The bond is so symbiotic that moving Su'Kal away from that specific pile of dilithium completely cancelled it... which was a incredibly convenient way to easily solve the problem.
If you think about it, yes. It was pretty much that simple. The symbiotic relationship wasn't the same as what the Trill have with Symbiotes.
Neither one of them were DEPENDANT on each other to survive, but they were connected to each other in a way that allowed for one to be affected by the other.
The whole thing was nonsensical and incredibly silly from the beginning to the end. Even the name is downright narmy. That's like calling 911 "The Splat" or something.
I think that falls to the fact that no one new the cause. What happened was a complete mystery that devastated pretty much all of known space.
I also love how this single-handedly revived the Federation with members immediately starting to rejoin. Forget 1 century of changed politics, treaties and overall altered galaxy, the catastrophe didn't get reversed but its mystery got solved, it should not happen again and everyone accepted it was due to a dilithium-altered child screaming, yay, let's go back to the status quo.
I don't think solving the mystery of The Burn alone did it. It was the actions of USS Discovery actually reaching out and being proactive rather than what Starfleet HAD been doing, which based on my understanding was just hunkering down and waiting it out for all intents and purposes. Starfleet turtled, but Discovery actually DID what Starfleet was meant to do.
That's the extreme version of that sitcom trope where the protagonist's unknown father shows up out of nowhere after leaving the family when the hero was a baby and after one episode of minor conflict and repressed anger, he's back in the house, no administrative stuff implied to be done, everyone acts like he's always been there and all the daddy issues are gone.
Not really sure how to respond to that one.
Honestly I feel that this exchange here was a lot more rewarding, even if no one proves anything. It's just "here's this" with a viable counter argument. No bashing really. Just... comparing notes for all intents and purposes. Thanks Sauria. I actually had some fun. If you wanna discuss other topics sometime, I'm open.
BTW why did the Vulcans rename their planet to Ni'Var, Romulans were originally Vulcans at some point in their history, so wouldn't it make sense to keep the original name and if they we're going to rename the planet why not call it Planet Spock, after the guy who successfully reunified the Romulans with their Vulcan cousins.
Ni var was a term coined circa 1967 by linguist Dorothy Jones, who wrote the Dorothy and Myfanwy series of Star Trek stories for the fanzine T-Negative in the late 1960s and early 1970s. It literally means "two form" and was an art form practiced on Vulcan in which a subject was examined from two different viewpoints, or in terms of its having two different aspects or natures. Ni var poetry and art were printed in Spockanalia and various other fanzines, and the term, actually part of a sophisticated Vulcan language invented by Ms. Jones, caught on like wildfire in the Star Trek fan community.
"Ni Var" was also the name of a novella originally entitled The Thousandth Man by Claire Gabriel, which was cut down to short-story length for publication in the 1976 anthology The New Voyages (edited by Sondra Marshak and Myrna Culbreath; the original novella by Gabriel was the final chapter of a six-part book which is now available for reading at Jacqueline Lichtenberg's website). In the story, it was "a Vulcan term referring to the duality of things: two who are one, two diversities that are a unity, two halves that come together to make a whole" (from Leonard Nimoy's introduction to the short story, which did not credit Ms. Jones as the originator of the term). It seemed likely that the ship of that name seen in the Star Trek: Enterprise episode "Shadows of P'Jem" was named after this story and that the writers were unaware of the origins of the term, as Ms. Jones' Star Trek stories were never professionally published and have been largely forgotten. According to episode co-writer Mike Sussman, the starship Ni'Var was indeed an homage to the short story published in The New Voyages. The Star Trek Encyclopedia (4th ed., vol. 2, p. 81) corroborated Sussman's account.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Also forgive me for getting it explained to me not completely accurately, but neither are you being exactly accurate either.
My error was the exact mineral being mined for on Janus VI. Yours was, well, everything, a fact which completely invalidated your point. And again, what the Kelpien had was a somewhat-malleable DNA pattern that was affected by the radiation of the planet itself, which again is a real-world phenomenon and not something yanked out of a back pocket. He clearly wasn't "telepathic" at all, else the team would never have been able to lie to him about being part of the simulation. What he had was an interface with dilithium, the crystalline structure of which exists partly in subspace. His cry was at the resonant frequency of the space/subspace interface of the dilithium, which cracked, rendering the crystals affected inert. (This was all explained on the show, BTW, in language which I for one thought was pretty clear.)
My error was the Dilithium in that particular episode, but it doesn't render my whole point moot. Dilithium up until that episode has never been said to be connected subspace on that level. All dilithium is a crystal that helps regulate the matter/antimatter reactions that provide the energy necessary to warp through space and travel faster than light. Its essentially not even the part of warp drives that warps the space but apart of the power generation that powers the drive. If it did have a connection to subspace, making warpbubbles would be that much harder, if the shows are go by it would likely tear holes in subspace and like. But sure maybe that was accounted for, still odd choose to add especially with all the subspace anomalies the shows over the years have shown, with out their warp cores exploding.
The part about the Kelpien fusing in a biological way with the crystals fine weird biology but believable, though it does bring up the question if it allows that much control of a object. Does that mean if a kelpian did that with water they could cause a tidal wave how much volume cry can they put out. While resonance is something you can do to crack a crystal shattering the crystal. This would dampen the wave and reduce the volume as well as distort the frequency as it exits the crystal lattice. This then comes to the conclusion that all dilithium are connected to each other some how through subspace. The problem with that is, that would mean this would have happened before and not been some freak accident. Anytime a ship accidentally got in resonance while in warp with dilithium it could potential destroy all dilithium everywhere all at once even unmined dilithium..
Then comes to my final thoughts, why don't they just recrystallize them with the Matrix compositor. This allows a ship to simply recrystalize dilithium. Or has the 32nd century lost that tech ? MY critics are not you shouldn't like the show but come from a passion for star trek, but after seeing the first seasons new shows + it left me dissatisfied, dissapointed, and upset the direction they are taking the canon while kinda erasing what came before at the same time. I hold no grudge or hatred for those that do like the new shows, or movies. There are some I did enjoy, like star trek beyond because I generally felt there was more believable plot devices and it manged to not break my immersion as well as good character moments+ interactions that admitingly the first reboot movie had to but the immersion breaking moments were bad in that movie for me. I know its hard to write and make these shows with how much has been explained before, I get they want to take trek in different direction just happens that direction has left many fans in the dark. So don't feel like you need to justify you love or enjoyment of the new star trek stuff have at it.
I'm not trying to ruin anybodies fun, I just suggest you just don't engage with fans who don't feel the same way you do about a franchises direction. I get that causes echo chambers, but in some way echo chambers are part of keeping healthy mind sometimes especially on the internet where we often don't get the tone of someone just by reading. Take our interact I'm not actual as pissed about discovery as you may think, I don't like it sure but there's nothing I can do about it. I also don't have much more to say about why I don't like this particular development. I would also never say the whole show is bad, just that there are many things about it don't like that keep me from enjoying my time watching it.
It's never been said that it WASN'T either - canon was completely ambiguous on what connection dilithium has with subspace up until Discovery S3 - you can't break something that never existed before.
As for recrystallizing it - that IS what they've been doing with the remaining supply - Book said as much in the...second episode, I believe it was. But inert dilithium probably can't be recrystallized...the least of reasons being it all got blown apart by the subsequent warp core breaches of all the ships it was in at the time of being rendered inert. And even if they could salvage usable fragments from the wreckage of destroyed ships...entropy can't be cheated - recrystallization can only be used so many times on any given crystal before it becomes useless, otherwise the whole issue with the galaxy's dilithium supply running out would never have been an issue to begin with.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
BTW why did the Vulcans rename their planet to Ni'Var, Romulans were originally Vulcans at some point in their history, so wouldn't it make sense to keep the original name and if they we're going to rename the planet why not call it Planet Spock, after the guy who successfully reunified the Romulans with their Vulcan cousins.
If I had to make an educated guess, it's what the Vulcans actually call Vulcan. After they left the Federation, they could have basically just said "you know what, enough of this humanocentric naming convention, we know what we're called". The same thing with Romulus and the Romulans (most of the literature, non-canon, but still, refers to Romulus as "ch'Rhian" and the Romulans as the "Rihannsu", or the "Declared", in their own language). You want something that makes no sense? Aliens who go with what humans call them, as opposed to what they call themselves.
It's never been said that it WASN'T either - canon was completely ambiguous on what connection dilithium has with subspace up until Discovery S3 - you can't break something that never existed before.
It still would kinda Imply that every single crystal, were connected directly in subspace for this to have such a cascade reaction. Which begs the question why it had not happened sooner from a subspace anomaly or the ship's resonance ? Also subspace exists outside of time and space so why didn't it also effect stuff from the past destroying warp travel for all time. I also disagree there is still some amount of acceptability when it comes to changing or added to a existing concept. I think this jumps the shark especially with the scope of the consequences, because this also implies the dilithium couldn't be recrystallize which star fleet has been able to do for a very long time.
Ni var was a term coined circa 1967 by linguist Dorothy Jones, who wrote the Dorothy and Myfanwy series of Star Trek stories for the fanzine T-Negative in the late 1960s and early 1970s. It literally means "two form" and was an art form practiced on Vulcan in which a subject was examined from two different viewpoints, or in terms of its having two different aspects or natures. Ni var poetry and art were printed in Spockanalia and various other fanzines, and the term, actually part of a sophisticated Vulcan language invented by Ms. Jones, caught on like wildfire in the Star Trek fan community.
"Ni Var" was also the name of a novella originally entitled The Thousandth Man by Claire Gabriel, which was cut down to short-story length for publication in the 1976 anthology The New Voyages (edited by Sondra Marshak and Myrna Culbreath; the original novella by Gabriel was the final chapter of a six-part book which is now available for reading at Jacqueline Lichtenberg's website). In the story, it was "a Vulcan term referring to the duality of things: two who are one, two diversities that are a unity, two halves that come together to make a whole" (from Leonard Nimoy's introduction to the short story, which did not credit Ms. Jones as the originator of the term). It seemed likely that the ship of that name seen in the Star Trek: Enterprise episode "Shadows of P'Jem" was named after this story and that the writers were unaware of the origins of the term, as Ms. Jones' Star Trek stories were never professionally published and have been largely forgotten. According to episode co-writer Mike Sussman, the starship Ni'Var was indeed an homage to the short story published in The New Voyages. The Star Trek Encyclopedia (4th ed., vol. 2, p. 81) corroborated Sussman's account.
That's why.
That's rather fascinating information I hadn't read before.
(/\) Exploring Star Trek Online Since July 2008 (/\)
i dont see how a child tossing a bed temper around could destroy "ALL" the active dil in the universe. considering how vast the universe is, it maybe....maaaaaaybe, would have gotten one sector of space...sector, not a quadrant, not ALL active dil...
it was a badly written concept, much akin to all this time travel/repair the timeline BS going on now.
in the same nonsensical way a nova in one sector managed to nuke Romulus and Remus, lightyears away
According to the lore of the United Earth Defense Force Vessel, Earth in the 32nd century left the Federation.
How does that make any sense at all? In Star Trek, the Federation is headquartered on Earth from day one. What is going on here?
If this has anything to do with Discovery, I've only seen the first season. I'm not terribly impressed by Discovery, so I don't mind spoilers if necessary.
It doesn't, but that's Discovery in a nutshell, it doesn't make any sense and rarely if ever fits canon at all. Discovery traveled to the 32nd century where a event called "the burn" cause much of the active dilithium to explode (it was caused by a kid throwing a tantrum in a nebula on a planet that had dilithium on it, extremely nonsensical compared to even fan theories.)
So warp travel was scarce and apparently even though in lore there is a abundance of methods of ftl travel beyond your typical matter/antimatter warp core, in typical fashion they ignored it all and just said that in almost a thousand years no one was able to design a new type of ftl drive beyond standard warp. They outlawed time travel so they can be rid of that drive because they couldn't think of a better way to make their story fit
So we're in the 32nd century and Earth is by themselves...of course gotta make them humans racist because what would Discovery be if it wasn't the 21st century in space (nothing)?
thanks, and yikes. I already disliked discovery seeping into STO, but man that's a hackjob. I wish Cryptic would blunt cbs shennanegans pushing it's DSC content into STO.
i dont see how a child tossing a bed temper around could destroy "ALL" the active dil in the universe. considering how vast the universe is, it maybe....maaaaaaybe, would have gotten one sector of space...sector, not a quadrant, not ALL active dil...
it was a badly written concept, much akin to all this time travel/repair the timeline BS going on now.
in the same nonsensical way a nova in one sector managed to nuke Romulus and Remus, lightyears away
Well, to be fair, when what happened was revealed, it WAS considered nonsensical already, which is why the former main plot of STO was to uncover how this happened, specifically because it didn't make sense.
They could have gone the Picard way and say it was greatly exaggerated and then retconned to something a bit tamer (it's still nonsensical, though and the (non-canon) tie-in novel of Picard still tries to imply it wasn't a natural phenomenon anyway), but I'm pretty sure that'd have been a bad idea for Cryptic at the time to go and say "Hey, Star Trek 2009 team, your "Romulus being blown up by a sun and threatening more than one solar system in less than several years" plot point is freaking stupid, so do you mind if we retconned this for our game that depends on your success to revitalize the franchise after Enterprise, Nemesis and Voyager killed it?"
There was also a terrific point that since Romulans used artificial singularities in their warp cores, that they could have capitalized on the situation and run rings around the few ships that survived after "The Burn".
It should have been a 32nd Century under Romulan rule.
I also don't understand why when no one knew the reason all the Dilithium exploded, why for a second anyone would risk keeping the remaining amounts around. Unless they were keeping it in bomb-proof rooms, then it would have been ridiculous.
We also know that Book's ship had Quantum Slipstream, although we never saw it...did we? Why didn't Starfleet switch to using that, or we know they experimented with artificial wormholes in the 24th Century, OR are you seriously telling me that there was absolutely no top secret record of Spore Drives that would come out of the woodwork?
If The Burn had been a weapon, like Stargate Atlantis' Attero Device...maybe even used by the Romulans for the intention of being able to take over. They destroyed or crippled every race of the Federation and then swooped in. That would have been reasonably exciting.
At the end of season three though, I thought that was a perfect time for the series to end. Discovery disappears into the future, never to return of be seen again, taking all of its secrets with it.
I also don't understand why when no one knew the reason all the Dilithium exploded, why for a second anyone would risk keeping the remaining amounts around. Unless they were keeping it in bomb-proof rooms, then it would have been ridiculous.
We also know that Book's ship had Quantum Slipstream, although we never saw it...did we? Why didn't Starfleet switch to using that, or we know they experimented with artificial wormholes in the 24th Century, OR are you seriously telling me that there was absolutely no top secret record of Spore Drives that would come out of the woodwork?
Well, they explained all of these things.
The Burn did not cause dilthium to explode, it caused it to become inert. Dilthium is not a power source, its used to regulate power in the matter-antimatter drive. It suddenly going inert caused ships to explode because the power supply suddenly became unbalanced because the regulator(dilthium) suddenly stopped regulating. They could keep dilthium itself on their dining room table and be fine, because the dilthium itself didn't explode.
Book mentions that while his ship is technically able to use Quantum Slipstream the drive require benmite to operate(As mentioned in Voyager). That substance is even rarer then dilthium, and takes years to artificially produce(also as mentioned in Voyager), so that kind of drive isn't viable.
Artficial wormhole drives have also never worked out in Star Trek. Book mentions at the beginning of S3 of Discovery that the Gorn recently ruined a part of subspace trying to make wormholes.
There was also a terrific point that since Romulans used artificial singularities in their warp cores, that they could have capitalized on the situation and run rings around the few ships that survived after "The Burn".
It should have been a 32nd Century under Romulan rule.
As I recall, the singularity only replaced the matter-antimatter part of other species warp drives. Its never stated that they don't use dilthium to regulate the power of their singularity drives, and the fact they have such extensive mining operations on Remus suggests they do.
Hang on, hang on...have I just blotted this out of my mind or didn't "The Burn" blow up ships? Trill Symbiotes wiped out, the Fleet not just floating around the Alpha Quadrant without warp drive, but destroyed...that was the whole thing, wasn't it?
Either way, it was an awful plot, but in which case...why did Starfleet end up practically extinct? Oh and I really mean to make this a explanation of Discovery thing, but I must just have it wrong.
Earth leaving the Federation also never made sense to me, because Starfleet existed before the Federation (Enterprise), then it became the military for every race (the Bajoran Militia needs to be absorbed into Starfleet)...but if Starfleet stuck by any one race, surely it would have been the one that created it? Earth was the headquarters for Starfleet AND the Federation (DS9)...so what, did Earth just boot them off?
I hope the Vulcans on N'Var would still admit how illogical those plot developments are.
Hang on, hang on...have I just blotted this out of my mind or didn't "The Burn" blow up ships? Trill Symbiotes wiped out, the Fleet not just floating around the Alpha Quadrant without warp drive, but destroyed...that was the whole thing, wasn't it?
Either way, it was an awful plot, but in which case...why did Starfleet end up practically extinct? Oh and I really mean to make this a explanation of Discovery thing, but I must just have it wrong.
Earth leaving the Federation also never made sense to me, because Starfleet existed before the Federation (Enterprise), then it became the military for every race (the Bajoran Militia needs to be absorbed into Starfleet)...but if Starfleet stuck by any one race, surely it would have been the one that created it? Earth was the headquarters for Starfleet AND the Federation (DS9)...so what, did Earth just boot them off?
I hope the Vulcans on N'Var would still admit how illogical those plot developments are.
No. The Burn caused all Dilithium to become inert. And since it became inert it was no longer able to regulate matter-antimatter reactions in any power source (such as warp cores) reliant on it. The ships etc that exploded did so because there was, very suddenly, nothing to regulate the reaction between matter and antimatter, causing immediate warp core breaches.
This was why Starships that had their warp cores offline at the time the Burn occurred were not affected.
Starfleet didn't really end up 'practically extinct' either. They certainly lost a LOT of ships, but it was stated that the primary issue was both losses of ships and distance. They couldn't communicate with more distant sectors (damage to subspace and loss of communication relay stations) and couldn't determine the status of any ships or stations in those sectors.
We don't know exactly what happened with regard to Earth - only that they seceded due to feeling an urgency to protect the planet and it's resources - something that they were probably not confident that post-Burn Starfleet, with it's limited resources, could promise to do. And to be honest, it seemed to work for Earth - they may have chosen isolation but that route clearly avoided the anarchy that we saw on many other worlds.
It's just not a very sexy story. For a show that's so showy, it just doesn't back it up with something more clear-cut and satisfying...for me personally, I'm not on the attack.
Actually it was the complete opposite, the Trill Symbiots now out numbered the Trill, I would have to say more Trill died than Joined Trill, BTW I wonder if the Dax symbiot survived the Burn, since that's the only Symbiot that matters.
Yes,he's alive, he's the reason why Saru left to visit his homeworld, he's trying to reintegrate the kid back into Kelpian culture, but let's be honest here that kid will never be accepted by his society simply because he was born a freak, because as someone with autism and ADHD I know what's it like to be born different from everyone else, that brand is stuck with you until the day you die, the divorced parents, growing up in the foster care system and my mixed heritage didn't really help matters much either, the point is that Kid is a freak of nature that won't be accepted by his people, at best he'll be tolerated and at worse he'll be branded as an outcast, there's also his body count to consider so he might even be put on trail for his crimes.
Kids never get tried for accidental deaths...not in civilized countries at least - not in this time period and certainly not in a time period 1000 years divorced from this one.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
It's never been said that it WASN'T either - canon was completely ambiguous on what connection dilithium has with subspace up until Discovery S3 - you can't break something that never existed before.
It still would kinda Imply that every single crystal, were connected directly in subspace for this to have such a cascade reaction. Which begs the question why it had not happened sooner from a subspace anomaly or the ship's resonance ? Also subspace exists outside of time and space so why didn't it also effect stuff from the past destroying warp travel for all time. I also disagree there is still some amount of acceptability when it comes to changing or added to a existing concept. I think this jumps the shark especially with the scope of the consequences, because this also implies the dilithium couldn't be recrystallize which star fleet has been able to do for a very long time.
Well, it could explain why the Enterprise D when colliding with the other ship in the time loop episode did experience a warp core breach, even though the other ship actually hit the warp nacelles, which is quite a distant from the warp core. The hit to the nacelle might have triggered a subspace event that resonated with the crystal, and that lead to the breach.
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Actually it was the complete opposite, the Trill Symbiots now out numbered the Trill, I would have to say more Trill died than Joined Trill, BTW I wonder if the Dax symbiot survived the Burn, since that's the only Symbiot that matters.
The most MASSIVE trick missed by Disco, was that Symbiote not being Dax. It would have really brought the series into the rest of the franchise, given you the opportunity of character development, with Jadzia and Ezri's memories in there...with Terry now being Mrs Roddenbery, I bet she'd have even cameo'd.
No one, once, ever said it covered the entire universe, either in-universe or out-of-universe via BTS stuff - in fact, the page on The Burn says it was a GALAXY-wide event in the very first sentence.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
No one, once, ever said it covered the entire universe, either in-universe or out-of-universe via BTS stuff - in fact, the page on The Burn says it was a GALAXY-wide event in the very first sentence.
You've really got to feel for absolutely every other civilisation in the four quadrants that that royally screwed.
Urgh...if only it had been an Omega chain-reaction! If only instead of a Spore Drive, Discovery had been all about Omega...the "discovery", the threat and the danger and the POWER.
The most MASSIVE trick missed by Disco, was that Symbiote not being Dax. It would have really brought the series into the rest of the franchise, given you the opportunity of character development, with Jadzia and Ezri's memories in there...with Terry now being Mrs Roddenbery, I bet she'd have even cameo'd.
While it would have been nice to see Dax again... therein lies the problem. It could also turn into another "shoehorn" debate like with Burnham's connection to Spock. "Oh they only did it because NAMEDROP" and all that.
And before anyone goes off on that tangent, need I remind everyone that Spock was QUITE private about his family throughout the entire series. Kirk, his best friend, never knew Ambassador Sarek was Spock's father until HE MET THE MAN ON THE ENTERPRISE DURING A DIPLOMATIC EVENT! And then we come to the next part. Sybok. Kirk never knew Spock had siblings of ANY kind until they ran into Sybok on Nimbus III. And on top of that, Spock can be QUITE literal in his wording. He quite literally said he didn't have a BROTHER. He had a HALF-Brother. Spock could very well say that he never had a sister, but a FOSTER sister. Therefor him saying he never had a brother or sister is still correct as they aren't full blood siblings.
So again... yea would have been nice to see Dax, but it could have been taken the wrong way. There's still a chance we will see Dax in the future, but perhaps it was for the best that we have Tal.
Also they wouldn't be able to just get away with Jadzia in that cameo. They'd need Ezri as well.
Comments
If you think about it, yes. It was pretty much that simple. The symbiotic relationship wasn't the same as what the Trill have with Symbiotes.
Neither one of them were DEPENDANT on each other to survive, but they were connected to each other in a way that allowed for one to be affected by the other.
I think that falls to the fact that no one new the cause. What happened was a complete mystery that devastated pretty much all of known space.
I don't think solving the mystery of The Burn alone did it. It was the actions of USS Discovery actually reaching out and being proactive rather than what Starfleet HAD been doing, which based on my understanding was just hunkering down and waiting it out for all intents and purposes. Starfleet turtled, but Discovery actually DID what Starfleet was meant to do.
Not really sure how to respond to that one.
Honestly I feel that this exchange here was a lot more rewarding, even if no one proves anything. It's just "here's this" with a viable counter argument. No bashing really. Just... comparing notes for all intents and purposes. Thanks Sauria. I actually had some fun. If you wanna discuss other topics sometime, I'm open.
That's why.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
The part about the Kelpien fusing in a biological way with the crystals fine weird biology but believable, though it does bring up the question if it allows that much control of a object. Does that mean if a kelpian did that with water they could cause a tidal wave how much volume cry can they put out. While resonance is something you can do to crack a crystal shattering the crystal. This would dampen the wave and reduce the volume as well as distort the frequency as it exits the crystal lattice. This then comes to the conclusion that all dilithium are connected to each other some how through subspace. The problem with that is, that would mean this would have happened before and not been some freak accident. Anytime a ship accidentally got in resonance while in warp with dilithium it could potential destroy all dilithium everywhere all at once even unmined dilithium..
Then comes to my final thoughts, why don't they just recrystallize them with the Matrix compositor. This allows a ship to simply recrystalize dilithium. Or has the 32nd century lost that tech ? MY critics are not you shouldn't like the show but come from a passion for star trek, but after seeing the first seasons new shows + it left me dissatisfied, dissapointed, and upset the direction they are taking the canon while kinda erasing what came before at the same time. I hold no grudge or hatred for those that do like the new shows, or movies. There are some I did enjoy, like star trek beyond because I generally felt there was more believable plot devices and it manged to not break my immersion as well as good character moments+ interactions that admitingly the first reboot movie had to but the immersion breaking moments were bad in that movie for me. I know its hard to write and make these shows with how much has been explained before, I get they want to take trek in different direction just happens that direction has left many fans in the dark. So don't feel like you need to justify you love or enjoyment of the new star trek stuff have at it.
I'm not trying to ruin anybodies fun, I just suggest you just don't engage with fans who don't feel the same way you do about a franchises direction. I get that causes echo chambers, but in some way echo chambers are part of keeping healthy mind sometimes especially on the internet where we often don't get the tone of someone just by reading. Take our interact I'm not actual as pissed about discovery as you may think, I don't like it sure but there's nothing I can do about it. I also don't have much more to say about why I don't like this particular development. I would also never say the whole show is bad, just that there are many things about it don't like that keep me from enjoying my time watching it.
As for recrystallizing it - that IS what they've been doing with the remaining supply - Book said as much in the...second episode, I believe it was. But inert dilithium probably can't be recrystallized...the least of reasons being it all got blown apart by the subsequent warp core breaches of all the ships it was in at the time of being rendered inert. And even if they could salvage usable fragments from the wreckage of destroyed ships...entropy can't be cheated - recrystallization can only be used so many times on any given crystal before it becomes useless, otherwise the whole issue with the galaxy's dilithium supply running out would never have been an issue to begin with.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
If I had to make an educated guess, it's what the Vulcans actually call Vulcan. After they left the Federation, they could have basically just said "you know what, enough of this humanocentric naming convention, we know what we're called". The same thing with Romulus and the Romulans (most of the literature, non-canon, but still, refers to Romulus as "ch'Rhian" and the Romulans as the "Rihannsu", or the "Declared", in their own language). You want something that makes no sense? Aliens who go with what humans call them, as opposed to what they call themselves.
"There's No Way Like Poway!"
Real Join Date: October 2010
That's rather fascinating information I hadn't read before.
in the same nonsensical way a nova in one sector managed to nuke Romulus and Remus, lightyears away
thanks, and yikes. I already disliked discovery seeping into STO, but man that's a hackjob. I wish Cryptic would blunt cbs shennanegans pushing it's DSC content into STO.
They could have gone the Picard way and say it was greatly exaggerated and then retconned to something a bit tamer (it's still nonsensical, though and the (non-canon) tie-in novel of Picard still tries to imply it wasn't a natural phenomenon anyway), but I'm pretty sure that'd have been a bad idea for Cryptic at the time to go and say "Hey, Star Trek 2009 team, your "Romulus being blown up by a sun and threatening more than one solar system in less than several years" plot point is freaking stupid, so do you mind if we retconned this for our game that depends on your success to revitalize the franchise after Enterprise, Nemesis and Voyager killed it?"
There was also a terrific point that since Romulans used artificial singularities in their warp cores, that they could have capitalized on the situation and run rings around the few ships that survived after "The Burn".
It should have been a 32nd Century under Romulan rule.
I also don't understand why when no one knew the reason all the Dilithium exploded, why for a second anyone would risk keeping the remaining amounts around. Unless they were keeping it in bomb-proof rooms, then it would have been ridiculous.
We also know that Book's ship had Quantum Slipstream, although we never saw it...did we? Why didn't Starfleet switch to using that, or we know they experimented with artificial wormholes in the 24th Century, OR are you seriously telling me that there was absolutely no top secret record of Spore Drives that would come out of the woodwork?
If The Burn had been a weapon, like Stargate Atlantis' Attero Device...maybe even used by the Romulans for the intention of being able to take over. They destroyed or crippled every race of the Federation and then swooped in. That would have been reasonably exciting.
At the end of season three though, I thought that was a perfect time for the series to end. Discovery disappears into the future, never to return of be seen again, taking all of its secrets with it.
The Burn did not cause dilthium to explode, it caused it to become inert. Dilthium is not a power source, its used to regulate power in the matter-antimatter drive. It suddenly going inert caused ships to explode because the power supply suddenly became unbalanced because the regulator(dilthium) suddenly stopped regulating. They could keep dilthium itself on their dining room table and be fine, because the dilthium itself didn't explode.
Book mentions that while his ship is technically able to use Quantum Slipstream the drive require benmite to operate(As mentioned in Voyager). That substance is even rarer then dilthium, and takes years to artificially produce(also as mentioned in Voyager), so that kind of drive isn't viable.
Artficial wormhole drives have also never worked out in Star Trek. Book mentions at the beginning of S3 of Discovery that the Gorn recently ruined a part of subspace trying to make wormholes.
As I recall, the singularity only replaced the matter-antimatter part of other species warp drives. Its never stated that they don't use dilthium to regulate the power of their singularity drives, and the fact they have such extensive mining operations on Remus suggests they do.
Either way, it was an awful plot, but in which case...why did Starfleet end up practically extinct? Oh and I really mean to make this a explanation of Discovery thing, but I must just have it wrong.
Earth leaving the Federation also never made sense to me, because Starfleet existed before the Federation (Enterprise), then it became the military for every race (the Bajoran Militia needs to be absorbed into Starfleet)...but if Starfleet stuck by any one race, surely it would have been the one that created it? Earth was the headquarters for Starfleet AND the Federation (DS9)...so what, did Earth just boot them off?
I hope the Vulcans on N'Var would still admit how illogical those plot developments are.
It's just not a very sexy story. For a show that's so showy, it just doesn't back it up with something more clear-cut and satisfying...for me personally, I'm not on the attack.
Actually it was the complete opposite, the Trill Symbiots now out numbered the Trill, I would have to say more Trill died than Joined Trill, BTW I wonder if the Dax symbiot survived the Burn, since that's the only Symbiot that matters.
Yes,he's alive, he's the reason why Saru left to visit his homeworld, he's trying to reintegrate the kid back into Kelpian culture, but let's be honest here that kid will never be accepted by his society simply because he was born a freak, because as someone with autism and ADHD I know what's it like to be born different from everyone else, that brand is stuck with you until the day you die, the divorced parents, growing up in the foster care system and my mixed heritage didn't really help matters much either, the point is that Kid is a freak of nature that won't be accepted by his people, at best he'll be tolerated and at worse he'll be branded as an outcast, there's also his body count to consider so he might even be put on trail for his crimes.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
The most MASSIVE trick missed by Disco, was that Symbiote not being Dax. It would have really brought the series into the rest of the franchise, given you the opportunity of character development, with Jadzia and Ezri's memories in there...with Terry now being Mrs Roddenbery, I bet she'd have even cameo'd.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
You've really got to feel for absolutely every other civilisation in the four quadrants that that royally screwed.
Urgh...if only it had been an Omega chain-reaction! If only instead of a Spore Drive, Discovery had been all about Omega...the "discovery", the threat and the danger and the POWER.
While it would have been nice to see Dax again... therein lies the problem. It could also turn into another "shoehorn" debate like with Burnham's connection to Spock. "Oh they only did it because NAMEDROP" and all that.
And before anyone goes off on that tangent, need I remind everyone that Spock was QUITE private about his family throughout the entire series. Kirk, his best friend, never knew Ambassador Sarek was Spock's father until HE MET THE MAN ON THE ENTERPRISE DURING A DIPLOMATIC EVENT! And then we come to the next part. Sybok. Kirk never knew Spock had siblings of ANY kind until they ran into Sybok on Nimbus III. And on top of that, Spock can be QUITE literal in his wording. He quite literally said he didn't have a BROTHER. He had a HALF-Brother. Spock could very well say that he never had a sister, but a FOSTER sister. Therefor him saying he never had a brother or sister is still correct as they aren't full blood siblings.
So again... yea would have been nice to see Dax, but it could have been taken the wrong way. There's still a chance we will see Dax in the future, but perhaps it was for the best that we have Tal.
Also they wouldn't be able to just get away with Jadzia in that cameo. They'd need Ezri as well.