So, from the OP's mention of it...does anyone know what this "blue beam weapon" actually was? Tetryon beam array, tachyon, destabilizing tachyon, one of the novelty lock box weapons?
Sounds like Destabilizing Resonance Beam. Combined with APA and certain attack patterns it can do massive damage on builds with high PartGen.
I was thinking it might be the 3 piece power from the Sunrise set, the Quantum Destabilizing Beam.
That's also possible. There's quite a few options actually if the OP had not mentioned the beams were blue.
E.g. the lance weapons from the intel ships, Gurumba and Galaxy-X and so forth.
It should be noted that i can almost one shot (one shot if crit) the cubes and tac cubes in the red alerts on my fed engineer.
Though i have a number of high Deeps builds i usually prefer spike build, torpedo strikes and space magic.
Off the top of my head things that I've nearly one-shot a cube with on my builds:
Not all beams admitedly but there's definitely a lot of extremely powerful one-shot attacks out there. And most of those (bar the phaser lance) can be slotted onto any ship, in fact with a science ship they are probably more deadly!
I thought so too. Until I got $#it from one guy for posting 16k. Apparently there's some manner of inflation being applied to expectations.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,047Community Moderator
I was able to melt groups of Borg Cubes with a phased tetryon build combined with AP Beta. Never got a chance to see how it would have solo'd a Command Ship as someone always appeared around then the last few times I tried. Think I average at least 10k in a Fleet T5U Sovy.
Well all the players on the teams I was playing with last night was DPS'ing 80-90 K average.
I was jumping around 10-11k.
Heh some luck then indeed, usually the average for pug is 10-15k, more often then not on the lower end of that.
You sure you didn't play with guys from DPS or Dentals maybe? Can't remember last time I saw four Feds in the same pug team with so high average damage... or nearly anyway.
I joined a fleet who promised to help me out.. They said they weren't DPS monkies but they all rest at around 80-90 K DPS average.. I sucked but they said they would help, even though I barely contribute when we do STFS...
I thought 80-90 K was average seeing how quickly people blow stuff up sometimes.. :S I'm just so confused v.v
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,047Community Moderator
No... 80-90k is very high. Usually a serious investment to get specific mods on specific weapons, traits, consoles, ship, BOffs, DOffs...
Oh no, like the others are saying, you're running about average. Those fleetmates of yours may not be DPS monkies, but they're certainly high-end DPSers.
I can barely manage average myself, and I like it that way.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
Then I am going to leave that fleet... I don't want to be a part of that.. And I always had my head filled with that 80-90 k was average and I just.. Sucked.. But now I am just average.. So that is nice.. I am very glad.. But it sucks.. Now I'm back to square one.. No fleet and no one to play with
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,047Community Moderator
I'd say they were dedicated. And specific mods probably mean getting CrtDx2 Pen or CrtDx3 on Antiproton. Frankly, if you like how your build performs, then nothing is wrong with it. Take me for example. For a long time I used Phased Tetryon. Still do on one ship. Tetryon is generally viewed as garbage because "its proc is useless once the shields go down". I see it as I'm taking the shields down faster to hit bare hull sooner. To me, proc isn't everything. I happen to like the look of Phased Tetryon, and I made a pretty decent build with it.
Then I am going to leave that fleet... I don't want to be a part of that.. And I always had my head filled with that 80-90 k was average and I just.. Sucked.. But now I am just average.. So that is nice.. I am very glad.. But it sucks.. Now I'm back to square one.. No fleet and no one to play with
There are tons of players in this game, and tons of fleets, so you have a plethora of people & fleets to chose from!
I thought 80-90 K was average seeing how quickly people blow stuff up sometimes.. :S I'm just so confused v.v
Not trying to confuse you further, but "quickly blowing stuff up" doesn't necessarily comes from high sustained damage, usually it comes from burst. My fastest "blowing stuff up" ship is my tac pilot, it has DHCs and DBB, it shred single targets into pieces in seconds (it's my PvP go-to ship atm), but it barely pushes more then 20k-ish overall (and I have to really try, if I slack a little, it falls down very fast), meaning it's one of my lower performing ships overall.
And yeah, 90k ISA without a nanny is high indeed. Not average players, more like high end dpsers.
@kate370 , what you have to understand is that the "DPS" numbers that are thrown around are 99% based on a single, outdated map. It's only ISA people play over and over again to parse the numbers and those numbers get higher when the mission is completed faster as "damage per second" is the amount of damage dealt divided through the total time the mission took in seconds. That means someone doing 90k DPS with a team of like minded individuals deals singificantly less DPS when pugging, by the very nature of the calculation. The longer the mission takes the lower the DPS score get. To really compare what your ship is able to deal in damage you have to compare total damage numbers.
Now, someone dealing 90k+ DPS obviously knows how to synergize the items and they will on average deal more damage in every content in the game, but the highest numbers stem from being able to play ISA blind because players that are around longer play the same map for five years now. They use a memorized pattern of movement, a "coreography" if you will to be at a set time at a set point in the map, activating a set of abilities that will hit as many targets as possible. BFAW right above the generator in ISA hits all generators, all nodes, the gate and all spheres hovering around. That means they deal 10 times the damage they'd deal on a single target because the abilitiy doesn't deal less damage per target as an AoE is supposed to be but it deals full damage to every target. They also deal damage to invulnerable targets - that doesn't contribute to the mission, but it is parsed in the combatlog reader and increases "DPS". They have a premade team with synergized buffs and superior communication (voice chat, giving commands when to activate which buff for the team for optimal effects). A ISA run is a run under "lab conditions" so to speak.
What you have to understand is that "DPSing" is a sport playing systems and tricking the parser. The combatlog reader is a non-supported third party tool, Cryptic/STO doesn't even measure how much DPS you deal. Some missions see what amount of total damage and healing you dealt to award a reward, though.
To deal lots of damage you just have to know what abilities synergize well and how to boost them. For instance, I modified my Nebula in lights of this thread to use the QDB from the sunrise set, tachyon beam and the resonance beam paired with tyken's rift as a means of attack. I fire all these abilities together. I have a secondary deflector adding radiation damage to all of them. I have embassy consoles that add a chance of plasma damage to all of them. I activate emergency power to auxilliary before, I pop a particle battery before, I might activate the romulan rep ability before, I have the delta ordnance weapon set slotted to increase radiation damage etc, I have means of reducing cooldowns to have those abilities available sooner...
One attack like that is devestating. But it takes a while to recover, the QDB has a two minute cooldown, during that time I'm at reduced capacity. But single targets can be "one-shotted" or take massive damage that way, especially with shields down. For example if I'd slot a doff with a chance to disable a shield facing with tachyon beam or energy syphon, I'd hit opportunity shots on bare hull increasing damage furher. But these spike attacks lead to a lower DPS than having a constant back-to-back hail of BFAW boosted in a similiar way.
Still, despite that I was able to hit over 20k "DPS" on a pug ISA run - I don't reach 90k there for a number of rasons, for example because the map is "optimized" for those BFAW tricks with the immovable, invulnerable targets that are always at the same position, I'm a sci captain lacking attack pattern alpha and so on. But believe me that I can deal massive damage to advanced or maybe even elite targets if the opportunity arises.
Don't hurt your head over DPSing and elitist attitudes. You can do very well on your own with a little bit of research.
Post edited by angrytarg on
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
DPS is not the only measure of how good you are. People get so stuck up on the idea of DPS numbers yet they forget that this number can be misread or even used incorrectly to show your performance. If you go into ISA and sit in the right place you can BFAW half the map but most of the targets are invulnerable so it means nothing to some degree. I always maintain there's actual measured DPS and then there's "effective" DPS which us that damage that actually helps the team. No use doing 100k DPS if most of its not helping the team and only half of it is hitting targets you are supposed to.
And remember just because someone says they can do high DPS in a single controlled run of ISA doesn't mean they will do the same in every other map. For most people their top DPS score is based on a highly controlled environment perfectly set up to get the max. Put them in a battlezone or less played stf and they probably won't be as effective.
10k is fine for most content and the average player won't be doing more than 20k anyway. My highest score ever was 24k but nornally I'm around 15k and I have no intention of getting any better, now I just perfect my build for survivability and better timings of abilities.
Well I love my build right now and If I am average I have nothing to worry about. I focused on a build that is tanky and can offer support.
Which is perfectly fine, hybrid builds always sacrifice in specialty but gain in versatility. It's my preferred way of building as well - unfortunately, STO doesn't provide much need for versatility but really requires damage specialists all the way - for instance, take a look at a mission like "The Battle for Korfez". There is a semi-randomized segment which can offer a sequence requiring the players to protect allied troop transports - an escort mission if you will. Protect transports from point A to point B agains Vaadwaur mobs. While in theory damage dealers that fight the enemies, tanks that draw fire and support builds that heal teammates and transports have a place in this mission, reality sadly shows that only damage dealers are required because the mobs deal so much damage to the transports that supporting them is not an option - you can't possibly heal and buff against the amount of damage the Vaadwaur throw at them, even if the whole team would be made up of support builds. You cannot tank the aggro as there are too many enemy mobs so the only way tow in this is to dispose of them as quickly as possible - support builds need not apply
However, you learned the most important lesson and I wanted to point out that "DPS" is not a way to determine wether someone is "good" or "bad" at the game, it's a sport played by some and unfortunately something Cryptic made a priority to cater to because they lost track of the power creep they introduced into the game.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I am better at the DPS people in some way. If you look at it differently.
When doing huge Borg combat things etc, sure they lash out more damage and might destroy a Borg cube in the blink of an eye. Unlike me.
But I look at it this way, I never died ONCE. Compared to they who died 2-3 times. So that is more realistic, also combat is more challenging and it needs more planning on how to approach enemies and how to run your attack.
Compared to the approach Cube's, open fire. They all blow up.
Rofl.
Take my signature for example, defeating a Klingon vessel of that class takes some time and makes for a fun space battle. Compared to just doing full impulse over to it and blowing it up in 1 or 2 shots. ^^
Comments
Off the top of my head things that I've nearly one-shot a cube with on my builds:
Quantum Destabilizing Beam
Isokinetic Cannon
Destabilized Resonance Beam
Phantom Phaser Lance
Enhanced Bio-photon High Yield
Not all beams admitedly but there's definitely a lot of extremely powerful one-shot attacks out there. And most of those (bar the phaser lance) can be slotted onto any ship, in fact with a science ship they are probably more deadly!
I hate to say it, but the average player doesn't even come anywhere close to that amount!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Like hell the average player hits 80-90k. That's DPS League high end level. Average is more around 7-10k.
I was jumping around 10-11k.
Than why are you quoting me on it, I just said the average player doesn't see anywhere near 80-90k!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Those aren't average players!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
What the... :S Then the average player only gets 10-11.. So I'm.. Average then? Not "horribly bad"
Average ranges from anywhere between 1k-20k average, and I certainly have enough parses to prove that on any given day!
You would be lucky to find someone running an everyday PUG, pushing beyond 30k-40k nominal, but it does happen rarely!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Heh some luck then indeed, usually the average for pug is 10-15k, more often then not on the lower end of that.
You sure you didn't play with guys from DPS or Dentals maybe? Can't remember last time I saw four Feds in the same pug team with so high average damage... or nearly anyway.
I thought 80-90 K was average seeing how quickly people blow stuff up sometimes.. :S I'm just so confused v.v
I can barely manage average myself, and I like it that way.
There are many, many more players like you and I out there than there are of players who can dish out 80k DPS.
There are tons of players in this game, and tons of fleets, so you have a plethora of people & fleets to chose from!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Not trying to confuse you further, but "quickly blowing stuff up" doesn't necessarily comes from high sustained damage, usually it comes from burst. My fastest "blowing stuff up" ship is my tac pilot, it has DHCs and DBB, it shred single targets into pieces in seconds (it's my PvP go-to ship atm), but it barely pushes more then 20k-ish overall (and I have to really try, if I slack a little, it falls down very fast), meaning it's one of my lower performing ships overall.
And yeah, 90k ISA without a nanny is high indeed. Not average players, more like high end dpsers.
Now, someone dealing 90k+ DPS obviously knows how to synergize the items and they will on average deal more damage in every content in the game, but the highest numbers stem from being able to play ISA blind because players that are around longer play the same map for five years now. They use a memorized pattern of movement, a "coreography" if you will to be at a set time at a set point in the map, activating a set of abilities that will hit as many targets as possible. BFAW right above the generator in ISA hits all generators, all nodes, the gate and all spheres hovering around. That means they deal 10 times the damage they'd deal on a single target because the abilitiy doesn't deal less damage per target as an AoE is supposed to be but it deals full damage to every target. They also deal damage to invulnerable targets - that doesn't contribute to the mission, but it is parsed in the combatlog reader and increases "DPS". They have a premade team with synergized buffs and superior communication (voice chat, giving commands when to activate which buff for the team for optimal effects). A ISA run is a run under "lab conditions" so to speak.
What you have to understand is that "DPSing" is a sport playing systems and tricking the parser. The combatlog reader is a non-supported third party tool, Cryptic/STO doesn't even measure how much DPS you deal. Some missions see what amount of total damage and healing you dealt to award a reward, though.
To deal lots of damage you just have to know what abilities synergize well and how to boost them. For instance, I modified my Nebula in lights of this thread to use the QDB from the sunrise set, tachyon beam and the resonance beam paired with tyken's rift as a means of attack. I fire all these abilities together. I have a secondary deflector adding radiation damage to all of them. I have embassy consoles that add a chance of plasma damage to all of them. I activate emergency power to auxilliary before, I pop a particle battery before, I might activate the romulan rep ability before, I have the delta ordnance weapon set slotted to increase radiation damage etc, I have means of reducing cooldowns to have those abilities available sooner...
One attack like that is devestating. But it takes a while to recover, the QDB has a two minute cooldown, during that time I'm at reduced capacity. But single targets can be "one-shotted" or take massive damage that way, especially with shields down. For example if I'd slot a doff with a chance to disable a shield facing with tachyon beam or energy syphon, I'd hit opportunity shots on bare hull increasing damage furher. But these spike attacks lead to a lower DPS than having a constant back-to-back hail of BFAW boosted in a similiar way.
Still, despite that I was able to hit over 20k "DPS" on a pug ISA run - I don't reach 90k there for a number of rasons, for example because the map is "optimized" for those BFAW tricks with the immovable, invulnerable targets that are always at the same position, I'm a sci captain lacking attack pattern alpha and so on. But believe me that I can deal massive damage to advanced or maybe even elite targets if the opportunity arises.
Don't hurt your head over DPSing and elitist attitudes. You can do very well on your own with a little bit of research.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
If you go into ISA and sit in the right place you can BFAW half the map but most of the targets are invulnerable so it means nothing to some degree.
I always maintain there's actual measured DPS and then there's "effective" DPS which us that damage that actually helps the team. No use doing 100k DPS if most of its not helping the team and only half of it is hitting targets you are supposed to.
And remember just because someone says they can do high DPS in a single controlled run of ISA doesn't mean they will do the same in every other map. For most people their top DPS score is based on a highly controlled environment perfectly set up to get the max. Put them in a battlezone or less played stf and they probably won't be as effective.
10k is fine for most content and the average player won't be doing more than 20k anyway.
My highest score ever was 24k but nornally I'm around 15k and I have no intention of getting any better, now I just perfect my build for survivability and better timings of abilities.
Which is perfectly fine, hybrid builds always sacrifice in specialty but gain in versatility. It's my preferred way of building as well - unfortunately, STO doesn't provide much need for versatility but really requires damage specialists all the way - for instance, take a look at a mission like "The Battle for Korfez". There is a semi-randomized segment which can offer a sequence requiring the players to protect allied troop transports - an escort mission if you will. Protect transports from point A to point B agains Vaadwaur mobs. While in theory damage dealers that fight the enemies, tanks that draw fire and support builds that heal teammates and transports have a place in this mission, reality sadly shows that only damage dealers are required because the mobs deal so much damage to the transports that supporting them is not an option - you can't possibly heal and buff against the amount of damage the Vaadwaur throw at them, even if the whole team would be made up of support builds. You cannot tank the aggro as there are too many enemy mobs so the only way tow in this is to dispose of them as quickly as possible - support builds need not apply
However, you learned the most important lesson and I wanted to point out that "DPS" is not a way to determine wether someone is "good" or "bad" at the game, it's a sport played by some and unfortunately something Cryptic made a priority to cater to because they lost track of the power creep they introduced into the game.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
When doing huge Borg combat things etc, sure they lash out more damage and might destroy a Borg cube in the blink of an eye. Unlike me.
But I look at it this way, I never died ONCE. Compared to they who died 2-3 times. So that is more realistic, also combat is more challenging and it needs more planning on how to approach enemies and how to run your attack.
Compared to the approach Cube's, open fire. They all blow up.
Rofl.
Take my signature for example, defeating a Klingon vessel of that class takes some time and makes for a fun space battle. Compared to just doing full impulse over to it and blowing it up in 1 or 2 shots. ^^