> @mrlostsoul#1950 said:
> I don't like Disco, the new movies, and ST Pic. I don't think it's canon. I don't think CBS can just rubber stamp whatever they want and call it canon. It doesn't matter if they own the property or not. I don't like STO making so many changes for Disco or ST Pic fans. Does CBS have a right to make changes sure. If you think CBS makes canon, great, can anyone tell me the season and episode number, where Spock wears the helmet with the flashing red light and siren sound?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The transition between TOS and STNG was better because Gene was involved. It made more sense from the improvement of technology, to redefining alliances. The transition between STNG, Voy, DS9, and Disco and ST Pic, was a bad tradition. It rewrites allot. I just think if they based it 100 years into the future from Janeway, it would have worked.
>
> If you like Disco and ST Pic, great, good for you. I wish STO, which is very different from canon, would have done a better job to introduce it. I just wished they hadn't changed the Star Trek we know and like.
>
> If I sound like I'm whining, I have a right as a Star Trek fan, I'm a lifetime member, and I joined because of TOS, STNG, Voy, DS9, and the movies.
>
> Will my opinion change anything, no. With modern reboots, I think allot of fan loved content in any/every franchise is being made mediocre. I'm just disappointed. Maybe if Arc and Dev would have gone further to better merge new poorly created content to existing Star Trek, it would have done what Jar Jar Abrams and Alex Kurtzman couldn't do.
>
> I LOVE!!!!! what STO did with the Jem'Hadar story arch, and that wasn't canon. It merged existing content with new content, without redrawing and rebooting old content. I wish more episodes were like that. Dev need to get a raise for that story arc.
>
> About this new story arc with the Klingons, it would have made more sense that Martok would have replaced J'mpok as Chancellor. It fits better with the characters. He would keep the Alliance better between the Fed, KDF, and Republic. Sorry, I can't do the new Klingon story so I don't know how it ends.
>
> Isn't anyone out there tired of rebooted franchises or content? Star Trek or Star Wars is not Shakespeare. But Shakespeare was only entertaining crowds. He never intended it to become literature. And though Shakespeare plays have been adapted many times, it's never been rewritten, as I recall. Maybe that's why they will last forever.
Shakespeare has been rewritten though. West Side Story is Romeo and Juliet set in New York involving street gangs. Many people consider Forbidden Planet The Tempest in space.
I honestly believe Star Trek needs a back to formula reboot. A proper one. I love TOS but as we keep adding years to the calendar it begins to look less and less futuristic. I am typing this out on my cellphone, which makes everything in TOS look dated. I just don’t know why modern tv has to be held to the style of a 60’s tv show on a shoestring budget. Can you imagine if Christopher Nolan went to WB to make a Batman film and WB said yes but it has to look and be in continuity with the Adam West show?
I would LOVE an Adam West Star Trek reboot. The campery, the well-written stories of original TOS. When we had the whole K-7 and old school arc, I loved it! I'd much rather see a show now using the buttons and switches and "old" technology, because everyone else using holograms and 3D screens and I the only one who's sick to the back teeth of them? Finally give me a Sulu series even, with the mid panels!
There's something more reliable about a button or a switch...that's why the Delta Flyer was such a good little ship, because it had actual physical controls in the 24th Century. And don't get me started on my hope, prayer and thread about a Captain Proton arc...
Would an “Adam West type Star Trek show” survive on a streaming platform? Would the majority of Trek fans accept it? Would it attract non-trek fans?
Does Discovery? TOS/TNG/VOY/DS9 fans that I know...don't rate it. And I also know non-Trekkies who've given it a try and...oh dear. Trek of the present day is hitting VERY few g-spots, so I would say that radical action is required.
They need to drop the seriousness, the darkness, the depression, the violence, the lack of character development, the contrived storylines...at the moment, I genuinely don't know of anything that Discovery is doing well.
> @mrlostsoul#1950 said:
> I don't like Disco, the new movies, and ST Pic. I don't think it's canon. I don't think CBS can just rubber stamp whatever they want and call it canon. It doesn't matter if they own the property or not. I don't like STO making so many changes for Disco or ST Pic fans. Does CBS have a right to make changes sure. If you think CBS makes canon, great, can anyone tell me the season and episode number, where Spock wears the helmet with the flashing red light and siren sound?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The transition between TOS and STNG was better because Gene was involved. It made more sense from the improvement of technology, to redefining alliances. The transition between STNG, Voy, DS9, and Disco and ST Pic, was a bad tradition. It rewrites allot. I just think if they based it 100 years into the future from Janeway, it would have worked.
>
> If you like Disco and ST Pic, great, good for you. I wish STO, which is very different from canon, would have done a better job to introduce it. I just wished they hadn't changed the Star Trek we know and like.
>
> If I sound like I'm whining, I have a right as a Star Trek fan, I'm a lifetime member, and I joined because of TOS, STNG, Voy, DS9, and the movies.
>
> Will my opinion change anything, no. With modern reboots, I think allot of fan loved content in any/every franchise is being made mediocre. I'm just disappointed. Maybe if Arc and Dev would have gone further to better merge new poorly created content to existing Star Trek, it would have done what Jar Jar Abrams and Alex Kurtzman couldn't do.
>
> I LOVE!!!!! what STO did with the Jem'Hadar story arch, and that wasn't canon. It merged existing content with new content, without redrawing and rebooting old content. I wish more episodes were like that. Dev need to get a raise for that story arc.
>
> About this new story arc with the Klingons, it would have made more sense that Martok would have replaced J'mpok as Chancellor. It fits better with the characters. He would keep the Alliance better between the Fed, KDF, and Republic. Sorry, I can't do the new Klingon story so I don't know how it ends.
>
> Isn't anyone out there tired of rebooted franchises or content? Star Trek or Star Wars is not Shakespeare. But Shakespeare was only entertaining crowds. He never intended it to become literature. And though Shakespeare plays have been adapted many times, it's never been rewritten, as I recall. Maybe that's why they will last forever.
Shakespeare has been rewritten though. West Side Story is Romeo and Juliet set in New York involving street gangs. Many people consider Forbidden Planet The Tempest in space.
I honestly believe Star Trek needs a back to formula reboot. A proper one. I love TOS but as we keep adding years to the calendar it begins to look less and less futuristic. I am typing this out on my cellphone, which makes everything in TOS look dated. I just don’t know why modern tv has to be held to the style of a 60’s tv show on a shoestring budget. Can you imagine if Christopher Nolan went to WB to make a Batman film and WB said yes but it has to look and be in continuity with the Adam West show?
I would LOVE an Adam West Star Trek reboot. The campery, the well-written stories of original TOS. When we had the whole K-7 and old school arc, I loved it! I'd much rather see a show now using the buttons and switches and "old" technology, because everyone else using holograms and 3D screens and I the only one who's sick to the back teeth of them? Finally give me a Sulu series even, with the mid panels!
There's something more reliable about a button or a switch...that's why the Delta Flyer was such a good little ship, because it had actual physical controls in the 24th Century. And don't get me started on my hope, prayer and thread about a Captain Proton arc...
Would an “Adam West type Star Trek show” survive on a streaming platform? Would the majority of Trek fans accept it? Would it attract non-trek fans?
Does Discovery? TOS/TNG/VOY/DS9 fans that I know...don't rate it. And I also know non-Trekkies who've given it a try and...oh dear. Trek of the present day is hitting VERY few g-spots, so I would say that radical action is required.
They need to drop the seriousness, the darkness, the depression, the violence, the lack of character development, the contrived storylines...at the moment, I genuinely don't know of anything that Discovery is doing well.
The only real (TM) proof that we have that Discovery is working for CBS (Now Paramount+) is that they keep renewing it and they keep giving Alex Kurtzman more work. I know know there is a vocal number of Trek fans that don’t like Disco or Picard of Lower Decks but my question is…are they the Majority or the Minority? I don’t think anyone here can truly answer that question. I am a TOS/DS9 fan. WOK to UC is the pinnacle of Trek to me. I love Discovery. I think Picard is ok but thats only because I never really liked the character or TNG. What I like about Discovery is that it’s different from the other shows. It’s its own thing within the Star Trek universe. It’s not trying to be TNG-lite of VOY-lite. Discovery is it’s open thing. It’s fine if you dont like it because Star Trek is such a big thing that you can go back and watch TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT if you want to. I do it all the time. Last night I watched Balance of Terror and that’s just a futuristic WW2 Destroyer/Sub battle.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
The animated equivalent of that (Lower Decks) survived one season so far and reportedly they are making another, so apparently it is accepted enough.
Lower Decks is nothing like an Adam West style show. Its far closer to modern animated comedy like Rick and Morty, a sarcastic, pessimistic, negative, look at everything around it.
That old Batman show was more balanced and didn't have anywhere near the self-absorbed negativity and pessimism as Rick and Morty, true, but it was a quirky and often snarky and sarcastic look at both the comics and the wider entertainment industry in general and was swarming with in-jokes that most people nowadays probably don't pick up since they lack the context.
One example of that lack of context is that in Batman Returns the producers decided to make Penguin that weird deformed nutcase from an old-money family and concentrate on the gross-out humor (like the fish scene) because they thought his original concept, that of a stereotypical rough-tempered and cynical (and often Nouveau riche) opera snob funding his excesses with stolen money would not be recognizable by 1990s viewers though it was readily recognizable by viewers in the 1960s because of all the old movies with that stereotype still being shown back then.
Some other ones were ones were subtle references to other things the actor or actress playing a particular character was known for (like Julie Newmar playing the android AF709 (aka Rhoda) in her comedy My Living Doll), or some detail of the plot that spoofed or lampshaded Hollywood or comic clichés of the time, but explaining those in-jokes would take quite a bit of space and are not really important in of themselves.
> @mrlostsoul#1950 said:
> I don't like Disco, the new movies, and ST Pic. I don't think it's canon. I don't think CBS can just rubber stamp whatever they want and call it canon. It doesn't matter if they own the property or not. I don't like STO making so many changes for Disco or ST Pic fans. Does CBS have a right to make changes sure. If you think CBS makes canon, great, can anyone tell me the season and episode number, where Spock wears the helmet with the flashing red light and siren sound?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The transition between TOS and STNG was better because Gene was involved. It made more sense from the improvement of technology, to redefining alliances. The transition between STNG, Voy, DS9, and Disco and ST Pic, was a bad tradition. It rewrites allot. I just think if they based it 100 years into the future from Janeway, it would have worked.
>
> If you like Disco and ST Pic, great, good for you. I wish STO, which is very different from canon, would have done a better job to introduce it. I just wished they hadn't changed the Star Trek we know and like.
>
> If I sound like I'm whining, I have a right as a Star Trek fan, I'm a lifetime member, and I joined because of TOS, STNG, Voy, DS9, and the movies.
>
> Will my opinion change anything, no. With modern reboots, I think allot of fan loved content in any/every franchise is being made mediocre. I'm just disappointed. Maybe if Arc and Dev would have gone further to better merge new poorly created content to existing Star Trek, it would have done what Jar Jar Abrams and Alex Kurtzman couldn't do.
>
> I LOVE!!!!! what STO did with the Jem'Hadar story arch, and that wasn't canon. It merged existing content with new content, without redrawing and rebooting old content. I wish more episodes were like that. Dev need to get a raise for that story arc.
>
> About this new story arc with the Klingons, it would have made more sense that Martok would have replaced J'mpok as Chancellor. It fits better with the characters. He would keep the Alliance better between the Fed, KDF, and Republic. Sorry, I can't do the new Klingon story so I don't know how it ends.
>
> Isn't anyone out there tired of rebooted franchises or content? Star Trek or Star Wars is not Shakespeare. But Shakespeare was only entertaining crowds. He never intended it to become literature. And though Shakespeare plays have been adapted many times, it's never been rewritten, as I recall. Maybe that's why they will last forever.
Shakespeare has been rewritten though. West Side Story is Romeo and Juliet set in New York involving street gangs. Many people consider Forbidden Planet The Tempest in space.
I honestly believe Star Trek needs a back to formula reboot. A proper one. I love TOS but as we keep adding years to the calendar it begins to look less and less futuristic. I am typing this out on my cellphone, which makes everything in TOS look dated. I just don’t know why modern tv has to be held to the style of a 60’s tv show on a shoestring budget. Can you imagine if Christopher Nolan went to WB to make a Batman film and WB said yes but it has to look and be in continuity with the Adam West show?
I would LOVE an Adam West Star Trek reboot. The campery, the well-written stories of original TOS. When we had the whole K-7 and old school arc, I loved it! I'd much rather see a show now using the buttons and switches and "old" technology, because everyone else using holograms and 3D screens and I the only one who's sick to the back teeth of them? Finally give me a Sulu series even, with the mid panels!
There's something more reliable about a button or a switch...that's why the Delta Flyer was such a good little ship, because it had actual physical controls in the 24th Century. And don't get me started on my hope, prayer and thread about a Captain Proton arc...
Would an “Adam West type Star Trek show” survive on a streaming platform? Would the majority of Trek fans accept it? Would it attract non-trek fans?
Does Discovery? TOS/TNG/VOY/DS9 fans that I know...don't rate it. And I also know non-Trekkies who've given it a try and...oh dear. Trek of the present day is hitting VERY few g-spots, so I would say that radical action is required.
They need to drop the seriousness, the darkness, the depression, the violence, the lack of character development, the contrived storylines...at the moment, I genuinely don't know of anything that Discovery is doing well.
The only real (TM) proof that we have that Discovery is working for CBS (Now Paramount+) is that they keep renewing it and they keep giving Alex Kurtzman more work. I know know there is a vocal number of Trek fans that don’t like Disco or Picard of Lower Decks but my question is…are they the Majority or the Minority? I don’t think anyone here can truly answer that question. I am a TOS/DS9 fan. WOK to UC is the pinnacle of Trek to me. I love Discovery. I think Picard is ok but thats only because I never really liked the character or TNG. What I like about Discovery is that it’s different from the other shows. It’s its own thing within the Star Trek universe. It’s not trying to be TNG-lite of VOY-lite. Discovery is it’s open thing. It’s fine if you dont like it because Star Trek is such a big thing that you can go back and watch TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT if you want to. I do it all the time. Last night I watched Balance of Terror and that’s just a futuristic WW2 Destroyer/Sub battle.
According to Numeris, the Canadian equivalent of the Neilson ratings, PIC came in like a lion on the Space channel but quickly fell into lamb territory as it has a significantly steeper and deeper drop in viewership after the pilot than average.
> @phoenixc#0738 said: > That old Batman show was more balanced and didn't have anywhere near the self-absorbed negativity and pessimism as Rick and Morty, true, but it was a quirky and often snarky and sarcastic look at both the comics and the wider entertainment industry in general and was swarming with in-jokes that most people nowadays probably don't pick up since they lack the context. > > One example of that lack of context is that in Batman Returns the producers decided to make Penguin that weird deformed nutcase from an old-money family and concentrate on the gross-out humor (like the fish scene) because they thought his original concept, that of a stereotypical rough-tempered and cynical (and often Nouveau riche) opera snob funding his excesses with stolen money would not be recognizable by 1990s viewers though it was readily recognizable by viewers in the 1960s because of all the old movies with that stereotype still being shown back then. > > Some other ones were ones were subtle references to other things the actor or actress playing a particular character was known for (like Julie Newmar playing the android AF709 (aka Rhoda) in her comedy My Living Doll), or some detail of the plot that spoofed or lampshaded Hollywood or comic clichés of the time, but explaining those in-jokes would take quite a bit of space and are not really important in of themselves. > > > According to Numeris, the Canadian equivalent of the Neilson ratings, PIC came in like a lion on the Space channel but quickly fell into lamb territory as it has a significantly steeper and deeper drop in viewership after the pilot than average.
I believe the changes to Penguin stem more from director Tim Burton’s love of “freaks” more than anything else.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
> @phoenixc#0738 said:
> That old Batman show was more balanced and didn't have anywhere near the self-absorbed negativity and pessimism as Rick and Morty, true, but it was a quirky and often snarky and sarcastic look at both the comics and the wider entertainment industry in general and was swarming with in-jokes that most people nowadays probably don't pick up since they lack the context.
>
> One example of that lack of context is that in Batman Returns the producers decided to make Penguin that weird deformed nutcase from an old-money family and concentrate on the gross-out humor (like the fish scene) because they thought his original concept, that of a stereotypical rough-tempered and cynical (and often Nouveau riche) opera snob funding his excesses with stolen money would not be recognizable by 1990s viewers though it was readily recognizable by viewers in the 1960s because of all the old movies with that stereotype still being shown back then.
>
> Some other ones were ones were subtle references to other things the actor or actress playing a particular character was known for (like Julie Newmar playing the android AF709 (aka Rhoda) in her comedy My Living Doll), or some detail of the plot that spoofed or lampshaded Hollywood or comic clichés of the time, but explaining those in-jokes would take quite a bit of space and are not really important in of themselves.
>
>
> According to Numeris, the Canadian equivalent of the Neilson ratings, PIC came in like a lion on the Space channel but quickly fell into lamb territory as it has a significantly steeper and deeper drop in viewership after the pilot than average.
I believe the changes to Penguin stem more from director Tim Burton’s love of “freaks” more than anything else.
It was probably both really, but the not understanding the stereotype reason was the official line.
Comments
Does Discovery? TOS/TNG/VOY/DS9 fans that I know...don't rate it. And I also know non-Trekkies who've given it a try and...oh dear. Trek of the present day is hitting VERY few g-spots, so I would say that radical action is required.
They need to drop the seriousness, the darkness, the depression, the violence, the lack of character development, the contrived storylines...at the moment, I genuinely don't know of anything that Discovery is doing well.
The only real (TM) proof that we have that Discovery is working for CBS (Now Paramount+) is that they keep renewing it and they keep giving Alex Kurtzman more work. I know know there is a vocal number of Trek fans that don’t like Disco or Picard of Lower Decks but my question is…are they the Majority or the Minority? I don’t think anyone here can truly answer that question. I am a TOS/DS9 fan. WOK to UC is the pinnacle of Trek to me. I love Discovery. I think Picard is ok but thats only because I never really liked the character or TNG. What I like about Discovery is that it’s different from the other shows. It’s its own thing within the Star Trek universe. It’s not trying to be TNG-lite of VOY-lite. Discovery is it’s open thing. It’s fine if you dont like it because Star Trek is such a big thing that you can go back and watch TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT if you want to. I do it all the time. Last night I watched Balance of Terror and that’s just a futuristic WW2 Destroyer/Sub battle.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
That old Batman show was more balanced and didn't have anywhere near the self-absorbed negativity and pessimism as Rick and Morty, true, but it was a quirky and often snarky and sarcastic look at both the comics and the wider entertainment industry in general and was swarming with in-jokes that most people nowadays probably don't pick up since they lack the context.
One example of that lack of context is that in Batman Returns the producers decided to make Penguin that weird deformed nutcase from an old-money family and concentrate on the gross-out humor (like the fish scene) because they thought his original concept, that of a stereotypical rough-tempered and cynical (and often Nouveau riche) opera snob funding his excesses with stolen money would not be recognizable by 1990s viewers though it was readily recognizable by viewers in the 1960s because of all the old movies with that stereotype still being shown back then.
Some other ones were ones were subtle references to other things the actor or actress playing a particular character was known for (like Julie Newmar playing the android AF709 (aka Rhoda) in her comedy My Living Doll), or some detail of the plot that spoofed or lampshaded Hollywood or comic clichés of the time, but explaining those in-jokes would take quite a bit of space and are not really important in of themselves.
According to Numeris, the Canadian equivalent of the Neilson ratings, PIC came in like a lion on the Space channel but quickly fell into lamb territory as it has a significantly steeper and deeper drop in viewership after the pilot than average.
> That old Batman show was more balanced and didn't have anywhere near the self-absorbed negativity and pessimism as Rick and Morty, true, but it was a quirky and often snarky and sarcastic look at both the comics and the wider entertainment industry in general and was swarming with in-jokes that most people nowadays probably don't pick up since they lack the context.
>
> One example of that lack of context is that in Batman Returns the producers decided to make Penguin that weird deformed nutcase from an old-money family and concentrate on the gross-out humor (like the fish scene) because they thought his original concept, that of a stereotypical rough-tempered and cynical (and often Nouveau riche) opera snob funding his excesses with stolen money would not be recognizable by 1990s viewers though it was readily recognizable by viewers in the 1960s because of all the old movies with that stereotype still being shown back then.
>
> Some other ones were ones were subtle references to other things the actor or actress playing a particular character was known for (like Julie Newmar playing the android AF709 (aka Rhoda) in her comedy My Living Doll), or some detail of the plot that spoofed or lampshaded Hollywood or comic clichés of the time, but explaining those in-jokes would take quite a bit of space and are not really important in of themselves.
>
>
> According to Numeris, the Canadian equivalent of the Neilson ratings, PIC came in like a lion on the Space channel but quickly fell into lamb territory as it has a significantly steeper and deeper drop in viewership after the pilot than average.
I believe the changes to Penguin stem more from director Tim Burton’s love of “freaks” more than anything else.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
It was probably both really, but the not understanding the stereotype reason was the official line.