But there has never been an "if" on this issue, it has always been an absolute no.
Not exactly:
Dstahl: Yes. The Ambassador class is coming in 2013. CBS is still pretty adamant about the Old Connie not being an end game ship, but you never know what can happen as time rolls by.
He definitely could have said it's *never* going to happen, but he specifically chose to make that statement for some reason.
Not all Constitutions were scrapped or phased out. There was one at Wolf 359.
Wolf 359 was an absolute crisis situation. Starfleet pulled everything they had in and near the Sol system out to try and stop that cube, including a Constitution class that was either in mothballs or a museum/tour ship.
We know that during times of peaceful exploration Starfleet barely keeps any starships near Sol, remember the V'Ger incident?
We don't know that. Could have been a training ship or still in service in a limited role
Also, there's no reason to believe it was fully operational, we don't see it until AFTER the Borg turn it to scrap.
Right, the T'liss situation, and no T5 or above versions of the Miranda and Oberth are the basis for my reverse-engineered "rule." I could be way off, but it fits the way that things are in the game right now, and have been since launch.
It was Picard who served on the Constellation class Stargazer. Riker served on the Oberth class Pegasus.
As far as how old the Constellation is, they never told us, but it clearly uses Constitution refit body parts. It could have been in production as early as the refit project, or any time thereafter, but is clearly a relic by TNG. My personal suspicion was that it was put into production around ST VI to supplement the Excelsiors and Mirandas. Constitution refit style parts would have still been necessary for the Miranda, so there would have been a steady supply.
as i recall by the time of TNG the hathaway was at least 80 years old and most had been retired from active service. that could put the origin of the constellation around in and around the 2280's. while yes, using parts for the connie refit, a lot of it is its own ship.
however, if starfleet thought the const is as useful as the miranda or the excelsior class ship as old workhorses of the federation fleet, it would likely still be in service, but it is not. so clearly the const had a finite amount of potential before it was scrapped. it clearly had more potential than the connie or the ambassador class, both these classes didnt last much beyond 20-40 years at most. the excelsior and miranda classes have been operating solidly since 2280's into 2410, thats almost 130 years of service, by far the longest serving classes the federation has ever had.
I think the break is that the Constitution class wasn't the workhorse. It was the spearhead, the flagship class. By 2285 even the Enterprise herself was a cadet training ship. The Enterprise-A was likely the youngest ship of the class, the last of her kind to be commissioned. There are three ways of looking at it. Either they had just built her, just upgraded her, or they brought her out of mothballs so they could give her to Kirk and honor the first 1701. Scotty's "this new ship must've been put together by monkeys" lamentation would indicate the former, so that was the last Constitution class, likely built to fill a space in the fleet, or considering how new all the gear was, likely testing the Constitution class' viability for continued upgrade. So they build her brand spanking new with all the latest bells and whistles and see what she can do. But this is at the same time that the Excelsior is completing her trial runs. So they have the Enterprise-A over here and the Constitution over here for six years and they compare them side by side. The Enterprise with THE crew on a new five year mission after the Sha Ka Ree incident, then you have Sulu in command of the Excelsior for three years, you line up the stats. And they decide to retire the Enterprise-A at only eight years old.
There's also the matter of legacy. I think that for sentimental value there are a lot of people who wouldn't want to see the Constitution THE Constitution the ship class that had carried Starfleet on her back for almost 50 years 2245-2283 (extended to 2293) reduced to a cargo ship or a patrol ship. Better to put her out to pasture. In the illustrious words of Bishop, "If I can't be top of the line I'd rather not be anything."
I liken it to the F-14 Tomcat, a pure interceptor fighter that was replaced by a contemporary in the F-18 and rather than fall into a lighter role, she was honorably retired. Of course the Tomcat was the largest plane on the deck (I speak from experience) and had LOTS of unique parts and equipment and weapons.
the connie was the sole ship class operating in the UFP at this time, 12 of them, the enterprise was one of these twelve. as a flagship, it should have the best of everything in a large hull to look intimidating to its foes and enough power to seriously destroy anything in its path.
I don't buy that. That wasn't even true of Starfleet in the time of the NX class, and it certainly wouldn't be in the time of the Federation when the members were still producing starships. Twelve starships is completely insufficient to both patrol the territory of the Federation (at least 32 member worlds at the time of the five year mission) and explore unknown space. It's just too much ground to cover.
There's no sane way the Constitution was the only operating ship class. It was the lead top of the line exploration ship. And because of that it was also the front line defense vessel. The fastest, the hardest hitting, and the toughest. The ship of the line. And enough power to defend itself against anything in its path.
the connie had problems through its 5 year voyager, it received a refit in order to bring the connie up to the standards of the time, however the ship class was haplessly out of its depth before long it got a bigger refit and with the excel being launched, in effect now the new flagship due its vastly upgraded strength as a ship, the connie was relegated to either the scrapheap or re-designated as a heavy cruiser while the miranda played the role of a cruiser. it was scrapped as the class clearly couldnt keep up any longer and starfleet were not willing to commit resources on upgrading and building new connies. it also may of had something to do with its maximum warp being warp 8.
That's not what was shown. The Constitution class consistently outperformed it's specifications on the five year mission, primarily because she was a well built ship and Scotty was a mad genius.
You're compressing it a bit there. The Constitution was first commissioned in 2245, the five year mission was 2265, the Constitution refit was 2270-2272, the Excelsior and Hathaway were commissioned in 2285. The Enterprise-A was retired in 2293.
So the Constitution was top of the line for 25 years, and was then upgrade to continue being top of the line for another 10 years at least. By 2285, the Wrath of Khan, the Enterprise was a cadet training ship and NOT the Federation flagship. The Constitution was a tried and tested starship class by the time Kirk got the Enterprise and Scotty pushed her to her limits. The Constitution was ALWAYS designated as a Heavy Cruiser even though the Klingons called that a Battlecruiser. That has more to do with Starfleet's unwillingness to call their vessels warships. The top speed of the Refit Constitution was never established, I've actually heard Warp 12 as her absolute max (which is warp 9.356 on the TNG scale) though Warp 8 (warp 6.5 TNG) always seemed more reasonable.
And I believe I said, that she had become completely obsolete and thus retired.
of course more and more ship designs started coming out between 2280 and 2360's a few ship designs didnt live up to expectation like the ambassador class, there were problems in its design, the galaxy class was the ship the federation were trying to create that the ambassador class never was. but it was later discovered that the galaxy class had some vulnerabilities in its own design. the sovvie being put into prototyping as the dominion war was about the start up and through the war the new flagship of the fleet.
the ship line for the connie was effectively scrapped when the enterprise was decommissioned. however even that latest refit would of lasted for a decade anyway, so one way or the other it was out of the picture.
No. The Galaxy class didn't have that many vulnerabilities, the fact is that they needed something even more powerful against the Borg, so the Sovereign was put out with all the latest technology. The Galaxy however was put into mass production and was a sledgehammer for Starfleet during the Dominion War being the premiere battleship, not taking any losses that we saw.
i can not answer towards the tomcat, however the tomcat is still in operation by the iranians mostly ironically. so not yet retired, however they do not have many to work with anymore. off topic aside.
I speak with a authority as a veteran of the United States Navy around the time period where they were being cycled out. The F-14 is retired in the United States military. The Iranians haven't retired them because they don't have anything to replace them with, their military aerospace industry is virtually non existent.
if there is a t6 connie then i expect to see a t6 miranda, nothing short of that. you cant have one without the other, both of them are from the same era even if the miranda is younger than the connie by a few decades, and the miranda is basically a connie saucer with nacelles and a mission pod attached to it. for that matter the excel is t5 and t5u, the centaur is the same, a excel saucer with nacelles and an engineering and torpedo pod attached to the underneath. i cant see any reason what so ever not to see these ships get an update nor for that matter be added as carrier pets as well.
It's called CBS and all there so called glory said "NO".
"IF". that one word makes a whole lot of difference. no need to get ahead of yourself.
But there has never been an "if" on this issue, it has always been an absolute no.
Buy it or not, there were only 12 ships at the time and you cant prove otherwise through TOS. so thats the end of that wasted effort. im sure you will attempt to dismiss my comment again, but you also have no valid basis to argue it either.
the connie had problems, some of which limited its ability to operate effectively. some of which was shown in the the series. it got the first refit which means there were problems that needed to be fixed, and then again when it went back for another refit. the problems could be anything to do with the ship itself to the relative power of the klingons and the romulans at the time and not being able to deal with it. again the ship was haplessly outmatched.
there is no canon proof the ship was turned into a training cruise ship, last i recalled the original was destroyed and the A version was to be put to spacedock to be retired. that was it.
your belief is irrelevant if it was completely obsolete or not obsolete. the fact is that it was clearly on its way out regardless.
the tomcat as stated is off topic, not my concern.
hahaha, go ahead, im sure your arrogance will make the issue go away.... you are not CBS and you have no idea what could happen. so yes the word IF is very much applicable.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Not all Constitutions were scrapped or phased out. There was one at Wolf 359.
Wolf 359 was an absolute crisis situation. Starfleet pulled everything they had in and near the Sol system out to try and stop that cube, including a Constitution class that was either in mothballs or a museum/tour ship.
We know that during times of peaceful exploration Starfleet barely keeps any starships near Sol, remember the V'Ger incident?
We don't know that. Could have been a training ship or still in service in a limited role
Also, there's no reason to believe it was fully operational, we don't see it until AFTER the Borg turn it to scrap.
well if it wasn't fully operational then it wouldn't been there to fight. was it towed there????
Not all Constitutions were scrapped or phased out. There was one at Wolf 359.
Wolf 359 was an absolute crisis situation. Starfleet pulled everything they had in and near the Sol system out to try and stop that cube, including a Constitution class that was either in mothballs or a museum/tour ship.
We know that during times of peaceful exploration Starfleet barely keeps any starships near Sol, remember the V'Ger incident?
We don't know that. Could have been a training ship or still in service in a limited role
Also, there's no reason to believe it was fully operational, we don't see it until AFTER the Borg turn it to scrap.
well if it wasn't fully operational then it wouldn't been there to fight. was it towed there????
that makes no sense.... It can have working engines, shields etc... even if it's not fully operational.
Right, the T'liss situation, and no T5 or above versions of the Miranda and Oberth are the basis for my reverse-engineered "rule." I could be way off, but it fits the way that things are in the game right now, and have been since launch.
It was Picard who served on the Constellation class Stargazer. Riker served on the Oberth class Pegasus.
As far as how old the Constellation is, they never told us, but it clearly uses Constitution refit body parts. It could have been in production as early as the refit project, or any time thereafter, but is clearly a relic by TNG. My personal suspicion was that it was put into production around ST VI to supplement the Excelsiors and Mirandas. Constitution refit style parts would have still been necessary for the Miranda, so there would have been a steady supply.
as i recall by the time of TNG the hathaway was at least 80 years old and most had been retired from active service. that could put the origin of the constellation around in and around the 2280's. while yes, using parts for the connie refit, a lot of it is its own ship.
however, if starfleet thought the const is as useful as the miranda or the excelsior class ship as old workhorses of the federation fleet, it would likely still be in service, but it is not. so clearly the const had a finite amount of potential before it was scrapped. it clearly had more potential than the connie or the ambassador class, both these classes didnt last much beyond 20-40 years at most. the excelsior and miranda classes have been operating solidly since 2280's into 2410, thats almost 130 years of service, by far the longest serving classes the federation has ever had.
I think the break is that the Constitution class wasn't the workhorse. It was the spearhead, the flagship class. By 2285 even the Enterprise herself was a cadet training ship. The Enterprise-A was likely the youngest ship of the class, the last of her kind to be commissioned. There are three ways of looking at it. Either they had just built her, just upgraded her, or they brought her out of mothballs so they could give her to Kirk and honor the first 1701. Scotty's "this new ship must've been put together by monkeys" lamentation would indicate the former, so that was the last Constitution class, likely built to fill a space in the fleet, or considering how new all the gear was, likely testing the Constitution class' viability for continued upgrade. So they build her brand spanking new with all the latest bells and whistles and see what she can do. But this is at the same time that the Excelsior is completing her trial runs. So they have the Enterprise-A over here and the Constitution over here for six years and they compare them side by side. The Enterprise with THE crew on a new five year mission after the Sha Ka Ree incident, then you have Sulu in command of the Excelsior for three years, you line up the stats. And they decide to retire the Enterprise-A at only eight years old.
There's also the matter of legacy. I think that for sentimental value there are a lot of people who wouldn't want to see the Constitution THE Constitution the ship class that had carried Starfleet on her back for almost 50 years 2245-2283 (extended to 2293) reduced to a cargo ship or a patrol ship. Better to put her out to pasture. In the illustrious words of Bishop, "If I can't be top of the line I'd rather not be anything."
I liken it to the F-14 Tomcat, a pure interceptor fighter that was replaced by a contemporary in the F-18 and rather than fall into a lighter role, she was honorably retired. Of course the Tomcat was the largest plane on the deck (I speak from experience) and had LOTS of unique parts and equipment and weapons.
the connie was the sole ship class operating in the UFP at this time, 12 of them, the enterprise was one of these twelve. as a flagship, it should have the best of everything in a large hull to look intimidating to its foes and enough power to seriously destroy anything in its path.
I don't buy that. That wasn't even true of Starfleet in the time of the NX class, and it certainly wouldn't be in the time of the Federation when the members were still producing starships. Twelve starships is completely insufficient to both patrol the territory of the Federation (at least 32 member worlds at the time of the five year mission) and explore unknown space. It's just too much ground to cover.
There's no sane way the Constitution was the only operating ship class. It was the lead top of the line exploration ship. And because of that it was also the front line defense vessel. The fastest, the hardest hitting, and the toughest. The ship of the line. And enough power to defend itself against anything in its path.
the connie had problems through its 5 year voyager, it received a refit in order to bring the connie up to the standards of the time, however the ship class was haplessly out of its depth before long it got a bigger refit and with the excel being launched, in effect now the new flagship due its vastly upgraded strength as a ship, the connie was relegated to either the scrapheap or re-designated as a heavy cruiser while the miranda played the role of a cruiser. it was scrapped as the class clearly couldnt keep up any longer and starfleet were not willing to commit resources on upgrading and building new connies. it also may of had something to do with its maximum warp being warp 8.
That's not what was shown. The Constitution class consistently outperformed it's specifications on the five year mission, primarily because she was a well built ship and Scotty was a mad genius.
You're compressing it a bit there. The Constitution was first commissioned in 2245, the five year mission was 2265, the Constitution refit was 2270-2272, the Excelsior and Hathaway were commissioned in 2285. The Enterprise-A was retired in 2293.
So the Constitution was top of the line for 25 years, and was then upgrade to continue being top of the line for another 10 years at least. By 2285, the Wrath of Khan, the Enterprise was a cadet training ship and NOT the Federation flagship. The Constitution was a tried and tested starship class by the time Kirk got the Enterprise and Scotty pushed her to her limits. The Constitution was ALWAYS designated as a Heavy Cruiser even though the Klingons called that a Battlecruiser. That has more to do with Starfleet's unwillingness to call their vessels warships. The top speed of the Refit Constitution was never established, I've actually heard Warp 12 as her absolute max (which is warp 9.356 on the TNG scale) though Warp 8 (warp 6.5 TNG) always seemed more reasonable.
And I believe I said, that she had become completely obsolete and thus retired.
of course more and more ship designs started coming out between 2280 and 2360's a few ship designs didnt live up to expectation like the ambassador class, there were problems in its design, the galaxy class was the ship the federation were trying to create that the ambassador class never was. but it was later discovered that the galaxy class had some vulnerabilities in its own design. the sovvie being put into prototyping as the dominion war was about the start up and through the war the new flagship of the fleet.
the ship line for the connie was effectively scrapped when the enterprise was decommissioned. however even that latest refit would of lasted for a decade anyway, so one way or the other it was out of the picture.
No. The Galaxy class didn't have that many vulnerabilities, the fact is that they needed something even more powerful against the Borg, so the Sovereign was put out with all the latest technology. The Galaxy however was put into mass production and was a sledgehammer for Starfleet during the Dominion War being the premiere battleship, not taking any losses that we saw.
i can not answer towards the tomcat, however the tomcat is still in operation by the iranians mostly ironically. so not yet retired, however they do not have many to work with anymore. off topic aside.
I speak with a authority as a veteran of the United States Navy around the time period where they were being cycled out. The F-14 is retired in the United States military. The Iranians haven't retired them because they don't have anything to replace them with, their military aerospace industry is virtually non existent.
if there is a t6 connie then i expect to see a t6 miranda, nothing short of that. you cant have one without the other, both of them are from the same era even if the miranda is younger than the connie by a few decades, and the miranda is basically a connie saucer with nacelles and a mission pod attached to it. for that matter the excel is t5 and t5u, the centaur is the same, a excel saucer with nacelles and an engineering and torpedo pod attached to the underneath. i cant see any reason what so ever not to see these ships get an update nor for that matter be added as carrier pets as well.
It's called CBS and all there so called glory said "NO".
"IF". that one word makes a whole lot of difference. no need to get ahead of yourself.
But there has never been an "if" on this issue, it has always been an absolute no.
Buy it or not, there were only 12 ships at the time and you cant prove otherwise through TOS. so thats the end of that wasted effort. im sure you will attempt to dismiss my comment again, but you also have no valid basis to argue it either.
the connie had problems, some of which limited its ability to operate effectively. some of which was shown in the the series. it got the first refit which means there were problems that needed to be fixed, and then again when it went back for another refit. the problems could be anything to do with the ship itself to the relative power of the klingons and the romulans at the time and not being able to deal with it. again the ship was haplessly outmatched.
there is no canon proof the ship was turned into a training cruise ship, last i recalled the original was destroyed and the A version was to be put to spacedock to be retired. that was it.
your belief is irrelevant if it was completely obsolete or not obsolete. the fact is that it was clearly on its way out regardless.
the tomcat as stated is off topic, not my concern.
hahaha, go ahead, im sure your arrogance will make the issue go away.... you are not CBS and you have no idea what could happen. so yes the word IF is very much applicable.
The Antares, Woden, Aurora, and type J starship disagree with you.
There were other starship designs TV budget was too small to build a TOS era Miranda Class, dreadnaught class, Paladin class, etc., but at the time Captain Kirk said it in season 1 or 2, only 12 Connie's in the fleet. I know they were building more Heavy Cruisers, Big / Very Big Milky way Galaxy to explore and defend!!!
You forget that the first Defiant went to the Mirror Universe and Connie was so powerful that the Terran Empire used it for over a Hundred years!!!
Not all Constitutions were scrapped or phased out. There was one at Wolf 359.
Wolf 359 was an absolute crisis situation. Starfleet pulled everything they had in and near the Sol system out to try and stop that cube, including a Constitution class that was either in mothballs or a museum/tour ship.
We know that during times of peaceful exploration Starfleet barely keeps any starships near Sol, remember the V'Ger incident?
We don't know that. Could have been a training ship or still in service in a limited role
Also, there's no reason to believe it was fully operational, we don't see it until AFTER the Borg turn it to scrap.
well if it wasn't fully operational then it wouldn't been there to fight. was it towed there????
that makes no sense.... It can have working engines, shields etc... even if it's not fully operational.
The only evidence is wreckage, this doesn't mean actual participation in the battle as part of the fleet. It could simply have been in the wrong place at the wrong time, perhaps responding to a civilian distress call and was caught in the crossfire. The Enterprise-B was in no condition to do much when the distress calls from the El-Aurian ships caught in the Nexus were recieved but Kirk reminded Harriman that it was their duty to respond despite not being fully operational.
Not all Constitutions were scrapped or phased out. There was one at Wolf 359.
Wolf 359 was an absolute crisis situation. Starfleet pulled everything they had in and near the Sol system out to try and stop that cube, including a Constitution class that was either in mothballs or a museum/tour ship.
We know that during times of peaceful exploration Starfleet barely keeps any starships near Sol, remember the V'Ger incident?
We don't know that. Could have been a training ship or still in service in a limited role
Limited doesn't mean that the class is still in service. That was probably the last operational Constitution class in Starfleet.
The class was dead Jim.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
In ST3 (search for spock) kurge calls the constitution class refit a "Federation Battlecruiser".
The 1701 under went 1 minor refit between "The cage" and the begining of TOS and 1 major refit just b4 ST1. Y cant the constitution class have had more upgrades between ST6 and "Encounter at farpoint"?
At wolf 359 sfc called in every ship capable of fighting. Maybe there wasent many ships in the area but sfc was able to call in 39 ships relativity quickly. Therse included Soyz, miranda, excelsior, ambasador, neworleans, niagra, constitution and nebula.
If the constitution class there had been in mothballs then wouldent she have needed to be reactivated with systems being reinstalled back on the ship? When the cvn64 was decomissioned they striped her so she was usless for fighting.
Most likely the refit became some sort of potrol / police ship.
The oberth, miranda, excelsior, soyz and constellation were all in service during the early TNG. As shown in BOBW even up to what you leave behind
But there has never been an "if" on this issue, it has always been an absolute no.
Not exactly:
Dstahl: Yes. The Ambassador class is coming in 2013. CBS is still pretty adamant about the Old Connie not being an end game ship, but you never know what can happen as time rolls by.
He definitely could have said it's *never* going to happen, but he specifically chose to make that statement for some reason.
Hmph, he also told me I was gonna have a Suliban Bridge Officer.
Right, the T'liss situation, and no T5 or above versions of the Miranda and Oberth are the basis for my reverse-engineered "rule." I could be way off, but it fits the way that things are in the game right now, and have been since launch.
It was Picard who served on the Constellation class Stargazer. Riker served on the Oberth class Pegasus.
As far as how old the Constellation is, they never told us, but it clearly uses Constitution refit body parts. It could have been in production as early as the refit project, or any time thereafter, but is clearly a relic by TNG. My personal suspicion was that it was put into production around ST VI to supplement the Excelsiors and Mirandas. Constitution refit style parts would have still been necessary for the Miranda, so there would have been a steady supply.
as i recall by the time of TNG the hathaway was at least 80 years old and most had been retired from active service. that could put the origin of the constellation around in and around the 2280's. while yes, using parts for the connie refit, a lot of it is its own ship.
however, if starfleet thought the const is as useful as the miranda or the excelsior class ship as old workhorses of the federation fleet, it would likely still be in service, but it is not. so clearly the const had a finite amount of potential before it was scrapped. it clearly had more potential than the connie or the ambassador class, both these classes didnt last much beyond 20-40 years at most. the excelsior and miranda classes have been operating solidly since 2280's into 2410, thats almost 130 years of service, by far the longest serving classes the federation has ever had.
I think the break is that the Constitution class wasn't the workhorse. It was the spearhead, the flagship class. By 2285 even the Enterprise herself was a cadet training ship. The Enterprise-A was likely the youngest ship of the class, the last of her kind to be commissioned. There are three ways of looking at it. Either they had just built her, just upgraded her, or they brought her out of mothballs so they could give her to Kirk and honor the first 1701. Scotty's "this new ship must've been put together by monkeys" lamentation would indicate the former, so that was the last Constitution class, likely built to fill a space in the fleet, or considering how new all the gear was, likely testing the Constitution class' viability for continued upgrade. So they build her brand spanking new with all the latest bells and whistles and see what she can do. But this is at the same time that the Excelsior is completing her trial runs. So they have the Enterprise-A over here and the Constitution over here for six years and they compare them side by side. The Enterprise with THE crew on a new five year mission after the Sha Ka Ree incident, then you have Sulu in command of the Excelsior for three years, you line up the stats. And they decide to retire the Enterprise-A at only eight years old.
There's also the matter of legacy. I think that for sentimental value there are a lot of people who wouldn't want to see the Constitution THE Constitution the ship class that had carried Starfleet on her back for almost 50 years 2245-2283 (extended to 2293) reduced to a cargo ship or a patrol ship. Better to put her out to pasture. In the illustrious words of Bishop, "If I can't be top of the line I'd rather not be anything."
I liken it to the F-14 Tomcat, a pure interceptor fighter that was replaced by a contemporary in the F-18 and rather than fall into a lighter role, she was honorably retired. Of course the Tomcat was the largest plane on the deck (I speak from experience) and had LOTS of unique parts and equipment and weapons.
the connie was the sole ship class operating in the UFP at this time, 12 of them, the enterprise was one of these twelve. as a flagship, it should have the best of everything in a large hull to look intimidating to its foes and enough power to seriously destroy anything in its path.
I don't buy that. That wasn't even true of Starfleet in the time of the NX class, and it certainly wouldn't be in the time of the Federation when the members were still producing starships. Twelve starships is completely insufficient to both patrol the territory of the Federation (at least 32 member worlds at the time of the five year mission) and explore unknown space. It's just too much ground to cover.
There's no sane way the Constitution was the only operating ship class. It was the lead top of the line exploration ship. And because of that it was also the front line defense vessel. The fastest, the hardest hitting, and the toughest. The ship of the line. And enough power to defend itself against anything in its path.
the connie had problems through its 5 year voyager, it received a refit in order to bring the connie up to the standards of the time, however the ship class was haplessly out of its depth before long it got a bigger refit and with the excel being launched, in effect now the new flagship due its vastly upgraded strength as a ship, the connie was relegated to either the scrapheap or re-designated as a heavy cruiser while the miranda played the role of a cruiser. it was scrapped as the class clearly couldnt keep up any longer and starfleet were not willing to commit resources on upgrading and building new connies. it also may of had something to do with its maximum warp being warp 8.
That's not what was shown. The Constitution class consistently outperformed it's specifications on the five year mission, primarily because she was a well built ship and Scotty was a mad genius.
You're compressing it a bit there. The Constitution was first commissioned in 2245, the five year mission was 2265, the Constitution refit was 2270-2272, the Excelsior and Hathaway were commissioned in 2285. The Enterprise-A was retired in 2293.
So the Constitution was top of the line for 25 years, and was then upgrade to continue being top of the line for another 10 years at least. By 2285, the Wrath of Khan, the Enterprise was a cadet training ship and NOT the Federation flagship. The Constitution was a tried and tested starship class by the time Kirk got the Enterprise and Scotty pushed her to her limits. The Constitution was ALWAYS designated as a Heavy Cruiser even though the Klingons called that a Battlecruiser. That has more to do with Starfleet's unwillingness to call their vessels warships. The top speed of the Refit Constitution was never established, I've actually heard Warp 12 as her absolute max (which is warp 9.356 on the TNG scale) though Warp 8 (warp 6.5 TNG) always seemed more reasonable.
And I believe I said, that she had become completely obsolete and thus retired.
of course more and more ship designs started coming out between 2280 and 2360's a few ship designs didnt live up to expectation like the ambassador class, there were problems in its design, the galaxy class was the ship the federation were trying to create that the ambassador class never was. but it was later discovered that the galaxy class had some vulnerabilities in its own design. the sovvie being put into prototyping as the dominion war was about the start up and through the war the new flagship of the fleet.
the ship line for the connie was effectively scrapped when the enterprise was decommissioned. however even that latest refit would of lasted for a decade anyway, so one way or the other it was out of the picture.
No. The Galaxy class didn't have that many vulnerabilities, the fact is that they needed something even more powerful against the Borg, so the Sovereign was put out with all the latest technology. The Galaxy however was put into mass production and was a sledgehammer for Starfleet during the Dominion War being the premiere battleship, not taking any losses that we saw.
i can not answer towards the tomcat, however the tomcat is still in operation by the iranians mostly ironically. so not yet retired, however they do not have many to work with anymore. off topic aside.
I speak with a authority as a veteran of the United States Navy around the time period where they were being cycled out. The F-14 is retired in the United States military. The Iranians haven't retired them because they don't have anything to replace them with, their military aerospace industry is virtually non existent.
if there is a t6 connie then i expect to see a t6 miranda, nothing short of that. you cant have one without the other, both of them are from the same era even if the miranda is younger than the connie by a few decades, and the miranda is basically a connie saucer with nacelles and a mission pod attached to it. for that matter the excel is t5 and t5u, the centaur is the same, a excel saucer with nacelles and an engineering and torpedo pod attached to the underneath. i cant see any reason what so ever not to see these ships get an update nor for that matter be added as carrier pets as well.
It's called CBS and all there so called glory said "NO".
"IF". that one word makes a whole lot of difference. no need to get ahead of yourself.
But there has never been an "if" on this issue, it has always been an absolute no.
Buy it or not, there were only 12 ships at the time and you cant prove otherwise through TOS. so thats the end of that wasted effort. im sure you will attempt to dismiss my comment again, but you also have no valid basis to argue it either.
the connie had problems, some of which limited its ability to operate effectively. some of which was shown in the the series. it got the first refit which means there were problems that needed to be fixed, and then again when it went back for another refit. the problems could be anything to do with the ship itself to the relative power of the klingons and the romulans at the time and not being able to deal with it. again the ship was haplessly outmatched.
there is no canon proof the ship was turned into a training cruise ship, last i recalled the original was destroyed and the A version was to be put to spacedock to be retired. that was it.
your belief is irrelevant if it was completely obsolete or not obsolete. the fact is that it was clearly on its way out regardless.
the tomcat as stated is off topic, not my concern.
hahaha, go ahead, im sure your arrogance will make the issue go away.... you are not CBS and you have no idea what could happen. so yes the word IF is very much applicable.
This is Kirk's quote regarding the Constitution class, "there are only twelve like it in the fleet." from Tomorrow is Yesterday, that is a far cry from, the fleet is composed of only twelve Constitution class starships, instead says there are twelve of this wonderful starship and a wider fleet.
Could you be more specific on the Constitution class' problems? I never saw it as anything less than a tough little ship able to overcome almost any obstacle. It got it's first major refit at 25 years of age. That's not an issue of problems with the class, it's an issue of age. All Starfleet ships get refits and upgrades over the course of their existence. The Excelsior class got its first major physical upgrade at the age of eight. The Galaxy got upgraded warp cores in the first five years of the Enterprise-D's existence. The Sovereign had upgrades installed in the first eight years of her existence. Massive upgrades like the Constitution received at the time of the motion picture means that Starfleet thought they could get more performance out of her, usually something that would happen with a ship that performs very well, not poorly.
The Enterprise and Enterprise-A never performed "poorly" in the films. Kirk performed poorly in his first battle with Khan and that crippled the Enterprise in battle until she was destroyed a few weeks later. She wasn't properly repaired when she took on Kruge. The Enterprise-A was ambushed by Klaa in orbit of Sha Ka Ree because everyone was so enthralled by "God" that they took their eyes off their sensors. They weren't scared of Qo'nos 1 in the least, and the only reason that the battle against Chang went as long as it did was because they couldn't see where to return fire, as soon as they could hit him they pounded him into oblivion. BUT the ship didn't take anywhere near the horrendous damage that it took in the Wrath of Khan, and despite being wailed on from an endless torpedo barrage, she was still able to return fire after taking an unshielded torpedo shot. That's not a poor performance by my estimation.
"No canon Proof". No canon proof? Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan is the canon proof. A major plot point was that the whole thing was supposed to be a cadet training cruise, a crew of midshipmen. Cadets in Starfleet Academy doing their midshipman cruise (live training on a starship). The Enterprise (NCC-1701) was attached to the Academy at this point. Spock was their teacher and Kirk was an Admiral making an inspection of how they were running the ship. Rather than complete the inspection he took them out on a joy ride. When Kirk ordered Sulu to head to Regula Sulu then said, "SO much for a little training cruise." Scotty, "He stayed at his post...when the other trainees ran.". When she got back to space dock half wrecked Starfleet decided instead of repairing her, to retire her. Because her service was done. The Enterprise specifically, not the Constitution class at that point.
It's not "belief" there were more Galaxies seen in Star Trek after the Sovereign class debuted than before. The ship was in mass production. As the original run of the Constitution was twelve, the same is true of the Galaxy, except the Galaxy was built six now and six later. At least ten participated in Operation Return and by that point three had already been destroyed (Yamato, Odyssey, and Enterprise) meaning Starfleet had built at least one more. Galaxies also showed up in the squadron that intercepted the Borg Sphere at the end of Endgame and the original was in Battlegroup Omega in Nemesis. The alternate timeline in Timeless of course showed Geordi LaForge as Captain of the Galaxy class USS Challenger. I don't see how the class was on its way out.
Your attempts to deride my "arrogance" is a waste. If they actually do release a tier 6 Constitution I will be one of the ones eating crow. But I doubt it. Still stay tuned, my eye roll at such an occurrence may be so hard that it's audible from wherever you may be.
Not all Constitutions were scrapped or phased out. There was one at Wolf 359.
Wolf 359 was an absolute crisis situation. Starfleet pulled everything they had in and near the Sol system out to try and stop that cube, including a Constitution class that was either in mothballs or a museum/tour ship.
We know that during times of peaceful exploration Starfleet barely keeps any starships near Sol, remember the V'Ger incident?
We don't know that. Could have been a training ship or still in service in a limited role
Also, there's no reason to believe it was fully operational, we don't see it until AFTER the Borg turn it to scrap.
well if it wasn't fully operational then it wouldn't been there to fight. was it towed there????
Fully operational doesn't mean stripped down to the brass tacks with her warp core removed. It just means not fully updated, online, or working. They may have charged her phaser banks, loaded all the torpedoes she could carry, brought the targeting sensors online, filled her fuel tanks, and prayed. But her long range sensors may have been sketchy, the turbolifts below deck 8 may have been without power, and she may have only been able to reach warp 6.
Not all Constitutions were scrapped or phased out. There was one at Wolf 359.
Wolf 359 was an absolute crisis situation. Starfleet pulled everything they had in and near the Sol system out to try and stop that cube, including a Constitution class that was either in mothballs or a museum/tour ship.
We know that during times of peaceful exploration Starfleet barely keeps any starships near Sol, remember the V'Ger incident?
We don't know that. Could have been a training ship or still in service in a limited role
Also, there's no reason to believe it was fully operational, we don't see it until AFTER the Borg turn it to scrap.
well if it wasn't fully operational then it wouldn't been there to fight. was it towed there????
that makes no sense.... It can have working engines, shields etc... even if it's not fully operational.
The only evidence is wreckage, this doesn't mean actual participation in the battle as part of the fleet. It could simply have been in the wrong place at the wrong time, perhaps responding to a civilian distress call and was caught in the crossfire. The Enterprise-B was in no condition to do much when the distress calls from the El-Aurian ships caught in the Nexus were recieved but Kirk reminded Harriman that it was their duty to respond despite not being fully operational.
We know at the very least that it wasn't there by coincidence. Starfleet mobilized 40 starships for the Battle of Wolf 359 and they knew the battle was coming. That said it isn't physically impossible, we know there was a civilian ship caught in the battle.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Good grief, all this hubbub over one teaser scene taking over the whole thread.
I will admit to a suspicion that something big is up because Cryptic isn't squashing the Connie talk like they normally would. Not that I believe there's an endgame Connie in the works, but that they don't mind the extra hype this time.
I sense the wise hand of Trendy in that. Silence is sometimes the best answer.
But I also sense the cries of a thousand voices screaming out in nerd rage when their hopes are shattered... Some of those suddenly silenced by the BanHammer because they don't know when to stop.
The wise on both sides will take heed and know when to let go.
This is Kirk's quote regarding the Constitution class, "there are only twelve like it in the fleet." from Tomorrow is Yesterday, that is a far cry from, the fleet is composed of only twelve Constitution class starships, instead says there are twelve of this wonderful starship and a wider fleet.
IIRC, when that quote was said they still tried to keep it as vague as possible about who they were exactly and tried to create an impression Enterprise was part of some kind of secret program from the then-present-day US... So, it's at best a half-truth in any case.
Good grief, all this hubbub over one teaser scene taking over the whole thread.
I will admit to a suspicion that something big is up because Cryptic isn't squashing the Connie talk like they normally would. Not that I believe there's an endgame Connie in the works, but that they don't mind the extra hype this time.
I sense the wise hand of Trendy in that. Silence is sometimes the best answer.
But I also sense the cries of a thousand voices screaming out in nerd rage when their hopes are shattered... Some of those suddenly silenced by the BanHammer because they don't know when to stop.
The wise on both sides will take heed and know when to let go.
I don't see any rage. Just debate and discussion. The teaser was imo the most exciting part. But please....tell us what we should talk about instead.
Let go of Hope, never!!!!!!! Did Fans let go of that Ulgy Jupiter Class wanting it in the game, noooo. Look what happened, they got it and Cryptic made it look 200% better. I grow up with The Original Series and loved it from the first show I saw as a kid, so why not want a T6 Connie for endgame. Cryptic said this game is for us Star Trek fans. With smaller Starships like Defiant of DS9 getting T6 Upgrade why not all TV Series starships we would love to use go to end game too? All of us at some point wanted be on or command a Star Trek Starship from one of the shows.
Endgame Connie discussion is what I was referring to, and the rage will come in due time... It always does.
Nothing wrong with wondering about the Enterprise in the trailer and speculating about the reveal. But it's a little obsessive to insist it's an Endgame Connie after so many years of hearing "No, absolutely not". Especially when other explanations are far more likely.
I'm surprised that there is not a lot of discussion about the rest of it, but other than the red alert the discussion is happening in other threads so I guess I shouldn't be too surprised.
Good grief, all this hubbub over one teaser scene taking over the whole thread.
I will admit to a suspicion that something big is up because Cryptic isn't squashing the Connie talk like they normally would. Not that I believe there's an endgame Connie in the works, but that they don't mind the extra hype this time.
I sense the wise hand of Trendy in that. Silence is sometimes the best answer.
But I also sense the cries of a thousand voices screaming out in nerd rage when their hopes are shattered... Some of those suddenly silenced by the BanHammer because they don't know when to stop.
The wise on both sides will take heed and know when to let go.
I was actually enjoying the review of Starship class history myself. It's one of my favorite subjects.
This is Kirk's quote regarding the Constitution class, "there are only twelve like it in the fleet." from Tomorrow is Yesterday, that is a far cry from, the fleet is composed of only twelve Constitution class starships, instead says there are twelve of this wonderful starship and a wider fleet.
IIRC, when that quote was said they still tried to keep it as vague as possible about who they were exactly and tried to create an impression Enterprise was part of some kind of secret program from the then-present-day US... So, it's at best a half-truth in any case.
Which only reinforces your point.
They had actually dropped the pretense at that point, referring to the ship as in the service of the United Earth Space Probe Agency. Which might I add would be a wonderful thing to visit and flesh out. For instance, they're the perfect organization to have launched the Quadros 1 probe that first mapped the Gamma Quadrant.
am i the only one who is just "meh" at the whole new temporal war thing and sick of war after war after war and want to do some sort of exploring that involves you the character actually going there and doing something?
No you are not, but hey the only thing in the story so far always come from the last season. I would welcome doing exploration like they used to in Star Trek, TNG. When i mean new is something really new, not something planted the seed in the season or past episode. Time travel in Star Trek universe is over rated and over and over used.
yea, the whole story line is coming off a bit ent/voy time travel reset button like.
its certainly not up to what cryptic did storywise with the vaaduar.
though, i cant help but grin at the federation declaring themselves best thing ever for eliminating the nakhul because greater good. gods damn i hate the sanctimonious, hubris of the disgusting federation.
having watched the trailer though, i think i figured it out.
its the vorlons fault.
Let go of Hope, never!!!!!!! Did Fans let go of that Ulgy Jupiter Class wanting it in the game, noooo. Look what happened, they got it and Cryptic made it look 200% better. I grow up with The Original Series and loved it from the first show I saw as a kid, so why not want a T6 Connie for endgame. Cryptic said this game is for us Star Trek fans. With smaller Starships like Defiant of DS9 getting T6 Upgrade why not all TV Series starships we would love to use go to end game too? All of us at some point wanted be on or command a Star Trek Starship from one of the shows.
Except the Jupiter we wanted was, the original classification, a Federation Dreadnought
Me personally I wanted to design my own and Captain it, though as a small child I was down for the Excelsior.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Endgame Connie discussion is what I was referring to, and the rage will come in due time... It always does.
Nothing wrong with wondering about the Enterprise in the trailer and speculating about the reveal. But it's a little obsessive to insist it's an Endgame Connie after so many years of hearing "No, absolutely not". Especially when other explanations are far more likely.
I'm surprised that there is not a lot of discussion about the rest of it, but other than the red alert the discussion is happening in other threads so I guess I shouldn't be too surprised.
You are right as well, if it was not about T6 Connie then this is about MR. Shatner doing voice overs with new TOS like Episodes, but being that story arcs are too short lived, fans are not looking at that so much. Iconian war was toooo short a run and toooo overwhelming of a story, it should have been a 2,3 or 4 part seasons or at the very least Red Alerts added too. We get 2 seasons per year, TV series have story arcs that need to run in 2 or more parts with big events that have been building over the months or years and Cryptic could have done the same thing.
If No T6 Connie, I really hope this was about Thee one an only Captain Kirk now on the Bridge or both are coming!!!
Side note: I keep finding stories with holes, over laps or just told wrong/too short. Voice overs not matching text, example Tom paris scene at Earth Space Dock EP3 or Ep2 and load screen saying it was loading Starbase 234 when we went to Earth Space Dock and most Characters half in deck of Romulan Fortilla scene at the end.
Love the game, but I think like a Detective and watch for clues and try not to miss anything important.
I even knew that the Iconian War would end the way it did and that the Fed/Rom/Kling's missed that clue at the begining and the trip to the past would reveal the lost truth about the Iconians. Very Star Trek like story for that part and nice Sela twist to show she was wrong with her choosen actions.
Good grief, all this hubbub over one teaser scene taking over the whole thread.
I will admit to a suspicion that something big is up because Cryptic isn't squashing the Connie talk like they normally would. Not that I believe there's an endgame Connie in the works, but that they don't mind the extra hype this time.
I sense the wise hand of Trendy in that. Silence is sometimes the best answer.
But I also sense the cries of a thousand voices screaming out in nerd rage when their hopes are shattered... Some of those suddenly silenced by the BanHammer because they don't know when to stop.
The wise on both sides will take heed and know when to let go.
Heh...
Some of us haven't "let it go" since the T-5U's showed up, I don't think anybody believes that is going to change anytime soon.
<chuckle>
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Good grief, all this hubbub over one teaser scene taking over the whole thread.
I will admit to a suspicion that something big is up because Cryptic isn't squashing the Connie talk like they normally would. Not that I believe there's an endgame Connie in the works, but that they don't mind the extra hype this time.
I sense the wise hand of Trendy in that. Silence is sometimes the best answer.
But I also sense the cries of a thousand voices screaming out in nerd rage when their hopes are shattered... Some of those suddenly silenced by the BanHammer because they don't know when to stop.
The wise on both sides will take heed and know when to let go.
Heh...
Some of us haven't "let it go" since the T-5U's showed up, I don't think anybody believes that is going to change anytime soon.
<chuckle>
Aye idk how many times its been said that CBS has said no to endgame connies, people need to get over it already.
OK... then I'm gonna guess that the teaser is an indication that PWE/Cryptic has acquired a license to add the JJ-Trek Universe to the game.
Obviously, They used the original Enterprise to throw us off the track.
<chuckle>
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Good grief, all this hubbub over one teaser scene taking over the whole thread.
I will admit to a suspicion that something big is up because Cryptic isn't squashing the Connie talk like they normally would. Not that I believe there's an endgame Connie in the works, but that they don't mind the extra hype this time.
I sense the wise hand of Trendy in that. Silence is sometimes the best answer.
But I also sense the cries of a thousand voices screaming out in nerd rage when their hopes are shattered... Some of those suddenly silenced by the BanHammer because they don't know when to stop.
The wise on both sides will take heed and know when to let go.
Heh...
Some of us haven't "let it go" since the T-5U's showed up, I don't think anybody believes that is going to change anytime soon.
<chuckle>
Aye idk how many times its been said that CBS has said no to endgame connies, people need to get over it already.
The whole T6 (or whatever tier is currently top) Connie debate is probaly never going to rest.
It is our analogue of taking the kids shopping with us and standing in the cash register queue constantly saying no to sweets.
Kid (player): Can I have a T6 Connie?
Parent1(Cryptic/PWE): No
Kid: Please!! I'll be good.
Parent1: No, your (Parent 2) said not to give you any.
Kid: Why
Parent 1: Because ...
Parent 2(CBS): I said no and that's final.
Endgame Connie discussion is what I was referring to, and the rage will come in due time... It always does.
Nothing wrong with wondering about the Enterprise in the trailer and speculating about the reveal. But it's a little obsessive to insist it's an Endgame Connie after so many years of hearing "No, absolutely not". Especially when other explanations are far more likely.
I'm surprised that there is not a lot of discussion about the rest of it, but other than the red alert the discussion is happening in other threads so I guess I shouldn't be too surprised.
You are right as well, if it was not about T6 Connie then this is about MR. Shatner doing voice overs with new TOS like Episodes, but being that story arcs are too short lived, fans are not looking at that so much. Iconian war was toooo short a run and toooo overwhelming of a story, it should have been a 2,3 or 4 part seasons or at the very least Red Alerts added too. We get 2 seasons per year, TV series have story arcs that need to run in 2 or more parts with big events that have been building over the months or years and Cryptic could have done the same thing.
If No T6 Connie, I really hope this was about Thee one an only Captain Kirk now on the Bridge or both are coming!!!
Side note: I keep finding stories with holes, over laps or just told wrong/too short. Voice overs not matching text, example Tom paris scene at Earth Space Dock EP3 or Ep2 and load screen saying it was loading Starbase 234 when we went to Earth Space Dock and most Characters half in deck of Romulan Fortilla scene at the end.
Love the game, but I think like a Detective and watch for clues and try not to miss anything important.
I even knew that the Iconian War would end the way it did and that the Fed/Rom/Kling's missed that clue at the begining and the trip to the past would reveal the lost truth about the Iconians. Very Star Trek like story for that part and nice Sela twist to show she was wrong with her choosen actions.
I gotta admit, Shatner would be a MUCH better surprise. Although in my view, nothing would be better than Picard. OK, all captains would be better. I just wish someone could get Shatner to read Kirk's letter to Spock in Star Trek (2009) film.
OK... then I'm gonna guess that the teaser is an indication that PWE/Cryptic has acquired a license to add the JJ-Trek Universe to the game.
Obviously, They used the original Enterprise to throw us off the track.
<chuckle>
God the JJ-prise. That sumbitch is bigger than an Odyssey. And it's poorly designed. Matt Jefferies outdesigned his team in a CAVE...in the NINETEEN SIXTIES! WITH NO COMPUTERS!
Good grief, all this hubbub over one teaser scene taking over the whole thread.
I will admit to a suspicion that something big is up because Cryptic isn't squashing the Connie talk like they normally would. Not that I believe there's an endgame Connie in the works, but that they don't mind the extra hype this time.
I sense the wise hand of Trendy in that. Silence is sometimes the best answer.
But I also sense the cries of a thousand voices screaming out in nerd rage when their hopes are shattered... Some of those suddenly silenced by the BanHammer because they don't know when to stop.
The wise on both sides will take heed and know when to let go.
Heh...
Some of us haven't "let it go" since the T-5U's showed up, I don't think anybody believes that is going to change anytime soon.
<chuckle>
Aye idk how many times its been said that CBS has said no to endgame connies, people need to get over it already.
The whole T6 (or whatever tier is currently top) Connie debate is probaly never going to rest.
It is our analogue of taking the kids shopping with us and standing in the cash register queue constantly saying no to sweets.
Kid (player): Can I have a T6 Connie?
Parent1(Cryptic/PWE): No
Kid: Please!! I'll be good.
Parent1: No, your (Parent 2) said not to give you any.
Kid: Why
Parent 1: Because ...
Parent 2(CBS): I said no and that's final.
A few days later ..
Kid (player): Can I have a T6 Connie?
While I would never infantilize the opposition like that...I think CBS would.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
So this is WAAAYYYY out in left field( or in the weeds for non baseball countries) but what if its the date of a featured episode that involves the 1701, and-just for speculation fun-it involves James T. Kirk, could William Shatner be doing a VO. LOL I know, I know chances are about a billion zillion to one. Still a fun thought even if not realistic.
Comments
Not exactly:
He definitely could have said it's *never* going to happen, but he specifically chose to make that statement for some reason.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
My character Tsin'xing
Buy it or not, there were only 12 ships at the time and you cant prove otherwise through TOS. so thats the end of that wasted effort. im sure you will attempt to dismiss my comment again, but you also have no valid basis to argue it either.
the connie had problems, some of which limited its ability to operate effectively. some of which was shown in the the series. it got the first refit which means there were problems that needed to be fixed, and then again when it went back for another refit. the problems could be anything to do with the ship itself to the relative power of the klingons and the romulans at the time and not being able to deal with it. again the ship was haplessly outmatched.
there is no canon proof the ship was turned into a training cruise ship, last i recalled the original was destroyed and the A version was to be put to spacedock to be retired. that was it.
your belief is irrelevant if it was completely obsolete or not obsolete. the fact is that it was clearly on its way out regardless.
the tomcat as stated is off topic, not my concern.
hahaha, go ahead, im sure your arrogance will make the issue go away.... you are not CBS and you have no idea what could happen. so yes the word IF is very much applicable.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
My character Tsin'xing
well if it wasn't fully operational then it wouldn't been there to fight. was it towed there????
original join date 2010
Member: Team Trekyards. Visit Trekyards today!
My character Tsin'xing
The Antares, Woden, Aurora, and type J starship disagree with you.
original join date 2010
Member: Team Trekyards. Visit Trekyards today!
You forget that the first Defiant went to the Mirror Universe and Connie was so powerful that the Terran Empire used it for over a Hundred years!!!
The only evidence is wreckage, this doesn't mean actual participation in the battle as part of the fleet. It could simply have been in the wrong place at the wrong time, perhaps responding to a civilian distress call and was caught in the crossfire. The Enterprise-B was in no condition to do much when the distress calls from the El-Aurian ships caught in the Nexus were recieved but Kirk reminded Harriman that it was their duty to respond despite not being fully operational.
Limited doesn't mean that the class is still in service. That was probably the last operational Constitution class in Starfleet.
The class was dead Jim.
The 1701 under went 1 minor refit between "The cage" and the begining of TOS and 1 major refit just b4 ST1. Y cant the constitution class have had more upgrades between ST6 and "Encounter at farpoint"?
At wolf 359 sfc called in every ship capable of fighting. Maybe there wasent many ships in the area but sfc was able to call in 39 ships relativity quickly. Therse included Soyz, miranda, excelsior, ambasador, neworleans, niagra, constitution and nebula.
If the constitution class there had been in mothballs then wouldent she have needed to be reactivated with systems being reinstalled back on the ship? When the cvn64 was decomissioned they striped her so she was usless for fighting.
Most likely the refit became some sort of potrol / police ship.
The oberth, miranda, excelsior, soyz and constellation were all in service during the early TNG. As shown in BOBW even up to what you leave behind
Hmph, he also told me I was gonna have a Suliban Bridge Officer.
We're Star Trek fans, focusing on Minutiae and what we want to see is our business.
This is Kirk's quote regarding the Constitution class, "there are only twelve like it in the fleet." from Tomorrow is Yesterday, that is a far cry from, the fleet is composed of only twelve Constitution class starships, instead says there are twelve of this wonderful starship and a wider fleet.
Could you be more specific on the Constitution class' problems? I never saw it as anything less than a tough little ship able to overcome almost any obstacle. It got it's first major refit at 25 years of age. That's not an issue of problems with the class, it's an issue of age. All Starfleet ships get refits and upgrades over the course of their existence. The Excelsior class got its first major physical upgrade at the age of eight. The Galaxy got upgraded warp cores in the first five years of the Enterprise-D's existence. The Sovereign had upgrades installed in the first eight years of her existence. Massive upgrades like the Constitution received at the time of the motion picture means that Starfleet thought they could get more performance out of her, usually something that would happen with a ship that performs very well, not poorly.
The Enterprise and Enterprise-A never performed "poorly" in the films. Kirk performed poorly in his first battle with Khan and that crippled the Enterprise in battle until she was destroyed a few weeks later. She wasn't properly repaired when she took on Kruge. The Enterprise-A was ambushed by Klaa in orbit of Sha Ka Ree because everyone was so enthralled by "God" that they took their eyes off their sensors. They weren't scared of Qo'nos 1 in the least, and the only reason that the battle against Chang went as long as it did was because they couldn't see where to return fire, as soon as they could hit him they pounded him into oblivion. BUT the ship didn't take anywhere near the horrendous damage that it took in the Wrath of Khan, and despite being wailed on from an endless torpedo barrage, she was still able to return fire after taking an unshielded torpedo shot. That's not a poor performance by my estimation.
"No canon Proof". No canon proof? Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan is the canon proof. A major plot point was that the whole thing was supposed to be a cadet training cruise, a crew of midshipmen. Cadets in Starfleet Academy doing their midshipman cruise (live training on a starship). The Enterprise (NCC-1701) was attached to the Academy at this point. Spock was their teacher and Kirk was an Admiral making an inspection of how they were running the ship. Rather than complete the inspection he took them out on a joy ride. When Kirk ordered Sulu to head to Regula Sulu then said, "SO much for a little training cruise." Scotty, "He stayed at his post...when the other trainees ran.". When she got back to space dock half wrecked Starfleet decided instead of repairing her, to retire her. Because her service was done. The Enterprise specifically, not the Constitution class at that point.
It's not "belief" there were more Galaxies seen in Star Trek after the Sovereign class debuted than before. The ship was in mass production. As the original run of the Constitution was twelve, the same is true of the Galaxy, except the Galaxy was built six now and six later. At least ten participated in Operation Return and by that point three had already been destroyed (Yamato, Odyssey, and Enterprise) meaning Starfleet had built at least one more. Galaxies also showed up in the squadron that intercepted the Borg Sphere at the end of Endgame and the original was in Battlegroup Omega in Nemesis. The alternate timeline in Timeless of course showed Geordi LaForge as Captain of the Galaxy class USS Challenger. I don't see how the class was on its way out.
Your attempts to deride my "arrogance" is a waste. If they actually do release a tier 6 Constitution I will be one of the ones eating crow. But I doubt it. Still stay tuned, my eye roll at such an occurrence may be so hard that it's audible from wherever you may be.
Fully operational doesn't mean stripped down to the brass tacks with her warp core removed. It just means not fully updated, online, or working. They may have charged her phaser banks, loaded all the torpedoes she could carry, brought the targeting sensors online, filled her fuel tanks, and prayed. But her long range sensors may have been sketchy, the turbolifts below deck 8 may have been without power, and she may have only been able to reach warp 6.
We know at the very least that it wasn't there by coincidence. Starfleet mobilized 40 starships for the Battle of Wolf 359 and they knew the battle was coming. That said it isn't physically impossible, we know there was a civilian ship caught in the battle.
I will admit to a suspicion that something big is up because Cryptic isn't squashing the Connie talk like they normally would. Not that I believe there's an endgame Connie in the works, but that they don't mind the extra hype this time.
I sense the wise hand of Trendy in that. Silence is sometimes the best answer.
But I also sense the cries of a thousand voices screaming out in nerd rage when their hopes are shattered... Some of those suddenly silenced by the BanHammer because they don't know when to stop.
The wise on both sides will take heed and know when to let go.
Which only reinforces your point.
I don't see any rage. Just debate and discussion. The teaser was imo the most exciting part. But please....tell us what we should talk about instead.
original join date 2010
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Nothing wrong with wondering about the Enterprise in the trailer and speculating about the reveal. But it's a little obsessive to insist it's an Endgame Connie after so many years of hearing "No, absolutely not". Especially when other explanations are far more likely.
I'm surprised that there is not a lot of discussion about the rest of it, but other than the red alert the discussion is happening in other threads so I guess I shouldn't be too surprised.
I was actually enjoying the review of Starship class history myself. It's one of my favorite subjects.
They had actually dropped the pretense at that point, referring to the ship as in the service of the United Earth Space Probe Agency. Which might I add would be a wonderful thing to visit and flesh out. For instance, they're the perfect organization to have launched the Quadros 1 probe that first mapped the Gamma Quadrant.
Except the Tholians did it.
Except the Jupiter we wanted was, the original classification, a Federation Dreadnought
Me personally I wanted to design my own and Captain it, though as a small child I was down for the Excelsior.
You are right as well, if it was not about T6 Connie then this is about MR. Shatner doing voice overs with new TOS like Episodes, but being that story arcs are too short lived, fans are not looking at that so much. Iconian war was toooo short a run and toooo overwhelming of a story, it should have been a 2,3 or 4 part seasons or at the very least Red Alerts added too. We get 2 seasons per year, TV series have story arcs that need to run in 2 or more parts with big events that have been building over the months or years and Cryptic could have done the same thing.
If No T6 Connie, I really hope this was about Thee one an only Captain Kirk now on the Bridge or both are coming!!!
Side note: I keep finding stories with holes, over laps or just told wrong/too short. Voice overs not matching text, example Tom paris scene at Earth Space Dock EP3 or Ep2 and load screen saying it was loading Starbase 234 when we went to Earth Space Dock and most Characters half in deck of Romulan Fortilla scene at the end.
Love the game, but I think like a Detective and watch for clues and try not to miss anything important.
I even knew that the Iconian War would end the way it did and that the Fed/Rom/Kling's missed that clue at the begining and the trip to the past would reveal the lost truth about the Iconians. Very Star Trek like story for that part and nice Sela twist to show she was wrong with her choosen actions.
Heh...
Some of us haven't "let it go" since the T-5U's showed up, I don't think anybody believes that is going to change anytime soon.
<chuckle>
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Aye idk how many times its been said that CBS has said no to endgame connies, people need to get over it already.
Obviously, They used the original Enterprise to throw us off the track.
<chuckle>
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
The whole T6 (or whatever tier is currently top) Connie debate is probaly never going to rest.
It is our analogue of taking the kids shopping with us and standing in the cash register queue constantly saying no to sweets.
Kid (player): Can I have a T6 Connie?
Parent1(Cryptic/PWE): No
Kid: Please!! I'll be good.
Parent1: No, your (Parent 2) said not to give you any.
Kid: Why
Parent 1: Because ...
Parent 2(CBS): I said no and that's final.
A few days later ..
Kid (player): Can I have a T6 Connie?
I gotta admit, Shatner would be a MUCH better surprise. Although in my view, nothing would be better than Picard. OK, all captains would be better. I just wish someone could get Shatner to read Kirk's letter to Spock in Star Trek (2009) film.
God the JJ-prise. That sumbitch is bigger than an Odyssey. And it's poorly designed. Matt Jefferies outdesigned his team in a CAVE...in the NINETEEN SIXTIES! WITH NO COMPUTERS!
While I would never infantilize the opposition like that...I think CBS would.