As everyone talked about most stuff before, I'll focus on less "visible" things in it:
-I'm already loving Picard's 2 Romulan carekeepers and it's a welcome sight to have more Romulans like that. In fact, I was hoping for a shot of Zhaban with a "resisting doing something unpleasant, you don't do that to Jean-Luc motherf*cking Picard" expression
-The STO devs probably freaked out a bit when the episode grabbed some of their canon and roundhouse-kicked it through a window, like Mars suffering an apocalypse, the shipyards gone and the supernova's behavior no longer being nonsensical (though this one can be relatively easily fixed)
-the "I don't want the game to end" line. Right in the feels.
-People are upset about the whole "Starfleet flipped the bird at the dying Romulans", but I think it works, especially during our present. Most people can have the best of intentions, but you only need a small group of *CENSORED* with enough power to ruin things. At least, I hope that's the "twist" and not the Federation in general having grown like that.
-Picard's few lines in French. Oooooooh boy was it bad from a native's perspective. Stewart tried hard and I did understand most of it despite the accent, but it shows the showrunners didn't even bother to have it checked to get something more decent. And that's very minor, I'm aware of that, but it's something that always bothers me in the 10s-20s where IM and smartphones exist.
-The STO devs probably freaked out a bit when the episode grabbed some of their canon and roundhouse-kicked it through a window, like Mars suffering an apocalypse, the shipyards gone and the supernova's behavior no longer being nonsensical (though this one can be relatively easily fixed)
Exactly which STO missions do you think are effected by that stuff in the show?
I have watched Star Trek: Picard about 3 times. I am not very thrilled about the tone and other items in the show.
First, they have Picard replaying the "Jim, get your command back before its too late." Only, they made Picard an extremely sad and possibly broken old man to make things worse.
Second, where was Starfleet Security and Medical? Jean-Luc Picard (a former admiral, highly decorated and not since Kirk- former commander of 2 Enterprises) was found lying on the ground hurt and unconscious. Local police just picks him up, and takes him home? Seriously???!!! Even in the real world, the victim would wake up in the emergency room with police waiting for a statement. There would be even more attention if the victim identified were a general or admiral. They would still have knowledge of classified information, even if the information was old.
Third, how did an explosion that made Picard fly through the air not be detected by Earth's planetary sensors and defensive systems? I can accept that a dampener could be used to hide the attacking Romulans and Dahj. However, I have a hard time believing the explosion could not be detected.
Fourth, why did synthoids even attack the Federation? What was their purpose prior to the attack? Why did the Sol system other defensive systems not detect the attacking ships, even with Mars' systems down.
Fifth, Mars is still on fire after 18 years? Starfleet engineers have a "miracle worker" reputation. The Federation has 150 member planets, multi-species. They can turn the Enterprise into a lightning rod to drain off energy from a planet to vent into space. But... they can not put out fires on Mars after 18 years?
Sixth, the ships used by the synths do not look like to me to be a Federation design. How did those ships get built and into the heart of the Federation?
Seventh, how did Maddox get a piece of Data's neural net? Data was blown up next to a weapon that was designed to attack a planet. I doubt that much was left. Even if Data survived, how would he not returned to Picard?
Eighth, why were civilians in the late 24th century using 20th and 21st century slang, dude and cool?
Nineth, even though it was a dream, the Enterprise-D's Ten Forward was located on Deck 10 Section 01. That would be under the saucer sensors at the middle front of the saucer, not several windows over from the center to the port side of the saucer.
The narrative so far in the show completely alters the story in Star Trek Online. Picard has not been shown to be the former ambassador to Vulcan. Data's memories never took over B-4; he never became the Enterprise-E's captain in those 18 years. I realize that STO is not hard cannon, but CBS has been very controlling over the content (character backstories, starships, story narrative). One would think that CBS would align with their approved STO story. Also, the synth story in Picard is nowhere in STO. There are synths all over STO. STO has done it's best to give fans content closest to the post Nemesis universe as possible. I wonder how, or if, STO will try to match up with the Picard show.
-The STO devs probably freaked out a bit when the episode grabbed some of their canon and roundhouse-kicked it through a window, like Mars suffering an apocalypse, the shipyards gone and the supernova's behavior no longer being nonsensical (though this one can be relatively easily fixed)
Exactly which STO missions do you think are effected by that stuff in the show?
Whether or not any missions are affected it does still affect the lore. STO continued the lore as established in the Countdown comic where Data had been successfully reborn with B4's body, and STP directly contradicts that since the Canon version of B4 wasn't advanced enough and everything Data tried to transfer was lost. Now that I think about it the mission 'Survivor' could be affected since it's implied Sela met with Data at the end, though that could conceivably be retconned since we don't see his face.
The narrative so far in the show completely alters the story in Star Trek Online. Picard has not been shown to be the former ambassador to Vulcan. Data's memories never took over B-4; he never became the Enterprise-E's captain in those 18 years. I realize that STO is not hard cannon, but CBS has been very controlling over the content (character backstories, starships, story narrative). One would think that CBS would align with their approved STO story. Also, the synth story in Picard is nowhere in STO. There are synths all over STO. STO has done it's best to give fans content closest to the post Nemesis universe as possible. I wonder how, or if, STO will try to match up with the Picard show.
You are talking about details in the STO novel(which 99% of the players haven't even read), not things that we actually SEE directly in game. As you know we don't have any missions with Picard or Data, so nothing I have seen in the show actually screws up any of the missions I can recall playing. Like I said in my last post, which specific missions in this game do you think are effected by this show so far?
-The STO devs probably freaked out a bit when the episode grabbed some of their canon and roundhouse-kicked it through a window, like Mars suffering an apocalypse, the shipyards gone and the supernova's behavior no longer being nonsensical (though this one can be relatively easily fixed)
Exactly which STO missions do you think are effected by that stuff in the show?
Whether or not any missions are affected it does still affect the lore. STO continued the lore as established in the Countdown comic where Data had been successfully reborn with B4's body, and STP directly contradicts that since the Canon version of B4 wasn't advanced enough and everything Data tried to transfer was lost. Now that I think about it the mission 'Survivor' could be affected since it's implied Sela met with Data at the end, though that could conceivably be retconned since we don't see his face.
If the only thing that's effected is lore that isn't even directly shown in game, then the game isn't effected in any meaningful way. It would be different if some planet we have in game was shown to have been destroyed; that would be a significant issue that would clearly contradict the show. But so far nothing of any consequence that is actually shown in this game has been effected by the show. At least, not from my limited memory.
You are talking about details in the STO novel(which 99% of the players haven't even read), not things that we actually SEE directly in game. As you know we don't have any missions with Picard or Data, so nothing I have seen in the show actually screws up any of the missions I can recall playing. Like I said in my last post, which specific missions in this game do you think are effected by this show so far?
I have not heard of an STO novel. If you are talking about the occasional short stories STO writes, I have not read them all (many, but not all). Those stories do help fans understand the changes that occur in game. There have been slight mentions to activities that took place before 2409 as part of in game interactions with NPCs through direct interaction or through a "communique." At Starfleet Academy in the duty officer section, you collect data pads with narratives for you to eventually answer multiple choice questions in the "road to 2409." If you get the question right, you get dilithium while getting further immersion into the game.
Seventh, how did Maddox get a piece of Data's neural net? Data was blown up next to a weapon that was designed to attack a planet. I doubt that much was left. Even if Data survived, how would he not returned to Picard?
Data probably gave one of his positronic neurons to Maddox and he used fractal neuronic cloning. Fractal neuronic cloning apparently just needs a single positronic neuron to get the complete code of the original android. Data and Maddox were in contact with each other throughout TNG so while Data would forbid experiments on his positronic brain, a neuron would not be out of the question.
Whether or not any missions are affected it does still affect the lore. STO continued the lore as established in the Countdown comic where Data had been successfully reborn with B4's body, and STP directly contradicts that since the Canon version of B4 wasn't advanced enough and everything Data tried to transfer was lost. Now that I think about it the mission 'Survivor' could be affected since it's implied Sela met with Data at the end, though that could conceivably be retconned since we don't see his face.
Or they could just say that Daystrom was wrong, and that between Picard and STO, Geordi did another examination of B4, found the "Data Matrix" and resurrected Data.
If B-4 is ever revived, then he should have his own life and memories not be a spare body to Data. Brent Spiner wants to keep Data's death permanent since Data's resurrection through B-4 would undermine Data's sacrifice.
My take on the federation not rebuilding the fleet: It seemed like The Federation put a lot of resources into building the relocation fleet. Resources they may not have really had. We really don’t know what state the federation and Star fleet was after the Dominion War. With the rogue synth attack that’s a lot of resources and people that were destroyed. Rebuilding all of that...shipyards and ships takes resources and time. Time that Romulus doesn’t have. Do they send the whole of Star Fleet to evacuate Romulus?
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
They lament that B-4 wasn't advanced enough to get Data's memories back, or to provide an advanced enough positronic brain for research purposes. But shouldn't Starfleet still have Lore disassembled in quantum storage somewhere? Apart from having emotions built into his main programming instead of handled by a separate chip (I assume he doesn't use a chip anyway, otherwise Soong could've fixed him by taking it out), he's technologically the same as Data, or at least close enough that he'd make a far better research subject than B-4. I know Data shot him, but my memory is that only crippled him so Data could turn him off for subsequent dismantling, and didn't actually kill him.
I doubt they destroyed him, and obviously they can't reactivate him, but surely he'd have been useful for research in the 20 odd years between his deactivation and the synth ban.
Maybe Lore is the origin of the Synths. Any Federation robotics scientists would have no ethical problems with researching Lore's dismantled parts to create Synths while they would have some problems doing the same thing to Data or B-4.
I’m thinking that Lore in the drawer and that Data did take over B4 and is in hiding
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
> @skhc said: > Something's occurred to me. > > Where's Lore? > > They lament that B-4 wasn't advanced enough to get Data's memories back, or to provide an advanced enough positronic brain for research purposes. But shouldn't Starfleet still have Lore disassembled in quantum storage somewhere? Apart from having emotions built into his main programming instead of handled by a separate chip (I assume he doesn't use a chip anyway, otherwise Soong could've fixed him by taking it out), he's technologically the same as Data, or at least close enough that he'd make a far better research subject than B-4. I know Data shot him, but my memory is that only crippled him so Data could turn him off for subsequent dismantling, and didn't actually kill him. > > I doubt they destroyed him, and obviously they can't reactivate him, but surely he'd have been useful for research in the 20 odd years between his deactivation and the synth ban.
Starfleet might now have vaporized Lore, but Data might have.
> @somtaawkhar said: > (Quote) > Spiner can want whatever he wants. He only killed of Data because he "couldn't" play an immoral android because he aged... except now he obviously can when given enough cash. > > Data's death was pointless, and totally invalidated his entire journey to become human by simply killing him.
Yeah the only person who thought killing Data was a good idea was Spiner himself , the Studio should have stood up to him and said no.
> somtaawkhar said:
> (Quote)
> Spiner can want whatever he wants. He only killed of Data because he "couldn't" play an immoral android because he aged... except now he obviously can when given enough cash.
>
> Data's death was pointless, and totally invalidated his entire journey to become human by simply killing him.
Yeah the only person who thought killing Data was a good idea was Spiner himself , the Studio should have stood up to him and said no.
And as long as Spiner only wants to play hallucinations, flashbacks, or dreams, then that is all we will get. Sometimes a character's journey is cut short since that is far more realistic. Although, Spiner gave himself a way out with B-4 which seems noncommittal to their character's death.
-The STO devs probably freaked out a bit when the episode grabbed some of their canon and roundhouse-kicked it through a window, like Mars suffering an apocalypse, the shipyards gone and the supernova's behavior no longer being nonsensical (though this one can be relatively easily fixed)
Nope, it's still nonsensical.
A star likely to have an Earthlike planet, which Romulus is shown to be in canon, isn't big enough to go supernova. They expand into a red giant, then collapse into a white dwarf and die of old age. You need a star of at least eight solar masses to get a Type 2 supernova (Type 1 involves a binary pair of white dwarfs).
Stars don't build to nova stage in a human lifetime, and they'll sterilize and then absorb any planets that used to orbit within the habitable zone as they expand into giants.
If the star did go nova, there's no rescuing anybody in the system. They'll be instantly reduced to their component charged particles that will then continue to expand outward with the remnants of the star at nearly the speed of light.
Quite frankly, STO's explanation of the supernova being a use of a sunkiller bomb makes significantly more sense, because then you can cleanly throw basic astrophysics out the window.
The narrative so far in the show completely alters the story in Star Trek Online. Picard has not been shown to be the former ambassador to Vulcan. Data's memories never took over B-4; he never became the Enterprise-E's captain in those 18 years. I realize that STO is not hard cannon, but CBS has been very controlling over the content (character backstories, starships, story narrative). One would think that CBS would align with their approved STO story. Also, the synth story in Picard is nowhere in STO. There are synths all over STO. STO has done it's best to give fans content closest to the post Nemesis universe as possible. I wonder how, or if, STO will try to match up with the Picard show.
You are talking about details in the STO novel(which 99% of the players haven't even read), not things that we actually SEE directly in game. As you know we don't have any missions with Picard or Data, so nothing I have seen in the show actually screws up any of the missions I can recall playing. Like I said in my last post, which specific missions in this game do you think are effected by this show so far?
No, all those details are spoken of in-game, in the Path to 2409 accolades and library chips. Furthermore, the Romulan Republic storyline, as well as the Fedside "Romulan Mystery" storyline, physically takes you to the Hobus supernova remnant. You can likewise physically visit the memorial in the remains of the Romulan home system.
Kael told me a few months back that if PIC did something like this, Geko was just going to declare STO an alternate timeline.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
A star likely to have an Earthlike planet, which Romulus is shown to be in canon, isn't big enough to go supernova. They expand into a red giant, then collapse into a white dwarf and die of old age. You need a star of at least eight solar masses to get a Type 2 supernova (Type 1 involves a binary pair of white dwarfs).
We don't know enough about exoplanets to know if a habitable planet is capable of orbiting around a star capable of becoming a supernova. In the case of White Dwarfs, it would have to be a Rogue Planet that is captured by them and then becomes habitable due to the Red Giant phase wiping out nearby planets that would exist in the White Dwarf's habitable zone. It is more likely for Star Trek to be our future than this from ever happening. A habitable planet orbiting a massive star would be a far more likely scenario to have a supernova, but there would still be plenty of time to evacuate the star system before it goes supernova under normal conditions.
If part of the 2009 Countdown comics is considered to be canon, then everything about basic astrophysics can be thrown out the window. The comic is where it states that the Hobus supernova traveled at multiwarp speeds. For more realistic results of a nearby supernova in fiction, there is the Stellvia of the Universe anime that had a star 20 light years away from earth undergo a supernova with a strong electromagnetic shockwaves and the remnants of the star system travelling to our solar system at relativistic velocities almost 200 years later.
Kael told me a few months back that if PIC did something like this, Geko was just going to declare STO an alternate timeline.
As I said before, it is just easier to preemptively make STO an alternate timeline since it is not a matter of if, but when there will be too much discrepancies between the TV series and STO.
But I really don't like the intro. Those generic bland animations do nothing for me.
I hated the intro song, didn't sound like Trek at all. A better option imo would have been a slowed down violin rendition of the TNG theme.
Total agreement. While I really like the Discovery theme, the animation intro was bland and uninspired nothingsness. With Picard, sadly it's both. They really do not know how to make memorable intro sequences and didn't understand what made the classics the, well classics.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Starfleet might now have vaporized Lore, but Data might have.
Well he didn't do it at the end of Descent, and I seriously doubt he'd have just been let walk into whatever storage facility Lore was kept in at a later stage with a phaser to disintegrate him. Also, he probably wouldn't have seen the need to do that.
The stuff in the path to 2409 can be completely disregarded with no loss to the game since none of it is referenced and already has been contradicted in missions. See Ezri and Tuvok not being retired.
The Hobus stuff, there's a little bit of flex room there. The star would have to be relatively close for it's nova to destroy Romulus and Remus so it could be that the interviewer who was referred to as a "stranger to history" anyway was just approximating. That or referring to it as a Romulan star becuase it was in Romulan territory. She was definitely not shown to be the most reliable source of information.
Anyhoo the episode was phenomenal beyond words and I wait with bated breath for the next one.
The dream at the beginning of the episode actually kinda... forshadows - or backshadows? - some of what we learn in the episode - like how Picard is acting angry or surprised that Data's bet would mean betting everything that Picard has - Picard bet everything he had to be able to save the Romulans... And he lost.
the "I don't want the game to end" line. Right in the feels.
And of course, this sentence... it might represent the particular sentimentality about Data - but it also symbolizes that he isn't really finished with Starfleet (or least, what Starfleet meant to him) yet. He still wants to go on another adventure.
His description of Data's "tell" represents his familiarity with android lifeforms, kinda explaining why he was so quick to get what Dajh really was. Data himself was able to pick up some oddities about Juliana Tainer by visual cues like blinking patterns or the way she played her instrument. (Whether Picard's ability in the dream is more representing is a metaphor for his detective work, or literally means he can subconsciously or consciously pick up clues of Android-typical behavior I don't know yet.)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
No, all those details are spoken of in-game, in the Path to 2409 accolades and library chips. Furthermore, the Romulan Republic storyline, as well as the Fedside "Romulan Mystery" storyline, physically takes you to the Hobus supernova remnant. You can likewise physically visit the memorial in the remains of the Romulan home system.
Kael told me a few months back that if PIC did something like this, Geko was just going to declare STO an alternate timeline.
1) the "path to 2409" stuff are just text files that can easily be changed. Nothing significant there.
2) what specific details about the supernova in the show do you think contradict the STO missions in any significant way?
3) as you mentioned, the memorial is in the Romulus system. That's correct. So what is the problem there?
2) what specific details about the supernova in the show do you think contradict the STO missions in any significant way?
I don't think it was explicitly stated, but the wording during the interview made it sound like it was the star in the Romulan system that went supernova rather than Hobus.
2) what specific details about the supernova in the show do you think contradict the STO missions in any significant way?
I don't think it was explicitly stated, but the wording during the interview made it sound like it was the star in the Romulan system that went supernova rather than Hobus.
Right. And because it wasn't explicitly stated, there is no significant issue with STO's storyline at this point. Obviously that may change, but at this point the people who are acting like STO's storyline is suddenly in some kind of trouble are massively exaggerating.
2) what specific details about the supernova in the show do you think contradict the STO missions in any significant way?
I don't think it was explicitly stated, but the wording during the interview made it sound like it was the star in the Romulan system that went supernova rather than Hobus.
It's just called the "Romulan supernova" which frankly can mean anything, as it only significantly impacted Romulan space.
2) what specific details about the supernova in the show do you think contradict the STO missions in any significant way?
I don't think it was explicitly stated, but the wording during the interview made it sound like it was the star in the Romulan system that went supernova rather than Hobus.
Right. And because it wasn't explicitly stated, there is no significant issue with STO's storyline at this point. Obviously that may change, but at this point the people who are acting like STO's storyline is suddenly in some kind of trouble are massively exaggerating.
Just rewatched the scene and I was wrong, it infact IS explicitly stated. At timestamp 12:45 in the episode the person doing the interview says "When you first you first learned that the Romulan sun was going to explode", so that debate is over.
Comments
As everyone talked about most stuff before, I'll focus on less "visible" things in it:
-I'm already loving Picard's 2 Romulan carekeepers and it's a welcome sight to have more Romulans like that. In fact, I was hoping for a shot of Zhaban with a "resisting doing something unpleasant, you don't do that to Jean-Luc motherf*cking Picard" expression
-The STO devs probably freaked out a bit when the episode grabbed some of their canon and roundhouse-kicked it through a window, like Mars suffering an apocalypse, the shipyards gone and the supernova's behavior no longer being nonsensical (though this one can be relatively easily fixed)
-the "I don't want the game to end" line. Right in the feels.
-People are upset about the whole "Starfleet flipped the bird at the dying Romulans", but I think it works, especially during our present. Most people can have the best of intentions, but you only need a small group of *CENSORED* with enough power to ruin things. At least, I hope that's the "twist" and not the Federation in general having grown like that.
-Picard's few lines in French. Oooooooh boy was it bad from a native's perspective. Stewart tried hard and I did understand most of it despite the accent, but it shows the showrunners didn't even bother to have it checked to get something more decent. And that's very minor, I'm aware of that, but it's something that always bothers me in the 10s-20s where IM and smartphones exist.
Exactly which STO missions do you think are effected by that stuff in the show?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
First, they have Picard replaying the "Jim, get your command back before its too late." Only, they made Picard an extremely sad and possibly broken old man to make things worse.
Second, where was Starfleet Security and Medical? Jean-Luc Picard (a former admiral, highly decorated and not since Kirk- former commander of 2 Enterprises) was found lying on the ground hurt and unconscious. Local police just picks him up, and takes him home? Seriously???!!! Even in the real world, the victim would wake up in the emergency room with police waiting for a statement. There would be even more attention if the victim identified were a general or admiral. They would still have knowledge of classified information, even if the information was old.
Third, how did an explosion that made Picard fly through the air not be detected by Earth's planetary sensors and defensive systems? I can accept that a dampener could be used to hide the attacking Romulans and Dahj. However, I have a hard time believing the explosion could not be detected.
Fourth, why did synthoids even attack the Federation? What was their purpose prior to the attack? Why did the Sol system other defensive systems not detect the attacking ships, even with Mars' systems down.
Fifth, Mars is still on fire after 18 years? Starfleet engineers have a "miracle worker" reputation. The Federation has 150 member planets, multi-species. They can turn the Enterprise into a lightning rod to drain off energy from a planet to vent into space. But... they can not put out fires on Mars after 18 years?
Sixth, the ships used by the synths do not look like to me to be a Federation design. How did those ships get built and into the heart of the Federation?
Seventh, how did Maddox get a piece of Data's neural net? Data was blown up next to a weapon that was designed to attack a planet. I doubt that much was left. Even if Data survived, how would he not returned to Picard?
Eighth, why were civilians in the late 24th century using 20th and 21st century slang, dude and cool?
Nineth, even though it was a dream, the Enterprise-D's Ten Forward was located on Deck 10 Section 01. That would be under the saucer sensors at the middle front of the saucer, not several windows over from the center to the port side of the saucer.
The narrative so far in the show completely alters the story in Star Trek Online. Picard has not been shown to be the former ambassador to Vulcan. Data's memories never took over B-4; he never became the Enterprise-E's captain in those 18 years. I realize that STO is not hard cannon, but CBS has been very controlling over the content (character backstories, starships, story narrative). One would think that CBS would align with their approved STO story. Also, the synth story in Picard is nowhere in STO. There are synths all over STO. STO has done it's best to give fans content closest to the post Nemesis universe as possible. I wonder how, or if, STO will try to match up with the Picard show.
Whether or not any missions are affected it does still affect the lore. STO continued the lore as established in the Countdown comic where Data had been successfully reborn with B4's body, and STP directly contradicts that since the Canon version of B4 wasn't advanced enough and everything Data tried to transfer was lost. Now that I think about it the mission 'Survivor' could be affected since it's implied Sela met with Data at the end, though that could conceivably be retconned since we don't see his face.
You are talking about details in the STO novel(which 99% of the players haven't even read), not things that we actually SEE directly in game. As you know we don't have any missions with Picard or Data, so nothing I have seen in the show actually screws up any of the missions I can recall playing. Like I said in my last post, which specific missions in this game do you think are effected by this show so far?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
If the only thing that's effected is lore that isn't even directly shown in game, then the game isn't effected in any meaningful way. It would be different if some planet we have in game was shown to have been destroyed; that would be a significant issue that would clearly contradict the show. But so far nothing of any consequence that is actually shown in this game has been effected by the show. At least, not from my limited memory.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I have not heard of an STO novel. If you are talking about the occasional short stories STO writes, I have not read them all (many, but not all). Those stories do help fans understand the changes that occur in game. There have been slight mentions to activities that took place before 2409 as part of in game interactions with NPCs through direct interaction or through a "communique." At Starfleet Academy in the duty officer section, you collect data pads with narratives for you to eventually answer multiple choice questions in the "road to 2409." If you get the question right, you get dilithium while getting further immersion into the game.
Data probably gave one of his positronic neurons to Maddox and he used fractal neuronic cloning. Fractal neuronic cloning apparently just needs a single positronic neuron to get the complete code of the original android. Data and Maddox were in contact with each other throughout TNG so while Data would forbid experiments on his positronic brain, a neuron would not be out of the question.
If B-4 is ever revived, then he should have his own life and memories not be a spare body to Data. Brent Spiner wants to keep Data's death permanent since Data's resurrection through B-4 would undermine Data's sacrifice.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Where's Lore?
They lament that B-4 wasn't advanced enough to get Data's memories back, or to provide an advanced enough positronic brain for research purposes. But shouldn't Starfleet still have Lore disassembled in quantum storage somewhere? Apart from having emotions built into his main programming instead of handled by a separate chip (I assume he doesn't use a chip anyway, otherwise Soong could've fixed him by taking it out), he's technologically the same as Data, or at least close enough that he'd make a far better research subject than B-4. I know Data shot him, but my memory is that only crippled him so Data could turn him off for subsequent dismantling, and didn't actually kill him.
I doubt they destroyed him, and obviously they can't reactivate him, but surely he'd have been useful for research in the 20 odd years between his deactivation and the synth ban.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
> Something's occurred to me.
>
> Where's Lore?
>
> They lament that B-4 wasn't advanced enough to get Data's memories back, or to provide an advanced enough positronic brain for research purposes. But shouldn't Starfleet still have Lore disassembled in quantum storage somewhere? Apart from having emotions built into his main programming instead of handled by a separate chip (I assume he doesn't use a chip anyway, otherwise Soong could've fixed him by taking it out), he's technologically the same as Data, or at least close enough that he'd make a far better research subject than B-4. I know Data shot him, but my memory is that only crippled him so Data could turn him off for subsequent dismantling, and didn't actually kill him.
>
> I doubt they destroyed him, and obviously they can't reactivate him, but surely he'd have been useful for research in the 20 odd years between his deactivation and the synth ban.
Starfleet might now have vaporized Lore, but Data might have.
> (Quote)
> Spiner can want whatever he wants. He only killed of Data because he "couldn't" play an immoral android because he aged... except now he obviously can when given enough cash.
>
> Data's death was pointless, and totally invalidated his entire journey to become human by simply killing him.
Yeah the only person who thought killing Data was a good idea was Spiner himself , the Studio should have stood up to him and said no.
And as long as Spiner only wants to play hallucinations, flashbacks, or dreams, then that is all we will get. Sometimes a character's journey is cut short since that is far more realistic. Although, Spiner gave himself a way out with B-4 which seems noncommittal to their character's death.
Quite frankly, STO's explanation of the supernova being a use of a sunkiller bomb makes significantly more sense, because then you can cleanly throw basic astrophysics out the window.
No, all those details are spoken of in-game, in the Path to 2409 accolades and library chips. Furthermore, the Romulan Republic storyline, as well as the Fedside "Romulan Mystery" storyline, physically takes you to the Hobus supernova remnant. You can likewise physically visit the memorial in the remains of the Romulan home system.
Kael told me a few months back that if PIC did something like this, Geko was just going to declare STO an alternate timeline.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
We don't know enough about exoplanets to know if a habitable planet is capable of orbiting around a star capable of becoming a supernova. In the case of White Dwarfs, it would have to be a Rogue Planet that is captured by them and then becomes habitable due to the Red Giant phase wiping out nearby planets that would exist in the White Dwarf's habitable zone. It is more likely for Star Trek to be our future than this from ever happening. A habitable planet orbiting a massive star would be a far more likely scenario to have a supernova, but there would still be plenty of time to evacuate the star system before it goes supernova under normal conditions.
If part of the 2009 Countdown comics is considered to be canon, then everything about basic astrophysics can be thrown out the window. The comic is where it states that the Hobus supernova traveled at multiwarp speeds. For more realistic results of a nearby supernova in fiction, there is the Stellvia of the Universe anime that had a star 20 light years away from earth undergo a supernova with a strong electromagnetic shockwaves and the remnants of the star system travelling to our solar system at relativistic velocities almost 200 years later.
As I said before, it is just easier to preemptively make STO an alternate timeline since it is not a matter of if, but when there will be too much discrepancies between the TV series and STO.
Total agreement. While I really like the Discovery theme, the animation intro was bland and uninspired nothingsness. With Picard, sadly it's both. They really do not know how to make memorable intro sequences and didn't understand what made the classics the, well classics.
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Well he didn't do it at the end of Descent, and I seriously doubt he'd have just been let walk into whatever storage facility Lore was kept in at a later stage with a phaser to disintegrate him. Also, he probably wouldn't have seen the need to do that.
The Hobus stuff, there's a little bit of flex room there. The star would have to be relatively close for it's nova to destroy Romulus and Remus so it could be that the interviewer who was referred to as a "stranger to history" anyway was just approximating. That or referring to it as a Romulan star becuase it was in Romulan territory. She was definitely not shown to be the most reliable source of information.
Anyhoo the episode was phenomenal beyond words and I wait with bated breath for the next one.
And of course, this sentence... it might represent the particular sentimentality about Data - but it also symbolizes that he isn't really finished with Starfleet (or least, what Starfleet meant to him) yet. He still wants to go on another adventure.
His description of Data's "tell" represents his familiarity with android lifeforms, kinda explaining why he was so quick to get what Dajh really was. Data himself was able to pick up some oddities about Juliana Tainer by visual cues like blinking patterns or the way she played her instrument. (Whether Picard's ability in the dream is more representing is a metaphor for his detective work, or literally means he can subconsciously or consciously pick up clues of Android-typical behavior I don't know yet.)
1) the "path to 2409" stuff are just text files that can easily be changed. Nothing significant there.
2) what specific details about the supernova in the show do you think contradict the STO missions in any significant way?
3) as you mentioned, the memorial is in the Romulus system. That's correct. So what is the problem there?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I don't think it was explicitly stated, but the wording during the interview made it sound like it was the star in the Romulan system that went supernova rather than Hobus.
Right. And because it wasn't explicitly stated, there is no significant issue with STO's storyline at this point. Obviously that may change, but at this point the people who are acting like STO's storyline is suddenly in some kind of trouble are massively exaggerating.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
It's just called the "Romulan supernova" which frankly can mean anything, as it only significantly impacted Romulan space.
Just rewatched the scene and I was wrong, it infact IS explicitly stated. At timestamp 12:45 in the episode the person doing the interview says "When you first you first learned that the Romulan sun was going to explode", so that debate is over.