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What would you nerf?

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  • ash352ash352 Member Posts: 235 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    ssbn655 wrote: »
    Why you ask should they? Ok it's like saying a Cop on the beat should have the same gear and skill set as a SEAL. Get it? That is the difference. Tac is pure combat and the weapon damage should be higher. I guess that is beyond your understanding. You want to punish one group as you think that you should be just as good dealing out weapon damage as a Sci as a Tac Capt. . Sorry Tac isn't broken Sci needs a buff to it's unique abilities and it's Damage needs to be based not on the weapons but the Sci Skills. As far as ENg goes you do know what the job is right? Fix things and repair things NOT BLOW **** UP! Buff eng so they are harder to kill are harder to take systems off line boost their turn rate and speed. Boost Eng shield repair rate and hull regen and reduce the offline time for everything else.

    So why should a Tac captain be better at Control and Exotic damage than a Sci captain? Currently they are, isn't that wrong? Why should a Tac captain be just as good, if not better in some cases, than a Eng captain at self healing and tankiness? Currently they are, isn't that wrong?

    You're going at this from a different way than I am but we mean the same things. Tac captains need to be nerfed in a variety of ways, up to and including having trade-offs and limitations for their damage skills. ACA should not boost anything but weapon damage and potentially cycling haste. It currently makes a Tac captain a better Sci captain than Sci captains. Go Down Fighting needs the DR part removed so that it's an actual risk to use as you're not tanking through all the damage on top of all the other BOFF skills we have. Things like that. Their skills need to be gutted of the ability to affect everything, grant defenses, and be tailored to ONLY affect the things their supposed to be good at, weapon damage. They're not meant to be tanks, so they need that stripped away. If they had no defensive options but dealt the current amount of damage I might be less harsh but realistically with the amount of damage they do and all the passive defensive stuff stacked into their skills they're double dipping and making Eng meaningless and Sci less effective.

    Sci captains need Science Fleet to be renamed and retooled to boost EPG, Drain, and Control expertise on a sliding scale for themselves instead of being team wide giving them back the ability to deal the most of those abilities. I'm not as familiar with their ground abilities as standard but adjusting them to focus on Control would be an adjustment that isn't major but fits more in with their theme. This isn't a huge buff since most science skills would be adjusted down a little to counter that but it would cement Sci as being the goto for Sci, able to boost the levels of damage, control, and drain, through the roof for windows, while still allowing the other captain's to dabble.

    Eng needs Miracle Worker to scale on a % base rather than the static that it is now. Adjust the other built in skills to provide better healing and regen to let them either tank or be the dedicated healer of the group and give them the ability to pull more threat passively to support that tank playstyle if they're using it. Their supposed to be flying around in big tanky ships and be able to heal and regen through stuff so give them the tools, make Threatening Presence something that boosts their healing effects on themselves. As it stands turning on TP has no benefit besides cheesing something like FBP. Things like Rotate Shield Frequency are already kinda there but it's like they stopped short.

    Currently Tac does everything the other two do, but better. That's flat out not how you encourage people to try other things nor is it how you make all 3 classes viable. I should want to make a character based on their class in order to tailor their effects to that playstyle. Currently I can make 3 Tac captains and have a Tac Captain, a Sci Captain, and a Eng Captain all through their current abilities and Boff abilities and do all 3 jobs perfectly. That's flat out wrong. Nerf Tac down to what it should be and give the other two their toys back.
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  • revanindustriesrevanindustries Member Posts: 508 Arc User
    So I see this argument going on. "Nerf Tacs" one side says. "Buff Sci/Eng" the other says. Well I think we can find a compromise that incorporates both ideas. We can nerf Tacs AND buff Sci/Eng. Now everyone will be happy, because both sides got what they wanted, right?
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,572 Arc User
    Ferengi.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,572 Arc User
    This entire 'balance pass' has the signature of Geko swirling about it. What we are seeing is the tip of the iceberg - Ground, which is nowhere near as 'broken' as Space. We shall wait for the other shoe to drop with Space. Reduce, then provide the way out with a whole new line of T7 Ships with the Mucho Grande new capabilities and shinies.

    Hopefully, unlike the Titanic we don't hit that iceberg.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    This entire 'balance pass' has the signature of Geko swirling about it. What we are seeing is the tip of the iceberg - Ground, which is nowhere near as 'broken' as Space. We shall wait for the other shoe to drop with Space. Reduce, then provide the way out with a whole new line of T7 Ships with the Mucho Grande new capabilities and shinies.

    Hopefully, unlike the Titanic we don't hit that iceberg.

    Probably yeah. It could explain why we've seen so many C-store releases in a relatively short time. I think we're all expecting power creep to occur relatively soon after these changes again.

    With some luck these changes will improve the game for a short while though.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,572 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    As a somewhat off but appropriate analogy.

    I used to get King Sized Snickers® Bars from the candy shop in the building where I worked. They were 2.0 oz. Then one year they reduced the size to 1.67 oz and kept the same price. The next year it was back to 2.0 oz., they marked the wrapping 'Now even bigger' and raised the price 10¢. This would be the cycle every two years.
    Post edited by ltminns on
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    risian4 wrote: »
    risian4 wrote: »
    I'm curious as to what people think is the most OP and needs fixing the most.

    The Engage Button at Log In. It needs an automatic gear check. And if you don't hit the right level of gear quality, you get shuffled along to some other Cryptic Game, made for the softcore carebears.

    But... we'd have to miss you :(:p

    I'll be fine! I hear Neverwinter's fun and Gigantic's easy peasy. ;)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • dareaudareau Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    ssbn655 wrote: »
    The special snowflakes who whine about balance and cry NERF NERF WHAAAA (whatever flavor of the week) IS OPed and I can't keep up Whaaa! They refuse or are unable to read the endless posts how to bring thier ships and gear up to par.

    You realize that "up to par" usually includes "making sure your space career = Tactical", right? Because no matter what type of damage you're doing, two specific captain abilities possessed only by a Tactical ensure that those skills are necessary for "optimized killing of foemen"...
    ssbn655 wrote: »
    So yeah we getting the old shaftereno from the Devs with a "balance restructure". Hey Devs how about listening to those of us who aren't whining about balance for a change?

    Because if my understanding of human nature is correct, the only people who wouldn't want "balance" would be those on top of the current structure and therefore doesn't want to see anyone else up there with them due to "ego issues" or some such... :wink:
    Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...

    To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
  • vampeiyrevampeiyre Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    Eh, the same culprits who are variously either professional moaners or professional distractors/deflectors via fallacy are offering their valueless input in vain to circumvent the inevitable.

    Tac is getting reigned in via repair of unintended exploitative mechanics, Sci and Eng will be mildly lifted/improved to ensure there are multiple viable choices, rather than one viable choice and two penalties of various levels. I imagine a hard DPS cap may occur since some queues last all of 60 seconds these days.

    Resign yourselves to reality, or continue to deny it to heighten your pain come the day when adjustments go live to Holodeck. Those who are here to have fun will continue to do so, and have more of it. Those who are here to ease the pain of having no self esteem/being losers in real life, well, who cares what they do, really?
    "I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,572 Arc User
    Or Green/Gold or Blue, depending on what series you are watching.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • vampeiyrevampeiyre Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    hqdefault.jpg
    ::Laughs in Starfleet Captain::
    "I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
  • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    Nerf the TRIBBLE out of space entropy

    I realized recently it's the only thing that really drove the nail in the coffin of space pvp. At least some old timers have the decency to say in zone "ah, look it's another entropy n00b", and for perfect reason.

    Give us more physical resist at least.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    I think some people get into a bad place in their heads because they never really watched Star Trek and dont know about it.

    In the show, the fights are lead by people in red uniforms. Captain Picard, Commander Riker, Captain Sisko.

    They are -supported- by yellow and blue uniformed people.

    The role of 'sci' and 'eng' is to support "tac" in STO. "Tac" is a misnomer, in trek it was called "command."

    You forgot Janeway was a science officer prior to being captain hence why you conveniently skipped her.

  • orondisorondis Member Posts: 1,447 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    Okay, made a bit of a list here.

    Here's a few balancing issues to start with.

    Entropy skills - Especially Entropic Redistribution. 100k plus damage 100% through shields is a joke.

    Fire at Will - Need I say more? There's really no point in Surgical Strike when FAW can do more damage vs a single target... Even when you're hitting 5 other targets at the same time.

    Embassy consoles - Can add about 15k DPS. Damage which ignores shields and has no cooldown.

    Feedback pulse - Can return more damage than received with 50% shield penetration. On top of which, with the help of particle manipulator you get get it to crit regularly.

    Torpedo spread - Has two issues with it. First it's like the other AOE attacks in that you're not really giving up much damage vs a single target. Second is that it doesn't care about accuracy, it can't miss).

    How about have them work like the Vaadwaur polaron barrage instead?

    Spread 1 - a 3km radius of 3 2km explosions.
    Spread 2 - a 4.5km radius of 4 3km explosions.
    Spread 3 - a 6km radius of 5 4km explosions.

    Surgical Strike - Misfires regularly with lag.

    Immunities - These are just a joke... But sadly needed for PVP given how absurd everything is.

    Kemocite laced weaponry - The last nerf actually felt more like a buff. Given I've had kemocite procs of 50k, I think it needs to stop being buffed by other powers, just a static number. In fact the same goes for the embassy consoles.

    Tactical team - Remove automatic shield redistribution. Chances are casual players don't even know it can do that, while it makes things a little too easy for experienced players.

    Romulan Superior operative trait - This trait needs to be unstackable. Frankly all Boff space traits should stop stacking. It'd lead to more varied crews and should fix the unfair advantage Romulans have here.

    Boarding Party - It's about time to either scrap this power or change it's mechanics. For example, make it so you can beam an away team through a lowered shield facing or something. Perhaps operating in a similar fashion to the Borg boarding party.

    Torpedos - Make them all 180 arc, with wide arc torps becoming 270 arc.

    Yes, that would mean you could broadside in a torp boat (like the artillary cruiser in SFC1).

    Also lower some of the newer abilities that buff them, while increasing their base damage (since those abilities seemed to have been intended as a quick patch for torp problems). One of the problems with torps is that they didn't scale up as much as energy weapons did through the levels. A Mk II torp did considerably more damage than a Mk II beam, making them excellent weapons from lvls 1-10. After that though they gradually lost their potency and beams overtook them.

    Beam Overload - Return it to what it was like before, when it didn't always crit.

    Tactical captain buffs - Should not buff engineer and science based skills. The buffs themselves should be lowered.

    Universal clicky consoles - Should share a global cooldown and/or be limited to certain amount.

    Stacking powers - A lot of these stacks just go too high. We're not at the bugged dominion set level *yet* (the one that procced 99 times and brought maps to a halt), but I'm sure it's causing lots of lag in maps. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if this was one of the reasons Cryptic is doing a balance pass.


    Previously Alendiak
    Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
    Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
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  • tempus64tempus64 Member Posts: 806 Arc User
    Less than a year ago, around 100k was the top end able to do all the same content that the DPS people are now doing up to 500k in. And they're crying about the possibility of that getting nerfed. Given what Cryptic has been doing over the last 9 months or so to make the game more "casual" friendly, I would think that they would like to get things back down to that level over several months so it's not a big shock. Then of course they can start selling new shinies for those players to buy and start upping their DPS again. It's a cycle of chasing your tail. From a business standpoint it makes perfect sense.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    lucho80 wrote: »
    I think some people get into a bad place in their heads because they never really watched Star Trek and dont know about it.

    In the show, the fights are lead by people in red uniforms. Captain Picard, Commander Riker, Captain Sisko.

    They are -supported- by yellow and blue uniformed people.

    The role of 'sci' and 'eng' is to support "tac" in STO. "Tac" is a misnomer, in trek it was called "command."

    You forgot Janeway was a science officer prior to being captain hence why you conveniently skipped her.

    Janeway's another good example.

    janeway-750x938.jpg

    Red uniform, had people in blue and yellow uniforms support her.

    What color did Voyager's TACTICAL officer wear?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    orondis wrote: »
    Okay, made a bit of a list here.

    Here's a few balancing issues to start with.

    Entropy skills - Especially Entropic Redistribution. 100k plus damage 100% through shields is a joke.

    Fire at Will - Need I say more? There's really no point in Surgical Strike when FAW can do more damage vs a single target... Even when you're hitting 5 other targets at the same time.

    Embassy consoles - Can add about 15k DPS. Damage which ignores shields and has no cooldown.

    Feedback pulse - Can return more damage than received with 50% shield penetration. On top of which, with the help of particle manipulator you get get it to crit regularly.

    Torpedo spread - Has two issues with it. First it's like the other AOE attacks in that you're not really giving up much damage vs a single target. Second is that it doesn't care about accuracy, it can't miss).

    How about have them work like the Vaadwaur polaron barrage instead?

    Spread 1 - a 3km radius of 3 2km explosions.
    Spread 2 - a 4.5km radius of 4 3km explosions.
    Spread 3 - a 6km radius of 5 4km explosions.

    Surgical Strike - Misfires regularly with lag.

    Immunities - These are just a joke... But sadly needed for PVP given how absurd everything is.

    Kemocite laced weaponry - The last nerf actually felt more like a buff. Given I've had kemocite procs of 50k, I think it needs to stop being buffed by other powers, just a static number. In fact the same goes for the embassy consoles.

    Tactical team - Remove automatic shield redistribution. Chances are casual players don't even know it can do that, while it makes things a little too easy for experienced players.

    Romulan Superior operative trait - This trait needs to be unstackable. Frankly all Boff space traits should stop stacking. It'd lead to more varied crews and should fix the unfair advantage Romulans have here.

    Boarding Party - It's about time to either scrap this power or change it's mechanics. For example, make it so you can beam an away team through a lowered shield facing or something. Perhaps operating in a similar fashion to the Borg boarding party.

    Torpedos - Make them all 180 arc, with wide arc torps becoming 270 arc.

    Yes, that would mean you could broadside in a torp boat (like the artillary cruiser in SFC1).

    Also lower some of the newer abilities that buff them, while increasing their base damage (since those abilities seemed to have been intended as a quick patch for torp problems). One of the problems with torps is that they didn't scale up as much as energy weapons did through the levels. A Mk II torp did considerably more damage than a Mk II beam, making them excellent weapons from lvls 1-10. After that though they gradually lost their potency and beams overtook them.

    Beam Overload - Return it to what it was like before, when it didn't always crit.

    Tactical captain buffs - Should not buff engineer and science based skills. The buffs themselves should be lowered.

    Universal clicky consoles - Should share a global cooldown and/or be limited to certain amount.

    Stacking powers - A lot of these stacks just go too high. We're not at the bugged dominion set level *yet* (the one that procced 99 times and brought maps to a halt), but I'm sure it's causing lots of lag in maps. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if this was one of the reasons Cryptic is doing a balance pass.


    This is a good list. The only thing I strongly disagree with is Tactical team - if they remove the shield distribution thing from this power, they should at least add it to something else. Or make sure that manually redistributing shields is a bit more effective.


    Some things I strongly agree with are the Kemocite and plasma issues. Full immunities definitely need to go or be limited to a hard cap of max x seconds per minute.

    Dealing insane amounts of damage + being able to tank boss rank enemies, sometimes even multiple of them, is one of the main things that should be adressed by a balance fix.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,572 Arc User
    Or just press the middle of that big round circle if you want to redistribute the Shields. Oh, because everything has to be on a super long chaining keybind you can't do that.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
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  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    I'd considered making the existing ones unbound and salable. This would give you some opportunity to recoup your investment.

    I've also seen alternatives where they simply gain a shared 10 second cool down and it's you own damn problem if you no longer want to run 4-5 of them. That may be the best 'suck it up, because you made the choice' version I've seen to date.

    But ultimately, being highly invested in a tool that's proven about on rat-hair short of being exploitive, your reward is you got to play it, not that you get to keep playing it forever. Enjoy your one gold XIV and start looking around for the next vulnerable to abuse/dreadful lapse in judgement item from the Devs ;).
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  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    Except those consoles were never the next big thing. They're in the same 'pork chop around the neck' rewards for participating in a fleet gear class as tons of other items. I think their place at the apex of the directed energy damage meta is an accident as player tinkered and fiddle and tweaked until it broke.

    I expect the shared cooldown solution is the one we'll see manifest (with no buy-back or sell-off option at all). The "you can still use five ...even thought it would be stupid" response is a brilliant deflection of the wrathful backlash. Many of the precious whales won't even know something's changed ;).
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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,284 Arc User
    putting a shared cooldown on them might reign in some of the over-the-top DPS the cookiee-cutter energy builds...but it would also kill the all-turret builds that heavily rely on them and their per-shot proc mechanic to put out the decent levels of damage that make such builds barely competitive instead of outright garbage, and limiting them to 1 equipped - same problem

    so how are you going to fix these consoles so that the builds using them to pile even more damage on top of an already massive output are reigned in slightly but don't completely trash a build type that's only just now managed to claw itself into the 'semi-competitive' bracket?​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

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  • e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    nikeix wrote: »
    I'd considered making the existing ones unbound and salable.
    I don't think that is possible though. One of the devs did say that they cannot or are hesitant to bind/unbind items that are already in the possession of a character because there are just too many things that could break. It's one of the reasons why old Coalition Disruptors are stuck with bound to character (rather than the current bound to account) tags.

    Making them limit one per ship would hurt people that like to tank (the real tanks, not the current DPS aggro builds) since these consoles used to be their primary source of boosting threat. I personally think it's better to just give them a once per 10s proc like the other embassy consoles. That would be fair IMO.

    When it comes to Kemocite, I think that one has been nerfed enough already. It's funny that a skill once thought to be integral to torp boats now work better in FAW/CSV builds.
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