Intellectual Property rights need to go the way of the dinosaur. The idea that an individual can own idea is ridiculous.
Why? Whats ridiculous about owning an idea?
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Intellectual Property rights need to go the way of the dinosaur. The idea that an individual can own idea is ridiculous.
Why? Whats ridiculous about owning an idea?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuKwtBtgPPA
Because you just can't... But on a serious note you really can't actually own it. If no one believes me there is plenty of information on the matter.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Intellectual Property rights need to go the way of the dinosaur. The idea that an individual can own idea is ridiculous.
The way I see it, IP rights are a means, rather than an end. They're a legal and commercial carrot to dangle in front of creators to get them to make things, which eventually become common property (public domain). After all, why put in the huge amount of work that goes into movies, novels, and the like if someone could just take it and outcompete you with your own product? Some people would make things anyway just because they love doing it, but that's a fairly narrow subset of creators. We get all these great books and technically spectacular movies because there's a return on the investment.
The problem, as I see it, is that copyright duration keep getting longer and longer--the big players would like to see copyright become perpetual which is, you know, contrary to the purpose of copyright as I understand it. IMO, corporate copyright should be made shorter, not longer. A corporation doesn't have the same need to milk an existing product for decades as an individual--it's easier for it to make new stuff.
Intellectual Property rights need to go the way of the dinosaur. The idea that an individual can own idea is ridiculous.
Here's the simple reason why they shouldn't, and won't: People have to eat. For us Star Trek or whatever is entertainment, but for the people doing the work, it's a job. Why do you think a created idea is any different than a created hammer, just because you can physically touch the hammer?
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Intellectual Property rights need to go the way of the dinosaur. The idea that an individual can own idea is ridiculous.
... so, if I'm understanding you correctly, you, @azniadeet, could write the greatest sci-fi story ever, with the potential to make more money that Star Trek and Star Wars combined, and you would consider it perfectly fine for a major movie studio to just make a movie out of it without paying you or signing a contract? Because that's what people can do without IP rights and laws.
Well as I have said in other Threads 'Star Trek Continues' is now toast even if they could keep their stories to two 15 minute segments each. With the hiring of Vic Mignogna and Chris Doohan to do work in STO, an officially licensed product of CBS, they can NEVER work on those shows again. Check Rule #5.
Real shame in this over-the-top overreaction by CBS.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Intellectual Property rights need to go the way of the dinosaur. The idea that an individual can own idea is ridiculous.
That really is laughable. Ideas and concepts are the same thing as physical inventions and products. As a reward for all your time, effort, and resources put into developing any of those, your reward is ownership of them.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
for those saying invent your own thing - no one cares about anything they are not told with massive advertising budgets to watch. Yes, you can have limited "success." Maybe a little more if you are young and have some sex appeal to sell. In 2 years I have had around 200,000 free downloads of my books and over 10,000 paid sales - a large % at .33 cents. Not enough to buy groceries for the year. You will not 'make it' ever. Put it out of your mind and write what you want to write for yourself only. If someone else ever likes it that's gravy. For me it's not at all about the money - same as for most of the fan film people. They are doing what they want to do.
I know the law in this area very well and of course the corporation can enforce their rights at any time. I was surprised they didn't do it sooner. I believe they only did so now due to a change in their corporate relationships, structures, and plans for the future. Which I think will be very grim.
Renegades announced that they're removing all references to Trek and forging on with their series. I will support them in any way I can - possibly with a large donation if this miser can stomach the pain of vault opening.
Actually this is not true. There have been several examples of people creating brand new things that took off...Harry Potter, The Martian and Ready Player One.
Just because it hasn't happened for you doesn't mean it can't happen for someone else.
LOL, yes I'm aware that it is possible to be struck by lighting while sitting in your living room. I don't know the story of the Martian. Strikes me as a regular Hollywood production and I've never heard of the 3rd one you mention. But I do know quite a bit about Harry Potter. That was a case of being struck by lightning three times. The first publisher printed a couple thousand as a little pet project - mostly for libraries - and mostly because she won some single mum writing contest (first strike). The fact that it was noticed and picked up in america was the 3rd strike. Each one was a miracle.
Scratch the surface of the vast majority of people in the arts and entertainment industry and you will find a relative.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Intellectual Property rights need to go the way of the dinosaur. The idea that an individual can own idea is ridiculous.
That really is laughable. Ideas and concepts are the same thing as physical inventions and products. As a reward for all your time, effort, and resources put into developing any of those, your reward is ownership of them.
I also support what was called in my law school days 'the 3rd world view of copyrights.' Unfortunately the corporations are now better able to police what goes on in the streets of s.e. Asia due to the WTO supremacy.
It's a little more palatable when the creator of the idea is enforcing their rights. It's much less so when some corporation with nothing to do with the creation is doing it.
It's an interesting point about corporations just stealing your idea and making whatever they want without any compensation. That would irritate me as they would likely not even mention the creator at all and just say they did it or whatever. But going the other way - the way I have always thought about it - I would happily allow any fans to make any use of my idea that they wished without any limit or reservation.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
for those saying invent your own thing - no one cares about anything they are not told with massive advertising budgets to watch. Yes, you can have limited "success." Maybe a little more if you are young and have some sex appeal to sell. In 2 years I have had around 200,000 free downloads of my books and over 10,000 paid sales - a large % at .33 cents. Not enough to buy groceries for the year. You will not 'make it' ever. Put it out of your mind and write what you want to write for yourself only. If someone else ever likes it that's gravy. For me it's not at all about the money - same as for most of the fan film people. They are doing what they want to do.
I know the law in this area very well and of course the corporation can enforce their rights at any time. I was surprised they didn't do it sooner. I believe they only did so now due to a change in their corporate relationships, structures, and plans for the future. Which I think will be very grim.
Renegades announced that they're removing all references to Trek and forging on with their series. I will support them in any way I can - possibly with a large donation if this miser can stomach the pain of vault opening.
Actually this is not true. There have been several examples of people creating brand new things that took off...Harry Potter, The Martian and Ready Player One.
Just because it hasn't happened for you doesn't mean it can't happen for someone else.
LOL, yes I'm aware that it is possible to be struck by lighting while sitting in your living room. I don't know the story of the Martian. Strikes me as a regular Hollywood production and I've never heard of the 3rd one you mention. But I do know quite a bit about Harry Potter. That was a case of being struck by lightning three times. The first publisher printed a couple thousand as a little pet project - mostly for libraries - and mostly because she won some single mum writing contest (first strike). The fact that it was noticed and picked up in america was the 3rd strike. Each one was a miracle.
Scratch the surface of the vast majority of people in the arts and entertainment industry and you will find a relative.
And lest people think this is new, Tom Clancy could barely get anyone from the conventional fiction publishers to give The Hunt for Red October a second glance, but he'd written a bunch of nonfiction for the Naval Institute Press and they agreed to go outside the box for him. But even then it didn't take off until President Reagan of all people recommended it.
What I find most interesting about this line of discussion is, Alec Peters could have gone legit like this. Lightning did strike for him: a bunch of the people who worked on Prelude were known in the industry, from director Christian Gossett on down. But apparently the guy has an ego bigger than Trump so he ended up antagonizing these very talented people-who-knew-people.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I'll just add one more thing. Up until the late 1970's it was possible to submit a story to the new yorker and they would actually read it with interest. No longer. Then throughout the 80's and 90's the answer was 'get an agent.' Now very very few agents will read unsolicited manuscripts. Perhaps there needs to be sub-agents to submit to who will submit to an agent who will submit to a publisher. The great majority of projects are based on current events rather than artistic endeavors. Also close to 3000 'books' are published EVERY DAY on amazon. Wrap your head around that for a second. Wait for lighting.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I'll just add one more thing. Up until the late 1970's it was possible to submit a story to the new yorker and they would actually read it with interest. No longer. Then throughout the 80's and 90's the answer was 'get an agent.' Now very very few agents will read unsolicited manuscripts. Perhaps there needs to be sub-agents to submit to who will submit to an agent who will submit to a publisher. The great majority of projects are based on current events rather than artistic endeavors. Also close to 3000 'books' are published EVERY DAY on amazon. Wrap your head around that for a second. Wait for lighting.
Considering I've seen many e-books on amazon that blatantly use an existing IP without authorization (usually free though), I wouldn't exactly classify all 3k of those daily additions as "books".
You are right though, it is difficult to be successful, especially when you are creating something new. It's one of the reasons I've never gotten around to actually writing a rather extensive book series I've had mapped out for quite awhile ... though the main reason is really that any time I sit down to actually write it I suddenly feel a lot of anxiety, no idea what that's about.
In the 1920s, Astounding Stories held a contest for unpublished writers. First prize was to get your story published in the magazine, with a $20 paycheck.
The contest was won by a kid from Brooklyn by the name of Isaac Asimov, with a story called "Marooned Off Vesta". He learned later that he might well have lost the contest - because another entrant, a young man named Robert Heinlein, medically retired from the Navy , wrote "Life-Line" for the contest, considered it, and submitted it instead to competing magazine Galaxy for their standard rates, netting him over $100.
"Lightning can strike" if you have talent. Just because you can slap words in a row, even if they're grammatically correct, doesn't mean you have any writing talent. (Look at the Twilight books - they're grammatically correct, correctly spelled, and written so turgidly they're basically unreadable.)
I'll just add one more thing. Up until the late 1970's it was possible to submit a story to the new yorker and they would actually read it with interest. No longer. Then throughout the 80's and 90's the answer was 'get an agent.' Now very very few agents will read unsolicited manuscripts. Perhaps there needs to be sub-agents to submit to who will submit to an agent who will submit to a publisher. The great majority of projects are based on current events rather than artistic endeavors. Also close to 3000 'books' are published EVERY DAY on amazon. Wrap your head around that for a second. Wait for lighting.
Considering I've seen many e-books on amazon that blatantly use an existing IP without authorization (usually free though), I wouldn't exactly classify all 3k of those daily additions as "books".
You are right though, it is difficult to be successful, especially when you are creating something new. It's one of the reasons I've never gotten around to actually writing a rather extensive book series I've had mapped out for quite awhile ... though the main reason is really that any time I sit down to actually write it I suddenly feel a lot of anxiety, no idea what that's about.
I do recall @catstarsto mentioning asking permission to publish his Kittyprise ebook (don't remember if he was charging money) and having C/P tell him to take the Star Trek name off it. I guess they didn't want people to think it was an official product, but it's a furry parody of Trek so it's clear fair use.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
In the 1920s, Astounding Stories held a contest for unpublished writers. First prize was to get your story published in the magazine, with a $20 paycheck.
The contest was won by a kid from Brooklyn by the name of Isaac Asimov, with a story called "Marooned Off Vesta". He learned later that he might well have lost the contest - because another entrant, a young man named Robert Heinlein, medically retired from the Navy , wrote "Life-Line" for the contest, considered it, and submitted it instead to competing magazine Galaxy for their standard rates, netting him over $100.
"Lightning can strike" if you have talent. Just because you can slap words in a row, even if they're grammatically correct, doesn't mean you have any writing talent. (Look at the Twilight books - they're grammatically correct, correctly spelled, and written so turgidly they're basically unreadable.)
That would seem to suggest you don't really need talent either, just a rabid fan base (in your example, pre-teen and teenage girls).
I'll just add one more thing. Up until the late 1970's it was possible to submit a story to the new yorker and they would actually read it with interest. No longer. Then throughout the 80's and 90's the answer was 'get an agent.' Now very very few agents will read unsolicited manuscripts. Perhaps there needs to be sub-agents to submit to who will submit to an agent who will submit to a publisher. The great majority of projects are based on current events rather than artistic endeavors. Also close to 3000 'books' are published EVERY DAY on amazon. Wrap your head around that for a second. Wait for lighting.
Considering I've seen many e-books on amazon that blatantly use an existing IP without authorization (usually free though), I wouldn't exactly classify all 3k of those daily additions as "books".
You are right though, it is difficult to be successful, especially when you are creating something new. It's one of the reasons I've never gotten around to actually writing a rather extensive book series I've had mapped out for quite awhile ... though the main reason is really that any time I sit down to actually write it I suddenly feel a lot of anxiety, no idea what that's about.
I do recall @catstarsto mentioning asking permission to publish his Kittyprise ebook (don't remember if he was charging money) and having C/P tell him to take the Star Trek name off it. I guess they didn't want people to think it was an official product, but it's a furry parody of Trek so it's clear fair use.
The ones I see usually start with the title of the stolen IP, and the giveaway that they are actually fanfic is that they have no cover art.
for those saying invent your own thing - no one cares about anything they are not told with massive advertising budgets to watch. Yes, you can have limited "success." Maybe a little more if you are young and have some sex appeal to sell. In 2 years I have had around 200,000 free downloads of my books and over 10,000 paid sales - a large % at .33 cents. Not enough to buy groceries for the year. You will not 'make it' ever. Put it out of your mind and write what you want to write for yourself only. If someone else ever likes it that's gravy. For me it's not at all about the money - same as for most of the fan film people. They are doing what they want to do.
I know the law in this area very well and of course the corporation can enforce their rights at any time. I was surprised they didn't do it sooner. I believe they only did so now due to a change in their corporate relationships, structures, and plans for the future. Which I think will be very grim.
Renegades announced that they're removing all references to Trek and forging on with their series. I will support them in any way I can - possibly with a large donation if this miser can stomach the pain of vault opening.
Actually this is not true. There have been several examples of people creating brand new things that took off...Harry Potter, The Martian and Ready Player One.
Just because it hasn't happened for you doesn't mean it can't happen for someone else.
LOL, yes I'm aware that it is possible to be struck by lighting while sitting in your living room. I don't know the story of the Martian. Strikes me as a regular Hollywood production and I've never heard of the 3rd one you mention. But I do know quite a bit about Harry Potter. That was a case of being struck by lightning three times. The first publisher printed a couple thousand as a little pet project - mostly for libraries - and mostly because she won some single mum writing contest (first strike). The fact that it was noticed and picked up in america was the 3rd strike. Each one was a miracle.
Scratch the surface of the vast majority of people in the arts and entertainment industry and you will find a relative.
The Martian was a book before it was a movie. It was written by Andy Weir. This was his first book. Instead of going the published route, Weir put the book up, one chapter at a time on his website. At the request of fans, he made an Amazon Kindle version available at 99 cents (the minimum he could set the price). The Kindle edition rose to the top of Amazon's list of best-selling science-fiction titles, where it sold 35,000 copies in three months, more than had been previously downloaded free. This garnered the attention of publishers: Podium Publishing, an audiobook publisher, signed for the audiobook rights in January 2013. Weir sold the print rights to Crown in March 2013 for over US$100,000. The book debuted on the New York Times Best Seller list on March 2, 2014 in the hardcover fiction category at twelfth position.
Ready Player One was written by Ernest Cline. This would be his first book. In June 2010 Cline sold his first novel, Ready Player One, in a bidding war to the Crown Publishing Group (a division of Random House). The film rights to the novel were sold the following day to Warner Bros. with Cline attached to write the screenplay. It is slated to be Steven Spielberg's next film. Honestly anyone that loves MMO's, The 80's and video games should check this book out.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Well as I have said in other Threads 'Star Trek Continues' is now toast even if they could keep their stories to two 15 minute segments each. With the hiring of Vic Mignogna and Chris Doohan to do work in STO, an officially licensed product of CBS, they can NEVER work on those shows again. Check Rule #5.
Real shame in this over-the-top overreaction by CBS.
I wouldn't direct your ire at CBS as for nearly 15 years they had a "look the other way" policy with regard to fan films until Alec Peters and Axanar not only DROVE way over the line (by orders of magnitude); when challenged by C/P they basically argued "Hey we don't think ANYTHING is Star Trek is copyrightable under the law..." <--- That was Axanar's argument in the lawsuit (it's all on file with the Federal Court))
^^^
Based on that I would hardly call what CBS did as over-reaction. they want and need to protect a Franchise that has been profitable for them for nearly 50 years now (and honestly, no, I don't think you c an say it's only because of fan films that Star trek is still in the public eye. Over those 50 years Paramount and CBS have published Books, games, and overall, there has never been more then a 4 year gap between some official TV or Feature Film project - and when you compare that to other high profile franchises - the Star Trek franchise has remained VERY officially active during those 50 years.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I would hope your not suggesting Asimov or Heinlein to be deficient of talent.
Pretty sure he was referring to Twilight, not Asimov and Heinlein.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Intellectual Property rights need to go the way of the dinosaur. The idea that an individual can own idea is ridiculous.
... so, if I'm understanding you correctly, you, @azniadeet, could write the greatest sci-fi story ever, with the potential to make more money that Star Trek and Star Wars combined, and you would consider it perfectly fine for a major movie studio to just make a movie out of it without paying you or signing a contract? Because that's what people can do without IP rights and laws.
Even with IP law in place it is possible. Example, back in the 1940s, Jerry Seigel (one of the creators of Superman) was overseas fighting for the US. While overseas he sent a character proposal back to the company (which is now DC Comics) of the character of Superboy. The company declined the proposal, then went ahead and started publishing it anyway. After Seigel returned from the war and discovered this he filed a suit against the company, while sadly this suit would outlive him, in the end the rights to Superboy and Superman were returned to the Seigel family (check the credits of Batman V Superman, "Superman appears courtesy of agreement with the Seigel family") in the last few years. During the decades the suit was in the courts DC made millions on Superboy comics, cartoons, merchandise, etc, with multiple versions of the character.
Well, there's more to the story as it's not as simple as that per se because in 1938 part of the deal to get 'Superman' published originally (from the Wkipedia for what it's worth): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Siegel
As part of the deal which saw Superman published in Action Comics, Siegel and Shuster sold the rights to the company in return for $130 and a contract to supply the publisher with material.[
Meaning they were doing 'work for hire' at that point. (And yes, this ultimately turned out to be a BAD deal for them, no argument there.)
With regard to the 'Superboy' Lawsuit:
Superboy was the subject of a legal battle between Time Warner, the owner of DC Comics and the estate of Jerry Siegel. The Siegels argued that Jerry Siegel was an independent contractor at the time he proposed the original character, which DC declined at the time. After returning from World War II, Siegel found that DC had published a Superboy story which bore similarities to his proposal.
On March 23, 2006, federal judge Ronald S. W. Lew issued a summary judgment ruling that the Siegel heirs had the right to revoke their copyright assignment to Superboy and had successfully reclaimed the rights as of November 17, 2004. Warner Bros. and DC Comics replied that they "respectfully disagree" with the ruling and would seek review. Warner Bros. and DC Comics filed a motion for reconsideration of Judge Lew's ruling in January 2007. On July 27, 2007, federal judge Larson (who had replaced Lew upon his taking "senior status") reversed Judge Lew's ruling that the Siegel heirs had reclaimed the rights to Superboy.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
If you want to sell your story that's fine. Get a commission.
Studio pays you, then you give then ideas that they can make into a marketable product.
But once you've set that idea out into the ether, you gave no claim on the minds of others. You have no right to usurp the ability of others to change, develop and improve upon the ideas that they've acquired.
Freedom of speech is a right. Intellectual property holding is an entitlement.
[quote="artan42;12974879"][quote="azniadeet;12974621"]Intellectual Property rights need to go the way of the dinosaur. The idea that an individual can own idea is ridiculous.[/quote]
That really is laughable. Ideas and concepts are the same thing as physical inventions and products. As a reward for all your time, effort, and resources put into developing any of those, your reward is ownership of them.[/quote]
It's not the same at all. If you want yo get paid for producing ideas, fine: get commissioned. Get crowd funded. Prove your worth and then find someone who will pay for more.
But once you've developed an idea, it's free speech. Meaning it can't be owned. It is free to move about the head of anyone who encounters it. It is free to be retold, reimagined and reproduced. It's an idea and that is the nature of ideas.
Greed is no excuse to deny the nature of things. It's a system abused by middlemen that stifles creativity by producers and consumers. The only winners are greedy executives without a single creative bone in their body.
Like with most government granted protections, it's an entitlement to the wealthiest and least productive shysters in the system.
In the 1920s, Astounding Stories held a contest for unpublished writers. First prize was to get your story published in the magazine, with a $20 paycheck.
The contest was won by a kid from Brooklyn by the name of Isaac Asimov, with a story called "Marooned Off Vesta". He learned later that he might well have lost the contest - because another entrant, a young man named Robert Heinlein, medically retired from the Navy , wrote "Life-Line" for the contest, considered it, and submitted it instead to competing magazine Galaxy for their standard rates, netting him over $100.
"Lightning can strike" if you have talent. Just because you can slap words in a row, even if they're grammatically correct, doesn't mean you have any writing talent. (Look at the Twilight books - they're grammatically correct, correctly spelled, and written so turgidly they're basically unreadable.)
Don't give too much credit there. It's possible some poor editors did most of the grammar and spellin work. How did they resist hanging themselves halfway through?
For Khan5000 thanks for that information. The Martian sounds like quite a remarkable story. Of course I'm not saying that can't happen but man it's a long shot. Almost literally one in a million on amazon that year. The Ready Player One sounds more traditional. Sure, of course you can still sell a book. Note that the subject has a strong built-in audience and a known and proven subject matter. I'm just trying to introduce a note of realism/pessimism that marks my outlook.
I just finished the 3rd installment of my science fiction series and will embark on editing tomorrow. I do derive some pleasure and satisfaction from the effort, but overall my decade of life in the small press has been a soul crushing experience. I always remember an old episode of Wings. The love interest girl was a good cello player and she got an audition with Charles from Mash and he told her she stunk. So she finally was able to give it up and be freed from the lifelong grip. Later he tells her she's marginal and has to work twice as hard as others. So she's stuck again. Well, since college I've been stuck and it seems I have no other choice but to write. I feel icky when I don't. Which I guess is as good a reason as any to do it.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
In the 1920s, Astounding Stories held a contest for unpublished writers. First prize was to get your story published in the magazine, with a $20 paycheck.
The contest was won by a kid from Brooklyn by the name of Isaac Asimov, with a story called "Marooned Off Vesta". He learned later that he might well have lost the contest - because another entrant, a young man named Robert Heinlein, medically retired from the Navy , wrote "Life-Line" for the contest, considered it, and submitted it instead to competing magazine Galaxy for their standard rates, netting him over $100.
"Lightning can strike" if you have talent. Just because you can slap words in a row, even if they're grammatically correct, doesn't mean you have any writing talent. (Look at the Twilight books - they're grammatically correct, correctly spelled, and written so turgidly they're basically unreadable.)
That would seem to suggest you don't really need talent either, just a rabid fan base (in your example, pre-teen and teenage girls).
I'll just add one more thing. Up until the late 1970's it was possible to submit a story to the new yorker and they would actually read it with interest. No longer. Then throughout the 80's and 90's the answer was 'get an agent.' Now very very few agents will read unsolicited manuscripts. Perhaps there needs to be sub-agents to submit to who will submit to an agent who will submit to a publisher. The great majority of projects are based on current events rather than artistic endeavors. Also close to 3000 'books' are published EVERY DAY on amazon. Wrap your head around that for a second. Wait for lighting.
Considering I've seen many e-books on amazon that blatantly use an existing IP without authorization (usually free though), I wouldn't exactly classify all 3k of those daily additions as "books".
You are right though, it is difficult to be successful, especially when you are creating something new. It's one of the reasons I've never gotten around to actually writing a rather extensive book series I've had mapped out for quite awhile ... though the main reason is really that any time I sit down to actually write it I suddenly feel a lot of anxiety, no idea what that's about.
I do recall @catstarsto mentioning asking permission to publish his Kittyprise ebook (don't remember if he was charging money) and having C/P tell him to take the Star Trek name off it. I guess they didn't want people to think it was an official product, but it's a furry parody of Trek so it's clear fair use.
The ones I see usually start with the title of the stolen IP, and the giveaway that they are actually fanfic is that they have no cover art.
I would hope your not suggesting Asimov or Heinlein to be deficient of talent.
It's not the same at all. If you want yo get paid for producing ideas, fine: get commissioned. Get crowd funded. Prove your worth and then find someone who will pay for more.
But once you've developed an idea, it's free speech. Meaning it can't be owned. It is free to move about the head of anyone who encounters it. It is free to be retold, reimagined and reproduced. It's an idea and that is the nature of ideas.
Greed is no excuse to deny the nature of things. It's a system abused by middlemen that stifles creativity by producers and consumers. The only winners are greedy executives without a single creative bone in their body.
Like with most government granted protections, it's an entitlement to the wealthiest and least productive shysters in the system.
Please, go tell your favorite band or musician that.
And that's not what "freedom of speech" really means.
Comments
Why? Whats ridiculous about owning an idea?
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Because you just can't... But on a serious note you really can't actually own it. If no one believes me there is plenty of information on the matter.
https://techcontracts.com/2011/10/06/no-one-can-own-an-idea-so-you-dont-need-a-feedback-license/
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
The problem, as I see it, is that copyright duration keep getting longer and longer--the big players would like to see copyright become perpetual which is, you know, contrary to the purpose of copyright as I understand it. IMO, corporate copyright should be made shorter, not longer. A corporation doesn't have the same need to milk an existing product for decades as an individual--it's easier for it to make new stuff.
Here's the simple reason why they shouldn't, and won't: People have to eat. For us Star Trek or whatever is entertainment, but for the people doing the work, it's a job. Why do you think a created idea is any different than a created hammer, just because you can physically touch the hammer?
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
... so, if I'm understanding you correctly, you, @azniadeet, could write the greatest sci-fi story ever, with the potential to make more money that Star Trek and Star Wars combined, and you would consider it perfectly fine for a major movie studio to just make a movie out of it without paying you or signing a contract? Because that's what people can do without IP rights and laws.
My character Tsin'xing
Real shame in this over-the-top overreaction by CBS.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Why? So you can get Star Trek for free?
IP law isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
That really is laughable. Ideas and concepts are the same thing as physical inventions and products. As a reward for all your time, effort, and resources put into developing any of those, your reward is ownership of them.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
LOL, yes I'm aware that it is possible to be struck by lighting while sitting in your living room. I don't know the story of the Martian. Strikes me as a regular Hollywood production and I've never heard of the 3rd one you mention. But I do know quite a bit about Harry Potter. That was a case of being struck by lightning three times. The first publisher printed a couple thousand as a little pet project - mostly for libraries - and mostly because she won some single mum writing contest (first strike). The fact that it was noticed and picked up in america was the 3rd strike. Each one was a miracle.
Scratch the surface of the vast majority of people in the arts and entertainment industry and you will find a relative.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I also support what was called in my law school days 'the 3rd world view of copyrights.' Unfortunately the corporations are now better able to police what goes on in the streets of s.e. Asia due to the WTO supremacy.
It's a little more palatable when the creator of the idea is enforcing their rights. It's much less so when some corporation with nothing to do with the creation is doing it.
It's an interesting point about corporations just stealing your idea and making whatever they want without any compensation. That would irritate me as they would likely not even mention the creator at all and just say they did it or whatever. But going the other way - the way I have always thought about it - I would happily allow any fans to make any use of my idea that they wished without any limit or reservation.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
And lest people think this is new, Tom Clancy could barely get anyone from the conventional fiction publishers to give The Hunt for Red October a second glance, but he'd written a bunch of nonfiction for the Naval Institute Press and they agreed to go outside the box for him. But even then it didn't take off until President Reagan of all people recommended it.
What I find most interesting about this line of discussion is, Alec Peters could have gone legit like this. Lightning did strike for him: a bunch of the people who worked on Prelude were known in the industry, from director Christian Gossett on down. But apparently the guy has an ego bigger than Trump so he ended up antagonizing these very talented people-who-knew-people.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Considering I've seen many e-books on amazon that blatantly use an existing IP without authorization (usually free though), I wouldn't exactly classify all 3k of those daily additions as "books".
You are right though, it is difficult to be successful, especially when you are creating something new. It's one of the reasons I've never gotten around to actually writing a rather extensive book series I've had mapped out for quite awhile ... though the main reason is really that any time I sit down to actually write it I suddenly feel a lot of anxiety, no idea what that's about.
The contest was won by a kid from Brooklyn by the name of Isaac Asimov, with a story called "Marooned Off Vesta". He learned later that he might well have lost the contest - because another entrant, a young man named Robert Heinlein, medically retired from the Navy , wrote "Life-Line" for the contest, considered it, and submitted it instead to competing magazine Galaxy for their standard rates, netting him over $100.
"Lightning can strike" if you have talent. Just because you can slap words in a row, even if they're grammatically correct, doesn't mean you have any writing talent. (Look at the Twilight books - they're grammatically correct, correctly spelled, and written so turgidly they're basically unreadable.)
I do recall @catstarsto mentioning asking permission to publish his Kittyprise ebook (don't remember if he was charging money) and having C/P tell him to take the Star Trek name off it. I guess they didn't want people to think it was an official product, but it's a furry parody of Trek so it's clear fair use.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
That would seem to suggest you don't really need talent either, just a rabid fan base (in your example, pre-teen and teenage girls).
The ones I see usually start with the title of the stolen IP, and the giveaway that they are actually fanfic is that they have no cover art.
The Martian was a book before it was a movie. It was written by Andy Weir. This was his first book. Instead of going the published route, Weir put the book up, one chapter at a time on his website. At the request of fans, he made an Amazon Kindle version available at 99 cents (the minimum he could set the price). The Kindle edition rose to the top of Amazon's list of best-selling science-fiction titles, where it sold 35,000 copies in three months, more than had been previously downloaded free. This garnered the attention of publishers: Podium Publishing, an audiobook publisher, signed for the audiobook rights in January 2013. Weir sold the print rights to Crown in March 2013 for over US$100,000. The book debuted on the New York Times Best Seller list on March 2, 2014 in the hardcover fiction category at twelfth position.
Ready Player One was written by Ernest Cline. This would be his first book. In June 2010 Cline sold his first novel, Ready Player One, in a bidding war to the Crown Publishing Group (a division of Random House). The film rights to the novel were sold the following day to Warner Bros. with Cline attached to write the screenplay. It is slated to be Steven Spielberg's next film. Honestly anyone that loves MMO's, The 80's and video games should check this book out.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I wouldn't direct your ire at CBS as for nearly 15 years they had a "look the other way" policy with regard to fan films until Alec Peters and Axanar not only DROVE way over the line (by orders of magnitude); when challenged by C/P they basically argued "Hey we don't think ANYTHING is Star Trek is copyrightable under the law..." <--- That was Axanar's argument in the lawsuit (it's all on file with the Federal Court))
^^^
Based on that I would hardly call what CBS did as over-reaction. they want and need to protect a Franchise that has been profitable for them for nearly 50 years now (and honestly, no, I don't think you c an say it's only because of fan films that Star trek is still in the public eye. Over those 50 years Paramount and CBS have published Books, games, and overall, there has never been more then a 4 year gap between some official TV or Feature Film project - and when you compare that to other high profile franchises - the Star Trek franchise has remained VERY officially active during those 50 years.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Pretty sure he was referring to Twilight, not Asimov and Heinlein.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Well, there's more to the story as it's not as simple as that per se because in 1938 part of the deal to get 'Superman' published originally (from the Wkipedia for what it's worth):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Siegel
Meaning they were doing 'work for hire' at that point. (And yes, this ultimately turned out to be a BAD deal for them, no argument there.)
With regard to the 'Superboy' Lawsuit:
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Studio pays you, then you give then ideas that they can make into a marketable product.
But once you've set that idea out into the ether, you gave no claim on the minds of others. You have no right to usurp the ability of others to change, develop and improve upon the ideas that they've acquired.
Freedom of speech is a right. Intellectual property holding is an entitlement.
That really is laughable. Ideas and concepts are the same thing as physical inventions and products. As a reward for all your time, effort, and resources put into developing any of those, your reward is ownership of them.[/quote]
It's not the same at all. If you want yo get paid for producing ideas, fine: get commissioned. Get crowd funded. Prove your worth and then find someone who will pay for more.
But once you've developed an idea, it's free speech. Meaning it can't be owned. It is free to move about the head of anyone who encounters it. It is free to be retold, reimagined and reproduced. It's an idea and that is the nature of ideas.
Greed is no excuse to deny the nature of things. It's a system abused by middlemen that stifles creativity by producers and consumers. The only winners are greedy executives without a single creative bone in their body.
Like with most government granted protections, it's an entitlement to the wealthiest and least productive shysters in the system.
Don't give too much credit there. It's possible some poor editors did most of the grammar and spellin work. How did they resist hanging themselves halfway through?
For Khan5000 thanks for that information. The Martian sounds like quite a remarkable story. Of course I'm not saying that can't happen but man it's a long shot. Almost literally one in a million on amazon that year. The Ready Player One sounds more traditional. Sure, of course you can still sell a book. Note that the subject has a strong built-in audience and a known and proven subject matter. I'm just trying to introduce a note of realism/pessimism that marks my outlook.
I just finished the 3rd installment of my science fiction series and will embark on editing tomorrow. I do derive some pleasure and satisfaction from the effort, but overall my decade of life in the small press has been a soul crushing experience. I always remember an old episode of Wings. The love interest girl was a good cello player and she got an audition with Charles from Mash and he told her she stunk. So she finally was able to give it up and be freed from the lifelong grip. Later he tells her she's marginal and has to work twice as hard as others. So she's stuck again. Well, since college I've been stuck and it seems I have no other choice but to write. I feel icky when I don't. Which I guess is as good a reason as any to do it.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Nope, was referring to Twilight.
Please, go tell your favorite band or musician that.
And that's not what "freedom of speech" really means.