I have followed this DP/No DP issue and I must say I have seen some real crazy extremes. Some that support it recommend some real harsh penalties that will do nothing but make people leave, such as killing off BO's, losing ships or equipment, etc. The other extreme side of the arguement is just as silly, personally I like the ones where they say delete your character and start over with a new character. I have mainly argued with the non DP crowd, but I see their point on issues like time sinks and excessive penalties. Originally I proposed some time sinks, forgetting how much I hated it in SWG. I always paid the medic 5K to remove my cloning sickness after I died, instead of waiting the 6 mins to recover.
My position now is not so much for a DP as I am for a change in the way battle damage in space combat is done. Klingon Academy had the best battle damage system of any Star Trek game. All of your ship systems were at 100% including hull and power. As you took damage your percentages would fall and the ship would take on visible battle damage as in missing sections of the hull and warp nacells damaged or destroyed. If your ship hull went to 0% you died just like in this game. If you survived, depending on the severity of the damage, your ship would max repair to 80-90% and still carry visible battle damage and some systems like weapons were less efficient. Now every other space game I have ever played from Privateer to SWG required credits to repair your ship. I cannot believe how many people are against having to pay for repairs and refit. Cool thing is, you don't have to go back to a starbase to get fixed. you can continue on, a little worse for wear, like the Enterprise in my avatar. Imagine having to use some strategy, do I get my ship fixed at a starbase now or can I fight in this weakened state? Do I want to pay less for repairs, or risk paying more if I am destroyed? Repair cost would be based on severity of damage and tier lvl of the ship. Lower level, less cost, simple. The way the game is now, I can be damaged to 1% hull and recover back to 100%, not very realistic and kind of kills immersion a bit.
If you die, you have to pay to restore your ship, again cost based on ship tier. Again this is how it worked in Privateer to SWG. Death was not just a respawn, heres your fixed ship good as new. Is that really so painful? I hope the devs look at this as a way to improve the game mechanics, like battle damage, instead of instituting a silly DP.
The game is too easy and there is no tension or risk.
Adding a DP to an easy game just results in an easy game with a DP.
I too want the content to be more challenging. Challenging enough that I am defeated frequently. Seeking that level of challenge would be punished rather than encouraged by any DP beyond encounter reset.
What is the point of the game at the moment? - the only penalty is a 15 second respawn. We basically have god mode on all the time. The funniest thing is, that when you then utilise this e.g. ramming the CE, people get upset. By the end game the game is painfully boring because there is absolutely nothing to lose and no risk.
What is the point of the game at the moment? - the only penalty is a 15 second respawn. We basically have god mode on all the time. The funniest thing is, that when you then utilise this e.g. ramming the CE, people get upset. By the end game the game is painfully boring because there is absolutely nothing to lose and no risk.
What is the point of the game at all? Or of any MMO? If the game is so painfully easy and boring such that you don't die unless you want to, how would a DP actually change that?
Me, I'd like to see the difficulty kicked up a notch, but that's not gonna happen with a DP around. The people who complain that the game is too hard (and who have gotten cool missions nerfed as a result (R.I.P., Briar Patch)) will just have one more thing to complain about if you put in a DP.
BTW, ramming the CE is bad because 1) you won't do much damage to it with the new ramming rules, and 2) if it's below 30% there's a pretty good chance that a large shard will spawn on top of you. You'd end up healing the CE. People aren't getting upset because of what you're doing to your ship - they're upset because you're dragging out the CE fight.
BTW, ramming the CE is bad because 1) you won't do much damage to it with the new ramming rules, and 2) if it's below 30% there's a pretty good chance that a large shard will spawn on top of you. You'd end up healing the CE. People aren't getting upset because of what you're doing to your ship - they're upset because you're dragging out the CE fight.
Was referring to before it was buffed. Making the game harder would be a good alternative to a DP - back to the way it was in CB where fights were actually challenging. Regardless, as the devs have said before, a DP is much more likely.
Was referring to before it was buffed. Making the game harder would be a good alternative to a DP - back to the way it was in CB where fights were actually challenging. Regardless, as the devs have said before, a DP is much more likely.
I'm crossing my fingers and hoping they'll put in a difficulty slider at the same time they put in the DP, or very shortly after. I miss my metreon gas and my killer BoPs and my insanely tough hostage ship... those were the days.
I'm crossing my fingers and hoping they'll put in a difficulty slider at the same time they put in the DP, or very shortly after. I miss my metreon gas and my killer BoPs and my insanely tough hostage ship... those were the days.
I absolutely agree...
I miss the days when being able to consistently get the hostage ship in one or two tries got me dirty looks on the forums.
I'm crossing my fingers and hoping they'll put in a difficulty slider at the same time they put in the DP, or very shortly after. I miss my metreon gas and my killer BoPs and my insanely tough hostage ship... those were the days.
I miss that too. 5-10 minutes sometimes to take down a battleship - it just felt right and "epic".
I still wake up screaming in the night from Everquest flashbacks -- die early after leveling, lose your level and spells and skills, and extend the horrible grind, grind, grind. No thanks.
This is exactly why the poll is rather pointless.
PTSD from poorly designed DP are making ppl say no before they even know what they are actually voting for.
PTSD from poorly designed DP are making ppl say no before they even know what they are actually voting for.
Do you expect them to get this one thing, that people argue over all the time, over 160 pages of debate here alone. You expect after the mess cryptic has made so far to get this right?
I don't think it is too harsh to say they will TRIBBLE this up and it will be horrible, of course you won't be affected so you'll love it still, unless it is something smart like encounter reset.
at ^you I can't coherently respond because I keep wanting to poke your avatar's......
No seriously. I hope Crpytic over does the DP.. I CAN'T wait for the QQ to come in.. "so today I was going along ramming my ship into enemies and doing what I do daily.. when suddenly.. wtf is this DP TRIBBLE!?".. I foresee other amusing responses/posts like that.
But as for who he was quoting. Play diablo 2 hardcore.. get a character top 5 highest and suddenly the server takes a TRIBBLE on you.. and you died because of it's their side. Followed by an apology letter from blizzard going "sorry but oh wellz we screwed up". There is your nightmare..... EQ level reset could never be as much of a nightmare as that.
I think cryptic should eliminate the respawn timer and let us just respawn close to where we were with full shields and hull and reset BO power timers.
I have been having a lot of fun, but the respawn timer is a drag, 15 seconds is too long.
Oh and forget this silly DP stuff. The people that want it will just go away eventually and the rest of us will enjoy the game in their absence.
I think cryptic should eliminate the respawn timer and let us just respawn close to where we were with full shields and hull and reset BO power timers.
I have been having a lot of fun, but the respawn timer is a drag, 15 seconds is too long.
Oh and forget this silly DP stuff. The people that want it will just go away eventually and the rest of us will enjoy the game in their absence.
at ^you I can't coherently respond because I keep wanting to poke your avatar's......
No seriously. I hope Crpytic over does the DP.. I CAN'T wait for the QQ to come in.. "so today I was going along ramming my ship into enemies and doing what I do daily.. when suddenly.. wtf is this DP TRIBBLE!?".. I foresee other amusing responses/posts like that.
But as for who he was quoting. Play diablo 2 hardcore.. get a character top 5 highest and suddenly the server takes a TRIBBLE on you.. and you died because of it's their side. Followed by an apology letter from blizzard going "sorry but oh wellz we screwed up". There is your nightmare..... EQ level reset could never be as much of a nightmare as that.
All 5 of those people will be surely punished...or more likely will find the next exploit and the rest will suffer.
Do you expect them to get this one thing, that people argue over all the time, over 160 pages of debate here alone. You expect after the mess cryptic has made so far to get this right?
I want to know what it is im having a opinion on, im sorry if you cannot comprehend that logic.
I don't think it is too harsh to say they will TRIBBLE this up and it will be horrible, of course you won't be affected so you'll love it still, unless it is something smart like encounter reset.
I think not giving them a chance to improve the game is absurd, if the game is as poor as you say it is because of the "mess cryptic has made so far" then saying NO to them attempting to improve it before you even know what they are gonna do is a act of sheer absurdity.
Hey Goodwind, how you doing man? Keeping everyone on their toes I see.
Yeah I would be happy if the game was that realistic, if it was we would have all of the options open to us that the people in Star Trek have open to them, so we would find many ways to avoid death, but then yeah we might just die for like ever, but then STO is only a game.
Anyway peace, my girl friend is getting angry cause I'm on the PC at half 3 in the morning and she thinks I should be in bed. :rolleyes:[/COLOR]
If there was actual player death in the game, this game would lose subscriptions faster than any game in the history of gaming. The game would be dead inside one month. I'd bet my life on that.
As for the poll not being valid, again, Nielsen runs its entire business plan on the EXACT SAME MODEL. So yes, if the poll here says it's 60/40, the odds are 99.9% that the entire STO playerbase would roughly go 60/40 on the issue as well. This is proven in science many times over. There are so many examples of things being done with small sampling in order to get a rough estimate of how the majority would react. Sampling is a proven method.
The small samples only work provided the proportions on the FORUM match the proportions on the GAME. In the vast majority of games, that simply isn't true.
Again, think of it this way: There are two, opposing, groups of protesters outside the local gvt building. If the goal is to find out what the general public thinks, is polling the protesters going to yield accurate results?
As for the poll not being valid, again, Nielsen runs its entire business plan on the EXACT SAME MODEL. So yes, if the poll here says it's 60/40, the odds are 99.9% that the entire STO playerbase would roughly go 60/40 on the issue as well. This is proven in science many times over. There are so many examples of things being done with small sampling in order to get a rough estimate of how the majority would react. Sampling is a proven method.
The polls Nielsen runs have details and while this poll may be simular in design it is the lack of info that makes it invalid as it preys on others ignorance and fears.
The question may as well be "do you want the game to change in any way" as that is just a vague.
If there was actual player death in the game, this game would lose subscriptions faster than any game in the history of gaming. The game would be dead inside one month. I'd bet my life on that.
As for the poll not being valid, again, Nielsen runs its entire business plan on the EXACT SAME MODEL. So yes, if the poll here says it's 60/40, the odds are 99.9% that the entire STO playerbase would roughly go 60/40 on the issue as well. This is proven in science many times over. There are so many examples of things being done with small sampling in order to get a rough estimate of how the majority would react. Sampling is a proven method.
Statistics show that 90% of statistics are made up. In effect probably only about 10% of the actual player base come to these forums and look at these threads, and from what I'm seeing of this poll (Of which it lost its status as a 'poll' and because a large debate on the subject with flames licking on both sides) its just the same people for the most part posting over and over and over again on why they dont want a DP and flaming those that do, and the other way around.
Given how they (Read Cryptic) have implemented DPs before it will probably not even be an annoyance at best. it will probably be some minor debuff that reduces your weapons fire and repair by like 5% per death for 5 minutes. Cryptic really isnt really looking to make the players life a living hell, they have no hidden agenda about it, they dont meet in their Secret Base on mount doom and plot ways to annoy the players more. They have no plans to make an OMGWTF DP that will run the players off and I hate to say it all these people yelling to the high Heavens about it will not be quitting the game because of it. The threaten, they shake their fist, prehaps kick a small puppie but they will still be here, and they will complain when the next nerf of some nature comes in and they will teat it as if Cryptic is personally coming over and making their life hell. Even then they wont quit the game.
Either way I really wish people would quit taking this DP thing so seriously.
If there was actual player death in the game, this game would lose subscriptions faster than any game in the history of gaming. The game would be dead inside one month. I'd bet my life on that.
I had to quote that just because of how ironic it was...
Come to think of it I think i will ad that to my sig.
As the above two (which includes the OP) pointed out:
It's valid for the FORUM population, not the total player-base.
Only way to get an accurate view on that (The entire player base) is to form some sort of question list at log in. Two simple questions:
1) Do you want a DP? (Yes) (No)
2) If you HAD to have one what would it be? (note you cannot put none as the answer)
This would give them all the info they need to either A) set one up based on what the playerbase says the 'least' dp should be or not put one up because of all the players saying no.
Comments
My position now is not so much for a DP as I am for a change in the way battle damage in space combat is done. Klingon Academy had the best battle damage system of any Star Trek game. All of your ship systems were at 100% including hull and power. As you took damage your percentages would fall and the ship would take on visible battle damage as in missing sections of the hull and warp nacells damaged or destroyed. If your ship hull went to 0% you died just like in this game. If you survived, depending on the severity of the damage, your ship would max repair to 80-90% and still carry visible battle damage and some systems like weapons were less efficient. Now every other space game I have ever played from Privateer to SWG required credits to repair your ship. I cannot believe how many people are against having to pay for repairs and refit. Cool thing is, you don't have to go back to a starbase to get fixed. you can continue on, a little worse for wear, like the Enterprise in my avatar. Imagine having to use some strategy, do I get my ship fixed at a starbase now or can I fight in this weakened state? Do I want to pay less for repairs, or risk paying more if I am destroyed? Repair cost would be based on severity of damage and tier lvl of the ship. Lower level, less cost, simple. The way the game is now, I can be damaged to 1% hull and recover back to 100%, not very realistic and kind of kills immersion a bit.
If you die, you have to pay to restore your ship, again cost based on ship tier. Again this is how it worked in Privateer to SWG. Death was not just a respawn, heres your fixed ship good as new. Is that really so painful? I hope the devs look at this as a way to improve the game mechanics, like battle damage, instead of instituting a silly DP.
Adding a DP to an easy game just results in an easy game with a DP.
I too want the content to be more challenging. Challenging enough that I am defeated frequently. Seeking that level of challenge would be punished rather than encouraged by any DP beyond encounter reset.
I think we got your vote already
Me, I'd like to see the difficulty kicked up a notch, but that's not gonna happen with a DP around. The people who complain that the game is too hard (and who have gotten cool missions nerfed as a result (R.I.P., Briar Patch)) will just have one more thing to complain about if you put in a DP.
BTW, ramming the CE is bad because 1) you won't do much damage to it with the new ramming rules, and 2) if it's below 30% there's a pretty good chance that a large shard will spawn on top of you. You'd end up healing the CE. People aren't getting upset because of what you're doing to your ship - they're upset because you're dragging out the CE fight.
Was referring to before it was buffed. Making the game harder would be a good alternative to a DP - back to the way it was in CB where fights were actually challenging. Regardless, as the devs have said before, a DP is much more likely.
I absolutely agree...
I miss the days when being able to consistently get the hostage ship in one or two tries got me dirty looks on the forums.
I miss that too. 5-10 minutes sometimes to take down a battleship - it just felt right and "epic".
NO
This is exactly why the poll is rather pointless.
PTSD from poorly designed DP are making ppl say no before they even know what they are actually voting for.
/Stealth10char
Do you expect them to get this one thing, that people argue over all the time, over 160 pages of debate here alone. You expect after the mess cryptic has made so far to get this right?
I don't think it is too harsh to say they will TRIBBLE this up and it will be horrible, of course you won't be affected so you'll love it still, unless it is something smart like encounter reset.
No seriously. I hope Crpytic over does the DP.. I CAN'T wait for the QQ to come in.. "so today I was going along ramming my ship into enemies and doing what I do daily.. when suddenly.. wtf is this DP TRIBBLE!?".. I foresee other amusing responses/posts like that.
But as for who he was quoting. Play diablo 2 hardcore.. get a character top 5 highest and suddenly the server takes a TRIBBLE on you.. and you died because of it's their side. Followed by an apology letter from blizzard going "sorry but oh wellz we screwed up". There is your nightmare..... EQ level reset could never be as much of a nightmare as that.
I think cryptic should eliminate the respawn timer and let us just respawn close to where we were with full shields and hull and reset BO power timers.
I have been having a lot of fun, but the respawn timer is a drag, 15 seconds is too long.
Oh and forget this silly DP stuff. The people that want it will just go away eventually and the rest of us will enjoy the game in their absence.
I see what you did there! Sneaky!
All 5 of those people will be surely punished...or more likely will find the next exploit and the rest will suffer.
@.@ : pokes avatar.: meet me in my captains lounge in 5 mins
But yeah I agree.
I want to know what it is im having a opinion on, im sorry if you cannot comprehend that logic.
I think not giving them a chance to improve the game is absurd, if the game is as poor as you say it is because of the "mess cryptic has made so far" then saying NO to them attempting to improve it before you even know what they are gonna do is a act of sheer absurdity.
If there was actual player death in the game, this game would lose subscriptions faster than any game in the history of gaming. The game would be dead inside one month. I'd bet my life on that.
As for the poll not being valid, again, Nielsen runs its entire business plan on the EXACT SAME MODEL. So yes, if the poll here says it's 60/40, the odds are 99.9% that the entire STO playerbase would roughly go 60/40 on the issue as well. This is proven in science many times over. There are so many examples of things being done with small sampling in order to get a rough estimate of how the majority would react. Sampling is a proven method.
Clarification, one more time:
The small samples only work provided the proportions on the FORUM match the proportions on the GAME. In the vast majority of games, that simply isn't true.
Again, think of it this way: There are two, opposing, groups of protesters outside the local gvt building. If the goal is to find out what the general public thinks, is polling the protesters going to yield accurate results?
As the above two (which includes the OP) pointed out:
It's valid for the FORUM population, not the total player-base.
The polls Nielsen runs have details and while this poll may be simular in design it is the lack of info that makes it invalid as it preys on others ignorance and fears.
The question may as well be "do you want the game to change in any way" as that is just a vague.
Statistics show that 90% of statistics are made up. In effect probably only about 10% of the actual player base come to these forums and look at these threads, and from what I'm seeing of this poll (Of which it lost its status as a 'poll' and because a large debate on the subject with flames licking on both sides) its just the same people for the most part posting over and over and over again on why they dont want a DP and flaming those that do, and the other way around.
Given how they (Read Cryptic) have implemented DPs before it will probably not even be an annoyance at best. it will probably be some minor debuff that reduces your weapons fire and repair by like 5% per death for 5 minutes. Cryptic really isnt really looking to make the players life a living hell, they have no hidden agenda about it, they dont meet in their Secret Base on mount doom and plot ways to annoy the players more. They have no plans to make an OMGWTF DP that will run the players off and I hate to say it all these people yelling to the high Heavens about it will not be quitting the game because of it. The threaten, they shake their fist, prehaps kick a small puppie but they will still be here, and they will complain when the next nerf of some nature comes in and they will teat it as if Cryptic is personally coming over and making their life hell. Even then they wont quit the game.
Either way I really wish people would quit taking this DP thing so seriously.
I had to quote that just because of how ironic it was...
Come to think of it I think i will ad that to my sig.
Only way to get an accurate view on that (The entire player base) is to form some sort of question list at log in. Two simple questions:
1) Do you want a DP? (Yes) (No)
2) If you HAD to have one what would it be? (note you cannot put none as the answer)
This would give them all the info they need to either A) set one up based on what the playerbase says the 'least' dp should be or
Edit: it would have to be 'non trial' accounts