I would like to apologize to chive and the rest of the forum here for some hasty words I posted in a moment of frustration. As I've stated in this very thread before, I'm only human, too, and just as susceptible to the same spectrum of emotional upheaval as anyone. You all deserve better from me. I will do better.
and as such, my apologies are sent out as well. we all have moments.
now who wants a beer?
or some rommy ale. some cellmates were able to get some. (you would be amazed at the stuff you can get while inside)
I have a crate of Romulan Ale from completely trustworthy sources. In no way did it fall off the back of a trade freighter with my help.
thanks for reminding me. I need to buy ginger ale for my "rumulan ale" cocktail for the 4th party
The only way to find something on Reddit is to google search the particular game/subject or whatever and put 'reddit' after it.
Don't ever use the app btw, it turns the whole thing into that puzzle box from Hellraiser with similar results if you solve it.
Too bad one simply can't shatter those hook chains and free one's self by screaming and powering up like a Super Saiyan.
Seems like a lot of problems that are presented in various horror movies could be solved by just going Super Saiyan, lol.
Ok, I didn't mean to derail the conversation; back to the topic:
People, just behave and mind yourselves. Remember, we're all guests in this house, and it's "their" rules.
so Twitter is the official media of STO? that's pretty sad considering that companies... moderation rules. I'm willing to bet there are 10 people in this thread who left twitter in disgust or have been banned for not following the SJW positions
We Need BERETS in the tailor
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
The problem is that it takes two to communicate. And Cryptic appears to be habitually absent. As I mentioned earlier in this thread: we've been handed instructions on "how to communicate" that, even when followed, don't result in communication.
^ Completely agree. Cannot put it any more plain and simple than that. There are a lot of people here who offer both praise and harsh criticism when either is warranted.
I'll stick to offering praise and constructive criticism. Worked fine for me so far.
Whilst Dev response is rare, I do get some feedback on occasion, however, I prefer leaving them to their own devices. Kael can, on occasion, respond, but I don't expect him to respond promptly and, his 'snaffoo's' aside, he isn't as bad, nor as insulting as some have made him out to be. He has a very dry sense of humour. As in one case I've seen and watched on the livestream, how is he expected to know someone has an ailment that means the 'offended' person has to type in capitals (on FB) but that person then strangely types in lower case in the forums!? Some folk seem to me just to be making excuses, trying to get rid.
As for the forums, I have only ever taken issue with something a moderator said once, and I addressed it in a civil manner. It gets the 'best' response for both. If I haven't received a response to a bug or issue, I just get on with it; I'm extremely patient. There's far worse things to be upset about than throwing pitchforks and fireballs about a bug. Persist, persist, persist.....but be civil about it.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
The main things I personally dislike about moderation on this forum are:
1) The entire concept of the FCT and it's use to completely shutdown all discussion of a particular topic. Yes, certain things are never going to happen and we've been told as much, but it can still be fun to talk about those things anyway. Imo the FCT should be changed to a simple FAQ thread that we can refer back to as necessary, there aren't exactly a lot of people on the forums these days anyway. This is the primary reason that I prefer the STO Reddit, the toxicity may be a lot higher but over there I can actually talk about almost anything I want as long as it's STO related.
2) The mods are always in a hurry to close question threads instead of letting the discussion die out naturally. As long as everyone is being civil and the OP hasn't asked to close it then what's the harm in letting us continue to talk? Why must it always be quickly slammed shut with a post that says "Answered. /thread"? There have been plenty of threads over the years where I've felt I had something to add, but couldn't because of that.
1) The entire concept of the FCT and it's use to completely shutdown all discussion of a particular topic. Yes, certain things are never going to happen and we've been told as much, but it can still be fun to talk about those things anyway. Imo the FCT should be changed to a simple FAQ thread that we can refer back to as necessary, there aren't exactly a lot of people on the forums these days anyway. This is the primary reason that I prefer the STO Reddit, the toxicity may be a lot higher but over there I can actually talk about almost anything I want as long as it's STO related.
FCT deals with things that already have a definitive answer or are flashpoints that have resulted in mass Moderation action being taken.
1) The Star Trek Online License
2) Star Trek Online 2.0
3) Scheduled Maintenance Downtimes
4) ARC is Full of Bloat/Spyware
5) Will We See My X Transfer Over to Console/PC?
6) Steam Usage Stats Prove the Game is Dying!
7) T5U vs T6 is Wrong and Here Is My Solution to Upgrade to T6
8) Tovan Khev Needs to be Dismissable
9) Dev's Don't Read Our Bug Reports/Don't Come on the Forums!
10) Full Custom Starship Interiors
11) Flying Your Ship from the Bridge
12) Kickstarter Threads
13) Day/Night Cycles and Lighting 2.0
14) Why No Vortas or Female Jem'Hadar in the Dominion Faction?
15) Inclusion of Fan-Designed Ships or Ships from Other Star Trek Licensees
16) Disco Balls (Party Amplifer) Threads
17) Doom Threads
18) General Rage Threads
19) General Demand Threads
20) Rank/Level/Title Change Threads
21) Threads with Vague or Incomplete Thread Titles
22) Gatekeeping
23) Account-wide Unlock of Lockbox, Lobi, and/or R&D Promotion Ships
24) The Foundry
25) Dilithium Refinement Cap Increase
26) Why can't we customize weapons color?
NOTE: Topic Listings below in YELLOW are topics/questions where an official response/answer has been provided. Topic Listings below in RED are topics that are no longer allowed due to causing forum moderation issues: flaming, trolling, harassment, etc.
This is direct from the FCT thread.
Many of these are pretty much common sense on why we crack down on them, because they always devolve into some kind of negative bash fest, flame war, ect, or otherwise have been pretty much locked in stone by the Devs. The reason it exists is to try and keep the forums from being cluttered with topics like this where, frankly, discussion of said topics is pointless or meant to provoke others.
In the case of #21: Vague or Incomplete Thread Titles, we generally try and give the OP a warning to make the name more clear so that they can have a discussion.
I think we can all agree that we don't want to bash our heads against the wall of subjects that have already been locked in stone, and no one wants to read a flame war.
And to expand on this in case anyone brings up Necromancy... that is to keep things up to date. Resurrecting a thread from 5-6 years ago may not reflect the state of the game today. That is why we deal with Zombie threads. Because the information is out of date. Who is going to know about X from 10 years ago starting out today? Sometimes we do make exceptions to the Necromancy rule, the most prominent was involving the Red Angel Suit after its initial release. But we still want everyone to be aware of when the last post was made and try not casting Necromancy.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
The reason it exists is to try and keep the forums from being cluttered with topics like this where, frankly, discussion of said topics is pointless or meant to provoke others.
I disagree that discussion is pointless just because it's not going to happen, talking about things is fun provided people are being civil and understand that the things they are speculating about will never happen. And the forums are effectively dead now anyway, so I don't see how things could actually get cluttered these days. At any one time there's only a handful of threads that people are actually talking in, with only a handful of people talking.
Back when the FCT was first created it was a different story, there were a LOT more people and there would sometimes be several threads discussing the same thing that the devs had said no to (such as a T6 Connie, which I think was one of the main reasons the FCT was created in the first place). The forums aren't like that anymore, the game is still alive and well but the official forums are dead, prohibiting any discussion at all of certain topics only encourages people to keep going elsewhere to discuss this game that we love.
You can take issue as much as you want, but it doesn't change things. From time to time there are certain things that are simply not going to happen no matter how much we may dislike it for one reason or another. This could be a legal reason, technical reason, or both. Sometimes in game development you have to make certain decisions that lead to certain things being pretty much locked in stone. There's plenty of things they would love to do or go back and add, but simply aren't able to do so sometimes without completely rebuilding entire swaths of the game, or rebuilding the game entirely. I know folks don't want to hear it, but sometimes certain things just are not possible in the framework of the game we have now.
I disagree that discussion is pointless just because it's not going to happen, talking about things is fun provided people are being civil and understand that the things they are speculating about will never happen. And the forums are effectively dead now anyway, so I don't see how things could actually get cluttered these days. At any one time there's only a handful of threads that people are actually talking in, with only a handful of people talking.
Back when the FCT was first created it was a different story, there were a LOT more people and there would sometimes be several threads discussing the same thing that the devs had said no to (such as a T6 Connie, which I think was one of the main reasons the FCT was created in the first place). The forums aren't like that anymore, the game is still alive and well but the official forums are dead, prohibiting any discussion at all of certain topics only encourages people to keep going elsewhere to discuss this game that we love.
As I said above, sometimes certain things just are not possible without completely rebuilding entire swaths of the game, or rebuilding the game itself entirely. Some things just are not possible within the framework we have now. 40+ additional threads are not going to change this fact. There's no point in beating a dead horse over and over again. If you think the forum can't get cluttered even with the "little" traffic you think we have now, check the bug reporting subsections sometimes. Plenty of times we've had to merge threads in there due to clutter.
The bits about the t6 Constitution were never added to FCT for a number of reasons. Most of those threads were kept respectful and civil for one. Second, Cryptic had long been pushing for the ability to give us an end game Constitution behind the scenes for a LONG time before we actually got one. They just needed a plausible story explanation of how to do it in game, as well as the go ahead from CBS. So you can argue they always wanted to give us one, they just needed a way to do so that made sense within the framework provided by CBS. Considering what it takes to acquire some of the Constitutions in game, you're not required to like what you have to do to acquire said ship, but Cryptic still has to go by what CBS says and the framework they lay out.
FCT list exists for a number of reasons. One to serve as a sort of frequently asked questions list, and to root out problematic posts before they crop up. If I ask them about why we don't have proper day/night cycles on certain planets and they give an answer as they did in post 13 of the FCT list, there's no need to keep asking that same question over and over and over and over again when the answer is going to be the same every time. If I have to wade through 30 different copies of the same thread asking the same question, that will get the same answer just to find new threads, one I'm not going to want to stick around very much, and two I'm going to miss new threads and potentially miss people who may need help.
Certain threads are also prohibited because 99% of the time they devolve into full on nuclear warfare due to the nature of what they are. Personally I don't want to have to wade through a zillion posts of 2 people bickering back and forth in a circular argument forever and a day just to get to the one post that's actually constructive. I don't want to see that stuff and no one else does either.
If you want to discuss certain things related to the FCT list you're certainly free to take it to PMs with different users or discuss on a different forum. Certain things are on the FCT list for very good reasons.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
sometimes certain things just are not possible without completely rebuilding entire swaths of the game, or rebuilding the game itself entirely. Some things just are not possible within the framework we have now.
I fully understand that, my point was simply that sometimes it is just fun to talk with other players about these things anyway, even when everyone involved in the conversation is aware that they will never actually happen. This is a topic I've been frustrated with for a VERY long time, but never mentioned anywhere because discussion of moderation is (understandably) not allowed. Since this thread was here though I figured I'd voice those frustrations, I didn't intend to have a lengthy debate about it. The last thing I'd like to say about this is that these forums are the only official game forums I've ever been on that have a lengthy list of banned topics, even cesspools of toxicity like the WoW forums don't have that.
What's actually kind of funny is when the FCT was first made I liked the idea, because at that time the forums were very busy and the same topics would get made 3-5 times a week, it's amazing how an opinion can change over time.
The bits about the t6 Constitution were never added to FCT for a number of reasons. Most of those threads were kept respectful and civil for one.
I remember that very differently, from what I remember the T6 Connie was on the FCT, and topics about it were consistently closed, but it was removed from the list when it actually happened (can't remember if it was removed with the JJPrise release, or the TOS Connie release).
Whatever it's claimed intent, one of the effects it has is to prevent cordial interactions. This has happened quite recently
Now, let's have a little fun in the vein of good old Captain James T. Kirk versus every machine, robot, android, and super computer in the known galaxy.
Forum moderation is gatekeeping. What do the rules require you to do?
(200 Quatloos says that obvious levity will be taken as a personal attack by someone.)
why is showing basic respect and decorum a pipe dream?
Respect has to be earned and it also easily lost. Most people here are quite cordial and civil the overwhelming majority of the time. When civility does not work, why would anyone continue to call for respect and decorum when none is afforded to them?
"Respect is not given, it is earned based on personal performance."
-George Carlin
I've often noted that Disrespect is also earned.
Indeed, to intentionally ignore ones concerns is an act of disrespect.
To intentionally misrepresent what someone is saying is an act of disrespect.
The use of flowery language and hyperloquacity does not make a position any less obscene.
I find people who use that kinda "rspect must be earned!" additude when people call for civil manners are generally not worth engaging with. apparently neaither does cryptic
I find people who use that kinda "rspect must be earned!" additude when people call for civil manners are generally not worth engaging with. apparently neaither does cryptic
Why have you completely ignored the parts of the equation in which respect is easily lost, disrespect is earned, and the use of civility as a starting point has failed?
A wise(?) man once wrote, "To intentionally misrepresent what someone is saying is an act of disrespect."
I bet 30 Quatloos you can do better than hiding behind civility to be rude and prejudicial.
Ok, folks, let's tone it down and refrain from accusatory remarks towards/about others. Thank you.
As for the FCT, there is a provision that allows for a topic to be reopened for discussion. The Community Team will consider those requests when submitted.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Forum moderation is gatekeeping. What do the rules require you to do?
To be clear, there is a difference between enforcing forum rules as set by the owners of said forum, and going out of one's way to attack others for not believing as they do based on personal bias.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Comments
and yet, that's where the devs hang out... just sayin
thanks for reminding me. I need to buy ginger ale for my "rumulan ale" cocktail for the 4th party
Don't ever use the app btw, it turns the whole thing into that puzzle box from Hellraiser with similar results if you solve it.
Too bad one simply can't shatter those hook chains and free one's self by screaming and powering up like a Super Saiyan.
Seems like a lot of problems that are presented in various horror movies could be solved by just going Super Saiyan, lol.
Ok, I didn't mean to derail the conversation; back to the topic:
People, just behave and mind yourselves. Remember, we're all guests in this house, and it's "their" rules.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
I now believe that someone wants to maintain the divide.
I'll stick to offering praise and constructive criticism. Worked fine for me so far.
Whilst Dev response is rare, I do get some feedback on occasion, however, I prefer leaving them to their own devices. Kael can, on occasion, respond, but I don't expect him to respond promptly and, his 'snaffoo's' aside, he isn't as bad, nor as insulting as some have made him out to be. He has a very dry sense of humour. As in one case I've seen and watched on the livestream, how is he expected to know someone has an ailment that means the 'offended' person has to type in capitals (on FB) but that person then strangely types in lower case in the forums!? Some folk seem to me just to be making excuses, trying to get rid.
As for the forums, I have only ever taken issue with something a moderator said once, and I addressed it in a civil manner. It gets the 'best' response for both. If I haven't received a response to a bug or issue, I just get on with it; I'm extremely patient. There's far worse things to be upset about than throwing pitchforks and fireballs about a bug. Persist, persist, persist.....but be civil about it.
1) The entire concept of the FCT and it's use to completely shutdown all discussion of a particular topic. Yes, certain things are never going to happen and we've been told as much, but it can still be fun to talk about those things anyway. Imo the FCT should be changed to a simple FAQ thread that we can refer back to as necessary, there aren't exactly a lot of people on the forums these days anyway. This is the primary reason that I prefer the STO Reddit, the toxicity may be a lot higher but over there I can actually talk about almost anything I want as long as it's STO related.
2) The mods are always in a hurry to close question threads instead of letting the discussion die out naturally. As long as everyone is being civil and the OP hasn't asked to close it then what's the harm in letting us continue to talk? Why must it always be quickly slammed shut with a post that says "Answered. /thread"? There have been plenty of threads over the years where I've felt I had something to add, but couldn't because of that.
why is showing basic respect and decorum a pipe dream?
FCT deals with things that already have a definitive answer or are flashpoints that have resulted in mass Moderation action being taken.
This is direct from the FCT thread.
Many of these are pretty much common sense on why we crack down on them, because they always devolve into some kind of negative bash fest, flame war, ect, or otherwise have been pretty much locked in stone by the Devs. The reason it exists is to try and keep the forums from being cluttered with topics like this where, frankly, discussion of said topics is pointless or meant to provoke others.
In the case of #21: Vague or Incomplete Thread Titles, we generally try and give the OP a warning to make the name more clear so that they can have a discussion.
I think we can all agree that we don't want to bash our heads against the wall of subjects that have already been locked in stone, and no one wants to read a flame war.
And to expand on this in case anyone brings up Necromancy... that is to keep things up to date. Resurrecting a thread from 5-6 years ago may not reflect the state of the game today. That is why we deal with Zombie threads. Because the information is out of date. Who is going to know about X from 10 years ago starting out today? Sometimes we do make exceptions to the Necromancy rule, the most prominent was involving the Red Angel Suit after its initial release. But we still want everyone to be aware of when the last post was made and try not casting Necromancy.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Back when the FCT was first created it was a different story, there were a LOT more people and there would sometimes be several threads discussing the same thing that the devs had said no to (such as a T6 Connie, which I think was one of the main reasons the FCT was created in the first place). The forums aren't like that anymore, the game is still alive and well but the official forums are dead, prohibiting any discussion at all of certain topics only encourages people to keep going elsewhere to discuss this game that we love.
As I said above, sometimes certain things just are not possible without completely rebuilding entire swaths of the game, or rebuilding the game itself entirely. Some things just are not possible within the framework we have now. 40+ additional threads are not going to change this fact. There's no point in beating a dead horse over and over again. If you think the forum can't get cluttered even with the "little" traffic you think we have now, check the bug reporting subsections sometimes. Plenty of times we've had to merge threads in there due to clutter.
The bits about the t6 Constitution were never added to FCT for a number of reasons. Most of those threads were kept respectful and civil for one. Second, Cryptic had long been pushing for the ability to give us an end game Constitution behind the scenes for a LONG time before we actually got one. They just needed a plausible story explanation of how to do it in game, as well as the go ahead from CBS. So you can argue they always wanted to give us one, they just needed a way to do so that made sense within the framework provided by CBS. Considering what it takes to acquire some of the Constitutions in game, you're not required to like what you have to do to acquire said ship, but Cryptic still has to go by what CBS says and the framework they lay out.
FCT list exists for a number of reasons. One to serve as a sort of frequently asked questions list, and to root out problematic posts before they crop up. If I ask them about why we don't have proper day/night cycles on certain planets and they give an answer as they did in post 13 of the FCT list, there's no need to keep asking that same question over and over and over and over again when the answer is going to be the same every time. If I have to wade through 30 different copies of the same thread asking the same question, that will get the same answer just to find new threads, one I'm not going to want to stick around very much, and two I'm going to miss new threads and potentially miss people who may need help.
Certain threads are also prohibited because 99% of the time they devolve into full on nuclear warfare due to the nature of what they are. Personally I don't want to have to wade through a zillion posts of 2 people bickering back and forth in a circular argument forever and a day just to get to the one post that's actually constructive. I don't want to see that stuff and no one else does either.
If you want to discuss certain things related to the FCT list you're certainly free to take it to PMs with different users or discuss on a different forum. Certain things are on the FCT list for very good reasons.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
What's actually kind of funny is when the FCT was first made I liked the idea, because at that time the forums were very busy and the same topics would get made 3-5 times a week, it's amazing how an opinion can change over time. I remember that very differently, from what I remember the T6 Connie was on the FCT, and topics about it were consistently closed, but it was removed from the list when it actually happened (can't remember if it was removed with the JJPrise release, or the TOS Connie release).
Whatever it's claimed intent, one of the effects it has is to prevent cordial interactions. This has happened quite recently
Now, let's have a little fun in the vein of good old Captain James T. Kirk versus every machine, robot, android, and super computer in the known galaxy.
Forum moderation is gatekeeping. What do the rules require you to do?
(200 Quatloos says that obvious levity will be taken as a personal attack by someone.)
"Respect is not given, it is earned based on personal performance."
-George Carlin
I've often noted that Disrespect is also earned.
Indeed, to intentionally ignore ones concerns is an act of disrespect.
To intentionally misrepresent what someone is saying is an act of disrespect.
The use of flowery language and hyperloquacity does not make a position any less obscene.
Why have you completely ignored the parts of the equation in which respect is easily lost, disrespect is earned, and the use of civility as a starting point has failed?
A wise(?) man once wrote, "To intentionally misrepresent what someone is saying is an act of disrespect."
I bet 30 Quatloos you can do better than hiding behind civility to be rude and prejudicial.
As for the FCT, there is a provision that allows for a topic to be reopened for discussion. The Community Team will consider those requests when submitted.
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
Facebook / Twitter / Twitch
To be clear, there is a difference between enforcing forum rules as set by the owners of said forum, and going out of one's way to attack others for not believing as they do based on personal bias.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode