Consider Worf could resign from service, do whatever he wanted in Klingonland and then return to serve multiple times with not much than an annoyed sigh as Picard had to file paperwork now. I think Worf was still a UFP citizen, being raised on Earth and all.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Consider Worf could resign from service, do whatever he wanted in Klingonland and then return to serve multiple times with not much than an annoyed sigh as Picard had to file paperwork now. I think Worf was still a UFP citizen, being raised on Earth and all.
Resigning his commission from Starfleet doesn't mean his citizenship in the UFP went with it, at least until the UFP withdrew that citizenship itself.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
> @mustrumridcully0 said: > artan42 wrote: » > > Cardboard ones where the main character is a dog named Spot. > > > > Ridicilous. Spot is clearly a cat name. (We don't know if male or female, though.)
Does it matter? Sexist!
XD
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
> @mustrumridcully0 said:
> artan42 wrote: »
>
> Cardboard ones where the main character is a dog named Spot.
>
>
>
> Ridicilous. Spot is clearly a cat name. (We don't know if male or female, though.)
Does it matter? Sexist!
XD
It depends on if you want kittens or not.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
To be honest Picard should have been pulled from field duty the moment "Best of Both Worlds" ended. Him keeping his command should have been something he had to fight for, not just take for granted... not to mention the oddity of Captain Riker taking a demotion without explanation.
He didn't need to take it. There's no reason there couldn't be more than one rank of captain on-board.
I just assume Starfleet ranks are like sweeties. You hand them out for good behaviour but you're not particularly cut up if they get taken off you.
Besides, it's not like that mean anything. The main cast does everything and the red/gold (burgundy/green/copper) shirts do the dying even if they outrank the main cast.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
The problem with that idea is that having a 5-year old as an advisor is only workable in cartoons. The problem is that they don't know what going on and tend to use overly simplistic logic. [/quote]
Well, sure. However, that wasn't really my point. We see Picard right back in the chair at the end of Chain of Command Pt. II.
Whilst I agree with the census that the Tyler-Voq plot was a bit of a mess, and didn't really make much sense, regarding Picard and his sudden recovery; is it not possible that in several hundred years from now there's technology to better aid and support Starfleet Captains that have undergone emotional trauma?
Well, sure. However, that wasn't really my point. We see Picard right back in the chair at the end of Chain of Command Pt. II.
Whilst I agree with the census that the Tyler-Voq plot was a bit of a mess, and didn't really make much sense, regarding Picard and his sudden recovery; is it not possible that in several hundred years from now there's technology to better aid and support Starfleet Captains that have undergone emotional trauma?
Wouldn't that technology by definition tend to reveal/uncover subliminal programming or personality overlays? or at the very least, recognize altered biochemistry and bone grafts? (I mean, we can do it today in the 21st century and have been able to do the "Well, these bones were definitely grafted" since the advent of ultrasound, much less MRI technology.) We've also had the ability to do DNA identification since the 1980s, it's pretty questionable that a surgical alteration like Tylervoq would pass the basic security physical after being rescued, much less pass it well enough to be named security officer of an active starship. The assumptions involved with the entire plot pretty much collapse unless Tyler had a Klingon in the ancestral woodpile to account for the different proteins in his DNA.
which in turn rolls it right back into snapping the suspenders of disbelief. Even a non-invasive scan to reactivate his security clearances would've outed him in 2005, never mind 2256.
That was something that probably many people watching the show wondered about, and there is an explanation in the show, which ends in Culber's unfortunate demise as he realizes the error.
They have a standard Manchurian Candidate Test for prisoners of war which they conducted. But it didn't catch this, because it checks for things that imply changes to the original personality of the patient. But the original personality wasn't altered, it was still there. Instead, they overlayed Voq's real personality with Ash Tyler. That is apparently something the standard tests for this didn't show.
The physical changes were seen as consistent with brutal torture. "When you hear hoofbeats, think of horses not zebras", as Dr. Theodore Woodward said back in the days...
It's obviously an extreme and unusual idea to take a Klingon and turn him into a human by severe surgical alteration, and somehow creating a mental copy of a whole person and overlay it over someone else's.
It might explain why McCoy was able to identify Arneson rather quickly with his tricorder 10 years later once suspicion was aroused - they knew about this Klingon trick by then.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Well, sure. However, that wasn't really my point. We see Picard right back in the chair at the end of Chain of Command Pt. II.
Whilst I agree with the census that the Tyler-Voq plot was a bit of a mess, and didn't really make much sense, regarding Picard and his sudden recovery; is it not possible that in several hundred years from now there's technology to better aid and support Starfleet Captains that have undergone emotional trauma?
Wouldn't that technology by definition tend to reveal/uncover subliminal programming or personality overlays? or at the very least, recognize altered biochemistry and bone grafts? (I mean, we can do it today in the 21st century and have been able to do the "Well, these bones were definitely grafted" since the advent of ultrasound, much less MRI technology.) We've also had the ability to do DNA identification since the 1980s, it's pretty questionable that a surgical alteration like Tylervoq would pass the basic security physical after being rescued, much less pass it well enough to be named security officer of an active starship. The assumptions involved with the entire plot pretty much collapse unless Tyler had a Klingon in the ancestral woodpile to account for the different proteins in his DNA.
I was specifically on about Pircard's era, not Tyler-Voq's.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
DNA can be altered in star trek; the cardassians did it to kira when they turned her into iliana ghemor
about a century AFTER the era we're talking about, using technology developed during long, close proximity occupation amounting to decades of research and experimentation to get it right and it was still highly classified tech. This is kind of like opening a time-capsule from 1900 and expecting to find an Apple I-Phone current generation inside when "State of t he Art" for electronics was a 1 horsepower DC motor.
And the Klingons took their technology from the Cardassians? Klingons had transporter and warp technology before the humans did (and probably also before the Cardassians had it, though I think there are no clear statements on when the Cardassians became warp-capable.)
There is clearly no reason to assume that technology between the different species develops around the same time, simply because there is plenty of examples already that it did not. Nor is there any suggestion in Star Trek that only one species develops a technology, and then the rest copy it.
What matters is that in Star Trek, fundamentally, altering someone's DNA to be that of a different species is possible. And apparently without causing cancer. (Or maybe cancer is a common occurence among space travelling species that are constantly exposed to radiation from warp engines, that the treatment is equally common and not worth discussing. Kinda like McCoy can regrow someone's kidney with a single pill he happens to have in his medical bag...)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
DNA can be altered in star trek; the cardassians did it to kira when they turned her into iliana ghemor
about a century AFTER the era we're talking about, using technology developed during long, close proximity occupation amounting to decades of research and experimentation to get it right and it was still highly classified tech. This is kind of like opening a time-capsule from 1900 and expecting to find an Apple I-Phone current generation inside when "State of t he Art" for electronics was a 1 horsepower DC motor.
Everything you just said is nothing but your own head-canon.
to be able to blend the DNA of another race into your own, you need to have at least a basic understanding of how to alter DNA from one species to another - and the klingons had that a hundred years ago, even if their blending attempts kind of...blew up in their faces
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
a war without any decent large space battle. and/or not large enough.
dystopian visual and storytelling (trek's success and rewatchability value is in it's utopian ambiance)
no mirror opening sequence
they put Andorians and Tellarites on the rebel council, can live with the visual changes but they should have some script ...
the story about how the war began was unsatisfying. the Vulcan-Hello would have been every captain's choice. and the story that ended it well was not for me ...
Okay, so to be fair I'll also list a few bullet points, even positive ones
Likes
The opening theme - I think DSC's theme music is fantastic. It carries classic tunes with a certain "marvel" of discovery. I really like it.
The props - I like the "refurbished" equipment, communicator, phaser, tricorder, cartridge-readers, food dispensers - this works for me
Stamets, Tilly and (for the most part) Saru - the most fleshed out and likeable characters of the show
Certain vfx - the transporter effect is solid, I like the pre-TOS phaser turrets and I won't deny the overall quality of the CGI was very high, if only a bit dark (visually dark)
Rainn Wilson as Harry Mudd - *applauds*
The setting (in principle) - I like the time frame and immediate era to follow. However...
Dislikes (A lot of those could be summarized under "design" honestly)
It's not a prequel - it's one of those shows that wants to pretend it's a prequel, but doesn't really give us much save a few name drops. Disappointing.
The opening animation - seriously, it's just not good.
Klingorcs - I am not a fan of the redesign of the Klingons, no I do not see they're the same as the other Klingons , just watch Enterprise and then follow up with Discovery. Further, nothing in this plot had required Klingons to appear at all - this could have easily been a original faction.
Mirror Universe - It was visually cool, but it doesn't change it's way, waaaaay overused. It's gone the way of the Borg. Just stahp. It's dead.
The magic mushroom drive - Not a single thing about this makes sense. Not how it's supposed to work, not what they use it for and not in the light of things the Federation faces and never uses it again. Again, if you make a prequel try to make your Macguffin fit in somehow.
"It's darker and grittier" - Don't pretend that. This is "the modern streaming show" period. In fact, watch DSC and The Expanse back to back - if iconography and names would have been removed you cannot tell the shows apart. The style of this kind of show are way overdone and I am personally just tired of the cynicism involved.
Certain v/sfx - the new disintegration effect from Disruptors, complete with a video game "100 points" jingle. Seriously?
The war story - Not only do we have one of those - again - but this time it felt really short. In fact, every plot in DSC fell really short because they tried to cram at least three different storylines into one season and I personally felt not one of those got enough time to even remotely feel satisfactorily told.
I think to cut it short, DSC was overambitious and tried to be too many things at once. The visual (re)design choices are a matter of taste, I dislike most of them but don't mind others. For instance, I dislike the Starfleet uniforms but I realize it is Trek tradition to have every series have completely unique visuals for the main cast, even if that means an entire intergalactic organization is structurally completely refitted every few years. In my lab we can't get any work done when they fix the ventilation for three hours a day, can you imagine how much work Starfleet personnel gets done when they get their ships, uniform and utilities completely refitted and changed from under their butts every few years?
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Okay, so to be fair I'll also list a few bullet points, even positive ones
Likes
The opening theme - I think DSC's theme music is fantastic. It carries classic tunes with a certain "marvel" of discovery. I really like it.
The props - I like the "refurbished" equipment, communicator, phaser, tricorder, cartridge-readers, food dispensers - this works for me
Stamets, Tilly and (for the most part) Saru - the most fleshed out and likeable characters of the show
Certain vfx - the transporter effect is solid, I like the pre-TOS phaser turrets and I won't deny the overall quality of the CGI was very high, if only a bit dark (visually dark)
Rainn Wilson as Harry Mudd - *applauds*
The setting (in principle) - I like the time frame and immediate era to follow. However...
Dislikes (A lot of those could be summarized under "design" honestly)
It's not a prequel - it's one of those shows that wants to pretend it's a prequel, but doesn't really give us much save a few name drops. Disappointing.
The opening animation - seriously, it's just not good.
Klingorcs - I am not a fan of the redesign of the Klingons, no I do not see they're the same as the other Klingons , just watch Enterprise and then follow up with Discovery. Further, nothing in this plot had required Klingons to appear at all - this could have easily been a original faction.
Mirror Universe - It was visually cool, but it doesn't change it's way, waaaaay overused. It's gone the way of the Borg. Just stahp. It's dead.
The magic mushroom drive - Not a single thing about this makes sense. Not how it's supposed to work, not what they use it for and not in the light of things the Federation faces and never uses it again. Again, if you make a prequel try to make your Macguffin fit in somehow.
"It's darker and grittier" - Don't pretend that. This is "the modern streaming show" period. In fact, watch DSC and The Expanse back to back - if iconography and names would have been removed you cannot tell the shows apart. The style of this kind of show are way overdone and I am personally just tired of the cynicism involved.
Certain v/sfx - the new disintegration effect from Disruptors, complete with a video game "100 points" jingle. Seriously?
The war story - Not only do we have one of those - again - but this time it felt really short. In fact, every plot in DSC fell really short because they tried to cram at least three different storylines into one season and I personally felt not one of those got enough time to even remotely feel satisfactorily told.
I think to cut it short, DSC was overambitious and tried to be too many things at once. The visual (re)design choices are a matter of taste, I dislike most of them but don't mind others. For instance, I dislike the Starfleet uniforms but I realize it is Trek tradition to have every series have completely unique visuals for the main cast, even if that means an entire intergalactic organization is structurally completely refitted every few years. In my lab we can't get any work done when they fix the ventilation for three hours a day, can you imagine how much work Starfleet personnel gets done when they get their ships, uniform and utilities completely refitted and changed from under their butts every few years?
Another thing that fell short, but that's a serious question as I honestly can't remember, what about the "black badges" that were prominently mentioned in the first non-prologue episode? The show completely forgot about those didn't it?
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Another thing that fell short, but that's a serious question as I honestly can't remember, what about the "black badges" that were prominently mentioned in the first non-prologue episode? The show completely forgot about those didn't it?
I get the feeling that was a lot more mundane than it came across as.
Comments
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Resigning his commission from Starfleet doesn't mean his citizenship in the UFP went with it, at least until the UFP withdrew that citizenship itself.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
> artan42 wrote: »
>
> Cardboard ones where the main character is a dog named Spot.
>
>
>
> Ridicilous. Spot is clearly a cat name. (We don't know if male or female, though.)
Does it matter? Sexist!
XD
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It depends on if you want kittens or not.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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I just assume Starfleet ranks are like sweeties. You hand them out for good behaviour but you're not particularly cut up if they get taken off you.
Besides, it's not like that mean anything. The main cast does everything and the red/gold (burgundy/green/copper) shirts do the dying even if they outrank the main cast.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Our politicians do it all the time. >_>
That was something that probably many people watching the show wondered about, and there is an explanation in the show, which ends in Culber's unfortunate demise as he realizes the error.
They have a standard Manchurian Candidate Test for prisoners of war which they conducted. But it didn't catch this, because it checks for things that imply changes to the original personality of the patient. But the original personality wasn't altered, it was still there. Instead, they overlayed Voq's real personality with Ash Tyler. That is apparently something the standard tests for this didn't show.
The physical changes were seen as consistent with brutal torture. "When you hear hoofbeats, think of horses not zebras", as Dr. Theodore Woodward said back in the days...
It's obviously an extreme and unusual idea to take a Klingon and turn him into a human by severe surgical alteration, and somehow creating a mental copy of a whole person and overlay it over someone else's.
It might explain why McCoy was able to identify Arneson rather quickly with his tricorder 10 years later once suspicion was aroused - they knew about this Klingon trick by then.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
There is clearly no reason to assume that technology between the different species develops around the same time, simply because there is plenty of examples already that it did not. Nor is there any suggestion in Star Trek that only one species develops a technology, and then the rest copy it.
What matters is that in Star Trek, fundamentally, altering someone's DNA to be that of a different species is possible. And apparently without causing cancer. (Or maybe cancer is a common occurence among space travelling species that are constantly exposed to radiation from warp engines, that the treatment is equally common and not worth discussing. Kinda like McCoy can regrow someone's kidney with a single pill he happens to have in his medical bag...)
My character Tsin'xing
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
http://www.treknews.net/2018/02/26/star-trek-discovery-discussion/
don't like
Brick Mutant Cannibal Klingons
Subtitles, Holograms, Holodeck
a war without any decent large space battle. and/or not large enough.
dystopian visual and storytelling (trek's success and rewatchability value is in it's utopian ambiance)
no mirror opening sequence
they put Andorians and Tellarites on the rebel council, can live with the visual changes but they should have some script ...
the story about how the war began was unsatisfying. the Vulcan-Hello would have been every captain's choice. and the story that ended it well was not for me ...
Likes
Dislikes (A lot of those could be summarized under "design" honestly)
I think to cut it short, DSC was overambitious and tried to be too many things at once. The visual (re)design choices are a matter of taste, I dislike most of them but don't mind others. For instance, I dislike the Starfleet uniforms but I realize it is Trek tradition to have every series have completely unique visuals for the main cast, even if that means an entire intergalactic organization is structurally completely refitted every few years. In my lab we can't get any work done when they fix the ventilation for three hours a day, can you imagine how much work Starfleet personnel gets done when they get their ships, uniform and utilities completely refitted and changed from under their butts every few years?
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
My character Tsin'xing