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How to communicate on the forum without getting moderated?

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    baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,521 Community Moderator
    Ruthless, now pesky? 🤨
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    Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
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    nuketfnuketf Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    It's quite simple.

    Keep it snarky and passive-aggressive, but not active-aggressive straying into rant.

    Valoreah there is a top example of how to gripe and complain properly without those pesky mods unleashing their +3 Swords of Deletion.

    Beleve me, the mods here are much better then the reddit ones


    https://old.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/pexh7c/why_rsto_was_private_on_aug_30_or_how_dare_you/
    AKA, Beard of borg. Owner of the title "Should have left"
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    rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,195 Community Moderator
    I don't even know how to navigate Reddit honestly, and I've heard horror stories about it.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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    mirrorterranmirrorterran Member Posts: 423 Arc User
    nuketf wrote: »
    It's quite simple.

    Keep it snarky and passive-aggressive, but not active-aggressive straying into rant.

    Valoreah there is a top example of how to gripe and complain properly without those pesky mods unleashing their +3 Swords of Deletion.

    Beleve me, the mods here are much better then the reddit ones


    https://old.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/pexh7c/why_rsto_was_private_on_aug_30_or_how_dare_you/

    If you are using that link to make r/sto look bad you just failed spectacularly.
  • Options
    nuketfnuketf Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited July 2022
    nuketf wrote: »
    It's quite simple.

    Keep it snarky and passive-aggressive, but not active-aggressive straying into rant.

    Valoreah there is a top example of how to gripe and complain properly without those pesky mods unleashing their +3 Swords of Deletion.

    Beleve me, the mods here are much better then the reddit ones


    https://old.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/pexh7c/why_rsto_was_private_on_aug_30_or_how_dare_you/

    If you are using that link to make r/sto look bad you just failed spectacularly.


    So you think the mods calling there self dictators are making them look good?

    Edit: Also look at the tone they are talking, they littlery are saying "If you don't like it, deal with it or be banned"
    AKA, Beard of borg. Owner of the title "Should have left"
  • Options
    mirrorterranmirrorterran Member Posts: 423 Arc User
    nuketf wrote: »
    nuketf wrote: »
    It's quite simple.

    Keep it snarky and passive-aggressive, but not active-aggressive straying into rant.

    Valoreah there is a top example of how to gripe and complain properly without those pesky mods unleashing their +3 Swords of Deletion.

    Beleve me, the mods here are much better then the reddit ones


    https://old.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/pexh7c/why_rsto_was_private_on_aug_30_or_how_dare_you/

    If you are using that link to make r/sto look bad you just failed spectacularly.


    So you think the mods calling there self dictators are making them look good?

    Edit: Also look at the tone they are talking, they littlery are saying "If you don't like it, deal with it or be banned"

    One of my biggest involvements with the STO community was regarding a situation very similar to this in which I sided with the forum users. However, in this case the cause is more than justified for a 24 hour shutdown. People losing their lives over online idiocy is vastly more important than your star trek forum.
  • Options
    roninwolf1981#2968 roninwolf1981 Member Posts: 589 Arc User
    edited July 2022
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I don't even know how to navigate Reddit honestly, and I've heard horror stories about it.

    I was once (temporarily) banned from the /foreveralone reddit because I caught some anti-mexican sentiment on their discord, and I called it out on the subreddit. And of course, one of the mods decides to temporarily ban me from the subreddit under the pretense of "obvious banter is obvious."
    (context: I'm Mexican-American myself)

    But back to the topic of this thread, I just don't see why it's so difficult for others to just be civil when it comes to conversations either with other forum members or with moderators. Is it simply impossible to have a conversation without actively insulting them? I've seen threads from some venomous people in the years I've been alive that simply cannot stop themselves from insulting others, and this is just them running on idle and not on an active warpath.
  • Options
    orangenee#2931 orangenee Member Posts: 837 Arc User
    nuketf wrote: »
    It's quite simple.

    Keep it snarky and passive-aggressive, but not active-aggressive straying into rant.

    Valoreah there is a top example of how to gripe and complain properly without those pesky mods unleashing their +3 Swords of Deletion.

    Beleve me, the mods here are much better then the reddit ones


    https://old.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/pexh7c/why_rsto_was_private_on_aug_30_or_how_dare_you/

    I know all about the reddit mods, trust me. One slightly off the cuff remark and it's permaban town.

    Oh and yes BMR, because you lack ruth, you have become pesky.
  • Options
    ambassadorkael#6946 ambassadorkael Member, Administrator Posts: 2,677 Community Manager
    edited July 2022
    Hello! I should have responded to this thread a while ago, because it's an easy answer.

    How do I express an issue I have with the game to the developers, without getting moderated?

    The answer is actually pretty simple. We have a pinned thread called "Reminder on how to have a discussion." The issue we currently have on these forums is that many of our members don't know how to give feedback without anger or unnecessary negativity. So let's go through some examples.

    I'll make up an example: Let's say a recent bug popped up.

    Response 1: "I can't believe these idiot lazy devs made something like this. Why on earth are they still allowed to keep their jobs? I could do this with my eyes closed and both hands tied behind my back. DO BETTER YOU MORONS."

    Response 2: "This shows how the developers clearly don't understand their game or their audience. This is a relatively simple thing to do correctly. I know they've explained before the technical difficulties and problems with fixing an issue like this, but that's clearly not true. They're just spinning it so they don't have to fix it."

    Response 3: "Ok, this sucks. I was going to run the event today, and I can't now. I'm frustrated. Cryptic, I would really appreciate it if you could fix this fast."

    None of those three responses are sunshine and rainbows, Cryptic is the best, nothing is wrong. But only one of them, option 3, makes a request without denigrating anyone, throwing blame around unnecessarily, calling Cryptic's official response a house of lies, or calling for anyone's job or head. It's ok to be frustrated when we TRIBBLE up. It's not ok to attack people, either your fellow forum goers or the people who work on this game. Focus on "I" statements, and you'll get a lot farther.

    I know, when I post stuff like this, a lot of people see it as "condescending." But I do have to explain this stuff and try to help ya'll. I saw some posts further up the thread about how Cryptic used to have "adult men" developers or whatever - let me tell you, a lot of those people are still here. I still talk to them. There are people on the team that have been here since Beta. And maybe they did used to engage, but one by one they got tired of being treated like TRIBBLE, or not being listened to, of being shouted at. Some of them still try to engage, sometimes, but usually not here, because they all are human beings who don't want to spend their time getting insulted. They used to go to Reddit instead, but that place has gotten MUCH worse in the last few years so I think you'll mostly find them on Twitter now. Why? Because they can block people who can't control themselves.

    I want to get the devs back in here with ya'll. But I can't do it until we have a serious Come to Sarek moment and learn to be better. There's two ways to do that. Option A is we all do a little soul searching and start to be kinder. Option B is we ban everybody who can't. I *really* don't want to do Option B, but I will.
  • Options
    baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,521 Community Moderator
    I would like to apologize to chive and the rest of the forum here for some hasty words I posted in a moment of frustration. As I've stated in this very thread before, I'm only human, too, and just as susceptible to the same spectrum of emotional upheaval as anyone. You all deserve better from me. I will do better.
    GrWzQke.png
    Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
    Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
    Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
    ----> Contact Customer Support <----
    Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
    Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
    Want the latest information on Star Trek Online?
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    fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 4,935 Arc User
    edited July 2022
    Ignore options aren't a great idea, in my opinion.

    People shouldn't just read the things they already agree with. It doesn't promote healthy debate, it only reinforces group thinking. See, indeed, Twitter - which isn't so much a social medium or forum anymore, but a collection of echo rooms.
    This will all likely lead to even less understanding of why things sometimes are the way they are.


    And there are some other possible negative side effects too. Non-native speakers (like myself) might find they're ignored more often because their posts might seem gibberish or too messy to Americans and other people who've spoken the language all their life.
    Threads would quickly become a big mess and hard to understand because you'd have cases where person B is responding to A and then C has no idea why B is saying that because he has blocked A.

    Or imagine a situation where person X shares useful information. X finds Y annoying. Will Y still be able to read X's useful information? If so, he will also need to know that any questions or remarks won't and can't be answered by X. Others then have to step in and begin talking about what X said, without X necessarily approving and having little choice but to block those others as well. If Y won't be able to read what X wrote because X blocked Y, that means you can block someone and then start talking behind their backs about them.

    None of this is really beneficial and things would quickly become complicated.
    There are some serious practical downsides to it, on top of the whole blocking mechanism being very detrimental to open communication and meaningful exchange of thoughts and ideas.


    Blocking people is basically a way to tell people to shut up. Many people telling others to shut up isn't a great way to maintain a community. It's probably even worse than having a few moderators - who follow clear rules and discuss amongst each other - sometimes having to step in and remove a number of comments or close a thread.

    Also because those moderators can filter out things like cursing, rants or personal attacks against others; unlike when on Twitter, we basically shouldn't need a block option if:
    - they continue doing their 'job' in such clear cases of rude behaviour
    - and if the rest of us remain prepared to hear other opinions than our own.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.

    [6/12 9:59][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 24097 (13711) Physical Damage(Critical) to Elite Tactical Drone
  • Options
    nuketfnuketf Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    nuketf wrote: »
    nuketf wrote: »
    It's quite simple.

    Keep it snarky and passive-aggressive, but not active-aggressive straying into rant.

    Valoreah there is a top example of how to gripe and complain properly without those pesky mods unleashing their +3 Swords of Deletion.

    Beleve me, the mods here are much better then the reddit ones


    https://old.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/pexh7c/why_rsto_was_private_on_aug_30_or_how_dare_you/

    If you are using that link to make r/sto look bad you just failed spectacularly.


    So you think the mods calling there self dictators are making them look good?

    Edit: Also look at the tone they are talking, they littlery are saying "If you don't like it, deal with it or be banned"

    One of my biggest involvements with the STO community was regarding a situation very similar to this in which I sided with the forum users. However, in this case the cause is more than justified for a 24 hour shutdown. People losing their lives over online idiocy is vastly more important than your star trek forum.


    You do realise that 90% of the reddit users were upset with this, due to how it was done, correct? I was one of the users that was upset, so the mods banned me. Just read the comments, and you can see 90% of them is how annoyed they are with how there was NO communcation.
    AKA, Beard of borg. Owner of the title "Should have left"
  • Options
    ambassadorkael#6946 ambassadorkael Member, Administrator Posts: 2,677 Community Manager
    The only problem I can see with an ignore function is a base function of how these forums work. Whenever someone posts in a thread, it shoots to the top of the forum. So even if someone is ignored by certain people, they can keep screaming into the void for attention.

    That functionality is actually something that makes the forums function less well than Reddit. While the upvote system has a lot of issues, what happens here is two people can get into a fight, and it'll keep bumping the thread to the top, making it seem super important. It's one of the things that contributes to toxicity here, because it rewards flame wars. We tried up and down votes for a while, but the community didn't like it, so I'm open to other suggestions.
  • Options
    fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 4,935 Arc User
    edited July 2022
    The only problem I can see with an ignore function is a base function of how these forums work. Whenever someone posts in a thread, it shoots to the top of the forum. So even if someone is ignored by certain people, they can keep screaming into the void for attention.

    That functionality is actually something that makes the forums function less well than Reddit. While the upvote system has a lot of issues, what happens here is two people can get into a fight, and it'll keep bumping the thread to the top, making it seem super important. It's one of the things that contributes to toxicity here, because it rewards flame wars. We tried up and down votes for a while, but the community didn't like it, so I'm open to other suggestions.

    Well, what about simply ordering them by thread creation date and time?

    Threads with new posts are already marked as having them if you've opened the thread before, so it shouldn't be a problem for people to keep track of the older threads they're interested in.

    Or maybe have the three or five - or however many you'd like - most active threads appear at the top. With activity being determined either in terms of number of different people responding, or the number of new posts. If that's technically feasible.

    Then one single thread with two people fighting won't overshadow all other threads with actual on-topic discussions going on.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.

    [6/12 9:59][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 24097 (13711) Physical Damage(Critical) to Elite Tactical Drone
  • Options
    mirrorterranmirrorterran Member Posts: 423 Arc User
    nuketf wrote: »
    nuketf wrote: »
    nuketf wrote: »
    It's quite simple.

    Keep it snarky and passive-aggressive, but not active-aggressive straying into rant.

    Valoreah there is a top example of how to gripe and complain properly without those pesky mods unleashing their +3 Swords of Deletion.

    Beleve me, the mods here are much better then the reddit ones


    https://old.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/pexh7c/why_rsto_was_private_on_aug_30_or_how_dare_you/

    If you are using that link to make r/sto look bad you just failed spectacularly.


    So you think the mods calling there self dictators are making them look good?

    Edit: Also look at the tone they are talking, they littlery are saying "If you don't like it, deal with it or be banned"

    One of my biggest involvements with the STO community was regarding a situation very similar to this in which I sided with the forum users. However, in this case the cause is more than justified for a 24 hour shutdown. People losing their lives over online idiocy is vastly more important than your star trek forum.


    You do realise that 90% of the reddit users were upset with this, due to how it was done, correct? I was one of the users that was upset, so the mods banned me. Just read the comments, and you can see 90% of them is how annoyed they are with how there was NO communcation.

    I think you mean 90% of the reddit users who were upset by this posted a complaint. I guarantee you the majority of the users of r/sto weren't even aware a 24 hour shutdown occurred.
  • Options
    nuketfnuketf Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    nuketf wrote: »
    nuketf wrote: »
    nuketf wrote: »
    It's quite simple.

    Keep it snarky and passive-aggressive, but not active-aggressive straying into rant.

    Valoreah there is a top example of how to gripe and complain properly without those pesky mods unleashing their +3 Swords of Deletion.

    Beleve me, the mods here are much better then the reddit ones


    https://old.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/pexh7c/why_rsto_was_private_on_aug_30_or_how_dare_you/

    If you are using that link to make r/sto look bad you just failed spectacularly.


    So you think the mods calling there self dictators are making them look good?

    Edit: Also look at the tone they are talking, they littlery are saying "If you don't like it, deal with it or be banned"

    One of my biggest involvements with the STO community was regarding a situation very similar to this in which I sided with the forum users. However, in this case the cause is more than justified for a 24 hour shutdown. People losing their lives over online idiocy is vastly more important than your star trek forum.


    You do realise that 90% of the reddit users were upset with this, due to how it was done, correct? I was one of the users that was upset, so the mods banned me. Just read the comments, and you can see 90% of them is how annoyed they are with how there was NO communcation.

    I think you mean 90% of the reddit users who were upset by this posted a complaint. I guarantee you the majority of the users of r/sto weren't even aware a 24 hour shutdown occurred.

    My point still stands where the mods are "My way, or your banned"
    AKA, Beard of borg. Owner of the title "Should have left"
  • Options
    orangenee#2931 orangenee Member Posts: 837 Arc User
    I would like to apologize to chive and the rest of the forum here for some hasty words I posted in a moment of frustration. As I've stated in this very thread before, I'm only human, too, and just as susceptible to the same spectrum of emotional upheaval as anyone. You all deserve better from me. I will do better.

    and as such, my apologies are sent out as well. we all have moments. :)

    now who wants a beer?

    or some rommy ale. some cellmates were able to get some. (you would be amazed at the stuff you can get while inside)

    I have a crate of Romulan Ale from completely trustworthy sources. In no way did it fall off the back of a trade freighter with my help.
  • Options
    theboxisredtheboxisred Member Posts: 466 Arc User
    edited July 2022
    Here's another chilling effect that's related to this discussion.

    I just commented on another thread about a bug. In my comment I had explained why the bug in question prevented me from live streaming the game.

    Then, to prevent any misinterpretation of my intent, I began writing disclaimers related to the comment I was about to submit. By the end there were four (4) disclaimers in total and they wound up being longer than my initial reply. At that point I realized that my disclaimers, though intended to head off any misunderstandings, would only serve to hijack the thread in question which would itself be a violation of the rules.

    In the end I 'self-moderated' my comment down to, "I wish I knew," with a parenthetical akin to, "(This post was originally longer.)"

    Now I'm that much more angry and that much more frustrated with this Status Quo.

    I guess all I can do is go frown at a kitten and fill a nun with self-doubt about whether or not she is in the correct monastery.

    Edited for clarity by removing typos and assorted gibberish.
This discussion has been closed.