1) The entire concept of the FCT and it's use to completely shutdown all discussion of a particular topic. Yes, certain things are never going to happen and we've been told as much, but it can still be fun to talk about those things anyway. Imo the FCT should be changed to a simple FAQ thread that we can refer back to as necessary, there aren't exactly a lot of people on the forums these days anyway. This is the primary reason that I prefer the STO Reddit, the toxicity may be a lot higher but over there I can actually talk about almost anything I want as long as it's STO related.
FCT deals with things that already have a definitive answer or are flashpoints that have resulted in mass Moderation action being taken.
1) The Star Trek Online License
2) Star Trek Online 2.0
3) Scheduled Maintenance Downtimes
4) ARC is Full of Bloat/Spyware
5) Will We See My X Transfer Over to Console/PC?
6) Steam Usage Stats Prove the Game is Dying!
7) T5U vs T6 is Wrong and Here Is My Solution to Upgrade to T6
8) Tovan Khev Needs to be Dismissable
9) Dev's Don't Read Our Bug Reports/Don't Come on the Forums!
10) Full Custom Starship Interiors
11) Flying Your Ship from the Bridge
12) Kickstarter Threads
13) Day/Night Cycles and Lighting 2.0
14) Why No Vortas or Female Jem'Hadar in the Dominion Faction?
15) Inclusion of Fan-Designed Ships or Ships from Other Star Trek Licensees
16) Disco Balls (Party Amplifer) Threads
17) Doom Threads
18) General Rage Threads
19) General Demand Threads
20) Rank/Level/Title Change Threads
21) Threads with Vague or Incomplete Thread Titles
22) Gatekeeping
23) Account-wide Unlock of Lockbox, Lobi, and/or R&D Promotion Ships
24) The Foundry
25) Dilithium Refinement Cap Increase
26) Why can't we customize weapons color?
NOTE: Topic Listings below in YELLOW are topics/questions where an official response/answer has been provided. Topic Listings below in RED are topics that are no longer allowed due to causing forum moderation issues: flaming, trolling, harassment, etc.
This is direct from the FCT thread.
Many of these are pretty much common sense on why we crack down on them, because they always devolve into some kind of negative bash fest, flame war, ect, or otherwise have been pretty much locked in stone by the Devs. The reason it exists is to try and keep the forums from being cluttered with topics like this where, frankly, discussion of said topics is pointless or meant to provoke others.
In the case of #21: Vague or Incomplete Thread Titles, we generally try and give the OP a warning to make the name more clear so that they can have a discussion.
I think we can all agree that we don't want to bash our heads against the wall of subjects that have already been locked in stone, and no one wants to read a flame war.
And to expand on this in case anyone brings up Necromancy... that is to keep things up to date. Resurrecting a thread from 5-6 years ago may not reflect the state of the game today. That is why we deal with Zombie threads. Because the information is out of date. Who is going to know about X from 10 years ago starting out today? Sometimes we do make exceptions to the Necromancy rule, the most prominent was involving the Red Angel Suit after its initial release. But we still want everyone to be aware of when the last post was made and try not casting Necromancy.
I agree when it's a thread that's 5 or 6 years old and almost no one posting in it is around anymore.
However, a couple of days ago a thread was closed where the OP was talking about/requesting more Vulcan ships - and did so again a little over a month later. Meaning that, yes, technically it was necromancy.
To close it and have people re-create a thread on the exact same topic seems rather silly in cases like these (posts not that old, the OP himself still being involved in the discussion, no snarky comments towards someone who may long have forgotten the thread just to score some points) though.
I understand that, in order to keep things a bit objective, you guys need to enforce some rules even when it might seem silly. Still, it might be worth it to consider changing some things regarding that rule. I think we talked about that a long time ago (may even have been with Jo Darkrider who I believe said would look into it).
Lastly, I can see why people think it's problematic if too many things are no longer considered acceptable discussion topics. In some cases, again, it makes perfect sense like with Kickstarters or STO 2 because they're just not allowed or going to happen. In other cases though, there is continued relevance. To be honest, I didn't even know that things like #23 and #25 were on the list and, in my opinion, they shouldn't be because - as the game continues to develop - so might these discussions.
Honest question - what difference since you could say said rules are created from personal bias? Not looking to start an argument here, just genuinely curious.
Counter question - Would you prefer absolute anarchy where every thread turns into Thunderdome and the point of the topic in question is totally lost in flame wars?
To be clear, there is a difference between enforcing forum rules as set by the owners of said forum, and going out of one's way to attack others for not believing as they do based on personal bias.
Honest question - what difference since you could say said rules are created from personal bias? Not looking to start an argument here, just genuinely curious.
This is a good point.
I have always hated the FCT as it serves as an arbitrary ruling on things that the community cannot discus, even though they are things that they want to discuss.
These forums used to be extremely active, with topics constantly moving. Bot the more we are told that we cannot discuss and get out threads closed because we even so much as brush up against those forbidden topics, people have just stopped bothering. Now we've just got the same few vocal individuals hurling mud at each other and at cryptic. It used to be that unpopular topics would just get pushed off the first page in a matter of hours. Now it takes weeks for them to move off the first page.
This community is among the walking dead. We just don't want to admit it. I look at the things being said in this thread alone and I have realized that there is no point in moving to the middle, striving for a meeting of the minds. This community does not want to meet Cryptic in the middle. Cryptic sees it, so they don't bother.
So, I think I am done. I'm not going back to my previous jerk attitude, but there is no point fighting a battle that is clearly lost before it even begins.
So, you're going to give up acting decently, because other people won't. You'll let others and their attitudes dictate how you will choose to behave. Got it.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Honest question - what difference since you could say said rules are created from personal bias? Not looking to start an argument here, just genuinely curious.
Counter question - Would you prefer absolute anarchy where every thread turns into Thunderdome and the point of the topic in question is totally lost in flame wars?
No one has asked for no rules at all, but most of the flame wars these forums used to have ended when Dental disappeared, and they've gotten even less common since a certain departure back in December.
The forum rules were written by the folks who own and run this forum. It's not gatekeeping to have rules in a discussion space. The gatekeeping rules was established to curtail the "You're not a real fan if you like X/don't like X" stuff that was running rampant at the time. It's enforced on a case by case basis, and the mods do a good job of finding those cases and ruling on them fairly.
The FCT exists to curtail a rush of new players appearing and asking the same questions over and over, that have already been answered. If you're about to say, "Well that doesn't happen," it's because the FCT exists. It's doing its job well. The reason that discussion of many of those topics is shut down is because they often are flash points for arguments that get heated very quickly. Because of the way the forum works, as I mentioned before, flame wars are treated as the most important, going right to the top of the page. So we're somewhat heavy handed in trying to avoid those.
I don't think these forums are a cesspit of darkness of whatever, and I apologize if I gave that impression. But since I'm the moderator's Ultimate Weapon, I get brought in a lot on discussions like these that are more heated, and a lot of times full of people calling for my job or head or whatever, so that might be affecting my bias. Still attempting to be more present and do better about that.
Counter question - Would you prefer absolute anarchy where every thread turns into Thunderdome and the point of the topic in question is totally lost in flame wars?
Well, for starters I think this is a gross exaggeration of reality and not what would happen the overwhelming majority of the time. Secondly and quite frankly, this is what ignore functionality is for. People can set their own level of comfort with what they want to read and whom they want to follow or ignore completely. Everyone can make that determination for themselves instead of having moderators make the decisions for them. The game itself has an ignore function that works swimmingly.
For me personally, I am an adult more than capable of sifting through any noise to plumb the gist of a discussion. Reading snarky comments posted by people I will never know or meet in real life does not bother me in the least. With that said, I understand others feel differently and again, this is what ignore functionality is made for.
Perhaps you might answer my question now?
except it's not an exaggration at all. No moderation would turn the forums into a garbage filled cesspit. history has proven that time and time and time again.
The rules are NOT that hard to follow. I mean they basicly come up as "don't personal attack people, don't post advertisements for other products, 'keep it PG' " etc. it's all things that anyone with a lick of sense would expect. yes it means you can't call someone you disagree with an idiot. It means you may have to be SLIGHTLY diplomatic when making complaints. None of these are things a mature adult should have trouble with
> @ambassadorkael#6946 said: > I don't think these forums are a cesspit of darkness of whatever, and I apologize if I gave that impression. >
Thanks for saying that!
I agree with Evil Mark and Valoreah that things used to be a lot worse around here. And although I think some of the moderators are a little overzealous at censoring my witty, well-written, and poignant burns, I think that we should be thankful that the team is really rather sensible. The rules the way they are written could be far more draconian in their enforcement.
And honestly if this thread is the biggest dumpster fire on here, things seem relatively tame. The popcorn vendors haven’t even taken up shop.
except it's not an exaggration at all. No moderation would turn the forums into a garbage filled cesspit. history has proven that time and time and time again.
Of course it is an exaggeration. A gross exaggeration. All one need to is look around the various sub-forums to see all kinds of discussions that have not devolved into any kind of argument.
I have been here since BETA and these forums have never been as bad or as dire as you are describing.
I think the crux of any question/discussion asked was touched on a few posts back. We ask, and rarely if ever get answers or replies. I came under fire after in another thread it was apparent to me that some members of the staff make rare appearances when communicating with the customers is essentially their role.
Shame on me if I said it in a way that was offensive, but if i may suggest, If you are on staff, and you rely to something, GIVE US SOME EXPECTATIONS. Hey, vetteguy, I don't know what the deal is with your question, give me a week to find out (week being too long in my opinion, but I get it, life is busy) a great example was the Dev Q and A. opened June 10. on July 9 a thread was opened asking what's up? @rattler2 answered. Did not know the answer, would ask during the week, Basic good customer service, acknowledge the question, state an action and a time frame.
In fairness, I do see Kael has answered the questions tonight. and that is appreciated. I would have liked to have seen when the thread was closed, a something like Hey we have a lot of good stuff to ask, we are going to close the thread down, give us a couple weeks, we will reply back to this thread.. so keep an eye out. that would have shown that you do care for our opinions, and affirm you are working on our behalf.. and I might have saved a thread being opened which was basically, you guys fell through, what's up? Trust me, the frustration is when there is silence. TELL us that it's going to take time to find out. come back and periodically tell us, hey, stuff happened but i have not forgotten about you. it will do wonders for keeping the pot from boiling over, but it will take efforts on both sides
so Twitter is the official media of STO? that's pretty sad considering that companies... moderation rules. I'm willing to bet there are 10 people in this thread who left twitter in disgust or have been banned for not following the SJW positions
I never joined that garbage to begin with. It was explained earlier the Devs like Twitter because they can block people they do not like. Shame that these forums do not have basic tools that would allow them to do the same here. We might see them posting more here and no need for hall monitors.
I hate Twitter too in all honesty.
It isn't somewhere to go to have an actual discussion about anything; the majority of people just reply to the OP without bothering to read any of the conversation in-between or see what points have already been addressed. And it definitely isn't somewhere to give feedback - that's supposed to be what the forum is for.
That happens frequently here too - many times people go posting in threads without having actually read the entire thing; that's not a Twitter issue, that's a HUMAN issue.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Counter question - Would you prefer absolute anarchy where every thread turns into Thunderdome and the point of the topic in question is totally lost in flame wars?
Well, for starters I think this is a gross exaggeration of reality and not what would happen the overwhelming majority of the time. Secondly and quite frankly, this is what ignore functionality is for. People can set their own level of comfort with what they want to read and whom they want to follow or ignore completely. Everyone can make that determination for themselves instead of having moderators make the decisions for them. The game itself has an ignore function that works swimmingly.
For me personally, I am an adult more than capable of sifting through any noise to plumb the gist of a discussion. Reading snarky comments posted by people I will never know or meet in real life does not bother me in the least. With that said, I understand others feel differently and again, this is what ignore functionality is made for.
Perhaps you might answer my question now?
except it's not an exaggration at all. No moderation would turn the forums into a garbage filled cesspit. history has proven that time and time and time again.
The rules are NOT that hard to follow. I mean they basicly come up as "don't personal attack people, don't post advertisements for other products, 'keep it PG' " etc. it's all things that anyone with a lick of sense would expect. yes it means you can't call someone you disagree with an idiot. It means you may have to be SLIGHTLY diplomatic when making complaints. None of these are things a mature adult should have trouble with
I had to LOL: when was the last time you factually and candidly criticized a person of a gaming company on said gaming company's own forum without your post/thread/account getting nuked into oblivion?
Before everything goes to Hell in a portable transporter buffer, I would like to say that I appreciate the Mods consideration throughout this thread.
Considering the rules and the subject this thread could have easily gone to the dogs a long time ago. Indeed, on that point I would also extend my appreciation to those Forumites (Forumoids? Forumatics? Forumiculati?) who have much more to say but have decided to choose their battle wisely. Battleground, even.
Now that the niceties are out of the way, I believe I am owed some Quatloos...
Counter question - Would you prefer absolute anarchy where every thread turns into Thunderdome and the point of the topic in question is totally lost in flame wars?
Well, for starters I think this is a gross exaggeration of reality and not what would happen the overwhelming majority of the time. Secondly and quite frankly, this is what ignore functionality is for. People can set their own level of comfort with what they want to read and whom they want to follow or ignore completely. Everyone can make that determination for themselves instead of having moderators make the decisions for them. The game itself has an ignore function that works swimmingly.
For me personally, I am an adult more than capable of sifting through any noise to plumb the gist of a discussion. Reading snarky comments posted by people I will never know or meet in real life does not bother me in the least. With that said, I understand others feel differently and again, this is what ignore functionality is made for.
Perhaps you might answer my question now?
except it's not an exaggration at all. No moderation would turn the forums into a garbage filled cesspit. history has proven that time and time and time again.
The rules are NOT that hard to follow. I mean they basicly come up as "don't personal attack people, don't post advertisements for other products, 'keep it PG' " etc. it's all things that anyone with a lick of sense would expect. yes it means you can't call someone you disagree with an idiot. It means you may have to be SLIGHTLY diplomatic when making complaints. None of these are things a mature adult should have trouble with
I had to LOL: when was the last time you factually and candidly criticized a person of a gaming company on said gaming company's own forum without your post/thread/account getting nuked into oblivion?
(Trolling comments moderated out. - BMR)
... um yesterday? the trick is I don't confuse "candily" with "rudely"
Comments
I agree when it's a thread that's 5 or 6 years old and almost no one posting in it is around anymore.
However, a couple of days ago a thread was closed where the OP was talking about/requesting more Vulcan ships - and did so again a little over a month later. Meaning that, yes, technically it was necromancy.
To close it and have people re-create a thread on the exact same topic seems rather silly in cases like these (posts not that old, the OP himself still being involved in the discussion, no snarky comments towards someone who may long have forgotten the thread just to score some points) though.
I understand that, in order to keep things a bit objective, you guys need to enforce some rules even when it might seem silly. Still, it might be worth it to consider changing some things regarding that rule. I think we talked about that a long time ago (may even have been with Jo Darkrider who I believe said would look into it).
Lastly, I can see why people think it's problematic if too many things are no longer considered acceptable discussion topics. In some cases, again, it makes perfect sense like with Kickstarters or STO 2 because they're just not allowed or going to happen. In other cases though, there is continued relevance. To be honest, I didn't even know that things like #23 and #25 were on the list and, in my opinion, they shouldn't be because - as the game continues to develop - so might these discussions.
Counter question - Would you prefer absolute anarchy where every thread turns into Thunderdome and the point of the topic in question is totally lost in flame wars?
So, you're going to give up acting decently, because other people won't. You'll let others and their attitudes dictate how you will choose to behave. Got it.
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
Facebook / Twitter / Twitch
No one has asked for no rules at all, but most of the flame wars these forums used to have ended when Dental disappeared, and they've gotten even less common since a certain departure back in December.
The forum rules were written by the folks who own and run this forum. It's not gatekeeping to have rules in a discussion space. The gatekeeping rules was established to curtail the "You're not a real fan if you like X/don't like X" stuff that was running rampant at the time. It's enforced on a case by case basis, and the mods do a good job of finding those cases and ruling on them fairly.
The FCT exists to curtail a rush of new players appearing and asking the same questions over and over, that have already been answered. If you're about to say, "Well that doesn't happen," it's because the FCT exists.
I don't think these forums are a cesspit of darkness of whatever, and I apologize if I gave that impression. But since I'm the moderator's Ultimate Weapon, I get brought in a lot on discussions like these that are more heated, and a lot of times full of people calling for my job or head or whatever, so that might be affecting my bias. Still attempting to be more present and do better about that.
except it's not an exaggration at all. No moderation would turn the forums into a garbage filled cesspit. history has proven that time and time and time again.
The rules are NOT that hard to follow. I mean they basicly come up as "don't personal attack people, don't post advertisements for other products, 'keep it PG' " etc. it's all things that anyone with a lick of sense would expect. yes it means you can't call someone you disagree with an idiot. It means you may have to be SLIGHTLY diplomatic when making complaints. None of these are things a mature adult should have trouble with
> I don't think these forums are a cesspit of darkness of whatever, and I apologize if I gave that impression.
>
Thanks for saying that!
I agree with Evil Mark and Valoreah that things used to be a lot worse around here. And although I think some of the moderators are a little overzealous at censoring my witty, well-written, and poignant burns, I think that we should be thankful that the team is really rather sensible. The rules the way they are written could be far more draconian in their enforcement.
And honestly if this thread is the biggest dumpster fire on here, things seem relatively tame. The popcorn vendors haven’t even taken up shop.
and the forums have been moderated since Beta
Shame on me if I said it in a way that was offensive, but if i may suggest, If you are on staff, and you rely to something, GIVE US SOME EXPECTATIONS. Hey, vetteguy, I don't know what the deal is with your question, give me a week to find out (week being too long in my opinion, but I get it, life is busy) a great example was the Dev Q and A. opened June 10. on July 9 a thread was opened asking what's up? @rattler2 answered. Did not know the answer, would ask during the week, Basic good customer service, acknowledge the question, state an action and a time frame.
In fairness, I do see Kael has answered the questions tonight. and that is appreciated. I would have liked to have seen when the thread was closed, a something like Hey we have a lot of good stuff to ask, we are going to close the thread down, give us a couple weeks, we will reply back to this thread.. so keep an eye out. that would have shown that you do care for our opinions, and affirm you are working on our behalf.. and I might have saved a thread being opened which was basically, you guys fell through, what's up? Trust me, the frustration is when there is silence. TELL us that it's going to take time to find out. come back and periodically tell us, hey, stuff happened but i have not forgotten about you. it will do wonders for keeping the pot from boiling over, but it will take efforts on both sides
That happens frequently here too - many times people go posting in threads without having actually read the entire thing; that's not a Twitter issue, that's a HUMAN issue.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I had to LOL: when was the last time you factually and candidly criticized a person of a gaming company on said gaming company's own forum without your post/thread/account getting nuked into oblivion?
(Trolling comments moderated out. - BMR)
Considering the rules and the subject this thread could have easily gone to the dogs a long time ago. Indeed, on that point I would also extend my appreciation to those Forumites (Forumoids? Forumatics? Forumiculati?) who have much more to say but have decided to choose their battle wisely. Battleground, even.
Now that the niceties are out of the way, I believe I am owed some Quatloos...
... um yesterday? the trick is I don't confuse "candily" with "rudely"