles to all the things in the game. Some things are not for you unless you jump through the hoops to get them. But it's Cryptic. When they feel enough time has passed or that the referral is not working they will put it in the c-store and everyone will have one.
But the fact that people think they 'should' have one by easier means just gives me glee for how right I am about most of this community.
You're honestly fine with paying (a large financial outlay, either self-funded or suckering others) for a completely endgame-relevant item with unique mechanical effects in a subscription game?
Comments
Agreed, how is a non 3 nacelled, non-cannoned Galaxy going to give me a similar ship that will not make me angry?
A big if though.
He didn't say a 3 nacelle variant was out of the question.
It's still on the table.
Anytime a promotion runs, the have-nots will take it as a bourgeois offense.
I completely agree that making (at least the appearance) available through other means will be cool down the road.
There's no shame in having a limited run promotion (as the fine print suggests). After all, if the offer expires, I can see that as being reason enough to open it up as an accolade.
3 nacelled "future Enterprise" is an "exclusive variant".
Vague promises are made about other ships, but not this one.
There are no promises either way - it's still being debated.
Eh, seemed quite clear to me.
Then again this could turn into another version of the Great Phoxe DP Flipflop.
*Cryptic promises optional death penalty*
Phoxe: "Nothing is known about the DP at the moment but it will be optional!"
*Cryptic makes DP mandatory on all difficulties*
Phoxe: "There's no way DP could've been optional! It's impossible! IMPOSSIBLE!"
*Cryptic relents and removes DP entirely from normal mode*
I suppose one can't win.
It doesn't to me - dstahl left it deliberately vague (removing the third nacelle was only one of the options he listed, afterall).
It's being discussed - which means this thread might not be entirely in vain.
I agree... this really is ridiculous. And currently, the game is still unfinished. Why invite people to a game that is still in paid beta mode?
Not to go on and on about this, but he mentioned "other, similar" ships won't have 3 nacelles, or the big phaser cannon.
3 nacelles and the big phaser cannon are what define the Galaxy X.
Great point.
Right now it actually isn't a good idea to try to solicit more people for STO. The game is NOT in a state where it's going to keep very many people who reach RA5 and realize "oh TRIBBLE, there is NOTHING for me to do!"
In most MMO's, reacing max level is when "life begins". In STO, it's "Game Over, roll a new toon and play again".
Also, I resent being asked to do marketing's job FOR them. Forget marketing. A great product sells itself. If you need tricks, gimmicks, and "clever marketing" it's because your product sucks and you need to trick people into buying it.
I don't know if I would say life begins at max level but even if it did that is not IMO the biggest reason STO is failing. The lack of replay value is the biggest reason I think. Roll a new toon? What for it's all the same skills, missions, and ships. Ooooooh you get a few different clicky abilities depending on your class. Big deal.
The same reason they played DDO, Vanguard, and SWG at their original launches?
EVE only side-stepped this by having players generate virtually everything (the price was almost no direction for those that wanted it - eliminating many players until they improved the tutorial/missions later on).
Tell this to the cast and crew of Arrested Development.
The show wasn't able to sell itself and the marketers weren't as clever as the writing crew. It got cancelled.
See David Cross "Tobias Funke" talk about a show that should've been able to sell-itself (but wasn't):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeFV5GprfaQ
Marketing could've saved that showed.
Nobody is entitles to all the things in the game. Some things are not for you unless you jump through the hoops to get them. But it's Cryptic. When they feel enough time has passed or that the referral is not working they will put it in the c-store and everyone will have one.
But the fact that people think they 'should' have one by easier means just gives me glee for how right I am about most of this community.
And you honestly, truly think getting 5 people to subscribe is a good price to pay for something a lot of us really, really want?
That it's not cynical or money-grubbing at all?
If you do then it proves something alright, but not about us.
The "All Good Things Galaxy" is probably one of the most sought after items. I'm not really convinced it should even be in the C-Store, but at least it should be available there. There is a history in ST of ships being refitted, so I see no reason to think a refitted Galaxy class would be rare.
In DS9 all Galaxys were already refitted to the "War Galaxy" variant for the Dominion War (some external differences but mainly refitting the internals to get rid of all that family nonsense), there's no reason why Starfleet wouldn't do so again.
no not at all. But you only wanted it when you saw it. "mommy, that kid has cake I NEED cake too"
What I think is that it's more cosmetic fluff that means nothing. The most important thing is that I could not live with the abuse I got from the betrayal of making 5 friends pay for this so i could get a toy.
so if it's for referrer's it's for referrer's and not you. Jog on.
This is why it was a mistake for them to close the skill system. They should have expanded it and made it infinite, like EVE's.
That way there would at least be something to accomplish besides repeating the same (3) RAID quests over and over again. I know they plan to make the leveling episodes repeatable (which will help some), but how long is that going to satisfy people for content? There are missions I'd not mind playing again, but it probably wouldn't be long before I didn't want to do that any more.
The best argument for sandbox systems is that they, by their nature, allow players to make their own content, and they increase replay value.
They are also the hardest when it comes to accessibility and bugs. Also, some people hated the uncapped system in EVE (this is why games can't please everyone).
I like EVE, I also like STO.
That said, going back On Topic, the game is heading in some positive directions. Once the 1.1 bugs are fixed (and they're being looked into), Season 1.2 comes with some great goodies.
Cryptic needs a really good reward as an incentive to recruitment. Don't you understand that you benefit from players recruiting more players? The more people buy and/or subscribe to the game, the bigger the development budget. If the number of paying subscriptions falls below a certain point, they pull the plug on the entire game, turn off the servers and go home.
Even if you don't personally recruit anyone, even if you don't get any of the nifty exclusives, you want the exclusives to be really good and really exclusive because the end result is more players, a chance for more development money for future content and less of a chance the game servers get shut down.
They made a system that only really works uncapped, then realised they wanted to sell respecs in the c-store so placed an arbitrary cap.
Worst design decision ever.
That and it's the most cryptic system I have ever seen. What the heck does +4 do anyway?
What CCP did with their skill system was make it so huge that no one will ever learn every single skill at max level. And they've added to it over the years.
Cryptic could do something similar with this game, if there were actual non "kill everything that moves" things to do in the game, they could add skills for those.
The respec in the c-store conspiracy falls apart when you:
1) Get some for free, in-game.
2) Can purchase one with merits.
The repsec is a relatively benign money grab - considering it's in-game for free (and earnable as well).
I'm not sure its about that, Zoot. What I think people are saying is that something like this should have been offered earlier on when many of them were getting into the game and recruiting their friends. Now that they've recruited their friends and helped build the game they feel they aren't getting rewarded for it unless they go out and recruit more friends.
Another reason is I think that some players are angry because they've been pushing for more STO Canon ships to be in the game and for a lot of those ships to be higher tier so they can continue playing with their favorite ship class into the endgame. Cryptic has been offering their own designs when some players feel they should be offering the canon designs everyone wants first and then offering their own creations. Now that they have finally offered a 'canon' design its a reward for recruiting five people in the game and getting them to sign on for a month when a lot of them have already done so if not done more and thus they're 'locked out' of it.
Personally, I don't feel all that strongly about the AGT Galaxy as a design, I want to hear more about this supposed 'super cannon' its got before I make any personal judgments on how unfair or game-breaking it is but I do understand where the angry players are coming from.
If you have a source for this, could you please link it? I'm not meaning to be a donkey about it; I just honestly don't remember that being said.
Also, it's kind of weird if the system was uncapped for testing, when (even two weeks or more after launch) the game itself still stated that we were receiving captain skill points after we reached the level cap.
And it still has some more work to be done on it.
There is a thread about it around here somewhere...
Why offer it earlier? There is absolutely no need to entice people to get new players to join when they are already doing it. The carrot has to arrive when the influx is no more than a trickle.
As for canon ships? Why this one. It appeared once. There are many ships that are not in game. Many had more screen time and certainly more official canon recognition in CBS/Paramount publications.
It's just a ship, a costume, they'll sell it and a hundred more to you as long as you keep paying the bills.
If players want new ships and cryptic don't have the staff or the time then why can't cryptic offer it out to the users. Some of us can model and texture wrap models without the need for a big team. CBS might not approve many, but they would certainly have a choice.
You're honestly fine with paying (a large financial outlay, either self-funded or suckering others) for a completely endgame-relevant item with unique mechanical effects in a subscription game?