Yeah, that would be textbook taking too long to get to your punch line. They had that awesome reveal planned from before episode one and just wouldn't commit. Then the axe fell. Tragic.
Opinions (and minds) change. from 2009-2015 CBS said 'No' to any and every new Star Trek series proposal. In 2016 that changed. STO has changed a LOT in 6 years, so who's to say they might not be open to now giving the players/fans that want it, a T6 TOS TV series era Constitution Class ship?
Precisely.
Also, I was reading the observations by some that they thought the ship in the teaser was improved in some way? I think what is being seen is simply the same model we have always had. But seen with the best settings to make it seem more impressive. I can make my own ships Bussard Collectors look that nice with the right settings. IMO, the in-game model is overdue for an overhaul to match the canon restoration being done for the television model by the Smithsonian Institute. Assuming an Anniversary Edition TOS Constitution does come to us, there's plenty of time between now and May to render it anew.
I'd say they should aim for the TOS Remastered edition.
The Refit NX is an EPIC looking ship!!!!! I would start 5 more characters just to play that thing as long as possible!!!!!! Ever since the first " OFFICIAL" image showed up several years back that ship has been on my top 5 BEAUTIFUL StarShip designs EVER!
Not sure what happened to the QUOTED part of this,, but ^ is my comment and the links are someone elses.. newfangled technology and that....
Man when I saw her in my Ships of the Line calendar. Broke my heart.
The whole idea of making 150 year old ships up to class with new ships of the line is really ridiculous. No navy would even consider doing it to 50 year old ships. It's just not possible or practical.
I know players want it, but really are there any just lying around to upgrade? And if not, why the heck would they make a new ship of the line out of a old design?
Just FYI - The Galaxy Class is now over 50 years old (in game) - yet it has a T6 variant. Argument blown.
(Also the Excelsior Class - from STIII: The Search for Spock ALSO has a T6 variant - argument blown further.)
Oh, and please don't bring up the tired old 'breaks immersion' argument when we have Federation Captains flying Tholian Dreadnaughts (at T6) in game - thanks.
You can blow arguments off as long as you want to. The fact is that the people who are arguing against the inclusion of the Connie at endgame have some valid points so it's down to a matter of opinion and not of consensus.
The most telling argument I can make is that the Constitution class simply does not fit in at endgame from an aesthetic point of view. It looks old. The style is much different from the ships Cryptic is currently churning out. If they did do it, it would look nothing like the original and people would be mad about it.
The only opinions that carry any weight are Cryptic's and CBS, and the whole idea has been ruled out from the very beginning in the plainest possible language. So there we are and until we hear otherwise that is the situation.
Ultimately, I don't care one way or the other. They put it in the trailer, at the very end, so they're obviously trying to create buzz about it on purpose. It's probably the only reason Trendy is allowing the endgame Connie discussion to keep going. Not because they're planning one, but because it creates some buzz around 11.5 that will involve the 1701 at some point.
Yeah, the same is true of the antique T'Liss design. It has the same sort of aesthetic. It's available as the Romulan starter ship only.
Klingon ships, just don't look the same. The oldest from a RW POV is the D7 which was the only Klingon ship seen in TOS.
If the game were to have excluded retrofits entirely and no T6 version of anything older, then there would be no reason to ask for Mirandas, Connies, T'lisses and so on.
But the fact of the matter is that older junk, that had no business being in the game in the first place (T'varos, Klingon Raptors and so on), is already here and to available to enjoy for ENT fans... at T5 and 6.
I (and others) are merely asking for equal treatment here.
The whole ENT over TOS thing makes no friggin sense. Last I checked, ENT was a prequel.
So what if ENT looked more modern than it should have? Looks shouldn't matter, its what's under the hood that does.
We are at a point where Cryptic throws in the most odd and random "aliens of the week" ships that sometimes had less than 10 seconds worth of screen time. To ask for the icons of the past, is therefore hardly silly.
Considering that TOS started the whole franchise, this game is treatingit like a school bully gank squad. I don't know if its Cryptic's or CBS's fault at this point. But whoever it is, has no good reason for this to go on anymore.
I got 30$ right here for whenever any of these get released. You want em? Then stop this ridicolous bias!
They only favor Enterprise over TOS where non-Starfleet ships are concerned. Those had minimal screen time, so they get a pass. It isn't a bias on Cryptic's part, as far as I can tell, but word from the rights holders at CBS. Look at your last line and tell me which company, with all of that demand, would refuse to make a decent amount of money by fulfilling it out of sheer stubbornness? CBS, on the other hand, probably makes nothing off of ships sold in this game, so they can afford to hold to a principle.
Working from what we actually see in the game, I would speculate that it's more than just no endgame Constitutions in that rule, but instead nothing that appeared onscreen in TOS, and no Starfleet vessels definitely chronologically earlier than the Excelsior at endgame. The Constellation skin being available up to Fleet T5-U still fits this rule because we have no idea when they went into production.
Precisely. The devs have always said that CBS has vetoed the TRIBBLE out of an endgame Constitution class. In fact I read once that the Constitution being in there at tier 2 was basically the devs slipping it in without permission and CBS let it ride.
Yeah, that would be textbook taking too long to get to your punch line. They had that awesome reveal planned from before episode one and just wouldn't commit. Then the axe fell. Tragic.
I gotta say though, I do appreciate that they had it planned out. All because of a damn executive who didn't believe in Star Trek. A Travesty.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
The whole idea of making 150 year old ships up to class with new ships of the line is really ridiculous. No navy would even consider doing it to 50 year old ships. It's just not possible or practical.
I know players want it, but really are there any just lying around to upgrade? And if not, why the heck would they make a new ship of the line out of a old design?
Just FYI - The Galaxy Class is now over 50 years old (in game) - yet it has a T6 variant. Argument blown.
(Also the Excelsior Class - from STIII: The Search for Spock ALSO has a T6 variant - argument blown further.)
Oh, and please don't bring up the tired old 'breaks immersion' argument when we have Federation Captains flying Tholian Dreadnaughts (at T6) in game - thanks.
You can blow arguments off as long as you want to. The fact is that the people who are arguing against the inclusion of the Connie at endgame have some valid points so it's down to a matter of opinion and not of consensus.
The most telling argument I can make is that the Constitution class simply does not fit in at endgame from an aesthetic point of view. It looks old. The style is much different from the ships Cryptic is currently churning out. If they did do it, it would look nothing like the original and people would be mad about it.
The only opinions that carry any weight are Cryptic's and CBS, and the whole idea has been ruled out from the very beginning in the plainest possible language. So there we are and until we hear otherwise that is the situation.
Ultimately, I don't care one way or the other. They put it in the trailer, at the very end, so they're obviously trying to create buzz about it on purpose. It's probably the only reason Trendy is allowing the endgame Connie discussion to keep going. Not because they're planning one, but because it creates some buzz around 11.5 that will involve the 1701 at some point.
Yeah, the same is true of the antique T'Liss design. It has the same sort of aesthetic. It's available as the Romulan starter ship only.
Klingon ships, just don't look the same. The oldest from a RW POV is the D7 which was the only Klingon ship seen in TOS.
If the game were to have excluded retrofits entirely and no T6 version of anything older, then there would be no reason to ask for Mirandas, Connies, T'lisses and so on.
But the fact of the matter is that older junk, that had no business being in the game in the first place (T'varos, Klingon Raptors and so on), is already here and to available to enjoy for ENT fans... at T5 and 6.
I (and others) are merely asking for equal treatment here.
The whole ENT over TOS thing makes no friggin sense. Last I checked, ENT was a prequel.
So what if ENT looked more modern than it should have? Looks shouldn't matter, its what's under the hood that does.
We are at a point where Cryptic throws in the most odd and random "aliens of the week" ships that sometimes had less than 10 seconds worth of screen time. To ask for the icons of the past, is therefore hardly silly.
Considering that TOS started the whole franchise, this game is treatingit like a school bully gank squad. I don't know if its Cryptic's or CBS's fault at this point. But whoever it is, has no good reason for this to go on anymore.
I got 30$ right here for whenever any of these get released. You want em? Then stop this ridicolous bias!
They only favor Enterprise over TOS where non-Starfleet ships are concerned. Those had minimal screen time, so they get a pass. It isn't a bias on Cryptic's part, as far as I can tell, but word from the rights holders at CBS. Look at your last line and tell me which company, with all of that demand, would refuse to make a decent amount of money by fulfilling it out of sheer stubbornness? CBS, on the other hand, probably makes nothing off of ships sold in this game, so they can afford to hold to a principle.
Working from what we actually see in the game, I would speculate that it's more than just no endgame Constitutions in that rule, but instead nothing that appeared onscreen in TOS, and no Starfleet vessels definitely chronologically earlier than the Excelsior at endgame. The Constellation skin being available up to Fleet T5-U still fits this rule because we have no idea when they went into production.
We actually have corroborating evidence here! Romulans get the T'Liss. But while they are similar stat-wise, none of the T'Varo line can use the T'Liss skin.
As for the Constellation, it's a TNG ship. It was considered obsolete in TNG, but Picard(or was it Riker?) served on one during his career, so it wasn't that obsolete.
So, yeah, it seems that the primary guiding principle here has nothing to do with anything in-universe, but is rather an out-of-universe principle of marketing.
Right, the T'liss situation, and no T5 or above versions of the Miranda and Oberth are the basis for my reverse-engineered "rule." I could be way off, but it fits the way that things are in the game right now, and have been since launch.
It was Picard who served on the Constellation class Stargazer. Riker served on the Oberth class Pegasus.
As far as how old the Constellation is, they never told us, but it clearly uses Constitution refit body parts. It could have been in production as early as the refit project, or any time thereafter, but is clearly a relic by TNG. My personal suspicion was that it was put into production around ST VI to supplement the Excelsiors and Mirandas. Constitution refit style parts would have still been necessary for the Miranda, so there would have been a steady supply.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
Right, the T'liss situation, and no T5 or above versions of the Miranda and Oberth are the basis for my reverse-engineered "rule." I could be way off, but it fits the way that things are in the game right now, and have been since launch.
It was Picard who served on the Constellation class Stargazer. Riker served on the Oberth class Pegasus.
As far as how old the Constellation is, they never told us, but it clearly uses Constitution refit body parts. It could have been in production as early as the refit project, or any time thereafter, but is clearly a relic by TNG. My personal suspicion was that it was put into production around ST VI to supplement the Excelsiors and Mirandas. Constitution refit style parts would have still been necessary for the Miranda, so there would have been a steady supply.
as i recall by the time of TNG the hathaway was at least 80 years old and most had been retired from active service. that could put the origin of the constellation around in and around the 2280's. while yes, using parts for the connie refit, a lot of it is its own ship.
however, if starfleet thought the const is as useful as the miranda or the excelsior class ship as old workhorses of the federation fleet, it would likely still be in service, but it is not. so clearly the const had a finite amount of potential before it was scrapped. it clearly had more potential than the connie or the ambassador class, both these classes didnt last much beyond 20-40 years at most. the excelsior and miranda classes have been operating solidly since 2280's into 2410, thats almost 130 years of service, by far the longest serving classes the federation has ever had.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
There we go, a 2285 date. Same vintage as the Excelsior, if that was the beginning of the line.
The Constellation's role as a filler between the Excelsior and Miranda, admittedly conjecture on my part, had obviously ended by the 2360s. probably due to the various refits to the Miranda and Excelsior between the TMP and TNG eras. The Ambassador probably took over the heavier duties of the Excelsior for a time when it was new, though it doesn't appear to have been a large production run, which, along with the above-mentioned refits to the Excelsior and Miranda, allowed those classes to phase out the Constellation.
None of this matters, of course, it's just fun to try and piece together a reasonable time frame for these ships, rather than the boring real world reasons for the lack of Constellations and Ambassadors in early TNG, which were that they were retcons, inserted after the fact as having been around decades prior.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
Yeah, that would be textbook taking too long to get to your punch line. They had that awesome reveal planned from before episode one and just wouldn't commit. Then the axe fell. Tragic.
I think that's a problem you have when you think you need to stretch your material over 7 seasons.
Thankfully, some series are now developed these days that only need to fill 10 episodes a season or so and can fill it with all the good ideas and can abandon the filler stuff. It's not without drawbacks, of course - sometimes it is just fun watching your favorite characters interact and do their thing, even if the plot is filler, but on the plus side, you can get a lot of quality content that way. The recent Netflix Marvel series are a good example for that.
I am not sure if people at CBS are willing to go there with Trek, though. (Or if the fans are ready for that. I think many of us long for another one of those 7 season shows...)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I'm gonna give this crappy board five minutes to show my comment.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
I think the Enterprise at the end of the trailer suggests that somehow Kirk's Enterprise will be involved in a time travel mission or something.
My reasoning behind this is: We were shown events that we've played, or witnessed through out various missions, (through that temporal window thing), as though they have been monitoring us, and the timeline.
I'm willing to bet we will have to defend Kirk's Enterprise or something, maybe, something similar to that mission with Tasha and the Enterprise C, Ambassador class.
I don't think there's a T6 connie tho. I would love to fly a T6 Exeter or Excalibur class, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
I only wish we could earn the "Temporal Investigations" agent title for completing either an upcoming mission, or after defeating so many Na'kuhl or something.
There we go, a 2285 date. Same vintage as the Excelsior, if that was the beginning of the line.
The Constellation's role as a filler between the Excelsior and Miranda, admittedly conjecture on my part, had obviously ended by the 2360s. probably due to the various refits to the Miranda and Excelsior between the TMP and TNG eras. The Ambassador probably took over the heavier duties of the Excelsior for a time when it was new, though it doesn't appear to have been a large production run, which, along with the above-mentioned refits to the Excelsior and Miranda, allowed those classes to phase out the Constellation.
None of this matters, of course, it's just fun to try and piece together a reasonable time frame for these ships, rather than the boring real world reasons for the lack of Constellations and Ambassadors in early TNG, which were that they were retcons, inserted after the fact as having been around decades prior.
The ambassador seems to have been kinda like a prototype for the Galaxy, thus it probably never even got a full production run.
I'm not going to stop posting this until my comment is approved.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
This approval bull TRIBBLE is appalling. If my comment is too long, then there should be a lower character limit, but in truth it's well below it.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
That's four times. You guys need to fix your damn board. So I'm gonna try and make it bit sized. I spend TRIBBLE time writing a comment and then it needs approval, with no links or anything in it EXCEPT links that are quoted in other people's posts that are already HERE.
Right, the T'liss situation, and no T5 or above versions of the Miranda and Oberth are the basis for my reverse-engineered "rule." I could be way off, but it fits the way that things are in the game right now, and have been since launch.
It was Picard who served on the Constellation class Stargazer. Riker served on the Oberth class Pegasus.
As far as how old the Constellation is, they never told us, but it clearly uses Constitution refit body parts. It could have been in production as early as the refit project, or any time thereafter, but is clearly a relic by TNG. My personal suspicion was that it was put into production around ST VI to supplement the Excelsiors and Mirandas. Constitution refit style parts would have still been necessary for the Miranda, so there would have been a steady supply.
The Constellation class is actually quite a bit original. Even the nacelles are Constitution refit style, but not quite the same. Also I think the four nacelle design was clearly a new experimental configuration.
I think it should be noted that the Constellation is not the Excelsior's Miranda. That would be the Centaur class. Same Saucer, same nacelles.
Starfleet tries to fill all roles so the Constellation may have had a position we're not clear on. I find it interesting that it was named after the Constellation, which was a very important if tragic ship.
Right, the T'liss situation, and no T5 or above versions of the Miranda and Oberth are the basis for my reverse-engineered "rule." I could be way off, but it fits the way that things are in the game right now, and have been since launch.
It was Picard who served on the Constellation class Stargazer. Riker served on the Oberth class Pegasus.
As far as how old the Constellation is, they never told us, but it clearly uses Constitution refit body parts. It could have been in production as early as the refit project, or any time thereafter, but is clearly a relic by TNG. My personal suspicion was that it was put into production around ST VI to supplement the Excelsiors and Mirandas. Constitution refit style parts would have still been necessary for the Miranda, so there would have been a steady supply.
as i recall by the time of TNG the hathaway was at least 80 years old and most had been retired from active service. that could put the origin of the constellation around in and around the 2280's. while yes, using parts for the connie refit, a lot of it is its own ship.
however, if starfleet thought the const is as useful as the miranda or the excelsior class ship as old workhorses of the federation fleet, it would likely still be in service, but it is not. so clearly the const had a finite amount of potential before it was scrapped. it clearly had more potential than the connie or the ambassador class, both these classes didnt last much beyond 20-40 years at most. the excelsior and miranda classes have been operating solidly since 2280's into 2410, thats almost 130 years of service, by far the longest serving classes the federation has ever had.
I think the break is that the Constitution class wasn't the workhorse. It was the spearhead, the flagship class. By 2285 even the Enterprise herself was a cadet training ship. The Enterprise-A was likely the youngest ship of the class, the last of her kind to be commissioned. There are three ways of looking at it. Either they had just built her, just upgraded her, or they brought her out of mothballs so they could give her to Kirk and honor the first 1701. Scotty's "this new ship must've been put together by monkeys" lamentation would indicate the former, so that was the last Constitution class, likely built to fill a space in the fleet, or considering how new all the gear was, likely testing the Constitution class' viability for continued upgrade. So they build her brand spanking new with all the latest bells and whistles and see what she can do. But this is at the same time that the Excelsior is completing her trial runs. So they have the Enterprise-A over here and the Constitution over here for six years and they compare them side by side. The Enterprise with THE crew on a new five year mission after the Sha Ka Ree incident, then you have Sulu in command of the Excelsior for three years, you line up the stats. And they decide to retire the Enterprise-A at only eight years old.
There's also the matter of legacy. I think that for sentimental value there are a lot of people who wouldn't want to see the Constitution THE Constitution the ship class that had carried Starfleet on her back for almost 50 years 2245-2283 (extended to 2293) reduced to a cargo ship or a patrol ship. Better to put her out to pasture. In the illustrious words of Bishop, "If I can't be top of the line I'd rather not be anything."
I liken it to the F-14 Tomcat, a pure interceptor fighter that was replaced by a contemporary in the F-18 and rather than fall into a lighter role, she was honorably retired. Of course the Tomcat was the largest plane on the deck (I speak from experience) and had LOTS of unique parts and equipment and weapons.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
There we go, a 2285 date. Same vintage as the Excelsior, if that was the beginning of the line.
The Constellation's role as a filler between the Excelsior and Miranda, admittedly conjecture on my part, had obviously ended by the 2360s. probably due to the various refits to the Miranda and Excelsior between the TMP and TNG eras. The Ambassador probably took over the heavier duties of the Excelsior for a time when it was new, though it doesn't appear to have been a large production run, which, along with the above-mentioned refits to the Excelsior and Miranda, allowed those classes to phase out the Constellation.
None of this matters, of course, it's just fun to try and piece together a reasonable time frame for these ships, rather than the boring real world reasons for the lack of Constellations and Ambassadors in early TNG, which were that they were retcons, inserted after the fact as having been around decades prior.
Not so fast, the Ambassador was not a retcon, the basic form was established as soon as we walked into the conference lounge of the Enterprise-D, there was always an Ambassador, it's just that finding money to build one especially early on was an issue. Gene Roddenberry had to purposefully write a scene in engineering for the pilot otherwise the set might not have ever been built.
The Constellation is an interesting point about what I wrote earlier about the Constitution never appearing in TNG era Star Trek as a full fledged ship in the present. The Stargazer and the Hathaway were both instances where they were going to make the guest ship a Constitution class. The idea being that Picard served on a Constitution and then a Galaxy vs Constitution class fight.
The Ambassador succeeded the Excelsior as the ship of the line, the flagship, the head starship, as it was then succeeded by the Galaxy.
All the supplementary material generally paints the picture that the Ambassador was never the SUPER success that the Constitution and Excelsior before her were as lead explorer starships and the fact that she was replaced early in her lifespan by the Galaxy seems to support that.
I think the Excelsior was so successful that she built up a LOT of good will, and generally kept up with performance after the Ambassador and Galaxy took over. Lots of Admirals cruised around in Excelsiors, either because they were just that good, or sentimental value. I have the sense that if it had been am Excelsior class at Veridian III the Duras sisters would've instead of saying, "THAT is a Galaxy class starship, we're no match for them!" they would've said, "You want us to take down an Excelsior class starship? I'd like to get out of here in one piece you know." Not the absolute we're gonna get crushed, but we're not gonna be pretty after this fight.
Yeah, that would be textbook taking too long to get to your punch line. They had that awesome reveal planned from before episode one and just wouldn't commit. Then the axe fell. Tragic.
I think that's a problem you have when you think you need to stretch your material over 7 seasons.
Thankfully, some series are now developed these days that only need to fill 10 episodes a season or so and can fill it with all the good ideas and can abandon the filler stuff. It's not without drawbacks, of course - sometimes it is just fun watching your favorite characters interact and do their thing, even if the plot is filler, but on the plus side, you can get a lot of quality content that way. The recent Netflix Marvel series are a good example for that.
I am not sure if people at CBS are willing to go there with Trek, though. (Or if the fans are ready for that. I think many of us long for another one of those 7 season shows...)
Well we're about to find out.
That said, Star Trek as a miniseries has positives and minuses. If you're telling a tight arc based storyline then of course that's what you want to do. Look at the miniarcs of DS9.
On the other hand, Star Trek is perfect for episodic episodes too. It's part of the advantage of the "Exlpore Strange New Worlds" philosophy. Star Trek should have a miniseries that are arc based, but also stand alone episodes of exploration. Enterprises was EXTREMELY well suited to the exploration since everywhere they went was almost literally some place no man had gone before.
And frankly I want them to go back and give me back the three seasons that they stole. The cast's aging should mean they can time skip to the Romulan war.
=======
There we go. Why that took two posts instead of one is beyond me.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
And frankly I want them to go back and give me back the three seasons that they stole. The cast's aging should mean they can time skip to the Romulan war.
I want them to go back and START the ENT series there... so it might not suck balls so much
The ambassador seems to have been kinda like a prototype for the Galaxy, thus it probably never even got a full production run.
Why would you think that as:
- A "Ambassador Class" was both mentioned (and then debris shown of it's destruction) in TNG's first season episode "Conspiracy"
- We see an actual functioning Ambassador class (the 1701-C U.S.S. Enterprise) in the third season episode "Yesterday's Enterprise"
- We see an Ambassador class ship rendezvousing with the 1701-D at the start of the TNG episode "Data's Day"
- We see an Ambassador class ship flying toward and attacking a Borg Cube in the 'Battle of Wolf 359' sequence in the DS9 pilot episode "The Emissary".
- Commander Riker takes command of an Ambassador class ship in the TNG 5th season episode "Unification II"
My point: Given all the above screen time, what makes you think the Ambassador class ship design didn't get a 'full production run'? There seem to have been many of them still in service in the TNG era's heyday.
Edited to add:
On another topic: http://massivelyop.com/2016/03/25/william-shatner-lends-voice-to-elite-dangerous-addon/
^^^
yes, it's for 'Elite: Dangerous" - but, given it's also voice over; and the end scene and date of the Season 11.5 promo video; I'd say chances are good we may be hearing that Mr. Shatner added his voice to an MMO we're all discussing here; in the not too distant future. (We'll see.)
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
if there is a t6 connie then i expect to see a t6 miranda, nothing short of that. you cant have one without the other, both of them are from the same era even if the miranda is younger than the connie by a few decades, and the miranda is basically a connie saucer with nacelles and a mission pod attached to it. for that matter the excel is t5 and t5u, the centaur is the same, a excel saucer with nacelles and an engineering and torpedo pod attached to the underneath. i cant see any reason what so ever not to see these ships get an update nor for that matter be added as carrier pets as well.
It's called CBS and all there so called glory said "NO".
And frankly I want them to go back and give me back the three seasons that they stole. The cast's aging should mean they can time skip to the Romulan war.
I want them to go back and START the ENT series there... so it might not suck balls so much
I'm one of those who has a glass half full view of Enterprise. It never fully lived up to its promise and concept but there were still some moments of great Star Trek and I enjoyed quite a bit of it, even if I did hurt my eyes rolling them at the entire temporal cold war. And I would never do anything to erase Season 4...except that episode.
The ambassador seems to have been kinda like a prototype for the Galaxy, thus it probably never even got a full production run.
Why would you think that as:
- A "Ambassador Class" was both mentioned (and then debris shown of it's destruction) in TNG's first season episode "Conspiracy"
- We see an actual functioning Ambassador class (the 1701-C U.S.S. Enterprise) in the third season episode "Yesterday's Enterprise"
- We see an Ambassador class ship rendezvousing with the 1701-D at the start of the TNG episode "Data's Day"
- We see an Ambassador class ship flying toward and attacking a Borg Cube in the 'Battle of Wolf 359' sequence in the DS9 pilot episode "The Emissary".
- Commander Riker takes command of an Ambassador class ship in the TNG 5th season episode "Unification II"
My point: Given all the above screen time, what makes you think the Ambassador class ship design didn't get a 'full production run'? There seem to have been many of them still in service in the TNG era's heyday.
Edited to add:
On another topic: http://massivelyop.com/2016/03/25/william-shatner-lends-voice-to-elite-dangerous-addon/
^^^
yes, it's for 'Elite: Dangerous" - but, given it's also voice over; and the end scene and date of the Season 11.5 promo video; I'd say chances are good we may be hearing that Mr. Shatner added his voice to an MMO we're all discussing here; in the not too distant future. (We'll see.)
Fingers crossed. While Shatner may have a high price tag, he could also be happy to pop in and show love to a franchise that he helped build.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
T5/6 Connie? In your dreams. Much more likely to get the Enterprise 1701 as a temporal Admiralty card. Much cheaper to make, less likely to upset CBS/Paramount.
I'll wait to see a blog on Na'khul Red Alerts, but color me skeptical. We're to believe that the poor, oppressed Na'khul have developed the resources for a full scale invasion?
That makes even less sense than the fact that there were no Iconian Red Alerts. Small scale temporal incursions designed for maximum disruption of the timeline I would believe. But I'll take any half-decent rationale and run with it.
agreed T'Ket should be our Iconian RA's since she said she would not let this be the end of her rampage.
The ambassador seems to have been kinda like a prototype for the Galaxy, thus it probably never even got a full production run.
Why would you think that as:
- A "Ambassador Class" was both mentioned (and then debris shown of it's destruction) in TNG's first season episode "Conspiracy"
- We see an actual functioning Ambassador class (the 1701-C U.S.S. Enterprise) in the third season episode "Yesterday's Enterprise"
- We see an Ambassador class ship rendezvousing with the 1701-D at the start of the TNG episode "Data's Day"
- We see an Ambassador class ship flying toward and attacking a Borg Cube in the 'Battle of Wolf 359' sequence in the DS9 pilot episode "The Emissary".
- Commander Riker takes command of an Ambassador class ship in the TNG 5th season episode "Unification II"
My point: Given all the above screen time, what makes you think the Ambassador class ship design didn't get a 'full production run'? There seem to have been many of them still in service in the TNG era's heyday.
Yeah, but they weren't that old. They were newer than Constellations but less numerous.
Right, the T'liss situation, and no T5 or above versions of the Miranda and Oberth are the basis for my reverse-engineered "rule." I could be way off, but it fits the way that things are in the game right now, and have been since launch.
It was Picard who served on the Constellation class Stargazer. Riker served on the Oberth class Pegasus.
As far as how old the Constellation is, they never told us, but it clearly uses Constitution refit body parts. It could have been in production as early as the refit project, or any time thereafter, but is clearly a relic by TNG. My personal suspicion was that it was put into production around ST VI to supplement the Excelsiors and Mirandas. Constitution refit style parts would have still been necessary for the Miranda, so there would have been a steady supply.
as i recall by the time of TNG the hathaway was at least 80 years old and most had been retired from active service. that could put the origin of the constellation around in and around the 2280's. while yes, using parts for the connie refit, a lot of it is its own ship.
however, if starfleet thought the const is as useful as the miranda or the excelsior class ship as old workhorses of the federation fleet, it would likely still be in service, but it is not. so clearly the const had a finite amount of potential before it was scrapped. it clearly had more potential than the connie or the ambassador class, both these classes didnt last much beyond 20-40 years at most. the excelsior and miranda classes have been operating solidly since 2280's into 2410, thats almost 130 years of service, by far the longest serving classes the federation has ever had.
I think the break is that the Constitution class wasn't the workhorse. It was the spearhead, the flagship class. By 2285 even the Enterprise herself was a cadet training ship. The Enterprise-A was likely the youngest ship of the class, the last of her kind to be commissioned. There are three ways of looking at it. Either they had just built her, just upgraded her, or they brought her out of mothballs so they could give her to Kirk and honor the first 1701. Scotty's "this new ship must've been put together by monkeys" lamentation would indicate the former, so that was the last Constitution class, likely built to fill a space in the fleet, or considering how new all the gear was, likely testing the Constitution class' viability for continued upgrade. So they build her brand spanking new with all the latest bells and whistles and see what she can do. But this is at the same time that the Excelsior is completing her trial runs. So they have the Enterprise-A over here and the Constitution over here for six years and they compare them side by side. The Enterprise with THE crew on a new five year mission after the Sha Ka Ree incident, then you have Sulu in command of the Excelsior for three years, you line up the stats. And they decide to retire the Enterprise-A at only eight years old.
There's also the matter of legacy. I think that for sentimental value there are a lot of people who wouldn't want to see the Constitution THE Constitution the ship class that had carried Starfleet on her back for almost 50 years 2245-2283 (extended to 2293) reduced to a cargo ship or a patrol ship. Better to put her out to pasture. In the illustrious words of Bishop, "If I can't be top of the line I'd rather not be anything."
I liken it to the F-14 Tomcat, a pure interceptor fighter that was replaced by a contemporary in the F-18 and rather than fall into a lighter role, she was honorably retired. Of course the Tomcat was the largest plane on the deck (I speak from experience) and had LOTS of unique parts and equipment and weapons.
the connie was the sole ship class operating in the UFP at this time, 12 of them, the enterprise was one of these twelve. as a flagship, it should have the best of everything in a large hull to look intimidating to its foes and enough power to seriously destroy anything in its path.
the connie had problems through its 5 year voyager, it received a refit in order to bring the connie up to the standards of the time, however the ship class was haplessly out of its depth before long it got a bigger refit and with the excel being launched, in effect now the new flagship due its vastly upgraded strength as a ship, the connie was relegated to either the scrapheap or re-designated as a heavy cruiser while the miranda played the role of a cruiser. it was scrapped as the class clearly couldnt keep up any longer and starfleet were not willing to commit resources on upgrading and building new connies. it also may of had something to do with its maximum warp being warp 8.
of course more and more ship designs started coming out between 2280 and 2360's a few ship designs didnt live up to expectation like the ambassador class, there were problems in its design, the galaxy class was the ship the federation were trying to create that the ambassador class never was. but it was later discovered that the galaxy class had some vulnerabilities in its own design. the sovvie being put into prototyping as the dominion war was about the start up and through the war the new flagship of the fleet.
the ship line for the connie was effectively scrapped when the enterprise was decommissioned. however even that latest refit would of lasted for a decade anyway, so one way or the other it was out of the picture.
i can not answer towards the tomcat, however the tomcat is still in operation by the iranians mostly ironically. so not yet retired, however they do not have many to work with anymore. off topic aside.
if there is a t6 connie then i expect to see a t6 miranda, nothing short of that. you cant have one without the other, both of them are from the same era even if the miranda is younger than the connie by a few decades, and the miranda is basically a connie saucer with nacelles and a mission pod attached to it. for that matter the excel is t5 and t5u, the centaur is the same, a excel saucer with nacelles and an engineering and torpedo pod attached to the underneath. i cant see any reason what so ever not to see these ships get an update nor for that matter be added as carrier pets as well.
It's called CBS and all there so called glory said "NO".
"IF". that one word makes a whole lot of difference. no need to get ahead of yourself.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Right, the T'liss situation, and no T5 or above versions of the Miranda and Oberth are the basis for my reverse-engineered "rule." I could be way off, but it fits the way that things are in the game right now, and have been since launch.
It was Picard who served on the Constellation class Stargazer. Riker served on the Oberth class Pegasus.
As far as how old the Constellation is, they never told us, but it clearly uses Constitution refit body parts. It could have been in production as early as the refit project, or any time thereafter, but is clearly a relic by TNG. My personal suspicion was that it was put into production around ST VI to supplement the Excelsiors and Mirandas. Constitution refit style parts would have still been necessary for the Miranda, so there would have been a steady supply.
as i recall by the time of TNG the hathaway was at least 80 years old and most had been retired from active service. that could put the origin of the constellation around in and around the 2280's. while yes, using parts for the connie refit, a lot of it is its own ship.
however, if starfleet thought the const is as useful as the miranda or the excelsior class ship as old workhorses of the federation fleet, it would likely still be in service, but it is not. so clearly the const had a finite amount of potential before it was scrapped. it clearly had more potential than the connie or the ambassador class, both these classes didnt last much beyond 20-40 years at most. the excelsior and miranda classes have been operating solidly since 2280's into 2410, thats almost 130 years of service, by far the longest serving classes the federation has ever had.
I think the break is that the Constitution class wasn't the workhorse. It was the spearhead, the flagship class. By 2285 even the Enterprise herself was a cadet training ship. The Enterprise-A was likely the youngest ship of the class, the last of her kind to be commissioned. There are three ways of looking at it. Either they had just built her, just upgraded her, or they brought her out of mothballs so they could give her to Kirk and honor the first 1701. Scotty's "this new ship must've been put together by monkeys" lamentation would indicate the former, so that was the last Constitution class, likely built to fill a space in the fleet, or considering how new all the gear was, likely testing the Constitution class' viability for continued upgrade. So they build her brand spanking new with all the latest bells and whistles and see what she can do. But this is at the same time that the Excelsior is completing her trial runs. So they have the Enterprise-A over here and the Constitution over here for six years and they compare them side by side. The Enterprise with THE crew on a new five year mission after the Sha Ka Ree incident, then you have Sulu in command of the Excelsior for three years, you line up the stats. And they decide to retire the Enterprise-A at only eight years old.
There's also the matter of legacy. I think that for sentimental value there are a lot of people who wouldn't want to see the Constitution THE Constitution the ship class that had carried Starfleet on her back for almost 50 years 2245-2283 (extended to 2293) reduced to a cargo ship or a patrol ship. Better to put her out to pasture. In the illustrious words of Bishop, "If I can't be top of the line I'd rather not be anything."
I liken it to the F-14 Tomcat, a pure interceptor fighter that was replaced by a contemporary in the F-18 and rather than fall into a lighter role, she was honorably retired. Of course the Tomcat was the largest plane on the deck (I speak from experience) and had LOTS of unique parts and equipment and weapons.
the connie was the sole ship class operating in the UFP at this time, 12 of them, the enterprise was one of these twelve. as a flagship, it should have the best of everything in a large hull to look intimidating to its foes and enough power to seriously destroy anything in its path.
the connie had problems through its 5 year voyager, it received a refit in order to bring the connie up to the standards of the time, however the ship class was haplessly out of its depth before long it got a bigger refit and with the excel being launched, in effect now the new flagship due its vastly upgraded strength as a ship, the connie was relegated to either the scrapheap or re-designated as a heavy cruiser while the miranda played the role of a cruiser. it was scrapped as the class clearly couldnt keep up any longer and starfleet were not willing to commit resources on upgrading and building new connies. it also may of had something to do with its maximum warp being warp 8.
of course more and more ship designs started coming out between 2280 and 2360's a few ship designs didnt live up to expectation like the ambassador class, there were problems in its design, the galaxy class was the ship the federation were trying to create that the ambassador class never was. but it was later discovered that the galaxy class had some vulnerabilities in its own design. the sovvie being put into prototyping as the dominion war was about the start up and through the war the new flagship of the fleet.
the ship line for the connie was effectively scrapped when the enterprise was decommissioned. however even that latest refit would of lasted for a decade anyway, so one way or the other it was out of the picture.
i can not answer towards the tomcat, however the tomcat is still in operation by the iranians mostly ironically. so not yet retired, however they do not have many to work with anymore. off topic aside.
if there is a t6 connie then i expect to see a t6 miranda, nothing short of that. you cant have one without the other, both of them are from the same era even if the miranda is younger than the connie by a few decades, and the miranda is basically a connie saucer with nacelles and a mission pod attached to it. for that matter the excel is t5 and t5u, the centaur is the same, a excel saucer with nacelles and an engineering and torpedo pod attached to the underneath. i cant see any reason what so ever not to see these ships get an update nor for that matter be added as carrier pets as well.
It's called CBS and all there so called glory said "NO".
"IF". that one word makes a whole lot of difference. no need to get ahead of yourself.
Lol. You think all of Starfleet in TOS consisted of just the 12 Constitution class ships?
So Miranda top speed is warp 9.2 for 12 hours, Constitution refit warp 9 in emergencies. Both max at 8.
Not all Constitutions were scrapped or phased out. There was one at Wolf 359.
Once again.. Mirandas and Centaurs are fully capable long duration Starships with sizable crews. They don't need a carrier.
And I do agree...If there is a higher tier Constitution, Miranda should get a bump also. Just because CBS said no doesn't mean they can change their minds 6 years later.
Right, the T'liss situation, and no T5 or above versions of the Miranda and Oberth are the basis for my reverse-engineered "rule." I could be way off, but it fits the way that things are in the game right now, and have been since launch.
It was Picard who served on the Constellation class Stargazer. Riker served on the Oberth class Pegasus.
As far as how old the Constellation is, they never told us, but it clearly uses Constitution refit body parts. It could have been in production as early as the refit project, or any time thereafter, but is clearly a relic by TNG. My personal suspicion was that it was put into production around ST VI to supplement the Excelsiors and Mirandas. Constitution refit style parts would have still been necessary for the Miranda, so there would have been a steady supply.
as i recall by the time of TNG the hathaway was at least 80 years old and most had been retired from active service. that could put the origin of the constellation around in and around the 2280's. while yes, using parts for the connie refit, a lot of it is its own ship.
however, if starfleet thought the const is as useful as the miranda or the excelsior class ship as old workhorses of the federation fleet, it would likely still be in service, but it is not. so clearly the const had a finite amount of potential before it was scrapped. it clearly had more potential than the connie or the ambassador class, both these classes didnt last much beyond 20-40 years at most. the excelsior and miranda classes have been operating solidly since 2280's into 2410, thats almost 130 years of service, by far the longest serving classes the federation has ever had.
I think the break is that the Constitution class wasn't the workhorse. It was the spearhead, the flagship class. By 2285 even the Enterprise herself was a cadet training ship. The Enterprise-A was likely the youngest ship of the class, the last of her kind to be commissioned. There are three ways of looking at it. Either they had just built her, just upgraded her, or they brought her out of mothballs so they could give her to Kirk and honor the first 1701. Scotty's "this new ship must've been put together by monkeys" lamentation would indicate the former, so that was the last Constitution class, likely built to fill a space in the fleet, or considering how new all the gear was, likely testing the Constitution class' viability for continued upgrade. So they build her brand spanking new with all the latest bells and whistles and see what she can do. But this is at the same time that the Excelsior is completing her trial runs. So they have the Enterprise-A over here and the Constitution over here for six years and they compare them side by side. The Enterprise with THE crew on a new five year mission after the Sha Ka Ree incident, then you have Sulu in command of the Excelsior for three years, you line up the stats. And they decide to retire the Enterprise-A at only eight years old.
There's also the matter of legacy. I think that for sentimental value there are a lot of people who wouldn't want to see the Constitution THE Constitution the ship class that had carried Starfleet on her back for almost 50 years 2245-2283 (extended to 2293) reduced to a cargo ship or a patrol ship. Better to put her out to pasture. In the illustrious words of Bishop, "If I can't be top of the line I'd rather not be anything."
I liken it to the F-14 Tomcat, a pure interceptor fighter that was replaced by a contemporary in the F-18 and rather than fall into a lighter role, she was honorably retired. Of course the Tomcat was the largest plane on the deck (I speak from experience) and had LOTS of unique parts and equipment and weapons.
the connie was the sole ship class operating in the UFP at this time, 12 of them, the enterprise was one of these twelve. as a flagship, it should have the best of everything in a large hull to look intimidating to its foes and enough power to seriously destroy anything in its path.
I don't buy that. That wasn't even true of Starfleet in the time of the NX class, and it certainly wouldn't be in the time of the Federation when the members were still producing starships. Twelve starships is completely insufficient to both patrol the territory of the Federation (at least 32 member worlds at the time of the five year mission) and explore unknown space. It's just too much ground to cover.
There's no sane way the Constitution was the only operating ship class. It was the lead top of the line exploration ship. And because of that it was also the front line defense vessel. The fastest, the hardest hitting, and the toughest. The ship of the line. And enough power to defend itself against anything in its path.
the connie had problems through its 5 year voyager, it received a refit in order to bring the connie up to the standards of the time, however the ship class was haplessly out of its depth before long it got a bigger refit and with the excel being launched, in effect now the new flagship due its vastly upgraded strength as a ship, the connie was relegated to either the scrapheap or re-designated as a heavy cruiser while the miranda played the role of a cruiser. it was scrapped as the class clearly couldnt keep up any longer and starfleet were not willing to commit resources on upgrading and building new connies. it also may of had something to do with its maximum warp being warp 8.
That's not what was shown. The Constitution class consistently outperformed it's specifications on the five year mission, primarily because she was a well built ship and Scotty was a mad genius.
You're compressing it a bit there. The Constitution was first commissioned in 2245, the five year mission was 2265, the Constitution refit was 2270-2272, the Excelsior and Hathaway were commissioned in 2285. The Enterprise-A was retired in 2293.
So the Constitution was top of the line for 25 years, and was then upgrade to continue being top of the line for another 10 years at least. By 2285, the Wrath of Khan, the Enterprise was a cadet training ship and NOT the Federation flagship. The Constitution was a tried and tested starship class by the time Kirk got the Enterprise and Scotty pushed her to her limits. The Constitution was ALWAYS designated as a Heavy Cruiser even though the Klingons called that a Battlecruiser. That has more to do with Starfleet's unwillingness to call their vessels warships. The top speed of the Refit Constitution was never established, I've actually heard Warp 12 as her absolute max (which is warp 9.356 on the TNG scale) though Warp 8 (warp 6.5 TNG) always seemed more reasonable.
And I believe I said, that she had become completely obsolete and thus retired.
of course more and more ship designs started coming out between 2280 and 2360's a few ship designs didnt live up to expectation like the ambassador class, there were problems in its design, the galaxy class was the ship the federation were trying to create that the ambassador class never was. but it was later discovered that the galaxy class had some vulnerabilities in its own design. the sovvie being put into prototyping as the dominion war was about the start up and through the war the new flagship of the fleet.
the ship line for the connie was effectively scrapped when the enterprise was decommissioned. however even that latest refit would of lasted for a decade anyway, so one way or the other it was out of the picture.
No. The Galaxy class didn't have that many vulnerabilities, the fact is that they needed something even more powerful against the Borg, so the Sovereign was put out with all the latest technology. The Galaxy however was put into mass production and was a sledgehammer for Starfleet during the Dominion War being the premiere battleship, not taking any losses that we saw.
i can not answer towards the tomcat, however the tomcat is still in operation by the iranians mostly ironically. so not yet retired, however they do not have many to work with anymore. off topic aside.
I speak with a authority as a veteran of the United States Navy around the time period where they were being cycled out. The F-14 is retired in the United States military. The Iranians haven't retired them because they don't have anything to replace them with, their military aerospace industry is virtually non existent.
if there is a t6 connie then i expect to see a t6 miranda, nothing short of that. you cant have one without the other, both of them are from the same era even if the miranda is younger than the connie by a few decades, and the miranda is basically a connie saucer with nacelles and a mission pod attached to it. for that matter the excel is t5 and t5u, the centaur is the same, a excel saucer with nacelles and an engineering and torpedo pod attached to the underneath. i cant see any reason what so ever not to see these ships get an update nor for that matter be added as carrier pets as well.
It's called CBS and all there so called glory said "NO".
"IF". that one word makes a whole lot of difference. no need to get ahead of yourself.
But there has never been an "if" on this issue, it has always been an absolute no.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Not all Constitutions were scrapped or phased out. There was one at Wolf 359.
Wolf 359 was an absolute crisis situation. Starfleet pulled everything they had in and near the Sol system out to try and stop that cube, including a Constitution class that was either in mothballs or a museum/tour ship.
We know that during times of peaceful exploration Starfleet barely keeps any starships near Sol, remember the V'Ger incident?
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Not all Constitutions were scrapped or phased out. There was one at Wolf 359.
Wolf 359 was an absolute crisis situation. Starfleet pulled everything they had in and near the Sol system out to try and stop that cube, including a Constitution class that was either in mothballs or a museum/tour ship.
We know that during times of peaceful exploration Starfleet barely keeps any starships near Sol, remember the V'Ger incident?
We don't know that. Could have been a training ship or still in service in a limited role
Comments
Yeah, that would be textbook taking too long to get to your punch line. They had that awesome reveal planned from before episode one and just wouldn't commit. Then the axe fell. Tragic.
I'd say they should aim for the TOS Remastered edition.
Man when I saw her in my Ships of the Line calendar. Broke my heart.
Your close quote the /quote somehow got cut off.
Precisely. The devs have always said that CBS has vetoed the TRIBBLE out of an endgame Constitution class. In fact I read once that the Constitution being in there at tier 2 was basically the devs slipping it in without permission and CBS let it ride.
*slides over a shot of Jack*
Yeah.
Vic...play us another one.
I gotta say though, I do appreciate that they had it planned out. All because of a damn executive who didn't believe in Star Trek. A Travesty.
As for the Constellation, it's a TNG ship. It was considered obsolete in TNG, but Picard(or was it Riker?) served on one during his career, so it wasn't that obsolete.
So, yeah, it seems that the primary guiding principle here has nothing to do with anything in-universe, but is rather an out-of-universe principle of marketing.
My character Tsin'xing
It was Picard who served on the Constellation class Stargazer. Riker served on the Oberth class Pegasus.
As far as how old the Constellation is, they never told us, but it clearly uses Constitution refit body parts. It could have been in production as early as the refit project, or any time thereafter, but is clearly a relic by TNG. My personal suspicion was that it was put into production around ST VI to supplement the Excelsiors and Mirandas. Constitution refit style parts would have still been necessary for the Miranda, so there would have been a steady supply.
as i recall by the time of TNG the hathaway was at least 80 years old and most had been retired from active service. that could put the origin of the constellation around in and around the 2280's. while yes, using parts for the connie refit, a lot of it is its own ship.
however, if starfleet thought the const is as useful as the miranda or the excelsior class ship as old workhorses of the federation fleet, it would likely still be in service, but it is not. so clearly the const had a finite amount of potential before it was scrapped. it clearly had more potential than the connie or the ambassador class, both these classes didnt last much beyond 20-40 years at most. the excelsior and miranda classes have been operating solidly since 2280's into 2410, thats almost 130 years of service, by far the longest serving classes the federation has ever had.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
The Constellation's role as a filler between the Excelsior and Miranda, admittedly conjecture on my part, had obviously ended by the 2360s. probably due to the various refits to the Miranda and Excelsior between the TMP and TNG eras. The Ambassador probably took over the heavier duties of the Excelsior for a time when it was new, though it doesn't appear to have been a large production run, which, along with the above-mentioned refits to the Excelsior and Miranda, allowed those classes to phase out the Constellation.
None of this matters, of course, it's just fun to try and piece together a reasonable time frame for these ships, rather than the boring real world reasons for the lack of Constellations and Ambassadors in early TNG, which were that they were retcons, inserted after the fact as having been around decades prior.
I think that's a problem you have when you think you need to stretch your material over 7 seasons.
Thankfully, some series are now developed these days that only need to fill 10 episodes a season or so and can fill it with all the good ideas and can abandon the filler stuff. It's not without drawbacks, of course - sometimes it is just fun watching your favorite characters interact and do their thing, even if the plot is filler, but on the plus side, you can get a lot of quality content that way. The recent Netflix Marvel series are a good example for that.
I am not sure if people at CBS are willing to go there with Trek, though. (Or if the fans are ready for that. I think many of us long for another one of those 7 season shows...)
My reasoning behind this is: We were shown events that we've played, or witnessed through out various missions, (through that temporal window thing), as though they have been monitoring us, and the timeline.
I'm willing to bet we will have to defend Kirk's Enterprise or something, maybe, something similar to that mission with Tasha and the Enterprise C, Ambassador class.
I don't think there's a T6 connie tho. I would love to fly a T6 Exeter or Excalibur class, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
I only wish we could earn the "Temporal Investigations" agent title for completing either an upcoming mission, or after defeating so many Na'kuhl or something.
My character Tsin'xing
The Constellation class is actually quite a bit original. Even the nacelles are Constitution refit style, but not quite the same. Also I think the four nacelle design was clearly a new experimental configuration.
I think it should be noted that the Constellation is not the Excelsior's Miranda. That would be the Centaur class. Same Saucer, same nacelles.
Starfleet tries to fill all roles so the Constellation may have had a position we're not clear on. I find it interesting that it was named after the Constellation, which was a very important if tragic ship.
I think the break is that the Constitution class wasn't the workhorse. It was the spearhead, the flagship class. By 2285 even the Enterprise herself was a cadet training ship. The Enterprise-A was likely the youngest ship of the class, the last of her kind to be commissioned. There are three ways of looking at it. Either they had just built her, just upgraded her, or they brought her out of mothballs so they could give her to Kirk and honor the first 1701. Scotty's "this new ship must've been put together by monkeys" lamentation would indicate the former, so that was the last Constitution class, likely built to fill a space in the fleet, or considering how new all the gear was, likely testing the Constitution class' viability for continued upgrade. So they build her brand spanking new with all the latest bells and whistles and see what she can do. But this is at the same time that the Excelsior is completing her trial runs. So they have the Enterprise-A over here and the Constitution over here for six years and they compare them side by side. The Enterprise with THE crew on a new five year mission after the Sha Ka Ree incident, then you have Sulu in command of the Excelsior for three years, you line up the stats. And they decide to retire the Enterprise-A at only eight years old.
There's also the matter of legacy. I think that for sentimental value there are a lot of people who wouldn't want to see the Constitution THE Constitution the ship class that had carried Starfleet on her back for almost 50 years 2245-2283 (extended to 2293) reduced to a cargo ship or a patrol ship. Better to put her out to pasture. In the illustrious words of Bishop, "If I can't be top of the line I'd rather not be anything."
I liken it to the F-14 Tomcat, a pure interceptor fighter that was replaced by a contemporary in the F-18 and rather than fall into a lighter role, she was honorably retired. Of course the Tomcat was the largest plane on the deck (I speak from experience) and had LOTS of unique parts and equipment and weapons.
Not so fast, the Ambassador was not a retcon, the basic form was established as soon as we walked into the conference lounge of the Enterprise-D, there was always an Ambassador, it's just that finding money to build one especially early on was an issue. Gene Roddenberry had to purposefully write a scene in engineering for the pilot otherwise the set might not have ever been built.
The Constellation is an interesting point about what I wrote earlier about the Constitution never appearing in TNG era Star Trek as a full fledged ship in the present. The Stargazer and the Hathaway were both instances where they were going to make the guest ship a Constitution class. The idea being that Picard served on a Constitution and then a Galaxy vs Constitution class fight.
The Ambassador succeeded the Excelsior as the ship of the line, the flagship, the head starship, as it was then succeeded by the Galaxy.
All the supplementary material generally paints the picture that the Ambassador was never the SUPER success that the Constitution and Excelsior before her were as lead explorer starships and the fact that she was replaced early in her lifespan by the Galaxy seems to support that.
I think the Excelsior was so successful that she built up a LOT of good will, and generally kept up with performance after the Ambassador and Galaxy took over. Lots of Admirals cruised around in Excelsiors, either because they were just that good, or sentimental value. I have the sense that if it had been am Excelsior class at Veridian III the Duras sisters would've instead of saying, "THAT is a Galaxy class starship, we're no match for them!" they would've said, "You want us to take down an Excelsior class starship? I'd like to get out of here in one piece you know." Not the absolute we're gonna get crushed, but we're not gonna be pretty after this fight.
Well we're about to find out.
That said, Star Trek as a miniseries has positives and minuses. If you're telling a tight arc based storyline then of course that's what you want to do. Look at the miniarcs of DS9.
On the other hand, Star Trek is perfect for episodic episodes too. It's part of the advantage of the "Exlpore Strange New Worlds" philosophy. Star Trek should have a miniseries that are arc based, but also stand alone episodes of exploration. Enterprises was EXTREMELY well suited to the exploration since everywhere they went was almost literally some place no man had gone before.
And frankly I want them to go back and give me back the three seasons that they stole. The cast's aging should mean they can time skip to the Romulan war.
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There we go. Why that took two posts instead of one is beyond me.
I want them to go back and START the ENT series there... so it might not suck balls so much
Why would you think that as:
- A "Ambassador Class" was both mentioned (and then debris shown of it's destruction) in TNG's first season episode "Conspiracy"
- We see an actual functioning Ambassador class (the 1701-C U.S.S. Enterprise) in the third season episode "Yesterday's Enterprise"
- We see an Ambassador class ship rendezvousing with the 1701-D at the start of the TNG episode "Data's Day"
- We see an Ambassador class ship flying toward and attacking a Borg Cube in the 'Battle of Wolf 359' sequence in the DS9 pilot episode "The Emissary".
- Commander Riker takes command of an Ambassador class ship in the TNG 5th season episode "Unification II"
My point: Given all the above screen time, what makes you think the Ambassador class ship design didn't get a 'full production run'? There seem to have been many of them still in service in the TNG era's heyday.
Edited to add:
On another topic:
http://massivelyop.com/2016/03/25/william-shatner-lends-voice-to-elite-dangerous-addon/
^^^
yes, it's for 'Elite: Dangerous" - but, given it's also voice over; and the end scene and date of the Season 11.5 promo video; I'd say chances are good we may be hearing that Mr. Shatner added his voice to an MMO we're all discussing here; in the not too distant future. (We'll see.)
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
that's in April not May.
It's called CBS and all there so called glory said "NO".
You can "expect" anything you want, but that really has nothing to do with what actually happens.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I'm one of those who has a glass half full view of Enterprise. It never fully lived up to its promise and concept but there were still some moments of great Star Trek and I enjoyed quite a bit of it, even if I did hurt my eyes rolling them at the entire temporal cold war. And I would never do anything to erase Season 4...except that episode.
Fingers crossed. While Shatner may have a high price tag, he could also be happy to pop in and show love to a franchise that he helped build.
agreed T'Ket should be our Iconian RA's since she said she would not let this be the end of her rampage.
2: it usually has to do with weblinks in the post.
My character Tsin'xing
the connie was the sole ship class operating in the UFP at this time, 12 of them, the enterprise was one of these twelve. as a flagship, it should have the best of everything in a large hull to look intimidating to its foes and enough power to seriously destroy anything in its path.
the connie had problems through its 5 year voyager, it received a refit in order to bring the connie up to the standards of the time, however the ship class was haplessly out of its depth before long it got a bigger refit and with the excel being launched, in effect now the new flagship due its vastly upgraded strength as a ship, the connie was relegated to either the scrapheap or re-designated as a heavy cruiser while the miranda played the role of a cruiser. it was scrapped as the class clearly couldnt keep up any longer and starfleet were not willing to commit resources on upgrading and building new connies. it also may of had something to do with its maximum warp being warp 8.
of course more and more ship designs started coming out between 2280 and 2360's a few ship designs didnt live up to expectation like the ambassador class, there were problems in its design, the galaxy class was the ship the federation were trying to create that the ambassador class never was. but it was later discovered that the galaxy class had some vulnerabilities in its own design. the sovvie being put into prototyping as the dominion war was about the start up and through the war the new flagship of the fleet.
the ship line for the connie was effectively scrapped when the enterprise was decommissioned. however even that latest refit would of lasted for a decade anyway, so one way or the other it was out of the picture.
i can not answer towards the tomcat, however the tomcat is still in operation by the iranians mostly ironically. so not yet retired, however they do not have many to work with anymore. off topic aside.
"IF". that one word makes a whole lot of difference. no need to get ahead of yourself.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Lol. You think all of Starfleet in TOS consisted of just the 12 Constitution class ships?
So Miranda top speed is warp 9.2 for 12 hours, Constitution refit warp 9 in emergencies. Both max at 8.
Not all Constitutions were scrapped or phased out. There was one at Wolf 359.
Once again.. Mirandas and Centaurs are fully capable long duration Starships with sizable crews. They don't need a carrier.
And I do agree...If there is a higher tier Constitution, Miranda should get a bump also. Just because CBS said no doesn't mean they can change their minds 6 years later.
original join date 2010
Member: Team Trekyards. Visit Trekyards today!
There's no sane way the Constitution was the only operating ship class. It was the lead top of the line exploration ship. And because of that it was also the front line defense vessel. The fastest, the hardest hitting, and the toughest. The ship of the line. And enough power to defend itself against anything in its path.
That's not what was shown. The Constitution class consistently outperformed it's specifications on the five year mission, primarily because she was a well built ship and Scotty was a mad genius.
You're compressing it a bit there. The Constitution was first commissioned in 2245, the five year mission was 2265, the Constitution refit was 2270-2272, the Excelsior and Hathaway were commissioned in 2285. The Enterprise-A was retired in 2293.
So the Constitution was top of the line for 25 years, and was then upgrade to continue being top of the line for another 10 years at least. By 2285, the Wrath of Khan, the Enterprise was a cadet training ship and NOT the Federation flagship. The Constitution was a tried and tested starship class by the time Kirk got the Enterprise and Scotty pushed her to her limits. The Constitution was ALWAYS designated as a Heavy Cruiser even though the Klingons called that a Battlecruiser. That has more to do with Starfleet's unwillingness to call their vessels warships. The top speed of the Refit Constitution was never established, I've actually heard Warp 12 as her absolute max (which is warp 9.356 on the TNG scale) though Warp 8 (warp 6.5 TNG) always seemed more reasonable.
And I believe I said, that she had become completely obsolete and thus retired.
No. The Galaxy class didn't have that many vulnerabilities, the fact is that they needed something even more powerful against the Borg, so the Sovereign was put out with all the latest technology. The Galaxy however was put into mass production and was a sledgehammer for Starfleet during the Dominion War being the premiere battleship, not taking any losses that we saw.
I speak with a authority as a veteran of the United States Navy around the time period where they were being cycled out. The F-14 is retired in the United States military. The Iranians haven't retired them because they don't have anything to replace them with, their military aerospace industry is virtually non existent.
But there has never been an "if" on this issue, it has always been an absolute no.
Wolf 359 was an absolute crisis situation. Starfleet pulled everything they had in and near the Sol system out to try and stop that cube, including a Constitution class that was either in mothballs or a museum/tour ship.
We know that during times of peaceful exploration Starfleet barely keeps any starships near Sol, remember the V'Ger incident?
We don't know that. Could have been a training ship or still in service in a limited role
original join date 2010
Member: Team Trekyards. Visit Trekyards today!