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Tomorrow: Endevour/Admiralty pass tokens will ONLY be available for dilithium

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  • paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,302 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    It's good to know that this isn't the Devs fault, but rather the players who suggested this idea, Honestly I'm going to have to side with the Mods like usual, you guys need to calm the TRIBBLE down, we don't need to make a mountain out of a molehill, please don't make things worse, the Devs didn't do anything wrong and the last thing we need is a Dil Ex Civil War.

    Lol first the Dil Ex Crash and now a Dil Ex Civil War, these Story Arcs literally write themselves, if we replace Dil with Energy Credits in the script this could possibly end up as STO content.

    Sorry, but you simply don't understand the situation.

    We were asked for suggestions on things we would want to spend Dilithium on. We offered those suggestions, things we would want to spend our dilithium on, things that we can be rewarded with for earning that dilithium. We had the idea that if someone runs out of re-roll tokens, let them use some of that dilithium to get more, it was a good idea.

    Here is what Crytpic did with that idea..

    They turned it into a punishment. They took something in game, that was normally available for free through regular game play, they took it away and now they're selling it back to us for dilithium. Do you see why this annoys people? Dilithium sinks should be a reward.. something players want to spend Dilithium on, they created a problem and sold us a solution. They converted a reward into a punishment.

    Meanwhile, there were literally hundreds of other suggestions, ways to reward people for spending dilithium.. all ignored.

    We are mad because our developers just simply don't get it.
    The current CM is not a bad guy. I don't wish bad on anyone. Even with the current CM: things can still get better. Perhaps I am too optimistic for my own good; but, no one is void of another chance.

    We have been trying that approach for years, asking nicely and sadly it has gotten us absolutely nowhere. Does that justify the extreme measures some took in threatening him? Of course not, but it does help to at least understand where they are coming from. They are trying to get Kael to finally listen. The fact that they had to update the rules to make it a violation to ask for a new CM means he at least understands people are upset.

    The next question is, does he care? We'll see, but I'm not optimistic. You're right, he's a good guy.. I wish him well, I just don't think he's found the role with the company that's best suited for him.

    I know I was there, I offered my suggestions around the time this whole Dil Ex mess started, sure they messed up big time by taking away something that was free and giving it a price, the fact that barely anyone used it even when it was free makes it worthless Dil sink, but if the Devs want to stop receiving death theats I highly suggest avoiding that Internet cesspool they call Twitter, it's literally the worst place on the Internet trust me I'm usually on the weird half of the Internet you know the kind that requires brain bleach, just don't look at my browser history, Twitter is full of cancel culture, doxxing, death threats, hurling insults, Sometimes I wonder if they're actually grown adults or immature children, like who throws tantrums over other people's posts, sorry I'm getting off topic, anyways, Space barbie is the endgame so my Idea of building a permanent Dil Sink around Space barbie would work perfectly, might have to move some Zen items over to the Dil Store, what do people like dressing up their toons, flying the best ships, pets everyone loves pets, console is currently doing exchange lobi for the freedom class frigate, why not do something similar but with Dil instead of Lobi, I rarely get angry, most of the time it's disappointment.
  • paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,302 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    For the love of all that is good and holy...JUST IGNORE SOM ALREADY. We all know he is a sycophant of all things Cryptic and will say the sky is green if they told him it was. You know it, I know, we all know it at this point. Just steer new people away from him and the forum will be a much better place.

    Personally I don't mind Som, is he annoying and puts down most of my brilliant ideas, why yes, but you need people with opposing view points in order to hold an intellectual conversation, otherwise you'll end up with a hive mind of yes men and that gets boring pretty quickly, his insight is a unique counter balance to my own, I'm not doing a very good job of defending him, but if Som pisses someone off don't try to get the Mods, they have enough on their plate and they don't deserve the extra work.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    You just keep missing the exceedingly simple, glaringly obvious point:

    And he always will. The best thing you can do to foster an actual conversation is ignore him. I don't even read his replies to me, I suggest you do the same. Once you learn that lesson, the forums become much more tollerable. Keep offering your suggestions, just don't let him catch you up in his game. He always twists things to fit his narrative, and he always will. You can't change that.
    I know I was there, I offered my suggestions around the time this whole Dil Ex mess started, sure they messed up big time by taking away something that was free and giving it a price, the fact that barely anyone used it even when it was free makes it worthless Dil sink, but if the Devs want to stop receiving death theats I highly suggest avoiding that Internet cesspool they call Twitter, it's literally the worst place on the Internet trust me I'm usually on the weird half of the Internet you know the kind that requires brain bleach, just don't look at my browser history, Twitter is full of cancel culture, doxxing, death threats, hurling insults, Sometimes I wonder if they're actually grown adults or immature children, like who throws tantrums over other people's posts, sorry I'm getting off topic, anyways, Space barbie is the endgame so my Idea of building a permanent Dil Sink around Space barbie would work perfectly, might have to move some Zen items over to the Dil Store, what do people like dressing up their toons, flying the best ships, pets everyone loves pets, console is currently doing exchange lobi for the freedom class frigate, why not do something similar but with Dil instead of Lobi, I rarely get angry, most of the time it's disappointment.

    First, let me just say that's the single greatest run on sentence I have ever seen.. well done. :lol:

    Of course, I kid.. I pretty much agree with everything you said. I avoid Twitter for all the reasons you just said.. it's definitely not the place for me. I find it just as toxic as you do. :smile:

    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • banditse1977#1368 banditse1977 Member Posts: 44 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »

    So...they are gonna communicate less than not at all somehow? The threat of we will cut off communication only work if there WAS ANY TO BEGIN WITH. Yeah, physical threats or stalking is a no no (this is a game...seriously don't do that)...but if you can't handle some people saying some mean words hire a CM. Like a REAL one...not Kael. An ACTUAL CM who has interacted with this community at all instead of hanging out in twitch while creating an echo chamber by censoring anyone who disagree with you would have been able to tell you how badly this would have gone down. Hell, Bort as a dev should know how badly creating a problem to sell solutions is accepted in gaming. Yeah, the money is good...which is why you do it...but NO PLAYERS in this history of gaming went...oh you know what I REALLY want from a game? For it to play badly so I can buy the solution for it.

    The answer is never. Never in the history of gaming has taking something away so it can be sold back gone over well. Which says a lot of unflattering things about whoever suggested this change and all the people who didn't call that person out for being a dumb***.

    Do a search for World of Warships at the moment,they have done something similar and the house is on fire over there.

    23 Community Contributors have quit the program there ( so far ),players are getting stuck into Wargaming over the issue,the gaming media is getting onto it and some outside media as well.

    Push hard enough and people start taking notice.



  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,733 Arc User
    All of the examples you mentioned things people actually want and are willing to spend dilithium on.
    Are you suggesting people don't want the ability to skip over admiralty projects, or endeavor missions, they don't want, and wouldn't spend diltihum on them if they had to, like the above examples?

    Talking about twisting reality when you can't even remain consistent in your own argument.

    You just keep missing the exceedingly simple, glaringly obvious point:

    None of your examples are them taking away things that people already got for free.

    That is the entire point. That is the entire reason people are upset about this. That is the thing you just keep missing.
    That is precisely what is wrong. Due to this change I lost over 200 tokens that I spent many, many hours earning. Now I am expected to pay something like 500k+ Dilithium to buyback those tokens that I had already spent hours earning.

    The problem isn't allowing us to buy tokens for Dilithium that is great. The problem is removing the tokens and making us buy them. It wouldn't even of been as bad if they only got rid of new tokens it was removing old earned tokens that is flat out wrong. Although I guess some people would still be upset about new tokens for valid reasons.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,395 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    All of the examples you mentioned things people actually want and are willing to spend dilithium on.
    Are you suggesting people don't want the ability to skip over admiralty projects, or endeavor missions, they don't want, and wouldn't spend diltihum on them if they had to, like the above examples?

    Talking about twisting reality when you can't even remain consistent in your own argument.

    You just keep missing the exceedingly simple, glaringly obvious point:

    None of your examples are them taking away things that people already got for free.

    That is the entire point. That is the entire reason people are upset about this. That is the thing you just keep missing.
    That is precisely what is wrong. Due to this change I lost over 200 tokens that I spent many, many hours earning. Now I am expected to pay something like 500k+ Dilithium to buyback those tokens that I had already spent hours earning.

    The problem isn't allowing us to buy tokens for Dilithium that is great. The problem is removing the tokens and making us buy them. It wouldn't even of been as bad if they only got rid of new tokens it was removing old earned tokens that is flat out wrong. Although I guess some people would still be upset about new tokens for valid reasons.


    Wait, they got removed from existing, saved-up boxes too? Très uncool.
    ChCDpuh.jpg
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,733 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    All of the examples you mentioned things people actually want and are willing to spend dilithium on.
    Are you suggesting people don't want the ability to skip over admiralty projects, or endeavor missions, they don't want, and wouldn't spend diltihum on them if they had to, like the above examples?

    Talking about twisting reality when you can't even remain consistent in your own argument.

    You just keep missing the exceedingly simple, glaringly obvious point:

    None of your examples are them taking away things that people already got for free.

    That is the entire point. That is the entire reason people are upset about this. That is the thing you just keep missing.
    That is precisely what is wrong. Due to this change I lost over 200 tokens that I spent many, many hours earning. Now I am expected to pay something like 500k+ Dilithium to buyback those tokens that I had already spent hours earning.

    The problem isn't allowing us to buy tokens for Dilithium that is great. The problem is removing the tokens and making us buy them. It wouldn't even of been as bad if they only got rid of new tokens it was removing old earned tokens that is flat out wrong. Although I guess some people would still be upset about new tokens for valid reasons.


    Wait, they got removed from existing, saved-up boxes too? Très uncool.
    That's what they said it has been removed from the loot table so existing box's lose them. Which is why so many players are upset.
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 4,143 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    All of the examples you mentioned things people actually want and are willing to spend dilithium on.
    Are you suggesting people don't want the ability to skip over admiralty projects, or endeavor missions, they don't want, and wouldn't spend diltihum on them if they had to, like the above examples?

    Talking about twisting reality when you can't even remain consistent in your own argument.

    You just keep missing the exceedingly simple, glaringly obvious point:

    None of your examples are them taking away things that people already got for free.

    That is the entire point. That is the entire reason people are upset about this. That is the thing you just keep missing.
    That is precisely what is wrong. Due to this change I lost over 200 tokens that I spent many, many hours earning. Now I am expected to pay something like 500k+ Dilithium to buyback those tokens that I had already spent hours earning.

    The problem isn't allowing us to buy tokens for Dilithium that is great. The problem is removing the tokens and making us buy them. It wouldn't even of been as bad if they only got rid of new tokens it was removing old earned tokens that is flat out wrong. Although I guess some people would still be upset about new tokens for valid reasons.


    Wait, they got removed from existing, saved-up boxes too? Très uncool.
    That's what they said it has been removed from the loot table so existing box's lose them. Which is why so many players are upset.

    well, if you havent opened them by now, obviously you didnt need/want whats inside.
  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    Look, I am a hoarder. And this game is nothing compared to LOTRO for hoarding. But hoarding those boxes?? I can't wrap my head around that one. I guess you all did way more endeavors than I would. I've always used rerolls and just skip green entirely - and often blue. Having hundreds of those boxes is really just I don't know. Let's say... no comment.
    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    All of the examples you mentioned things people actually want and are willing to spend dilithium on.
    Are you suggesting people don't want the ability to skip over admiralty projects, or endeavor missions, they don't want, and wouldn't spend diltihum on them if they had to, like the above examples?

    Talking about twisting reality when you can't even remain consistent in your own argument.

    You just keep missing the exceedingly simple, glaringly obvious point:

    None of your examples are them taking away things that people already got for free.

    That is the entire point. That is the entire reason people are upset about this. That is the thing you just keep missing.
    That is precisely what is wrong. Due to this change I lost over 200 tokens that I spent many, many hours earning. Now I am expected to pay something like 500k+ Dilithium to buyback those tokens that I had already spent hours earning.

    The problem isn't allowing us to buy tokens for Dilithium that is great. The problem is removing the tokens and making us buy them. It wouldn't even of been as bad if they only got rid of new tokens it was removing old earned tokens that is flat out wrong. Although I guess some people would still be upset about new tokens for valid reasons.


    Wait, they got removed from existing, saved-up boxes too? Très uncool.
    That's what they said it has been removed from the loot table so existing box's lose them. Which is why so many players are upset.

    well, if you havent opened them by now, obviously you didnt need/want whats inside.

    What an absolutely ridiculous thing to say.
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 4,143 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    All of the examples you mentioned things people actually want and are willing to spend dilithium on.
    Are you suggesting people don't want the ability to skip over admiralty projects, or endeavor missions, they don't want, and wouldn't spend diltihum on them if they had to, like the above examples?

    Talking about twisting reality when you can't even remain consistent in your own argument.

    You just keep missing the exceedingly simple, glaringly obvious point:

    None of your examples are them taking away things that people already got for free.

    That is the entire point. That is the entire reason people are upset about this. That is the thing you just keep missing.
    That is precisely what is wrong. Due to this change I lost over 200 tokens that I spent many, many hours earning. Now I am expected to pay something like 500k+ Dilithium to buyback those tokens that I had already spent hours earning.

    The problem isn't allowing us to buy tokens for Dilithium that is great. The problem is removing the tokens and making us buy them. It wouldn't even of been as bad if they only got rid of new tokens it was removing old earned tokens that is flat out wrong. Although I guess some people would still be upset about new tokens for valid reasons.


    Wait, they got removed from existing, saved-up boxes too? Très uncool.
    That's what they said it has been removed from the loot table so existing box's lose them. Which is why so many players are upset.

    well, if you havent opened them by now, obviously you didnt need/want whats inside.

    What an absolutely ridiculous thing to say.

    ymmv, sorry to have caused you to dislike my statement.

    allow me to rewrite said post...
    my thoughts, yours may not align...if you havent opened them by now, obviously you didnt need/want whats inside.

    i would ask though, why in your perspective is this ridiculous? curios i am.
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,240 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    well, if you havent opened them by now, obviously you didnt need/want whats inside.
    The tokens have a cap, they can't be kept safe anywhere, and if you get one after reaching the cap it disappears, hence why the boxes weren't opened yet.
    #TASforSTO
    Iconian_Trio_sign.jpg?raw=1
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 4,143 Arc User
    well, if you havent opened them by now, obviously you didnt need/want whats inside.
    The tokens have a cap, they can't be kept safe anywhere, and if you get one after reaching the cap it disappears, hence why the boxes weren't opened yet.

    i can apply this logic enough that i can see why people keep them, but only slightly. valid enough to consider a reason why, even if someone is at 50 and they kept boxes of them so as to never fall below 50...
  • solidshark214solidshark214 Member Posts: 288 Arc User
    The tokens have a cap, they can't be kept safe anywhere, and if you get one after reaching the cap it disappears, hence why the boxes weren't opened yet.
    This would make sense,,, if tokens weren't so commonplace that its neigh impossible to drop below 40 without actively trying to.

    That has not been my experience. Just for the record. I seldom had more than one or two at a time.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 55,676 Community Moderator
    The problem is that you can't guarantee what is in the boxes. You can't say "I saved up x amount of tokens" because its all RNG. Yea you COULD have that many, or you could have 1 in there and a bunch of ECs. So realistically... you can't say you "lost x amount of tokens" from hoarded boxes because... you just don't know whats in said boxes until they are opened.

    So I'm sorry but I can't agree with that statement on the simple fact of the RNG nature of said boxes.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,733 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    The problem is that you can't guarantee what is in the boxes. You can't say "I saved up x amount of tokens" because its all RNG. Yea you COULD have that many, or you could have 1 in there and a bunch of ECs. So realistically... you can't say you "lost x amount of tokens" from hoarded boxes because... you just don't know whats in said boxes until they are opened.

    So I'm sorry but I can't agree with that statement on the simple fact of the RNG nature of said boxes.
    What? Of course you can estimate within a reasonable factor. There was a pretty good drop rate and on average with large sample size you pretty much always got the same amount of tokens within a reasonable variance. RNG does allow you to say with this many box's on average you will get this many tokens with a variance of x tokens.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,733 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    All of the examples you mentioned things people actually want and are willing to spend dilithium on.
    Are you suggesting people don't want the ability to skip over admiralty projects, or endeavor missions, they don't want, and wouldn't spend diltihum on them if they had to, like the above examples?

    Talking about twisting reality when you can't even remain consistent in your own argument.

    You just keep missing the exceedingly simple, glaringly obvious point:

    None of your examples are them taking away things that people already got for free.

    That is the entire point. That is the entire reason people are upset about this. That is the thing you just keep missing.
    That is precisely what is wrong. Due to this change I lost over 200 tokens that I spent many, many hours earning. Now I am expected to pay something like 500k+ Dilithium to buyback those tokens that I had already spent hours earning.

    The problem isn't allowing us to buy tokens for Dilithium that is great. The problem is removing the tokens and making us buy them. It wouldn't even of been as bad if they only got rid of new tokens it was removing old earned tokens that is flat out wrong. Although I guess some people would still be upset about new tokens for valid reasons.


    Wait, they got removed from existing, saved-up boxes too? Très uncool.
    That's what they said it has been removed from the loot table so existing box's lose them. Which is why so many players are upset.

    well, if you havent opened them by now, obviously you didnt need/want whats inside.
    That's correct I didn't want anything in them apart from the tokens so I only opened them when I needed more tokens. Just like many other players. I had put my time in and earned those tokens and now those tokens have been taken away from us after we have earned them. That is the problem. Not the change in the buying new tokens, its taking away the already owned tokens that is wrong.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 55,676 Community Moderator
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    What? Of course you can estimate within a reasonable factor. There was a pretty good drop rate and on average with large sample size you pretty much always got the same amount of tokens within a reasonable variance. RNG does allow you to say with this many box's on average you will get this many tokens with a variance of x tokens.

    But you cannot guarantee it. You cannot say for an absolute fact that you have that many. While yes by the law of averages you can estimate an amount if you know the numbers, but again... the nature of RNG still makes it random because it is a dice roll on each and every box. So you actually do have a chance of either getting more, less, or the highly unlikely non at all.

    The only fact with those boxes is that you have x number of boxes. What is in those boxes is still up to RNG upon opening said boxes.

    And as someone with terrible E rank luck... I know that RNG can be a PITA.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,733 Arc User
    The tokens have a cap, they can't be kept safe anywhere, and if you get one after reaching the cap it disappears, hence why the boxes weren't opened yet.
    This would make sense,,, if tokens weren't so commonplace that its neigh impossible to drop below 40 without actively trying to.

    That has not been my experience. Just for the record. I seldom had more than one or two at a time.
    You are correct players playing perfectly normally without trying to run low often had few tokens. Like you I rarely had more then 1 or 2 tokens. I tended to use a lot more up in the week then weekends when I had more time to do the longer ones.
  • paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,302 Arc User
    11 pages in and we haven't gotten anywhere.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,395 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    All of the examples you mentioned things people actually want and are willing to spend dilithium on.
    Are you suggesting people don't want the ability to skip over admiralty projects, or endeavor missions, they don't want, and wouldn't spend diltihum on them if they had to, like the above examples?

    Talking about twisting reality when you can't even remain consistent in your own argument.

    You just keep missing the exceedingly simple, glaringly obvious point:

    None of your examples are them taking away things that people already got for free.

    That is the entire point. That is the entire reason people are upset about this. That is the thing you just keep missing.
    That is precisely what is wrong. Due to this change I lost over 200 tokens that I spent many, many hours earning. Now I am expected to pay something like 500k+ Dilithium to buyback those tokens that I had already spent hours earning.

    The problem isn't allowing us to buy tokens for Dilithium that is great. The problem is removing the tokens and making us buy them. It wouldn't even of been as bad if they only got rid of new tokens it was removing old earned tokens that is flat out wrong. Although I guess some people would still be upset about new tokens for valid reasons.


    Wait, they got removed from existing, saved-up boxes too? Très uncool.
    That's what they said it has been removed from the loot table so existing box's lose them. Which is why so many players are upset.

    well, if you havent opened them by now, obviously you didnt need/want whats inside.


    You don't believe in savings accounts then, do you? Prudent ppl tend ro put stuff aside for a rainy day.
    ChCDpuh.jpg
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,395 Arc User
    11 pages in and we haven't gotten anywhere.


    In TL;DR (slightly apodictic) form:

    1) Nobody minds them having introduced the ability to buy Endeavor token with Diliithium;
    2) Everybody minds having the free tokens being taken away.

    3) Peeps were looking for a fun way to spend Dilithium as a sink;
    4) Bort thought "A sink is where I nerf everyone's ability to earn/spend/stockpile Dilithium."
    ChCDpuh.jpg
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 4,310 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    All of the examples you mentioned things people actually want and are willing to spend dilithium on.
    Are you suggesting people don't want the ability to skip over admiralty projects, or endeavor missions, they don't want, and wouldn't spend diltihum on them if they had to, like the above examples?

    Talking about twisting reality when you can't even remain consistent in your own argument.

    You just keep missing the exceedingly simple, glaringly obvious point:

    None of your examples are them taking away things that people already got for free.

    That is the entire point. That is the entire reason people are upset about this. That is the thing you just keep missing.
    That is precisely what is wrong. Due to this change I lost over 200 tokens that I spent many, many hours earning. Now I am expected to pay something like 500k+ Dilithium to buyback those tokens that I had already spent hours earning.

    The problem isn't allowing us to buy tokens for Dilithium that is great. The problem is removing the tokens and making us buy them. It wouldn't even of been as bad if they only got rid of new tokens it was removing old earned tokens that is flat out wrong. Although I guess some people would still be upset about new tokens for valid reasons.


    Wait, they got removed from existing, saved-up boxes too? Très uncool.
    That's what they said it has been removed from the loot table so existing box's lose them. Which is why so many players are upset.

    well, if you havent opened them by now, obviously you didnt need/want whats inside.


    You don't believe in savings accounts then, do you? Prudent ppl tend ro put stuff aside for a rainy day.

    That bank comparison would only be valid if your ready total always hovered close to 50 and you needed a pad to keep it from going over and losing the excess. Storing the boxes when you only have a few (like the total of 2 tokens mentioned earlier) in the ready count is something entirely different.
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 4,143 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    All of the examples you mentioned things people actually want and are willing to spend dilithium on.
    Are you suggesting people don't want the ability to skip over admiralty projects, or endeavor missions, they don't want, and wouldn't spend diltihum on them if they had to, like the above examples?

    Talking about twisting reality when you can't even remain consistent in your own argument.

    You just keep missing the exceedingly simple, glaringly obvious point:

    None of your examples are them taking away things that people already got for free.

    That is the entire point. That is the entire reason people are upset about this. That is the thing you just keep missing.
    That is precisely what is wrong. Due to this change I lost over 200 tokens that I spent many, many hours earning. Now I am expected to pay something like 500k+ Dilithium to buyback those tokens that I had already spent hours earning.

    The problem isn't allowing us to buy tokens for Dilithium that is great. The problem is removing the tokens and making us buy them. It wouldn't even of been as bad if they only got rid of new tokens it was removing old earned tokens that is flat out wrong. Although I guess some people would still be upset about new tokens for valid reasons.


    Wait, they got removed from existing, saved-up boxes too? Très uncool.
    That's what they said it has been removed from the loot table so existing box's lose them. Which is why so many players are upset.

    well, if you havent opened them by now, obviously you didnt need/want whats inside.


    You don't believe in savings accounts then, do you? Prudent ppl tend ro put stuff aside for a rainy day.

    sure i do. but a token that is absolutely free for doing a 5-15 min mission that has NO cash value is an odd comparison to use.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,733 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    rattler2 wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    What? Of course you can estimate within a reasonable factor. There was a pretty good drop rate and on average with large sample size you pretty much always got the same amount of tokens within a reasonable variance. RNG does allow you to say with this many box's on average you will get this many tokens with a variance of x tokens.

    But you cannot guarantee it. You cannot say for an absolute fact that you have that many. While yes by the law of averages you can estimate an amount if you know the numbers, but again... the nature of RNG still makes it random because it is a dice roll on each and every box. So you actually do have a chance of either getting more, less, or the highly unlikely non at all.

    The only fact with those boxes is that you have x number of boxes. What is in those boxes is still up to RNG upon opening said boxes.

    And as someone with terrible E rank luck... I know that RNG can be a PITA.
    The nature of RNG makes it random within a set variance. One cannot guarantee the precise number of tokens you will get but one can be 99% sure they will normally get x amount of tokens within a set variance out of Y amount of box's. I am not saying I lost precisely x amount of tokens. I am saying x amount of tokens is within the typical random variance of the amount of tokens you get out of the amount of box's I opened. Bar some once in a muti life time anomaly there is no way I would have got under 50 or even under 100 tokens given the amount of box's I opened.
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 4,143 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    What? Of course you can estimate within a reasonable factor. There was a pretty good drop rate and on average with large sample size you pretty much always got the same amount of tokens within a reasonable variance. RNG does allow you to say with this many box's on average you will get this many tokens with a variance of x tokens.

    But you cannot guarantee it. You cannot say for an absolute fact that you have that many. While yes by the law of averages you can estimate an amount if you know the numbers, but again... the nature of RNG still makes it random because it is a dice roll on each and every box. So you actually do have a chance of either getting more, less, or the highly unlikely non at all.

    The only fact with those boxes is that you have x number of boxes. What is in those boxes is still up to RNG upon opening said boxes.

    And as someone with terrible E rank luck... I know that RNG can be a PITA.
    The nature of RNG makes it random within a set variance. One cannot guarantee the precise number of tokens you will get but one can be 99% sure they will normally get x amount of tokens within a set variance out of Y amount of box's. I am not saying I lost precisely x amount of tokens. I am saying x amount of tokens is within the typical random variance of the amount of tokens you get out of the amount of box's I opened. Bar some once in a muti life time anomaly there is no way I would have got under 50 or even under 100 tokens given the amount of box's I opened.

    your saying one cant guarantee a precise number, yet you are 99% sure you would have gotten over 50 to 100 tokens.
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 4,143 Arc User
    how about they cap everyone out at 50 free rerolls and keep the system in place for dil reroll tokens. (for the endevs - not sure about admirality ones)
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