if there is a t6 connie then i expect to see a t6 miranda, nothing short of that. you cant have one without the other, both of them are from the same era even if the miranda is younger than the connie by a few decades, and the miranda is basically a connie saucer with nacelles and a mission pod attached to it. for that matter the excel is t5 and t5u, the centaur is the same, a excel saucer with nacelles and an engineering and torpedo pod attached to the underneath. i cant see any reason what so ever not to see these ships get an update nor for that matter be added as carrier pets as well.
Constitution=hero ship.... Mirandas are just fodder.
HERETIC! miranda class hero ships ftw.
Heroes: One and All!
:: removes hat, bows hear ::
the heroic sacrifices of those ships gave sisko the ability to survive long enough for the klingons to arrive. there is no greater calling. it shows there is still life in the old war horse.
on another note the trek team only had a finite budget to work with, during these fight scenes they didnt have the money to plough into shield effects. of course the plot armour was strong with the defiant as it should be
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,829Community Moderator
on another note the trek team only had a finite budget to work with, during these fight scenes they didnt have the money to plough into shield effects. of course the plot armour was strong with the defiant as it should be
With how long it took to slice through that one Miranda's saucer... I'd say the shields were configured differently. Instead of having a shield bubble, it was more like the shields in ST6. Just off the hull.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
if there is a t6 connie then i expect to see a t6 miranda, nothing short of that. you cant have one without the other, both of them are from the same era even if the miranda is younger than the connie by a few decades, and the miranda is basically a connie saucer with nacelles and a mission pod attached to it. for that matter the excel is t5 and t5u, the centaur is the same, a excel saucer with nacelles and an engineering and torpedo pod attached to the underneath. i cant see any reason what so ever not to see these ships get an update nor for that matter be added as carrier pets as well.
Constitution=hero ship.... Mirandas are just fodder.
HERETIC! miranda class hero ships ftw.
Heroes: One and All!
:: removes hat, bows hear ::
Oh, you know what they say:
Connie: Mirandas are inferior to Constitutions in all but one aspect.
Miranda: Oh, and what would that be?
Connie: Dying.
Mustrum "Crossing the streams since 1984" Ridcully
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
on another note the trek team only had a finite budget to work with, during these fight scenes they didnt have the money to plough into shield effects. of course the plot armour was strong with the defiant as it should be
With how long it took to slice through that one Miranda's saucer... I'd say the shields were configured differently. Instead of having a shield bubble, it was more like the shields in ST6. Just off the hull.
they would have to have shielding, it would be suicide going into space without some form of shielding because of natural hazards or enemies, even transports have shielding.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
if there is a t6 connie then i expect to see a t6 miranda, nothing short of that. you cant have one without the other, both of them are from the same era even if the miranda is younger than the connie by a few decades, and the miranda is basically a connie saucer with nacelles and a mission pod attached to it. for that matter the excel is t5 and t5u, the centaur is the same, a excel saucer with nacelles and an engineering and torpedo pod attached to the underneath. i cant see any reason what so ever not to see these ships get an update nor for that matter be added as carrier pets as well.
Constitution=hero ship.... Mirandas are just fodder.
HERETIC! miranda class hero ships ftw.
Heroes: One and All!
:: removes hat, bows hear ::
Oh, you know what they say:
Connie: Mirandas are inferior to Constitutions in all but one aspect.
Miranda: Oh, and what would that be?
Connie: Dying.
Mustrum "Crossing the streams since 1984" Ridcully
a certain connie was almost turned into slag because of a miranda. if it wasnt for a dirty trick by a certain captain to a vengeful genetic defective, that connie would of been scrap.
Mirroring the Chaos since 2011.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
IMHO all the T6 Connie speculation is ridiculous. It's a non thing and always will be.
What we see is specifically the TOS Enterprise, and my take is that whatever special 50th anniversary thing happens on 5/5 will involve an appearance from it. That's as far as it goes, as far as I can see.
However, in the realm of "baseless speculation", I'll call it now: we'll get a Shatner/Kirk voiceover.
If they can dig up enough unused Nimoy recording to have a sort of conversation between him and Spock, so much the better.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,829Community Moderator
they would have to have shielding, it would be suicide going into space without some form of shielding because of natural hazards or enemies, even transports have shielding.
When fighting Chang's BoP over Kitomer, the USS Enterprise-A and USS Excelsior did have shields up. Most of the Torpedo strikes didn't penetrate the hull until the Enterprise lost shields. Until then, the only outward evidence was major carbon scoring on the hull. There were no shield flares, unless you cound the electrical effect around one impact point after a torpedo had hit there.
And my reasoning for saying that the Mirandas did have shields was that GIF showed the Miranda on the right taking a beam for a full three seconds before it sliced through, indicating to me that there was resistance, quite possibly from shields. Budget asside, I'm looking at it from an in universe perspective. Full shield bubbles might make maneuvering difficult in tight quarters fleet actions. Also... I believe either Insurrection or Nemesis did show shield effects tight to the hull.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Those wishing for a T6 Connie will most likely be bitterly disappointed!
but what happens if it comes though? xD
Then the bitterly disappointed will faint dead away.
And pony up the Zen/Lobi, etc.
[And yes, I'm a HUGE proponent for a TOS era model T6 Constitution Class, I realize it's probably not gonna happen; but until I hear from devs at Cryptic that 5-5-16 doesn't mean 'T5 Connie available as a player ship via some method be it C-Store/Lock Box/Lobi; I'll continue to hope. Further, that's probably the ONLY way they'd EVER get me to open a Lockbox/Buy Master Keys as I haven't as yet. YS I'd like a T6 Connie that much. ]
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
they would have to have shielding, it would be suicide going into space without some form of shielding because of natural hazards or enemies, even transports have shielding.
When fighting Chang's BoP over Kitomer, the USS Enterprise-A and USS Excelsior did have shields up. Most of the Torpedo strikes didn't penetrate the hull until the Enterprise lost shields. Until then, the only outward evidence was major carbon scoring on the hull. There were no shield flares, unless you cound the electrical effect around one impact point after a torpedo had hit there.
And my reasoning for saying that the Mirandas did have shields was that GIF showed the Miranda on the right taking a beam for a full three seconds before it sliced through, indicating to me that there was resistance, quite possibly from shields. Budget asside, I'm looking at it from an in universe perspective. Full shield bubbles might make maneuvering difficult in tight quarters fleet actions. Also... I believe either Insurrection or Nemesis did show shield effects tight to the hull.
yeah but the mirandas acted as if they had no shields when they got struck by torpedoes to one and a cardassian phaser to another. force fields would not of contained those types of hits.
unfortunately it was for budget reasons, if they had the budget and the mirands had shield, they could of taken a few hits before they were turned into slag, but it isnt just operation return either, akira and galaxy class ships also had the same issue at the first battle of chin'toka.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
What begins as a peaceful summit quickly turns into chaos
You'd think we'd have learned our lesson by now. Avoid peaceful summits at all costs!
Seriously, stop inviting our captains to conferences. From the Romulan perspective, I think the most peaceful involved hidden bombs to kill the delegates, and the Federation's most successful peace initiative ended in a deep strike on Vulcan.
Just as planned. /evil cackle/
We're only sent to conferences someone in High Command actually wants to be sabotaged in a spectacular way, since they figured out our mere presence would do that...
on another note the trek team only had a finite budget to work with, during these fight scenes they didnt have the money to plough into shield effects. of course the plot armour was strong with the defiant as it should be
With how long it took to slice through that one Miranda's saucer... I'd say the shields were configured differently. Instead of having a shield bubble, it was more like the shields in ST6. Just off the hull.
they would have to have shielding, it would be suicide going into space without some form of shielding because of natural hazards or enemies, even transports have shielding.
tell that to the NX-01; it had no shields unless you want to count hull polarization as a shield
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
on another note the trek team only had a finite budget to work with, during these fight scenes they didnt have the money to plough into shield effects. of course the plot armour was strong with the defiant as it should be
With how long it took to slice through that one Miranda's saucer... I'd say the shields were configured differently. Instead of having a shield bubble, it was more like the shields in ST6. Just off the hull.
they would have to have shielding, it would be suicide going into space without some form of shielding because of natural hazards or enemies, even transports have shielding.
tell that to the NX-01; it had no shields unless you want to count hull polarization as a shield
and look at what happened to it in season 3, exactly the point iwas gettign at.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
if there is a t6 connie then i expect to see a t6 miranda, nothing short of that. you cant have one without the other, both of them are from the same era even if the miranda is younger than the connie by a few decades, and the miranda is basically a connie saucer with nacelles and a mission pod attached to it. for that matter the excel is t5 and t5u, the centaur is the same, a excel saucer with nacelles and an engineering and torpedo pod attached to the underneath. i cant see any reason what so ever not to see these ships get an update nor for that matter be added as carrier pets as well.
Constitution=hero ship.... Mirandas are just fodder.
HERETIC! miranda class hero ships ftw.
Heroes: One and All!
:: removes hat, bows head ::
"Any HEROES in here?"
"NO SIR!"
"Good. The only heroes I ever saw weren't breathing."
if there is a t6 connie then i expect to see a t6 miranda, nothing short of that. you cant have one without the other, both of them are from the same era even if the miranda is younger than the connie by a few decades, and the miranda is basically a connie saucer with nacelles and a mission pod attached to it. for that matter the excel is t5 and t5u, the centaur is the same, a excel saucer with nacelles and an engineering and torpedo pod attached to the underneath. i cant see any reason what so ever not to see these ships get an update nor for that matter be added as carrier pets as well.
Constitution=hero ship.... Mirandas are just fodder.
HERETIC! miranda class hero ships ftw.
Heroes: One and All!
:: removes hat, bows hear ::
the heroic sacrifices of those ships gave sisko the ability to survive long enough for the klingons to arrive. there is no greater calling. it shows there is still life in the old war horse.
on another note the trek team only had a finite budget to work with, during these fight scenes they didnt have the money to plough into shield effects. of course the plot armour was strong with the defiant as it should be
And the Klingons arrived to cause a big enough distraction for Sisko to make it to the wormholes so the Prophets could send the Dominion Fleet forward in time for us to deal with.
on another note the trek team only had a finite budget to work with, during these fight scenes they didnt have the money to plough into shield effects. of course the plot armour was strong with the defiant as it should be
With how long it took to slice through that one Miranda's saucer... I'd say the shields were configured differently. Instead of having a shield bubble, it was more like the shields in ST6. Just off the hull.
That's actually plausible. Th shield bubble visual that we're accustomed to didn't show up until the Next Generation. The only time one might say that the Constitution had a shield bubble was when it blocked V'Ger's shot.
There's actually a pretty good visual history of shields if you look at it.
The NX-01 had energized reinforced hull plating.
The NCC-1701 had a skin tight shield bubble. The Constitution refit, Miranda, and the Bird of Prey also had skin tight shield bubbles, that featured plasma arcing when taking damage.
At the same time as that in STVI, the Excelsior actually had a bubble shield, like you would see in TNG.
The Enterprise-D and it's contemporaries all had bubble shields. Which is why the Dominion War was so glaring in the absence of shield effects.
The Enterprise-E is an interesting case here. In First Contact she had bubble shields, in fact ones that the shields in this game are based on. In Nemesis however, she had bubble shields that were pulled in close and tight. Not visually indistinguishable from the hull like the TOS films, but a shield bubble that was maybe a few meters from the hull of the ship rather than a enveloping the ship and a substantial amount of space around it in an ellipse or sphere.
Mirandas being blasted through by modern weapons, assuming their shields couldn't be fully upgraded to the modern versions would probably be torn apart like that.
on another note the trek team only had a finite budget to work with, during these fight scenes they didnt have the money to plough into shield effects. of course the plot armour was strong with the defiant as it should be
With how long it took to slice through that one Miranda's saucer... I'd say the shields were configured differently. Instead of having a shield bubble, it was more like the shields in ST6. Just off the hull.
they would have to have shielding, it would be suicide going into space without some form of shielding because of natural hazards or enemies, even transports have shielding.
There's a difference between shields that are standard for protecting against general hazards in addition to the navigational deflector that makes faster than light travel possible and military grade deflector shielding.
if there is a t6 connie then i expect to see a t6 miranda, nothing short of that. you cant have one without the other, both of them are from the same era even if the miranda is younger than the connie by a few decades, and the miranda is basically a connie saucer with nacelles and a mission pod attached to it. for that matter the excel is t5 and t5u, the centaur is the same, a excel saucer with nacelles and an engineering and torpedo pod attached to the underneath. i cant see any reason what so ever not to see these ships get an update nor for that matter be added as carrier pets as well.
Constitution=hero ship.... Mirandas are just fodder.
HERETIC! miranda class hero ships ftw.
Heroes: One and All!
:: removes hat, bows hear ::
Oh, you know what they say:
Connie: Mirandas are inferior to Constitutions in all but one aspect.
Miranda: Oh, and what would that be?
Connie: Dying.
Mustrum "Crossing the streams since 1984" Ridcully
Well they are wrong.
NCC 1017 USS Constellation - Destroyed
NCC 16314 USS Intrepid - Destroyed
NCC 1672 USS Exeter - Destroyed
NCC 1701 USS Enterprise - Upgraded then destroyed
NCC 1764 USS Defiant - Missing11
Surviving a Constitution is a badge of honor in itself.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
they would have to have shielding, it would be suicide going into space without some form of shielding because of natural hazards or enemies, even transports have shielding.
When fighting Chang's BoP over Kitomer, the USS Enterprise-A and USS Excelsior did have shields up. Most of the Torpedo strikes didn't penetrate the hull until the Enterprise lost shields. Until then, the only outward evidence was major carbon scoring on the hull. There were no shield flares, unless you cound the electrical effect around one impact point after a torpedo had hit there.
And my reasoning for saying that the Mirandas did have shields was that GIF showed the Miranda on the right taking a beam for a full three seconds before it sliced through, indicating to me that there was resistance, quite possibly from shields. Budget asside, I'm looking at it from an in universe perspective. Full shield bubbles might make maneuvering difficult in tight quarters fleet actions. Also... I believe either Insurrection or Nemesis did show shield effects tight to the hull.
yeah but the mirandas acted as if they had no shields when they got struck by torpedoes to one and a cardassian phaser to another. force fields would not of contained those types of hits.
unfortunately it was for budget reasons, if they had the budget and the mirands had shield, they could of taken a few hits before they were turned into slag, but it isnt just operation return either, akira and galaxy class ships also had the same issue at the first battle of chin'toka.
Finally someone who paid attention. The clip above is always quoted as to why Mirandas supposedly suck.
Yet, people (conveniently or out of denial) forget all the other instance of this kind of destruction.
Here is a list (both canon and STO, canon is listed first):
Canon instances:
- B'rel
- Borg Cube
- Vor'Cha
- Excelsior
- Akira
- Saber
- Jem'Hadar Attack Ship
STO instances:
- Sao Paulo
- A pilot escort
What do these ships have in common? They are awesome right? People fly T5/6s of these right?
Well guess what:
They all died with no less effort than the Miranda. Funny how quickly people forget plot armor, the precious Defiant could have been fried as well in that video.
Anyone who is against T6 Mirandas based on that video is either in denial or needs to re-watch the shows. They are by no means deserving of the hate they get.
Maybe they'll make a compromise with the T5/6 Connie crowd and give an infinite use Consitition-class holodisguise. After all, we need to not pollute the past by showing up with obvious futuristic designs.
Also, just became we meet a ship with all those violations doesn't mean we meet the Captain. Shatner sounds out of STO's price range, from what I've heard. Best guess, Kirk will be leading an away team, and it's Sulu, Uhura, or Chekov left in charge. Or we meet the ship really early and encounter Captain Pike, possibly voiced by Bruce Greenwood. He might be more affordable. (But if we meet Sulu, maybe we can later meet him on the Excelsior.)
As far as the Na'khul star goes, they should have explained why we couldn't fix it. But to be fair, the Lukari star's damage was less severe than the Na'khul star's damage. And the Lukari star was damaged by something other than the Tox Uthat. I'll assume the the Na'khul star was just too far gone to be repaired. They just should have said so. There's always using time travel to alter the outcome, but then since that was history's required outcome, Walker would have just stopped us.
As for why we're doing time travel now, I'm glad they're clustering two major time travel storylines together. One is the natural outgrown of the other. And it allows us to have many different time travel missions all with only one or two excuses (Noye taking the ship we just invented and the aftermath of the Tox Uthat incident). Given this is the 50th anniversary year, a time travel heavy storyline is one of the best ways to bring in early Trek eras (especially TOS) into the game. After this, time travel can and should become rare again.
if there is a t6 connie then i expect to see a t6 miranda, nothing short of that. you cant have one without the other, both of them are from the same era even if the miranda is younger than the connie by a few decades, and the miranda is basically a connie saucer with nacelles and a mission pod attached to it. for that matter the excel is t5 and t5u, the centaur is the same, a excel saucer with nacelles and an engineering and torpedo pod attached to the underneath. i cant see any reason what so ever not to see these ships get an update nor for that matter be added as carrier pets as well.
Constitution=hero ship.... Mirandas are just fodder.
HERETIC! miranda class hero ships ftw.
Heroes: One and All!
:: removes hat, bows hear ::
Oh, you know what they say:
Connie: Mirandas are inferior to Constitutions in all but one aspect.
Miranda: Oh, and what would that be?
Connie: Dying.
Mustrum "Crossing the streams since 1984" Ridcully
a certain connie was almost turned into slag because of a miranda. if it wasnt for a dirty trick by a certain captain to a vengeful genetic defective, that connie would of been scrap.
Mirroring the Chaos since 2011.
Except the ONLY reason that happen was James T. Kirk ignored standing regulations (nothing new for him of course); and didn't raise shields as he SHOULD have. Had he followed procedure that incident wouldn't have happened, and STII:TWoK would have been about one hour shorter.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
and now let's count the number of mirandas killed...
USS Reliant: destroyed by genesis implosion
USS Saratoga: destroyed by borg
USS Lantree: destroyed by federation photon torpedo
USS Brattain: lost in a tyken's rift
USS Majestic & USS Sitak: destroyed by cardassian forces during operation return
USS ShirKahr: destroyed by cardassian OWP at chin'toka
Uncounted numbers of unnamed mirands: destroyed by dominion, cardassian and breen forces
Conclusion: Constitution -> Miranda where survival is concerned
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
if there is a t6 connie then i expect to see a t6 miranda, nothing short of that. you cant have one without the other, both of them are from the same era even if the miranda is younger than the connie by a few decades, and the miranda is basically a connie saucer with nacelles and a mission pod attached to it. for that matter the excel is t5 and t5u, the centaur is the same, a excel saucer with nacelles and an engineering and torpedo pod attached to the underneath. i cant see any reason what so ever not to see these ships get an update nor for that matter be added as carrier pets as well.
Constitution=hero ship.... Mirandas are just fodder.
HERETIC! miranda class hero ships ftw.
Well ok then...oooh a T6 Miranda with a Prefix Code Console. That would be awesome.
glad to see people getting into the spirit of discussing the miranda class. hopefully most will agree to a possible t7 miranda class upgrade next to a t7 connie xD.
also connies faired no better than mirandas.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
and now let's count the number of mirandas killed...
USS Reliant: destroyed by genesis implosion
USS Saratoga: destroyed by borg
USS Lantree: destroyed by federation photon torpedo
USS Brattain: lost in a tyken's rift
USS Majestic & USS Sitak: destroyed by cardassian forces during operation return
USS ShirKahr: destroyed by cardassian OWP at chin'toka
Uncounted numbers of unnamed mirands: destroyed by dominion, cardassian and breen forces
Conclusion: Constitution -> Miranda where survival is concerned
Alright, I will bite:
- Reliant: Fair enough, good battle, could have gone either way. It came down to Kirk and his crew outsmarting Khan.
- Saratoga: Ok, but after several minutes of surviving in that tractor beam. It was far from an instant kill.
- Lantree: The ship was shutdown and unprotected. Not to mention, it wasn't even the combat variant.
- Brattain: The same rift that almost took out the Enterprise too?
- Sitak/Majestic: That was also Dominion fire. One of them got flanked by a BATTLECRUISER. No ship would just walk away from that.
- Shirkahr: Granted, that happened. Akiras and Excelsiors got cut up the same way though and even the Galaxies took some good hits.
- Everything else: Well yeah, as without a doubt a crapton of other Starfleet ships.
As for the Connie VS Miranda thing:
- Connie is tougher, because its a little bigger, may have stronger shields.
- Miranda is way more powerful in terms of firepower. Assuming the weapon types (!) are identical, the Miranda has an additional 2 torpedo launchers and 4 extra phasers. That is of course if we talk about the common variant with the torpedo pod. The transport version (Lantree for ex.) wouldn't stand a chance. It would have roughly the same amount of phasers, but no torpedo weaponry whatsoever.
The Constitution class had its own chapter in history Now, much like the Miranda, it is used to patrol core systems or to take academy graduates on training cruises.
The Exeter class was a good example for a 2410 refit But it's function remains the same. If Starfleet ever gets pushed into relying heavily on these outdated ships in 2410, then it's already a lost fight. Let's face it. You can't pack a lot of things into that tiny space frame and you can't expect much from it.
However, I could imagine a ship of sufficient caliber that is not a Connie refit per se, but does take cues from its design.
Much like what happened with the Jupiter class
Here's what I'm getting at:
For example, remember the Dedication class by Chris Madden? It was one of the Enterprise-F candidates back in the day, along with the Odyssey.
In my opinion, a ship like / similar to this to honor the first series on its 50th anniversary would be fitting Its existence (for example) could be explained by all the tech advacements made during and after the Iconian War. An effort to bring lower caliber ships of the fleet up to speed as well.
Don't get me wrong, I'm totally okay with a TOS focused episode too Or Scotty's pet tribble XD Just a train of thought.
Post edited by kelettes on
"Ad astra audacter eamus in alis fidelium."
-
"To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
a certain connie was almost turned into slag because of a miranda. if it wasnt for a dirty trick by a certain captain to a vengeful genetic defective, that connie would of been scrap.
Mirroring the Chaos since 2011.
people keep ignoring the facts about that fight around here
1)The Enterprise's shields were NOT on, with the exception of some kind of defensive screen around the bridge
2)Khan knew EXACTLY where to hit the Enterprise to disable her, as stated in the movie.
they would have to have shielding, it would be suicide going into space without some form of shielding because of natural hazards or enemies, even transports have shielding.
When fighting Chang's BoP over Kitomer, the USS Enterprise-A and USS Excelsior did have shields up. Most of the Torpedo strikes didn't penetrate the hull until the Enterprise lost shields. Until then, the only outward evidence was major carbon scoring on the hull. There were no shield flares, unless you cound the electrical effect around one impact point after a torpedo had hit there.
And my reasoning for saying that the Mirandas did have shields was that GIF showed the Miranda on the right taking a beam for a full three seconds before it sliced through, indicating to me that there was resistance, quite possibly from shields. Budget asside, I'm looking at it from an in universe perspective. Full shield bubbles might make maneuvering difficult in tight quarters fleet actions. Also... I believe either Insurrection or Nemesis did show shield effects tight to the hull.
yeah but the mirandas acted as if they had no shields when they got struck by torpedoes to one and a cardassian phaser to another. force fields would not of contained those types of hits.
unfortunately it was for budget reasons, if they had the budget and the mirands had shield, they could of taken a few hits before they were turned into slag, but it isnt just operation return either, akira and galaxy class ships also had the same issue at the first battle of chin'toka.
Finally someone who paid attention. The clip above is always quoted as to why Mirandas supposedly suck.
Yet, people (conveniently or out of denial) forget all the other instance of this kind of destruction.
Here is a list (both canon and STO, canon is listed first):
Canon instances:
- B'rel
- Borg Cube
- Vor'Cha
- Excelsior
- Akira
- Saber
- Jem'Hadar Attack Ship
STO instances:
- Sao Paulo
- A pilot escort
What do these ships have in common? They are awesome right? People fly T5/6s of these right?
Well guess what:
They all died with no less effort than the Miranda. Funny how quickly people forget plot armor, the precious Defiant could have been fried as well in that video.
Anyone who is against T6 Mirandas based on that video is either in denial or needs to re-watch the shows. They are by no means deserving of the hate they get.
While you are right, the Defiant was more than just the beneficiary of plot armor, as aside from the Ablative Hull Armor that was only used on a few ships, keep in mind that ALL of those ships were flying in formation at least in part to protect the Defiant which was the flagship of that battle.
if there is a t6 connie then i expect to see a t6 miranda, nothing short of that. you cant have one without the other, both of them are from the same era even if the miranda is younger than the connie by a few decades, and the miranda is basically a connie saucer with nacelles and a mission pod attached to it. for that matter the excel is t5 and t5u, the centaur is the same, a excel saucer with nacelles and an engineering and torpedo pod attached to the underneath. i cant see any reason what so ever not to see these ships get an update nor for that matter be added as carrier pets as well.
Constitution=hero ship.... Mirandas are just fodder.
HERETIC! miranda class hero ships ftw.
Well ok then...oooh a T6 Miranda with a Prefix Code Console. That would be awesome.
and now let's count the number of mirandas killed...
USS Reliant: destroyed by genesis implosion
USS Saratoga: destroyed by borg
USS Lantree: destroyed by federation photon torpedo
USS Brattain: lost in a tyken's rift
USS Majestic & USS Sitak: destroyed by cardassian forces during operation return
USS ShirKahr: destroyed by cardassian OWP at chin'toka
Uncounted numbers of unnamed mirands: destroyed by dominion, cardassian and breen forces
Conclusion: Constitution -> Miranda where survival is concerned
and now let's count the number of mirandas killed...
USS Reliant: destroyed by genesis implosion
USS Saratoga: destroyed by borg
USS Lantree: destroyed by federation photon torpedo
USS Brattain: lost in a tyken's rift
USS Majestic & USS Sitak: destroyed by cardassian forces during operation return
USS ShirKahr: destroyed by cardassian OWP at chin'toka
Uncounted numbers of unnamed mirands: destroyed by dominion, cardassian and breen forces
Conclusion: Constitution -> Miranda where survival is concerned
Alright, I will bite:
- Reliant: Fair enough, good battle, could have gone either way. It came down to Kirk and his crew outsmarting Khan.
- Saratoga: Ok, but after several minutes of surviving in that tractor beam. It was far from an instant kill.
- Lantree: The ship was shutdown and unprotected. Not to mention, it wasn't even the combat variant.
- Brattain: The same rift that almost took out the Enterprise too?
- Sitak/Majestic: That was also Dominion fire. One of them got flanked by a BATTLECRUISER. No ship would just walk away from that.
- Shirkahr: Granted, that happened. Akiras and Excelsiors got cut up the same way though and even the Galaxies took some good hits.
- Everything else: Well yeah, as without a doubt a crapton of other Starfleet ships.
As for the Connie VS Miranda thing:
- Connie is tougher, because its a little bigger, may have stronger shields.
- Miranda is way more powerful in terms of firepower. Assuming the weapon types (!) are identical, the Miranda has an additional 2 torpedo launchers and 4 extra phasers. That is of course if we talk about the common variant with the torpedo pod. The transport version (Lantree for ex.) wouldn't stand a chance. It would have roughly the same amount of phasers, but no torpedo weaponry whatsoever.
The Constitution had 18 phaser banks and 4 torpedo launchers.
The Reliant had 18 phaser banks and 4 torpedo launchers.
I'd say that pound for pound or ton for ton, the Miranda was a tougher ship. The Constitution had a superior warp core and by proxy more powerful phasers and shields, longer range, and superior scientific capacity. But the Miranda, especially the configuration the Reliant used was very heavily armed for its size. Punching above its weight class in a way. But Overall, the Constitution of course was the bigger badder sister to the Miranda.
The Constitution class had its own chapter in history Now, much like the Miranda, it is used to patrol core systems or to take academy graduates on training cruises.
The Exeter class was a good example for a 2410 refit But it's function remains the same. If Starfleet ever gets pushed into relying heavily on these outdated ships in 2410, then it's already a lost fight. Let's face it. You can't pack a lot of things into that tiny space frame and you can't expect much from it.
However, I could imagine a ship of sufficient caliber that is not a Connie refit per se, but does take cues from its design.
Much like what happened with the Jupiter class
Here's what I'm getting at:
For example, remember the Dedication class by Chris Madden? It was one of the Enterprise-F candidates back in the day, along with the Odyssey.
In my opinion, a ship like / similar to this to honor the first series on its 50th anniversary would be fitting
Don't get me wrong, I'm totally okay with a TOS focused episode too Or Scotty's pet tribble XD Just a train of thought.
a certain connie was almost turned into slag because of a miranda. if it wasnt for a dirty trick by a certain captain to a vengeful genetic defective, that connie would of been scrap.
Mirroring the Chaos since 2011.
people keep ignoring the facts about that fight around here
1)The Enterprise's shields were NOT on, with the exception of some kind of defensive screen around the bridge
2)Khan knew EXACTLY where to hit the Enterprise to disable her, as stated in the movie.
Oh enough you people. Everyone knows that. And also the only reason the Enterprise survived is because that same complacent Admiral, pulled the Starfleet Skeleton key out and turned the Reliant's shields off. We know that it was a matter of tactics instead of the objective capabilities of the ship, we're just teasing because you guys are trying to right the Miranda off as a pile of scrap when Starfleet has utilized it as a workhorse of the fleet for a century. Show a little respect.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
As a matter of fact, I have a dental appointment on that date to get fillings. Last week I had a molar removed and another molar removed a week before.
Comments
the heroic sacrifices of those ships gave sisko the ability to survive long enough for the klingons to arrive. there is no greater calling. it shows there is still life in the old war horse.
on another note the trek team only had a finite budget to work with, during these fight scenes they didnt have the money to plough into shield effects. of course the plot armour was strong with the defiant as it should be
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
With how long it took to slice through that one Miranda's saucer... I'd say the shields were configured differently. Instead of having a shield bubble, it was more like the shields in ST6. Just off the hull.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Connie: Mirandas are inferior to Constitutions in all but one aspect.
Miranda: Oh, and what would that be?
Connie: Dying.
Mustrum "Crossing the streams since 1984" Ridcully
they would have to have shielding, it would be suicide going into space without some form of shielding because of natural hazards or enemies, even transports have shielding.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
a certain connie was almost turned into slag because of a miranda. if it wasnt for a dirty trick by a certain captain to a vengeful genetic defective, that connie would of been scrap.
Mirroring the Chaos since 2011.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
What we see is specifically the TOS Enterprise, and my take is that whatever special 50th anniversary thing happens on 5/5 will involve an appearance from it. That's as far as it goes, as far as I can see.
However, in the realm of "baseless speculation", I'll call it now: we'll get a Shatner/Kirk voiceover.
If they can dig up enough unused Nimoy recording to have a sort of conversation between him and Spock, so much the better.
When fighting Chang's BoP over Kitomer, the USS Enterprise-A and USS Excelsior did have shields up. Most of the Torpedo strikes didn't penetrate the hull until the Enterprise lost shields. Until then, the only outward evidence was major carbon scoring on the hull. There were no shield flares, unless you cound the electrical effect around one impact point after a torpedo had hit there.
And my reasoning for saying that the Mirandas did have shields was that GIF showed the Miranda on the right taking a beam for a full three seconds before it sliced through, indicating to me that there was resistance, quite possibly from shields. Budget asside, I'm looking at it from an in universe perspective. Full shield bubbles might make maneuvering difficult in tight quarters fleet actions. Also... I believe either Insurrection or Nemesis did show shield effects tight to the hull.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
And pony up the Zen/Lobi, etc.
[And yes, I'm a HUGE proponent for a TOS era model T6 Constitution Class, I realize it's probably not gonna happen; but until I hear from devs at Cryptic that 5-5-16 doesn't mean 'T5 Connie available as a player ship via some method be it C-Store/Lock Box/Lobi; I'll continue to hope.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
yeah but the mirandas acted as if they had no shields when they got struck by torpedoes to one and a cardassian phaser to another. force fields would not of contained those types of hits.
unfortunately it was for budget reasons, if they had the budget and the mirands had shield, they could of taken a few hits before they were turned into slag, but it isnt just operation return either, akira and galaxy class ships also had the same issue at the first battle of chin'toka.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
We're only sent to conferences someone in High Command actually wants to be sabotaged in a spectacular way, since they figured out our mere presence would do that...
Hilarious.
tell that to the NX-01; it had no shields unless you want to count hull polarization as a shield
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
and look at what happened to it in season 3, exactly the point iwas gettign at.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
"Any HEROES in here?"
"NO SIR!"
"Good. The only heroes I ever saw weren't breathing."
And the Klingons arrived to cause a big enough distraction for Sisko to make it to the wormholes so the Prophets could send the Dominion Fleet forward in time for us to deal with.
That's actually plausible. Th shield bubble visual that we're accustomed to didn't show up until the Next Generation. The only time one might say that the Constitution had a shield bubble was when it blocked V'Ger's shot.
There's actually a pretty good visual history of shields if you look at it.
Mirandas being blasted through by modern weapons, assuming their shields couldn't be fully upgraded to the modern versions would probably be torn apart like that.
There's a difference between shields that are standard for protecting against general hazards in addition to the navigational deflector that makes faster than light travel possible and military grade deflector shielding.
Well they are wrong.
NCC 1017 USS Constellation - Destroyed
NCC 16314 USS Intrepid - Destroyed
NCC 1672 USS Exeter - Destroyed
NCC 1701 USS Enterprise - Upgraded then destroyed
NCC 1764 USS Defiant - Missing11
Surviving a Constitution is a badge of honor in itself.
Finally someone who paid attention. The clip above is always quoted as to why Mirandas supposedly suck.
Yet, people (conveniently or out of denial) forget all the other instance of this kind of destruction.
Here is a list (both canon and STO, canon is listed first):
Canon instances:
- B'rel
- Borg Cube
- Vor'Cha
- Excelsior
- Akira
- Saber
- Jem'Hadar Attack Ship
STO instances:
- Sao Paulo
- A pilot escort
What do these ships have in common? They are awesome right? People fly T5/6s of these right?
Well guess what:
They all died with no less effort than the Miranda. Funny how quickly people forget plot armor, the precious Defiant could have been fried as well in that video.
Anyone who is against T6 Mirandas based on that video is either in denial or needs to re-watch the shows. They are by no means deserving of the hate they get.
"Let them eat static!"
Also, just became we meet a ship with all those violations doesn't mean we meet the Captain. Shatner sounds out of STO's price range, from what I've heard. Best guess, Kirk will be leading an away team, and it's Sulu, Uhura, or Chekov left in charge. Or we meet the ship really early and encounter Captain Pike, possibly voiced by Bruce Greenwood. He might be more affordable. (But if we meet Sulu, maybe we can later meet him on the Excelsior.)
As far as the Na'khul star goes, they should have explained why we couldn't fix it. But to be fair, the Lukari star's damage was less severe than the Na'khul star's damage. And the Lukari star was damaged by something other than the Tox Uthat. I'll assume the the Na'khul star was just too far gone to be repaired. They just should have said so. There's always using time travel to alter the outcome, but then since that was history's required outcome, Walker would have just stopped us.
As for why we're doing time travel now, I'm glad they're clustering two major time travel storylines together. One is the natural outgrown of the other. And it allows us to have many different time travel missions all with only one or two excuses (Noye taking the ship we just invented and the aftermath of the Tox Uthat incident). Given this is the 50th anniversary year, a time travel heavy storyline is one of the best ways to bring in early Trek eras (especially TOS) into the game. After this, time travel can and should become rare again.
Except the ONLY reason that happen was James T. Kirk ignored standing regulations (nothing new for him of course); and didn't raise shields as he SHOULD have. Had he followed procedure that incident wouldn't have happened, and STII:TWoK would have been about one hour shorter.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
USS Reliant: destroyed by genesis implosion
USS Saratoga: destroyed by borg
USS Lantree: destroyed by federation photon torpedo
USS Brattain: lost in a tyken's rift
USS Majestic & USS Sitak: destroyed by cardassian forces during operation return
USS ShirKahr: destroyed by cardassian OWP at chin'toka
Uncounted numbers of unnamed mirands: destroyed by dominion, cardassian and breen forces
Conclusion: Constitution -> Miranda where survival is concerned
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Doesn't every starship have a prefix code? O.o
Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13262502435_5604548f2c_o.png
also connies faired no better than mirandas.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Maybe. It depends on how many Mirandas were ever built and how many Constitutions...
Cinco de bleedin' Mayo, mate.
Alright, I will bite:
- Reliant: Fair enough, good battle, could have gone either way. It came down to Kirk and his crew outsmarting Khan.
- Saratoga: Ok, but after several minutes of surviving in that tractor beam. It was far from an instant kill.
- Lantree: The ship was shutdown and unprotected. Not to mention, it wasn't even the combat variant.
- Brattain: The same rift that almost took out the Enterprise too?
- Sitak/Majestic: That was also Dominion fire. One of them got flanked by a BATTLECRUISER. No ship would just walk away from that.
- Shirkahr: Granted, that happened. Akiras and Excelsiors got cut up the same way though and even the Galaxies took some good hits.
- Everything else: Well yeah, as without a doubt a crapton of other Starfleet ships.
As for the Connie VS Miranda thing:
- Connie is tougher, because its a little bigger, may have stronger shields.
- Miranda is way more powerful in terms of firepower. Assuming the weapon types (!) are identical, the Miranda has an additional 2 torpedo launchers and 4 extra phasers. That is of course if we talk about the common variant with the torpedo pod. The transport version (Lantree for ex.) wouldn't stand a chance. It would have roughly the same amount of phasers, but no torpedo weaponry whatsoever.
"Let them eat static!"
The Exeter class was a good example for a 2410 refit
However, I could imagine a ship of sufficient caliber that is not a Connie refit per se, but does take cues from its design.
Much like what happened with the Jupiter class
Here's what I'm getting at:
For example, remember the Dedication class by Chris Madden? It was one of the Enterprise-F candidates back in the day, along with the Odyssey.
In my opinion, a ship like / similar to this to honor the first series on its 50th anniversary would be fitting
Don't get me wrong, I'm totally okay with a TOS focused episode too
-
"To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
people keep ignoring the facts about that fight around here
1)The Enterprise's shields were NOT on, with the exception of some kind of defensive screen around the bridge
2)Khan knew EXACTLY where to hit the Enterprise to disable her, as stated in the movie.
While you are right, the Defiant was more than just the beneficiary of plot armor, as aside from the Ablative Hull Armor that was only used on a few ships, keep in mind that ALL of those ships were flying in formation at least in part to protect the Defiant which was the flagship of that battle.
Yes.
And which class is still in service canonically?
The Constitution had 18 phaser banks and 4 torpedo launchers.
The Reliant had 18 phaser banks and 4 torpedo launchers.
I'd say that pound for pound or ton for ton, the Miranda was a tougher ship. The Constitution had a superior warp core and by proxy more powerful phasers and shields, longer range, and superior scientific capacity. But the Miranda, especially the configuration the Reliant used was very heavily armed for its size. Punching above its weight class in a way. But Overall, the Constitution of course was the bigger badder sister to the Miranda.
God she's gorgeous.
Oh enough you people. Everyone knows that. And also the only reason the Enterprise survived is because that same complacent Admiral, pulled the Starfleet Skeleton key out and turned the Reliant's shields off. We know that it was a matter of tactics instead of the objective capabilities of the ship, we're just teasing because you guys are trying to right the Miranda off as a pile of scrap when Starfleet has utilized it as a workhorse of the fleet for a century. Show a little respect.
As a matter of fact, I have a dental appointment on that date to get fillings. Last week I had a molar removed and another molar removed a week before.