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32nd Century Earth leaves the Federation . . . Wait, what????

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  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,588 Arc User
    edited November 2021
    reyan01 wrote: »
    husanakx wrote: »
    Discovery is one of the worst written TV shows to ever get more then a couple episodes. Why it is still going is beyond logic.

    No it isn't. The fact that a bunch of vocal Trekkies/Trekkers voice negative opinion about the series on Social Media doesn't reflect the overall popularity of the series any more than the vocal minority here, in STO, reflects on the decisions the Devs make about the game.

    Like it or not the FACT is that, internet opinions aside, its popular enough that it is making money and so long as that is the case they'll continue making it.

    Any time it has made it onto real TV the non subjective ratings where terrible.... last in its time space every single time.
    How did it do on CBS all access... who knows, I mean so well that it required a rebrand. We also know the only numbers they ever reported where 1.5m subs prior to Disco... and 2m subs when CBS released a number 4 or 5 months later when they where also hosting the 60th grammys. (good chance any bump was from that... or a natural bump for a service of that age) At best Disco gave them some advertising... it didn't = a ton of subs. (again no idea why they kept spending money on Disco)

    I think its clear the show bombed in all measurable metrics. Yet they are still burning money on it. It is not logical... had Disco been a TV show it would have been cancelled before the first season ended.
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,588 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    husanakx wrote: »
    Discovery is one of the worst written TV shows to ever get more then a couple episodes.
    Oh, bless your heart, you sweet summer child.

    Now go watch the original Battlestar Galactica - the one with everyone named after legendary Terran myth-figures, wearing Egytian-Empire-themed helmets while flying spaceships, that didn't even know the difference between a star system and a galaxy, and had no idea what "FTL" might even mean or require...

    Yes I watched it... I'm not that young. And yes that show was better written. :)
  • cryptkeeper0cryptkeeper0 Member Posts: 989 Arc User

    rattler2 wrote: »
    The idea of a psychological breakdown resonating with dilithium and spreading across the galaxy... how is that any weirder than... oh I don't know... "What does God need with a starship"?
    I for one would not use one of the worst star trek movies, to explain why some thing isn't bad lol. While Star trek V is guilty pleasure its bad trek and a bad movie. While I see your point on the weirdness of trek much of those were theoretical science put into star trek with mostly smaller conflicts that focus on how the crew of the enterprise dealt with said conflict.

    I think new star trek is stuck in mire forgetting the characters are what make star trek, the best of trek had great character development/interactions to a conflict showing not telling us how they decided to apply their morals, the worst of trek is that character development sometimes never sticks and they often mire characters in the same conflict over and over I think disco also has this issue.
    rattler2 wrote: »
    What do we know about The Burn?
    • A Kelpien ship crashed on a rather unusual planet with an unusually extremely HIGH Dilithium composition.
    • An unborn child was exposed to the sheer amount of Dilithium, creating a symbiotic bond.
    • Said symbiotic bond resonated with the child's emotions.
    • Emotional Trauma ultimately manifested through this bond as an event later known as The Burn.

    Based on all the weird stuff we've seen in the past... how is this any different?
    Not only that... it just shows that despite being pretty much a staple of FTL travel in at least one galaxy... there are still things about Dilithium that we don't know.

    Now that you explained what happened I am even more face palmed by this situation such fantasy like plot device. Too many events just to justify a conflict. That is VOY threshold episode level bad plot contrivances IMO.

    Dilithium has never shown to have any of those attributes, not even in the episode were the Horta were discovered in ta large asteroid literal filled with dilithium, the dilithium never spoke to spock through his telepathy. If it was capable of bonding or forming any sort of link with people, the federation would have know by 32nd century... I don't mind expanding canon but it basically boogles the mind why would you ignore canon just so you can push a plot point. They should have just made it some other material that fed ships in 32nd century use in energy production for increased output or something.
    rattler2 wrote: »
    How do you explore new things without new mysteries or challenges?
    Season 3 of Discovery is no less Trek than anything else. We've got one starship out of time arriving in a galaxy that's basically lost hope. Said ship proceeds to piece together one of the greatest mysteries of that time period when pretty much everyone else has given up.
    And isn't hope one of the narratives people lift up as an element of Star Trek? They literally slapped the galaxy in the face and reminded everyone what Starfleet and the Federation used to be. What it could be again.

    Anyways... that's my take on things.

    I have issue with how they tell the story and the writing, that's not to say TNG+TOS or even DSP9 didn't have stinker episodes they certainly did. They also had stilted dialog at times though that's more a TNG and TOS thing, as gene got a little too involved with TNG in a way. But the characters in those shows were just more believable as officers of a ship then Discovery. Also i think the way ds9/tng even TOS present the stories and plots was in more engaging way most of the time.
  • truewarpertruewarper Member Posts: 928 Arc User
    edited November 2021
    reyan01 wrote: »
    truewarper wrote: »
    i dont see how a child tossing a bed temper around could destroy "ALL" the active dil in the universe. considering how vast the universe is, it maybe....maaaaaaybe, would have gotten one sector of space...sector, not a quadrant, not ALL active dil...
    it was a badly written concept, much akin to all this time travel/repair the timeline BS going on now.

    Welp, just to add to ill concept of that narration...it was stated, that quick ease of that event occurred through subspace. There is a reflection factor with Dil crystals, that there is a duplicate that functions in that realm. So, when that was affected...it went across the spectrum, no matter the Dil crystals resided on the physical side.

    And yes, still the lamest of supposedly scifi trash ever conceived.

    That's not even remotely true unless you are completely unaware of the likes of 'Battlefield Earth' to cite but one example.

    Dude!! I watch that one...and it will be never watched again.
    52611496918_3c42b8bab8.jpg
    Departing from Sol *Earth* by Carlos A Smith,on Flickr
    SPACE---The Last and Great Frontier. A 14th-year journey
    Vna res, una mens, unum cor et anima una. Cetera omnia, somnium est.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,969 Community Moderator
    I for one would not use one of the worst star trek movies, to explain why some thing isn't bad lol. While Star trek V is guilty pleasure its bad trek and a bad movie.

    I think you missed the point I was trying to make. I listed off the top of my head all the weird and crazy things that we've encountered in Star Trek that I could remember without browsing Memory Alpha for a week. Not only that, you zero'd in on only one element of that to shoot the whole thing down.

    We've seen weird. We've seen crazy. And while I agree ST5 sucked, I'm not trying to de-legitimize it in any way. It happened, as much as we don't like it. And yet... here we are trying to dictate what is and what isn't... AGAIN... and trying to find some way to divorce something from another when we've seen things JUST AS CRAZY and accept them. What is the difference?

    The main problem I'm seeing here honestly is that people are being extremely vocal again about their opinions, and lashing out against something they don't like.
    "Its bad storytelling" can be applied to ANYTHING someone doesn't like. Someone could say Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan is bad storytelling because reasons, or point out the flaws like Kahn knowng Chekov despite him not being around for the original Space Seed episode. People can say TMP was bad storytelling because it was a slow paced movie. People can say Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country is bad storytelling because they feel its somehow racist.

    The list can go on and on forever for ANYTHING. I fail to see the point in beating a dead horse over opinions that feel like they're being copy/pasted from one series to another to find fault in something new, and make it sound like its the whole community they speak for when its a personal opinion.
    People hated Enterprise because it looked "too advanced" compared to TOS.
    People hated the Kelvin Timeline because "it destroyed everything we know" despite throwing us the bone of Alternate Reality, and looked "too advanced" compared to TOS.
    People hated Discovery because it looked "too advanced" compared to TOS.

    And the list can go on.

    But instead of continually bashing things and trying to find some fault... why not look at these things from the broader picture of the entire setting or something? Why not look at it from an in universe perspective? How could an event like The Burn happen through Star Trek science knowledge? Why the constant attack when you could have more fun trying to debate how it COULD happen. How many layers of Subspace are there that this could have used to expand so quickly? What is the connection between Dilithium and Subspace that makes such an event work?

    The problem with threads like this is that eventually it will devolve into a form of gatekeeping because someone's gonna decide they're right and someone else is wrong in their view of things, and feel the need to "defend the faith", even when someone else literally says that its their own opinion.

    These things shouldn't devolve into polarizing arguments questioning one's "loyalty", but they do.

    So again the question remains.
    How is The Burn any different than any other weird entity or event we've seen in the ENTIRETY of Star Trek?
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • cryptkeeper0cryptkeeper0 Member Posts: 989 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »

    I think you missed the point I was trying to make. I listed off the top of my head all the weird and crazy things that we've encountered in Star Trek that I could remember without browsing Memory Alpha for a week. Not only that, you zero'd in on only one element of that to shoot the whole thing down.

    We've seen weird. We've seen crazy. And while I agree ST5 sucked, I'm not trying to de-legitimize it in any way. It happened, as much as we don't like it. And yet... here we are trying to dictate what is and what isn't... AGAIN... and trying to find some way to divorce something from another when we've seen things JUST AS CRAZY and accept them. What is the difference?

    Maybe I did miss your point, though I'm not trying to shoot down your point just because I zero'd in on one part its just the other ones before are fairly standard SCIFI plot devices not that weird IMO, maybe I should have addressed them properly I apologize, I don't even think the disco event is all that particularly weird as scifi standards go, until it used two pretty well established bits of canon dilithium and subspace in more of head scratching way. Even movie V for all its flaws tried to expand outside of what had already be established or at least rarely trampled on the established perspective of star trek. I think the difference really comes down to how one treat established canon versus another, one sees it as a way to contrive a plot device with the other contrived its own admittedly stupid plot device outside of established canon.

    If you tread established canon elements you gotta be careful otherwise you will loose your audience's suspension of disbelief. The Abrams star trek movies and discover did this to me almost consistent basis. Once lost a person can't enjoy or immerse themselves in something any more this is natural part of fiction, especially long running fiction and if writers don't at least try to not loose long time fan's suspension of disbelief you are likely to enrage and loose fans.

    While I'm not going to say I or anyone else owns star trek, as fans we do own star trek even if its not in a legal or financial way if it were not for many older fans star trek would have likely faded after it was canceled the first time. I'm not saying people who like new trek are not star trek fans, they are free to like the new stuff. But the IP has changed and CBS just does not respect the old material as much as they love them new $$$s, not that this hasn't been a problem with star trek in the past. But for a bit yes I think they respected older fans a bit more in the NEXT GEN block until they oversupplied and under-delivered, some series needed more time in the oven and better supervising writer I'm looking at you VOY or even to some extent the final seasons of DS9.

    But is star trek V really canon? and not some vulcan mind meld fever dream XD.
    rattler2 wrote: »
    The main problem I'm seeing here honestly is that people are being extremely vocal again about their opinions, and lashing out against something they don't like.
    "Its bad storytelling" can be applied to ANYTHING someone doesn't like. Someone could say Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan is bad storytelling because reasons, or point out the flaws like Kahn knowng Chekov despite him not being around for the original Space Seed episode. People can say TMP was bad storytelling because it was a slow paced movie. People can say Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country is bad storytelling because they feel its somehow racist.

    But instead of continually bashing things and trying to find some fault... why not look at these things from the broader picture of the entire setting or something? Why not look at it from an in universe perspective? How could an event like The Burn happen through Star Trek science knowledge? Why the constant attack when you could have more fun trying to debate how it COULD happen. How many layers of Subspace are there that this could have used to expand so quickly? What is the connection between Dilithium and Subspace that makes such an event work?

    The problem with threads like this is that eventually it will devolve into a form of gatekeeping because someone's gonna decide they're right and someone else is wrong in their view of things, and feel the need to "defend the faith", even when someone else literally says that its their own opinion.

    These things shouldn't devolve into polarizing arguments questioning one's "loyalty", but they do.

    I do think though there is something to shared opinions, makes you realized many of said opinions often happen due to when you started watching star trek. I never saw the original airing of star trek, I watched TOS at 4-6 year old in the early 90s, only when I was 7 or 8 did I find out they had already made a sequel series NEXT GEN. I share a lot of opinions with people who started watching around that time, that new star trek just does not care about the canon that we do. I just except now that cbs does not want to cater to us much anymore other then selling collectables. Because we are picky about how they treat the show, and we don't spend a readily to watch any old star trek show, so they moved on to what they think is more profitable waters eventual too that well will dry up and they will move on again. All though I will admit the one show that did intrigue me to watch was lower decks I liked the first episode, but I'm not paying cbs for one series lol if it were cheap with no ads I might bite but too many streaming services. That all are going to lead back to internet form of cable and then to commercials+cable.

    But enough of me moping about my first world problems, point is I think as long as the bashing doesn't get personal. It's healthy to vent, but yah I do think we can ruminate on them because its easier to do so on internet forum. Before we had to go outside to conventions o.o;
    I just wanted to tell you why I feel the way I do, I understand that you don't find it any weirder then other Startrek stuff frankly I agree but I do think breaks the established canon which means I can't just over look it like maybe you can.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,354 Arc User
    Dilithium has never shown to have any of those attributes, not even in the episode were the Horta were discovered in ta large asteroid literal filled with dilithium, the dilithium never spoke to spock through his telepathy.
    The Horta lived on a planet, Janus VI, which had large deposits of magnesite, not dilithium. (The large deposits were in fact the Horta's eggs - it was a silicon-based creature, which used heavy metals the way we use lighter elements like calcium.) And dilithium doesn't "speak" to anyone - the sapient creature involved wasn't the dil, it was the Kelpien child which had interfaced with the dilithium matrix through a genetic process that actually exists in some terrestrial creatures.

    If you're going to complain, maybe you should at least try to learn what you're talking about first. (And BTW, yes, ST5 is canon, little as I enjoy the fact. "Canon" is defined as anything that's been shown in a movie or live-action series episode.)
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  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    Disco (what I hear of it, at least) comes across as poorly-written fanfic by someone who didn't actually like Trek.
  • paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,774 Arc User
    kiralyn wrote: »
    Disco (what I hear of it, at least) comes across as poorly-written fanfic by someone who didn't actually like Trek.

    I never undrrstood why Surek of all people would adopt the daughter of a random stranger, I get if it was a family friend but then again Surek was pretty weird by Vulcan standards, his first wife was a crazy heretic and a princess, who than gave birth to Sybok who was pretty much a Romulan in all but name, Romulans are basically Vulcans who embraced their emotions just like Spock's brother cult, than He married a Human which I have to remind you that Vulcans are pretty racist and tend to be against anything that's remotely different than the usual norm.
  • vorwodavorwoda Member Posts: 694 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    Dilithium has never shown to have any of those attributes, not even in the episode were the Horta were discovered in ta large asteroid literal filled with dilithium, the dilithium never spoke to spock through his telepathy.
    The Horta lived on a planet, Janus VI, which had large deposits of magnesite, not dilithium.

    Actually, the ore in question was Pergium.
    vorwoda wrote: »
    jonsills wrote: »
    husanakx wrote: »
    Discovery is one of the worst written TV shows to ever get more then a couple episodes.
    Oh, bless your heart, you sweet summer child.

    Now go watch the original Battlestar Galactica - the one with everyone named after legendary Terran myth-figures, wearing Egytian-Empire-themed helmets while flying spaceships, that didn't even know the difference between a star system and a galaxy, and had no idea what "FTL" might even mean or require...

    To be fair, he did say "one of the worst". But while the original Battlestar was pretty awful, at least it DID have John Colicos in it as a major baddie. For worst science before Disco, though, I'll take Space:1999. An explosion on the far side of the moon sends the moon hurtling AWAY from earth - instead of smack into it, which leaves the moon as your hero spaceship. With the human colony on it alive and well. Riiiiiiiiggghhtt....

    also to be fair, many past sci fi shows, regardless of genre (trek, SW, BSG, Dr Who, etc...) had to be creative in how they presented things and made effects. they also told more stories as a general rule, to me at least, as compared to modern day disco trek that wants to be politically correct vs telling a good story, or upping the game with effects and oooos and awwwws to grab attention.
    i quite like the older sci fi programs as it brought more imagination and cleaver use of back in the day tools, items etc, to make it work. (plus, i just dig the ToS connie interior)

    Agree 100%. I was trying to be humourous. :) And Space: 1999 DID have those cool little Eagle ships.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,459 Arc User
    kiralyn wrote: »
    Disco (what I hear of it, at least) comes across as poorly-written fanfic by someone who didn't actually like Trek.

    I never undrrstood why Surek of all people would adopt the daughter of a random stranger, I get if it was a family friend but then again Surek was pretty weird by Vulcan standards, his first wife was a crazy heretic and a princess, who than gave birth to Sybok who was pretty much a Romulan in all but name, Romulans are basically Vulcans who embraced their emotions just like Spock's brother cult, than He married a Human which I have to remind you that Vulcans are pretty racist and tend to be against anything that's remotely different than the usual norm.

    Surek was looking for a human fosterling who could help Spock deal with his human side and smart enough to learn the Vulcan way at the same time (for various reasons). Burnham came from a family of scientists and was apparently rather well-adjusted so she was the logical choice.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,354 Arc User
    kiralyn wrote: »
    Disco (what I hear of it, at least) comes across as poorly-written fanfic by someone who didn't actually like Trek.
    If you're not watching it, you have no idea. NB: Most of those slamming DSC don't watch it.

    It's a lot like the people who gave up on STO in its first couple of years, who complain about how much this game sucks because they don't actually play it and have no idea. (Or, for that matter, like the people who never watched DS9 because since it was on a space station, "it's not real Star Trek", and whined about it for years afterward.)
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  • kayajaykayajay Member Posts: 1,990 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    kiralyn wrote: »
    Disco (what I hear of it, at least) comes across as poorly-written fanfic by someone who didn't actually like Trek.
    If you're not watching it, you have no idea. NB: Most of those slamming DSC don't watch it.

    It's a lot like the people who gave up on STO in its first couple of years, who complain about how much this game sucks because they don't actually play it and have no idea. (Or, for that matter, like the people who never watched DS9 because since it was on a space station, "it's not real Star Trek", and whined about it for years afterward.)

    It would be nice if that comment of yours was redacted by a Mod too. #unnecessaryhostility
  • kayajaykayajay Member Posts: 1,990 Arc User
    vorwoda wrote: »
    jonsills wrote: »
    Dilithium has never shown to have any of those attributes, not even in the episode were the Horta were discovered in ta large asteroid literal filled with dilithium, the dilithium never spoke to spock through his telepathy.
    The Horta lived on a planet, Janus VI, which had large deposits of magnesite, not dilithium.

    Actually, the ore in question was Pergium.
    vorwoda wrote: »
    jonsills wrote: »
    husanakx wrote: »
    Discovery is one of the worst written TV shows to ever get more then a couple episodes.
    Oh, bless your heart, you sweet summer child.

    Now go watch the original Battlestar Galactica - the one with everyone named after legendary Terran myth-figures, wearing Egytian-Empire-themed helmets while flying spaceships, that didn't even know the difference between a star system and a galaxy, and had no idea what "FTL" might even mean or require...

    To be fair, he did say "one of the worst". But while the original Battlestar was pretty awful, at least it DID have John Colicos in it as a major baddie. For worst science before Disco, though, I'll take Space:1999. An explosion on the far side of the moon sends the moon hurtling AWAY from earth - instead of smack into it, which leaves the moon as your hero spaceship. With the human colony on it alive and well. Riiiiiiiiggghhtt....

    also to be fair, many past sci fi shows, regardless of genre (trek, SW, BSG, Dr Who, etc...) had to be creative in how they presented things and made effects. they also told more stories as a general rule, to me at least, as compared to modern day disco trek that wants to be politically correct vs telling a good story, or upping the game with effects and oooos and awwwws to grab attention.
    i quite like the older sci fi programs as it brought more imagination and cleaver use of back in the day tools, items etc, to make it work. (plus, i just dig the ToS connie interior)

    Agree 100%. I was trying to be humourous. :) And Space: 1999 DID have those cool little Eagle ships.

    One of my absolute favourites was Blake's 7...but it suffered after they lost the Liberator and had to keep changing the cast. The premise was fantastic and the first series still stands up today.

    Funnily enough, I was also watching Knightmare recently...the first three series were ahead of their time, using weatherman blue screen and ingenuity.

  • kayajaykayajay Member Posts: 1,990 Arc User
    And talking of The Finale Frontier...it would have been fun to see that alien finally getting his hands on a starship, merging with and using it as his chariot to do whatever he had in mind.
  • starshine#7408 starshine Member Posts: 127 Arc User
    If you actually watch the show, it makes perfect sense.
    Politics change, the federation is about it's ideals, infinite diversity and cooperation. Not one planet or species.

    Earth withdrawing from the UFP makes 100% sense, it's not really what happened in DISCO, that's more the federation for all intents and purposes collapsed outside of idealistic hold outs working to bring it back.

    -Re: kayajay
    Star Trek V storyline or TFO would be brilliant!
    TOS>LDS>DSC>VOY>DS9>PRO>ENT>TNG>PIC

    Bring the Enterprise XCV-330 to STO
  • captainkoltarcaptainkoltar Member Posts: 895 Arc User
    kayajay wrote: »
    It would be nice if that comment of yours was redacted by a Mod too. #unnecessaryhostility

    It's a perfectly valid point. Chipping in to a discussion to say effectively 'Well I've heard this is rubbish' is pointless, and does nothing but fan the flames of the 'yeah me too' crowd.
  • cryptkeeper0cryptkeeper0 Member Posts: 989 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    Dilithium has never shown to have any of those attributes, not even in the episode were the Horta were discovered in ta large asteroid literal filled with dilithium, the dilithium never spoke to spock through his telepathy.
    The Horta lived on a planet, Janus VI, which had large deposits of magnesite, not dilithium. (The large deposits were in fact the Horta's eggs - it was a silicon-based creature, which used heavy metals the way we use lighter elements like calcium.) And dilithium doesn't "speak" to anyone - the sapient creature involved wasn't the dil, it was the Kelpien child which had interfaced with the dilithium matrix through a genetic process that actually exists in some terrestrial creatures.

    If you're going to complain, maybe you should at least try to learn what you're talking about first. (And BTW, yes, ST5 is canon, little as I enjoy the fact. "Canon" is defined as anything that's been shown in a movie or live-action series episode.)
    Please forgive me for getting my TOS episodes crossed for a series that's been completely out now, for like what 52 years. Also forgive me for getting it explained to me not completely accurately, but neither are you being exactly accurate either. So Kelpiens have emense Star trek V levels godly telepathic powers that can encompass the federation in 32 century ? If not how does starfleet not know about such a problem with dilithium in the 32nd century, after centuries of study and use, for the vulcans even more, that some how the crystal resonant in subspace with every other crystal ? That expansion of canon breaks a lot of previous canon, that makes it not very good.

    You know the star trek V bit at the end was sarcasm, though the series almost treats it as non canon.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,354 Arc User
    Also forgive me for getting it explained to me not completely accurately, but neither are you being exactly accurate either.
    My error was the exact mineral being mined for on Janus VI. Yours was, well, everything, a fact which completely invalidated your point. And again, what the Kelpien had was a somewhat-malleable DNA pattern that was affected by the radiation of the planet itself, which again is a real-world phenomenon and not something yanked out of a back pocket. He clearly wasn't "telepathic" at all, else the team would never have been able to lie to him about being part of the simulation. What he had was an interface with dilithium, the crystalline structure of which exists partly in subspace. His cry was at the resonant frequency of the space/subspace interface of the dilithium, which cracked, rendering the crystals affected inert. (This was all explained on the show, BTW, in language which I for one thought was pretty clear.)
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,354 Arc User
    kayajay wrote: »
    jonsills wrote: »
    kiralyn wrote: »
    Disco (what I hear of it, at least) comes across as poorly-written fanfic by someone who didn't actually like Trek.
    If you're not watching it, you have no idea. NB: Most of those slamming DSC don't watch it.

    It's a lot like the people who gave up on STO in its first couple of years, who complain about how much this game sucks because they don't actually play it and have no idea. (Or, for that matter, like the people who never watched DS9 because since it was on a space station, "it's not real Star Trek", and whined about it for years afterward.)

    It would be nice if that comment of yours was redacted by a Mod too. #unnecessaryhostility
    It would be nice if some people didn't take every single thread that mentions DSC as an opportunity to attack the very concept of the show, usually revealing in the process that they don't know what that concept is because they're proud of never watching it because "it's not really Star Trek". I personally don't believe I was being hostile, just a tad fed up by a constant barrage of pointless negativity.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,385 Arc User
    edited November 2021
    What do we know about The Burn?
    • A Kelpien ship crashed on a rather unusual planet with an unusually extremely HIGH Dilithium composition.
    • An unborn child was exposed to the sheer amount of Dilithium, creating a symbiotic bond.
    • Said symbiotic bond resonated with the child's emotions.
    • Emotional Trauma ultimately manifested through this bond as an event later known as The Burn.

    The bond is so symbiotic that moving Su'Kal away from that specific pile of dilithium completely cancelled it... which was a incredibly convenient way to easily solve the problem.

    The whole thing was nonsensical and incredibly silly from the beginning to the end. Even the name is downright narmy. That's like calling 911 "The Splat" or something.

    I also love how this single-handedly revived the Federation with members immediately starting to rejoin. Forget 1 century of changed politics, treaties and overall altered galaxy, the catastrophe didn't get reversed but its mystery got solved, it should not happen again and everyone accepted it was due to a dilithium-altered child screaming, yay, let's go back to the status quo.

    That's the extreme version of that sitcom trope where the protagonist's unknown father shows up out of nowhere after leaving the family when the hero was a baby and after one episode of minor conflict and repressed anger, he's back in the house, no administrative stuff implied to be done, everyone acts like he's always been there and all the daddy issues are gone.
    #TASforSTO
    Iconian_Trio_sign.jpg?raw=1
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,275 Arc User
    The member that immediately rejoined was Trill...which Discovery had already helped earlier in the year (I'm assuming they still used the standard 1 year in RL = 1 year passed in Star Trek) - and the one considering it was Ni'Var...which Discovery ALSO helped earlier in the year - no others were mentioned by name. Trill was probably already considering it after the aid they received, and Discovery solving the mystery of The Burn AND basically decapitating the Emerald Chain probably sped that up significantly...I'm sure a gift of what is now the rarest element in the local group if not a good portion of the universe didn't hurt, either. And Ni'Var is still considering it, also likely a process that started after Discovery helped prove it wasn't THEM that caused a galaxy-wide catastrophe - at the very least, relations are warm enough that they were willing to send a fleet to protect Federation HQ.

    I would not call that even remotely close to a sitcom trope - it may still be a little too fast for full suspension of disbelief, but it is nowhere NEAR as bad as you are making it out to be.​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,385 Arc User
    edited November 2021
    I would not call that even remotely close to a sitcom trope - it may still be a little too fast for full suspension of disbelief, but it is nowhere NEAR as bad as you are making it out to be.​​
    I wasn't talking about Trill only, but the other ones as well.

    We're talking about quickly undoing a whole CENTURY of changes due to a catastrophe that killed millions and shattered a near-millenium-old galaxy-wide organization.
    I'm pretty sure that's quite worse than a disappeared father coming back to his family without fuss.
    Post edited by saurializard on
    #TASforSTO
    Iconian_Trio_sign.jpg?raw=1
  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 4,100 Arc User
    .
    jonsills wrote: »
    husanakx wrote: »
    Discovery is one of the worst written TV shows to ever get more then a couple episodes.
    Oh, bless your heart, you sweet summer child.

    Now go watch the original Battlestar Galactica - the one with everyone named after legendary Terran myth-figures, wearing Egytian-Empire-themed helmets while flying spaceships, that didn't even know the difference between a star system and a galaxy, and had no idea what "FTL" might even mean or require...
    ^^^
    BSG1978 was Shakesphere compared to say Logan's Run (the series) or Buck Rogers in the 25th Century (circa1979). ;)
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
    TOS_Connie_Sig_final9550Pop.jpg
    PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,459 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    kiralyn wrote: »
    Disco (what I hear of it, at least) comes across as poorly-written fanfic by someone who didn't actually like Trek.
    If you're not watching it, you have no idea. NB: Most of those slamming DSC don't watch it.

    It's a lot like the people who gave up on STO in its first couple of years, who complain about how much this game sucks because they don't actually play it and have no idea. (Or, for that matter, like the people who never watched DS9 because since it was on a space station, "it's not real Star Trek", and whined about it for years afterward.)

    That is not necessarily true, there are enough synopsis sources out there that you can actually get a good idea of how the show is written on a purely plot level that can be compared with the other Treks on that level for instance, though that does not always give a good sense of how the good the show might be because the acting, filming techniques, and other factors can have a greater impact on the overall enjoyableness of a show than the writing alone.

    And to be fair, even adding clips can only give a hint at the overall effect, and can be misleading depending on the clips chosen (that has lead to some notable problems with movie and series trailers, like the early trailers for The Orville giving a totally different impression from the series itself for instance).

    So while saying if a movie or series is "good" or not in the sense of how entertaining it is cannot be done without actually seeing it (and even then it is subjective depending on the viewer's tastes), other comments about the genre, quality of writing, whether their plots respect the continuity of previous works, and other details actually can be legitimately made by using alternate sources like transcripts, behind the scenes featurettes, and clips (ideally with also having seen at least a few complete episodes to pick up some of the feel of the show as well, though it is not an absolute requirement).

  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,275 Arc User
    You're the one who keeps constantly bringing up subtlety and nuance as things someone needs to have been fully versed in to 'get' TOS - the same applies for any show, Star Trek or otherwise, and that kind of thing is NOT available through clips, synopses, transcripts or anything other than watching the actual episode...all the way through, and multiple times to pick up the things that were missed on the first few runthroughs.

    So no, you CANNOT get a good idea how a show is written on a pure plot level without actually watching the ENTIRE series.​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
This discussion has been closed.