Bridge officers no longer attack invited players of hostile factions while aboard the bridge.
Fleet Action: Breaking the Planet Changed timers on the generator bombs and added a prompt to RUN After setting a bomb.
DeepSpace: Moved some of the Fleet Commander spawns so that they dont run over and own players who have just warped into the map.
Not saying it is 100% fact they are going the WoW/Eve damage/destroy/repair/replace route for a DP, but I have a strong feeling it is.
Stop there. You've not read what I'm saying, you've made an assumption.
I've been pointing out the flaws of the poll, yes. my point of contention are the people who take this to represent the entire community when it's already been pointed out by quite a few people it doesn't.
I refute the first sentence because the first sentence implies that the proportions are the same in game and on the forums. They're usually not. (btw, I did media studies and this came up)
"At least more so" is another falsehood.
Continue to troll and harass me if you wish. It doesn't change the fact this poll, AS STATED BY THE OP:
you're right i read the first few posts by you then skimmed the rest which seemed to say much the same things as the first few posts.
if you're pointing out that poll has flaws then you're beating a dead horse. it was pointed out in the OP that this thread was meant to gather info on what the forum going community wants.
it seems to me that you created the issue of wether people think this poll represents the ENTIRE playerbase. and if you look at, and research how polls are done in the real world, you can in fact take this poll as representative as such, but probably with a wider margin of error than is really acceptable.
and it's trolling and harassment when someone disagrees with you and points out the flaws in your reasoning? lol?
reading your posts i can only conclude that you take with issue with this poll for some reason. i can infer that it is because it doesn't come up with the results you wish it did.
otherwise you're beating a dead horse here.
i'm not sure of anyone who doesn't want an in game poll on this issue, at least among those that care.
Bridge officers no longer attack invited players of hostile factions while aboard the bridge.
Fleet Action: Breaking the Planet Changed timers on the generator bombs and added a prompt to RUN After setting a bomb.
DeepSpace: Moved some of the Fleet Commander spawns so that they dont run over and own players who have just warped into the map.
Not saying it is 100% fact they are going the WoW/Eve damage/destroy/repair/replace route for a DP, but I have a strong feeling it is.
the first line sounds like they're going to decrease the "griefing" potential of inviting opposing faction players to your bridge.
the other two sounds like they're fixing some of the unavoidable or hard to avoid death scenarios currently present in the game.
none of that points to, or indicates, or even implies what kind of DP they are looking at implementing.
if you're pointing out that poll has flaws then you're beating a dead horse. it was pointed out in the OP that this thread was meant to gather info on what the forum going community wants.
it seems to me that you created the issue of wether people think this poll represents the ENTIRE playerbase. and if you look at, and research how polls are done in the real world, you can in fact take this poll as representative as such, but probably with a wider margin of error than is really acceptable.
So, if I were to 'poll' a bunch of protestors outside Westminster, I could argue that the results represent the entire country (UK)?
That's what anyone who claims that this thread can be used to accurately represent the entire player-base is saying. So yes, I'm challenging that assumption. If you don't like me for it, if you don't like me highlighting that for those that are making that assumption, that's your problem.
and it's trolling and harassment when someone disagrees with you and points out the flaws in your reasoning? lol?
I call it trolling and harassment when you post in ignorance for several posts.
reading your posts i can only conclude that you take with issue with this poll for some reason.
See above.
Further to above, polling the two extremes leaves out the middle, and its the 'middle' that makes up the numbers. That's what we generally see on the forum, the two sides of the argument without the people in the middle.
i can infer that it is because it doesn't come up with the results you wish it did.
Assumption. I've already explained it several times.
So, if I were to 'poll' a bunch of protestors outside Westminster, I could argue that the results represent the entire country (UK)?
That's what anyone who claims that this thread can be used to accurately represent the entire player-base is saying. So yes, I'm challenging that assumption. If you don't like me for it, if you don't like me highlighting that for those that are making that assumption, that's your problem.
I call it trolling and harassment when you post in ignorance for several posts.
See above.
Further to above, polling the two extremes leaves out the middle, and its the 'middle' that makes up the numbers. That's what we generally see on the forum, the two sides of the argument without the people in the middle.
Assumption. I've already explained it several times.
Yet you're the one keeping it going.
your first example is what pro DP people tried to do in essence. this thread is a far cry from that.
please quote at least ONE person besides myself saying that this poll is a good repsentation of the ENTIRE playerbase. quote the whole post so we can know that they didn't disclaim it in any way. and please make it a post from before you started disputing this poll's integrity.
is thre really a middle on this issue? you either want an increased DP of some kind, or you want the status quo, or you don't care either way- and there fore do not answer the poll.
and would you be arguing that the poll was invalid in some way if it gave the result you wanted? really? and you waited all this time to voice that opposition when it was clear that this poll was the most valid on these forums?
because when i disagreed with other polls validity, i made it a point to post it on the first page or two and leave it at that.
lol? you are just as guilty as i may be, considering you brought this issue up 100+ pages after the poll was made and yet claim to have been following this since the beginning. that's why i can infer that you just don't like the results. because you had the chance when this poll was still new to voice complaints about it's validity. if you really have been following it since the beginning that is. if you haven';t really been following it since it was first made then you are not negligent in voicing your issues with the poll.
further you point out that the OP disclaimed the poll as not representing the entire playerbase, could you not have simply said that when whoever claimed otherwise made that claim the first time? either way i don't recall you doing so in your first few posts several pages back. i guess i could go back and double check...
your first example is what pro DP people tried to do in essence. this thread is a far cry from that.
No, this thread isn't. Go back to the OP. Read your own posts aswell.
please quote at least ONE person besides myself saying that this poll is a good repsentation of the ENTIRE playerbase. quote the whole post so we can know that they didn't disclaim it in any way. and please make it a post from before you started disputing this poll's integrity.
I don't see the point. If you're making the claim, then it's you I'm arguing against.
is thre really a middle on this issue? you either want an increased DP of some kind, or you want the status quo, or you don't care either way- and there fore do not answer the poll.
You do realise you've just done the worst thing as far as making a reliable poll, don't you?
If you want a poll with reliable results, all four "categories" need to be answerable.
and would you be arguing that the poll was invalid in some way if it gave the result you wanted? really?
Yes. Because I'm going to be critical about the DP anyway, and THE ORIGINAL POST already stated that this poll would not represent the entire playerbase.
and you waited all this time to voice that opposition when it was clear that this poll was the most valid on these forums?
... still coming from a position of ignorance, I see.
lol? you are just as guilty as i may be, considering you brought this issue up 100+ pages after the poll was made and yet claim to have been following this since the beginning. that's why i can infer that you just don't like the results. because you had the chance when this poll was still new to voice complaints about it's validity.
READ THE ****ING OP!
And I assumed everyone posting would actually read the OP, so no, I didn't bring it up straight away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unos View Post
POLL: (40%) Death Penalty vs (60%) Status Quo
Please take note Cryptic.
This poll is not scientific, binding or in any way verifiable. Therefore is meaningless.
post number 1412 on page 142 in response o the updated results is when you first dispute the validity of this poll from what a 30 second scan shows.
you are either lying about having been here the whole time
or
are negligent in your concerns about the poll's validity and didn't read the OP the first time.
either way, you both made your stance clear before you decided to poll was invalid in this thread.
didn't make your issue with the validity of the poll clear until you found out the results were not to your liking.
and rehashed the issue of wether any forum poll can be a reasonable representation of the playerbase without including the OP's disclaimer in your initial claim.
If you want a poll with reliable results, all four "categories" need to be answerable.
Hello sibbwolf, would you like to make a player survey and post in the "Star Trek Online Forums > Information and Discussion", where it will get the most views?
I'll take part if you do, it might be a good idea to see what kind of results come from it so we can compare them to this Poll, but you would have to state that only survey answers are allowed and no debating, speculating, arguing etc.
Also include one or two more answers to choose from.
post number 1412 on page 142 in response o the updated results is when you first dispute the validity of this poll from what a 30 second scan shows.
Because the OP had already pointed out that the thread was always only going to represent the forum part of the community. What part of that eludes you?
you are either lying about having been here the whole time
or
are negligent in your concerns about the poll's validity and didn't read the OP the first time.
Or I didn't post because until now, no-one was making the stupid claim you are.
either way, you both made your stance clear before you decided to poll was invalid in this thread
If you mean, in the context of the ENTIRE STO PLAYERBASE, then yes. If you mean the forum-browsers, no.
didn't make your issue with the validity of the poll clear until you found out the results were not to your liking.
I don't give a damn about the results of the poll. I wouldn't care if the poll said 99% in favour of DP, if the poll is not representative of the entire playerbase, it's not representative of the entire playerbase.
Hello sibbwolf, would you like to make a player survey and post in the "Star Trek Online Forums > Information and Discussion", where it will get the most views?
I'll take part if you do, it might be a good idea to see what kind of results come from it so we can compare them to this Poll, but you would have to state that only survey answers are allowed and no debating, speculating, arguing etc.
Also include one or two more answers to choose from.
Heh, I can't be bothered. You're welcome to though
Hello sibbwolf, would you like to make a player survey and post in the "Star Trek Online Forums > Information and Discussion", where it will get the most views?
I'll take part if you do, it might be a good idea to see what kind of results come from it so we can compare them to this Poll, but you would have to state that only survey answers are allowed and no debating, speculating, arguing etc.
Also include one or two more answers to choose from.
i think he should do so too. although i made one that had a similar question to this one and i got only 62 responses and had to keep bumping it to keep it on the front page for just two days.
further i would dispute the finding of the poll before anyone answered it due to being open to non subscribers.
Because the OP had already pointed out that the thread was always only going to represent the forum part of the community. What part of that eludes you?
Or I didn't post because until now, no-one was making the stupid claim you are.
If you mean, in the context of the ENTIRE STO PLAYERBASE, then yes. If you mean the forum-browsers, no.
I don't give a damn about the results of the poll. I wouldn't care if the poll said 99% in favour of DP, if the poll is not representative of the entire playerbase, it's not representative of the entire playerbase.
you failed to point that out until just today. why is that? in the two posts i quoted you didn't point that out. nor did you before the results were updated.
why is my claim stupid? because you can't defend against it? because you misse your opportunity to make valid criticisms of the poll question itself or the validity of the possible results?
by making your stance clear i mean your stance on the DP issue itself. you had already thrown your hat in before the results were updated within a few pages. hello conflict of interest and being in o position to criticize the poll now.
you do care about the results. or you wouldn't have posted in this thread, or claimed the poll was invalid once you learned that it wasn't in your favour.
go back and read from around page 140 again to refresh your memory on what you yourself said on the subject.
you failed to point that out until just today. why is that? in the two posts i quoted you didn't point that out. nor did you before the results were updated.
I already said, I made the assumption people would actually read the OP.
why is my claim stupid?
Claiming that this poll represents the entire STO playerbase when even the person who set up the poll recognised it would not is stupid.
by making your stance clear i mean your stance on the DP issue itself.
That was clear before this poll was started.
you had already thrown your hat in before the results were updated within a few pages. hello conflict of interest and being in o position to criticize the poll now.
And you say you aren't harassing?:rolleyes:
you do care about the results. or you wouldn't have posted in this thread,
Yet I'm trying to remain detached, while you keep bringing them up in an ad-hom attack.
or claimed the poll was invalid once you learned that it wasn't in your favour.
The poll was never going to be in my favour anyway. I believe at one point I even said (not in this thread) that at best, it was 50/50 on the forums.
This poll was only ever going to represent the forum-browsing minority. It was not going to represent the actual playerbase. You've admitted you said it does. What else needs saying?
Now, if you want to continue an ad-hom attack, go right ahead.
so now attacking your arguments and your position on the issue are ad hom attacks? please refresh your knowledge of what makes up an ad hominem, instead of misusing the word.
you may have made posts earlier in this thread than page 140 or so , but did not post regularly on the issue until the last several ages.
and i too have said that the issue is probably 50/50, and that cryptic should keep that mind, instead of claiming that DP is 'what the community wants"
as for my claim that this poll was was representative of the ENTIRE playerbase, it didn't come up until you claimed that someone had made that claim and you had rebutted it. i can find no such evidence of anyone saying that before you yourself saying that someone else said it.
i not only made that claim in the context and support of your claim that someone else had said it previously, but disclaimed it and explained how polls work a little bit.
so if you're done beating a dead horse and making falacious claims? or are you going to quote when you disputed the validity of the poll before results were known or you voted in THIS poll?
Just out of curiousty, sibblewolf do you want a DP or not?
Also Just out of curiousty, dirtyklingon do you want a DP or not?
I do want a DP and to be honest I am not really bothered what the terms and conditions of the DP are, so long as it exists in game.
I just want to, so to get a refresh on the topic as you both seem to be taking your discussion quite far. LoL
to reiterate, i am for the status quo. i think the current death penalty(or death mechanic if you prefer) is just fine.
my experiences in mmo's over the years lead me to believe that DPs do more harm then good, never stop teh problems pro dp people claim they cure, or encourage teaming but often rather the opposite in all cases in addition to taking players out of the game both in the short term and the long term and encouraging actual griefing.
i'll also add that if they do want to increase the DP then they need to look at improving several factors such as surviviability of all ships, how even cruisers die very fast adn very easily in certain tiers in groups and against certain npc ship types in pve, and how to not discourage goruping with the increased Dp which can and does happen in any mmo regardless of how harsh or weak the DP may be.
i also think that no matter what the DP, most people that want an increase will be disappointed and see it as too harsh or not harsh enough, while all players that prefer the status quo will also be disapointed.
furthermore, the compromise i agreed to since OB, encounter resets at endgame, is already in the new infected STF. for mere pve leveling, simple mob resets(ie regen to full hp/shields upon player death) is good enough.
some ppl who want an increased DP say that "zerging"(more appropriately named suiciding) is rampant. idid not see anything resembling this until tier 4 myself, and don't see how an increased DP will solve it given the fact that the increased deaths in tier 4 i've experienced seem to be due to certain ship powers such as FBP and photonic ships spawning vs certain classes' combat viability before BO powers and a real need to to re-examine what BO powers are effective in tier 4 vs what has worked in previous tiers.
i already try my best to die so an increased DP will only add to my frustration and aggravation when i do die, which when it does happen is despite my best efforts and often unavoidable.
I already try my best (not?) to die so an increased DP will only add to my frustration and aggravation when I do die, which when it does happen is despite my best efforts and often unavoidable.
You make many good points, my point in my mind, is that the more realistic the game is to the Star Trek Tv Series and Movies, the happier I am.
You make many good points, my point in my mind, is that the more realistic the game is to the Star Trek Tv Series and Movies, the happier I am.
i've never seen a ST game that was truly faithful to the franchise in the way many people want, or is a star trek simulator. even the much touted bridge commander was pure action.
also a DP in no way makes a game more faithful to the series, unless it is permanent death, permanent ship loss or frequently changing plots to explain why x character has returned from the dead or it was just an alternate universe or an alternate timeline.
also you imply in the "fixed" quote that i don't try my best. ask my fleetmates that go in and talk in vent if i don't complain everytime i die or ask for advice on how to improve my play. hell i switched to escort in tier 4 because my t4 cruiser was dying before i could even kill a ship. i die more in my escort which ****es me off but at least i can kill most of the ships in each encounter before i do die. so far a very frustrating experience in t4 for me. i even made a thread about how i felt t4 cruisers are gimpy and am taking the advice i've gotten into consideration for t5 when i go back to flying a cruiser.
so now attacking your arguments and your position on the issue are ad hom attacks?
No, accusing me of attacking the poll (which I'm not) because "I'm pro-DP" is ad-hom.
you may have made posts earlier in this thread than page 140 or so , but did not post regularly on the issue until the last several ages.
Because this issue was only raised several pages ago.
as for my claim that this poll was was representative of the ENTIRE playerbase, it didn't come up until you claimed that someone had made that claim and you had rebutted it. i can find no such evidence of anyone saying that before you yourself saying that someone else said it.
Then why did you actually make the claim? You didn't even have to respond.
i ...explained how polls work a little bit.
And got it wrong.
so if you're done beating a dead horse and making falacious claims?
Odd, since I'm not the one accusing the other of bias.
or are you going to quote when you disputed the validity of the poll before results were known
And you claim you're not participating in an attack on me? Interesting. Again, read the OP, since the OP already made the point that the thread/poll was not going to be accurate.
At this point, I reminded people that the poll was actually not as useful as Unos appaeared to believe (by pointing out, in a similar style to Unos, that the results could not be verified for the whole community). This response:
Though the poll only represents people who go to the forums and post on this thread...
It is 100% verifiable as the results consists of tallying up unique people who posted yes or no in this thread.
Cryptic stated they were listening to the community when they decided to add a DP while also saying they do not listen to the reviews. Seeing there was no survey or poll by Cryptic for DP... It would appear the "community" they were listening to was the forums.
This thread is a good indicator that adding in a death penalty based on forum posts was not as universally popular as they may have believed.
Pointed out that no actual polling had taken place - Reviewers were the source of the "Majority want DP" Cryptic used. Of course, made the point of saying that in the context of forum browsers, it is valid/verifiable.
My responses from this point on made the clear distinction between the two.
By placing this thread in the "Feedback > General Gameplay" section of the forums, it also suggests that this thread is not viewed by the majority of forum viewers, the most popular section is the "Information and Discussion" section of the forums, just look at the amout of views that section has compared to this one.
The issues relating to how useful this poll is are started.
Alecto, I'm Pro-DP. But I feel it needs to be implemented to address a gameplay issue, and not implemented just to have one (thus creating a huge divide between myself and quite a few of the most vocal pro-DP).
i also think that no matter what the DP, most people that want an increase will be disappointed and see it as too harsh or not harsh enough, while all players that prefer the status quo will also be disapointed.
That's called a compromise in the case of not harsh enough, and is what I'm hopeful for in a way. The main things would have to be:
- the DP fits in with a casual game. No loss of items.
- Needs to actually address an issue. The issue can't be big, but can be, for example, team awareness.
- Will have to be small, and assuming incremental, has a 'maximum' value.
You imply in the "fixed" quote that i don't try my best.
I try my best to never imply, presume etc...
You had stated that "try my best to die" which didn't make sence so I added "try my best (not?) to die" in a attemp to check that you wern't intentionally trying to get yourself blown up. LoL
I am sure you do try your best, but no matter what game you are playing or how hard you try, there is always room for improvement.
- Needs to actually address an issue. The issue can't be big, but can be, for example, team awareness.
No amount of coding they can implement will correct human control. Bad players who don't buff/help anyone now sure as heck aren't going to help anyone if the choice is between avoiding a DP themselves or helping someone else. Therefore, the entire excercise of adding a DP to "foster team awareness" fails.
No amount of coding they can implement will correct human control. Bad players who don't buff/help anyone now sure as heck aren't going to help anyone if the choice is between avoiding a DP themselves or helping someone else. Therefore, the entire excercise of adding a DP to "foster team awareness" fails.
That was an example. You're free to offer a better one
Though one would hope that seeing one way to not die is to work as a team, those people would realise that... guess I just like wishful thinking.
Why am I reminded here of Uhura when she told "Mister Adventure" to "be careful what you wish for"?
LoL
No seriously I don't care what the consequences are, as long as the DP is in the game. As I mentioned ealier, the more realistic to the fictional universe of Star Trek the game is, the happpier I am.
Which if there were a strict death penalty, this would be very annoying.
Which are for the most part causing unavoidable defeats to the player and if there were a strict death penalty, this would be very bad.
As I said I'm not saying 100% what they will do, but I am fairly certain there is going to be repair/replace costs involved.
it's annoying without a DP.
it's already bad without a DP.
how can you be certain of that? there is no indication whatsoever of what the DP could be from any of that or anything else the DEVs have said. the most likely DP based on OB evidence is some kind of crew loss money sink mechanic. although that's based just on the recent tuning of the crew mechanic and the presense of crew replacements vendors in OB.
You had stated that "try my best to die" which didn't make sence so I added "try my best (not?) to die" in a attemp to check that you wern't intentionally trying to get yourself blown up. LoL
I am sure you do try your best, but no matter what game you are playing or how hard you try, there is always room for improvement.
my bad sometimes i skip a word. and i focused on the added NOT instead of re reading the whole sentence.
Comments
Bridge officers no longer attack invited players of hostile factions while aboard the bridge.
Fleet Action: Breaking the Planet Changed timers on the generator bombs and added a prompt to RUN After setting a bomb.
DeepSpace: Moved some of the Fleet Commander spawns so that they dont run over and own players who have just warped into the map.
Not saying it is 100% fact they are going the WoW/Eve damage/destroy/repair/replace route for a DP, but I have a strong feeling it is.
All these things help prevent the player from death right?
you're right i read the first few posts by you then skimmed the rest which seemed to say much the same things as the first few posts.
if you're pointing out that poll has flaws then you're beating a dead horse. it was pointed out in the OP that this thread was meant to gather info on what the forum going community wants.
it seems to me that you created the issue of wether people think this poll represents the ENTIRE playerbase. and if you look at, and research how polls are done in the real world, you can in fact take this poll as representative as such, but probably with a wider margin of error than is really acceptable.
and it's trolling and harassment when someone disagrees with you and points out the flaws in your reasoning? lol?
reading your posts i can only conclude that you take with issue with this poll for some reason. i can infer that it is because it doesn't come up with the results you wish it did.
otherwise you're beating a dead horse here.
i'm not sure of anyone who doesn't want an in game poll on this issue, at least among those that care.
the first line sounds like they're going to decrease the "griefing" potential of inviting opposing faction players to your bridge.
the other two sounds like they're fixing some of the unavoidable or hard to avoid death scenarios currently present in the game.
none of that points to, or indicates, or even implies what kind of DP they are looking at implementing.
So, if I were to 'poll' a bunch of protestors outside Westminster, I could argue that the results represent the entire country (UK)?
That's what anyone who claims that this thread can be used to accurately represent the entire player-base is saying. So yes, I'm challenging that assumption. If you don't like me for it, if you don't like me highlighting that for those that are making that assumption, that's your problem.
I call it trolling and harassment when you post in ignorance for several posts.
See above.
Further to above, polling the two extremes leaves out the middle, and its the 'middle' that makes up the numbers. That's what we generally see on the forum, the two sides of the argument without the people in the middle.
Assumption. I've already explained it several times.
Yet you're the one keeping it going.
your first example is what pro DP people tried to do in essence. this thread is a far cry from that.
please quote at least ONE person besides myself saying that this poll is a good repsentation of the ENTIRE playerbase. quote the whole post so we can know that they didn't disclaim it in any way. and please make it a post from before you started disputing this poll's integrity.
is thre really a middle on this issue? you either want an increased DP of some kind, or you want the status quo, or you don't care either way- and there fore do not answer the poll.
and would you be arguing that the poll was invalid in some way if it gave the result you wanted? really? and you waited all this time to voice that opposition when it was clear that this poll was the most valid on these forums?
because when i disagreed with other polls validity, i made it a point to post it on the first page or two and leave it at that.
lol? you are just as guilty as i may be, considering you brought this issue up 100+ pages after the poll was made and yet claim to have been following this since the beginning. that's why i can infer that you just don't like the results. because you had the chance when this poll was still new to voice complaints about it's validity. if you really have been following it since the beginning that is. if you haven';t really been following it since it was first made then you are not negligent in voicing your issues with the poll.
further you point out that the OP disclaimed the poll as not representing the entire playerbase, could you not have simply said that when whoever claimed otherwise made that claim the first time? either way i don't recall you doing so in your first few posts several pages back. i guess i could go back and double check...
No, this thread isn't. Go back to the OP. Read your own posts aswell.
I don't see the point. If you're making the claim, then it's you I'm arguing against.
You do realise you've just done the worst thing as far as making a reliable poll, don't you?
The sides "generally":
- Increased DP.
- Lessened DP.
- Status Quo.
- Abstain.
If you want a poll with reliable results, all four "categories" need to be answerable.
Yes. Because I'm going to be critical about the DP anyway, and THE ORIGINAL POST already stated that this poll would not represent the entire playerbase.
... still coming from a position of ignorance, I see.
READ THE ****ING OP!
And I assumed everyone posting would actually read the OP, so no, I didn't bring it up straight away.
post number 1412 on page 142 in response o the updated results is when you first dispute the validity of this poll from what a 30 second scan shows.
you are either lying about having been here the whole time
or
are negligent in your concerns about the poll's validity and didn't read the OP the first time.
either way, you both made your stance clear before you decided to poll was invalid in this thread.
didn't make your issue with the validity of the poll clear until you found out the results were not to your liking.
and rehashed the issue of wether any forum poll can be a reasonable representation of the playerbase without including the OP's disclaimer in your initial claim.
Hello sibbwolf, would you like to make a player survey and post in the "Star Trek Online Forums > Information and Discussion", where it will get the most views?
I'll take part if you do, it might be a good idea to see what kind of results come from it so we can compare them to this Poll, but you would have to state that only survey answers are allowed and no debating, speculating, arguing etc.
Also include one or two more answers to choose from.
Because the OP had already pointed out that the thread was always only going to represent the forum part of the community. What part of that eludes you?
Or I didn't post because until now, no-one was making the stupid claim you are.
If you mean, in the context of the ENTIRE STO PLAYERBASE, then yes. If you mean the forum-browsers, no.
I don't give a damn about the results of the poll. I wouldn't care if the poll said 99% in favour of DP, if the poll is not representative of the entire playerbase, it's not representative of the entire playerbase.
Heh, I can't be bothered. You're welcome to though
i think he should do so too. although i made one that had a similar question to this one and i got only 62 responses and had to keep bumping it to keep it on the front page for just two days.
further i would dispute the finding of the poll before anyone answered it due to being open to non subscribers.
you failed to point that out until just today. why is that? in the two posts i quoted you didn't point that out. nor did you before the results were updated.
why is my claim stupid? because you can't defend against it? because you misse your opportunity to make valid criticisms of the poll question itself or the validity of the possible results?
by making your stance clear i mean your stance on the DP issue itself. you had already thrown your hat in before the results were updated within a few pages. hello conflict of interest and being in o position to criticize the poll now.
you do care about the results. or you wouldn't have posted in this thread, or claimed the poll was invalid once you learned that it wasn't in your favour.
go back and read from around page 140 again to refresh your memory on what you yourself said on the subject.
I already said, I made the assumption people would actually read the OP.
Claiming that this poll represents the entire STO playerbase when even the person who set up the poll recognised it would not is stupid.
That was clear before this poll was started.
And you say you aren't harassing?:rolleyes:
Yet I'm trying to remain detached, while you keep bringing them up in an ad-hom attack.
The poll was never going to be in my favour anyway. I believe at one point I even said (not in this thread) that at best, it was 50/50 on the forums.
This poll was only ever going to represent the forum-browsing minority. It was not going to represent the actual playerbase. You've admitted you said it does. What else needs saying?
Now, if you want to continue an ad-hom attack, go right ahead.
you may have made posts earlier in this thread than page 140 or so , but did not post regularly on the issue until the last several ages.
and i too have said that the issue is probably 50/50, and that cryptic should keep that mind, instead of claiming that DP is 'what the community wants"
as for my claim that this poll was was representative of the ENTIRE playerbase, it didn't come up until you claimed that someone had made that claim and you had rebutted it. i can find no such evidence of anyone saying that before you yourself saying that someone else said it.
i not only made that claim in the context and support of your claim that someone else had said it previously, but disclaimed it and explained how polls work a little bit.
so if you're done beating a dead horse and making falacious claims? or are you going to quote when you disputed the validity of the poll before results were known or you voted in THIS poll?
Just out of curiousty, sibblewolf do you want a DP or not?
Also Just out of curiousty, dirtyklingon do you want a DP or not?
I do want a DP and to be honest I am not really bothered what the terms and conditions of the DP are, so long as it exists in game.
I just want to know where you both stand, so to get a refresh on the topic as you both seem to be taking your discussion quite far. LoL
/10char
to reiterate, i am for the status quo. i think the current death penalty(or death mechanic if you prefer) is just fine.
my experiences in mmo's over the years lead me to believe that DPs do more harm then good, never stop teh problems pro dp people claim they cure, or encourage teaming but often rather the opposite in all cases in addition to taking players out of the game both in the short term and the long term and encouraging actual griefing.
i'll also add that if they do want to increase the DP then they need to look at improving several factors such as surviviability of all ships, how even cruisers die very fast adn very easily in certain tiers in groups and against certain npc ship types in pve, and how to not discourage goruping with the increased Dp which can and does happen in any mmo regardless of how harsh or weak the DP may be.
i also think that no matter what the DP, most people that want an increase will be disappointed and see it as too harsh or not harsh enough, while all players that prefer the status quo will also be disapointed.
furthermore, the compromise i agreed to since OB, encounter resets at endgame, is already in the new infected STF. for mere pve leveling, simple mob resets(ie regen to full hp/shields upon player death) is good enough.
some ppl who want an increased DP say that "zerging"(more appropriately named suiciding) is rampant. idid not see anything resembling this until tier 4 myself, and don't see how an increased DP will solve it given the fact that the increased deaths in tier 4 i've experienced seem to be due to certain ship powers such as FBP and photonic ships spawning vs certain classes' combat viability before BO powers and a real need to to re-examine what BO powers are effective in tier 4 vs what has worked in previous tiers.
i already try my best to die so an increased DP will only add to my frustration and aggravation when i do die, which when it does happen is despite my best efforts and often unavoidable.
You make many good points, my point in my mind, is that the more realistic the game is to the Star Trek Tv Series and Movies, the happier I am.
i've never seen a ST game that was truly faithful to the franchise in the way many people want, or is a star trek simulator. even the much touted bridge commander was pure action.
also a DP in no way makes a game more faithful to the series, unless it is permanent death, permanent ship loss or frequently changing plots to explain why x character has returned from the dead or it was just an alternate universe or an alternate timeline.
also you imply in the "fixed" quote that i don't try my best. ask my fleetmates that go in and talk in vent if i don't complain everytime i die or ask for advice on how to improve my play. hell i switched to escort in tier 4 because my t4 cruiser was dying before i could even kill a ship. i die more in my escort which ****es me off but at least i can kill most of the ships in each encounter before i do die. so far a very frustrating experience in t4 for me. i even made a thread about how i felt t4 cruisers are gimpy and am taking the advice i've gotten into consideration for t5 when i go back to flying a cruiser.
No, accusing me of attacking the poll (which I'm not) because "I'm pro-DP" is ad-hom.
Because this issue was only raised several pages ago.
Then why did you actually make the claim? You didn't even have to respond.
And got it wrong.
Odd, since I'm not the one accusing the other of bias.
And you claim you're not participating in an attack on me? Interesting. Again, read the OP, since the OP already made the point that the thread/poll was not going to be accurate.
Learn CONTEXT and come back to me:
At this point, I reminded people that the poll was actually not as useful as Unos appaeared to believe (by pointing out, in a similar style to Unos, that the results could not be verified for the whole community). This response:
Pointed out that no actual polling had taken place - Reviewers were the source of the "Majority want DP" Cryptic used. Of course, made the point of saying that in the context of forum browsers, it is valid/verifiable.
My responses from this point on made the clear distinction between the two.
Then:
The issues relating to how useful this poll is are started.
Alecto, I'm Pro-DP. But I feel it needs to be implemented to address a gameplay issue, and not implemented just to have one (thus creating a huge divide between myself and quite a few of the most vocal pro-DP).
That's called a compromise in the case of not harsh enough, and is what I'm hopeful for in a way. The main things would have to be:
- the DP fits in with a casual game. No loss of items.
- Needs to actually address an issue. The issue can't be big, but can be, for example, team awareness.
- Will have to be small, and assuming incremental, has a 'maximum' value.
However, I don't think the status-quo is enough.
Which if there were a strict death penalty, this would be very annoying.
Which are for the most part causing unavoidable defeats to the player and if there were a strict death penalty, this would be very bad.
As I said I'm not saying 100% what they will do, but I am fairly certain there is going to be repair/replace costs involved.
I try my best to never imply, presume etc...
You had stated that "try my best to die" which didn't make sence so I added "try my best (not?) to die" in a attemp to check that you wern't intentionally trying to get yourself blown up. LoL
I am sure you do try your best, but no matter what game you are playing or how hard you try, there is always room for improvement.
No amount of coding they can implement will correct human control. Bad players who don't buff/help anyone now sure as heck aren't going to help anyone if the choice is between avoiding a DP themselves or helping someone else. Therefore, the entire excercise of adding a DP to "foster team awareness" fails.
Ditto. 10 char
Why am I reminded here of Uhura when she told "Mister Adventure" to "be careful what you wish for"?
That was an example. You're free to offer a better one
Though one would hope that seeing one way to not die is to work as a team, those people would realise that... guess I just like wishful thinking.
LoL
No seriously I don't care what the consequences are, as long as the DP is in the game. As I mentioned ealier, the more realistic to the fictional universe of Star Trek the game is, the happpier I am.
it's already bad without a DP.
how can you be certain of that? there is no indication whatsoever of what the DP could be from any of that or anything else the DEVs have said. the most likely DP based on OB evidence is some kind of crew loss money sink mechanic. although that's based just on the recent tuning of the crew mechanic and the presense of crew replacements vendors in OB.
my bad sometimes i skip a word. and i focused on the added NOT instead of re reading the whole sentence.
i swear the internet is making me dyslexic.