2) what specific details about the supernova in the show do you think contradict the STO missions in any significant way?
I don't think it was explicitly stated, but the wording during the interview made it sound like it was the star in the Romulan system that went supernova rather than Hobus.
Right. And because it wasn't explicitly stated, there is no significant issue with STO's storyline at this point. Obviously that may change, but at this point the people who are acting like STO's storyline is suddenly in some kind of trouble are massively exaggerating.
Just rewatched the scene and I was wrong, it infact IS explicitly stated. At timestamp 12:45 in the episode the person doing the interview says "When you first you first learned that the Romulan sun was going to explode", so that debate is over.
Ok, so at most they just need to change the word "Hobus" to "Romulan sun" in some mission dialogue? Maybe people just have different understandings of what a "significant" problem is, but to me changing text is definitely not it. To me it would be something that would completely invalidate having a character (especially the famous VO actors) or a mission map they spent a ton of time and money designing.
But from my understanding of this situation, the STO story (that a group of Romulans "accidentally?" blew up Hobus with weapon experimentation) could just as easily apply to their own sun as the Hobus star, so I'm not sure what this big concern is about here. Change a name in some text and this contradiction is basically fixed.
2) what specific details about the supernova in the show do you think contradict the STO missions in any significant way?
I don't think it was explicitly stated, but the wording during the interview made it sound like it was the star in the Romulan system that went supernova rather than Hobus.
Right. And because it wasn't explicitly stated, there is no significant issue with STO's storyline at this point. Obviously that may change, but at this point the people who are acting like STO's storyline is suddenly in some kind of trouble are massively exaggerating.
Just rewatched the scene and I was wrong, it infact IS explicitly stated. At timestamp 12:45 in the episode the person doing the interview says "When you first you first learned that the Romulan sun was going to explode", so that debate is over.
Ok, so at most they just need to change the word "Hobus" to "Romulan sun" in some mission dialogue? Maybe people just have different understands of what a "significant" problem is, but to me changing text is definitely not it. To me it would be something that would completely invalidate having a character (especially the famous VO actors) or a mission map they spent a ton of time and money designing.
But from my understanding of this situation, the STO story (that a group of Romulans "accidentally?" blew up Hobus with weapon experimentation) could just as easily apply to their own sun as the Hobus star, so I'm not sure what what big concern is about here. Change a name in some text and this contradiction is basically fixed.
You're trying too hard to keep STO Canon, you really need to just let that go, we all knew this could happen one day. We have missions where we go to the Hobus system, which in STP canon should still exist but is obviously destroyed in STO.
2) what specific details about the supernova in the show do you think contradict the STO missions in any significant way?
I don't think it was explicitly stated, but the wording during the interview made it sound like it was the star in the Romulan system that went supernova rather than Hobus.
Right. And because it wasn't explicitly stated, there is no significant issue with STO's storyline at this point. Obviously that may change, but at this point the people who are acting like STO's storyline is suddenly in some kind of trouble are massively exaggerating.
Just rewatched the scene and I was wrong, it infact IS explicitly stated. At timestamp 12:45 in the episode the person doing the interview says "When you first you first learned that the Romulan sun was going to explode", so that debate is over.
Missed that line and I've watched it twice. That said, the Romulan sun was a G9 star which... isn't the type to go supernova. So there's still something odd going on there.
2) what specific details about the supernova in the show do you think contradict the STO missions in any significant way?
I don't think it was explicitly stated, but the wording during the interview made it sound like it was the star in the Romulan system that went supernova rather than Hobus.
Right. And because it wasn't explicitly stated, there is no significant issue with STO's storyline at this point. Obviously that may change, but at this point the people who are acting like STO's storyline is suddenly in some kind of trouble are massively exaggerating.
Just rewatched the scene and I was wrong, it infact IS explicitly stated. At timestamp 12:45 in the episode the person doing the interview says "When you first you first learned that the Romulan sun was going to explode", so that debate is over.
Ok, so at most they just need to change the word "Hobus" to "Romulan sun" in some mission dialogue? Maybe people just have different understands of what a "significant" problem is, but to me changing text is definitely not it. To me it would be something that would completely invalidate having a character (especially the famous VO actors) or a mission map they spent a ton of time and money designing.
But from my understanding of this situation, the STO story (that a group of Romulans "accidentally?" blew up Hobus with weapon experimentation) could just as easily apply to their own sun as the Hobus star, so I'm not sure what what big concern is about here. Change a name in some text and this contradiction is basically fixed.
You're trying too hard to keep STO Canon, you really need to just let that go, we all knew this could happen one day. We have missions where we go to the Hobus system, which in STP canon should still exist but is obviously destroyed in STO.
No, for the record I think STO is better off NOT trying to stick to canon. Here is a post I made yesterday:
STO is better off NOT trying to stick to the "prime timeline" canon, IMO. While canon has it's purposes, it can also handcuff story. I'm completely fine with STO being one of the many parallel timelines in the Trek universe and having the extra freedom to go along with it.
That said, my recent posts in this thread are simply disagreeing that what little has been said about the supernova in Picard poses some huge problem for STO's storyline. Again, all they would have to do is change the names in some mission dialogue and any real contradictions are fixed. The same goes for your example about going to the Hobus system; change the name of where we're going and that's done.
So for the record, yes I think STO is better off declaring itself an alternate timeline. However separate from that issue I don't think the arguments people are making in this thread that Picard has created some kind of huge problem for STO are valid.
Since the Discovery shuttle design was apparently based on the flying trucks from TMP (and that I seem to remember seeing in TNG somewhere too) it is not surprising that something like Discovery shuttles are seen. Another factor is that both were probably based somewhat on US Marine ACVs in the first place.
Also, it's far from the first time we see Star Trek using century-old ships in then-present times. Any Miranda-class fan will confirm.
Plus, they're shuttles for civilian uses, so no need to have the latest, most expensive model to do the job of transporting a group of people.
I think there are two major differences between reusing Mirandas and reusing Discovery ships:
- IRL, the creation of such assets was much more time and money consuming back then, than now.
- In universe, Mirandas were used for a time period, which was long for sure, but when they were phased out, they were phased out. Discovery ships for the other hand, were used for like 10 years, then never seen for more than a hundred, then suddenly used again. There is absolutely no reason to do this. They should have better ships, they should be able to build better ships.
If these kind of things don't bother someone, it's all good and well, but for me it would take to much suspension of my disbelief.
It's about money...it's all about money. It would cost them money to design new shuttles and ships so they skimp in any place they can. Short Treks are cheap productions meant to make a quick buck but never sold but they do release one a month to keep some people subbed to all access.
It makes absolutely zero sense that Starfleet would be building a armada of new 120+ year old ships to evacuate the Romulans when there are plenty of perfectly good ships around to do that already, not to mention they could employ civilian transports and such to help.
But when has anything Kurtzman or this production done made sense.....or followed canon?
STO goes off the rails so much that cannon is just a suggestion lol. We have Discovery and TOS using the Temporal Cold War storyline as an excuse to be shoe-horned into the game. That horrendous nonsense about Andorians needing several genders to procreate thanks to a terrible novel. Then there's the Dominion hopping on the alliance bandwagon we can have playable Jem'hadar (which I still don't think anyone ever requested). All the strange non-cannon ships we can use, somehow cramming in the Mirror Universe ships...
To stick closer to cannon PWI would have to stop shoehorning in stuff like this, and they won't because all of these things are money generators and nothing more.
There is a bigger problem than just changing the name from Hobus to "the Romulan star", if it was the Romulan capital's primary then they (and the Federation) would have EIGHT MINUTES to evacuate the planet. It is horribly sloppy writing, worse than the "subspace shockwave" explanation that the Kelvin stuff was based on in the first place.
The funny thing is that while BOTH the Kelvin version and the PIC version are utter nonsense, there is a way that they could have handled it that is a bit far fetched but still plausible without the handwavum. If Hobus was a large star of the supernova producing variety and the Romulan star was orbiting it at the same distance as the furthest separation of the Alpha Centauri trinary then they would have approximately 73 days before Romulus got fried with the first waves of radiation after it went supernova (it would take considerably longer for the shockwave and debris to get there though).
With a little thought they could have adjusted the distance to fit the plot and produced science fiction instead of pure space fantasy.
2. Discovery content has nothing to do with the Temporal Cold War
I haven't actually completed the ST:D faction tutorial, but doesn't that end with Daniels bringing you to the STO time period just like the TOS faction?
2. Discovery content has nothing to do with the Temporal Cold War
I haven't actually completed the ST:D faction tutorial, but doesn't that end with Daniels bringing you to the STO time period just like the TOS faction?
You will find the answer to your question in the fullness of time.....
There is a bigger problem than just changing the name from Hobus to "the Romulan star", if it was the Romulan capital's primary then they (and the Federation) would have EIGHT MINUTES to evacuate the planet. It is horribly sloppy writing, worse than the "subspace shockwave" explanation that the Kelvin stuff was based on in the first place.
The funny thing is that while BOTH the Kelvin version and the PIC version are utter nonsense, there is a way that they could have handled it that is a bit far fetched but still plausible without the handwavum. If Hobus was a large star of the supernova producing variety and the Romulan star was orbiting it at the same distance as the furthest separation of the Alpha Centauri trinary then they would have approximately 73 days before Romulus got fried with the first waves of radiation after it went supernova (it would take considerably longer for the shockwave and debris to get there though).
With a little thought they could have adjusted the distance to fit the plot and produced science fiction instead of pure space fantasy.
If it was the Romulus star that blew up, then Romulan Scientists would have sufficient technology to figure out when their star blew up. Even if it was due to sabotage, they would have an estimate of when it would blow up. So it is a race against a deadline instead of having only 8 minutes to evacuate the planet. They wouldn't start an evacuation after a star blew up.
According to Picard, the Federation had either enough time to build 10,000 warp-capable ferries at Utopia Planitia or gather 10,000 warp-capable ferries and temporarily station them at Utopia Planitia before they were all destroyed by the rogue Synths. Then the Federation gave up after the attack and decided to let the Romulans fend for themselves. So either way the Federation had weeks to months to deal with Romulus' star exploding.
2. Discovery content has nothing to do with the Temporal Cold War
I haven't actually completed the ST:D faction tutorial, but doesn't that end with Daniels bringing you to the STO time period just like the TOS faction?
You will find the answer to your question in the fullness of time.....
If your telling me to complete the tutorial that ain't happening, I had already customized my TOS character to be a ST:D era character before the new faction was announced. I'd like the new beaming effects and UI but then I'd need to buy my lockbox and lobi ships again which I'm not gonna do. I only started it so that I could see the story, but when I realized I was just playing through a reskinned version of the standard Fed tutorial I logged out and deleted the character.
There is a bigger problem than just changing the name from Hobus to "the Romulan star", if it was the Romulan capital's primary then they (and the Federation) would have EIGHT MINUTES to evacuate the planet. It is horribly sloppy writing, worse than the "subspace shockwave" explanation that the Kelvin stuff was based on in the first place.
The funny thing is that while BOTH the Kelvin version and the PIC version are utter nonsense, there is a way that they could have handled it that is a bit far fetched but still plausible without the handwavum. If Hobus was a large star of the supernova producing variety and the Romulan star was orbiting it at the same distance as the furthest separation of the Alpha Centauri trinary then they would have approximately 73 days before Romulus got fried with the first waves of radiation after it went supernova (it would take considerably longer for the shockwave and debris to get there though).
With a little thought they could have adjusted the distance to fit the plot and produced science fiction instead of pure space fantasy.
If it was the Romulus star that blew up, then Romulan Scientists would have sufficient technology to figure out when their star blew up. Even if it was due to sabotage, they would have an estimate of when it would blow up. So it is a race against a deadline instead of having only 8 minutes to evacuate the planet. They wouldn't start an evacuation after a star blew up.
According to Picard, the Federation had either enough time to build 10,000 warp-capable ferries at Utopia Planitia or gather 10,000 warp-capable ferries and temporarily station them at Utopia Planitia before they were all destroyed by the rogue Synths. Then the Federation gave up after the attack and decided to let the Romulans fend for themselves. So either way the Federation had weeks to months to deal with Romulus' star exploding.
True, they could go with detecting instabilities or whatever in the Romulan star in PIC, but in that case they would have to break away from the Kelvin tie-in since Spock specifically stated that the supernova had already happened and he was attempting to deflect or neutralize the wave it produced before it reached the Romulan homeword.
There is a bigger problem than just changing the name from Hobus to "the Romulan star", if it was the Romulan capital's primary then they (and the Federation) would have EIGHT MINUTES to evacuate the planet. It is horribly sloppy writing, worse than the "subspace shockwave" explanation that the Kelvin stuff was based on in the first place.
The funny thing is that while BOTH the Kelvin version and the PIC version are utter nonsense, there is a way that they could have handled it that is a bit far fetched but still plausible without the handwavum. If Hobus was a large star of the supernova producing variety and the Romulan star was orbiting it at the same distance as the furthest separation of the Alpha Centauri trinary then they would have approximately 73 days before Romulus got fried with the first waves of radiation after it went supernova (it would take considerably longer for the shockwave and debris to get there though).
With a little thought they could have adjusted the distance to fit the plot and produced science fiction instead of pure space fantasy.
If it was the Romulus star that blew up, then Romulan Scientists would have sufficient technology to figure out when their star blew up. Even if it was due to sabotage, they would have an estimate of when it would blow up. So it is a race against a deadline instead of having only 8 minutes to evacuate the planet. They wouldn't start an evacuation after a star blew up.
According to Picard, the Federation had either enough time to build 10,000 warp-capable ferries at Utopia Planitia or gather 10,000 warp-capable ferries and temporarily station them at Utopia Planitia before they were all destroyed by the rogue Synths. Then the Federation gave up after the attack and decided to let the Romulans fend for themselves. So either way the Federation had weeks to months to deal with Romulus' star exploding.
True, they could go with detecting instabilities or whatever in the Romulan star in PIC, but in that case they would have to break away from the Kelvin tie-in since Spock specifically stated that the supernova had already happened and he was attempting to deflect or neutralize the wave it produced before it reached the Romulan homeword.
What they've said so far already breaks from JJTrek, because they had the time to either mobilize or construct a rescue fleet, plus with it being the Romulan sun that went supernova there's no way Spock would have made it there before it destroyed Romulus and Remus if he left AFTER it exploded.
There is a bigger problem than just changing the name from Hobus to "the Romulan star", if it was the Romulan capital's primary then they (and the Federation) would have EIGHT MINUTES to evacuate the planet. It is horribly sloppy writing, worse than the "subspace shockwave" explanation that the Kelvin stuff was based on in the first place.
The funny thing is that while BOTH the Kelvin version and the PIC version are utter nonsense, there is a way that they could have handled it that is a bit far fetched but still plausible without the handwavum. If Hobus was a large star of the supernova producing variety and the Romulan star was orbiting it at the same distance as the furthest separation of the Alpha Centauri trinary then they would have approximately 73 days before Romulus got fried with the first waves of radiation after it went supernova (it would take considerably longer for the shockwave and debris to get there though).
With a little thought they could have adjusted the distance to fit the plot and produced science fiction instead of pure space fantasy.
If it was the Romulus star that blew up, then Romulan Scientists would have sufficient technology to figure out when their star blew up. Even if it was due to sabotage, they would have an estimate of when it would blow up. So it is a race against a deadline instead of having only 8 minutes to evacuate the planet. They wouldn't start an evacuation after a star blew up.
According to Picard, the Federation had either enough time to build 10,000 warp-capable ferries at Utopia Planitia or gather 10,000 warp-capable ferries and temporarily station them at Utopia Planitia before they were all destroyed by the rogue Synths. Then the Federation gave up after the attack and decided to let the Romulans fend for themselves. So either way the Federation had weeks to months to deal with Romulus' star exploding.
True, they could go with detecting instabilities or whatever in the Romulan star in PIC, but in that case they would have to break away from the Kelvin tie-in since Spock specifically stated that the supernova had already happened and he was attempting to deflect or neutralize the wave it produced before it reached the Romulan homeword.
What they've said so far already breaks from JJTrek, because they had the time to either mobilize or construct a rescue fleet, plus with it being the Romulan sun that went supernova there's no way Spock would have made it there before it destroyed Romulus and Remus if he left AFTER it exploded.
That is exactly why it makes more sense as a distant binary companion instead of the one the Romulan capital orbits, it could satisfy both the Kelvin and the PIC requirements without silly handwavum. Also, as others have pointed out, the Romulan star was not a type prone to going supernova, and even if it did the explosion would be irrelevant since the expansion stage would consume the planet long before that.
Also, if it was an attack that skipped all the natural stuff, like the nova-bomb style weapon that Tolian Soran used in "Generations" there would have been no warning or buildup, just a bang and the eight minute deadline.
A star likely to have an Earthlike planet, which Romulus is shown to be in canon, isn't big enough to go supernova. They expand into a red giant, then collapse into a white dwarf and die of old age. You need a star of at least eight solar masses to get a Type 2 supernova (Type 1 involves a binary pair of white dwarfs).
We don't know enough about exoplanets to know if a habitable planet is capable of orbiting around a star capable of becoming a supernova.
Au contraire.
The habitable zone refers only to the area around the star where liquid surface water can exist (barring weird stuff like the tidal heating that created oceans under the ice caps of Europa and Enceladus). Larger stars' habitable zones are further out, but they also produce more intense light, meaning larger amounts of radiation. It's estimated, for example, that life could arise around an F-type main sequence star, but the planet would need a very robust ozone layer to avoid being fried, or else other adaptations would need to be made, some of which would restrict or prevent technological development (e.g. you could develop aquatic intelligent life a la whales and dolphins, but such life would be very unlikely to figure out metal smelting because nothing underwater gets hot enough). And F-type stars aren't big enough to nova.
Stars get larger and hotter as they age, meaning the habitable zone changes position, and stars that are larger to begin with don't live as long. Supergiants are an extreme example, burning bright and then blowing within mere hundreds of millions of years. That means less time for complex and especially technological life to evolve.
Up to a point (red dwarfs having a tendency to produce more flares and their habitable zone being so close to the star that planets are likely to tidally lock), life is actually more likely around smaller, dimmer stars, like K-type. 40 Eridani A is a good example.
Post edited by starswordc on
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
For what it's worth, IDW's companion comic series "Picard: Countdown" sees Picard inspecting a Romulan colony outside the home system in order to assess that planet's evacuation needs. I don't know how much of the series bible IDW were given, but that definitely indicates a Hobus-style nova rather than just a nova of the Romulan home star.
the interviewer said ROMULAN sun...not ROMULUS sun - ROMULAN sun
ANY star within romulan space could be the one that went supernova, including hobus; until something shows up in picard that SPECIFICALLY says it was the romulus system's primary, STO doesn't have to change anything
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
the interviewer said ROMULAN sun...not ROMULUS sun - ROMULAN sun
ANY star within romulan space could be the one that went supernova, including hobus; until something shows up in picard that SPECIFICALLY says it was the romulus system's primary, STO doesn't have to change anything
I mean honestly, Trek has bigger cannon conflicts within the actual TV series themselves than there is between this one line and STO (at the moment). I guess some people just like to exaggerate things, but so far this is pretty insignificant.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
A few unsolicited thoughts on the premiere of Star Trek: Picard...
I loved it and I thought it was exactly what it needed to be. The experience did, however, leave me scratching my head about a couple of reviews I read that claimed “pacing issues”. First of all, welcome to the world of pilots and premieres. The careful balance of world-establishing and forward plot progression is as old as the medium itself. Some might read this and say, “But the world was already established by canon.” That may be the case in the larger, more general sense, but time has passed, Starfleet has changed and, more importantly, Picard has changed. And who wants to be spoon fed a character that’s been kept in cold storage?
Second, if the producers had supplied a first episode that was nothing but action it would have done a disservice to the incredible talents of Sir Patrick whose craft somehow continues to grow and deepen. And that certainly would have detracted from the fans’ (new and old alike) experience of this very worthy vehicle.
But, beyond my issues with critical opinion and what it constitutes as reasonable pacing, I actually had no issues with pacing. The choreography and effects demonstrated in the two considerable fight scenes were at the caliber of, or better than, most studio films (If a bit truncated due to the medium and the previously stated need for a solid story foundation).
I think Isa Briones performed admirably in a role that featured many potential trap doors and difficulties (I’m intentionally avoiding spoilers). And I was particularly excited to see Alison Pill join the Trek family as I’ve been an admirer of her work for some time. Most of the rest of the cast has yet to be seen and so we’ll have to wait a little more to get our crew. But I, for one, am very excited to see this story play out.
By the way, if you’re new to Trek and are confused about why people were screaming with joyous terror during that final shot... just buckle your seatbelts. Not that I know what’s gonna happen or a anything. :-)
Oh, and Frakes, if you’re reading this? You’ve been replaced by a pit bull terrier.
-Picard's few lines in French. Oooooooh boy was it bad from a native's perspective. Stewart tried hard and I did understand most of it despite the accent, but it shows the showrunners didn't even bother to have it checked to get something more decent. And that's very minor, I'm aware of that, but it's something that always bothers me in the 10s-20s where IM and smartphones exist.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
the interviewer said ROMULAN sun...not ROMULUS sun - ROMULAN sun
ANY star within romulan space could be the one that went supernova, including hobus; until something shows up in picard that SPECIFICALLY says it was the romulus system's primary, STO doesn't have to change anything
I mean honestly, Trek has bigger cannon conflicts within the actual TV series themselves than there is between this one line and STO (at the moment). I guess some people just like to exaggerate things, but so far this is pretty insignificant.
The part about the nova does not necessarily pertain to just STO vs PIC though it is true it might conflict too. I cannot speak for the other people, but I was talking about it from a plausibility and scientific point of view along with looking at the PIC vs ST:2009 aspect, not the STO one (I do think STO did a great job with their take though).
> @foxspirit13 said: > STO goes off the rails so much that cannon is just a suggestion lol. We have Discovery and TOS using the Temporal Cold War storyline as an excuse to be shoe-horned into the game. That horrendous nonsense about Andorians needing several genders to procreate thanks to a terrible novel. Then there's the Dominion hopping on the alliance bandwagon we can have playable Jem'hadar (which I still don't think anyone ever requested). All the strange non-cannon ships we can use, somehow cramming in the Mirror Universe ships... > > To stick closer to cannon PWI would have to stop shoehorning in stuff like this, and they won't because all of these things are money generators and nothing more. > > STO is soft-cannon.
The Andorians have four sexes , not four genders and it made the Andorians more interesting and those novels were cool and interesting .
the interviewer said ROMULAN sun...not ROMULUS sun - ROMULAN sun
ANY star within romulan space could be the one that went supernova, including hobus; until something shows up in picard that SPECIFICALLY says it was the romulus system's primary, STO doesn't have to change anything
Good point.
Making the supernova the Romulus sun, despite at first glance seeming more scientifically plausible, actually causes more problems. It means that Spock was going to use the red matter to consume Romulus' sun, somehow thinking it would save Romulus despite it consequently not having any sun at the end of Spock's operation.
Ironically the magical faster than light supernova in another star system called Hobus makes more sense here.
> @lordgyor said: > > @foxspirit13 said: > > STO goes off the rails so much that cannon is just a suggestion lol. We have Discovery and TOS using the Temporal Cold War storyline as an excuse to be shoe-horned into the game. That horrendous nonsense about Andorians needing several genders to procreate thanks to a terrible novel. Then there's the Dominion hopping on the alliance bandwagon we can have playable Jem'hadar (which I still don't think anyone ever requested). All the strange non-cannon ships we can use, somehow cramming in the Mirror Universe ships... > > > > To stick closer to cannon PWI would have to stop shoehorning in stuff like this, and they won't because all of these things are money generators and nothing more. > > > > STO is soft-cannon. > > The Andorians have four sexes , not four genders and it made the Andorians more interesting and those novels were cool and interesting .
Wasn’t this mentioned in an episode of TNG?
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Not quite. It was extrapolated from a throwaway line in "Data's Day" that Andorian marriages consist of four people. The Pocket Books novelverse writers interpreted this as meaning that Andorians had four biological sexes, which STO initially borrowed from.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Comments
Ok, so at most they just need to change the word "Hobus" to "Romulan sun" in some mission dialogue? Maybe people just have different understandings of what a "significant" problem is, but to me changing text is definitely not it. To me it would be something that would completely invalidate having a character (especially the famous VO actors) or a mission map they spent a ton of time and money designing.
But from my understanding of this situation, the STO story (that a group of Romulans "accidentally?" blew up Hobus with weapon experimentation) could just as easily apply to their own sun as the Hobus star, so I'm not sure what this big concern is about here. Change a name in some text and this contradiction is basically fixed.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
You're trying too hard to keep STO Canon, you really need to just let that go, we all knew this could happen one day. We have missions where we go to the Hobus system, which in STP canon should still exist but is obviously destroyed in STO.
Missed that line and I've watched it twice. That said, the Romulan sun was a G9 star which... isn't the type to go supernova. So there's still something odd going on there.
No, for the record I think STO is better off NOT trying to stick to canon. Here is a post I made yesterday:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1253245/changing-sto-lore-spoilers-for-star-trek-picard
That said, my recent posts in this thread are simply disagreeing that what little has been said about the supernova in Picard poses some huge problem for STO's storyline. Again, all they would have to do is change the names in some mission dialogue and any real contradictions are fixed. The same goes for your example about going to the Hobus system; change the name of where we're going and that's done.
So for the record, yes I think STO is better off declaring itself an alternate timeline. However separate from that issue I don't think the arguments people are making in this thread that Picard has created some kind of huge problem for STO are valid.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
It's about money...it's all about money. It would cost them money to design new shuttles and ships so they skimp in any place they can. Short Treks are cheap productions meant to make a quick buck but never sold but they do release one a month to keep some people subbed to all access.
It makes absolutely zero sense that Starfleet would be building a armada of new 120+ year old ships to evacuate the Romulans when there are plenty of perfectly good ships around to do that already, not to mention they could employ civilian transports and such to help.
But when has anything Kurtzman or this production done made sense.....or followed canon?
To stick closer to cannon PWI would have to stop shoehorning in stuff like this, and they won't because all of these things are money generators and nothing more.
STO is soft-cannon.
The funny thing is that while BOTH the Kelvin version and the PIC version are utter nonsense, there is a way that they could have handled it that is a bit far fetched but still plausible without the handwavum. If Hobus was a large star of the supernova producing variety and the Romulan star was orbiting it at the same distance as the furthest separation of the Alpha Centauri trinary then they would have approximately 73 days before Romulus got fried with the first waves of radiation after it went supernova (it would take considerably longer for the shockwave and debris to get there though).
With a little thought they could have adjusted the distance to fit the plot and produced science fiction instead of pure space fantasy.
I haven't actually completed the ST:D faction tutorial, but doesn't that end with Daniels bringing you to the STO time period just like the TOS faction?
You will find the answer to your question in the fullness of time.....
If it was the Romulus star that blew up, then Romulan Scientists would have sufficient technology to figure out when their star blew up. Even if it was due to sabotage, they would have an estimate of when it would blow up. So it is a race against a deadline instead of having only 8 minutes to evacuate the planet. They wouldn't start an evacuation after a star blew up.
According to Picard, the Federation had either enough time to build 10,000 warp-capable ferries at Utopia Planitia or gather 10,000 warp-capable ferries and temporarily station them at Utopia Planitia before they were all destroyed by the rogue Synths. Then the Federation gave up after the attack and decided to let the Romulans fend for themselves. So either way the Federation had weeks to months to deal with Romulus' star exploding.
If your telling me to complete the tutorial that ain't happening, I had already customized my TOS character to be a ST:D era character before the new faction was announced. I'd like the new beaming effects and UI but then I'd need to buy my lockbox and lobi ships again which I'm not gonna do. I only started it so that I could see the story, but when I realized I was just playing through a reskinned version of the standard Fed tutorial I logged out and deleted the character.
True, they could go with detecting instabilities or whatever in the Romulan star in PIC, but in that case they would have to break away from the Kelvin tie-in since Spock specifically stated that the supernova had already happened and he was attempting to deflect or neutralize the wave it produced before it reached the Romulan homeword.
What they've said so far already breaks from JJTrek, because they had the time to either mobilize or construct a rescue fleet, plus with it being the Romulan sun that went supernova there's no way Spock would have made it there before it destroyed Romulus and Remus if he left AFTER it exploded.
That is exactly why it makes more sense as a distant binary companion instead of the one the Romulan capital orbits, it could satisfy both the Kelvin and the PIC requirements without silly handwavum. Also, as others have pointed out, the Romulan star was not a type prone to going supernova, and even if it did the explosion would be irrelevant since the expansion stage would consume the planet long before that.
Also, if it was an attack that skipped all the natural stuff, like the nova-bomb style weapon that Tolian Soran used in "Generations" there would have been no warning or buildup, just a bang and the eight minute deadline.
Au contraire.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
ANY star within romulan space could be the one that went supernova, including hobus; until something shows up in picard that SPECIFICALLY says it was the romulus system's primary, STO doesn't have to change anything
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I mean honestly, Trek has bigger cannon conflicts within the actual TV series themselves than there is between this one line and STO (at the moment). I guess some people just like to exaggerate things, but so far this is pretty insignificant.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
From this article on the vineyard that was used as the location for Chateau Picard: https://www.winespectator.com/articles/make-it-so-how-a-not-so-french-vineyard-got-cast-as-star-trek-s-chateau-picard-unfiltered
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
https://www.facebook.com/105514059506187/posts/2768984993159067/
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Funnily enough, Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me once asked Sir Patrick why Picard didn't have a French accent. Turns out it's because he actually tried one during pre-production. He says he sounded like Inspector Clouseau.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
that line did it for me
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
The part about the nova does not necessarily pertain to just STO vs PIC though it is true it might conflict too. I cannot speak for the other people, but I was talking about it from a plausibility and scientific point of view along with looking at the PIC vs ST:2009 aspect, not the STO one (I do think STO did a great job with their take though).
> STO goes off the rails so much that cannon is just a suggestion lol. We have Discovery and TOS using the Temporal Cold War storyline as an excuse to be shoe-horned into the game. That horrendous nonsense about Andorians needing several genders to procreate thanks to a terrible novel. Then there's the Dominion hopping on the alliance bandwagon we can have playable Jem'hadar (which I still don't think anyone ever requested). All the strange non-cannon ships we can use, somehow cramming in the Mirror Universe ships...
>
> To stick closer to cannon PWI would have to stop shoehorning in stuff like this, and they won't because all of these things are money generators and nothing more.
>
> STO is soft-cannon.
The Andorians have four sexes , not four genders and it made the Andorians more interesting and those novels were cool and interesting .
An interview with Sir Stewart and Jeri Ryan, very funny, I recommend it. PS the regular uniforms were nearly as tight as 7of9's cat suit.
Good point.
Making the supernova the Romulus sun, despite at first glance seeming more scientifically plausible, actually causes more problems. It means that Spock was going to use the red matter to consume Romulus' sun, somehow thinking it would save Romulus despite it consequently not having any sun at the end of Spock's operation.
Ironically the magical faster than light supernova in another star system called Hobus makes more sense here.
> > @foxspirit13 said:
> > STO goes off the rails so much that cannon is just a suggestion lol. We have Discovery and TOS using the Temporal Cold War storyline as an excuse to be shoe-horned into the game. That horrendous nonsense about Andorians needing several genders to procreate thanks to a terrible novel. Then there's the Dominion hopping on the alliance bandwagon we can have playable Jem'hadar (which I still don't think anyone ever requested). All the strange non-cannon ships we can use, somehow cramming in the Mirror Universe ships...
> >
> > To stick closer to cannon PWI would have to stop shoehorning in stuff like this, and they won't because all of these things are money generators and nothing more.
> >
> > STO is soft-cannon.
>
> The Andorians have four sexes , not four genders and it made the Andorians more interesting and those novels were cool and interesting .
Wasn’t this mentioned in an episode of TNG?
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Not quite. It was extrapolated from a throwaway line in "Data's Day" that Andorian marriages consist of four people. The Pocket Books novelverse writers interpreted this as meaning that Andorians had four biological sexes, which STO initially borrowed from.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/