test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Options
Is there a bias towards Discovery?
kayajay
Member Posts: 1,990 Arc User
I'm probably going to get zapped for saying this myself, but I can't help but notice any thread that's at all critical of Discovery gets locked or deleted. And anyone who makes a criticism of the show, even when it's a polite and intelligent reply or comment, gets banned.
I know that Cryptic is at the mercy of CBS and Discovery is CBS' pride and joy, but I do think we should be able to express an opinion, especially if they help to make changes for the better in Discovery.
I know that Cryptic is at the mercy of CBS and Discovery is CBS' pride and joy, but I do think we should be able to express an opinion, especially if they help to make changes for the better in Discovery.
Post edited by rattler2 on
0
Comments
Negative criticism towards discovery is not an issue.
I made some cuz I see the s4 uniforms as a downgrade compared to s2.
I was not modded. The otherwise very strict enforced forum rules do not require you to have a fixed opinion towards any of the shows. You are only supposed to be biased towards DPS around here.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
The ONLY thing that wound me up about DSC was the minority refusing to accept the 'updated visuals' in DSC. If TOS was made now, it would indeed have touchscreens!
The ONLY thing I didn't like about DSC was the Spore Drive, but everything else has been fantastic.
And since DIS is the current Trek, and quite a few people more or less frequently throw literal tantrums over it or content from it transitioning into STO, I'm not surprised to see such threads locked or posts getting redacted.
Exactly I agree, only the IP Holder can dictate what is and what isn't canon, you may not like it but it's still canon until CBS says otherwise.
Really I'd wish we could get Cryptic to do things to try and appeal to everyone, like making the new ST:D ships with alternate stylings that mimic a TNG or TOS era style, for example (mostly too late for that obviously.) The L. Excelsior is an example of doing this, where they have the traditional look of the ship and added a new ST:D inspired look as an option. I think its ugly, but I approve of the way it can appeal to old and new alike.
For S3 ships, they could at least have some optional necks and pylons! Why not?
I'd love a neck. I love my Prometheus mixed with Hestia look, but a neck would be terrific on it. And Voyager with a neck...ooh. It's funny, because when you use the Borg three-piece on the Janeway, the Borg parts give IT a neck :-)
When this show is over and done, and there's something else for CBS Viacom to cast it's CBS Eye on, then we'll be able to be honest about it without so much censure.
I'm sure there'll be a lot of nostalgia from those who liked it, grumbling from those who don't, and forgotten by the rest.
That is absolutely false. The only threads that get locked are the ones where the anti DISO crowd decides they have the right to decide what is and what isn’t ‘Trek’ or what is or is not canon. Those are rightfully locked and absolutely no one has been banned.
One of the biggest problems on this forum is the fact that there are some here that just use ‘gatekeeping’ as a generic accusation to levy against anyone they don’t agree with. It’s absurd.
There is plenty of criticism of Discovery on this forum that hasn’t been moderated or locked. The rants on the other hand, those are usually closed before they can turn into flame wars.. because eventually, they always do.
Gatekeeping - proclaiming what is and is not "real" or "canon" Trek because YOU say so or because (insert long convoluted rant).
Ranting about (not just criticizing) Cryptic, CBS, Paramount, JJ Abrams, that guy at the grocery store who totally disrespected you last week.
People argue calmly about why (something) is wrong in these forums all the time without it being locked. People ask for changes in STO all the time and if it isn't a F.C.T. and they don't start foaming at the mouth their topics don't get locked.
DSC topics probably do get locked more, but that's because they are more likely to be ranting even harder than the anti-JJ-Trek topics of a few years ago, or telling us that "No True Scotty" considers DSC a real Trek (a fallacy).
I personally think many of the S1 ships are ugly and the Klingons were stupid, but I accept that it's canon. I also accept that many people want the ships and want to have a DSC Klingon crew. Their fun is not wrong.
Personally it is a major let-down to have the new Trek stuff take over so much of what Cryptic did so well based on older Trek and their own creativity. But it is keeping the lights on, so I can still enjoy the old stuff, and occasional non-disco content, until such time I have enough and fully move on.
DPS is the devil
If that is what we are calling gatekeeping, then I can only say, "So... what?"
Learning to be skeptical of everything anyone says is part of humanity, especially if they are invoking some kind of authority on the subject.
If you want to hate on something, start your own thread about hating it? or maybe go to a different forum and let people here just enjoy themselves. That's the problem here, people feel this obsessive need to be negative about stuff that other people enjoy. and if you need to be negative about something to enjoy yourself, maybe try therapy?
Ranting is subject to moderation. This is a private forum, not the public square. We have no "right to free speech" here.
Attacking others for enjoying DS9 or Enterprise or DSC is subject to moderation.
Being skeptical is fine, though it is fact that CBS is the sole arbiter of what it canon. You can argue that you wish something was or was not canon or that you think it ought not to be canon but that doesn't change reality. They own the church and CBS is the Space Pope.
Currently, the only thing Trek that is airing is Discovery, Lower Decks, and Prodigy sooner or later (ETA 2021). We already know from recent Dev statements that they're hoping to add in some Lower Deck stuff, but the lion's share of future content is going to mostly be from Discovery. The only none Discovery content they have in mind is finishing up the Terran Empire arc they started with Mirror Leeta.
Next year might be better in terms of possible content besides Discovery; with SNW (ETA 2022), Picard S2 (ETA 2022), S31 (TBA), and the following year supposedly having the 4th Kelvin Movie (ETA 2023).
Lower Decks is considered canon. Prodigy will likely also be considered to be canon.
As for people not liking Discovery... it follows the time tested pattern of not liking the new stuff.
Now... if we look at those same shows...
The main reason we hear so much more about it is because of advancing technology has allowed people to voice their opinions a lot more openly now than they were able to back in 1987 when TNG first came out. And IMO a lot of the same arguments used against Enterprise were recycled for use against Discovery. Almost seemed like the second Discovery came out, Enterprise was forgotten about or just suddenly accepted as alright. Same with the Kelvin Timeline. Second Discovery came out... KT was fine.
Anyways... its not the CONTENT that is being modded, its the ATTITUDE.
For instance there was a thread recently shut down for getting into the old canon argument rut, except that only one person did anything more than mention the word in passing and, while controversial, overall the thread was rather calm and reasoned as far as threads where the traditionalists and Kurtzmanites collide. It had two strikes against it right away though, the title was somewhat demanding and the OP ranted a bit at the start so it did not last long.
That depends on exactly what "If TOS was made now" entails.
If CBS did a TOS remake today then yes, it would almost certainly look like DSC and all the other generic contemporary sci-fi shows. But if on the other hand Roddenberry, Jefferies, and the rest were making it with the production technology and budget of DSC then it would look nothing at all like DSC and really not that much like TOS either. One huge difference would be the lack of transporters, those were done as a creative solution to not having the budget to land the ship or shuttles every episode.
The original fanbase were pushing for the show to return but there really wasn't much sign that Hollywood would do it so instead they went and minutely analyzed every second of film, every anecdote, every scrap of paper and photographs they could get their hands on from inside the production, so a lot is known about how the show was made, why things were done as seen, and what the original concepts were compared to what they could afford to make for the show.
A lot of it is obscure nowadays, and all of it is dismissed by the "only what is shown on TV is canon and nothing else matters" crowd though it does give an idea of what it would have looked like with today's production tech. Some of the highlights were things like:
The older fans who know about those and other details were really hoping at least some of it would be in the brand new Star Trek, but as more and more information and photos leaked from the early DSC production that hope turned to disappointment and frustration. Really, about the only thing that made it in was the touchscreens (which were around in sci-fi novels and whatnot as far back as the 1940s in one form or another), and they just dominated the panels in a generic bland way with nothing of the rest of the control ideas. And Moonves fanning the flames to get free advertising from the fanbase conflict certainly didn't help when it comes to calmly discussing things without triggering flame wars.
It's ok to dislike Disco and post criticisms about it, but gatekeeping in general is not allowed for any topic including Disco. Posts that get modded are usually doing something like claiming Disco "isn't real Trek", isn't canon, or are part of a flame war.
The movie side seems to be on hold...despite a few several announcements in the last 2 months or so. There hasn't been a firmed approval. As memory served, going back mabye 4 years, Paramount let lapse the film IP license to Bad Robot, before the merger.
And although both divisions are under the same roof now, so to speak... each deal to the film & Tv licenses to BR & SH were a separate item, Paramount is clear to do new films under their banner. But there is a major catch.
For Paramount to use any ships, old or new, they must get permission from the CBS side *even though they operate as supposedly as one entity*, to which Secret Hideout has a current contract.
If Paramount does a movie, it means that Bad Robot gets a renewal contract. through Secret Hideout, and honestly, they must tread carefully on avoiding that. They don't want another long-term agreement. And no, this is not discussed out in the open by any major party, it just something that was picked up in snippets, over time.
Okay but here's the thing. Not everyone can be pleased. And that fandoms are a small minority of the audience. The content is not going to ever be perfect catered to what fans want. And that's a good thing. You're never going to love everything. Life is full of disappointments. The solution? You be an adult, accept it for what it is, and either engage with it or don't. But this idea that the people who are making Star Trek have somehow maliciously aggrieved the fans is ridiculous and full of false entitlement. Flame wars are a choice because that all comes to down to people's behavior, which is also a choice.
The problems this forum has is people being disappointed and feeling hateful and instead of just saying "I don't like it" and moving on, they feel the need to spread that hatred on every thread that has to do with something they feel hasn't lived up to their personal expectations. And honestly, those people just bring down the general fandom energy. Because they're trying to convince people that do like it, to hate it too. because they don't want to feel alone in their opinion. but all it does is bring everyone and everything down. If you really need to hate on it, start your own threads. Don't wander into neutral and positive threads with your "this is why it sucks" TRIBBLE. literally no one cares, and no one is here for that.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
That isn't really a reply to what I said though. Again, if Joe Blow comes in here and says ST:TNG isn't canon because X, it doesn't change anything. They can argue till they are blue in the face, but silencing them just tells them they are right and the powers that be are eager to suppress that information and view. Censorship always backfires, always.
Personal attacks aren't a way to make an argument, and I won't argue against moderating them, but I sure seem to get plenty of them from certain persons.
But the point on CBS, while they do get to dictate what canon is or isn't as the IP holder, its also the responsibility of the fans to express their like or dislike if it seems like a really bad decision. CBS can make Star Trek into My Little Pony. That doesn't mean its good for the brand to have magic ponies running the starships.
The issue I see is that taking someone too literally when they say ST:D isn't canon or something, is that you miss the forest for the trees. As we know, it is a nonsensical statement to say that it isn't canon. It is canon, CBS gets to decree that. So if Joe Blow tries to claim otherwise we know immediately he's wrong on that explicit statement.
But what is Joe trying to say, really? Is he actually trying to be the arbiter of canon or is he expressing a more general disdain for the show, a view that it doesn't feel remotely like Star Trek and has only a surface level connection to the rest of the brand? Not everyone is great at distilling their thoughts down to the core and formulating a cogent argument. I went to public school too, and I'm quite sure they've gotten worse since then.
Obviously its also silly to pretend we can read someone's mind, but trying to separate the wheat from the chaff is worthwhile to understand what someone is tryin to say when their first attempt doesn't come out well.
Probably not, but who knows if there's a planet out there with them, and what if Q goes there on vacation, harassing pastel ponies instead of Starship Captains?
(John de Lancie voiced Discord, and since the character is a bit of a zanier version of Q... Discord is Q memes. lol)
Honestly integrating My Little Pony, while viable due ot the sheer number of worlds out there in the galaxy, is the realm of fanfiction. Can be done, and done well, but... still the realm of fanfiction. A realm I know well as a writer.
I respect that people wish to express their opinions. But as stated earlier its HOW its expressed. And I'd have to agree, a lot of people tend to take the "You're either with me or against me", and even take it to the point of "Agree with me or else". Not only that some have taken it to "I don't care what ANYONE says, I'm right and you're wrong", which just escalates the situation even more. And we tend to see these sort of things when the subject of Discovery comes up, which can lead to the opinion of some sort of bias when... there really isn't. Its just a disproportionate number of those kinds of threads tend to focus on that subject.
Its a slippery slope and VERY easy to descend into a flame war. Discovery right now is one of those hot button topics that trigger people. Odds are eventually Discovery will be viewed like Enterprise and Voyager. Has its flaws, but is alright. Just need something new for people to rage against because its new and "not like what came before".
How many times I've heard this....
It's a load of pigeonholing everyone who doesn't like one thing or another with the different shows over the years.
It's a lot like how 'Everyone who said anything negative towards Ghostbusters (2016) are all misogynists.'
Or JJ claiming that anyone who didn't like the Star Wars Sequel trilogy only disliked it because they don't like 'strong women'.
It couldn't possibly be the writing, plots, direction, etc.
TNG: Nostalgia was a huge part of the TV landscape at the time with remakes or attempted continuation of dead series, and most of them were failures. Esp. after Star Trek's Animated Series. The largest issue was going to be a remake/reboot of TOS, rather than be a new series. Until it went on air, very little was said of what to expect.
I was surprised that CBS did not air TNG on their network, which goes to show they didn't have much confidence in the TV show. The station that I watched it was an independent TV station that would end up being bought by Fox. Sports programs regularly pre-empted TNG, which made it harder to watch regularly. Trying to stay up to around 2 or 4 in the morning wasn't an easy feat for a weeknight. By the time DS9 went on air, TNG finally was able to have a regular spot in the schedule with a reasonable time to watch it on the weekend when a game pre-empted it.
What really helped the show from the start was giving it an 80 year jump from TOS. It propelled the storyline, and they were able to avoid (at least most) Canonical Entanglement. It enabled a curiosity in rediscovering the galaxy, and marvel at how much technology progressed since even the movies.
DS9: There were three shows that went on air simultaneously: Star Trek: DS9, Babylon 5, and Seaquest DSV (retitled Seaquest 2032, because of obvious similarity that DSV has with DS9). Out of the three shows, Star Trek: DS9 was the odd one out without a regular air-time. It also suffered the same pre-emption that TNG had in it's early years.
I would have preferred to watch DS9 (I was a fan of Avery Brooks as Hawk from Spenser: For Hire; I liked René Auberjonois in M*A*S*H (as Father John Mulcahy; movie was released before I was born, but I watched it on TV) and Benson), but it was easier to watch Seaquest DSV on a regular basis. Out of the three, I really disliked Babylon 5.
Voyager: With a stable schedule being the flagship program of the then new UPN, it was easier for me to watch it steadily (DS9 was starting to stabilize schedule-wise, but Fox still liked to through in sports-related pre-emptions). It was dragging a bit with the Kazon fixation.
Enterprise: I enjoyed it, except for the lather-time.
Kelvin Timeline: it was the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy of it's time, too much flash not enough bang, style without substance.
Discovery: Much like Kelvin Timeline, except for making it a one person show, with minor secondary characters and extras (at least that's how they were treated in the first season). It had potential, but brush aside the flash, and all that was left was a depressing first season with a brief "Hurrah" tacked on the end.
Picard: I had high hopes for it, but what happened to Icheb and Hugh was a bit much. I wish they were able to give the first season a better sendoff than the copy/paste Romulan and Starfleet ship, cybertentacles that hit rewind when the portal was shut down, and the 300-style 'This is Sparta!!!" kick that Seven did to her Romulan opponent.
How the new shows are remembered, that's also going to be dependent on the viewers, though they'll be ignored in favour of wide brush-strokes.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
For anyone that wonders why these threads get locked, look no further then this example.
Simply put, it's posts like this that remove any hint of civil discussion and plummet threads like this into ruin. Now, this is an obvious attempt to bait someone into an angry reply to get this thread closed, and I am not going to fall for it, just simply pointing it out as an example. This is a common tactic used by those that dislike something but either don't have enough logical reasons to support their argument or are simply incapable of properly representing those ideas on a cohesive manner. When that happens, the easiest way is to just spew vitriol hoping to flare reactions and get the thread shut down.
This tactic usually works.