Ok, explain something to me... if Star Fleet isn't the Federation's military navy... who is? Because we've seen the Federation go to war and I don't remember anybody else showing up. And in a galaxy as manifestly hostile as the Federation exists in, the idea that DON'T have a standing military is flat out absurd.
Ok, explain something to me... if Star Fleet isn't the Federation's military navy... who is? Because we've seen the Federation go to war and I don't remember anybody else showing up. And in a galaxy as manifestly hostile as the Federation exists in, the idea that DON'T have a standing military is flat out absurd.
Well Starfleet is tasked with defending the worlds of the Federation so yeah in time of war they would a sort of de facto military organization. I'm sure though each member world still has its own defense force as a last resort.
When in the last 150 years have they NOT been under threat? No matter how nice they like to paint themselves, they seem to have absolutely dreadful luck when it comes to neighbors...
starfleet had a marine service, the siege of ar-558 proved that much when it was needed during war time. even a different uniform that comes with being a starfleet trooper.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
starfleet had a marine service, the siege of ar-558 proved that much when it was needed during war time. even a different uniform that comes with being a starfleet trooper.
It was prototype ground combat gear worn by regular Starfleet officers.
@ OP: Functionally? Yes, I mean security is for repelling boarding parties, be boarding parties themselves, land with away teams to provide security, they take part in groudna nd space combat operations, so in terms of functions that would be marines. But there's no marine branch or anything, it's security, even if they have SWAT gear for special circumstances (like shields, vests, helmets, heavy weapons).
EDIT: Actually, disregard the "prototype", I'm not sure wether I made this up or if that's actually a thing. But point is, it's just gear used by all departments for a circumstance. Putting on desert gear doesn't mean theres a "desert ranger" branch in Starfleet as well.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
starfleet had a marine service, the siege of ar-558 proved that much when it was needed during war time. even a different uniform that comes with being a starfleet trooper.
It was prototype ground combat gear worn by regular Starfleet officers.
@ OP: Functionally? Yes, I mean security is for repelling boarding parties, be boarding parties themselves, land with away teams to provide security, they take part in groudna nd space combat operations, so in terms of functions that would be marines. But there's no marine branch or anything, it's security, even if they have SWAT gear for special circumstances (like shields, vests, helmets, heavy weapons).
EDIT: Actually, disregard the "prototype", I'm not sure wether I made this up or if that's actually a thing. But point is, it's just gear used by all departments for a circumstance. Putting on desert gear doesn't mean theres a "desert ranger" branch in Starfleet as well.
starfleet had a starfleet marine service. you need a dedicated ground force when the time comes in urban warfare seperate from starship security and personnel. siege of ar-558 was not the only case now i think of it.
starfleet had a starfleet marine service. you need a dedicated ground force when the time comes in urban warfare seperate from starship security and personnel. siege of ar-558 was not the only case now i think of it.
But there's no hint that is anything other than Starfleet officer just doing their thing. Why do you need a special branch for that? In TOS: Arena Redshirts beamed down in ana ctive combat zone where heavy weapons were used, likewise heavy weapons are operated by Security in the AR.
Not disregarding that there are specialised teams within Starfleet Tactical as that was never explored, but there's no indication of any specialised combat branch.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I agree. And to be honest, I don't really understand the obsession with them.
QFT
People are so obsessed with militaries andmilitary terms it's hard to comprehend. It doesn't help that most material on Star Trek also is about combat, but what we take away from the actual thing we all watched is that it's not meant to be a military, works differently and just because there are people who do pew pew doesn't mean it makes them "marines".
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I agree. And to be honest, I don't really understand the obsession with them.
I do it for Role Play, and since we been in one hot zone after another. With hardly any exploration only missions where you don't shoot something. They needed something to help combat the multiple threats. This is how I view it for RPing gaming purpose. This game is more on the combat side of Star Trek. If we had it the other way around, then I agree. We wouldn't need it since it would be more like the movies and series.
This is why I have the them on my ship to handle more heated situations. Which on missions I do rotate them in and out depending on how bad it will be. So its not I use them all the time.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I installed a Hazard Team on my ship, like it was used in the Star Trek EliteForce games.
A Hazard Team is the ideal solution for any kind of dangerous away team missions.
No Marines needed.
I installed a Hazard Team on my ship, like it was used in the Star Trek EliteForce games.
A Hazard Team is the ideal solution for any kind of dangerous away team missions.
No Marines needed.
I headcanon it the same way. All my Starfleet ships have two Hazard Teams which wear excursion attie with added harness and shield generator (via kit pieces). Regular "tactically" used security wears excursion attire without the shield generator (I jeadcanon personal shields being soemthing very special and only taking a few shots) for away team purposes, regular security duty has standard uniforms. The Special Task Force (MACO armour, although I avoid mentioning MACO in my heacanon) in their bright exosuits also exists, but only my captains and sometimes the first officer are members as it's a inter-fleet unit with high ranking officers that only get called upon for, you know, STFs
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
No. Starfleet is an organization based on exploration and peace, There would be no "marines" or otherwise dedicated military combatants with the exception of shipboard security. Use ENT as an example all you like, MACOs are earth military, and those were the days before the Federation existed. No single television show or movie has ever, repeat EVER, shown a dedicated military combat force serving on board a Federation vessel.
Where were the marines when Voyager got sucked into the Delta quadrant? Where was SEAL team 6 when the BORG boarded the Enterprise D? I hate to break it to you, they didn't exist.
Starfleet holds to it's ideals on being peaceful, and as such does not carry a contingent of warriors on board, sorry to break it to you.
This is complete TRIBBLE. Starfleet is a MILITARY ORGANIZATION. PERIOD. END OF STORY. ALL STOP. If so why did Kirk get court marshaled not once but twice? But guess what buttercup? Military organizations also do what's called HAO. Humanitarian Assistance Operations. Never really hear about them, but Military forces will pull into like a place like Kenya. We'll go ashore, help fix buildings, give free healthcare, free meals etc. Kind of stuff you never hear about, but we do all the time.
So honestly, yes Military type forces do exist, they don't always go out on every ship. Voyager was going out on what a 2 week mission and ship board security is usually good enough to get the job done.
But what about those forces Sisko found on DS9, you know the mission Nog lost his legs? Those are what we called GROUND FORCES, MILITARY FORCES.
Sorry kiddo, Federation does have them.
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Well, my TOS character's ship IS going to be named the U.S.S. Tun Tavern NCC 1775, so it's a safe bet there's marines on board.
HAHA! NICE!
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Any entity like the Federation MUST have a functioning military otherwise they would be dead within a day of their formation. The way I see it in ST that falls under Star Fleets job among other things. Yes they go out exploring and stuff but that's just part of it. Fed ships are mostly build for multitasking. The personnel on a modern fed ship have all received combat training and are expected to fight if they must for one and their is something called security on board a ship and consists of people who are all combat experts and that's usually enough unless there's a war. Not to mention Fed also has dedicated personnel who specialize in certain things like espionage/infiltration/sabotage, etc. I mean peace and prosperity is all well and good but you do want to have someone who is specifically trained in combat making sure it stays that way when say a bunch of klingons or borg start beaming in
I don't have marines aboard my ships, I have specially trained assault teams picked from the best and most intelligent officers under my personal command
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
I don't have marines aboard my ships, I have specially trained assault teams picked from the best and most intelligent officers under my personal command
Actually technially the term marine is a person who fights from the sea(or in this case space) and fights on either another ship or ashore on hostile territory. Example French Marines. They are not their own separate branch. They are simply French Soldiers who serve in Marine Regiments and go aboard ship.
So you can call them specially trained assault teams, but they still serve the same function as Marines. Marine is a function as much as a title.
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Considering that every season in STO there is a war going on it make sense for ships to have "marines" (used as a generic term) as part of the crew compliment. Many of my captains have a combination of 100 (or more) Armory Officers, Assault Squad Officers, and Security Officers that are either rare or very rare.
During wartime definitely, but it probably wouldn't be a permanent thing.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
I have Marine-type crewmen aboard each of my ships, and considering how many times the Federation has been in conflict over the past 20 years (in-universe) it's the logical thing to do. Yes, Starfleet is the exploratory arm of the Federation, however they also carry out other military duties such as disaster relief as well as defending the Federation when then situation calls for it (see the Dominion War and the Earth-Romulan War).
If Starfleet was PURELY about peaceful exploration, then none of their ships would have weapons or even a military rank structure. I believe Archer was rather vocal about not wanting to have weapons installed on his ship, although he later changed his mind when the Elachi showed up.
If Starfleet was PURELY about peaceful exploration, then none of their ships would have weapons or even a military rank structure. I believe Archer was rather vocal about not wanting to have weapons installed on his ship, although he later changed his mind when the Elachi showed up.
The XINDI. not the Elachi..
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Of course starships should have specially-trained assault squads. Even if they were just explorers, they would inevitably run across a planet that was hostile and they would need those troops.
Don't need to call them anything special, they are part of the crew with a specific job. Just like security, engineering, science, medical, etc.
Starfleed/Federation needs military as much as anyone else, to keep the peace that they have. If you don't have military, then you get run over by those who do.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
Comments
Of course it wouldn't; if the chicks are all "gorn", there's none left!
And...start the gorn jokes..in 5...4..3...
Militarize yourself and face to bloodshed.
Well Starfleet is tasked with defending the worlds of the Federation so yeah in time of war they would a sort of de facto military organization. I'm sure though each member world still has its own defense force as a last resort.
original join date 2010
Member: Team Trekyards. Visit Trekyards today!
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
It was prototype ground combat gear worn by regular Starfleet officers.
@ OP: Functionally? Yes, I mean security is for repelling boarding parties, be boarding parties themselves, land with away teams to provide security, they take part in groudna nd space combat operations, so in terms of functions that would be marines. But there's no marine branch or anything, it's security, even if they have SWAT gear for special circumstances (like shields, vests, helmets, heavy weapons).
EDIT: Actually, disregard the "prototype", I'm not sure wether I made this up or if that's actually a thing. But point is, it's just gear used by all departments for a circumstance. Putting on desert gear doesn't mean theres a "desert ranger" branch in Starfleet as well.
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starfleet had a starfleet marine service. you need a dedicated ground force when the time comes in urban warfare seperate from starship security and personnel. siege of ar-558 was not the only case now i think of it.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/The_Siege_of_AR-558_(episode)
nor the battle of the strong was another case when the klingons were attacking a federation world.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Nor_the_Battle_to_the_Strong_(episode)
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
But there's no hint that is anything other than Starfleet officer just doing their thing. Why do you need a special branch for that? In TOS: Arena Redshirts beamed down in ana ctive combat zone where heavy weapons were used, likewise heavy weapons are operated by Security in the AR.
Not disregarding that there are specialised teams within Starfleet Tactical as that was never explored, but there's no indication of any specialised combat branch.
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QFT
People are so obsessed with militaries andmilitary terms it's hard to comprehend. It doesn't help that most material on Star Trek also is about combat, but what we take away from the actual thing we all watched is that it's not meant to be a military, works differently and just because there are people who do pew pew doesn't mean it makes them "marines".
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I do it for Role Play, and since we been in one hot zone after another. With hardly any exploration only missions where you don't shoot something. They needed something to help combat the multiple threats. This is how I view it for RPing gaming purpose. This game is more on the combat side of Star Trek. If we had it the other way around, then I agree. We wouldn't need it since it would be more like the movies and series.
This is why I have the them on my ship to handle more heated situations. Which on missions I do rotate them in and out depending on how bad it will be. So its not I use them all the time.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
A Hazard Team is the ideal solution for any kind of dangerous away team missions.
No Marines needed.
Original join date: Jul 2008
I headcanon it the same way. All my Starfleet ships have two Hazard Teams which wear excursion attie with added harness and shield generator (via kit pieces). Regular "tactically" used security wears excursion attire without the shield generator (I jeadcanon personal shields being soemthing very special and only taking a few shots) for away team purposes, regular security duty has standard uniforms. The Special Task Force (MACO armour, although I avoid mentioning MACO in my heacanon) in their bright exosuits also exists, but only my captains and sometimes the first officer are members as it's a inter-fleet unit with high ranking officers that only get called upon for, you know, STFs
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This is complete TRIBBLE. Starfleet is a MILITARY ORGANIZATION. PERIOD. END OF STORY. ALL STOP. If so why did Kirk get court marshaled not once but twice? But guess what buttercup? Military organizations also do what's called HAO. Humanitarian Assistance Operations. Never really hear about them, but Military forces will pull into like a place like Kenya. We'll go ashore, help fix buildings, give free healthcare, free meals etc. Kind of stuff you never hear about, but we do all the time.
So honestly, yes Military type forces do exist, they don't always go out on every ship. Voyager was going out on what a 2 week mission and ship board security is usually good enough to get the job done.
But what about those forces Sisko found on DS9, you know the mission Nog lost his legs? Those are what we called GROUND FORCES, MILITARY FORCES.
Sorry kiddo, Federation does have them.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
HAHA! NICE!
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Actually technially the term marine is a person who fights from the sea(or in this case space) and fights on either another ship or ashore on hostile territory. Example French Marines. They are not their own separate branch. They are simply French Soldiers who serve in Marine Regiments and go aboard ship.
So you can call them specially trained assault teams, but they still serve the same function as Marines. Marine is a function as much as a title.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
If Starfleet was PURELY about peaceful exploration, then none of their ships would have weapons or even a military rank structure. I believe Archer was rather vocal about not wanting to have weapons installed on his ship, although he later changed his mind when the Elachi showed up.
The XINDI. not the Elachi..
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Don't need to call them anything special, they are part of the crew with a specific job. Just like security, engineering, science, medical, etc.
Starfleed/Federation needs military as much as anyone else, to keep the peace that they have. If you don't have military, then you get run over by those who do.