Artan, unless your prison or secure hospital is located at the bottom of the ocean or in orbit, the life-support and security questions are handled very differently. It's extremely unlikely, for instance, that a prison is going to be staffed as poorly as a brig, as the prison's primary raison d'etre is secure confinement of dangerous prisoners while a brig is more of an add-on to an existing craft and primarily intended for the temporary confinement of someone who has committed a minor offense, or the temporary confinement of a more dangerous person until they can be transferred to a dedicated facility (anyone being confined for transfer but who is judged to be less dangerous would generally simply be confined to quarters, with an external lock or single guard at the only point of entry/egress).
The situations being discussed here are inapplicable to those facilities; the closest a secure wing of a hospital might experience to loss of atmosphere, for instance, would be a release of toxic gases, and those can be vented by opening a window. You can't vent the vacuum from a holed spacecraft by opening a porthole and letting the vacuum out.
I'm referring to the people who would rather their prisoners die
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
tbh I'm just having fun with this topic in general terms, after all, we're talking about a franchise that's had sound in space forever and where starships all share the same vertical plane and orientation as if there were a 'down' in space that everyone agrees on.
Everyone sharing "up and down" does make sense. You would have to use your position in relation to the galactic plane in order to determine course properly.
x,y,and z axis movement is independent, and it's not necessarily predicated on the galactic plane. for example, they could use a system derived from inertial navigation using fixed, known points, or expansion could've been begun along the Z axis instead of the X or Y axes, in which case 'down' is going to be different, and even using the galactic plane as your x/y doesnt' mean you're going to be the same 'up' as sophonts from as close as the next star system over.
further, "Down" is toward the gravity well if you're using it based on forces, and the biggest gravity well in the galaxy is right at the center. there's actually no practical reason for starships encountering each other to share a facing, where they're both using the same 'up' reference in the same way.
also the galaxy is three dimensions and while it looks 'thin', that thinness is quite a few hundred light years deep even in OUR end of the unfashionable western spiral arm of the milky-way. Direction of travel being "Forward" makes sense, but that doesn't assume approach angles would be the same. They could be perpendicular, for example, or his 'up' can be your 'down'.
The galaxy does, however, have a magnetic field, ergo a magnetic "north" and "south" that can be used to orient. But realistically, outside of having to dock at a space station or something of that nature, orientation is going to be down to any given crew's preference.
On that note, one of the cooler shots in the '09 Star Trek has the Enterprise approach the Narada almost upside-down relative.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
The galactic coordinate system, used for navigation, would of necessity have a three-dimensional (or more, depending on the number of spacelike dimensions in warp math) system, predicated most likely on a Cartesian-style grid centered on the galactic center of rotation (as the easiest point of reference no matter your relative location); however, you could approach such a point from nearly any "direction", so that ships should hang at all angles relative to one another.
On the other hand, that's confusing to the viewer - consider as an example the establishing shot of the Kelvin and the Narada in the '09 movie, in which no relative "vertical" is ever established for the viewer. It's realistic, and lends itself to the sensation of being in zero-g; however, it was difficult, until a much longer shot was set up, to understand the positions of the ships relative to one another. The convention of establishing a local vertical when two or more ships meet is much easier on us than a realistic depiction.
The galactic coordinate system, used for navigation, would of necessity have a three-dimensional (or more, depending on the number of spacelike dimensions in warp math) system, predicated most likely on a Cartesian-style grid centered on the galactic center of rotation (as the easiest point of reference no matter your relative location); however, you could approach such a point from nearly any "direction", so that ships should hang at all angles relative to one another.
On the other hand, that's confusing to the viewer - consider as an example the establishing shot of the Kelvin and the Narada in the '09 movie, in which no relative "vertical" is ever established for the viewer. It's realistic, and lends itself to the sensation of being in zero-g; however, it was difficult, until a much longer shot was set up, to understand the positions of the ships relative to one another. The convention of establishing a local vertical when two or more ships meet is much easier on us than a realistic depiction.
The galaxy being roughly circular, I tend to prefer cylindrical coordinates to Cartesian. The advantage being, that way there's only one axis you're defining arbitrarily, as opposed to two. You can get "up" and "down" from the galaxy's magnetic field as an elevation from the galactic plane (Sol is estimated somewhere between 75-101 LY above it currently). You can also base your horizontal position on the spin direction of the galaxy (0° still has to be determined arbitrarily; I expect the Federation uses the Sol system as its "prime meridian"), and your "depth" as a distance from the center.
Spherical coordinates are also possible but have the same problem as Cartesian: two axes have to be arbitrarily located.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Okay, catching up - and it turns out that at least at the Battle of the Binary Stars, there was a reason for a local "up". The ships had to orient themselves such that they could avoid the protoplanetary disc surrounding the (apparently quite young) stars. "Up" is then "away from the disc", for ease of navigation by creatures that evolved in a gravity field.
And the method by which Burnham got out of her cell was highly logical; if she stayed in her cell, the field was on the brink of collapse, and if the field just dropped, she was dead. The odds were against her chosen method succeeding - but it was the only thing that offered a better-than-zero chance of survival; it was clear there were no nearby personnel at all, as someone suffering from a highly obvious concussion was able to just stumble in under the impression he'd reached sickbay, so there was no rescue coming. And it wasn't a jailbreak, because she didn't escape, she actually sought out the very people who'd sent her to the brig in the first place.
Okay, catching up - and it turns out that at least at the Battle of the Binary Stars, there was a reason for a local "up". The ships had to orient themselves such that they could avoid the protoplanetary disc surrounding the (apparently quite young) stars. "Up" is then "away from the disc", for ease of navigation by creatures that evolved in a gravity field.
And the method by which Burnham got out of her cell was highly logical; if she stayed in her cell, the field was on the brink of collapse, and if the field just dropped, she was dead. The odds were against her chosen method succeeding - but it was the only thing that offered a better-than-zero chance of survival; it was clear there were no nearby personnel at all, as someone suffering from a highly obvious concussion was able to just stumble in under the impression he'd reached sickbay, so there was no rescue coming. And it wasn't a jailbreak, because she didn't escape, she actually sought out the very people who'd sent her to the brig in the first place.
What are you doing watching it in order to formulate an argument? You're not playing the game correctly @jonsills. You're supposed to rant based on hearsay and rumours.
I can only hope that when you did watch it you had the decency to only pay the minimum of attention and turn it off half way through once you'd guessed you'd seen all you needed to.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
No, artan, I'm afraid I'm a loose cannon who plays by his own rules, and the Chief will be demanding my badge by the end of the second act. I'm actually watching the episodes all the way through, being highly entertained so far, and seeing that about 80% of the complaints I've read are nonsense. (On the other hand, securing an area by breath analysis, possibly the least-accurate biometric method of all? That was silly.)
What is this? A well-constructed argument based on personal experience specifically arranged to allow the fairest and most accurate analysis possible (i.e. watching the full thing) and subsequently making a reasoned argument? Jon, don't you know this is the internet?!
To be honest, I don't care at all for the positioning of ships in space. I want them to look good and not have one float upside down - no show ever did this, so using this as a point of criticism for DSC is silly. Just as picking one very plausible (by established in-universe logic) thing and claiming letting people die is preferable to saving them because.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
and that's how it's always been done in every bit of sci-fi before and after too; there is no sci-fi i've ever seen where ships NOT in combat weren't right-side up relative to the camera nor where sounds didn't proliferate freely through a vacuum
in fact, ST 2009 was the first instance of the latter i EVER saw, even if it was only for a few seconds
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
> @ryan218 said:
> Who was backed up by @jonsills who actually served (I don't know about @starswordc) and thus is actually likely to have read the UCMJ. Heck, both actually referred you to the articles which actually relate to Burnham's situation.
Didn't serve myself (I tried to enlist but was declined because I'm on the autism spectrum), but I am part of a Navy family going back several generations and I can do research perfectly well. (If all else fails, my father was a surface warfare officer for five years and an engineering duty officer for fifteen, '79-'99.)
> @starkaos said:
> I have never understood why they would rely only on forcefields. Power goes down and everyone is doomed. Low tech solutions are usually the best since there are less things that can go wrong.
I could see force fields being a stopgap until a physical patch could be put in, but Star Trek overuses them significantly.
> @angrytarg said:
> I had to rewatch the scene and I really don't want to do that, but from what I remember Michael had to void-dive to the other side. That means the door could not be opened but the forcefields were failing. Sitting in that cell was certain death, risking the void dive was slightly less certain death. My memory is not that fresh but I am very certain they established that she could not just sit there.
This is exactly the scene as broadcast, Targ. The brig had been reduced to a chunk of wall and a floor. Pressure is being held by emergency force fields around Burnham; however, these are stated by the ship's computer to be IMMINENTLY failing. There is a pressure sealed DOOR about a dozen meters away, close enough for a physically fit person to void-jump to. Burnham is a Starfleet officer: we know at least as far back as VOY: "Learning Curve", as well as from a later episode of DSC, that extensive PT is part of the job. Plus, Burnham was raised on Vulcan, which has 1.5 Earth's gravity, and therefore is stronger than the average human female to begin with (probably not as strong as an actual Vulcan, though). We also know from the very next episode that she is a martial artist. She is physically fit.
So: Chance of survival if she stays in the cell, 0%. Chance of survival if she breaks out? Poor—she's still passing through hard vacuum unprotected—but non-zero.
chance that she endangers teh rest of the ship (or portions) opening that door? (unless they've conveniently placed additional airlocks:pretty good)
If you'd bothered to watch the scene you're analysing, you'd remember that the computer put up an additional forcefield to make sure when she opened the door pressure wasn't lost.
Oh, just reminded myself of this, which I'd meant to address after watching the scene in question. Your recollection is in error; the fields holding the atmosphere in place in the corridor were already there, and pressure had already been lost in the brig (else the cell's field dropping would not have been an issue). The only manipulation was the opening of a one-meter hole in the cell's field, so that Burnham could "surf" the escaping air and be blown to the corridor door in less than six seconds (well within the fifteen-second window the computer would permit). It would then open that door just long enough for her to get into the corridor, where there was still atmosphere.
"This is not entirely the Spock who has been formed enough to be the Spock that we know from TOS. There's a lot of story about who Spock was before he becomes the Spock that is the yin-yang to Kirk," Kurtzman told TV Guide. "What I'm so excited about is that we have an opportunity to present a version of Spock that's both totally consistent with the Spock everyone knows but very, very different. And it's all gonna tie to how we sync up with canon."
Does Kurtzman only speak in gobbilty-TRIBBLE? "We are going to see a consistent and inconsistent version of Spock". Well, par for the course here. Spock was not written consistently to begin with.
"We're certainly gonna see Spock and we're gonna be exploring those family dynamics," she said. "We're gonna see a lot between them." Added executive producer Heather Kadin, "I think that like any brother or sister, there's love. There's deep wells of stuff. That's what's so great about exploring that relationship, is there's a lot of tricky stuff that we get to dig into."
The aloof Vulcan... who never talks about his family (the entire reason his new-old half-sister is marginally acceptable) is going to be "all about the feels" with his half-sister that he never talks about.
Well, you did tell us Spock was going to be "inconsistent". You weren't wrong!
Dear writers of TRIBBLE,
Develop your own characters. Find your own voice. Stop digging up old characters to impress an audience that does not exist. You have an audience. Write for THEM.
Develop your own characters. Find your own voice. Stop digging up old characters to impress an audience that does not exist. You have an audience. Write for THEM.
Regardless of how they will handle S2 and Spock, I agree. The whole need to burden Spock on Michael and tie it all to everything is not a good way in my opinion.
If I had a say in the show I would have shown the earlier UFP ships fare in the conflict with the Klingons and facing some internal struggle due to crews mostly operating as all-Humans, all-Vulcans or all-Tellarites. I would have made the "Discovery" be the ship that evolves and sees the benefit of further cooperation between the peoples to develop to the (more) diverse UFP and Starfleet we know later.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Develop your own characters. Find your own voice. Stop digging up old characters to impress an audience that does not exist. You have an audience. Write for THEM.
Regardless of how they will handle S2 and Spock, I agree. The whole need to burden Spock on Michael and tie it all to everything is not a good way in my opinion.
If I had a say in the show I would have shown the earlier UFP ships fare in the conflict with the Klingons and facing some internal struggle due to crews mostly operating as all-Humans, all-Vulcans or all-Tellarites. I would have made the "Discovery" be the ship that evolves and sees the benefit of further cooperation between the peoples to develop to the (more) diverse UFP and Starfleet we know later.
Not to mention....SHOW MORE EXTERNAL SHIP SHOTS, and MORE SHIPS.
It's like they blew most of the budget getting Lorca's actor.
Yes, Spock as always and consistently been the stoic who never displays a trace of emotion.
The Cage is supposedly set in 2254 and set 2 years before Season 1 of Discovery since The Menagerie episode states that the Talos IV incident happened 13 years earlier. The death of his adopted sister between 2257 and 2265 could explain how a happy Vulcan could turn into a stoic Vulcan that never talks about his adopted sister.
Yes, Spock as always and consistently been the stoic who never displays a trace of emotion.
The Cage is supposedly set in 2254 and set 2 years before Season 1 of Discovery since The Menagerie episode states that the Talos IV incident happened 13 years earlier. The death of his adopted sister between 2257 and 2265 could explain how a happy Vulcan could turn into a stoic Vulcan that never talks about his adopted sister.
What I was commenting on, however, was the silly idea that the characterization of Spock has been utterly invariant across every single iteration of Trek, and showing a Spock who has any trace of emotion in ST:D would be "inconsistent" and "canon-breaking". Meanwhile, Spock himself would disagree, as expecting any living being, Vulcan or otherwise, to remain exactly the same in all major respects and never experience even a moment of personal development would be illogical.
Okay, getting back to the original topic, here's my problems with the series (as well as some things I like about it). Spoiler warning if you click links.
Con:
First half of the season is overall way too rushed. If they were going to have a major war arc, they needed to use Babylon 5's approach and take their time setting it up properly.
I dislike the hyper-focusing on Burnham. Not because I don't like her personally, but because I prefer the TNG/DS9 ensemble approach to the TOS/VOY/ENT "three or so characters are properly developed, everyone else is a talking prop" style.
The politics are done extremely poorly. If you want to allegorize current politics, i.e. nativism/ultranationalism/the alt-right, the Klingons and the mirror universe are completely the wrong kind of adversary to use. You need to think less "outside enemy" and more Terra Prime (or, the Vulcan "logic extremists" that were introduced in the episode with Sarek, or even Section 31), somebody who is inside your macroculture and doesn't like where it's going. (You can also combine that approach with the Klingon war and allegorize the European refugee crisis.)
One word: Culbergate. I'll let GeekDad's Jules Sherred (who is also admin of one of the major Star Trek discussion groups on Google+) explain further: 1, 2
Burnham and the Klingons. If you're going to write a basically racist main character like that, you need to be proving her wrong, not reinforcing the negative stereotype she professes at every opportunity.
I like certain episodes' focus on the experiences of soldiers at war ("Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum" in particular is pretty much totally about PTSD), it reminds me favorably of late DS9.
I could give a rat's TRIBBLE about the visuals and tech nitpicking, although the season 1 uniforms honestly would make more sense as dress instead of working/service uniforms.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Burnham and the Klingons. If you're going to write a basically racist main character like that, you need to be proving her wrong, not reinforcing the negative stereotype she professes at every opportunity.
Well, I take it like in the old westerns where you have the shell-shocked cavalry vet who's paranoid about indian attacks. He's terrified because he's seen what can happen and assumes the worst because he's SEEN the worst. The character comes across as a raving crazy, but... then you realize that it's not craziness and founded in reality.
> @markhawkman said: > Well, I take it like in the old westerns where you have the shell-shocked cavalry vet who's paranoid about indian attacks. He's terrified because he's seen what can happen and assumes the worst because he's SEEN the worst. The character comes across as a raving crazy, but... then you realize that it's not craziness and founded in reality.
Yeah, about that: you realize how ridiculously racist most of those old Westerns are?
There's a better and more relevant analogy available: an American who "hates Muslims", except the only thing he actually knows about Islam is bin Laden and those nineteen petaQs who did the 9/11 attacks. He doesn't know that Islam has nearly as many denominations and sects as Christianity, he doesn't know that the Qur'an explicitly commands Muslims to PROTECT members of other organized religions from persecution, and he especially doesn't know (or at least really believe) that most Muslims can't stand those bomb-wearing lunatics any more than he can.
How do you transpose that to Klingons? You don't shy away from the conflict, but you also take pains to show sides of Klingon culture that can be portrayed sympathetically: Klingons who actually practice what they preach WRT Kahlessian philosophy (e.g. Klingon culture values standing up for yourself and putting your money where your mouth is), Klingons who have a sense of humor, and Klingons who think T'Kuvma and Kol and their ilk are honorless petaQs and a bigger threat to the Empire than the Federation is.
Hell, DS9 managed to do some of that with the freaking Jem'hadar a couple times. The Klingons are easy mode.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
CBS owns Star Trek lock stock & barrel, they own any and all associated characters and can use them as they see fit.
And I can criticize their ham-fisted and shallow treatment of said characters as I see fit. I can also give them feedback in order to improve the quality of their sh't characters and writing.
Spock, showing up and saying technical stuff (before he starts braiding Burnham's hair) is trite. It's possible that he serves some purpose for the story, but it seems unlikely that it isn't a role that could be filled by any other character (maybe even the Discovery's own crew). He is fanservice to the detriment of Star Trek: Discovery developing it's own characters. Anything the writers do with this character will be criticized by detractors and overshadow the existing characters. He IS Spock, after all.
[*] One word: Culbergate. I'll let GeekDad's Jules Sherred (who is also admin of one of the major Star Trek discussion groups on Google+) explain further: 1, 2
I think we should have a dialogue about your "part 1" there.
If Culber doesn’t come back fully and completely and lives happily ever after with Stamets, then the showrunners are going to be dead to me because they’ve committed one of the many cardinal sins in regards to the treatment of TRIBBLE characters: using them as throwaway objects to serve the plot after tricking us into thinking we’d finally see ourselves in the franchise we love the most.
...
You do realize you ARE asking for special treatment, yes? You realize you are asking for "TRIBBLE" characters (at least this one) to be IMMUNE from death?
Let's talk about characters for a moment. Any character.
If your character is immune from death or bodily harm, that is "special treatment". The audience will not be invested if someone threatens said character. That character will be handed all their victories and we will not believe they were hard fought, because there is no threat of harm or even failure.
As our shows become more diverse, as more of the cast is composed of "minorities", those characters will have to step up. They will have to face harm, defeat, even death. I realize the internet is full of people who get their writing degree from MovieTropes.com, but we must change how we view these characters or we lessen them. We do those characters, and the audience, a disservice by infantilizing them, cocooned in a bubble of obvious plot armor.
The cast of Star Trek: Discovery has already stated they are bringing Culber back. You won. This character, and his relatioship to Stamets, is inviolate. Nothing will ever tear them apart. As a result, their "destined love" is now hollow and meaningless. They did not choose to be together. YOU chose for them to be together. They will never grow. We will never feel any tension if their relationship is threatened because they are fated to be together.
I think - but could be totally wrong - that they wanted the Klingons to feel like unknown aliens anymore. In the 23rd century, "we" don't really understand Klingons yet. Changing their look again might also help the feeling of unknown to the audience. (Though I kinda feel the bigger reason for the make-up might be the "there's a new boss in the office and he needs to his stamps on everything").
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Comments
I'm referring to the people who would rather their prisoners die
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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On that note, one of the cooler shots in the '09 Star Trek has the Enterprise approach the Narada almost upside-down relative.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
On the other hand, that's confusing to the viewer - consider as an example the establishing shot of the Kelvin and the Narada in the '09 movie, in which no relative "vertical" is ever established for the viewer. It's realistic, and lends itself to the sensation of being in zero-g; however, it was difficult, until a much longer shot was set up, to understand the positions of the ships relative to one another. The convention of establishing a local vertical when two or more ships meet is much easier on us than a realistic depiction.
The galaxy being roughly circular, I tend to prefer cylindrical coordinates to Cartesian. The advantage being, that way there's only one axis you're defining arbitrarily, as opposed to two. You can get "up" and "down" from the galaxy's magnetic field as an elevation from the galactic plane (Sol is estimated somewhere between 75-101 LY above it currently). You can also base your horizontal position on the spin direction of the galaxy (0° still has to be determined arbitrarily; I expect the Federation uses the Sol system as its "prime meridian"), and your "depth" as a distance from the center.
Spherical coordinates are also possible but have the same problem as Cartesian: two axes have to be arbitrarily located.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
And the method by which Burnham got out of her cell was highly logical; if she stayed in her cell, the field was on the brink of collapse, and if the field just dropped, she was dead. The odds were against her chosen method succeeding - but it was the only thing that offered a better-than-zero chance of survival; it was clear there were no nearby personnel at all, as someone suffering from a highly obvious concussion was able to just stumble in under the impression he'd reached sickbay, so there was no rescue coming. And it wasn't a jailbreak, because she didn't escape, she actually sought out the very people who'd sent her to the brig in the first place.
What are you doing watching it in order to formulate an argument? You're not playing the game correctly @jonsills. You're supposed to rant based on hearsay and rumours.
I can only hope that when you did watch it you had the decency to only pay the minimum of attention and turn it off half way through once you'd guessed you'd seen all you needed to.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
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in fact, ST 2009 was the first instance of the latter i EVER saw, even if it was only for a few seconds
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Something about Spock in Star Trek: Discovery?
https://www.tvguide.com/news/star-trek-discovery-season-2-spock-different/
Does Kurtzman only speak in gobbilty-TRIBBLE? "We are going to see a consistent and inconsistent version of Spock". Well, par for the course here. Spock was not written consistently to begin with. The aloof Vulcan... who never talks about his family (the entire reason his new-old half-sister is marginally acceptable) is going to be "all about the feels" with his half-sister that he never talks about.
Well, you did tell us Spock was going to be "inconsistent". You weren't wrong!
Dear writers of TRIBBLE,
Develop your own characters. Find your own voice. Stop digging up old characters to impress an audience that does not exist. You have an audience. Write for THEM.
Regardless of how they will handle S2 and Spock, I agree. The whole need to burden Spock on Michael and tie it all to everything is not a good way in my opinion.
If I had a say in the show I would have shown the earlier UFP ships fare in the conflict with the Klingons and facing some internal struggle due to crews mostly operating as all-Humans, all-Vulcans or all-Tellarites. I would have made the "Discovery" be the ship that evolves and sees the benefit of further cooperation between the peoples to develop to the (more) diverse UFP and Starfleet we know later.
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Not to mention....SHOW MORE EXTERNAL SHIP SHOTS, and MORE SHIPS.
It's like they blew most of the budget getting Lorca's actor.
The Cage is supposedly set in 2254 and set 2 years before Season 1 of Discovery since The Menagerie episode states that the Talos IV incident happened 13 years earlier. The death of his adopted sister between 2257 and 2265 could explain how a happy Vulcan could turn into a stoic Vulcan that never talks about his adopted sister.
Con:
Pro:
I could give a rat's TRIBBLE about the visuals and tech nitpicking, although the season 1 uniforms honestly would make more sense as dress instead of working/service uniforms.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
My character Tsin'xing
> Well, I take it like in the old westerns where you have the shell-shocked cavalry vet who's paranoid about indian attacks. He's terrified because he's seen what can happen and assumes the worst because he's SEEN the worst. The character comes across as a raving crazy, but... then you realize that it's not craziness and founded in reality.
Yeah, about that: you realize how ridiculously racist most of those old Westerns are?
There's a better and more relevant analogy available: an American who "hates Muslims", except the only thing he actually knows about Islam is bin Laden and those nineteen petaQs who did the 9/11 attacks. He doesn't know that Islam has nearly as many denominations and sects as Christianity, he doesn't know that the Qur'an explicitly commands Muslims to PROTECT members of other organized religions from persecution, and he especially doesn't know (or at least really believe) that most Muslims can't stand those bomb-wearing lunatics any more than he can.
How do you transpose that to Klingons? You don't shy away from the conflict, but you also take pains to show sides of Klingon culture that can be portrayed sympathetically: Klingons who actually practice what they preach WRT Kahlessian philosophy (e.g. Klingon culture values standing up for yourself and putting your money where your mouth is), Klingons who have a sense of humor, and Klingons who think T'Kuvma and Kol and their ilk are honorless petaQs and a bigger threat to the Empire than the Federation is.
Hell, DS9 managed to do some of that with the freaking Jem'hadar a couple times. The Klingons are easy mode.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Spock, showing up and saying technical stuff (before he starts braiding Burnham's hair) is trite. It's possible that he serves some purpose for the story, but it seems unlikely that it isn't a role that could be filled by any other character (maybe even the Discovery's own crew). He is fanservice to the detriment of Star Trek: Discovery developing it's own characters. Anything the writers do with this character will be criticized by detractors and overshadow the existing characters. He IS Spock, after all.
You do realize you ARE asking for special treatment, yes? You realize you are asking for "TRIBBLE" characters (at least this one) to be IMMUNE from death?
Let's talk about characters for a moment. Any character.
If your character is immune from death or bodily harm, that is "special treatment". The audience will not be invested if someone threatens said character. That character will be handed all their victories and we will not believe they were hard fought, because there is no threat of harm or even failure.
As our shows become more diverse, as more of the cast is composed of "minorities", those characters will have to step up. They will have to face harm, defeat, even death. I realize the internet is full of people who get their writing degree from MovieTropes.com, but we must change how we view these characters or we lessen them. We do those characters, and the audience, a disservice by infantilizing them, cocooned in a bubble of obvious plot armor.
The cast of Star Trek: Discovery has already stated they are bringing Culber back. You won. This character, and his relatioship to Stamets, is inviolate. Nothing will ever tear them apart. As a result, their "destined love" is now hollow and meaningless. They did not choose to be together. YOU chose for them to be together. They will never grow. We will never feel any tension if their relationship is threatened because they are fated to be together.