And after how she was treated during her time on DS9, I don't see Terry Farrell ever reprising her role again. Whoever it was who played Ezri would be more likely to do so.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,689Community Moderator
And after how she was treated during her time on DS9, I don't see Terry Farrell ever reprising her role again. Whoever it was who played Ezri would be more likely to do so.
Nicole de Boer.
And Ezri suffered from only having one season of development because of all that. Nicole did an amazing job despite that, and she deserves a chance to come back as Ezri in some form. I mean we got Picard and Lower Decks so far that could bring her back. Hell... she was hinted a few times in STO itself in game, and actually made an appearance in a story blog after we found K-13.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Yes,he's alive, he's the reason why Saru left to visit his homeworld, he's trying to reintegrate the kid back into Kelpian culture, but let's be honest here that kid will never be accepted by his society simply because he was born a freak, because as someone with autism and ADHD I know what's it like to be born different from everyone else, that brand is stuck with you until the day you die, the divorced parents, growing up in the foster care system and my mixed heritage didn't really help matters much either, the point is that Kid is a freak of nature that won't be accepted by his people, at best he'll be tolerated and at worse he'll be branded as an outcast, there's also his body count to consider so he might even be put on trail for his crimes.
Actually, according to an instagram log post by the star trek account, Doug Jones (as Saru) mentions that Su'kal is being accepted by the other Kelpians.
The most MASSIVE trick missed by Disco, was that Symbiote not being Dax. It would have really brought the series into the rest of the franchise, given you the opportunity of character development, with Jadzia and Ezri's memories in there...with Terry now being Mrs Roddenbery, I bet she'd have even cameo'd.
While it would have been nice to see Dax again... therein lies the problem. It could also turn into another "shoehorn" debate like with Burnham's connection to Spock. "Oh they only did it because NAMEDROP" and all that.
And before anyone goes off on that tangent, need I remind everyone that Spock was QUITE private about his family throughout the entire series. Kirk, his best friend, never knew Ambassador Sarek was Spock's father until HE MET THE MAN ON THE ENTERPRISE DURING A DIPLOMATIC EVENT! And then we come to the next part. Sybok. Kirk never knew Spock had siblings of ANY kind until they ran into Sybok on Nimbus III. And on top of that, Spock can be QUITE literal in his wording. He quite literally said he didn't have a BROTHER. He had a HALF-Brother. Spock could very well say that he never had a sister, but a FOSTER sister. Therefor him saying he never had a brother or sister is still correct as they aren't full blood siblings.
So again... yea would have been nice to see Dax, but it could have been taken the wrong way. There's still a chance we will see Dax in the future, but perhaps it was for the best that we have Tal.
Also they wouldn't be able to just get away with Jadzia in that cameo. They'd need Ezri as well.
Oh, I don't think it would have been shoehorned. She would just have been the next and new host, separate in their own right, but still Dax. I was really surprised at how few hosts that symbiote had had. If it really had been Dax, then it would have been hundreds, with Jadzia and Ezri just being two of them. It would have terrific to have that connection.
The whole Spock thing was forced, but a Trill...that would have made natural sense, with automatic history to the character, aspects to draw on, DEPTH, which I personally feel every character in Disco is starved on. When there's no character development, no one cares if the character lives or dies.
And after how she was treated during her time on DS9, I don't see Terry Farrell ever reprising her role again. Whoever it was who played Ezri would be more likely to do so.
Well, I feel bad for Terry. She left because she thought the grass was greener on "Becker", but THEY treated her worse. They wrote her out without a second thought and then there was no way back to DS9. I'd heard talk of her appearing in the films, if she had still been alive and as Worf's wife, so that was automatically taken away from her.
I still wish though that Ezri had been a male host. It would have given some fantastic originality for Worf to consider him to be his life. Nicole didn't really stand a chance, but I know they would never have just kept the DS9 cast with one female character, aka Kira.
And after how she was treated during her time on DS9, I don't see Terry Farrell ever reprising her role again. Whoever it was who played Ezri would be more likely to do so.
Well, I feel bad for Terry. She left because she thought the grass was greener on "Becker", but THEY treated her worse. They wrote her out without a second thought and then there was no way back to DS9. I'd heard talk of her appearing in the films, if she had still been alive and as Worf's wife, so that was automatically taken away from her.
I still wish though that Ezri had been a male host. It would have given some fantastic originality for Worf to consider him to be his life. Nicole didn't really stand a chance, but I know they would never have just kept the DS9 cast with one female character, aka Kira.
Well, going by what little she publically talked about, she experienced quite some sexism and mysogony on the DS9 set, mostly due to Berman (stuff like talking about "insufficient" breast size and so on). She wasn't respected as actor as much as some fellow cast members. She didn't actually want to leave, she wanted to reduce her hours/episodes so she could pursue other projects besides DS9, a deal that had been available to Colm Meany. But Berman didn't want to budge and was certain she was bluffing on leaving, because he appearently believed she was expendable.
In the end, one more season of DS9 vs one season of another show doesn't seem horrible for your career or income. And considering that basically no original character from DS9 got really time in the movies, it seems she didn't really lose out anything, though she couldn't know it at the time.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
And after how she was treated during her time on DS9, I don't see Terry Farrell ever reprising her role again. Whoever it was who played Ezri would be more likely to do so.
Well, I feel bad for Terry. She left because she thought the grass was greener on "Becker", but THEY treated her worse. They wrote her out without a second thought and then there was no way back to DS9. I'd heard talk of her appearing in the films, if she had still been alive and as Worf's wife, so that was automatically taken away from her.
I still wish though that Ezri had been a male host. It would have given some fantastic originality for Worf to consider him to be his life. Nicole didn't really stand a chance, but I know they would never have just kept the DS9 cast with one female character, aka Kira.
Well, going by what little she publically talked about, she experienced quite some sexism and mysogony on the DS9 set, mostly due to Berman (stuff like talking about "insufficient" breast size and so on). She wasn't respected as actor as much as some fellow cast members. She didn't actually want to leave, she wanted to reduce her hours/episodes so she could pursue other projects besides DS9, a deal that had been available to Colm Meany. But Berman didn't want to budge and was certain she was bluffing on leaving, because he appearently believed she was expendable.
In the end, one more season of DS9 vs one season of another show doesn't seem horrible for your career or income. And considering that basically no original character from DS9 got really time in the movies, it seems she didn't really lose out anything, though she couldn't know it at the time.
They both deserved better DS9 was great show but their characters were the least explored. Jadzia dax is one of the best females of trek, the shows are worse for rick berman unprofessional behavior.
Yeah, I did hear that Berman was a misogynist. He also singlehandedly blocked any TRIBBLE characters. There was talk of Seven being a TRIBBLE back in the day, but I think maybe Rick's ego couldn't take a women not wanting to be with a man (aka him) and was homophobic about two guys being together.
Seven being TRIBBLE, Dax's next host being a man...obviously Bashir and Garak ;-)
The worst part is, that an Omega detonation would have achieved a similar effect without introducing something crazy.
ST-D has just taken things to levels where my immersion and belief is ruined.
The whole Mycelial network connected across all universes where if a single universe does something shady it could kill all realities... That is utterly just...No!
Then you have this kid interfacing with some dilithium and making all dilithium in the entire galaxy explode. From the alpha quadrant to the delta quadrant...Again, just no.
Stop introducing things that can destroy the entire playing field arbitrarily. What if some kid in the Delta quadrant has a similar experience...will we have a Burn 2.0?
What if one of the mirror universes succeeds with their Charon project? Our universe will randomly die alongside the mycelial network and the multiverse then? And what of the sentient races in the network like Elachi? Are they all linked too?
They just keep adding contrived TRIBBLE. I didn't mind the Kelvin stuff because for the most part it left the canon universe alone, AND they also kickstarted the New Romulus and Iconian stories which remain my favorite to this day.
But ST-D has just been bad decision after bad decision when it comes to the bigger canon, and seeing this stuff keep getting added to STO has damaged my immersion in the game. At least the writing quality for the STO stuff here has been better than what's on TV, but it doesn't undo the wider damage that STO has done with the mycelial network and the burn.
(The forum ate my original post so here I try again but it probably won't be as good as the original.)
What I really dislike about Disc is all the arbitrary large scale threats which utterly ruin my suspension of disbelief. You could have used the Omega molecule for the Burn, but instead you decided to have some random kid form a symbiosis with the Dilithium and render it inert galaxy wide. That's BAD writing, and similar events could happen again.
What if some kid does this in the Delta Quadrant and the Dilithium goes inert again? Burn 2.0? So imagine a normal episode suddenly the burn happens because some kid elsewhere in the galaxy had a tantrum.
This is even worse with the Mycelial network. Remember in season 1 when the Mirror Universe ran the Charon project? According to Stamets that project would kill the Mycelial network, causing EVERY universe to DIE!
They stopped it of course, but what prevents another mirror universe from repeating the process? The mycelial network and how it links all universes and can be killed by someone is bad. Also what about the species living there like the Elachi or those flying fungi creatures? Are they also linked to all universes?
The Kelvin stuff was much easier to stomach as it was generally outside of prime canon with the exception of the destruction of Romulus...which I didn't mind too much because it led to the Iconian and new Romulus storylines here.
But Picard and Disc have severely damaged the universe for me as they're meant to be prime. The Disc stuff in STO have admittedly been written much better than what was on the show, but in the end it still validates the concept from it like the Mycelial network (I'm also not a fan of the Elachi coming from there tbh, I preferred when they were an Iconian servitor race from deep space)
Yeah, the whole 'if the Mycelial Network dies in one universe, it dies in ALL universes' thing smacks too much of the Reality Bomb from Doctor Who...sure, they stopped it in one universe, but since a universe for every outcome exists int he multiverse...there has to be one where the Reality Bomb successfully went off and wiped out everything. They never provided an explanation for that either.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
What I really dislike about Disc is all the arbitrary large scale threats which utterly ruin my suspension of disbelief. You could have used the Omega molecule for the Burn, but instead you decided to have some random kid form a symbiosis with the Dilithium and render it inert galaxy wide. That's BAD writing, and similar events could happen again.
What if some kid does this in the Delta Quadrant and the Dilithium goes inert again? Burn 2.0? So imagine a normal episode suddenly the burn happens because some kid elsewhere in the galaxy had a tantrum.
No one else in the galaxy could do this again.
Sukal only got his symbiosis with dilthium not only because he was still in the womb when his mother's ship crashed on a planet that was pretty much made of dilthium, but also because that planet was in the middle on a massively radioactive nebula giving off some pretty rare radiation that mutated him in an incredibly specific way. The statistical probability of anyone else in the galaxy hitting that exact same series of conditions, and living, is pretty much zero. You are far more likely to get a "Charlie X" situation, which is just as bad, then another Sukal.
And if that's bad writing them Star Trek is built off of it. There are so many species in Trek canon from the old shows that could annihilate everyone, or everything, with ease. Why haven't have of them done it? Q could just erase humanity with a wave of the hand, or a snap of the fingers. Douwd similarly just annihilated the Husnok with a thought. The Metrons have been shown to create entire planets in an instant when it amuses them, how powerful would they be if they turned that power toward destruction? This not even getting into lesser beings like the already mentioned "Charlie X", or Gary Mitchell. Who knows what the limits of their powers were if they were given the time to master them.
These sort of things are a near weekly occurrence in Star Trek's setting. Its inevitable one of them wouldn't be stopped by the crew of a show before they actually did something bad.
Yeah, naturally, the conditions needed for another being with Su'Kal's connection to dilithium are insanely unlikely to occur - you'd be far more like to see the creation of one of those theoretical false vacuum wave things that can devour everything in existence than another Su'Kal...I'd be far more worried about someone trying to artificially recreate it on a small scale for use as a weapon.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
What I really dislike about Disc is all the arbitrary large scale threats which utterly ruin my suspension of disbelief. You could have used the Omega molecule for the Burn, but instead you decided to have some random kid form a symbiosis with the Dilithium and render it inert galaxy wide. That's BAD writing, and similar events could happen again.
What if some kid does this in the Delta Quadrant and the Dilithium goes inert again? Burn 2.0? So imagine a normal episode suddenly the burn happens because some kid elsewhere in the galaxy had a tantrum.
No one else in the galaxy could do this again.
Sukal only got his symbiosis with dilthium not only because he was still in the womb when his mother's ship crashed on a planet that was pretty much made of dilthium, but also because that planet was in the middle on a massively radioactive nebula giving off some pretty rare radiation that mutated him in an incredibly specific way. The statistical probability of anyone else in the galaxy hitting that exact same series of conditions, and living, is pretty much zero. You are far more likely to get a "Charlie X" situation, which is just as bad, then another Sukal.
And if that's bad writing them Star Trek is built off of it. There are so many species in Trek canon from the old shows that could annihilate everyone, or everything, with ease. Why haven't have of them done it? Q could just erase humanity with a wave of the hand, or a snap of the fingers. Douwd similarly just annihilated the Husnok with a thought. The Metrons have been shown to create entire planets in an instant when it amuses them, how powerful would they be if they turned that power toward destruction? This not even getting into lesser beings like the already mentioned "Charlie X", or Gary Mitchell. Who knows what the limits of their powers were if they were given the time to master them.
These sort of things are a near weekly occurrence in Star Trek's setting. Its inevitable one of them wouldn't be stopped by the crew of a show before they actually did something bad.
At least a certain Q seems to enjoy Picard's company way too much to wipe out humanity, He could have wiped out humanity as payback simply because Sisko punched him but he didn't for some reason.
You're the one who keeps constantly bringing up subtlety and nuance as things someone needs to have been fully versed in to 'get' TOS - the same applies for any show, Star Trek or otherwise, and that kind of thing is NOT available through clips, synopses, transcripts or anything other than watching the actual episode...all the way through, and multiple times to pick up the things that were missed on the first few runthroughs.
So no, you CANNOT get a good idea how a show is written on a pure plot level without actually watching the ENTIRE series.
You are confusing apples and oranges. What you cannot tell just from the sources I mentioned are the more subtle and subjective things like the overall feel of the show, details of the lore of the setting, clues as to what was intended, and such. For those things you do need to dig into the nuances to understand them, but not everything does.
In fact, for writers analyzing how the show is written, what tropes they tend to use the most, what the subgenre of the show is, whether it is drama or melodrama, etc., it is often easier to do it at the script/transcript level without the distractions of the cast performance and SFX.
You don't need to watch the show itself if you have access to those other sources just to know that it is firmly in the space opera subgenre (as apposed to all the other Trek series before DSC, which were mainly soft sci-fi), that it uses melodrama rather than the various other drama types from earlier series, and other features (like it being weighted towards the action movie side of space opera than most of the other space opera series up until now).
And no, I am not saying DSC is intrinsically bad because of those categorization differences from the other series, there is nothing wrong with space operas or melodramas per se. I was just pointing out that the assumption that the only way to know anything at all about a series is to watch it is false, there are a lot of things you can pick up about the style of writing and plotting on a show by reading transcripts, watching synopses and analysis by reasonably unbiased people (not by those who run around in pseudo Vader masks and whatnot...), and other secondary sources.
What I really dislike about Disc is all the arbitrary large scale threats which utterly ruin my suspension of disbelief. You could have used the Omega molecule for the Burn, but instead you decided to have some random kid form a symbiosis with the Dilithium and render it inert galaxy wide. That's BAD writing, and similar events could happen again.
What if some kid does this in the Delta Quadrant and the Dilithium goes inert again? Burn 2.0? So imagine a normal episode suddenly the burn happens because some kid elsewhere in the galaxy had a tantrum.
No one else in the galaxy could do this again.
Sukal only got his symbiosis with dilthium not only because he was still in the womb when his mother's ship crashed on a planet that was pretty much made of dilthium, but also because that planet was in the middle on a massively radioactive nebula giving off some pretty rare radiation that mutated him in an incredibly specific way. The statistical probability of anyone else in the galaxy hitting that exact same series of conditions, and living, is pretty much zero. You are far more likely to get a "Charlie X" situation, which is just as bad, then another Sukal.
And if that's bad writing them Star Trek is built off of it. There are so many species in Trek canon from the old shows that could annihilate everyone, or everything, with ease. Why haven't have of them done it? Q could just erase humanity with a wave of the hand, or a snap of the fingers. Douwd similarly just annihilated the Husnok with a thought. The Metrons have been shown to create entire planets in an instant when it amuses them, how powerful would they be if they turned that power toward destruction? This not even getting into lesser beings like the already mentioned "Charlie X", or Gary Mitchell. Who knows what the limits of their powers were if they were given the time to master them.
These sort of things are a near weekly occurrence in Star Trek's setting. Its inevitable one of them wouldn't be stopped by the crew of a show before they actually did something bad.
At least a certain Q seems to enjoy Picard's company way too much to wipe out humanity, He could have wiped out humanity as payback simply because Sisko punched him but he didn't for some reason.
Ooh, Q did not work on DS9. You also have to wonder if he and the Prophets would have clashed. He certainly worked on Voyager, but then John and Kate were friends in real life and I think they had great rapport.
What I really dislike about Disc is all the arbitrary large scale threats which utterly ruin my suspension of disbelief. You could have used the Omega molecule for the Burn, but instead you decided to have some random kid form a symbiosis with the Dilithium and render it inert galaxy wide. That's BAD writing, and similar events could happen again.
What if some kid does this in the Delta Quadrant and the Dilithium goes inert again? Burn 2.0? So imagine a normal episode suddenly the burn happens because some kid elsewhere in the galaxy had a tantrum.
No one else in the galaxy could do this again.
Sukal only got his symbiosis with dilthium not only because he was still in the womb when his mother's ship crashed on a planet that was pretty much made of dilthium, but also because that planet was in the middle on a massively radioactive nebula giving off some pretty rare radiation that mutated him in an incredibly specific way. The statistical probability of anyone else in the galaxy hitting that exact same series of conditions, and living, is pretty much zero. You are far more likely to get a "Charlie X" situation, which is just as bad, then another Sukal.
And if that's bad writing them Star Trek is built off of it. There are so many species in Trek canon from the old shows that could annihilate everyone, or everything, with ease. Why haven't have of them done it? Q could just erase humanity with a wave of the hand, or a snap of the fingers. Douwd similarly just annihilated the Husnok with a thought. The Metrons have been shown to create entire planets in an instant when it amuses them, how powerful would they be if they turned that power toward destruction? This not even getting into lesser beings like the already mentioned "Charlie X", or Gary Mitchell. Who knows what the limits of their powers were if they were given the time to master them.
These sort of things are a near weekly occurrence in Star Trek's setting. Its inevitable one of them wouldn't be stopped by the crew of a show before they actually did something bad.
I think that because apart from Q, who did have "morals" such as they are; all the others appeared in one-time episodes. Whenever a race, creature or being appeared in an episode of Star Trek, it never had to be used again and could safely be ignored. That's the difference between serial and episodic...you can honestly pick and choose what you want to ever use again in an episode, where as your hand is forced to run with a bad idea used in a serial.
It's like Threshold. I'd give anything for that episode not to exist, because it ruins speeds over Warp 10 and was obviously written by someone who didn't know that Warp 13 was no problem. They were never forced to reference it again though, so that's fine. If a Warp 10 barrier had appeared in Disco, then they wouldn't have been able to ignore it.
So, you've had many, many races who could obliterate the quadrant, galaxy, universe and space-time continuum...but the giant space hand hasn't forced the makers of the earlier shows to.
I'll say it again...if Disco was episodic, I honestly don't like the series' premise or its characters, but I might have been able to enjoy the odd episode. If one writer could be charged with an episode, do the best job they could with what they have to work with, instead of having to compensate for a dodgy plot development or something that they really don't want to work with and it shows, maybe Disco could have been redeemed.
(The forum ate my original post so here I try again but it probably won't be as good as the original.)
What I really dislike about Disc is all the arbitrary large scale threats which utterly ruin my suspension of disbelief. You could have used the Omega molecule for the Burn, but instead you decided to have some random kid form a symbiosis with the Dilithium and render it inert galaxy wide. That's BAD writing, and similar events could happen again.
What if some kid does this in the Delta Quadrant and the Dilithium goes inert again? Burn 2.0? So imagine a normal episode suddenly the burn happens because some kid elsewhere in the galaxy had a tantrum.
This is even worse with the Mycelial network. Remember in season 1 when the Mirror Universe ran the Charon project? According to Stamets that project would kill the Mycelial network, causing EVERY universe to DIE!
They stopped it of course, but what prevents another mirror universe from repeating the process? The mycelial network and how it links all universes and can be killed by someone is bad. Also what about the species living there like the Elachi or those flying fungi creatures? Are they also linked to all universes?
The Kelvin stuff was much easier to stomach as it was generally outside of prime canon with the exception of the destruction of Romulus...which I didn't mind too much because it led to the Iconian and new Romulus storylines here.
But Picard and Disc have severely damaged the universe for me as they're meant to be prime. The Disc stuff in STO have admittedly been written much better than what was on the show, but in the end it still validates the concept from it like the Mycelial network (I'm also not a fan of the Elachi coming from there tbh, I preferred when they were an Iconian servitor race from deep space)
I really hope Star trek can heal one day.
I hope so too. I still say that it's incredibly arrogant and unrealistic to believe that absolutely no one else in the entire universe has discovered the Network...seriously, no one?
It's another reason I wish this had been Omega not Spores, because they maybe Discovery could have been charged with making sure no one else ever developed it. Travel across the galaxy, stopping people and keeping the monopoly.
You can't have one race, which let's be honest...humanity is seriously not that advanced. The Cardassians were probably the most scientifically and militaristically advanced race in the Alpha Quadrant, so that humans alone have a Spore Drive?
Especially without warp, others should have made the discovery. Spores Drives, Quantum Slipstream, artificial wormholes, Soliton Waves, transwarp, transwarp corridors, Vaudwaar corridors, (yeesh) "Warp 10", spatial trajectors, coaxial warp, Dominion long-range transporters, JJ's subspace transporters...there are SO many other things that dedicated and desperate races could have developed. Any of those I would have loved to have seen brought into the Discovery, but I still say...knowledge might have been erased or hidden away, but when it came to the crunch, Spore Drives would have been admitted to.
Omega might've made more sense, but it's also useless as a plot point for a temporary problem because Omega's effects are permanent...you can't repair something that no longer exists - Omega explosions destroy subspace within their area-of-effect...not damage, not disrupt, DESTROY.
And Cardassians the more advanced scientifically and militarily? HAHAHA, no...maybe in the 22nd and 23rd centuries, but by the 24th, they were very much behind the Federation by several decades...3 of their mainline WAR cruisers working in tandem were needed to match just ONE of Starfleet's 'exploration' cruisers.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Omega might've made more sense, but it's also useless as a plot point for a temporary problem because Omega's effects are permanent...you can't repair something that no longer exists - Omega explosions destroy subspace within their area-of-effect...not damage, not disrupt, DESTROY.
And Cardassians the more advanced scientifically and militarily? HAHAHA, no...maybe in the 22nd and 23rd centuries, but by the 24th, they were very much behind the Federation by several decades...3 of their mainline WAR cruisers working in tandem were needed to match just ONE of Starfleet's 'exploration' cruisers.
The Cardy's were ingenious. Defence Platform, Dreadnought...they knew what they were doing and I'd have loved to see the Federation's war with them. They went to war with the Cardassians, with Tzenkethi...instead of the Klingons, it would have been great to see a different war going on in Discovery. A new fresh one, where new designed aliens would have been welcomed. It was always changing lore that I think upset people the most. I know, there's justification for it all, but it would have been so easily solved with using any other race. Even though we've seen the Tzenkethi in STO, they could have been made to look any way in Disco...aka, like the reworked Klingons.
I think that because apart from Q, who did have "morals" such as they are; all the others appeared in one-time episodes. Whenever a race, creature or being appeared in an episode of Star Trek, it never had to be used again and could safely be ignored. That's the difference between serial and episodic...you can honestly pick and choose what you want to ever use again in an episode, where as your hand is forced to run with a bad idea used in a serial.
It's like Threshold. I'd give anything for that episode not to exist, because it ruins speeds over Warp 10 and was obviously written by someone who didn't know that Warp 13 was no problem. They were never forced to reference it again though, so that's fine. If a Warp 10 barrier had appeared in Disco, then they wouldn't have been able to ignore it.
So, you've had many, many races who could obliterate the quadrant, galaxy, universe and space-time continuum...but the giant space hand hasn't forced the makers of the earlier shows to.
I'll say it again...if Disco was episodic, I honestly don't like the series' premise or its characters, but I might have been able to enjoy the odd episode. If one writer could be charged with an episode, do the best job they could with what they have to work with, instead of having to compensate for a dodgy plot development or something that they really don't want to work with and it shows, maybe Disco could have been redeemed.
The main issue with Discovery is that the alien characters are better written than the human ones, I think Saru should get a spinoff, I like his character the most out of the main cast, plus aside from the Klingons and Ferengi, the make up department did pretty well with Disco Andorians, Disco Tellarites, Disco Aenar, Kelpians, I also liked that they recycled PIC Romulans, while also keeping the same old Vulcans and I'm glad that at least the Trill and Orions still resemble their old selves.
BTW if we do get 32nd century content, I'm kind of interested to see if the Lukari and Kentari still exist in STO by that time or ended up becoming a new race all together (Lukari + Kentari = ?).
The main issue with Discovery is that the alien characters are better written than the human ones, I think Saru should get a spinoff, I like his character the most out of the main cast, plus aside from the Klingons and Ferengi, the make up department did pretty well with Disco Andorians, Disco Tellarites, Disco Aenar, Kelpians, I also liked that they recycled PIC Romulans, while also keeping the same old Vulcans and I'm glad that at least the Trill and Orions still resemble their old selves.
Saru should just be Discovery's permanent Captain, period. He's easily the best main character.
But every time he got to land on the Captain's chair, some circumstance forces him to give it to someone else a while later.
That's one of the various things I hate with DSC: every time something promising happens, it gets replaced or removed.
-Lorca is revealed to be an imposter and oppose the evil emperor? A good-ish Terran, what's that? Well, nvm, he's actually even worse and let's just kill him off in the next episode.
-The Klingons have won the war and are so close to Earth! Next episode: Na, it's OK, they just took some territory, we can manage and we just happen to have something to make them back off.
-Anson Mount's Pike well-deservedly steals the spotlight? Well, let's go to the future without him.
-Airiam gets some interesting backstory and interactions? BOOM, demo... err, Control possession, dead in the same episode.
-Mirror version of the crew? ISS Discovery is destroyed off-screen. But wait, they show up in S3, so that means we can get to learn a lot more! Just kidding, they almost all die by the next episode, anyway and we don't get to know much about them outside of who is loyal to Georgiou and who isn't.
-Saru as Captain! Yes! Except no. Except yes! Except no.
-Georgiou as the token brutal crewmember who has to adapt in an era where the Terran Empire is long gone or maybe convince the crew to get a bit more pragmatic in a new era. Well, let's do that... for a little while only, because we just remembered she was to be featured in a S31 spin-off, so bye, Georgiou!
-Burnham's mother is still alive due to her last time travel! Such a great opportunity to have some meaningful mother-daughter moments a la Mariner and Freeman........... Yeah, cool, but na, next!
And they really shouldn't have killed off Georgiou so fast either...having her survive the BatBS and end up onboard Discovery for most of the season would've made for some incredible tension between her and Burnham as they slowly reconciled and we also would've gotten to know more about her in the process...and THEN they kill her off.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
And they really shouldn't have killed off Georgiou so fast either...having her survive the BatBS and end up onboard Discovery for most of the season would've made for some incredible tension between her and Burnham as they slowly reconciled and we also would've gotten to know more about her in the process...and THEN they kill her off.
I liked Georgiou. And I liked Mirror Georgiou. Ironically, she was about the only character on Disco I liked. Well, I liked Jason Isaacs too...but that seems like such a long time ago.
I think that because apart from Q, who did have "morals" such as they are; all the others appeared in one-time episodes. Whenever a race, creature or being appeared in an episode of Star Trek, it never had to be used again and could safely be ignored. That's the difference between serial and episodic...you can honestly pick and choose what you want to ever use again in an episode, where as your hand is forced to run with a bad idea used in a serial.
It's like Threshold. I'd give anything for that episode not to exist, because it ruins speeds over Warp 10 and was obviously written by someone who didn't know that Warp 13 was no problem. They were never forced to reference it again though, so that's fine. If a Warp 10 barrier had appeared in Disco, then they wouldn't have been able to ignore it.
So, you've had many, many races who could obliterate the quadrant, galaxy, universe and space-time continuum...but the giant space hand hasn't forced the makers of the earlier shows to.
I'll say it again...if Disco was episodic, I honestly don't like the series' premise or its characters, but I might have been able to enjoy the odd episode. If one writer could be charged with an episode, do the best job they could with what they have to work with, instead of having to compensate for a dodgy plot development or something that they really don't want to work with and it shows, maybe Disco could have been redeemed.
What you describe is, IMO, a point in Discovery's favor over the old shows.
Any series that constantly introduces these sort of galactic extinction level threats, and then only uses them for a one off episode, only to never mention said threats again, is insanely poorly written, and isn't treating its concepts with the importance they deserve. Discovery was the first show to treat these sorts of beings with the level of importance they deserve, and treat the effects they could have on the galaxy with the level of importance they deserve. I wish the older shows treated characters like Douwd like Discovery did with Sukal.
Comments
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Nicole de Boer.
And Ezri suffered from only having one season of development because of all that. Nicole did an amazing job despite that, and she deserves a chance to come back as Ezri in some form. I mean we got Picard and Lower Decks so far that could bring her back. Hell... she was hinted a few times in STO itself in game, and actually made an appearance in a story blog after we found K-13.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Actually, according to an instagram log post by the star trek account, Doug Jones (as Saru) mentions that Su'kal is being accepted by the other Kelpians.
Oh, I don't think it would have been shoehorned. She would just have been the next and new host, separate in their own right, but still Dax. I was really surprised at how few hosts that symbiote had had. If it really had been Dax, then it would have been hundreds, with Jadzia and Ezri just being two of them. It would have terrific to have that connection.
The whole Spock thing was forced, but a Trill...that would have made natural sense, with automatic history to the character, aspects to draw on, DEPTH, which I personally feel every character in Disco is starved on. When there's no character development, no one cares if the character lives or dies.
Well, I feel bad for Terry. She left because she thought the grass was greener on "Becker", but THEY treated her worse. They wrote her out without a second thought and then there was no way back to DS9. I'd heard talk of her appearing in the films, if she had still been alive and as Worf's wife, so that was automatically taken away from her.
I still wish though that Ezri had been a male host. It would have given some fantastic originality for Worf to consider him to be his life. Nicole didn't really stand a chance, but I know they would never have just kept the DS9 cast with one female character, aka Kira.
In the end, one more season of DS9 vs one season of another show doesn't seem horrible for your career or income. And considering that basically no original character from DS9 got really time in the movies, it seems she didn't really lose out anything, though she couldn't know it at the time.
They both deserved better DS9 was great show but their characters were the least explored. Jadzia dax is one of the best females of trek, the shows are worse for rick berman unprofessional behavior.
Old Man Q "Pull my finger.."
Everything else is just a cover up
Seven being TRIBBLE, Dax's next host being a man...obviously Bashir and Garak ;-)
ST-D has just taken things to levels where my immersion and belief is ruined.
The whole Mycelial network connected across all universes where if a single universe does something shady it could kill all realities... That is utterly just...No!
Then you have this kid interfacing with some dilithium and making all dilithium in the entire galaxy explode. From the alpha quadrant to the delta quadrant...Again, just no.
Stop introducing things that can destroy the entire playing field arbitrarily. What if some kid in the Delta quadrant has a similar experience...will we have a Burn 2.0?
What if one of the mirror universes succeeds with their Charon project? Our universe will randomly die alongside the mycelial network and the multiverse then? And what of the sentient races in the network like Elachi? Are they all linked too?
They just keep adding contrived TRIBBLE. I didn't mind the Kelvin stuff because for the most part it left the canon universe alone, AND they also kickstarted the New Romulus and Iconian stories which remain my favorite to this day.
But ST-D has just been bad decision after bad decision when it comes to the bigger canon, and seeing this stuff keep getting added to STO has damaged my immersion in the game. At least the writing quality for the STO stuff here has been better than what's on TV, but it doesn't undo the wider damage that STO has done with the mycelial network and the burn.
What I really dislike about Disc is all the arbitrary large scale threats which utterly ruin my suspension of disbelief. You could have used the Omega molecule for the Burn, but instead you decided to have some random kid form a symbiosis with the Dilithium and render it inert galaxy wide. That's BAD writing, and similar events could happen again.
What if some kid does this in the Delta Quadrant and the Dilithium goes inert again? Burn 2.0? So imagine a normal episode suddenly the burn happens because some kid elsewhere in the galaxy had a tantrum.
This is even worse with the Mycelial network. Remember in season 1 when the Mirror Universe ran the Charon project? According to Stamets that project would kill the Mycelial network, causing EVERY universe to DIE!
They stopped it of course, but what prevents another mirror universe from repeating the process? The mycelial network and how it links all universes and can be killed by someone is bad. Also what about the species living there like the Elachi or those flying fungi creatures? Are they also linked to all universes?
The Kelvin stuff was much easier to stomach as it was generally outside of prime canon with the exception of the destruction of Romulus...which I didn't mind too much because it led to the Iconian and new Romulus storylines here.
But Picard and Disc have severely damaged the universe for me as they're meant to be prime. The Disc stuff in STO have admittedly been written much better than what was on the show, but in the end it still validates the concept from it like the Mycelial network (I'm also not a fan of the Elachi coming from there tbh, I preferred when they were an Iconian servitor race from deep space)
I really hope Star trek can heal one day.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Sukal only got his symbiosis with dilthium not only because he was still in the womb when his mother's ship crashed on a planet that was pretty much made of dilthium, but also because that planet was in the middle on a massively radioactive nebula giving off some pretty rare radiation that mutated him in an incredibly specific way. The statistical probability of anyone else in the galaxy hitting that exact same series of conditions, and living, is pretty much zero. You are far more likely to get a "Charlie X" situation, which is just as bad, then another Sukal.
And if that's bad writing them Star Trek is built off of it. There are so many species in Trek canon from the old shows that could annihilate everyone, or everything, with ease. Why haven't have of them done it? Q could just erase humanity with a wave of the hand, or a snap of the fingers. Douwd similarly just annihilated the Husnok with a thought. The Metrons have been shown to create entire planets in an instant when it amuses them, how powerful would they be if they turned that power toward destruction? This not even getting into lesser beings like the already mentioned "Charlie X", or Gary Mitchell. Who knows what the limits of their powers were if they were given the time to master them.
These sort of things are a near weekly occurrence in Star Trek's setting. Its inevitable one of them wouldn't be stopped by the crew of a show before they actually did something bad.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
At least a certain Q seems to enjoy Picard's company way too much to wipe out humanity, He could have wiped out humanity as payback simply because Sisko punched him but he didn't for some reason.
You are confusing apples and oranges. What you cannot tell just from the sources I mentioned are the more subtle and subjective things like the overall feel of the show, details of the lore of the setting, clues as to what was intended, and such. For those things you do need to dig into the nuances to understand them, but not everything does.
In fact, for writers analyzing how the show is written, what tropes they tend to use the most, what the subgenre of the show is, whether it is drama or melodrama, etc., it is often easier to do it at the script/transcript level without the distractions of the cast performance and SFX.
You don't need to watch the show itself if you have access to those other sources just to know that it is firmly in the space opera subgenre (as apposed to all the other Trek series before DSC, which were mainly soft sci-fi), that it uses melodrama rather than the various other drama types from earlier series, and other features (like it being weighted towards the action movie side of space opera than most of the other space opera series up until now).
And no, I am not saying DSC is intrinsically bad because of those categorization differences from the other series, there is nothing wrong with space operas or melodramas per se. I was just pointing out that the assumption that the only way to know anything at all about a series is to watch it is false, there are a lot of things you can pick up about the style of writing and plotting on a show by reading transcripts, watching synopses and analysis by reasonably unbiased people (not by those who run around in pseudo Vader masks and whatnot...), and other secondary sources.
Ooh, Q did not work on DS9. You also have to wonder if he and the Prophets would have clashed. He certainly worked on Voyager, but then John and Kate were friends in real life and I think they had great rapport.
I think that because apart from Q, who did have "morals" such as they are; all the others appeared in one-time episodes. Whenever a race, creature or being appeared in an episode of Star Trek, it never had to be used again and could safely be ignored. That's the difference between serial and episodic...you can honestly pick and choose what you want to ever use again in an episode, where as your hand is forced to run with a bad idea used in a serial.
It's like Threshold. I'd give anything for that episode not to exist, because it ruins speeds over Warp 10 and was obviously written by someone who didn't know that Warp 13 was no problem. They were never forced to reference it again though, so that's fine. If a Warp 10 barrier had appeared in Disco, then they wouldn't have been able to ignore it.
So, you've had many, many races who could obliterate the quadrant, galaxy, universe and space-time continuum...but the giant space hand hasn't forced the makers of the earlier shows to.
I'll say it again...if Disco was episodic, I honestly don't like the series' premise or its characters, but I might have been able to enjoy the odd episode. If one writer could be charged with an episode, do the best job they could with what they have to work with, instead of having to compensate for a dodgy plot development or something that they really don't want to work with and it shows, maybe Disco could have been redeemed.
I hope so too. I still say that it's incredibly arrogant and unrealistic to believe that absolutely no one else in the entire universe has discovered the Network...seriously, no one?
It's another reason I wish this had been Omega not Spores, because they maybe Discovery could have been charged with making sure no one else ever developed it. Travel across the galaxy, stopping people and keeping the monopoly.
You can't have one race, which let's be honest...humanity is seriously not that advanced. The Cardassians were probably the most scientifically and militaristically advanced race in the Alpha Quadrant, so that humans alone have a Spore Drive?
Especially without warp, others should have made the discovery. Spores Drives, Quantum Slipstream, artificial wormholes, Soliton Waves, transwarp, transwarp corridors, Vaudwaar corridors, (yeesh) "Warp 10", spatial trajectors, coaxial warp, Dominion long-range transporters, JJ's subspace transporters...there are SO many other things that dedicated and desperate races could have developed. Any of those I would have loved to have seen brought into the Discovery, but I still say...knowledge might have been erased or hidden away, but when it came to the crunch, Spore Drives would have been admitted to.
And Cardassians the more advanced scientifically and militarily? HAHAHA, no...maybe in the 22nd and 23rd centuries, but by the 24th, they were very much behind the Federation by several decades...3 of their mainline WAR cruisers working in tandem were needed to match just ONE of Starfleet's 'exploration' cruisers.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
The Cardy's were ingenious. Defence Platform, Dreadnought...they knew what they were doing and I'd have loved to see the Federation's war with them. They went to war with the Cardassians, with Tzenkethi...instead of the Klingons, it would have been great to see a different war going on in Discovery. A new fresh one, where new designed aliens would have been welcomed. It was always changing lore that I think upset people the most. I know, there's justification for it all, but it would have been so easily solved with using any other race. Even though we've seen the Tzenkethi in STO, they could have been made to look any way in Disco...aka, like the reworked Klingons.
The main issue with Discovery is that the alien characters are better written than the human ones, I think Saru should get a spinoff, I like his character the most out of the main cast, plus aside from the Klingons and Ferengi, the make up department did pretty well with Disco Andorians, Disco Tellarites, Disco Aenar, Kelpians, I also liked that they recycled PIC Romulans, while also keeping the same old Vulcans and I'm glad that at least the Trill and Orions still resemble their old selves.
But every time he got to land on the Captain's chair, some circumstance forces him to give it to someone else a while later.
That's one of the various things I hate with DSC: every time something promising happens, it gets replaced or removed.
-Lorca is revealed to be an imposter and oppose the evil emperor? A good-ish Terran, what's that? Well, nvm, he's actually even worse and let's just kill him off in the next episode.
-The Klingons have won the war and are so close to Earth! Next episode: Na, it's OK, they just took some territory, we can manage and we just happen to have something to make them back off.
-Anson Mount's Pike well-deservedly steals the spotlight? Well, let's go to the future without him.
-Airiam gets some interesting backstory and interactions? BOOM, demo... err, Control possession, dead in the same episode.
-Mirror version of the crew? ISS Discovery is destroyed off-screen. But wait, they show up in S3, so that means we can get to learn a lot more! Just kidding, they almost all die by the next episode, anyway and we don't get to know much about them outside of who is loyal to Georgiou and who isn't.
-Saru as Captain! Yes! Except no. Except yes! Except no.
-Georgiou as the token brutal crewmember who has to adapt in an era where the Terran Empire is long gone or maybe convince the crew to get a bit more pragmatic in a new era. Well, let's do that... for a little while only, because we just remembered she was to be featured in a S31 spin-off, so bye, Georgiou!
-Burnham's mother is still alive due to her last time travel! Such a great opportunity to have some meaningful mother-daughter moments a la Mariner and Freeman........... Yeah, cool, but na, next!
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I liked Georgiou. And I liked Mirror Georgiou. Ironically, she was about the only character on Disco I liked. Well, I liked Jason Isaacs too...but that seems like such a long time ago.
Any series that constantly introduces these sort of galactic extinction level threats, and then only uses them for a one off episode, only to never mention said threats again, is insanely poorly written, and isn't treating its concepts with the importance they deserve. Discovery was the first show to treat these sorts of beings with the level of importance they deserve, and treat the effects they could have on the galaxy with the level of importance they deserve. I wish the older shows treated characters like Douwd like Discovery did with Sukal.
Klingons never reached Earth during the war. They had sent forces to attack Earth just before L'rell became Chancellor and called them off.