I'm more curious where you're getting the 500 million figure from in your "After Star Trek 2009, there was an expectation for each movie to make 500 mil" comment.
Every 6 months, Paramount changes significant portions of it's management, and they are all desperate to produce a "blockbuster" and turn the company around.
Because Paramount needed another blockbuster. BADLY.
So does just about every other film studio out there. Not all of them are Disney and can afford a John Carter level box office flop.
I'm more curious where you're getting the 500 million figure from in your "After Star Trek 2009, there was an expectation for each movie to make 500 mil" comment.
I quite liked John Carter of Mars a lot, myself. Better than most of the TRIBBLE that was out at the time. And I loved the old Barsom stories.
Because Paramount needed another blockbuster. BADLY.
So does just about every other film studio out there. Not all of them are Disney and can afford a John Carter level box office flop.
I'm more curious where you're getting the 500 million figure from in your "After Star Trek 2009, there was an expectation for each movie to make 500 mil" comment.
I quite liked John Carter of Mars a lot, myself. Better than most of the **** that was out at the time. And I loved the old Barsom stories.
Just proves that you can never trust what other people say when it comes to what you will like. Far too often, critically-acclaimed movies are boring dreck.
Just proves that you can never trust what other people say when it comes to what you will like. Far too often, critically-acclaimed movies are boring dreck.
Heh, Avatar anyone? The hype and obviously bought hype from critics was so intense but it looked like a XBOX-game even when it was released while people tripped over themselves gushing how "believable" that "fantastic new world" was
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
and on the plus side, very few liked the 2004 van helsing, but i enjoyed it because of the big, sexy werewoof in it - and the big, sexy hugh jackman too, who turned into said big, sexy werewoof later on in the film
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Because Paramount needed another blockbuster. BADLY.
So does just about every other film studio out there. Not all of them are Disney and can afford a John Carter level box office flop.
I'm more curious where you're getting the 500 million figure from in your "After Star Trek 2009, there was an expectation for each movie to make 500 mil" comment.
I quite liked John Carter of Mars a lot, myself. Better than most of the **** that was out at the time. And I loved the old Barsom stories.
Just proves that you can never trust what other people say when it comes to what you will like. Far too often, critically-acclaimed movies are boring dreck.
To me, film critics are about as useful as putting a hubcap on a tractor. >_>
That's my point. The story of the movie was archetypical. I'd go for "Dances with Wolves" rather than Ferngully or you can go Last Samura, it's exchangeable. But Avatar's special effects weren't even that great, and that's what I can't wrap my head around. Nobody who has in their entire life ever seen a movie, a video game or even CGI in a magazine could have been "blown away" by it. The only case I'd generally believe someone being that impressed with Avatar's visuals is that of a stereotypical amish being imprisoned in a house for their entire life and Avatar was the first thing they saw after being rescued. If you aren't the kind of person jumping out of the way screaming because you see footage of a train coming at you then you are full of it praising Avatar's visuals the way it has been done. And even if the people would genuinely be impressed, I wouldn't believe them
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
That link still doesn't show where Paramount handed down the edict that "After Star Trek 2009, there was an expectation for each movie to make 500 mil" as you had commented. You made it sound as if Trek films don't pull in 500 million, Paramount would never make another. If that were true, there never would have been a ST:ID of ST Beyond. Sure, Paramount would have loved for Trek films to hit those numbers, but I don't see any indication that's what Paramount was banking on as the franchise - even at it's absolute best - never brought in that kind of money. To all of a sudden expect it to is kind of silly.
I don't know where your confusion is.
Paramount is broke. There is a perception in the industry that Star Trek (particularly the JJ-verse) is not going to be the big thing Paramount needs to get out of debt. At this point, Paramount is only betting on "sure things", which Star Trek is NOT.
Until Paramount gets into the black, they are not going to make another Star Trek because it won't make them the money they desperately need. The JJ-verse fell short of expectations. That was the whole point.
Avatar was what I call "Special Effects ****"-the story was a lift straight from the early nineties animated flick "Ferngully" (but set in Spaaace!!!), and while they had great acting talent, it didn't save the movie from a weak premise and weaker script. After sitting through it with the future ex-wife, I walked out of the theatre feeling a lot like I did after seeing waterworld-that is, I felt that there was a block of time I could never get back, and I really wanted to.
Actually... it wasn't Ferngully.
lol amazing how just replacing a few words reveals a new movie.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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Actually, Pocahontas predates all of that by about 400 years (1607).
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I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Avatar is just another hair-brained re-skining of the archetypical eco-fable. Where noble primitives miraculously fend off the march of an industrialized civilization... like happens never. Even better, this time around the technology gradient is so sharp that not only do the invaders have interstellar travel, orbital reconnaissance, and weaponized air-power, they have the exact same 'secret advantage' the tribals do -- the ability to connect the minds of two different animals -- and the humans can actually do it wirelessly/remotely! Ooops. Looks like the writers forgot their core conceit of putting dudebro-whitebread-heroguy into a native's body might have implications for military applications... Meaning about a month after the fight at the end of the movie they're gonna have digital plugs to shove into the backs of the skulls of Pandora's wildlife and be running whole herds of them around like organic drones.
Beyond the asinine morality play, the juvenile romance, and the xbox-grade FX, it also features amazing sequences like the ground battle for no goddamn reason at all. There was nothing down there the humans needed. You don't need boots onthe ground to do a bombing run! They landed troops for exactly zero reason other than to have a fight which mostly showed that you they maybe should have been using tanks instead of walkers... like we do here in the real world.
Talking about Hollwood accountting ... One thing people seem to forget is only the GROSS numbers are posted on the news and various sites. Not the NET profits. When you look at the estimated (another number that we really don't know is the actual cost) budget and thanks to that and other disgused and hidden costs the true profits or losses are even more secure then Shatner's toupee. So even a utter failure can look like it's a winnern
That's my point. The story of the movie was archetypical. I'd go for "Dances with Wolves" rather than Ferngully or you can go Last Samura, it's exchangeable. But Avatar's special effects weren't even that great, and that's what I can't wrap my head around. Nobody who has in their entire life ever seen a movie, a video game or even CGI in a magazine could have been "blown away" by it. The only case I'd generally believe someone being that impressed with Avatar's visuals is that of a stereotypical amish being imprisoned in a house for their entire life and Avatar was the first thing they saw after being rescued. If you aren't the kind of person jumping out of the way screaming because you see footage of a train coming at you then you are full of it praising Avatar's visuals the way it has been done. And even if the people would genuinely be impressed, I wouldn't believe them
eh, some of it was really good visually-though not the parts that got all the hype. The problem I had with it, was the thin-as-**** writing. Dances with Wolves was the Noble Savage story done correctly. Last Samurai could've been done better, but holds up if you can suspend disbelief long enough to accept the Tom Cruise character wouldn't have been killed immediately as a foreign invader.
Avatar, on the other hand, compares with Ferngully in how ham-handed the execution was. It was BAD, because like Ferngully, the characters that SHOULD have been interesting, were pretty much ignored beyond their plot points, and the 'hero' was about as boring as you could get-which is a real accomplishment when the hero is a paraplegic.
I really disliked how some things were raised in the THEATRICAL release and fluffed off with regards to why the "avatar" researchers were thrown out of the tribal areas and the school was closed. It wasn't until much later I was given the full unedited set that the story finally made a hell of a lot (well maybe a bit more) more sense. I both love and hate Avatar at the same time. One thing that irks me to no end is the efx's remarks. Avatar looks a sh#t load better then Sully the CGI is a joke in many scenes I saw better back when 640x480 was god.
Actually, Pocahontas predates all of that by about 400 years (1607).
HISTORICAL Pocahontas predates by 400 years, Disney's version
Actually... there's a reason why Disney chose that story. They don't start with boring stories after all. The historical figure was said to have convinced her father to spare the lives of several people who he'd planned to execute for trespassing. She later married one of them and moved to England with him.
Just proves that you can never trust what other people say when it comes to what you will like. Far too often, critically-acclaimed movies are boring dreck.
Heh, Avatar anyone? The hype and obviously bought hype from critics was so intense but it looked like a XBOX-game even when it was released while people tripped over themselves gushing how "believable" that "fantastic new world" was
Avatar was what I call "Special Effects ****"-the story was a lift straight from the early nineties animated flick "Ferngully" (but set in Spaaace!!!), and while they had great acting talent, it didn't save the movie from a weak premise and weaker script. After sitting through it with the future ex-wife, I walked out of the theatre feeling a lot like I did after seeing waterworld-that is, I felt that there was a block of time I could never get back, and I really wanted to.
Actually it was more Dances with Wolves....in spaaaaccccce.
I believe what @patrickngo is referring to is Cameron's comment that he had the idea for Avatar in the mid-90s (around the time he and Schwarzenegger were making True Lies, for reference, and before Dances with Wolves came out), he just didn't think the special effects technology of the time was up to it so he sat on the idea for ten years or so.
But I completely agree that it was derivative: frankly the "mighty whitey" plot in general needs to be taken out back and shot.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Comments
Every 6 months, Paramount changes significant portions of it's management, and they are all desperate to produce a "blockbuster" and turn the company around.
I quite liked John Carter of Mars a lot, myself. Better than most of the TRIBBLE that was out at the time. And I loved the old Barsom stories.
Just proves that you can never trust what other people say when it comes to what you will like. Far too often, critically-acclaimed movies are boring dreck.
Heh, Avatar anyone? The hype and obviously bought hype from critics was so intense but it looked like a XBOX-game even when it was released while people tripped over themselves gushing how "believable" that "fantastic new world" was
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A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
To me, film critics are about as useful as putting a hubcap on a tractor. >_>
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Paramount is broke. There is a perception in the industry that Star Trek (particularly the JJ-verse) is not going to be the big thing Paramount needs to get out of debt. At this point, Paramount is only betting on "sure things", which Star Trek is NOT.
Until Paramount gets into the black, they are not going to make another Star Trek because it won't make them the money they desperately need. The JJ-verse fell short of expectations. That was the whole point.
You keep hammering on about Star Trek making "plenty of money", except it did not. "Hollywood studio to make more family movies and rebrand TV channel after duds such as Ben-Hur and Star Trek Beyond" - the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/mar/30/paramount-disney-flops-hollywood-ben-hur-star-trek-beyond
Actually... it wasn't Ferngully.
lol amazing how just replacing a few words reveals a new movie.
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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114148/
Avatar was 2009
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0499549/
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Beyond the asinine morality play, the juvenile romance, and the xbox-grade FX, it also features amazing sequences like the ground battle for no goddamn reason at all. There was nothing down there the humans needed. You don't need boots onthe ground to do a bombing run! They landed troops for exactly zero reason other than to have a fight which mostly showed that you they maybe should have been using tanks instead of walkers... like we do here in the real world.
Avatar... not a fan.
I really disliked how some things were raised in the THEATRICAL release and fluffed off with regards to why the "avatar" researchers were thrown out of the tribal areas and the school was closed. It wasn't until much later I was given the full unedited set that the story finally made a hell of a lot (well maybe a bit more) more sense. I both love and hate Avatar at the same time. One thing that irks me to no end is the efx's remarks. Avatar looks a sh#t load better then Sully the CGI is a joke in many scenes I saw better back when 640x480 was god.
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Actually it was more Dances with Wolves....in spaaaaccccce.
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> Pocahontas came out in '95.
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114148/
> Avatar was 2009
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0499549/
I believe what @patrickngo is referring to is Cameron's comment that he had the idea for Avatar in the mid-90s (around the time he and Schwarzenegger were making True Lies, for reference, and before Dances with Wolves came out), he just didn't think the special effects technology of the time was up to it so he sat on the idea for ten years or so.
But I completely agree that it was derivative: frankly the "mighty whitey" plot in general needs to be taken out back and shot.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"