I scoured for a clip and yeah it's an animal, a very large cow or deer looking thing that tastes similar to a Bajoran bird apparently.
Still it means Borg can consume food if they can't regenerate which means the Queen using the biomatter of drones to survive isn't a massive stretch. Technically it's only cannibalism if any of the drones were of the same race as the Queen.
We already knew that Borg separated from the collective could eventually consume food. Preparing and eating an animal is a far cry from cannibalism though.
"I, Borg" tells us the Borg need energy, not food. The death star Borg cube in the clips from the Return of the JediPicard finale looks to have had power to spare given it still has all kinds of weapons and the massive green sphere thing. With that much available power, why does the queen need to eat drones again?
Does it explain how Emporer Palpatine the queen grew arms too?
The movie showed that the queens are cyborg constructs loaded with the queen personality condensed from the collective, not biologicals who start with natural bodies who are then assimilated and modified by the nanites. It is not the first time there has been minor construction differences.
One theory is that the tech part is faster to construct than the biological part, so depending on time constraints each particular queen could have more or less in the way of biological parts (if that is the case then First Contact probably represents the minimum level of biomatter for a functional queen).
The queen in second season PIC was running around using her arms and hands (and the weird tech-tentacles) at one point like the robots Hewy, Dewy, and Louie in Silent Running.
The movie showed that the queens are cyborg constructs loaded with the queen personality condensed from the collective, not biologicals who start with natural bodies who are then assimilated and modified by the nanites. It is not the first time there has been minor construction differences.
One theory is that the tech part is faster to construct than the biological part, so depending on time constraints each particular queen could have more or less in the way of biological parts (if that is the case then First Contact probably represents the minimum level of biomatter for a functional queen).
Presumably there was an original template or possibly several templates that were assimilated the traditional way. One Queen wouldn't be able to recall being a member of Species 125 otherwise (not that fibbing isn't in their wheelhouse mind you) so they just copy and paste but that had to start somewhere once.
Picard season 1 had Seven get half way queenified so you could theoretically assume that a Queen could be installed by promoting a regular drone if the current template was unavailable or considered obsolete. Which would make STO's simulacrum and Romulan Queens make some sense.
Didn't one of the novels make Janeway a Borg Queen once?
The look of the Borg Queen was consistent from First Contact through Voyager. It makes sense as the production was able to re-use existing costumes. All of the sets and costume pieces have long since been dismantled or sold off, so it makes sense that there would be some re-design of the character. With that said, they could have remained consistent with prior work in giving her a fully artificial body. Not sure what purpose it served for Emporer Palpatine the queen to have real flesh arms and connected to whatever that device was she was mounted on. Her look was more consistent with prior design in the second season of Picard.
@valoreah With your SW references, I'm glad that in order for Emporer Palpatine the queen to somehow return in Star Trek Picard, they didn't follow SW garbage example of permanently killing off fan favorite characters in order to make way for the newer characters, I also like how well developed the new characters in Picard especially when compared to the newer characters in SW, So far Din Djarin (aka Mando), Grogu (aka Baby Yoda), Jyn (from Rogue One), Ahsoka, Cara Dune and the Bad Batch are all way more developed then any of new characters introduced in the last 3 mainline SW movies.
Since when has Worf ever been know for his medical or scientific accuracy?
Worf is not a moron lol.
That's not at all what I said.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
The look of the Borg Queen was consistent from First Contact through Voyager. It makes sense as the production was able to re-use existing costumes. All of the sets and costume pieces have long since been dismantled or sold off, so it makes sense that there would be some re-design of the character. With that said, they could have remained consistent with prior work in giving her a fully artificial body. Not sure what purpose it served for Emporer Palpatine the queen to have real flesh arms and connected to whatever that device was she was mounted on. Her look was more consistent with prior design in the second season of Picard.
@valoreah With your SW references, I'm glad that in order for Emporer Palpatine the queen to somehow return in Star Trek Picard, they didn't follow SW garbage example of permanently killing off fan favorite characters in order to make way for the newer characters,
Nevertheless, LOL, I didn't even realize the bridge parallel with Star Wars, until it got pointed out to me here. But yeah, it's the same type of elevated platform, with surrounding windows in a circle, as the famous scene with Emporer Palpatine:
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,577Community Moderator
Considering the tech available back in the 90s they couldn't even DREAM of any complicated maneuvers, so most ships were shown as "lumbering behemoths". But we also fail to recognize that those ships are traveling quite fast even at sublight Impulse speeds, mostly from the fact that there really isn't anything around to JUDGE how fast they are going.
As for zipping around in universe the way she did... it is possible that the they transferred power from the lower decks to augment shields, weapons, and engines. I mean why do you need Life Support on Deck 45 when the only occupied deck is Deck 1?
Also... Data is FULLY AWARE of the maneuvering capabilities of a Galaxy class, with the processing and reaction capabilities that outdo the best computers in the Federation. He was literally the only one who COULD pull it off.
To me it makes sense that the Galaxy class was CAPABLE of pulling those maneuvers, on top of the fact that she was inside something far bigger than anything ever seen by Starfleet other than V'Ger. Anything THAT large would make even a "lumbering behemoth" look like a starfighter in comparison.
IMO the only thing that might have made it even MORE epic was if the Enterprise was going full out on phasers like in Best of Both Worlds. Just full on phasers in all directions from multiple arrays rather than mostly the dorsal and ventral saucer arrays. Still... the Gray Ghost came back to save the day. And it was awesome.
Which brings up another point...if positronic brains are so much more capable than Starfleet computers...why aren't they using positronic-based computers? If you can have that level of processing power in something the size of a human brain, that sure seems way more efficient than having...however big a typical starship computer is taking up all that space.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Which brings up another point...if positronic brains are so much more capable than Starfleet computers...why aren't they using positronic-based computers? If you can have that level of processing power in something the size of a human brain, that sure seems way more efficient than having...however big a typical starship computer is taking up all that space.
In The Offspring, Lal was a Soong-type android constructed by Data, but, in the end, he himself failed to keep her stable. Tl;dr: making a positronic brain is hard; and only Noonian Soong pulled it off successfully (and even he more-or-less failed with Lore). Plus, making a positronic brain was forbidden, at the time, iirc.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Which brings up another point...if positronic brains are so much more capable than Starfleet computers...why aren't they using positronic-based computers? If you can have that level of processing power in something the size of a human brain, that sure seems way more efficient than having...however big a typical starship computer is taking up all that space.
The Feds HAVE to have something like that already. How else could 6 people competently and effectively run a Starship originally designed to need a crew of 1000+?
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Keep in mind that the writer(s) only have a very cursory knowledge of Star Trek, so most everything from established canon is ignored. This was most likely written to make the story more gritty/edgy/grimdark and to reflect the desperation of the queen.
I didn't see anyone else address this in the thread, but Season 3's showrunner (whom also wrote some of the episodes in S2 & S3 of Picard) was a production assistant for Brannon Braga during the last couple of seasons of Voyager & was a production associate for the whole series of Star Trek: Enterprise. He was always a fan of the series.
Which brings up another point...if positronic brains are so much more capable than Starfleet computers...why aren't they using positronic-based computers? If you can have that level of processing power in something the size of a human brain, that sure seems way more efficient than having...however big a typical starship computer is taking up all that space.
They did use positronics, all the way back in TOS in fact. Duotronics is an integration of positronic and electronic elements in a fairly crude way (according to Daystrom anyway) and multitronics takes it a step further somehow, in a way that they never got around to specifying.
In Tomorrow is Yesterday they show the ship's computer can develop a personality and decide to do minor things on its own (like teasing and flirtation) if it is not suppressed properly during maintenance (Yes, a heavy armored battlecruiser giggles and pouts and generally acts a bit like a stereotypical teenage girl if left on its own too long).
The TAS episode The Practical Joker shows that under the right circumstances the computer can even slip its constraints and do more than just talk oddly, and that it can become a danger to the crew because despite sounding human it has no empathy or understanding of the human(oid) condition.
Multitronics can have a functional engram impressed on it so not only is it self-aware complete with a sense of self-preservation, it can also understand morals and whatnot even though it tends to be coldly logical unless someone forces it to confront the moral implications of its actions. It helps too if the engram is from a sane person...
In TNG apparently they use multitronic computers to some extent, though apparently with limitations on them (probably similar to the ones that kept the Constitutions from giggling) since they mention them at least once or twice. The difficulty with the Soong type androids seems to in spinning up a stable positronic matrix, which is implied to be more of a software than a hardware problem. Positronic processors themselves are obviously not a problem and haven't been one since the early 23rd century.
Which brings up another point...if positronic brains are so much more capable than Starfleet computers...why aren't they using positronic-based computers? If you can have that level of processing power in something the size of a human brain, that sure seems way more efficient than having...however big a typical starship computer is taking up all that space.
The Feds HAVE to have something like that already. How else could 6 people competently and effectively run a Starship originally designed to need a crew of 1000+?
I think GCS have crew of only about 700 or so in Beta content (nothing on crew size in alpha only that there's around 1000 people on board typically including families and other civilians not part of the crew). Also even in modern days warships (which the GCS follows design wise) have way more crew then it's absolutely needed to run it for damage control and to allow shifts.
In addition it's only about 175-250 crew members needed to run the ship as GCS could be ran with 4 shifts and I'm assuming 0 overlap between shifts here even with 50% overlap between shifts we're talking about 350 to 500 crew members.
Which brings up another point...if positronic brains are so much more capable than Starfleet computers...why aren't they using positronic-based computers? If you can have that level of processing power in something the size of a human brain, that sure seems way more efficient than having...however big a typical starship computer is taking up all that space.
The Feds HAVE to have something like that already. How else could 6 people competently and effectively run a Starship originally designed to need a crew of 1000+?
I think GCS have crew of only about 700 or so in Beta content (nothing on crew size in alpha only that there's around 1000 people on board typically including families and other civilians not part of the crew). Also even in modern days warships (which the GCS follows design wise) have way more crew then it's absolutely needed to run it for damage control and to allow shifts.
In addition it's only about 175-250 crew members needed to run the ship as GCS could be ran with 4 shifts and I'm assuming 0 overlap between shifts here even with 50% overlap between shifts we're talking about 350 to 500 crew members.
But it was still being run by six people, all except the android being past their prime (androids don't have a prime, after all). This implies some serious automation going on.
Which brings up another point...if positronic brains are so much more capable than Starfleet computers...why aren't they using positronic-based computers? If you can have that level of processing power in something the size of a human brain, that sure seems way more efficient than having...however big a typical starship computer is taking up all that space.
The Feds HAVE to have something like that already. How else could 6 people competently and effectively run a Starship originally designed to need a crew of 1000+?
I think GCS have crew of only about 700 or so in Beta content (nothing on crew size in alpha only that there's around 1000 people on board typically including families and other civilians not part of the crew). Also even in modern days warships (which the GCS follows design wise) have way more crew then it's absolutely needed to run it for damage control and to allow shifts.
In addition it's only about 175-250 crew members needed to run the ship as GCS could be ran with 4 shifts and I'm assuming 0 overlap between shifts here even with 50% overlap between shifts we're talking about 350 to 500 crew members.
But it was still being run by six people, all except the android being past their prime (androids don't have a prime, after all). This implies some serious automation going on.
Yes obviously though my point that such automation isn't actually that far out of the realm of possible as people think
Does it explain how Emporer Palpatine the queen grew arms too?
Even is STFC the Queen was just a Head with a Cyborg spine. One would assume the Borg could make any body as organic or cybernetic as they like. And in canabalizeing her Drones, she still had the ability to modify her Cube so again, making a new body for herself doesn't seem too much of a stretch here.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
What would be the point of having any crew at all then? Just automate the ship and send it out to do its thing.
Because automated Drone Ships can't do experiments on their own, can't meet new people in any meaningful way, and most of all...
Don't have the emotions associated with seeing new things or the thrill of adventure.
There would be no Boldly Going with a drone ship. It would be Boldly... Sitting behind a desk at Earth Spacedock with paperwork while some automated Drone has all the fun.
Yes obviously though my point that such automation isn't actually that far out of the realm of possible as people think
What would be the point of having any crew at all then? Just automate the ship and send it out to do its thing.
That's been tried, with the M5 experiment and the Texas-class. I imagine that would leave Command a little gun-shy about launching ships without living oversight.
Comments
Watching the episode does kind of answer that.
The movie showed that the queens are cyborg constructs loaded with the queen personality condensed from the collective, not biologicals who start with natural bodies who are then assimilated and modified by the nanites. It is not the first time there has been minor construction differences.
One theory is that the tech part is faster to construct than the biological part, so depending on time constraints each particular queen could have more or less in the way of biological parts (if that is the case then First Contact probably represents the minimum level of biomatter for a functional queen).
Presumably there was an original template or possibly several templates that were assimilated the traditional way. One Queen wouldn't be able to recall being a member of Species 125 otherwise (not that fibbing isn't in their wheelhouse mind you) so they just copy and paste but that had to start somewhere once.
Picard season 1 had Seven get half way queenified so you could theoretically assume that a Queen could be installed by promoting a regular drone if the current template was unavailable or considered obsolete. Which would make STO's simulacrum and Romulan Queens make some sense.
Didn't one of the novels make Janeway a Borg Queen once?
@valoreah With your SW references, I'm glad that in order for Emporer Palpatine the queen to somehow return in Star Trek Picard, they didn't follow SW garbage example of permanently killing off fan favorite characters in order to make way for the newer characters, I also like how well developed the new characters in Picard especially when compared to the newer characters in SW, So far Din Djarin (aka Mando), Grogu (aka Baby Yoda), Jyn (from Rogue One), Ahsoka, Cara Dune and the Bad Batch are all way more developed then any of new characters introduced in the last 3 mainline SW movies.
That's not at all what I said.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Nevertheless, LOL, I didn't even realize the bridge parallel with Star Wars, until it got pointed out to me here.
As for zipping around in universe the way she did... it is possible that the they transferred power from the lower decks to augment shields, weapons, and engines. I mean why do you need Life Support on Deck 45 when the only occupied deck is Deck 1?
Also... Data is FULLY AWARE of the maneuvering capabilities of a Galaxy class, with the processing and reaction capabilities that outdo the best computers in the Federation. He was literally the only one who COULD pull it off.
To me it makes sense that the Galaxy class was CAPABLE of pulling those maneuvers, on top of the fact that she was inside something far bigger than anything ever seen by Starfleet other than V'Ger. Anything THAT large would make even a "lumbering behemoth" look like a starfighter in comparison.
IMO the only thing that might have made it even MORE epic was if the Enterprise was going full out on phasers like in Best of Both Worlds. Just full on phasers in all directions from multiple arrays rather than mostly the dorsal and ventral saucer arrays. Still... the Gray Ghost came back to save the day. And it was awesome.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
In The Offspring, Lal was a Soong-type android constructed by Data, but, in the end, he himself failed to keep her stable. Tl;dr: making a positronic brain is hard; and only Noonian Soong pulled it off successfully (and even he more-or-less failed with Lore). Plus, making a positronic brain was forbidden, at the time, iirc.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
The Feds HAVE to have something like that already. How else could 6 people competently and effectively run a Starship originally designed to need a crew of 1000+?
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I didn't see anyone else address this in the thread, but Season 3's showrunner (whom also wrote some of the episodes in S2 & S3 of Picard) was a production assistant for Brannon Braga during the last couple of seasons of Voyager & was a production associate for the whole series of Star Trek: Enterprise. He was always a fan of the series.
They did use positronics, all the way back in TOS in fact. Duotronics is an integration of positronic and electronic elements in a fairly crude way (according to Daystrom anyway) and multitronics takes it a step further somehow, in a way that they never got around to specifying.
In Tomorrow is Yesterday they show the ship's computer can develop a personality and decide to do minor things on its own (like teasing and flirtation) if it is not suppressed properly during maintenance (Yes, a heavy armored battlecruiser giggles and pouts and generally acts a bit like a stereotypical teenage girl if left on its own too long).
The TAS episode The Practical Joker shows that under the right circumstances the computer can even slip its constraints and do more than just talk oddly, and that it can become a danger to the crew because despite sounding human it has no empathy or understanding of the human(oid) condition.
Multitronics can have a functional engram impressed on it so not only is it self-aware complete with a sense of self-preservation, it can also understand morals and whatnot even though it tends to be coldly logical unless someone forces it to confront the moral implications of its actions. It helps too if the engram is from a sane person...
In TNG apparently they use multitronic computers to some extent, though apparently with limitations on them (probably similar to the ones that kept the Constitutions from giggling) since they mention them at least once or twice. The difficulty with the Soong type androids seems to in spinning up a stable positronic matrix, which is implied to be more of a software than a hardware problem. Positronic processors themselves are obviously not a problem and haven't been one since the early 23rd century.
In addition it's only about 175-250 crew members needed to run the ship as GCS could be ran with 4 shifts and I'm assuming 0 overlap between shifts here even with 50% overlap between shifts we're talking about 350 to 500 crew members.
Yes obviously though my point that such automation isn't actually that far out of the realm of possible as people think
Even is STFC the Queen was just a Head with a Cyborg spine. One would assume the Borg could make any body as organic or cybernetic as they like. And in canabalizeing her Drones, she still had the ability to modify her Cube so again, making a new body for herself doesn't seem too much of a stretch here.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Because automated Drone Ships can't do experiments on their own, can't meet new people in any meaningful way, and most of all...
Don't have the emotions associated with seeing new things or the thrill of adventure.
There would be no Boldly Going with a drone ship. It would be Boldly... Sitting behind a desk at Earth Spacedock with paperwork while some automated Drone has all the fun.