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Why is a Dev in a players' fleet?

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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Well the crying has succeeded - he left the fleet.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    This thread has to be the most ridiculous clap trap that has been on this forum to date. Honestly it wouldn't hurt my feeling one bit if the devs formed their own fleet and pwned all the ones complaining about this issue. At least then they would have something real to complain about.

    Don't we give these guys enough flak about all the important stuff that now we have to pick on them for being part of a player fleet.

    What I get confused over is what part of it's their game did everyone misunderstand.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Galdere wrote: »
    He showed everyone. I have said several valid reasons. I'm not having a go at him as an individual, I'm saying why don't they have the general rule. There are precedents.

    I was thinking of staying out of this, but you wont let me. So let me answer some of your concerns:

    1. you are looking at a toon that is played so frequently that it is only a lieutenant. (aka he doesn't ever play that toon).

    2. You are welcome to look at all of my toons or any of the toons in Omega Fleet and see just how many of us have any "special" items.

    3. Inside information? He is a WEBSITE DEVELOPER for Cryptic. Just how much inside info do you really think he has that would be of any use to us? (I am a cop, do you really think that my department's website developer has a clue about the investigations I have going on?) Before you come up with some smart axx answer. Diamonds has never told us anything about this game. In fact when he joined Omega Fleet we specifically told all members of Omega Fleet that they were never to ask him anything about what Cryptic was doing. And I have never seen or heard of a member violating this rule.

    4. You were quick to post a screen shot copy of our roster. Congratulations! But did you happen to notice that he is in the unassigned area of our Fleet? aka the members who are inactive???????

    The point of this is: please don't flame people. Diamonds has never done anything to you or anyone else. Let him be. He is a nice guy who just likes play games with friends and not have to play them alone.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Yeah, I have to admit. This whole thing has been done in poor form. As a playerbase we should be encouraging the devs to play with us, team with us, join our fleets(supergroups) and whatever else. At the risk of beating THAT dead horse, I'm still a rabid player of CoH, I've grouped with alot of devs. Knowingly and unknowingly. Had em in SG's with me in the early days of SGs and I know for a fact that some people have even been in game and spoken with devs over the phone when looking for bugs in game, etc. You tell me the designers fratranizing with the playerbase hasnt worked for that game's benefit....

    It's a shame the guy ended up leaving the fleet. And every one of you who posted that this was a problem should be ashamed of yourselves... But in this society, you wont be. You'll think of yourselves as doing something good, like you found a crime in progress or something.....It's stuff like this that will kill this game, not lack of content, not poor graphics or bugs.

    Because your creating a environment where the devs feel that they cannot talk to the playerbase that they're more or less working for. Congrats folks, you've put a nail in the coffin of a game you say you love....

    P_Flux
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~ Phoxe
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Devs are gamers too? Shocking!

    Imagine, people who work in the videogame industry being active in video game clans. *snort*

    The kind of people who manage to turn their video game hobby into a job tend to be the kind of people who found clans. What're we supposed to do, throw 'em out when they succeed?
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    As a playerbase we should be encouraging the devs to play with us, team with us, join our fleets(supergroups) and whatever else.

    I think that, thankfully, the playerbase has shown overwhelming support for devs playing with us in this thread.

    The disgust at this wretched OP has been rather clear.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I wholly support devs playing the game as members of player fleets.

    It's a far more positive and informative practice for them than appointing a nebulous 'advisory council', at least.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    AtomicFB wrote:
    This thread has to be the most ridiculous clap trap that has been on this forum to date. Honestly it wouldn't hurt my feeling one bit if the devs formed their own fleet and pwned all the ones complaining about this issue. At least then they would have something real to complain about.

    Don't we give these guys enough flak about all the important stuff that now we have to pick on them for being part of a player fleet.

    What I get confused over is what part of it's their game did everyone misunderstand.

    Pretty much this. I wish I knew if this forum could allow images cause I'd flood this thread with so many Picard face palm pictures that it'd be unreal.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    NeoWolf06 wrote: »
    diamonds has always been and will continue to be welcome in our fleet.
    as i stated earlier he's never used his dev powers to help us in any way.

    Right on. :) While I can understand the OP's original argument, I lean towards the fact that there really isn't much a dev could do to make one fleet more powerful than the other. STO is not EVE, you can't compare apples to oranges; if a dev gave another fleet all uber stuff, I would never notice because of the way I play the game. I tend to solo, or play with at MAX up to 4 other people (which is pretty rare).

    And I'm glad to see that you're keeping Diamonds in your fleet. Any dev should be allowed to play the game and have fun as long as they play by the rules. Personally, I'd love it if a dev popped into my fleet every now and then...they would experience the good and the bad right along with me, they could pass along feedback...and I bet they'd be just cool people to game with.

    As long as nothing improper is going on (which I don't believe there is), I have ZERO issues with devs joining player fleets.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I'd also like to bring up the fact that there is a difference between a dev being name flagged on Holodeck and having access level privilages to impact the game.

    Access Level rights are strictly limited to GMs and a very small group of managers. All in game commands are logged. Our CEO John Needham just hit level 45, and I can guarantee that he didn't use a single command while doing so because he doesn't have access rights to do so.

    If it ever appears that a Cryptic employee is using commands to impact the game in any way, please contact CS immediately as we take this very seriously.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Kudos to all the dev posts in this thread! You guys weren't kidding when you said we're gonna see devs posting in the forums a lot more...you guys pop up everywhere! :D Freakin awesome.

    Just to reiterate...I do not believe Diamonds (or any other Cryptic employee) was doing anything improper. If they want to join a player fleet to have fun and be a part of the community, then they can go right ahead as far as I'm concerned. :)
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I really don't see what the big deal is. Ashen Temper and many of the other Devs played regularly with us in Shadowbane. April (Cuppajo), Kagasumi and other regularly played with us in Tabula Rasa. Several other Devs were known to play CoX when I played a few years ago.

    They aren't any different than we are. Saying they can't be in a fleet or play the game is like saying Bill Gates has to buy a Mac because he helped write Windows and therefore cannot use a PC because it's a conflict of interest.

    Pure rubbish.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    dstahl wrote: »
    I'd also like to bring up the fact that there is a difference between a dev being name flagged on Holodeck and having access level privilages to impact the game.

    Access Level rights are strictly limited to GMs and a very small group of managers. All in game commands are logged. Our CEO John Needham just hit level 45, and I can guarantee that he didn't use a single command while doing so because he doesn't have access rights to do so.

    If it ever appears that a Cryptic employee is using commands to impact the game in any way, please contact CS immediately as we take this very seriously.

    Thanks for this information. :)
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Devs play with players? I've never played with a Dev, maybe one day.
    (well there is this one time i killed Gozer in beta heh)

    But but to the topic at hand, who cares? People whine about everything around here, the sad part is most of the whiners are apparently chronologically speaking, adults.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    dstahl wrote: »
    I'd also like to bring up the fact that there is a difference between a dev being name flagged on Holodeck and having access level privilages to impact the game.

    Access Level rights are strictly limited to GMs and a very small group of managers. All in game commands are logged. Our CEO John Needham just hit level 45, and I can guarantee that he didn't use a single command while doing so because he doesn't have access rights to do so.

    If it ever appears that a Cryptic employee is using commands to impact the game in any way, please contact CS immediately as we take this very seriously.

    Thank you for pointing out what should have been obvious to people.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    dstahl wrote: »
    I'd also like to bring up the fact that there is a difference between a dev being name flagged on Holodeck and having access level privilages to impact the game.

    Access Level rights are strictly limited to GMs and a very small group of managers. All in game commands are logged. Our CEO John Needham just hit level 45, and I can guarantee that he didn't use a single command while doing so because he doesn't have access rights to do so.

    If it ever appears that a Cryptic employee is using commands to impact the game in any way, please contact CS immediately as we take this very seriously.



    Stop, just stop.


    It's like throwing gas on a fire.

    We know he didn't cheat, we really don't care. I would not care for a second if the CEO of the game that I was playing got himself a max level premade with all the best equipment. I WOULD care if he took it into PVP and murdered people with it. However, we both know that is not happening, so don't give the trolls more info on commands and protocol.

    :cool:
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I don't really care either way, but regardless of whether or not the guy has GM powers of any kind, it's really not in Cryptics best interest to have their dev team / GM's in fleets... if they must be, then they should be under an unknown alias. There have been so many accounts of corruption in MMO's with people helping their guilds and such that it's just not a good face to be putting on the game.. like I said, it doesn't matter if his account in the fleet has powers or not, and personally i'm sure he hasn't or won't do anything to help them, but it's just not a good image..
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Intrepidox wrote: »
    I don't really care either way, but regardless of whether or not the guy has GM powers of any kind, it's really not in Cryptics best interest to have their dev team / GM's in fleets... if they must be, then they should be under an unknown alias. There have been so many accounts of corruption in MMO's with people helping their guilds and such that it's just not a good face to be putting on the game.. like I said, it doesn't matter if his account in the fleet has powers or not, and personally i'm sure he hasn't or won't do anything to help them, but it's just not a good image..



    There have not been 'so many incidents'. Link your proof, or accept that there are many, many more paranoid, jealous trolls out there than 'incidents'.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    casper wrote: »
    Well the crying has succeeded - he left the fleet.

    That's sad, people that still couldn't let that thing go should feel ashamed of themselves...
    Askray wrote: »
    I couldn't see that being true. While GM's/Dev's/Rekhan (yes i separated him because he's just not a gm or dev he's... well him XD) are allowed to play i'm sure, I HIGHLY doubt they'd allow a fleet to go against policy without themselves being canned :p
    Well, we actually know that they did allow it, because there was a GM posting in the thread about it joining in and egging them on, and we all read and heard about how the GMs were doing the same in-game and no kind of enforcement of the rules happened whatsoever neither on here or ingame, laying down the red carpet happily for them to do similar stuff to people in future
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Devs play with players? I've never played with a Dev, maybe one day.
    (well there is this one time i killed Gozer in beta heh)

    You've probably played with devs many times, and just don't know it. Most of 'em are in fleets if they play the game at all, and they're encouraged to play the game.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    OpenSorce wrote: »
    And.... He's only got one character and, of course, it's Starfleet. Anybody surprised? I'd love to know how many devs actually PLAY KDF. I bet not many.

    Ha its cus KDF sucks :P

    J/K
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    CandymanCD wrote: »
    There have not been 'so many incidents'. Link your proof, or accept that there are many, many more paranoid, jealous trolls out there than 'incidents'.

    Agreed. Too bad the paranoid, jealous trolls got their way on this thread. Good job guys, i hope you all can feel a little less inadequate in life now.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I am only a member of Omega Fleet, and I only found this recently, but I would like to say a few things for the record:

    Diamonds was never given special treatment in our fleet, nor did we ever ask anything of him other than to be a contributing fleet member. The leaders in our fleet explicitly banned us from asking Diamonds about his job, or asking for favors. Contrary to popular belief, it is possible for someone other than yourself to handle a situation correctly and with integrity. Our fleet leaders were made aware of who he was when he entered and they handled it responsibly. They weren't so shortsighted as to try to gain benefits for the fleet. Only a moron would think that would go unnoticed. It was made clear that he was with our fleet as a player, not a dev. Devs are people too (go figure) and sometimes even video game developers like to play video games (gasp!).

    I am sorry it had to come to this. Diamonds was a good member, and I am sorry everyone harassed him enough that he felt it necessary to leave our fleet.

    Hope everyone is now happy. Let's leave it where it is. He's gone. It didn't need to happen but it did. Go look for your next crusade team, this one is finished.

    -Arn
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Hey so what server first, all characters in epics, inside information, special tactics, massive amount of game envy does our fleet have?
    Oh yeah none of that. Half the fleet if not 75% are now off playing other games as sadly STO hasn't delivered to our expectations.

    Since you've been lurking on our forums watch it totally change in a few days.

    "Oh they have a dev in the fleet, why can't i have one"
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Nice Morgan, good to see you around. ^^ This is actually really funny if you know our fleet situation. Thanks for putting some humor back into it for me.

    People complained that Omega Fleet might be getting special benefits in STO...only problem? Most of us aren't playing STO anymore >~<
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Most mmo's Ive played don't prohibit devs/gms from playing with regular players but they do prohibit them from using their dev/gm accounts or disclosing that they work for the company. Im surprise cryptic doesn't have such a policy, it would have eliminated all these misperceptions and drama.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Galdere wrote: »
    Diamonds is in Omega Fleet.

    http://www.startrekonline.com/character_profiles/88741/view

    http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/8454/omega2s.jpg

    As I said in the character profiles thread...

    Isn't that inappropriate?

    The EVE\BoB thing comes to mind.

    Gotta love our community when this type of topic is considered important enough to post. :rolleyes:
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Gotta love our community when this type of topic is considered important enough to post. :rolleyes:

    If you think it isnt important enough to post, then by your own logic it isnt important enough to reply to either :rolleyes:
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    bstiff wrote:
    Most mmo's Ive played don't prohibit devs/gms from playing with regular players but they do prohibit them from using their dev/gm accounts or disclosing that they work for the company. Im surprise cryptic doesn't have such a policy, it would have eliminated all these misperceptions and drama.

    I gather their policy WAS the opposite. You can play with people and join guilds but you have to announce it for transparency's sake.
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