I see pvp is terrifying you, if you are afraid by wolves don't go to the woods. But there are those who like to do pvp.
It doesn't terrify me and I doubt a fair fight would terrify the person you're responding to either. This doesn't necessarily mean either of us would want a potential match every time we do a system patrol though.
Currently the 'woods' are limited to a handful of systems as it should be as the vast majority of players in STO are PvE.
Why spread the wolves around to what are currently relatively peaceful patrols used by newer, solo, and non-PvP players, so you can engage in non-consensual PvP?
To repeat the message multiple people are trying to send: non-consensual PvP is a non-starter. Period. There has to be choice.
I'm not trying to disrespect what you enjoy to do in-game. I've always advocated for STO to appeal to the broadest audience that's possible. But that respect has got to work both ways. I wish you and your gang the best of luck in getting what you want out of STO as long as it doesn't impact others.
I see pvp is terrifying you, if you are afraid by wolves don't go to the woods. But there are those who like to do pvp.
It doesn't terrify me and I doubt a fair fight would terrify the person you're responding to either. This doesn't necessarily mean either of us would want a potential match every time we do a system patrol though.
Currently the 'woods' are limited to a handful of systems as it should be as the vast majority of players in STO are PvE.
Why spread the wolves around to what are currently relatively peaceful patrols used by newer, solo, and non-PvP players, so you can engage in non-consensual PvP?
To repeat the message multiple people are trying to send: non-consensual PvP is a non-starter. Period. There has to be choice.
I'm not trying to disrespect what you enjoy to do in-game. I've always advocated for STO to appeal to the broadest audience that's possible. But that respect has got to work both ways. I wish you and your gang the best of luck in getting what you want out of STO as long as it doesn't impact others.
All of this. I do not want to be thrown into a PvP match any time I enter a patrol. I don't want to PvP at all, and if the patrols are all taken away and turned into non-consensual PvP zones that will make a lot of people angry.
PvP should be consensual. I don't want my ship TRIBBLE because some other person wants to stroke their e-peen.
Find some other way to entice the devs to incentivize PvP.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
I don't play this game for PvP and anything that will force PvP will put off allot of players. The simple fact is that this game is NOT a pvp game and the devs have made that clear. Sure it has a pvp option but call of duty has a single player option and nobody is going to suggest that cod is a single player game.....
STO is a single player/co-op game and thats how the vast majority of players want it.
I'm gonna share one of my worst and best PvP experiences (worst being in STO and best in Overwatch), the STO example one person invited me seemingly at random to PvP match and tried to steamroll over me, no big for me since I build my ships for survivebility and he couldn't alpha me (in fact I got him once), he tried this couple times before rage-quitting because I wasn't an easy target and in fact gave him a fight instead. In the Overwatch example the match came down to the wire and while my team lost in the end it was still fun because the team was friendly (we were all in voice coms too) and the fight was though and fair.
You see and this might come as surprise to some being the prey for the wolves with no way of changing the situation is not fun for the those who are stuck being prey, especially if the "wolves" cry "no fair" when the "prey" is able to fight back.
This is why I and several others on this thread are so against forced PvP, it's not that we hate or are scared of PvP but rather we don't like being always the prey and never the wolves with the wolves going out of their way to stack the deck so that it's never a fair fight for us and there's nothing for us to "git gud" from after seeing a respawn screen, then a loading screen and then another respawn screen because we were killed while in a loading screen does not teach us anything nor is it fun and that's why I play games, to have fun, I'm old enough that I have neither the time nor the energy to be someone's ego boost.
And if you can't understand any of what was posted in the last few posts then you're either willfully ignorant or you really are looking for more ways to vape unsuspecting non-PvPers.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
For me the worst thing about those people was that they fled in blind panic if anyone with even a remote chance of beating them came near. It wasn't only that they stalked lowbies but their reaction to actual threats showed they were only after ruining the game for others, I would never want that in STO.
when I played WoW a long time ago you would see jerks camping the starting areas and ganking the quest givers. my group tended to check those areas often and/or if we saw in chat someone was griefing we would converge. those level 50 would run like rabbits when they saw a PARTY of 40+ coming at him, but yeah, that was one reason I stopped gaming for a while.
PVP is so horribly broken that no amount of inventive will get most players involved. It needs to be fixed, not incentivized.
And by that I mean... the last time I was in one of those 5v5 PVP queues? I was flying a very tricked out PVE build.... every single slot on the ship filled with gold mk 15 gear, typematched weapons, the works. I got alpha vaped and spawncamped. Did a total of 24k damage (according to the end of queue scoreboard) while all the other players were at half a million or more. Because I was never alive long enough to even fire one full cycle of weapons.
Then I got picked on (via PMs) by one of the people on my OWN team for half an hour afterward because, supposedly, I caused us to lose by having a "trash rainbow" build and needed to "learn shipbuilding"... which they then proceeded to spam me with links to shipbuilding guides (that I was already in compliance with and one of which I wrote).
I then posted here in the forums for advice and the vast majority of the responses were either "git gud" (with no instructions or comments, just the simple directive) or suggesting using traits from lockbox ships, etc, which were far, far beyond my budget (and that is coming from someone who has bought every CStore ship and has access to a maxed fleet) or changing to a cloaking ship (???).
None of that would inspire most players to ever ever even want to dip their toe in ever again.
If PVP was actually competitive - meaning that people who had little or no PVP experience and did not have a specialized PVP-only build could actually survive and have a reasonable chance of victory.... that'd be different. Several years ago (2013-4ish) I used to do 1v1 PVP against my fleet leader for build testing purposes, he had a super tanky Odyssey cruiser build and I'd try to overwhelm his healing/regen/resistances... THAT was fun. Getting alphad and spawncamped such that you spend 80+% percent of the time staring at a respawn counter? No thank you.
it's not just PvP where that griefing happens. I get it in TFOs too. sadly by people who have DPS as part of thier sigs. and they know who they are. Sorry little man who lives in Mommie's basement, but some of us have real jobs and cannot afford to grind/buy 1 million DPS builds.
If you honestly and truly want to expand PVP, do it like SWTOR does and have a separate PVP instance. You transition automatically to a PVE instance, and all targeting of non-NPC is history, Then you have to manually change to the PVP instance, OR have a button to choose, a popup that says you are entering an instance that supports PVP. Join PVP (button) or PVE (button)
And if you can't understand any of what was posted in the last few posts then you're either willfully ignorant or you really are looking for more ways to vape unsuspecting non-PvPers.
Your replies are passive aggressive irritating. I came here to have a friendly discussion and I didn't expect that posting on these forums and sharing few ideas on how to improve PvP will lead me to this kind of a quarrel. For all my time spend in ker'rat ever since came back to STO i never met someone as annoying as you. The narrative that is pushed in here is that they are the nasties, but are they ?
You and rattler2, did you miss what i wrote right after my first post ? It is on record that i consented that converting patrols and forcing pvp on others might not be the best idea and you continue to strawman me.
Well there is that, some people like the single player safe zone private thing.
One thing that can be done is to offer 2 options, your regular private one and also your endeavor shared pvp one, with the second being only available if you are send there by your endeavor tasks.
I am getting the feeling that you are attacking the strawman not only because you yourself do not want to pvp, you also want pvp players not to pvp and die out or be gone or something. If you can't have good time nobody else should eh ?
For me the worst thing about those people was that they fled in blind panic if anyone with even a remote chance of beating them came near. It wasn't only that they stalked lowbies but their reaction to actual threats showed they were only after ruining the game for others, I would never want that in STO.
when I played WoW a long time ago you would see jerks camping the starting areas and ganking the quest givers. my group tended to check those areas often and/or if we saw in chat someone was griefing we would converge. those level 50 would run like rabbits when they saw a PARTY of 40+ coming at him, but yeah, that was one reason I stopped gaming for a while.
I hear ya, my guild ran regular patrols in the Barrens to clear out gankers.
for the sake of pro pvp - why not create more instances, similar in nature to the ones around sector space already...you fly to it, go in, fight and what not. to add to the fun, there will be NPCs flying around as well attacking players. in order to get credit, since it was discussed, you have to stay within the instance for at least 10 mins.
for those that do not desire to partake...all remains the same.
for the poster that mentioned algorithms etc... its been discussed prior about using such metrics, only to be debunked due to the too varied mix and match setups one can have and one can change on a whim. so that falls flat for a basis.
Because that is wasted dev time. That is time that the are not spending on the next story mission. The next queue. The next patrol. The next whatever that will be played instead of the PvP thing that will not.
Gotcha. So the next thing that will captivate most players interests for all of 30 minutes before they log off again not to return for months. Does anyone actually think the current strategy the devs have is working? The PvE queues are mostly dead and the battlezones are buggy and laggy, if not outright dead. Not to mention both the PvE queues and the battlezones are repetitive at this point. New episodes, if they aren't a compilation of patrols, give all of 30 minutes of gameplay.
When season 13 launched, there were over 100 players in the PvP queues at any given time. That was far more than the most popular PvE queue at the time, Crystalline Catastrophe. So yes, the interest in PvP is there. Three years later, I can never get Crystalline Catastrophe to launch, let alone any queue. So will the next story mission get played? Sure, once maybe twice. The next queue? For a month maybe. But will they sustain the game? Nope. Because what is STO's endgame really? I couldn't tell you to be honest. I don't care if PvP gets revamped at this point because I think STO is a lost cause.
By the way, it wasn't only players who killed PvP. A few players wouldn't have been able to hurt all of PvP if we had a competent dev team who knew how to inject some amount of balance into the game. Instead we have hyper-expensive cash grab bundles being injected into the game to give people a shiny new ship or console to use in the same laggy queues and battlezones.
For me the worst thing about those people was that they fled in blind panic if anyone with even a remote chance of beating them came near. It wasn't only that they stalked lowbies but their reaction to actual threats showed they were only after ruining the game for others, I would never want that in STO.
when I played WoW a long time ago you would see jerks camping the starting areas and ganking the quest givers. my group tended to check those areas often and/or if we saw in chat someone was griefing we would converge. those level 50 would run like rabbits when they saw a PARTY of 40+ coming at him, but yeah, that was one reason I stopped gaming for a while.
I've seen level 60s running from a single player that was inside the level range that they had more then the 2% (or what ever it was again) chance of landing an attack on them (in WoW PvP you'll never have a 0% chance of hit even if it's a level 6 player versus a level 60 one, though in PvE after a certain level it's literally impossible to land a hit on an NPC or them to land a hit on you if you're the higher level one).
There is very deep power creep structure, the better items, the better performance and you need everything, and when you can't have everything, you have to get creative in order to compensate.
The current problem in pvp is that players who over stack defenses and escape cards are nearly unkillable and they can escape at will. Watch Omega Figher's latest video, he is ranting that people are escaping him and he cant finish them.
But to me balance is not the issue, even though exitus is 5mil on KDF and 700mil on Fed, and it is one of the best pvp traits in the game, which means team FED is more likely to get stomped by team KDF...
I think if there is a meaningful platform for pvp players to spend time in it, it will grow on its own. Patrol missions are relaxing, speeding your endeavours progress is useful.
I am not trying to be egotist here, maybe give the PvE players their own versions of the patrol perk farm, where they get to see a DPS table in the end that displays the top damage per second performers for the day for that particular system.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,533Community Moderator
You and rattler2, did you miss what i wrote right after my first post ? It is on record that i consented that converting patrols and forcing pvp on others might not be the best idea and you continue to strawman me.
You continue to push it. And EVERY point we make, you disregard.
While I admit I may have missed something in the wall of text due to feeling I'm being put on the defensive by the attitude, The fact remains you have disregarded pretty much everyone's concerns about it being fair, and the fact that it is NOT ok to be steamrolled. The algorythm idea has been floated before, but again not addressed the concerns of how someone can game that system.
I'm willing to have a civil discussion. But it goes both ways. The attitude, intentional or not, is getting people to rally against you rather than foster a constructive discussion. And I have pointed out I am not anti-PvP, which the attitude your giving is trying to paint everyone who disagrees with you as. You conveniently ignored that and are trying to blame us.
Intentional or not, you're coming across as highly confrontational, which gets confrontational in response.
So... with all that out of the way, are you willing to listen to the concerns others have regarding the idea? If so... table is open for discussion. If not... probably best to just quit while you're ahead because its just gonna be more of the same. The very fact we're raising concerns, especially giving specific issues and not just broadstroking or dismissing entirely, should be an indicator that we actually do care.
You and rattler2, did you miss what i wrote right after my first post ? It is on record that i consented that converting patrols and forcing pvp on others might not be the best idea and you continue to strawman me.
You continue to push it. And EVERY point we make, you disregard.
While I admit I may have missed something in the wall of text due to feeling I'm being put on the defensive by the attitude, The fact remains you have disregarded pretty much everyone's concerns about it being fair, and the fact that it is NOT ok to be steamrolled. The algorythm idea has been floated before, but again not addressed the concerns of how someone can game that system.
I'm willing to have a civil discussion. But it goes both ways. The attitude, intentional or not, is getting people to rally against you rather than foster a constructive discussion. And I have pointed out I am not anti-PvP, which the attitude your giving is trying to paint everyone who disagrees with you as. You conveniently ignored that and are trying to blame us.
Intentional or not, you're coming across as highly confrontational, which gets confrontational in response.
So... with all that out of the way, are you willing to listen to the concerns others have regarding the idea? If so... table is open for discussion. If not... probably best to just quit while you're ahead because its just gonna be more of the same. The very fact we're raising concerns, especially giving specific issues and not just broadstroking or dismissing entirely, should be an indicator that we actually do care.
Indeed there's a reason why I gave an example of what I consider to be my best experience in PvP and that reason was to show what I consider to be fun in PvP.
I do not in fact always demand to be the winner, the example I gave as my best experience in fact was a loss for me, but a fair loss, I did my best and it wasn't enough, sure there was room for improvement obviously, in fact I saw several things I could do better.
I here's the thing though, if the match is clearly stacked against me and all avenues for improvement are blocked with "git gud" that's not fun, not for me at least.
vanhyo you may claim to want a civil discussion however your attitude tells a different story and we're gonna react to that attitude since it's what we get.
but again not addressed the concerns of how someone can game that system.
I thought its obvious, if you get downed by 10 different players, something overall is not that good and you are likely to meet players that have similar losing steak. If you down 10 players, obviously whatever you are doing is working and you are matched vs someone with similar success.
Sure, no rating system is perfect and there will probably be that evil villain dude who let others defeat him till he is downrated enough so he can go up again but these cases will be rare and as soon as he starts winning he quickly goes up again.
The character rating needs to be completely hidden and unknown.
In relation to my idea - i think this might not be needed at all, if players are stacking defenses nobody will want to be locked for 15-20mins in a pvp battle instead of finishing the patrol for 2-3min, not to mention that if by chance a third player joins and he focuses on finishing the pat, it will reset the zone and interrupt the fight. So my estimate is that the pvp aspect of it will be rather symbolic, something on the side that rarely ends with a kill. Players for the most part will likely say something to each other if they want to fight it out like "Ready ?", "Ready Go" with few cases of bad manner. This is my estimation, i could be wrong on this, i do not know.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,533Community Moderator
Thank you for being reasonable. I appreciate the change in tone.
As for the honor system... I would have to say that for the most part it is kinda ignored in Ker'rat. While there have been instances of people designating a particular area for duels, the Open PvP elements tend to invite players who are just looking to engage the opposite faction. We have no means of signaling outside of chat that we are looking for a PvP encounter, and some people, at least to my knowledge, actually play the game with the chat window closed. Add to that language barriers as we do have people logging in from other countries like Germany and France, just to name a couple, and it gets more complicated. I know enough French to ask if they can speak English, and to at least get an idea of what is being said at times. My German... I can say the equivelent of "Bless you" if someone sneezes, and thank you.
We would need some kind of flag to indicate players who are open to PvP and to indicate players who are not. But even then we may need to rig something up so that a PvPer doesn't just gank an unsuspecting PvEer.
We would need some kind of flag to indicate players who are open to PvP and to indicate players who are not. But even then we may need to rig something up so that a PvPer doesn't just gank an unsuspecting PvEer.
Simply allow 2 options, lets say endevour tasks send you to Japori, when you arrive at the system it says:
Patrol Japori [Private]
Patrol Japori [Shared PvP]
Depending on the level of danger, the reward system can be slightly adjusted: 800 perk exp for normal, 1000 for advance, 1200 for elite or shared PvP zone (which is always on normal).
And as i mentioned above, the pve players could also get damage-per-second table with all results in that system for the day, other player's statistics can be interesting to know.
Final edit, i know it wrote it elsewhere but it is important
The PvP option shouldn't be available at-will but only if the endevour tasks personally sends you. This is to prevent teams griefing single persons.
I've been suggesting a tiered system for a few years now. For me it's the only way you could make PVP work anymore.
Tier 1 - base tier 1 ships with level appropriate equipment and that's it. You get to pick from any of the basic weapons/consoles/systems but it's only white gear. No Boffs.
Tier 2 - Tier 2 ships with appropriate gear but now you can add basic Boff powers.
Etc. Just add a little bit more to each tier so that it get's a little more complex as you go.
Up to
Tier 6 - anything goes just the same as current PVP.
Each game you get some points based on wins/losses/kills etc. You need 'X' points to go to the next tier, but you don't HAVE to go to the next tier...if you find that Tier 3 or 4 is your sweet spot then you can play at that tier forever.
Maps should be instanced for each tier, a nice big open map with various terrain features (planets, asteroids, structures, black holes, nebulas etc.) and objectives to capture/defend. Then have the same but as a battle royale style map.
Imagine in a battle royale where the game comes down to a connie and a miranda fighting in a nebula.
You're willfully missing the entire point, though... that the problem you are trying to solve (lack of PVP players) is not being caused by a lack of economic incentive or a lack of opportunity. It's being caused by PVP being so broken / imbalanced that new or inexperienced PVP players get ROFLstomped so badly and so routinely that it is actively driving people away.
That however is just part of PvP. Take for example Street Fighter or Overwatch, a noob vs a vet playing the same character will get very different results. In STO you design your move set and that adds yet another layer of challenge. But even using the same build the vet will own the noob.
The only way I've seen games effectively deal with this is player tier rankings. IE each player's win/loss rate is recorded (in some cases this is abstracted as a single number that goes up or down each match). The idea of course is to sort players by approximate skill level. PvP is more fun when not fighting people drastically more powerful than you.
for the sake of pro pvp - why not create more instances, similar in nature to the ones around sector space already...you fly to it, go in, fight and what not. to add to the fun, there will be NPCs flying around as well attacking players. in order to get credit, since it was discussed, you have to stay within the instance for at least 10 mins.
for those that do not desire to partake...all remains the same.
for the poster that mentioned algorithms etc... its been discussed prior about using such metrics, only to be debunked due to the too varied mix and match setups one can have and one can change on a whim. so that falls flat for a basis.
Because that is wasted dev time. That is time that the are not spending on the next story mission. The next queue. The next patrol. The next whatever that will be played instead of the PvP thing that will not.
Gotcha. So the next thing that will captivate most players interests for all of 30 minutes before they log off again not to return for months. Does anyone actually think the current strategy the devs have is working? The PvE queues are mostly dead and the battlezones are buggy and laggy, if not outright dead. Not to mention both the PvE queues and the battlezones are repetitive at this point. New episodes, if they aren't a compilation of patrols, give all of 30 minutes of gameplay.
When season 13 launched, there were over 100 players in the PvP queues at any given time. That was far more than the most popular PvE queue at the time, Crystalline Catastrophe. So yes, the interest in PvP is there. Three years later, I can never get Crystalline Catastrophe to launch, let alone any queue. So will the next story mission get played? Sure, once maybe twice. The next queue? For a month maybe. But will they sustain the game? Nope. Because what is STO's endgame really? I couldn't tell you to be honest. I don't care if PvP gets revamped at this point because I think STO is a lost cause.
By the way, it wasn't only players who killed PvP. A few players wouldn't have been able to hurt all of PvP if we had a competent dev team who knew how to inject some amount of balance into the game. Instead we have hyper-expensive cash grab bundles being injected into the game to give people a shiny new ship or console to use in the same laggy queues and battlezones.
yeah, calling bullsqueeze on that. so I'm calling out. post up that data, please. PvP was on the ropes with LoR, no way were there a hundred in queues to PvP for Escalation.
I think the most correct solution is create a dedicates Instance X for PvP, see once and for all that there are not hundreds, not even tens of players in the instance, and the few that are, are all Red team, circling under their cloaks waiting.
Comments
It doesn't terrify me and I doubt a fair fight would terrify the person you're responding to either. This doesn't necessarily mean either of us would want a potential match every time we do a system patrol though.
Currently the 'woods' are limited to a handful of systems as it should be as the vast majority of players in STO are PvE.
Why spread the wolves around to what are currently relatively peaceful patrols used by newer, solo, and non-PvP players, so you can engage in non-consensual PvP?
To repeat the message multiple people are trying to send: non-consensual PvP is a non-starter. Period. There has to be choice.
I'm not trying to disrespect what you enjoy to do in-game. I've always advocated for STO to appeal to the broadest audience that's possible. But that respect has got to work both ways. I wish you and your gang the best of luck in getting what you want out of STO as long as it doesn't impact others.
All of this. I do not want to be thrown into a PvP match any time I enter a patrol. I don't want to PvP at all, and if the patrols are all taken away and turned into non-consensual PvP zones that will make a lot of people angry.
PvP should be consensual. I don't want my ship TRIBBLE because some other person wants to stroke their e-peen.
Find some other way to entice the devs to incentivize PvP.
STO is a single player/co-op game and thats how the vast majority of players want it.
You see and this might come as surprise to some being the prey for the wolves with no way of changing the situation is not fun for the those who are stuck being prey, especially if the "wolves" cry "no fair" when the "prey" is able to fight back.
This is why I and several others on this thread are so against forced PvP, it's not that we hate or are scared of PvP but rather we don't like being always the prey and never the wolves with the wolves going out of their way to stack the deck so that it's never a fair fight for us and there's nothing for us to "git gud" from after seeing a respawn screen, then a loading screen and then another respawn screen because we were killed while in a loading screen does not teach us anything nor is it fun and that's why I play games, to have fun, I'm old enough that I have neither the time nor the energy to be someone's ego boost.
it's not just PvP where that griefing happens. I get it in TFOs too. sadly by people who have DPS as part of thier sigs. and they know who they are. Sorry little man who lives in Mommie's basement, but some of us have real jobs and cannot afford to grind/buy 1 million DPS builds.
Your replies are passive aggressive irritating. I came here to have a friendly discussion and I didn't expect that posting on these forums and sharing few ideas on how to improve PvP will lead me to this kind of a quarrel. For all my time spend in ker'rat ever since came back to STO i never met someone as annoying as you. The narrative that is pushed in here is that they are the nasties, but are they ?
You and rattler2, did you miss what i wrote right after my first post ? It is on record that i consented that converting patrols and forcing pvp on others might not be the best idea and you continue to strawman me.
I am getting the feeling that you are attacking the strawman not only because you yourself do not want to pvp, you also want pvp players not to pvp and die out or be gone or something. If you can't have good time nobody else should eh ?
I hear ya, my guild ran regular patrols in the Barrens to clear out gankers.
Gotcha. So the next thing that will captivate most players interests for all of 30 minutes before they log off again not to return for months. Does anyone actually think the current strategy the devs have is working? The PvE queues are mostly dead and the battlezones are buggy and laggy, if not outright dead. Not to mention both the PvE queues and the battlezones are repetitive at this point. New episodes, if they aren't a compilation of patrols, give all of 30 minutes of gameplay.
When season 13 launched, there were over 100 players in the PvP queues at any given time. That was far more than the most popular PvE queue at the time, Crystalline Catastrophe. So yes, the interest in PvP is there. Three years later, I can never get Crystalline Catastrophe to launch, let alone any queue. So will the next story mission get played? Sure, once maybe twice. The next queue? For a month maybe. But will they sustain the game? Nope. Because what is STO's endgame really? I couldn't tell you to be honest. I don't care if PvP gets revamped at this point because I think STO is a lost cause.
By the way, it wasn't only players who killed PvP. A few players wouldn't have been able to hurt all of PvP if we had a competent dev team who knew how to inject some amount of balance into the game. Instead we have hyper-expensive cash grab bundles being injected into the game to give people a shiny new ship or console to use in the same laggy queues and battlezones.
I've seen level 60s running from a single player that was inside the level range that they had more then the 2% (or what ever it was again) chance of landing an attack on them (in WoW PvP you'll never have a 0% chance of hit even if it's a level 6 player versus a level 60 one, though in PvE after a certain level it's literally impossible to land a hit on an NPC or them to land a hit on you if you're the higher level one).
The current problem in pvp is that players who over stack defenses and escape cards are nearly unkillable and they can escape at will. Watch Omega Figher's latest video, he is ranting that people are escaping him and he cant finish them.
But to me balance is not the issue, even though exitus is 5mil on KDF and 700mil on Fed, and it is one of the best pvp traits in the game, which means team FED is more likely to get stomped by team KDF...
I think if there is a meaningful platform for pvp players to spend time in it, it will grow on its own. Patrol missions are relaxing, speeding your endeavours progress is useful.
I am not trying to be egotist here, maybe give the PvE players their own versions of the patrol perk farm, where they get to see a DPS table in the end that displays the top damage per second performers for the day for that particular system.
You continue to push it. And EVERY point we make, you disregard.
While I admit I may have missed something in the wall of text due to feeling I'm being put on the defensive by the attitude, The fact remains you have disregarded pretty much everyone's concerns about it being fair, and the fact that it is NOT ok to be steamrolled. The algorythm idea has been floated before, but again not addressed the concerns of how someone can game that system.
I'm willing to have a civil discussion. But it goes both ways. The attitude, intentional or not, is getting people to rally against you rather than foster a constructive discussion. And I have pointed out I am not anti-PvP, which the attitude your giving is trying to paint everyone who disagrees with you as. You conveniently ignored that and are trying to blame us.
Intentional or not, you're coming across as highly confrontational, which gets confrontational in response.
So... with all that out of the way, are you willing to listen to the concerns others have regarding the idea? If so... table is open for discussion. If not... probably best to just quit while you're ahead because its just gonna be more of the same. The very fact we're raising concerns, especially giving specific issues and not just broadstroking or dismissing entirely, should be an indicator that we actually do care.
Indeed there's a reason why I gave an example of what I consider to be my best experience in PvP and that reason was to show what I consider to be fun in PvP.
I do not in fact always demand to be the winner, the example I gave as my best experience in fact was a loss for me, but a fair loss, I did my best and it wasn't enough, sure there was room for improvement obviously, in fact I saw several things I could do better.
I here's the thing though, if the match is clearly stacked against me and all avenues for improvement are blocked with "git gud" that's not fun, not for me at least.
vanhyo you may claim to want a civil discussion however your attitude tells a different story and we're gonna react to that attitude since it's what we get.
Sure, no rating system is perfect and there will probably be that evil villain dude who let others defeat him till he is downrated enough so he can go up again but these cases will be rare and as soon as he starts winning he quickly goes up again.
The character rating needs to be completely hidden and unknown.
In relation to my idea - i think this might not be needed at all, if players are stacking defenses nobody will want to be locked for 15-20mins in a pvp battle instead of finishing the patrol for 2-3min, not to mention that if by chance a third player joins and he focuses on finishing the pat, it will reset the zone and interrupt the fight. So my estimate is that the pvp aspect of it will be rather symbolic, something on the side that rarely ends with a kill. Players for the most part will likely say something to each other if they want to fight it out like "Ready ?", "Ready Go" with few cases of bad manner. This is my estimation, i could be wrong on this, i do not know.
As for the honor system... I would have to say that for the most part it is kinda ignored in Ker'rat. While there have been instances of people designating a particular area for duels, the Open PvP elements tend to invite players who are just looking to engage the opposite faction. We have no means of signaling outside of chat that we are looking for a PvP encounter, and some people, at least to my knowledge, actually play the game with the chat window closed. Add to that language barriers as we do have people logging in from other countries like Germany and France, just to name a couple, and it gets more complicated. I know enough French to ask if they can speak English, and to at least get an idea of what is being said at times. My German... I can say the equivelent of "Bless you" if someone sneezes, and thank you.
We would need some kind of flag to indicate players who are open to PvP and to indicate players who are not. But even then we may need to rig something up so that a PvPer doesn't just gank an unsuspecting PvEer.
Simply allow 2 options, lets say endevour tasks send you to Japori, when you arrive at the system it says:
Patrol Japori [Private]
Patrol Japori [Shared PvP]
Depending on the level of danger, the reward system can be slightly adjusted: 800 perk exp for normal, 1000 for advance, 1200 for elite or shared PvP zone (which is always on normal).
And as i mentioned above, the pve players could also get damage-per-second table with all results in that system for the day, other player's statistics can be interesting to know.
Final edit, i know it wrote it elsewhere but it is important
The PvP option shouldn't be available at-will but only if the endevour tasks personally sends you. This is to prevent teams griefing single persons.
Tier 1 - base tier 1 ships with level appropriate equipment and that's it. You get to pick from any of the basic weapons/consoles/systems but it's only white gear. No Boffs.
Tier 2 - Tier 2 ships with appropriate gear but now you can add basic Boff powers.
Etc. Just add a little bit more to each tier so that it get's a little more complex as you go.
Up to
Tier 6 - anything goes just the same as current PVP.
Each game you get some points based on wins/losses/kills etc. You need 'X' points to go to the next tier, but you don't HAVE to go to the next tier...if you find that Tier 3 or 4 is your sweet spot then you can play at that tier forever.
Maps should be instanced for each tier, a nice big open map with various terrain features (planets, asteroids, structures, black holes, nebulas etc.) and objectives to capture/defend. Then have the same but as a battle royale style map.
Imagine in a battle royale where the game comes down to a connie and a miranda fighting in a nebula.
The only way I've seen games effectively deal with this is player tier rankings. IE each player's win/loss rate is recorded (in some cases this is abstracted as a single number that goes up or down each match). The idea of course is to sort players by approximate skill level. PvP is more fun when not fighting people drastically more powerful than you.
My character Tsin'xing
yeah, calling bullsqueeze on that. so I'm calling out. post up that data, please. PvP was on the ropes with LoR, no way were there a hundred in queues to PvP for Escalation.
I think the most correct solution is create a dedicates Instance X for PvP, see once and for all that there are not hundreds, not even tens of players in the instance, and the few that are, are all Red team, circling under their cloaks waiting.