There were some gorgeous unused Defiant designs...
I think some of the concept art got recycled for Defiant variants in game. And one of the designs did evolve into the Nova class in canon.
I remember it well :-)
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,689Community Moderator
edited May 2021
Star Trek has a history of not throwing things away if you think about it. Ship designs that were not used at one point given new life later on. We have two very prominent examples: Nova Class and Crossfield Class.
The Nova was a Defiant concept that had more of a traditional Fed design.
The Crossfield was actually a concept for the Enterprise in a movie before we got the Connie Refit. I think it was called Planet of the Titans. And the study model has actually been seen on screen as background ships in some shots where they wanted some ships, such as in Spacedock in Search for Spock and Surplus Depot Z-15 in TNG, alongside an Excelsior concept.
What I think would be cool is if they retconned in a connection between those two ships and the Crossfield class, maybe as retrofits or non Spore Drive equipped variants. While the Glenn and Discovery were purpose built... what about the Crossfield herself? Were there others of the class that carried out different research?
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Basically - the La Sirena is a heavily-modified Kaplan in the same way the Falcon is a heavily-modified YT-1300.
So it is probably the courier that replaced the obsolete Peregrine that the Maquis refitted for use as their most common raider type.
As for aesthetics, La Sirena and Raven are the same base style, Art Deco, but Raven has overtones of Brutalist style (or could be more of a bare version of the De Stijl branch of Art Deco), probably to convey the idea of a "barebones utility ship" or similar.
I always thought the Raven most resembled a Runabout. And La Sirena...a lot like the Vulcan shuttle from TMP.
Starfleet vessels...Utopia Planetia, a Starbase or something like that. Federation ships...I suppose they could be built anywhere and on any Federation world. We know that members of the Federation also build their own ships, like Spock's Jellyfish, which since Vulcan is a member of the Federation, could be called a Federation ship or just specifically Vulcan.
I wish there was a bit more history behind La Sirena though. When he got it, Rios installed a hologram programme, it came with a holosuite, which isn't a huge deal, because the Ferengi and other traders would sell you one of those.
With Seven's Ranger ship, I'm assuming they were built by the Rangers, a bit like the Marquis did and used anything that was at hand, from probably any and every race. It would have been quite fun if La Sirena had been assembled in the same place, or on the port of call they found Maddox on.
In STO, La Sirena is one of the smallest ships I've ever seen. I suppose I wish it was bigger, a little more traditional and say an evolution of the Aeroshuttle, which is a beautiful design, but big.
There were some gorgeous unused Defiant designs...
True, I am rather partial to the Voyager candidate by Doug Drexler called the Altair class:
The frame's a little light for a ship intended to be caught where the Voyager was.
On the other hand, the next Alliance ship should be something whose major design influences come from Starfleet and Romulan designers, and the Altair-class looks like a good candidate for that, IMO...
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I don't like Disco, the new movies, and ST Pic. I don't think it's canon. I don't think CBS can just rubber stamp whatever they want and call it canon. It doesn't matter if they own the property or not. I don't like STO making so many changes for Disco or ST Pic fans. Does CBS have a right to make changes sure. If you think CBS makes canon, great, can anyone tell me the season and episode number, where Spock wears the helmet with the flashing red light and siren sound?
The transition between TOS and STNG was better because Gene was involved. It made more sense from the improvement of technology, to redefining alliances. The transition between STNG, Voy, DS9, and Disco and ST Pic, was a bad tradition. It rewrites allot. I just think if they based it 100 years into the future from Janeway, it would have worked.
If you like Disco and ST Pic, great, good for you. I wish STO, which is very different from canon, would have done a better job to introduce it. I just wished they hadn't changed the Star Trek we know and like.
If I sound like I'm whining, I have a right as a Star Trek fan, I'm a lifetime member, and I joined because of TOS, STNG, Voy, DS9, and the movies.
Will my opinion change anything, no. With modern reboots, I think allot of fan loved content in any/every franchise is being made mediocre. I'm just disappointed. Maybe if Arc and Dev would have gone further to better merge new poorly created content to existing Star Trek, it would have done what Jar Jar Abrams and Alex Kurtzman couldn't do.
I LOVE!!!!! what STO did with the Jem'Hadar story arch, and that wasn't canon. It merged existing content with new content, without redrawing and rebooting old content. I wish more episodes were like that. Dev need to get a raise for that story arc.
About this new story arc with the Klingons, it would have made more sense that Martok would have replaced J'mpok as Chancellor. It fits better with the characters. He would keep the Alliance better between the Fed, KDF, and Republic. Sorry, I can't do the new Klingon story so I don't know how it ends.
Isn't anyone out there tired of rebooted franchises or content? Star Trek or Star Wars is not Shakespeare. But Shakespeare was only entertaining crowds. He never intended it to become literature. And though Shakespeare plays have been adapted many times, it's never been rewritten, as I recall. Maybe that's why they will last forever.
I don't like Disco, the new movies, and ST Pic. I don't think it's canon. I don't think CBS can just rubber stamp whatever they want and call it canon. It doesn't matter if they own the property or not. I don't like STO making so many changes for Disco or ST Pic fans. Does CBS have a right to make changes sure. If you think CBS makes canon, great, can anyone tell me the season and episode number, where Spock wears the helmet with the flashing red light and siren sound?
The transition between TOS and STNG was better because Gene was involved. It made more sense from the improvement of technology, to redefining alliances. The transition between STNG, Voy, DS9, and Disco and ST Pic, was a bad tradition. It rewrites allot. I just think if they based it 100 years into the future from Janeway, it would have worked.
If you like Disco and ST Pic, great, good for you. I wish STO, which is very different from canon, would have done a better job to introduce it. I just wished they hadn't changed the Star Trek we know and like.
If I sound like I'm whining, I have a right as a Star Trek fan, I'm a lifetime member, and I joined because of TOS, STNG, Voy, DS9, and the movies.
Will my opinion change anything, no. With modern reboots, I think allot of fan loved content in any/every franchise is being made mediocre. I'm just disappointed. Maybe if Arc and Dev would have gone further to better merge new poorly created content to existing Star Trek, it would have done what Jar Jar Abrams and Alex Kurtzman couldn't do.
I LOVE!!!!! what STO did with the Jem'Hadar story arch, and that wasn't canon. It merged existing content with new content, without redrawing and rebooting old content. I wish more episodes were like that. Dev need to get a raise for that story arc.
About this new story arc with the Klingons, it would have made more sense that Martok would have replaced J'mpok as Chancellor. It fits better with the characters. He would keep the Alliance better between the Fed, KDF, and Republic. Sorry, I can't do the new Klingon story so I don't know how it ends.
Isn't anyone out there tired of rebooted franchises or content? Star Trek or Star Wars is not Shakespeare. But Shakespeare was only entertaining crowds. He never intended it to become literature. And though Shakespeare plays have been adapted many times, it's never been rewritten, as I recall. Maybe that's why they will last forever.
The Dominion was the reason I started playing STO and I can still replay those episodes, (despite them having been hidden) with such enjoyment. They're well written, creative, there's LOADS to do and at the time, the rewards were terrific.
That's why it's so tough at the moment...there's nothing to make me want to replay the new episodes. It's not just because of my dislike of Discovery...but maybe it is, because I don't think Discovery is written or produced any better than what STO is producing at the moment.
STO used to feel like such a continuation of the Star Trek we all knew and loved and I'm sure there are some people who adore Discovery and feel that STO is continuing what they love at it...but do we really have to have it at the expense of what was done so well before Discovery was even a glint in the milkman's eye?
I don't get why some people think that STO is set in it's own continuity, most of it's stuff is taken from canon source materials like the shows and movies, with a tiny bit of beta stuff stuff thrown in to connect the dots, any time a show does something that contradicts the game's lore, the game gets rewritten to better fit in with canon, take Data and Icheb's deaths for instance they were both in the game before Picard retconned their deaths.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I don't think CBS can just rubber stamp whatever they want and call it canon.
Then you're plainly wrong, and can safely be ignored.
If CBS couldn't, then Discovery wouldn't exist.
While I don't want to derail the thread I will point out that 'canon' in regard to fiction started out as a fan term (the Sherlockians coined it from the term used for religious texts as a convenient shorthand to differentiate works by Doyle from those of following writers) and was slowly hijacked by publishers and twisted into a more or less synonym for IP rights, so mrlostsoul's statement is right by the original definition though not so much anymore.
There was quite the academic battle over that point about forty years ago or so about whether canon should properly belong to fans (and not have any "enforcement" power btw, just its original usage as a way of organizing and identifying storylines), whether it should be the sole prerogative of the IP holder (the most common current interpretation), or whether a single fictional universe can have multiple canons and belong to both (similar to though not quite what Lucas did with the Star Wars EU) without the concept of canon becoming meaningless in the process (and of course what the whole thing said about society in general).
Anyway, there is definitely bias towards DSC, or anything an IP holder produces, because people tend to want "official" stories more than fan ones even if they don't particularly like where the current IP holder is going with them (which is another weird phenomenon that has been paper bait in cultural studies circles for quite a while), and almost certainly why the term 'canon' has shifted meaning to its current IP holder centric interpretation.
You bring up an interesting point. The IP holder is CBS and they dictate canon. It could happen at some point in the future that it gets bought by another entity and then they dictate canon and not CBS. They could take it in another direction. So essentially, canon in regards to Star Trek becomes a more fluid subject, depending who is the IP holder at that time.
> @mrlostsoul#1950 said: > I don't like Disco, the new movies, and ST Pic. I don't think it's canon. I don't think CBS can just rubber stamp whatever they want and call it canon. It doesn't matter if they own the property or not. I don't like STO making so many changes for Disco or ST Pic fans. Does CBS have a right to make changes sure. If you think CBS makes canon, great, can anyone tell me the season and episode number, where Spock wears the helmet with the flashing red light and siren sound? > > > > > > > The transition between TOS and STNG was better because Gene was involved. It made more sense from the improvement of technology, to redefining alliances. The transition between STNG, Voy, DS9, and Disco and ST Pic, was a bad tradition. It rewrites allot. I just think if they based it 100 years into the future from Janeway, it would have worked. > > If you like Disco and ST Pic, great, good for you. I wish STO, which is very different from canon, would have done a better job to introduce it. I just wished they hadn't changed the Star Trek we know and like. > > If I sound like I'm whining, I have a right as a Star Trek fan, I'm a lifetime member, and I joined because of TOS, STNG, Voy, DS9, and the movies. > > Will my opinion change anything, no. With modern reboots, I think allot of fan loved content in any/every franchise is being made mediocre. I'm just disappointed. Maybe if Arc and Dev would have gone further to better merge new poorly created content to existing Star Trek, it would have done what Jar Jar Abrams and Alex Kurtzman couldn't do. > > I LOVE!!!!! what STO did with the Jem'Hadar story arch, and that wasn't canon. It merged existing content with new content, without redrawing and rebooting old content. I wish more episodes were like that. Dev need to get a raise for that story arc. > > About this new story arc with the Klingons, it would have made more sense that Martok would have replaced J'mpok as Chancellor. It fits better with the characters. He would keep the Alliance better between the Fed, KDF, and Republic. Sorry, I can't do the new Klingon story so I don't know how it ends. > > Isn't anyone out there tired of rebooted franchises or content? Star Trek or Star Wars is not Shakespeare. But Shakespeare was only entertaining crowds. He never intended it to become literature. And though Shakespeare plays have been adapted many times, it's never been rewritten, as I recall. Maybe that's why they will last forever.
Shakespeare has been rewritten though. West Side Story is Romeo and Juliet set in New York involving street gangs. Many people consider Forbidden Planet The Tempest in space.
I honestly believe Star Trek needs a back to formula reboot. A proper one. I love TOS but as we keep adding years to the calendar it begins to look less and less futuristic. I am typing this out on my cellphone, which makes everything in TOS look dated. I just don’t know why modern tv has to be held to the style of a 60’s tv show on a shoestring budget. Can you imagine if Christopher Nolan went to WB to make a Batman film and WB said yes but it has to look and be in continuity with the Adam West show?
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Many people consider Forbidden Planet The Tempest in space.
It is, in fact. The names were changed to protect the guilty, but the plot beats are precisely the same, just changed from a mysterious foreign island to a mysterious foreign planet.
Then again, Shakespeare's best stuff was adapted from others - the story of Romeo and Juliet has been knocking around at least since Aristophanes, for instance (and ol' Ari probably swiped it from some long-forgotten Phoenician playwright).
> @mrlostsoul#1950 said:
> I don't like Disco, the new movies, and ST Pic. I don't think it's canon. I don't think CBS can just rubber stamp whatever they want and call it canon. It doesn't matter if they own the property or not. I don't like STO making so many changes for Disco or ST Pic fans. Does CBS have a right to make changes sure. If you think CBS makes canon, great, can anyone tell me the season and episode number, where Spock wears the helmet with the flashing red light and siren sound?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The transition between TOS and STNG was better because Gene was involved. It made more sense from the improvement of technology, to redefining alliances. The transition between STNG, Voy, DS9, and Disco and ST Pic, was a bad tradition. It rewrites allot. I just think if they based it 100 years into the future from Janeway, it would have worked.
>
> If you like Disco and ST Pic, great, good for you. I wish STO, which is very different from canon, would have done a better job to introduce it. I just wished they hadn't changed the Star Trek we know and like.
>
> If I sound like I'm whining, I have a right as a Star Trek fan, I'm a lifetime member, and I joined because of TOS, STNG, Voy, DS9, and the movies.
>
> Will my opinion change anything, no. With modern reboots, I think allot of fan loved content in any/every franchise is being made mediocre. I'm just disappointed. Maybe if Arc and Dev would have gone further to better merge new poorly created content to existing Star Trek, it would have done what Jar Jar Abrams and Alex Kurtzman couldn't do.
>
> I LOVE!!!!! what STO did with the Jem'Hadar story arch, and that wasn't canon. It merged existing content with new content, without redrawing and rebooting old content. I wish more episodes were like that. Dev need to get a raise for that story arc.
>
> About this new story arc with the Klingons, it would have made more sense that Martok would have replaced J'mpok as Chancellor. It fits better with the characters. He would keep the Alliance better between the Fed, KDF, and Republic. Sorry, I can't do the new Klingon story so I don't know how it ends.
>
> Isn't anyone out there tired of rebooted franchises or content? Star Trek or Star Wars is not Shakespeare. But Shakespeare was only entertaining crowds. He never intended it to become literature. And though Shakespeare plays have been adapted many times, it's never been rewritten, as I recall. Maybe that's why they will last forever.
Shakespeare has been rewritten though. West Side Story is Romeo and Juliet set in New York involving street gangs. Many people consider Forbidden Planet The Tempest in space.
I honestly believe Star Trek needs a back to formula reboot. A proper one. I love TOS but as we keep adding years to the calendar it begins to look less and less futuristic. I am typing this out on my cellphone, which makes everything in TOS look dated. I just don’t know why modern tv has to be held to the style of a 60’s tv show on a shoestring budget. Can you imagine if Christopher Nolan went to WB to make a Batman film and WB said yes but it has to look and be in continuity with the Adam West show?
I would LOVE an Adam West Star Trek reboot. The campery, the well-written stories of original TOS. When we had the whole K-7 and old school arc, I loved it! I'd much rather see a show now using the buttons and switches and "old" technology, because everyone else using holograms and 3D screens and I the only one who's sick to the back teeth of them? Finally give me a Sulu series even, with the mid panels!
There's something more reliable about a button or a switch...that's why the Delta Flyer was such a good little ship, because it had actual physical controls in the 24th Century. And don't get me started on my hope, prayer and thread about a Captain Proton arc...
> @mrlostsoul#1950 said:
> I don't like Disco, the new movies, and ST Pic. I don't think it's canon. I don't think CBS can just rubber stamp whatever they want and call it canon. It doesn't matter if they own the property or not. I don't like STO making so many changes for Disco or ST Pic fans. Does CBS have a right to make changes sure. If you think CBS makes canon, great, can anyone tell me the season and episode number, where Spock wears the helmet with the flashing red light and siren sound?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The transition between TOS and STNG was better because Gene was involved. It made more sense from the improvement of technology, to redefining alliances. The transition between STNG, Voy, DS9, and Disco and ST Pic, was a bad tradition. It rewrites allot. I just think if they based it 100 years into the future from Janeway, it would have worked.
>
> If you like Disco and ST Pic, great, good for you. I wish STO, which is very different from canon, would have done a better job to introduce it. I just wished they hadn't changed the Star Trek we know and like.
>
> If I sound like I'm whining, I have a right as a Star Trek fan, I'm a lifetime member, and I joined because of TOS, STNG, Voy, DS9, and the movies.
>
> Will my opinion change anything, no. With modern reboots, I think allot of fan loved content in any/every franchise is being made mediocre. I'm just disappointed. Maybe if Arc and Dev would have gone further to better merge new poorly created content to existing Star Trek, it would have done what Jar Jar Abrams and Alex Kurtzman couldn't do.
>
> I LOVE!!!!! what STO did with the Jem'Hadar story arch, and that wasn't canon. It merged existing content with new content, without redrawing and rebooting old content. I wish more episodes were like that. Dev need to get a raise for that story arc.
>
> About this new story arc with the Klingons, it would have made more sense that Martok would have replaced J'mpok as Chancellor. It fits better with the characters. He would keep the Alliance better between the Fed, KDF, and Republic. Sorry, I can't do the new Klingon story so I don't know how it ends.
>
> Isn't anyone out there tired of rebooted franchises or content? Star Trek or Star Wars is not Shakespeare. But Shakespeare was only entertaining crowds. He never intended it to become literature. And though Shakespeare plays have been adapted many times, it's never been rewritten, as I recall. Maybe that's why they will last forever.
Shakespeare has been rewritten though. West Side Story is Romeo and Juliet set in New York involving street gangs. Many people consider Forbidden Planet The Tempest in space.
I honestly believe Star Trek needs a back to formula reboot. A proper one. I love TOS but as we keep adding years to the calendar it begins to look less and less futuristic. I am typing this out on my cellphone, which makes everything in TOS look dated. I just don’t know why modern tv has to be held to the style of a 60’s tv show on a shoestring budget. Can you imagine if Christopher Nolan went to WB to make a Batman film and WB said yes but it has to look and be in continuity with the Adam West show?
What is it about typing that on your cell phone that makes TOS look dated? When was the last time you called Mars on it? You could do that with a TOS communicator if there was anyone there with another communicator to talk to.
They don't use cell phones in TOS (cell phones have a maximum range of a few miles at best, and are completely dependent on an earthbound relay network), they use what you could call subspace sat phones that have a range of at least an AU or so (judging by some of the scenes they used them in), sophisticated voice recognition and translation, and links to whatever tricorders, portable laboratories, etc. that a landing party might have with them, and are more or less the size of one of today's flip phones.
You are not even comparing apples and oranges, even though it looks like a flip phone that TOS communicator packs in a building's worth of equipment and antennas, comparing a TOS communicator with the most advanced smartphone on the market today is like comparing a modern supercomputer with tally marks on a wax tablet.
Also, TOS didn't have a "shoestring budget", the budget was higher than any other hour long series of the time. The reason they were always short on funds was because most of the budget had to go to the movie grade special effects that went into each episode (several times they had to literally hire every SFX house in Hollywood at the same time to stay on schedule). Like DSC today they did not skimp on the SFX, the difference is that they did not rely on them to carry the story the way DSC does and leaned more on the drama instead.
The Batman thing is a completely different thing altogether. The West Batman was a spoof, not a serious attempt at doing a Batman story because at the time Hollywood just could not do anything like that in a serious way without people laughing at it anyway because of the low budget serials that tried to do it in the 1940s and '50s and generally botched (though there were a few good movies that pulled it off to some extent but they were rare). People by that point just did not expect superhero flicks to be anything but silly schlock after two decades of it aimed at kids and little else.
Then there is the screwy notion that in order for something to look advanced that it has to look like every other science fiction show on TV today, that it cannot have anything unique or it "looks goofy". Or that somehow Star Trek "looks like the 1960s". The people who say that know the show was made back then so of course they see "the 1960s" because that is what they expect to see, and they just cannot see past their expectation to what is really there.
> @mrlostsoul#1950 said:
> I don't like Disco, the new movies, and ST Pic. I don't think it's canon. I don't think CBS can just rubber stamp whatever they want and call it canon. It doesn't matter if they own the property or not. I don't like STO making so many changes for Disco or ST Pic fans. Does CBS have a right to make changes sure. If you think CBS makes canon, great, can anyone tell me the season and episode number, where Spock wears the helmet with the flashing red light and siren sound?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The transition between TOS and STNG was better because Gene was involved. It made more sense from the improvement of technology, to redefining alliances. The transition between STNG, Voy, DS9, and Disco and ST Pic, was a bad tradition. It rewrites allot. I just think if they based it 100 years into the future from Janeway, it would have worked.
>
> If you like Disco and ST Pic, great, good for you. I wish STO, which is very different from canon, would have done a better job to introduce it. I just wished they hadn't changed the Star Trek we know and like.
>
> If I sound like I'm whining, I have a right as a Star Trek fan, I'm a lifetime member, and I joined because of TOS, STNG, Voy, DS9, and the movies.
>
> Will my opinion change anything, no. With modern reboots, I think allot of fan loved content in any/every franchise is being made mediocre. I'm just disappointed. Maybe if Arc and Dev would have gone further to better merge new poorly created content to existing Star Trek, it would have done what Jar Jar Abrams and Alex Kurtzman couldn't do.
>
> I LOVE!!!!! what STO did with the Jem'Hadar story arch, and that wasn't canon. It merged existing content with new content, without redrawing and rebooting old content. I wish more episodes were like that. Dev need to get a raise for that story arc.
>
> About this new story arc with the Klingons, it would have made more sense that Martok would have replaced J'mpok as Chancellor. It fits better with the characters. He would keep the Alliance better between the Fed, KDF, and Republic. Sorry, I can't do the new Klingon story so I don't know how it ends.
>
> Isn't anyone out there tired of rebooted franchises or content? Star Trek or Star Wars is not Shakespeare. But Shakespeare was only entertaining crowds. He never intended it to become literature. And though Shakespeare plays have been adapted many times, it's never been rewritten, as I recall. Maybe that's why they will last forever.
Shakespeare has been rewritten though. West Side Story is Romeo and Juliet set in New York involving street gangs. Many people consider Forbidden Planet The Tempest in space.
I honestly believe Star Trek needs a back to formula reboot. A proper one. I love TOS but as we keep adding years to the calendar it begins to look less and less futuristic. I am typing this out on my cellphone, which makes everything in TOS look dated. I just don’t know why modern tv has to be held to the style of a 60’s tv show on a shoestring budget. Can you imagine if Christopher Nolan went to WB to make a Batman film and WB said yes but it has to look and be in continuity with the Adam West show?
What is it about typing that on your cell phone that makes TOS look dated? When was the last time you called Mars on it? You could do that with a TOS communicator if there was anyone there with another communicator to talk to.
They don't use cell phones in TOS (cell phones have a maximum range of a few miles at best, and are completely dependent on an earthbound relay network), they use what you could call subspace sat phones that have a range of at least an AU or so (judging by some of the scenes they used them in), sophisticated voice recognition and translation, and links to whatever tricorders, portable laboratories, etc. that a landing party might have with them, and are more or less the size of one of today's flip phones.
You are not even comparing apples and oranges, even though it looks like a flip phone that TOS communicator packs in a building's worth of equipment and antennas, comparing a TOS communicator with the most advanced smartphone on the market today is like comparing a modern supercomputer with tally marks on a wax tablet.
Also, TOS didn't have a "shoestring budget", the budget was higher than any other hour long series of the time. The reason they were always short on funds was because most of the budget had to go to the movie grade special effects that went into each episode (several times they had to literally hire every SFX house in Hollywood at the same time to stay on schedule). Like DSC today they did not skimp on the SFX, the difference is that they did not rely on them to carry the story the way DSC does and leaned more on the drama instead.
The Batman thing is a completely different thing altogether. The West Batman was a spoof, not a serious attempt at doing a Batman story because at the time Hollywood just could not do anything like that in a serious way without people laughing at it anyway because of the low budget serials that tried to do it in the 1940s and '50s and generally botched (though there were a few good movies that pulled it off to some extent but they were rare). People by that point just did not expect superhero flicks to be anything but silly schlock after two decades of it aimed at kids and little else.
Then there is the screwy notion that in order for something to look advanced that it has to look like every other science fiction show on TV today, that it cannot have anything unique or it "looks goofy". Or that somehow Star Trek "looks like the 1960s". The people who say that know the show was made back then so of course they see "the 1960s" because that is what they expect to see, and they just cannot see past their expectation to what is really there.
There's something that I can't help but compare...two single scenes in Voyager and Discovery.
In Voyager, when the ship crashes on the Class L planet in "Timeless", which is still an amazing sight. You get to see everything, it's really well done, etc.
And Discovery, when it crashes on the infectious ice planet...which was dark, dreary and that scene from Timeless just shamed it.
"Better" CGI isn't enough and to be honest, I got so involved in the Voyager storyline that even if someone turns round and say, urgh that looks so cheap and basic in the 90's, then I'd actually laugh, because the CGI in Discovery and that new Superman series, takes me out of the moment.
To be honest, the internals also took me out of the moment. I just enjoyed the Voyager crash and actually, I enjoyed the saucer crash of Generations, which did also include internals, rather than Discovery. I wish I could, but I just can't find anything that, I personally feel, Discovery is doing well.
> @mrlostsoul#1950 said:
> I don't like Disco, the new movies, and ST Pic. I don't think it's canon. I don't think CBS can just rubber stamp whatever they want and call it canon. It doesn't matter if they own the property or not. I don't like STO making so many changes for Disco or ST Pic fans. Does CBS have a right to make changes sure. If you think CBS makes canon, great, can anyone tell me the season and episode number, where Spock wears the helmet with the flashing red light and siren sound?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The transition between TOS and STNG was better because Gene was involved. It made more sense from the improvement of technology, to redefining alliances. The transition between STNG, Voy, DS9, and Disco and ST Pic, was a bad tradition. It rewrites allot. I just think if they based it 100 years into the future from Janeway, it would have worked.
>
> If you like Disco and ST Pic, great, good for you. I wish STO, which is very different from canon, would have done a better job to introduce it. I just wished they hadn't changed the Star Trek we know and like.
>
> If I sound like I'm whining, I have a right as a Star Trek fan, I'm a lifetime member, and I joined because of TOS, STNG, Voy, DS9, and the movies.
>
> Will my opinion change anything, no. With modern reboots, I think allot of fan loved content in any/every franchise is being made mediocre. I'm just disappointed. Maybe if Arc and Dev would have gone further to better merge new poorly created content to existing Star Trek, it would have done what Jar Jar Abrams and Alex Kurtzman couldn't do.
>
> I LOVE!!!!! what STO did with the Jem'Hadar story arch, and that wasn't canon. It merged existing content with new content, without redrawing and rebooting old content. I wish more episodes were like that. Dev need to get a raise for that story arc.
>
> About this new story arc with the Klingons, it would have made more sense that Martok would have replaced J'mpok as Chancellor. It fits better with the characters. He would keep the Alliance better between the Fed, KDF, and Republic. Sorry, I can't do the new Klingon story so I don't know how it ends.
>
> Isn't anyone out there tired of rebooted franchises or content? Star Trek or Star Wars is not Shakespeare. But Shakespeare was only entertaining crowds. He never intended it to become literature. And though Shakespeare plays have been adapted many times, it's never been rewritten, as I recall. Maybe that's why they will last forever.
Shakespeare has been rewritten though. West Side Story is Romeo and Juliet set in New York involving street gangs. Many people consider Forbidden Planet The Tempest in space.
I honestly believe Star Trek needs a back to formula reboot. A proper one. I love TOS but as we keep adding years to the calendar it begins to look less and less futuristic. I am typing this out on my cellphone, which makes everything in TOS look dated. I just don’t know why modern tv has to be held to the style of a 60’s tv show on a shoestring budget. Can you imagine if Christopher Nolan went to WB to make a Batman film and WB said yes but it has to look and be in continuity with the Adam West show?
What is it about typing that on your cell phone that makes TOS look dated? When was the last time you called Mars on it? You could do that with a TOS communicator if there was anyone there with another communicator to talk to.
They don't use cell phones in TOS (cell phones have a maximum range of a few miles at best, and are completely dependent on an earthbound relay network), they use what you could call subspace sat phones that have a range of at least an AU or so (judging by some of the scenes they used them in), sophisticated voice recognition and translation, and links to whatever tricorders, portable laboratories, etc. that a landing party might have with them, and are more or less the size of one of today's flip phones.
You are not even comparing apples and oranges, even though it looks like a flip phone that TOS communicator packs in a building's worth of equipment and antennas, comparing a TOS communicator with the most advanced smartphone on the market today is like comparing a modern supercomputer with tally marks on a wax tablet.
Also, TOS didn't have a "shoestring budget", the budget was higher than any other hour long series of the time. The reason they were always short on funds was because most of the budget had to go to the movie grade special effects that went into each episode (several times they had to literally hire every SFX house in Hollywood at the same time to stay on schedule). Like DSC today they did not skimp on the SFX, the difference is that they did not rely on them to carry the story the way DSC does and leaned more on the drama instead.
The Batman thing is a completely different thing altogether. The West Batman was a spoof, not a serious attempt at doing a Batman story because at the time Hollywood just could not do anything like that in a serious way without people laughing at it anyway because of the low budget serials that tried to do it in the 1940s and '50s and generally botched (though there were a few good movies that pulled it off to some extent but they were rare). People by that point just did not expect superhero flicks to be anything but silly schlock after two decades of it aimed at kids and little else.
Then there is the screwy notion that in order for something to look advanced that it has to look like every other science fiction show on TV today, that it cannot have anything unique or it "looks goofy". Or that somehow Star Trek "looks like the 1960s". The people who say that know the show was made back then so of course they see "the 1960s" because that is what they expect to see, and they just cannot see past their expectation to what is really there.
While my cellphone can’t call Mars (I don’t recall an episode in TOS where they’re using communicators between planets. Though in STID Kirk was able to call Scotty from the edge of Klingon space and reach San Francisco). I was mostly talking about it’s other features. Smartphones are way more advanced than TOS’s communicators. There’s a current smartphone on the market that can register if you’ve been in an accident and call 911. My phone reads my face so that im the only one that can use it. It connects to the internet and to the wealth of human knowledge, cat videos and Star Trek websites. It has a camera that also takes video.I can hold my phone up to a sign in another language and it will translate it into mine (I know there’s a universal translator not sure if it’s part of the communicator.) This is just the tip of the iceberg on how a smartphone outclasses the communicators.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
The universal translator was built into communicators from TNG on - it was a separate piece of technology in the 23rd century...and not all that effective to boot, because they still needed actual linguistic experts (Uhura) and even language manuals (TUC)...and she still TRIBBLE it up.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
> @mrlostsoul#1950 said:
> I don't like Disco, the new movies, and ST Pic. I don't think it's canon. I don't think CBS can just rubber stamp whatever they want and call it canon. It doesn't matter if they own the property or not. I don't like STO making so many changes for Disco or ST Pic fans. Does CBS have a right to make changes sure. If you think CBS makes canon, great, can anyone tell me the season and episode number, where Spock wears the helmet with the flashing red light and siren sound?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The transition between TOS and STNG was better because Gene was involved. It made more sense from the improvement of technology, to redefining alliances. The transition between STNG, Voy, DS9, and Disco and ST Pic, was a bad tradition. It rewrites allot. I just think if they based it 100 years into the future from Janeway, it would have worked.
>
> If you like Disco and ST Pic, great, good for you. I wish STO, which is very different from canon, would have done a better job to introduce it. I just wished they hadn't changed the Star Trek we know and like.
>
> If I sound like I'm whining, I have a right as a Star Trek fan, I'm a lifetime member, and I joined because of TOS, STNG, Voy, DS9, and the movies.
>
> Will my opinion change anything, no. With modern reboots, I think allot of fan loved content in any/every franchise is being made mediocre. I'm just disappointed. Maybe if Arc and Dev would have gone further to better merge new poorly created content to existing Star Trek, it would have done what Jar Jar Abrams and Alex Kurtzman couldn't do.
>
> I LOVE!!!!! what STO did with the Jem'Hadar story arch, and that wasn't canon. It merged existing content with new content, without redrawing and rebooting old content. I wish more episodes were like that. Dev need to get a raise for that story arc.
>
> About this new story arc with the Klingons, it would have made more sense that Martok would have replaced J'mpok as Chancellor. It fits better with the characters. He would keep the Alliance better between the Fed, KDF, and Republic. Sorry, I can't do the new Klingon story so I don't know how it ends.
>
> Isn't anyone out there tired of rebooted franchises or content? Star Trek or Star Wars is not Shakespeare. But Shakespeare was only entertaining crowds. He never intended it to become literature. And though Shakespeare plays have been adapted many times, it's never been rewritten, as I recall. Maybe that's why they will last forever.
Shakespeare has been rewritten though. West Side Story is Romeo and Juliet set in New York involving street gangs. Many people consider Forbidden Planet The Tempest in space.
I honestly believe Star Trek needs a back to formula reboot. A proper one. I love TOS but as we keep adding years to the calendar it begins to look less and less futuristic. I am typing this out on my cellphone, which makes everything in TOS look dated. I just don’t know why modern tv has to be held to the style of a 60’s tv show on a shoestring budget. Can you imagine if Christopher Nolan went to WB to make a Batman film and WB said yes but it has to look and be in continuity with the Adam West show?
I would LOVE an Adam West Star Trek reboot. The campery, the well-written stories of original TOS. When we had the whole K-7 and old school arc, I loved it! I'd much rather see a show now using the buttons and switches and "old" technology, because everyone else using holograms and 3D screens and I the only one who's sick to the back teeth of them? Finally give me a Sulu series even, with the mid panels!
There's something more reliable about a button or a switch...that's why the Delta Flyer was such a good little ship, because it had actual physical controls in the 24th Century. And don't get me started on my hope, prayer and thread about a Captain Proton arc...
Would an “Adam West type Star Trek show” survive on a streaming platform? Would the majority of Trek fans accept it? Would it attract non-trek fans?
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
The universal translator was built into communicators from TNG on - it was a separate piece of technology in the 23rd century...and not all that effective to boot, because they still needed actual linguistic experts (Uhura) and even language manuals (TUC)...and she still TRIBBLE it up.
'We am thy freighter Ursva'
Actually, the basic universal translator was built into the communicator, that is why everyone seemed to speak English (the fact that they did not always have the communicators available, like when aliens take them, was an unfortunate but necessary hand wave). That big flashlight-sized one was the heavy duty model that could handle communications way outside the ability of humanoids to detect at all, and make inferences about highly alien modes of communication in order to translate them.
> @mrlostsoul#1950 said:
> I don't like Disco, the new movies, and ST Pic. I don't think it's canon. I don't think CBS can just rubber stamp whatever they want and call it canon. It doesn't matter if they own the property or not. I don't like STO making so many changes for Disco or ST Pic fans. Does CBS have a right to make changes sure. If you think CBS makes canon, great, can anyone tell me the season and episode number, where Spock wears the helmet with the flashing red light and siren sound?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The transition between TOS and STNG was better because Gene was involved. It made more sense from the improvement of technology, to redefining alliances. The transition between STNG, Voy, DS9, and Disco and ST Pic, was a bad tradition. It rewrites allot. I just think if they based it 100 years into the future from Janeway, it would have worked.
>
> If you like Disco and ST Pic, great, good for you. I wish STO, which is very different from canon, would have done a better job to introduce it. I just wished they hadn't changed the Star Trek we know and like.
>
> If I sound like I'm whining, I have a right as a Star Trek fan, I'm a lifetime member, and I joined because of TOS, STNG, Voy, DS9, and the movies.
>
> Will my opinion change anything, no. With modern reboots, I think allot of fan loved content in any/every franchise is being made mediocre. I'm just disappointed. Maybe if Arc and Dev would have gone further to better merge new poorly created content to existing Star Trek, it would have done what Jar Jar Abrams and Alex Kurtzman couldn't do.
>
> I LOVE!!!!! what STO did with the Jem'Hadar story arch, and that wasn't canon. It merged existing content with new content, without redrawing and rebooting old content. I wish more episodes were like that. Dev need to get a raise for that story arc.
>
> About this new story arc with the Klingons, it would have made more sense that Martok would have replaced J'mpok as Chancellor. It fits better with the characters. He would keep the Alliance better between the Fed, KDF, and Republic. Sorry, I can't do the new Klingon story so I don't know how it ends.
>
> Isn't anyone out there tired of rebooted franchises or content? Star Trek or Star Wars is not Shakespeare. But Shakespeare was only entertaining crowds. He never intended it to become literature. And though Shakespeare plays have been adapted many times, it's never been rewritten, as I recall. Maybe that's why they will last forever.
Shakespeare has been rewritten though. West Side Story is Romeo and Juliet set in New York involving street gangs. Many people consider Forbidden Planet The Tempest in space.
I honestly believe Star Trek needs a back to formula reboot. A proper one. I love TOS but as we keep adding years to the calendar it begins to look less and less futuristic. I am typing this out on my cellphone, which makes everything in TOS look dated. I just don’t know why modern tv has to be held to the style of a 60’s tv show on a shoestring budget. Can you imagine if Christopher Nolan went to WB to make a Batman film and WB said yes but it has to look and be in continuity with the Adam West show?
What is it about typing that on your cell phone that makes TOS look dated? When was the last time you called Mars on it? You could do that with a TOS communicator if there was anyone there with another communicator to talk to.
They don't use cell phones in TOS (cell phones have a maximum range of a few miles at best, and are completely dependent on an earthbound relay network), they use what you could call subspace sat phones that have a range of at least an AU or so (judging by some of the scenes they used them in), sophisticated voice recognition and translation, and links to whatever tricorders, portable laboratories, etc. that a landing party might have with them, and are more or less the size of one of today's flip phones.
You are not even comparing apples and oranges, even though it looks like a flip phone that TOS communicator packs in a building's worth of equipment and antennas, comparing a TOS communicator with the most advanced smartphone on the market today is like comparing a modern supercomputer with tally marks on a wax tablet.
Also, TOS didn't have a "shoestring budget", the budget was higher than any other hour long series of the time. The reason they were always short on funds was because most of the budget had to go to the movie grade special effects that went into each episode (several times they had to literally hire every SFX house in Hollywood at the same time to stay on schedule). Like DSC today they did not skimp on the SFX, the difference is that they did not rely on them to carry the story the way DSC does and leaned more on the drama instead.
The Batman thing is a completely different thing altogether. The West Batman was a spoof, not a serious attempt at doing a Batman story because at the time Hollywood just could not do anything like that in a serious way without people laughing at it anyway because of the low budget serials that tried to do it in the 1940s and '50s and generally botched (though there were a few good movies that pulled it off to some extent but they were rare). People by that point just did not expect superhero flicks to be anything but silly schlock after two decades of it aimed at kids and little else.
Then there is the screwy notion that in order for something to look advanced that it has to look like every other science fiction show on TV today, that it cannot have anything unique or it "looks goofy". Or that somehow Star Trek "looks like the 1960s". The people who say that know the show was made back then so of course they see "the 1960s" because that is what they expect to see, and they just cannot see past their expectation to what is really there.
While my cellphone can’t call Mars (I don’t recall an episode in TOS where they’re using communicators between planets. Though in STID Kirk was able to call Scotty from the edge of Klingon space and reach San Francisco). I was mostly talking about it’s other features. Smartphones are way more advanced than TOS’s communicators. There’s a current smartphone on the market that can register if you’ve been in an accident and call 911. My phone reads my face so that im the only one that can use it. It connects to the internet and to the wealth of human knowledge, cat videos and Star Trek websites. It has a camera that also takes video.I can hold my phone up to a sign in another language and it will translate it into mine (I know there’s a universal translator not sure if it’s part of the communicator.) This is just the tip of the iceberg on how a smartphone outclasses the communicators.
They did sometimes communicate with the ship when it was not in orbit, but no more than a few minutes away, which gives it more than just ground to orbit range but less than whole system range. Considering that in TOS they did not use impulse except when their warp drive was non-functional (or they needed time to civilize the occasional barbarian princess) and their their usual in-system speed was warp 2, estimating it to about an AU or so fits the data reasonably well.
The little round thing in the center of the communicator's panel is a miniature screen similar to the ones that the MARS displays had in The Cage, with a high enough behind-the-plane holographic resolution to see through like looking though a knothole in a fence.
The "hero" version of the prop had a mechanism to show a kind of moiré pattern similar to the way the mainscreen on the bridge did to indicate that it was on standby, but they found that the expense of showing the face of the person the character was talking to was not worth it so they didn't bother to do it (and used the moiré generator in one episode to indicate the communicator was on and transmitting a distress signal, but it was also on in other random scenes though it is hard to spot.
The closest they got to having a need to show the screen active they worked around, but a line in The Enemy Within has Sulu reading off the temperature off it but that he could not read medical data (probably via a link with a tricorder under the blankets) and he thinks the cold (minus 117 degrees, try that with a Samsung and see if it still works) was starting to get to the communicator.
Also, I hate to burst your bubble, but your smartphone is not doing the translations, a server that it sends the audio and visual data to is doing it. That is a function of being on a sophisticated (by today's standards) network, not an intrinsic function of the phone itself.
> @mrlostsoul#1950 said:
> I don't like Disco, the new movies, and ST Pic. I don't think it's canon. I don't think CBS can just rubber stamp whatever they want and call it canon. It doesn't matter if they own the property or not. I don't like STO making so many changes for Disco or ST Pic fans. Does CBS have a right to make changes sure. If you think CBS makes canon, great, can anyone tell me the season and episode number, where Spock wears the helmet with the flashing red light and siren sound?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The transition between TOS and STNG was better because Gene was involved. It made more sense from the improvement of technology, to redefining alliances. The transition between STNG, Voy, DS9, and Disco and ST Pic, was a bad tradition. It rewrites allot. I just think if they based it 100 years into the future from Janeway, it would have worked.
>
> If you like Disco and ST Pic, great, good for you. I wish STO, which is very different from canon, would have done a better job to introduce it. I just wished they hadn't changed the Star Trek we know and like.
>
> If I sound like I'm whining, I have a right as a Star Trek fan, I'm a lifetime member, and I joined because of TOS, STNG, Voy, DS9, and the movies.
>
> Will my opinion change anything, no. With modern reboots, I think allot of fan loved content in any/every franchise is being made mediocre. I'm just disappointed. Maybe if Arc and Dev would have gone further to better merge new poorly created content to existing Star Trek, it would have done what Jar Jar Abrams and Alex Kurtzman couldn't do.
>
> I LOVE!!!!! what STO did with the Jem'Hadar story arch, and that wasn't canon. It merged existing content with new content, without redrawing and rebooting old content. I wish more episodes were like that. Dev need to get a raise for that story arc.
>
> About this new story arc with the Klingons, it would have made more sense that Martok would have replaced J'mpok as Chancellor. It fits better with the characters. He would keep the Alliance better between the Fed, KDF, and Republic. Sorry, I can't do the new Klingon story so I don't know how it ends.
>
> Isn't anyone out there tired of rebooted franchises or content? Star Trek or Star Wars is not Shakespeare. But Shakespeare was only entertaining crowds. He never intended it to become literature. And though Shakespeare plays have been adapted many times, it's never been rewritten, as I recall. Maybe that's why they will last forever.
Shakespeare has been rewritten though. West Side Story is Romeo and Juliet set in New York involving street gangs. Many people consider Forbidden Planet The Tempest in space.
I honestly believe Star Trek needs a back to formula reboot. A proper one. I love TOS but as we keep adding years to the calendar it begins to look less and less futuristic. I am typing this out on my cellphone, which makes everything in TOS look dated. I just don’t know why modern tv has to be held to the style of a 60’s tv show on a shoestring budget. Can you imagine if Christopher Nolan went to WB to make a Batman film and WB said yes but it has to look and be in continuity with the Adam West show?
I would LOVE an Adam West Star Trek reboot. The campery, the well-written stories of original TOS. When we had the whole K-7 and old school arc, I loved it! I'd much rather see a show now using the buttons and switches and "old" technology, because everyone else using holograms and 3D screens and I the only one who's sick to the back teeth of them? Finally give me a Sulu series even, with the mid panels!
There's something more reliable about a button or a switch...that's why the Delta Flyer was such a good little ship, because it had actual physical controls in the 24th Century. And don't get me started on my hope, prayer and thread about a Captain Proton arc...
Would an “Adam West type Star Trek show” survive on a streaming platform? Would the majority of Trek fans accept it? Would it attract non-trek fans?
The animated equivalent of that (Lower Decks) survived one season so far and reportedly they are making another, so apparently it is accepted enough.
> @mrlostsoul#1950 said:
> I don't like Disco, the new movies, and ST Pic. I don't think it's canon. I don't think CBS can just rubber stamp whatever they want and call it canon. It doesn't matter if they own the property or not. I don't like STO making so many changes for Disco or ST Pic fans. Does CBS have a right to make changes sure. If you think CBS makes canon, great, can anyone tell me the season and episode number, where Spock wears the helmet with the flashing red light and siren sound?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The transition between TOS and STNG was better because Gene was involved. It made more sense from the improvement of technology, to redefining alliances. The transition between STNG, Voy, DS9, and Disco and ST Pic, was a bad tradition. It rewrites allot. I just think if they based it 100 years into the future from Janeway, it would have worked.
>
> If you like Disco and ST Pic, great, good for you. I wish STO, which is very different from canon, would have done a better job to introduce it. I just wished they hadn't changed the Star Trek we know and like.
>
> If I sound like I'm whining, I have a right as a Star Trek fan, I'm a lifetime member, and I joined because of TOS, STNG, Voy, DS9, and the movies.
>
> Will my opinion change anything, no. With modern reboots, I think allot of fan loved content in any/every franchise is being made mediocre. I'm just disappointed. Maybe if Arc and Dev would have gone further to better merge new poorly created content to existing Star Trek, it would have done what Jar Jar Abrams and Alex Kurtzman couldn't do.
>
> I LOVE!!!!! what STO did with the Jem'Hadar story arch, and that wasn't canon. It merged existing content with new content, without redrawing and rebooting old content. I wish more episodes were like that. Dev need to get a raise for that story arc.
>
> About this new story arc with the Klingons, it would have made more sense that Martok would have replaced J'mpok as Chancellor. It fits better with the characters. He would keep the Alliance better between the Fed, KDF, and Republic. Sorry, I can't do the new Klingon story so I don't know how it ends.
>
> Isn't anyone out there tired of rebooted franchises or content? Star Trek or Star Wars is not Shakespeare. But Shakespeare was only entertaining crowds. He never intended it to become literature. And though Shakespeare plays have been adapted many times, it's never been rewritten, as I recall. Maybe that's why they will last forever.
Shakespeare has been rewritten though. West Side Story is Romeo and Juliet set in New York involving street gangs. Many people consider Forbidden Planet The Tempest in space.
I honestly believe Star Trek needs a back to formula reboot. A proper one. I love TOS but as we keep adding years to the calendar it begins to look less and less futuristic. I am typing this out on my cellphone, which makes everything in TOS look dated. I just don’t know why modern tv has to be held to the style of a 60’s tv show on a shoestring budget. Can you imagine if Christopher Nolan went to WB to make a Batman film and WB said yes but it has to look and be in continuity with the Adam West show?
I would LOVE an Adam West Star Trek reboot. The campery, the well-written stories of original TOS. When we had the whole K-7 and old school arc, I loved it! I'd much rather see a show now using the buttons and switches and "old" technology, because everyone else using holograms and 3D screens and I the only one who's sick to the back teeth of them? Finally give me a Sulu series even, with the mid panels!
There's something more reliable about a button or a switch...that's why the Delta Flyer was such a good little ship, because it had actual physical controls in the 24th Century. And don't get me started on my hope, prayer and thread about a Captain Proton arc...
Would an “Adam West type Star Trek show” survive on a streaming platform? Would the majority of Trek fans accept it? Would it attract non-trek fans?
Does Discovery? TOS/TNG/VOY/DS9 fans that I know...don't rate it. And I also know non-Trekkies who've given it a try and...oh dear. Trek of the present day is hitting VERY few g-spots, so I would say that radical action is required.
They need to drop the seriousness, the darkness, the depression, the violence, the lack of character development, the contrived storylines...at the moment, I genuinely don't know of anything that Discovery is doing well.
> @mrlostsoul#1950 said:
> I don't like Disco, the new movies, and ST Pic. I don't think it's canon. I don't think CBS can just rubber stamp whatever they want and call it canon. It doesn't matter if they own the property or not. I don't like STO making so many changes for Disco or ST Pic fans. Does CBS have a right to make changes sure. If you think CBS makes canon, great, can anyone tell me the season and episode number, where Spock wears the helmet with the flashing red light and siren sound?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The transition between TOS and STNG was better because Gene was involved. It made more sense from the improvement of technology, to redefining alliances. The transition between STNG, Voy, DS9, and Disco and ST Pic, was a bad tradition. It rewrites allot. I just think if they based it 100 years into the future from Janeway, it would have worked.
>
> If you like Disco and ST Pic, great, good for you. I wish STO, which is very different from canon, would have done a better job to introduce it. I just wished they hadn't changed the Star Trek we know and like.
>
> If I sound like I'm whining, I have a right as a Star Trek fan, I'm a lifetime member, and I joined because of TOS, STNG, Voy, DS9, and the movies.
>
> Will my opinion change anything, no. With modern reboots, I think allot of fan loved content in any/every franchise is being made mediocre. I'm just disappointed. Maybe if Arc and Dev would have gone further to better merge new poorly created content to existing Star Trek, it would have done what Jar Jar Abrams and Alex Kurtzman couldn't do.
>
> I LOVE!!!!! what STO did with the Jem'Hadar story arch, and that wasn't canon. It merged existing content with new content, without redrawing and rebooting old content. I wish more episodes were like that. Dev need to get a raise for that story arc.
>
> About this new story arc with the Klingons, it would have made more sense that Martok would have replaced J'mpok as Chancellor. It fits better with the characters. He would keep the Alliance better between the Fed, KDF, and Republic. Sorry, I can't do the new Klingon story so I don't know how it ends.
>
> Isn't anyone out there tired of rebooted franchises or content? Star Trek or Star Wars is not Shakespeare. But Shakespeare was only entertaining crowds. He never intended it to become literature. And though Shakespeare plays have been adapted many times, it's never been rewritten, as I recall. Maybe that's why they will last forever.
Shakespeare has been rewritten though. West Side Story is Romeo and Juliet set in New York involving street gangs. Many people consider Forbidden Planet The Tempest in space.
I honestly believe Star Trek needs a back to formula reboot. A proper one. I love TOS but as we keep adding years to the calendar it begins to look less and less futuristic. I am typing this out on my cellphone, which makes everything in TOS look dated. I just don’t know why modern tv has to be held to the style of a 60’s tv show on a shoestring budget. Can you imagine if Christopher Nolan went to WB to make a Batman film and WB said yes but it has to look and be in continuity with the Adam West show?
I would LOVE an Adam West Star Trek reboot. The campery, the well-written stories of original TOS. When we had the whole K-7 and old school arc, I loved it! I'd much rather see a show now using the buttons and switches and "old" technology, because everyone else using holograms and 3D screens and I the only one who's sick to the back teeth of them? Finally give me a Sulu series even, with the mid panels!
There's something more reliable about a button or a switch...that's why the Delta Flyer was such a good little ship, because it had actual physical controls in the 24th Century. And don't get me started on my hope, prayer and thread about a Captain Proton arc...
Would an “Adam West type Star Trek show” survive on a streaming platform? Would the majority of Trek fans accept it? Would it attract non-trek fans?
Does Discovery? TOS/TNG/VOY/DS9 fans that I know...don't rate it. And I also know non-Trekkies who've given it a try and...oh dear. Trek of the present day is hitting VERY few g-spots, so I would say that radical action is required.
They need to drop the seriousness, the darkness, the depression, the violence, the lack of character development, the contrived storylines...at the moment, I genuinely don't know of anything that Discovery is doing well.
The only real (TM) proof that we have that Discovery is working for CBS (Now Paramount+) is that they keep renewing it and they keep giving Alex Kurtzman more work. I know know there is a vocal number of Trek fans that don’t like Disco or Picard of Lower Decks but my question is…are they the Majority or the Minority? I don’t think anyone here can truly answer that question. I am a TOS/DS9 fan. WOK to UC is the pinnacle of Trek to me. I love Discovery. I think Picard is ok but thats only because I never really liked the character or TNG. What I like about Discovery is that it’s different from the other shows. It’s its own thing within the Star Trek universe. It’s not trying to be TNG-lite of VOY-lite. Discovery is it’s open thing. It’s fine if you dont like it because Star Trek is such a big thing that you can go back and watch TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT if you want to. I do it all the time. Last night I watched Balance of Terror and that’s just a futuristic WW2 Destroyer/Sub battle.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
The animated equivalent of that (Lower Decks) survived one season so far and reportedly they are making another, so apparently it is accepted enough.
Lower Decks is nothing like an Adam West style show. Its far closer to modern animated comedy like Rick and Morty, a sarcastic, pessimistic, negative, look at everything around it.
That old Batman show was more balanced and didn't have anywhere near the self-absorbed negativity and pessimism as Rick and Morty, true, but it was a quirky and often snarky and sarcastic look at both the comics and the wider entertainment industry in general and was swarming with in-jokes that most people nowadays probably don't pick up since they lack the context.
One example of that lack of context is that in Batman Returns the producers decided to make Penguin that weird deformed nutcase from an old-money family and concentrate on the gross-out humor (like the fish scene) because they thought his original concept, that of a stereotypical rough-tempered and cynical (and often Nouveau riche) opera snob funding his excesses with stolen money would not be recognizable by 1990s viewers though it was readily recognizable by viewers in the 1960s because of all the old movies with that stereotype still being shown back then.
Some other ones were ones were subtle references to other things the actor or actress playing a particular character was known for (like Julie Newmar playing the android AF709 (aka Rhoda) in her comedy My Living Doll), or some detail of the plot that spoofed or lampshaded Hollywood or comic clichés of the time, but explaining those in-jokes would take quite a bit of space and are not really important in of themselves.
> @mrlostsoul#1950 said:
> I don't like Disco, the new movies, and ST Pic. I don't think it's canon. I don't think CBS can just rubber stamp whatever they want and call it canon. It doesn't matter if they own the property or not. I don't like STO making so many changes for Disco or ST Pic fans. Does CBS have a right to make changes sure. If you think CBS makes canon, great, can anyone tell me the season and episode number, where Spock wears the helmet with the flashing red light and siren sound?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The transition between TOS and STNG was better because Gene was involved. It made more sense from the improvement of technology, to redefining alliances. The transition between STNG, Voy, DS9, and Disco and ST Pic, was a bad tradition. It rewrites allot. I just think if they based it 100 years into the future from Janeway, it would have worked.
>
> If you like Disco and ST Pic, great, good for you. I wish STO, which is very different from canon, would have done a better job to introduce it. I just wished they hadn't changed the Star Trek we know and like.
>
> If I sound like I'm whining, I have a right as a Star Trek fan, I'm a lifetime member, and I joined because of TOS, STNG, Voy, DS9, and the movies.
>
> Will my opinion change anything, no. With modern reboots, I think allot of fan loved content in any/every franchise is being made mediocre. I'm just disappointed. Maybe if Arc and Dev would have gone further to better merge new poorly created content to existing Star Trek, it would have done what Jar Jar Abrams and Alex Kurtzman couldn't do.
>
> I LOVE!!!!! what STO did with the Jem'Hadar story arch, and that wasn't canon. It merged existing content with new content, without redrawing and rebooting old content. I wish more episodes were like that. Dev need to get a raise for that story arc.
>
> About this new story arc with the Klingons, it would have made more sense that Martok would have replaced J'mpok as Chancellor. It fits better with the characters. He would keep the Alliance better between the Fed, KDF, and Republic. Sorry, I can't do the new Klingon story so I don't know how it ends.
>
> Isn't anyone out there tired of rebooted franchises or content? Star Trek or Star Wars is not Shakespeare. But Shakespeare was only entertaining crowds. He never intended it to become literature. And though Shakespeare plays have been adapted many times, it's never been rewritten, as I recall. Maybe that's why they will last forever.
Shakespeare has been rewritten though. West Side Story is Romeo and Juliet set in New York involving street gangs. Many people consider Forbidden Planet The Tempest in space.
I honestly believe Star Trek needs a back to formula reboot. A proper one. I love TOS but as we keep adding years to the calendar it begins to look less and less futuristic. I am typing this out on my cellphone, which makes everything in TOS look dated. I just don’t know why modern tv has to be held to the style of a 60’s tv show on a shoestring budget. Can you imagine if Christopher Nolan went to WB to make a Batman film and WB said yes but it has to look and be in continuity with the Adam West show?
I would LOVE an Adam West Star Trek reboot. The campery, the well-written stories of original TOS. When we had the whole K-7 and old school arc, I loved it! I'd much rather see a show now using the buttons and switches and "old" technology, because everyone else using holograms and 3D screens and I the only one who's sick to the back teeth of them? Finally give me a Sulu series even, with the mid panels!
There's something more reliable about a button or a switch...that's why the Delta Flyer was such a good little ship, because it had actual physical controls in the 24th Century. And don't get me started on my hope, prayer and thread about a Captain Proton arc...
Would an “Adam West type Star Trek show” survive on a streaming platform? Would the majority of Trek fans accept it? Would it attract non-trek fans?
Does Discovery? TOS/TNG/VOY/DS9 fans that I know...don't rate it. And I also know non-Trekkies who've given it a try and...oh dear. Trek of the present day is hitting VERY few g-spots, so I would say that radical action is required.
They need to drop the seriousness, the darkness, the depression, the violence, the lack of character development, the contrived storylines...at the moment, I genuinely don't know of anything that Discovery is doing well.
The only real (TM) proof that we have that Discovery is working for CBS (Now Paramount+) is that they keep renewing it and they keep giving Alex Kurtzman more work. I know know there is a vocal number of Trek fans that don’t like Disco or Picard of Lower Decks but my question is…are they the Majority or the Minority? I don’t think anyone here can truly answer that question. I am a TOS/DS9 fan. WOK to UC is the pinnacle of Trek to me. I love Discovery. I think Picard is ok but thats only because I never really liked the character or TNG. What I like about Discovery is that it’s different from the other shows. It’s its own thing within the Star Trek universe. It’s not trying to be TNG-lite of VOY-lite. Discovery is it’s open thing. It’s fine if you dont like it because Star Trek is such a big thing that you can go back and watch TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT if you want to. I do it all the time. Last night I watched Balance of Terror and that’s just a futuristic WW2 Destroyer/Sub battle.
According to Numeris, the Canadian equivalent of the Neilson ratings, PIC came in like a lion on the Space channel but quickly fell into lamb territory as it has a significantly steeper and deeper drop in viewership after the pilot than average.
> @phoenixc#0738 said: > That old Batman show was more balanced and didn't have anywhere near the self-absorbed negativity and pessimism as Rick and Morty, true, but it was a quirky and often snarky and sarcastic look at both the comics and the wider entertainment industry in general and was swarming with in-jokes that most people nowadays probably don't pick up since they lack the context. > > One example of that lack of context is that in Batman Returns the producers decided to make Penguin that weird deformed nutcase from an old-money family and concentrate on the gross-out humor (like the fish scene) because they thought his original concept, that of a stereotypical rough-tempered and cynical (and often Nouveau riche) opera snob funding his excesses with stolen money would not be recognizable by 1990s viewers though it was readily recognizable by viewers in the 1960s because of all the old movies with that stereotype still being shown back then. > > Some other ones were ones were subtle references to other things the actor or actress playing a particular character was known for (like Julie Newmar playing the android AF709 (aka Rhoda) in her comedy My Living Doll), or some detail of the plot that spoofed or lampshaded Hollywood or comic clichés of the time, but explaining those in-jokes would take quite a bit of space and are not really important in of themselves. > > > According to Numeris, the Canadian equivalent of the Neilson ratings, PIC came in like a lion on the Space channel but quickly fell into lamb territory as it has a significantly steeper and deeper drop in viewership after the pilot than average.
I believe the changes to Penguin stem more from director Tim Burton’s love of “freaks” more than anything else.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Comments
I remember it well :-)
The Nova was a Defiant concept that had more of a traditional Fed design.
The Crossfield was actually a concept for the Enterprise in a movie before we got the Connie Refit. I think it was called Planet of the Titans. And the study model has actually been seen on screen as background ships in some shots where they wanted some ships, such as in Spacedock in Search for Spock and Surplus Depot Z-15 in TNG, alongside an Excelsior concept.
What I think would be cool is if they retconned in a connection between those two ships and the Crossfield class, maybe as retrofits or non Spore Drive equipped variants. While the Glenn and Discovery were purpose built... what about the Crossfield herself? Were there others of the class that carried out different research?
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
On the other hand, the next Alliance ship should be something whose major design influences come from Starfleet and Romulan designers, and the Altair-class looks like a good candidate for that, IMO...
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
The transition between TOS and STNG was better because Gene was involved. It made more sense from the improvement of technology, to redefining alliances. The transition between STNG, Voy, DS9, and Disco and ST Pic, was a bad tradition. It rewrites allot. I just think if they based it 100 years into the future from Janeway, it would have worked.
If you like Disco and ST Pic, great, good for you. I wish STO, which is very different from canon, would have done a better job to introduce it. I just wished they hadn't changed the Star Trek we know and like.
If I sound like I'm whining, I have a right as a Star Trek fan, I'm a lifetime member, and I joined because of TOS, STNG, Voy, DS9, and the movies.
Will my opinion change anything, no. With modern reboots, I think allot of fan loved content in any/every franchise is being made mediocre. I'm just disappointed. Maybe if Arc and Dev would have gone further to better merge new poorly created content to existing Star Trek, it would have done what Jar Jar Abrams and Alex Kurtzman couldn't do.
I LOVE!!!!! what STO did with the Jem'Hadar story arch, and that wasn't canon. It merged existing content with new content, without redrawing and rebooting old content. I wish more episodes were like that. Dev need to get a raise for that story arc.
About this new story arc with the Klingons, it would have made more sense that Martok would have replaced J'mpok as Chancellor. It fits better with the characters. He would keep the Alliance better between the Fed, KDF, and Republic. Sorry, I can't do the new Klingon story so I don't know how it ends.
Isn't anyone out there tired of rebooted franchises or content? Star Trek or Star Wars is not Shakespeare. But Shakespeare was only entertaining crowds. He never intended it to become literature. And though Shakespeare plays have been adapted many times, it's never been rewritten, as I recall. Maybe that's why they will last forever.
The Dominion was the reason I started playing STO and I can still replay those episodes, (despite them having been hidden) with such enjoyment. They're well written, creative, there's LOADS to do and at the time, the rewards were terrific.
That's why it's so tough at the moment...there's nothing to make me want to replay the new episodes. It's not just because of my dislike of Discovery...but maybe it is, because I don't think Discovery is written or produced any better than what STO is producing at the moment.
STO used to feel like such a continuation of the Star Trek we all knew and loved and I'm sure there are some people who adore Discovery and feel that STO is continuing what they love at it...but do we really have to have it at the expense of what was done so well before Discovery was even a glint in the milkman's eye?
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
If CBS couldn't, then Discovery wouldn't exist.
While I don't want to derail the thread I will point out that 'canon' in regard to fiction started out as a fan term (the Sherlockians coined it from the term used for religious texts as a convenient shorthand to differentiate works by Doyle from those of following writers) and was slowly hijacked by publishers and twisted into a more or less synonym for IP rights, so mrlostsoul's statement is right by the original definition though not so much anymore.
There was quite the academic battle over that point about forty years ago or so about whether canon should properly belong to fans (and not have any "enforcement" power btw, just its original usage as a way of organizing and identifying storylines), whether it should be the sole prerogative of the IP holder (the most common current interpretation), or whether a single fictional universe can have multiple canons and belong to both (similar to though not quite what Lucas did with the Star Wars EU) without the concept of canon becoming meaningless in the process (and of course what the whole thing said about society in general).
Anyway, there is definitely bias towards DSC, or anything an IP holder produces, because people tend to want "official" stories more than fan ones even if they don't particularly like where the current IP holder is going with them (which is another weird phenomenon that has been paper bait in cultural studies circles for quite a while), and almost certainly why the term 'canon' has shifted meaning to its current IP holder centric interpretation.
> I don't like Disco, the new movies, and ST Pic. I don't think it's canon. I don't think CBS can just rubber stamp whatever they want and call it canon. It doesn't matter if they own the property or not. I don't like STO making so many changes for Disco or ST Pic fans. Does CBS have a right to make changes sure. If you think CBS makes canon, great, can anyone tell me the season and episode number, where Spock wears the helmet with the flashing red light and siren sound?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The transition between TOS and STNG was better because Gene was involved. It made more sense from the improvement of technology, to redefining alliances. The transition between STNG, Voy, DS9, and Disco and ST Pic, was a bad tradition. It rewrites allot. I just think if they based it 100 years into the future from Janeway, it would have worked.
>
> If you like Disco and ST Pic, great, good for you. I wish STO, which is very different from canon, would have done a better job to introduce it. I just wished they hadn't changed the Star Trek we know and like.
>
> If I sound like I'm whining, I have a right as a Star Trek fan, I'm a lifetime member, and I joined because of TOS, STNG, Voy, DS9, and the movies.
>
> Will my opinion change anything, no. With modern reboots, I think allot of fan loved content in any/every franchise is being made mediocre. I'm just disappointed. Maybe if Arc and Dev would have gone further to better merge new poorly created content to existing Star Trek, it would have done what Jar Jar Abrams and Alex Kurtzman couldn't do.
>
> I LOVE!!!!! what STO did with the Jem'Hadar story arch, and that wasn't canon. It merged existing content with new content, without redrawing and rebooting old content. I wish more episodes were like that. Dev need to get a raise for that story arc.
>
> About this new story arc with the Klingons, it would have made more sense that Martok would have replaced J'mpok as Chancellor. It fits better with the characters. He would keep the Alliance better between the Fed, KDF, and Republic. Sorry, I can't do the new Klingon story so I don't know how it ends.
>
> Isn't anyone out there tired of rebooted franchises or content? Star Trek or Star Wars is not Shakespeare. But Shakespeare was only entertaining crowds. He never intended it to become literature. And though Shakespeare plays have been adapted many times, it's never been rewritten, as I recall. Maybe that's why they will last forever.
Shakespeare has been rewritten though. West Side Story is Romeo and Juliet set in New York involving street gangs. Many people consider Forbidden Planet The Tempest in space.
I honestly believe Star Trek needs a back to formula reboot. A proper one. I love TOS but as we keep adding years to the calendar it begins to look less and less futuristic. I am typing this out on my cellphone, which makes everything in TOS look dated. I just don’t know why modern tv has to be held to the style of a 60’s tv show on a shoestring budget. Can you imagine if Christopher Nolan went to WB to make a Batman film and WB said yes but it has to look and be in continuity with the Adam West show?
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Then again, Shakespeare's best stuff was adapted from others - the story of Romeo and Juliet has been knocking around at least since Aristophanes, for instance (and ol' Ari probably swiped it from some long-forgotten Phoenician playwright).
I would LOVE an Adam West Star Trek reboot. The campery, the well-written stories of original TOS. When we had the whole K-7 and old school arc, I loved it! I'd much rather see a show now using the buttons and switches and "old" technology, because everyone else using holograms and 3D screens and I the only one who's sick to the back teeth of them? Finally give me a Sulu series even, with the mid panels!
There's something more reliable about a button or a switch...that's why the Delta Flyer was such a good little ship, because it had actual physical controls in the 24th Century. And don't get me started on my hope, prayer and thread about a Captain Proton arc...
What is it about typing that on your cell phone that makes TOS look dated? When was the last time you called Mars on it? You could do that with a TOS communicator if there was anyone there with another communicator to talk to.
They don't use cell phones in TOS (cell phones have a maximum range of a few miles at best, and are completely dependent on an earthbound relay network), they use what you could call subspace sat phones that have a range of at least an AU or so (judging by some of the scenes they used them in), sophisticated voice recognition and translation, and links to whatever tricorders, portable laboratories, etc. that a landing party might have with them, and are more or less the size of one of today's flip phones.
You are not even comparing apples and oranges, even though it looks like a flip phone that TOS communicator packs in a building's worth of equipment and antennas, comparing a TOS communicator with the most advanced smartphone on the market today is like comparing a modern supercomputer with tally marks on a wax tablet.
Also, TOS didn't have a "shoestring budget", the budget was higher than any other hour long series of the time. The reason they were always short on funds was because most of the budget had to go to the movie grade special effects that went into each episode (several times they had to literally hire every SFX house in Hollywood at the same time to stay on schedule). Like DSC today they did not skimp on the SFX, the difference is that they did not rely on them to carry the story the way DSC does and leaned more on the drama instead.
The Batman thing is a completely different thing altogether. The West Batman was a spoof, not a serious attempt at doing a Batman story because at the time Hollywood just could not do anything like that in a serious way without people laughing at it anyway because of the low budget serials that tried to do it in the 1940s and '50s and generally botched (though there were a few good movies that pulled it off to some extent but they were rare). People by that point just did not expect superhero flicks to be anything but silly schlock after two decades of it aimed at kids and little else.
Then there is the screwy notion that in order for something to look advanced that it has to look like every other science fiction show on TV today, that it cannot have anything unique or it "looks goofy". Or that somehow Star Trek "looks like the 1960s". The people who say that know the show was made back then so of course they see "the 1960s" because that is what they expect to see, and they just cannot see past their expectation to what is really there.
There's something that I can't help but compare...two single scenes in Voyager and Discovery.
In Voyager, when the ship crashes on the Class L planet in "Timeless", which is still an amazing sight. You get to see everything, it's really well done, etc.
And Discovery, when it crashes on the infectious ice planet...which was dark, dreary and that scene from Timeless just shamed it.
"Better" CGI isn't enough and to be honest, I got so involved in the Voyager storyline that even if someone turns round and say, urgh that looks so cheap and basic in the 90's, then I'd actually laugh, because the CGI in Discovery and that new Superman series, takes me out of the moment.
While my cellphone can’t call Mars (I don’t recall an episode in TOS where they’re using communicators between planets. Though in STID Kirk was able to call Scotty from the edge of Klingon space and reach San Francisco). I was mostly talking about it’s other features. Smartphones are way more advanced than TOS’s communicators. There’s a current smartphone on the market that can register if you’ve been in an accident and call 911. My phone reads my face so that im the only one that can use it. It connects to the internet and to the wealth of human knowledge, cat videos and Star Trek websites. It has a camera that also takes video.I can hold my phone up to a sign in another language and it will translate it into mine (I know there’s a universal translator not sure if it’s part of the communicator.) This is just the tip of the iceberg on how a smartphone outclasses the communicators.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
'We am thy freighter Ursva'
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Would an “Adam West type Star Trek show” survive on a streaming platform? Would the majority of Trek fans accept it? Would it attract non-trek fans?
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Actually, the basic universal translator was built into the communicator, that is why everyone seemed to speak English (the fact that they did not always have the communicators available, like when aliens take them, was an unfortunate but necessary hand wave). That big flashlight-sized one was the heavy duty model that could handle communications way outside the ability of humanoids to detect at all, and make inferences about highly alien modes of communication in order to translate them.
They did sometimes communicate with the ship when it was not in orbit, but no more than a few minutes away, which gives it more than just ground to orbit range but less than whole system range. Considering that in TOS they did not use impulse except when their warp drive was non-functional (or they needed time to civilize the occasional barbarian princess) and their their usual in-system speed was warp 2, estimating it to about an AU or so fits the data reasonably well.
The little round thing in the center of the communicator's panel is a miniature screen similar to the ones that the MARS displays had in The Cage, with a high enough behind-the-plane holographic resolution to see through like looking though a knothole in a fence.
The "hero" version of the prop had a mechanism to show a kind of moiré pattern similar to the way the mainscreen on the bridge did to indicate that it was on standby, but they found that the expense of showing the face of the person the character was talking to was not worth it so they didn't bother to do it (and used the moiré generator in one episode to indicate the communicator was on and transmitting a distress signal, but it was also on in other random scenes though it is hard to spot.
The closest they got to having a need to show the screen active they worked around, but a line in The Enemy Within has Sulu reading off the temperature off it but that he could not read medical data (probably via a link with a tricorder under the blankets) and he thinks the cold (minus 117 degrees, try that with a Samsung and see if it still works) was starting to get to the communicator.
Also, I hate to burst your bubble, but your smartphone is not doing the translations, a server that it sends the audio and visual data to is doing it. That is a function of being on a sophisticated (by today's standards) network, not an intrinsic function of the phone itself.
The animated equivalent of that (Lower Decks) survived one season so far and reportedly they are making another, so apparently it is accepted enough.
Does Discovery? TOS/TNG/VOY/DS9 fans that I know...don't rate it. And I also know non-Trekkies who've given it a try and...oh dear. Trek of the present day is hitting VERY few g-spots, so I would say that radical action is required.
They need to drop the seriousness, the darkness, the depression, the violence, the lack of character development, the contrived storylines...at the moment, I genuinely don't know of anything that Discovery is doing well.
The only real (TM) proof that we have that Discovery is working for CBS (Now Paramount+) is that they keep renewing it and they keep giving Alex Kurtzman more work. I know know there is a vocal number of Trek fans that don’t like Disco or Picard of Lower Decks but my question is…are they the Majority or the Minority? I don’t think anyone here can truly answer that question. I am a TOS/DS9 fan. WOK to UC is the pinnacle of Trek to me. I love Discovery. I think Picard is ok but thats only because I never really liked the character or TNG. What I like about Discovery is that it’s different from the other shows. It’s its own thing within the Star Trek universe. It’s not trying to be TNG-lite of VOY-lite. Discovery is it’s open thing. It’s fine if you dont like it because Star Trek is such a big thing that you can go back and watch TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT if you want to. I do it all the time. Last night I watched Balance of Terror and that’s just a futuristic WW2 Destroyer/Sub battle.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
That old Batman show was more balanced and didn't have anywhere near the self-absorbed negativity and pessimism as Rick and Morty, true, but it was a quirky and often snarky and sarcastic look at both the comics and the wider entertainment industry in general and was swarming with in-jokes that most people nowadays probably don't pick up since they lack the context.
One example of that lack of context is that in Batman Returns the producers decided to make Penguin that weird deformed nutcase from an old-money family and concentrate on the gross-out humor (like the fish scene) because they thought his original concept, that of a stereotypical rough-tempered and cynical (and often Nouveau riche) opera snob funding his excesses with stolen money would not be recognizable by 1990s viewers though it was readily recognizable by viewers in the 1960s because of all the old movies with that stereotype still being shown back then.
Some other ones were ones were subtle references to other things the actor or actress playing a particular character was known for (like Julie Newmar playing the android AF709 (aka Rhoda) in her comedy My Living Doll), or some detail of the plot that spoofed or lampshaded Hollywood or comic clichés of the time, but explaining those in-jokes would take quite a bit of space and are not really important in of themselves.
According to Numeris, the Canadian equivalent of the Neilson ratings, PIC came in like a lion on the Space channel but quickly fell into lamb territory as it has a significantly steeper and deeper drop in viewership after the pilot than average.
> That old Batman show was more balanced and didn't have anywhere near the self-absorbed negativity and pessimism as Rick and Morty, true, but it was a quirky and often snarky and sarcastic look at both the comics and the wider entertainment industry in general and was swarming with in-jokes that most people nowadays probably don't pick up since they lack the context.
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> One example of that lack of context is that in Batman Returns the producers decided to make Penguin that weird deformed nutcase from an old-money family and concentrate on the gross-out humor (like the fish scene) because they thought his original concept, that of a stereotypical rough-tempered and cynical (and often Nouveau riche) opera snob funding his excesses with stolen money would not be recognizable by 1990s viewers though it was readily recognizable by viewers in the 1960s because of all the old movies with that stereotype still being shown back then.
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> Some other ones were ones were subtle references to other things the actor or actress playing a particular character was known for (like Julie Newmar playing the android AF709 (aka Rhoda) in her comedy My Living Doll), or some detail of the plot that spoofed or lampshaded Hollywood or comic clichés of the time, but explaining those in-jokes would take quite a bit of space and are not really important in of themselves.
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> According to Numeris, the Canadian equivalent of the Neilson ratings, PIC came in like a lion on the Space channel but quickly fell into lamb territory as it has a significantly steeper and deeper drop in viewership after the pilot than average.
I believe the changes to Penguin stem more from director Tim Burton’s love of “freaks” more than anything else.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.