Discussing the topic is like talking to Trump supporters. They say presented evidence is false or inaccurate, then say the exact same thing they're presented with but conclude it simply in their way.
It doesn't matter. Just enjoy Star Trek, if you need the cozy thought of a military focus to enjoy the show without feeling any shortcomings so be it, more power to you. After reading and writing the same thing for some odd three dozen times it just gets tiring
1. I don't support any of the candidates, all of them are pathological liars.
2. I love how people who seem to think that a service that has GENERAL ORDERS, COURT MARSHALS, AND A VERY STRICT CHAIN OF COMMAND is anything but a military.
Sorry you all can live in the rosy dream world you keep thinking Star Trek is, but military is military. Regardless of the humanitarian missions they do because guess what, MILITARIZES DO THAT.
Star fleet is a military, just deal with it. Like a Bernie Sanders supporter who wants to start a riot that can't see the writing on the wall.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
For roleplaying purposes. My ship has an small subdivision of security. Heavily armored commandos, experts in survival, hand to hand combat and use both kinetic and energy weapons.
Equipment:
A trench knife.
A machete-like utility short sword, useful to cut wood or to navigate through dense forests or jungles. Also for self defense.
A kinetic handgun sidearm operated by compressed gas, in case there are gas leaks or energy dampening field, also useful against Borgs and heavily shielded enemies.
A hybrid assault rifle capable of firing projectiles and plasma.
Several grenades, including plasma, fragmentation and smoke grenades.
Medkit and tricorder.
Extra situational equipment:
Survival equipment for planetary exploration missions.
Heavy ballistic shields for ship boarding missions. Made from the same alloy used for ship construction and also equipped with a personal energy shield generator. Can cover a whole man. They are used as mobile cover, to advance through hallways and corridors.
Portable replicators.
Rocket launchers.
Grenade launchers.
Heavy machineguns and miniguns.
Sniper rifles.
Flamethrowers/Plasmathrowers.
Mortars.
Turrets.
Drones.
Exo-suits.
Other kinetic weapons including shotguns, sniper rifles, autocannons, railguns, etc.
I personally think that if fedaration would have invested into interal defence system, the marines would not be needed assuming that for some weird reason we do not want to board them.....
[the system similar but not the same as in Gene Rodenberry's andromeda was used - why not the same you ask? because in adromeda screenwriters remembered that this system existed ONLY WHEN IT WAS MALFUNCTIONING and therefore shooting at friendlies - during 5 seasons I do not recall it firing at intruder even once...]
It has shown time and again, that missions dealing with the Federation's security and defense takes precedence over any exploratory mission. That in itself tells us what Starfleet's primary mission really is. While we have only one person stating on the show that Starfleet isn't a mission, there are many other characters who take pride in their accomplishments in battle including that one person.
However i would have a group of specially trained and handpicked troops that could storm enemy ships or planet bases. I would outfit them in a full suit of white maco armor which would blend in really well with the upcoming JJ ships which will have REALLY well lit interiors. The lighting in the JJ ships they will be attacking will be so bright that their maco helmets will need to have tinted eye lenses. This will filter out some of the lense flare but it could drastically reduce the accuracy of my troops in ranged combat.
I believe that in light of the threat of the Iconians, the Klingons, the Romulans- virtually any enemy we have encountered in STO, Starfleet would slowly become more overtly military in its operations. Many of our in-game missions are less explore this part of space and more "hey these guys want to kill species x, go kill them first. But ask them nicely to surrender first!" What may have first been a purely exploration based "fleet" would have to develop methods and procedures to protect themselves in space. Their very structure and organization is military in nature. But during the show and movies an emphasis is made that we are explorers, not soldiers. So, I imagine that they would have a defense force, but maybe not perhaps "marines" as we think of them. But you will have to take into account that my lens through which I view this is very coloured as I am in the US Navy myself. I tend to see things from a more militaristic perspective because it is the life I myself signed up for. I think we can continue to be explorers, but we must respond to outside threats upon our sovereignty and ability to conduct what we see as our missions- in real life and in sci fi.
So, to answer the question originally asked: No, my ship would not have "marines", but my crew would undergo extensive combat training prior to being sent to their A-School, or technical training if you will. As captain of my ship, I would hold frequent readiness exercises to keep my crew in shape and ready to face any threat. I would organize my tactical and weapons departments to provide for ship security and any offensive needs I might have- space or ground in nature. And I would fly with my shields up, all the time. My primary concern is self defense, but I must be ready to tackle any threat, given that my ship and crew have participated in 11 in-game seasons worth of war and time travel. We've seen a lot doing our part for Starfleet, and the universe shows no sign of slowing down when it comes to threatening our way of life.
I'm excited for the Kelvin content because it gives me an opportunity to rewrite and rethink my character bios. While many take issue with Abram's universe, I like the idea that this other, alternate Starfleet developed in response to threats from another time and dimension. With AoY letting us play as TOS characters, it stands to reason that perhaps some of us came from this newly discovered universe too. But I can't make that work without a T6 Kelvin Connie...
Discussing the topic is like talking to Trump supporters. They say presented evidence is false or inaccurate, then say the exact same thing they're presented with but conclude it simply in their way.
It doesn't matter. Just enjoy Star Trek, if you need the cozy thought of a military focus to enjoy the show without feeling any shortcomings so be it, more power to you. After reading and writing the same thing for some odd three dozen times it just gets tiring
Hey...I will not let you compare yourself to Trump supporters.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
2. I love how people who seem to think that a service that has GENERAL ORDERS, COURT MARSHALS, AND A VERY STRICT CHAIN OF COMMAND is anything but a military.
Sigh. I going to say 'police' again to you because your really don't seem to understand that things like chain of command or ranks or whatnot exist outside the military. I even bolded it for you. You know those time members of various militaries pop up and complain about ranks or promotion or career length in starfleet not been like in a military? Well there's a reason for that.
A militaries prime purpose is to be a military with humanitarian work etc. being secondary. Starfleet is the other way around. You'd no more likely claim the US Navy is a oceanography organisation just because they do some surveying every now and again that you should claim Starfleet is a military because it has to shoot things every now and again.
It's really not that difficult. You know that coast guard's, merchant navies and fishing fleets follow similar protocol to military navies? Turns out it's a really efficient way to fun a bunch of boats. Are they militaries?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I believe that in light of the threat of the Iconians, the Klingons, the Romulans- virtually any enemy we have encountered in STO, Starfleet would slowly become more overtly military in its operations. Many of our in-game missions are less explore this part of space and more "hey these guys want to kill species x, go kill them first. But ask them nicely to surrender first!" What may have first been a purely exploration based "fleet" would have to develop methods and procedures to protect themselves in space. Their very structure and organization is military in nature. But during the show and movies an emphasis is made that we are explorers, not soldiers. So, I imagine that they would have a defense force, but maybe not perhaps "marines" as we think of them. But you will have to take into account that my lens through which I view this is very coloured as I am in the US Navy myself. I tend to see things from a more militaristic perspective because it is the life I myself signed up for. I think we can continue to be explorers, but we must respond to outside threats upon our sovereignty and ability to conduct what we see as our missions- in real life and in sci fi.
So, to answer the question originally asked: No, my ship would not have "marines", but my crew would undergo extensive combat training prior to being sent to their A-School, or technical training if you will. As captain of my ship, I would hold frequent readiness exercises to keep my crew in shape and ready to face any threat. I would organize my tactical and weapons departments to provide for ship security and any offensive needs I might have- space or ground in nature. And I would fly with my shields up, all the time. My primary concern is self defense, but I must be ready to tackle any threat, given that my ship and crew have participated in 11 in-game seasons worth of war and time travel. We've seen a lot doing our part for Starfleet, and the universe shows no sign of slowing down when it comes to threatening our way of life.
I'm excited for the Kelvin content because it gives me an opportunity to rewrite and rethink my character bios. While many take issue with Abram's universe, I like the idea that this other, alternate Starfleet developed in response to threats from another time and dimension. With AoY letting us play as TOS characters, it stands to reason that perhaps some of us came from this newly discovered universe too. But I can't make that work without a T6 Kelvin Connie...
One of my crews is from the KT. I ran them in TOS uniforms with silver com badges and used the Exeter class until DR and then switched them to the Oddy. I look forward to RP'ing them properly
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
And its evidently some kind of mystery what the police grew out of, and whose rank structure they're mimicking.
But really, lets just stick to the core question: Who IS the Federation's military? Who? Because no amount of hippy free love wishing makes the Star Trek universe a safe place. So your choices come down to accept the evidence of many, many other characters and scenes, or embrace the steaming pile of TRIBBLE writing required to claim the Federation has no military at all...
I would think that each member world has its own military or defense force. Starfleet can't be everywhere.
This was my understanding too. Starfleet was the main force for the Federation and then each member planet had their own planetary defense force.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Starfleet's history as a military organization is fluid: it pointedly isn't (technically) military during ENT, but I saw the inclusion of MACOs in the last half of the series (including Archer's recommendation that the NX-02 carry some, possibly even having one as armory officer) as the beginning of the militarization of Starfleet (as well as the integration of Military Assault Command into an organization that would be well served by its inclusion). David Marcus makes a comment (in TWOK) that suggests he (as a civilian) thinks of Starfleet as a military organization.
But this isn't about the history of Starfleet. This is about my ship. My ship has marines, selected from Starfleet Security personnel assigned to my ship for the purpose of engaging in personal combat against Starfleet's enemies. The Dominon War made marines of most security personnel whether they liked it or not, and I imagine the same is true of the Klingon War of the early 25th century. My captain is himself a MACO, having earned the distinction serving with the Omega Task Force, and he commands a warship, whatever Starfleet may call it ("Technically, she's an escort...") or themselves. That makes marines a practical necessity.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
And its evidently some kind of mystery what the police grew out of, and whose rank structure they're mimicking.
But really, lets just stick to the core question: Who IS the Federation's military? Who? Because no amount of hippy free love wishing makes the Star Trek universe a safe place. So your choices come down to accept the evidence of many, many other characters and scenes, or embrace the steaming pile of **** writing required to claim the Federation has no military at all...
Starfleet is tasked with the defense of the UFP. Nobody argues against that. It's simply no their primary function but something they do because it's Starfleet that has well equipped ships everywhere anyway. Seriously, I have no idea what's so hard to grasp about that concept.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I would think that each member world has its own military or defense force. Starfleet can't be everywhere.
This was my understanding too. Starfleet was the main force for the Federation and then each member planet had their own planetary defense force.
according to TOS mutual defense was a part of being in federation - everyone relied for it at the starfleet - but also everyone was providing starfleet resources to do so
Starfleet's history as a military organization is fluid: it pointedly isn't (technically) military during ENT,
I thought that in ENT starfleet did not existed "per se"?
hence the enterprise being registered as NX-01 without the "U.S.S. prefix?
like United earth goverment launched experimental vessel and that the starfleet was built based on that LATER?
[I'd say my ship have internal defense turrets with special internal defence protocols but I dunno how much blown out of the water idea it is..... although it does not sound less probable than experimental starship AI contained in android unit? so yeah I would go by that.... with my ship]
2. I love how people who seem to think that a service that has GENERAL ORDERS, COURT MARSHALS, AND A VERY STRICT CHAIN OF COMMAND is anything but a military.
Sigh. I going to say 'police' again to you because your really don't seem to understand that things like chain of command or ranks or whatnot exist outside the military. I even bolded it for you. You know those time members of various militaries pop up and complain about ranks or promotion or career length in starfleet not been like in a military? Well there's a reason for that.
A militaries prime purpose is to be a military with humanitarian work etc. being secondary. Starfleet is the other way around. You'd no more likely claim the US Navy is a oceanography organisation just because they do some surveying every now and again that you should claim Starfleet is a military because it has to shoot things every now and again.
It's really not that difficult. You know that coast guard's, merchant navies and fishing fleets follow similar protocol to military navies? Turns out it's a really efficient way to fun a bunch of boats. Are they militaries?
I will throw out in their defense, court marshal and general orders (as in general orders of a sentry, for example) are very much a facet of military life that are not so readily present in other structures. While many organizations might mimic the military (as you said, it is an efficient method of managing individuals and assets), some of the specific aspects of Starfleet make me believe that Starfleet in the realm of the shows really is a military organization that focuses on humanitarian aid and peacekeeping. One of the main things that I think people get hung up on is this idea that an organization cannot be each of these simultaneously. In our modern world, perhaps this is not possible because of the balance of power and the agendas of different nations and governments. Another good point was made that in the United States we have both the Coast Guard, and the Navy (hooyah!). Both are a part of the military, but one conducts missions around the world. The US Navy has very much been a part of ocean exploration with its pursuit of nuclear power not long before TOS itself was made. We became one of the first nations to travel beneath polar ice and we've been responsible for a great number of oceanic scientific discoveries.
You can argue, and quite successfully I think, that such a fact alone does not make us "explorers" but we dabble in many different spheres. Starfleet too does this, as we can see from the show. Perhaps we are not so different, just have our priorities a bit out of order.
One of my crews is from the KT. I ran them in TOS uniforms with silver com badges and used the Exeter class until DR and then switched them to the Oddy. I look forward to RP'ing them properly
I've been trying to come up with a bit about how my crew has come by so many different bridge officers, might have to do a bit of work there! One thing I have stuck with though has been the name of my ship, I pass it down to each new model I fly I ought to find a good RP group one of these days.
I thought that in ENT starfleet did not existed "per se"?
hence the enterprise being registered as NX-01 without the "U.S.S. prefix?
like United earth goverment launched experimental vessel and that the starfleet was built based on that LATER?(...)
That's correct. ENT Starfleet was United Earth space faring organization, MACOs were United Earth military. But people are often confused about this very complicated lore detail because UE has a Starfleet and the UFP later also has a Starfleet. They use the same name. It's so confusing.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Starfleet is tasked with the defense of the UFP. Nobody argues against that. It's simply no their primary function but something they do because it's Starfleet that has well equipped ships everywhere anyway. Seriously, I have no idea what's so hard to grasp about that concept.
There's nothing hard to grasp about that other than what you just said MAKES THEM THE MILITARY. Being tasked to blow ships up in service to the state is not "We're not the military" in any universe .
Starfleet still existed, however the U.S.S. prefix came from the UFP. Hence why Archer always introduced himself as captain of the Star Ship (S.S.) Enterprise. I'd imagine that most of the time up until after the Earth-Romulan War, that the Coalition of Planets gave their "navy" the S.S. prefix.
2. I love how people who seem to think that a service that has GENERAL ORDERS, COURT MARSHALS, AND A VERY STRICT CHAIN OF COMMAND is anything but a military.
Sigh. I going to say 'police' again to you because your really don't seem to understand that things like chain of command or ranks or whatnot exist outside the military. I even bolded it for you. You know those time members of various militaries pop up and complain about ranks or promotion or career length in starfleet not been like in a military? Well there's a reason for that.
A militaries prime purpose is to be a military with humanitarian work etc. being secondary. Starfleet is the other way around. You'd no more likely claim the US Navy is a oceanography organisation just because they do some surveying every now and again that you should claim Starfleet is a military because it has to shoot things every now and again.
It's really not that difficult. You know that coast guard's, merchant navies and fishing fleets follow similar protocol to military navies? Turns out it's a really efficient way to fun a bunch of boats. Are they militaries?
I will throw out in their defense, court marshal and general orders (as in general orders of a sentry, for example) are very much a facet of military life that are not so readily present in other structures. While many organizations might mimic the military (as you said, it is an efficient method of managing individuals and assets), some of the specific aspects of Starfleet make me believe that Starfleet in the realm of the shows really is a military organization that focuses on humanitarian aid and peacekeeping. One of the main things that I think people get hung up on is this idea that an organization cannot be each of these simultaneously. In our modern world, perhaps this is not possible because of the balance of power and the agendas of different nations and governments. Another good point was made that in the United States we have both the Coast Guard, and the Navy (hooyah!). Both are a part of the military, but one conducts missions around the world. The US Navy has very much been a part of ocean exploration with its pursuit of nuclear power not long before TOS itself was made. We became one of the first nations to travel beneath polar ice and we've been responsible for a great number of oceanic scientific discoveries.
You can argue, and quite successfully I think, that such a fact alone does not make us "explorers" but we dabble in many different spheres. Starfleet too does this, as we can see from the show. Perhaps we are not so different, just have our priorities a bit out of order.
One of my crews is from the KT. I ran them in TOS uniforms with silver com badges and used the Exeter class until DR and then switched them to the Oddy. I look forward to RP'ing them properly
I've been trying to come up with a bit about how my crew has come by so many different bridge officers, might have to do a bit of work there! One thing I have stuck with though has been the name of my ship, I pass it down to each new model I fly I ought to find a good RP group one of these days.
Ships would have more officers than the usual ones Star Trek has.
Combat Systems Officer or CSO...pretty much in charge of comms and sensors
Deck Department Officer
Admin Officer - runs personnel, CO's Office and Public Affairs
Legal Officer - this is who security reports to. Handles court martials.
Maintenance Officer - oversees maintenance
Safety Officer
Supply Officer
Training Officer
Weapons Officer - he's in charge of armory, and ships weapons
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
There's nothing hard to grasp about that other than what you just said MAKES THEM THE MILITARY. Being tasked to blow ships up in service to the state is not "We're not the military" in any universe .
This is factually wrong. Putting aside that this is a fictional universe with a fictional service which's purpose and functions have been very clearly established and do not resemble anything we have today for easy reference, the term you are looking for is "paramilitary". In Starfleet's case, it is a different mindset that's important which makes the distinction. Or to make this clearer, the militaries function has been absorbed in Starfleet which however is not a military itself. It's Starfleet. Simply call it that.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
2. I love how people who seem to think that a service that has GENERAL ORDERS, COURT MARSHALS, AND A VERY STRICT CHAIN OF COMMAND is anything but a military.
Sigh. I going to say 'police' again to you because your really don't seem to understand that things like chain of command or ranks or whatnot exist outside the military. I even bolded it for you. You know those time members of various militaries pop up and complain about ranks or promotion or career length in starfleet not been like in a military? Well there's a reason for that.
A militaries prime purpose is to be a military with humanitarian work etc. being secondary. Starfleet is the other way around. You'd no more likely claim the US Navy is a oceanography organisation just because they do some surveying every now and again that you should claim Starfleet is a military because it has to shoot things every now and again.
It's really not that difficult. You know that coast guard's, merchant navies and fishing fleets follow similar protocol to military navies? Turns out it's a really efficient way to fun a bunch of boats. Are they militaries?
And guess what, paramilitary as the Coast Guard is, they're still bound to the Uniform Code of military justice.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Since my character is mirror universe, my highly trained and iron disciplined strike team is also my admiral's guard.
Only the the most loyal of my officers get consideration for the team and they must pass questioning by my betazoid guard commander and be fit enough and sharp enough to succeed, it's not uncommon for there to be fatalities in training
Uniform, mirror version of First Contact uniform
All with 2 piece rep sets and all armed with the delta rep phaser rifle
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
2. I love how people who seem to think that a service that has GENERAL ORDERS, COURT MARSHALS, AND A VERY STRICT CHAIN OF COMMAND is anything but a military.
Sigh. I going to say 'police' again to you because your really don't seem to understand that things like chain of command or ranks or whatnot exist outside the military. I even bolded it for you. You know those time members of various militaries pop up and complain about ranks or promotion or career length in starfleet not been like in a military? Well there's a reason for that.
A militaries prime purpose is to be a military with humanitarian work etc. being secondary. Starfleet is the other way around. You'd no more likely claim the US Navy is a oceanography organisation just because they do some surveying every now and again that you should claim Starfleet is a military because it has to shoot things every now and again.
It's really not that difficult. You know that coast guard's, merchant navies and fishing fleets follow similar protocol to military navies? Turns out it's a really efficient way to fun a bunch of boats. Are they militaries?
And guess what, paramilitary as the Coast Guard is, they're still bound to the Uniform Code of military justice.
The US Coast Guard is a branch of the military, they're not paramilitary. When I talk about a coast guard or a paramilitary coast guard, I not talking about the American one.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Shouldn't this Thread be in Ten Forward Captains Table?
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
The US Coast Guard is a branch of the military, they're not paramilitary. When I talk about a coast guard or a paramilitary coast guard, I not talking about the American one.
Important point. While Star Trek is a US American show, when discussing topics like this it is worthwhile to mention that outside of the US things work differently.
The German Bundesgrenzschutz that existed post WW2 until ca 2005 is a prime example of a paramilitary police force including special forces (GSG-9) that pretty much operated along the lines of what Starfleet could be portrayed of doing. Since 2005 it's Federal Police and lost it's paramilitary function but they still operate within the Coast Guard (in conjunction with other civil branches) which operates (light) Cruisers (albeit unarmed ones, since no paramilitary any more). Germany even has a cruiser type ships that's solely for SAR/Lifeboat duty. There are plenty of countries all over the world not having armed forces at all and Japan doesn't has a formal military but a equivalent defensive service. Starfleet is the same here, being a formal equivalent service. It's still somewhat important to keep the no military thing up (function doesn't equal name) since it's a different approach and mindset which is what Star Trek was (also) about.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Comments
1. I don't support any of the candidates, all of them are pathological liars.
2. I love how people who seem to think that a service that has GENERAL ORDERS, COURT MARSHALS, AND A VERY STRICT CHAIN OF COMMAND is anything but a military.
Sorry you all can live in the rosy dream world you keep thinking Star Trek is, but military is military. Regardless of the humanitarian missions they do because guess what, MILITARIZES DO THAT.
Star fleet is a military, just deal with it. Like a Bernie Sanders supporter who wants to start a riot that can't see the writing on the wall.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Equipment:
A trench knife.
A machete-like utility short sword, useful to cut wood or to navigate through dense forests or jungles. Also for self defense.
A kinetic handgun sidearm operated by compressed gas, in case there are gas leaks or energy dampening field, also useful against Borgs and heavily shielded enemies.
A hybrid assault rifle capable of firing projectiles and plasma.
Several grenades, including plasma, fragmentation and smoke grenades.
Medkit and tricorder.
Extra situational equipment:
Survival equipment for planetary exploration missions.
Heavy ballistic shields for ship boarding missions. Made from the same alloy used for ship construction and also equipped with a personal energy shield generator. Can cover a whole man. They are used as mobile cover, to advance through hallways and corridors.
Portable replicators.
Rocket launchers.
Grenade launchers.
Heavy machineguns and miniguns.
Sniper rifles.
Flamethrowers/Plasmathrowers.
Mortars.
Turrets.
Drones.
Exo-suits.
Other kinetic weapons including shotguns, sniper rifles, autocannons, railguns, etc.
This is what every last topic for every last Trek thing for all nerds boils down to, always.
[the system similar but not the same as in Gene Rodenberry's andromeda was used - why not the same you ask? because in adromeda screenwriters remembered that this system existed ONLY WHEN IT WAS MALFUNCTIONING and therefore shooting at friendlies - during 5 seasons I do not recall it firing at intruder even once...]
However i would have a group of specially trained and handpicked troops that could storm enemy ships or planet bases. I would outfit them in a full suit of white maco armor which would blend in really well with the upcoming JJ ships which will have REALLY well lit interiors. The lighting in the JJ ships they will be attacking will be so bright that their maco helmets will need to have tinted eye lenses. This will filter out some of the lense flare but it could drastically reduce the accuracy of my troops in ranged combat.
So, to answer the question originally asked: No, my ship would not have "marines", but my crew would undergo extensive combat training prior to being sent to their A-School, or technical training if you will. As captain of my ship, I would hold frequent readiness exercises to keep my crew in shape and ready to face any threat. I would organize my tactical and weapons departments to provide for ship security and any offensive needs I might have- space or ground in nature. And I would fly with my shields up, all the time. My primary concern is self defense, but I must be ready to tackle any threat, given that my ship and crew have participated in 11 in-game seasons worth of war and time travel. We've seen a lot doing our part for Starfleet, and the universe shows no sign of slowing down when it comes to threatening our way of life.
I'm excited for the Kelvin content because it gives me an opportunity to rewrite and rethink my character bios. While many take issue with Abram's universe, I like the idea that this other, alternate Starfleet developed in response to threats from another time and dimension. With AoY letting us play as TOS characters, it stands to reason that perhaps some of us came from this newly discovered universe too. But I can't make that work without a T6 Kelvin Connie...
STO Beta Test and Launch Veteran
Hey...I will not let you compare yourself to Trump supporters.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Sigh. I going to say 'police' again to you because your really don't seem to understand that things like chain of command or ranks or whatnot exist outside the military. I even bolded it for you. You know those time members of various militaries pop up and complain about ranks or promotion or career length in starfleet not been like in a military? Well there's a reason for that.
A militaries prime purpose is to be a military with humanitarian work etc. being secondary. Starfleet is the other way around. You'd no more likely claim the US Navy is a oceanography organisation just because they do some surveying every now and again that you should claim Starfleet is a military because it has to shoot things every now and again.
It's really not that difficult. You know that coast guard's, merchant navies and fishing fleets follow similar protocol to military navies? Turns out it's a really efficient way to fun a bunch of boats. Are they militaries?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
One of my crews is from the KT. I ran them in TOS uniforms with silver com badges and used the Exeter class until DR and then switched them to the Oddy. I look forward to RP'ing them properly
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
But really, lets just stick to the core question: Who IS the Federation's military? Who? Because no amount of hippy free love wishing makes the Star Trek universe a safe place. So your choices come down to accept the evidence of many, many other characters and scenes, or embrace the steaming pile of TRIBBLE writing required to claim the Federation has no military at all...
original join date 2010
Member: Team Trekyards. Visit Trekyards today!
This was my understanding too. Starfleet was the main force for the Federation and then each member planet had their own planetary defense force.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
But this isn't about the history of Starfleet. This is about my ship. My ship has marines, selected from Starfleet Security personnel assigned to my ship for the purpose of engaging in personal combat against Starfleet's enemies. The Dominon War made marines of most security personnel whether they liked it or not, and I imagine the same is true of the Klingon War of the early 25th century. My captain is himself a MACO, having earned the distinction serving with the Omega Task Force, and he commands a warship, whatever Starfleet may call it ("Technically, she's an escort...") or themselves. That makes marines a practical necessity.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Starfleet is tasked with the defense of the UFP. Nobody argues against that. It's simply no their primary function but something they do because it's Starfleet that has well equipped ships everywhere anyway. Seriously, I have no idea what's so hard to grasp about that concept.
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according to TOS mutual defense was a part of being in federation - everyone relied for it at the starfleet - but also everyone was providing starfleet resources to do so
I thought that in ENT starfleet did not existed "per se"?
hence the enterprise being registered as NX-01 without the "U.S.S. prefix?
like United earth goverment launched experimental vessel and that the starfleet was built based on that LATER?
[I'd say my ship have internal defense turrets with special internal defence protocols but I dunno how much blown out of the water idea it is..... although it does not sound less probable than experimental starship AI contained in android unit? so yeah I would go by that.... with my ship]
I will throw out in their defense, court marshal and general orders (as in general orders of a sentry, for example) are very much a facet of military life that are not so readily present in other structures. While many organizations might mimic the military (as you said, it is an efficient method of managing individuals and assets), some of the specific aspects of Starfleet make me believe that Starfleet in the realm of the shows really is a military organization that focuses on humanitarian aid and peacekeeping. One of the main things that I think people get hung up on is this idea that an organization cannot be each of these simultaneously. In our modern world, perhaps this is not possible because of the balance of power and the agendas of different nations and governments. Another good point was made that in the United States we have both the Coast Guard, and the Navy (hooyah!). Both are a part of the military, but one conducts missions around the world. The US Navy has very much been a part of ocean exploration with its pursuit of nuclear power not long before TOS itself was made. We became one of the first nations to travel beneath polar ice and we've been responsible for a great number of oceanic scientific discoveries.
You can argue, and quite successfully I think, that such a fact alone does not make us "explorers" but we dabble in many different spheres. Starfleet too does this, as we can see from the show. Perhaps we are not so different, just have our priorities a bit out of order.
I've been trying to come up with a bit about how my crew has come by so many different bridge officers, might have to do a bit of work there! One thing I have stuck with though has been the name of my ship, I pass it down to each new model I fly
STO Beta Test and Launch Veteran
That's correct. ENT Starfleet was United Earth space faring organization, MACOs were United Earth military. But people are often confused about this very complicated lore detail because UE has a Starfleet and the UFP later also has a Starfleet. They use the same name. It's so confusing.
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There's nothing hard to grasp about that other than what you just said MAKES THEM THE MILITARY. Being tasked to blow ships up in service to the state is not "We're not the military" in any universe
Ships would have more officers than the usual ones Star Trek has.
Combat Systems Officer or CSO...pretty much in charge of comms and sensors
Deck Department Officer
Admin Officer - runs personnel, CO's Office and Public Affairs
Legal Officer - this is who security reports to. Handles court martials.
Maintenance Officer - oversees maintenance
Safety Officer
Supply Officer
Training Officer
Weapons Officer - he's in charge of armory, and ships weapons
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
This is factually wrong. Putting aside that this is a fictional universe with a fictional service which's purpose and functions have been very clearly established and do not resemble anything we have today for easy reference, the term you are looking for is "paramilitary". In Starfleet's case, it is a different mindset that's important which makes the distinction. Or to make this clearer, the militaries function has been absorbed in Starfleet which however is not a military itself. It's Starfleet. Simply call it that.
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And guess what, paramilitary as the Coast Guard is, they're still bound to the Uniform Code of military justice.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Only the the most loyal of my officers get consideration for the team and they must pass questioning by my betazoid guard commander and be fit enough and sharp enough to succeed, it's not uncommon for there to be fatalities in training
Uniform, mirror version of First Contact uniform
All with 2 piece rep sets and all armed with the delta rep phaser rifle
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
The US Coast Guard is a branch of the military, they're not paramilitary. When I talk about a coast guard or a paramilitary coast guard, I not talking about the American one.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Shouldn't this Thread be in Ten Forward Captains Table?
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Important point. While Star Trek is a US American show, when discussing topics like this it is worthwhile to mention that outside of the US things work differently.
The German Bundesgrenzschutz that existed post WW2 until ca 2005 is a prime example of a paramilitary police force including special forces (GSG-9) that pretty much operated along the lines of what Starfleet could be portrayed of doing. Since 2005 it's Federal Police and lost it's paramilitary function but they still operate within the Coast Guard (in conjunction with other civil branches) which operates (light) Cruisers (albeit unarmed ones, since no paramilitary any more). Germany even has a cruiser type ships that's solely for SAR/Lifeboat duty. There are plenty of countries all over the world not having armed forces at all and Japan doesn't has a formal military but a equivalent defensive service. Starfleet is the same here, being a formal equivalent service. It's still somewhat important to keep the no military thing up (function doesn't equal name) since it's a different approach and mindset which is what Star Trek was (also) about.
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